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Maveric78f
12-03-2006, 12:55 PM
I did not want to post it at first because it looks very naive and I fear that it would be misunderstood but finally I met some people that urge me post it there.

It's a stompy deck, a bit like the faerie or angel one except that it's not white or blue but green with a green splash.

First the list :

// Lands (19)
4 [B] Savannah
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [MR] Plains (3)
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [9E] Forest (1)
2 [RAV] Temple Garden

// Creatures (29)
3 [FD] Eternal Witness
4 [NE] Blastoderm
4 [RAV] Loxodon Hierarch
4 [ON] Ravenous Baloth
4 [SC] Krosan Warchief
3 [DIS] Indrik Stomphowler
3 [NE] Skyshroud Ridgeback
4 [5E] Birds of Paradise

// Spells (12)
4 [TE] Eladamri's Vineyard
4 [A] Swords to Plowshares
2 [MR] Chalice of the Void
2 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice

// Sideboard (15)
SB: 2 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 [MR] Rule of Law
SB: 4 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 [DIS] Condemn

It's mostly beast-creature oriented in order to get benefit of the warchiefs and the baloths that are real bombs. The only creatures that I play and that are not beasts are incredible tools :
- eternal witness : only*3 because its cost is quite problematic and I have often to pay 3 life to play it (2 life for the ancient tomb + 1 life for the mana burn of the ancient tomb)
- loxodon hierarch : doesn't need to be a beast and sacrificed to have a 4 life gain which is very important in such a suicide deck.
- birds of paradise : mana fixer

The curve is quite strange and I'll explain it :
0 : ___________________ (19)
1 : _______________ (15)
2 : (0)
3 : _________ (9)
4 : ____________ (12)
5 : ___ (3)
XX : __ (2)

Actually the chalice is almost always paid for 2 counters. It's the best chalice in the format :
- Life from the Loam
- Reset and diggers (even if I know that chalice@1 is usually better against high tide)
- against all blue based control decks : counterspells
- fish : dark confidant, serra avenger, jitte, meddling mage, jotun grunt, ...
- life : daru, fling, ...
- threshold : counterspells, werewolf (mongoose is not a threat for the deck), fire/ice, meddling mage, ...
- aluren : harpie, walls, ...
- deadguy : hymn to tourach, nantuko shade, dark confidant, sink hole

However against some decks you may prefer run chalice@X :
- IGGy pop : chalice@0 then @1. Then kill him.
- Faerie Stompy : chalice@3 is a real pleasure hehe.
- Burn : chalice@1 then @2.

Now let's see how the deck runs :
I'll relate a match I did against deadguy ale for you to understand :
T1 :
I play birds, I pass
He plays : DR, duress, I reveal : no non-land, non-creature card in hand. Then he puts DC on the table.
T2 :
I play Ancient Tomb + Blastoderm (-2)
He reveals vindicate (-3) and plays nantuko shade
T3 :
I swing for 5, I play savannah + ravenous baloth + skyshroud ridgeback (-2)
He reveals confidant (-2) fetches (-1) then plays vindicate on my baloth. I sac in response to gain 4 life.
T4 :
I swing for only 2 because he blocks my blastoderm with confidant. I play blastoderm. (-2)
He conceides (he dies at my next turn)

That's a pretty good start for me but it was also for the opponent. Only an hymn was missing... But at the end of the game a witness plus a warchief was still in my hand.

I have several ways to get 4 manas for my creatures on turn 2 :
birds + ancient tomb
just vineyard
It's very rare that I can't play a 4CC creature on turn 3 (it means no birds, no vineyard and no ancient tomb). Moreover the warchief is a good curve modeller.
That's why I'm making very explosive starts with very difficult to deal with creatures.

My positive matchups :
Deadguy ale : very positive : it can't do anything with vineyard and it's a pleasure to look at him losing on burns from them. Moreover my creatures are all must-vindicate. It has no answer to blastoderm moreover. My swords keeps the bords of shades and hyppies that are the biggests threats. I don't even side against deadguy ale. Be careful of persecute though...

Faerie Stompy : I run a lot of anti-artefacts MD and my creatures are better than his ones, my creature removals too. Never play a vineyard against faery stompy he'll know better than you how to use them. It's a favorable matchup. The main point is not to give him too much mana because you're going to regret it.
Side : -3 Skyshroud Ridgeback, -1 chalice (keep 1 to play it @3 if you ever draw it), +2 condemn, +2 krosan grip

43-lands : MD you can steal a game with a good start and blastoderm going through mazes. Or with an early chalice@2. However it's very difficult MD. Afterside, it's just to easy...
Side : -3 Skyshroud Ridgeback, -2 SoFI, -1 vineyard, +4 tormod's crypt, +2 chalice of the void

Burn : As soon as you can play chalice@1. Play your life creatures. Once baloth is in play it's almost GG. Anticipate your' opponent's side with krosan grip and explosives. The enchantement preventing the players from graining life is the only threat of your opponent.
Side : -3 skyshroud, -4 STP, +2 CotV, +2 krosan grip, +2 explosives

My Negative matchups :
Gobs : I don't get why but I always feel to have bad starts against gobs. I have 7 answer to lackey on turn 1 MD and 9 after SB. I play very strong creatures but I can't win the race.
Side : -2 CotV, +2 condemn

My even/not decided matchups :
- Hanni Fish : the serra avenger and the mother or Rune are you worst enemies. Try to break out the Jitte and to resolve a chalice@2 and you'll earn your game.
Side : -3 Shyshroud Ridgeback, -2 ??? (depends on what you've seen) +2 condemn, +2 EE, +1 Chalice

Cavius The Great
12-03-2006, 02:38 PM
I have a Green Stompy deck that uses Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors and Eladamri's Vineyard, but it's totally different from your build. I might make a thread on it once I get the chance.

Mirrislegend
12-03-2006, 08:24 PM
I helped Mav test this deck a little bit. It packs sacrifices some of the consistency of Faerie Stompy for ridiculous power. So when Faerie Stompy is ahead, but sometimes loses, this deck will take it. However, Faerie Stompy has an advantage thanks to its counterspells and earlier beats. However, I believe this deck has the potential to match Faerie Stompy. Along a similar note to this deck's unusualities, do not rag on Krosan Warchief, it fits in this deck and works wonders.


Some things that jump at me from the decklist:

2x Temple Garden is not needed. Drop 1. It's there just in case you really, desperately need another source of both G and W mana, but you never really want to draw it.

Skyshroud Ridgeback? Maybe as an answer for lackey, but otherwise... yuck!

BoP vs Llanowar Elves: In a deck where the second color is simply a splash, BoP doesnt seem necessary for color fixing purposes. And evasion does NOT outweigh Llanowar's lackey stopping ability

I think 3x Indrik Stomphowler is too many for the MD. Since the destruction is not optional, he's only useful when there's something to hit. Otherwise he's a dead card in your hand.

Needs more Chalice. Chalice is abso-fucking-lutely riiiiiiiiiiiidonculous good. Add at least 1 more.

How often does Vineyard backfire? I've experienced its power (against me :cry: ) first hand, and I do believe it belongs in the deck. However, you are, indeed, feeding your opponent 2 mana per turn. Consider dropping 1, maybe?

Lastly, consider adding Jitte. After all, tis a deck that swings with creatures.


I know it sounds like I'm nitpicking, but really I'm just trying to hit the details that make or break a relatively decent deck. Best of luck Mav

Maveric78f
12-04-2006, 06:31 AM
Calvius : I'm interested in your list. Please post it nad we'll try to make the pros and cons of our lists. About City of traitor : this is absolutely not needed in my list because I often need only 1 colorless mana : witness and most of the beasts once warchief is on the board. Don't misread, warchief is very good, because of regeneration ability and to speed up the pace of the deck.

Mirrislegend :
First, notice that it's not the deck we've been playtesting. There are a couple of changes. Something like MD :
-4 wall of roots
-2 umezawa's jitte
-2 chalice
-1 witness
+1 STP
+2 SoFI
+4 BoP
+1 loxodon
+1 blastoderm

I did that because I was pissed off by chalicing my own cards, so that I decided not to chalice@1 blindly and to be able to chalice@2 blindly. I still can afford a chalice@1 because it only prevents me from playing early game cards and the STP.

Now about your remarks :

2x Temple Garden is not needed. Drop 1. It's there just in case you really, desperately need another source of both G and W mana, but you never really want to draw it.

I agree with you. I never get color screwed. I have not tried to play only 1 temple garden though but I think it would be ok. Actually it's not such a big deal.


Skyshroud Ridgeback? Maybe as an answer for lackey, but otherwise... yuck!

Ridgeback is very good answer to lackey. It covers my back brilliantly. Neither fanatic nor gempalm can get rid of him in early game. Moreover it's a beast that gives me often 4 life before going to graveyard. However, I have to admit that it's not enough to win the gob matchup. I'm looking for a better solution. What do you think of defense of the heart (in side of course) with 1 or 2 Phantom Nishoba in library, maybe 1 MD ?


BoP vs Llanowar Elves: In a deck where the second color is simply a splash, BoP doesnt seem necessary for color fixing purposes. And evasion does NOT outweigh Llanowar's lackey stopping ability

Actually I'm considering to remove vineyard (pissed off to give the victory to the opponent too) for another solution. I'm considering elves and wild growth or the only forest/enchantment to replace it. About the birds, I'm completely fan of them, they are the only ones to take plainly advantage from the SoFI, because none of my beasts have trample. I'm also considering to change the SoFI by rancors and give trample to my beasts.


I think 3x Indrik Stomphowler is too many for the MD. Since the destruction is not optional, he's only useful when there's something to hit. Otherwise he's a dead card in your hand.

I do not agree at all with that. Once I can play indrik, I can break my vineyards, and I don't play so many artefacts/enchantments... Moreover, if I come to play rancor and remove vineyard for elves, I will probably include a fourth indrik MD because it's such a card advantage : artefact or enchantment + 4/4 creature + 4 life when it dies (opponent's STP or baloth).


Needs more Chalice. Chalice is abso-fucking-lutely riiiiiiiiiiiidonculous good. Add at least 1 more.

Chalice is good but I don't want a hand full of chalices. That's why I play 2 of them. Moreover that deck is a tribal deck so that I can't cut too many slots of beasts.


How often does Vineyard backfire? I've experienced its power (against me ) first hand, and I do believe it belongs in the deck. However, you are, indeed, feeding your opponent 2 mana per turn. Consider dropping 1, maybe?

Vineyard can be insanely good : burning the opponent and helping you developping and insanely bad : helping opponent hardcasting his darksteel colossus (it happened once). I still don't know what to think. I have to test without to see if I can make as explosive starts as I used to.


Lastly, consider adding Jitte. After all, tis a deck that swings with creatures.

Jitte is 2CC so I have to decide between the 1 and 3CC solutions. For the moment I found :
- rancor
- SoFI and SoLS
- Loxodon warhammer
- O-naginata
- nothing

I think that rancor may be the best.

In conclusion, I may try :
MD
-4 BoP
-4 vineyard
+4 llanowar
+4 fyndhorn
-2 SoFI
-3 Ridgeback
+4 rancor
+1 stomphowler
-1 hierarch
+1 nishoba

SB :
-2 condemn
-1 crypt
-0/1 ??
+3/4 defense of the heart

Cavius The Great
12-04-2006, 10:50 AM
I think 3x Indrik Stomphowler is too many for the MD. Since the destruction is not optional, he's only useful when there's something to hit. Otherwise he's a dead card in your hand.

Indrik Stomphowler is never a dead draw for him since he's running Vineyards. I play Stomphowler in my build and I'm basically able to get rid of Vineyards when they basically overstayed their welcome anyways. It's also a very good way to avoid mana burn in the following turns.


Calvius : I'm interested in your list. Please post it nad we'll try to make the pros and cons of our lists.

I'm not sure if I want to post it. The reason being both decks are very different. I run mostly artifact creatures and just use Vineyards, Cities, Tombs and equipment. It's a more "balls to the wall aggro" deck so to speak, and like I said, I don't think it would make relevent discussion since both decks are very different. I will make a thread on it once I get around to it, so be on the lookout for that.

Blair Phoenix
12-04-2006, 08:48 PM
I have a G/W aggro deck that had a very similar creature base in its initial conception(its changed a lot lol), and from experience I have to say that I don't think such a rocky mana base can support 15 4+ casting cost creatures even with Eladamri's Vineyard. Also, I could see lots of hands where you are stuck with your earliest creature being played on turn 3, which isn't really all that good for this format. Am I wrong?

Mirrislegend
12-04-2006, 10:49 PM
I tried whipping up my own version of this deck, and I've thus gained a bit of insight into it. This deck has a fundamental flaw in its dependance on the 4cc slot. The whole platform of this deck is the idea of accelerating out dudes like Faerie Stompy. However, Faerie Stompy basically curves out at 3cc. And its always in the format of 3 colorless mana or 2 colorless and 1 colored. Thus, with any single piece of acceleration, and any single source of blue mana, Faerie Stompy can drop 3cc items turn 2, at the latest. This deck however is stuck at 4cc. Thats not so much the issue as that the 4 mana are in the form of 2 colorless and 2 colored mana. And that is IMPOSSIBLE to hit by turn 2, short of 2 pieces of acceleration. And besides Tombs and Chrome Moxes, there is no other effective acceleration: Vineyard accelerates your opponent, and elves have dissynergy with Chalice of the Void (which, by the way, is the entire reason to play Faerie-Stompy-esque decks).

So, despite my love of Blastoderm, StP, Chalice of the Void, and Loxodon Hierarch all in one deck, I have to declare that I do not believe this is the way to do it.

Maveric78f
12-05-2006, 04:39 AM
chalice is almost never played@1 : only @0 or @2. That's the reason why I play only 2 of them : I don't need it in early game.

With vineyard, you can belive me, I very often get a 4/4 on turn2 (I'd say 50% of the times) and allways get it on turn3. And don't forget that the creatures have a kind of time walk effect by giving me 4 lifes.

If I compare it to faerie stompy :
+++ :
- doesn't need equipments
- good board sweepers (STP and stomphowler)
- rancor
- life gain (gives tempo)
- chalice@2 is no loss (faerie loses 4*jitte + 4*cloud of faeries + ?*sea sprite)
- blastoderm
- regeneration of the warchief/hierarch
- witness

--- :
- no trinket mage => no toolbox
- no drawer
- no FoW
- no evasion except with rancor
- no protection from red
- chalice@1 is almost no loss (only pithing)

I compare it with faerie stompy but finally the decks are really different.

Eldariel
12-05-2006, 06:48 AM
chalice is almost never played@1 : only @0 or @2. That's the reason why I play only 2 of them : I don't need it in early game.

With vineyard, you can belive me, I very often get a 4/4 on turn2 (I'd say 50% of the times) and allways get it on turn3. And don't forget that the creatures have a kind of time walk effect by giving me 4 lifes.

If I compare it to faerie stompy :
+++ :
- doesn't need equipments
- good board sweepers (STP and stomphowler)
- rancor
- life gain (gives tempo)
- chalice@2 is no loss (faerie loses 4*jitte + 4*cloud of faeries + ?*sea sprite)
- blastoderm
- regeneration of the warchief/hierarch
- witness

--- :
- no trinket mage => no toolbox
- no drawer
- no FoW
- no evasion except with rancor
- no protection from red
- chalice@1 is almost no loss (only pithing)

I compare it with faerie stompy but finally the decks are really different.

Essentially, it boils down to FS having a far better combo-MU with FoWs and a full set of 7 Chalices, as well as Sea Drake-induced clock (and a lower manacurve to get by with less mana; it seems like if you're on the draw and your opponent plays a Chalice at 1, you'll never have enough mana to cast your 4-drops with just 19 lands). This seems to be better off vs. most aggro-decks (but has very much difficulty dropping a Chalice at 1 on turn 1, making the card essentially dead against decks like Goblins, while on the play, it's an allstar in FS), but the lack of evasion I'd imagine hurts, as all your damage can be blocked, so you'll have serious trouble getting past a wall of 1/1s. Also, while you run less lands than FS, you run more manacards in Vineyards and BoPs, which combined with the lack of card filtering makes the deck topdeck worse.

Oh, and FS doesn't really lose Cloud of Faeries to Chalice at 2. Whenever you play Chalice at 2, you can first play all the Clouds with no mana loss whatsoever and any Clouds you draw after that, you'll be happy to cycle anyways. Jitte and Sea Sprites are losses though (and Looter il-Kor in some newer builds).


But yea, the fact remains that FS is engineered to fight the whole field, while this is specifically an anti-aggro deck (and perhaps control-killer too, I can see Witnesses being very beneficial).

Maveric78f
12-05-2006, 07:54 AM
Essentially, it boils down to FS having a far better combo-MU with FoWs and a full set of 7 Chalices, as well as Sea Drake-induced clock (and a lower manacurve to get by with less mana; it seems like if you're on the draw and your opponent plays a Chalice at 1, you'll never have enough mana to cast your 4-drops with just 19 lands).

That's a bit radical. A first turn Chalice@1 hurts a lot the deck that's completely true because it's at least a time walk for the opponent. But with 19 lands, I can regularly have 3 lands at my third turn (I would have drawn 10 cards of my deck, it means in average 1/6 of my lands, that means a bit more than 3). With 3 lands, I just need 1 tomb, or 1 warchief to be able to play my guys. Moreover a first turn chalice is still rare even for decks like FS that play 4 of them preboard and very often side them out after the first game because they see that I play chalice too or because they are concerned more by my creatures than my mana boosts. Anyway, I've tested the matchup agaisnt FS and it's almost a bye for me because my creatures are too strong for FS and I have strong removal.


This seems to be better off vs. most aggro-decks (but has very much difficulty dropping a Chalice at 1 on turn 1, making the card essentially dead against decks like Goblins, while on the play, it's an allstar in FS), but the lack of evasion I'd imagine hurts, as all your damage can be blocked, so you'll have serious trouble getting past a wall of 1/1s.

I almost NEVER play chalice@1. That's not the goal and that's why I play only 2 of them MD. Chalice is here to be played@2 or @3.


Also, while you run less lands than FS, you run more manacards in Vineyards and BoPs, which combined with the lack of card filtering makes the deck topdeck worse.

Do I really run less lands than FS ??? The lists I see run between 17 and 19 lands. Don't forget that Chrome Mox makes some Card Disadvantage that I don't face. The bad topdeck is not really a problem as most of my hand gets down very slowly and my creatures are difficult to handle.


Oh, and FS doesn't really lose Cloud of Faeries to Chalice at 2. Whenever you play Chalice at 2, you can first play all the Clouds with no mana loss whatsoever and any Clouds you draw after that, you'll be happy to cycle anyways. Jitte and Sea Sprites are losses though (and Looter il-Kor in some newer builds).

Right for the cloud. But the loss of the jitte is still of big harm.


But yea, the fact remains that FS is engineered to fight the whole field, while this is specifically an anti-aggro deck (and perhaps control-killer too, I can see Witnesses being very beneficial).

I don't agree with that. chalice@2 hurts all the metagame except combo. Against combo (depending which of course), chalice @0 or @1 is so good that I can accept losing my future mana boosts and my STP (that are often useless moreover). I have also rule of law in SB. I'm not sure that's enough to fight combo but that's a good start for a deck goldfishing kills @ turn 5.

I consider that the best chalice in the metagame is @2. All decks are severely hurt by it. I'm not going to make the tour but the core cards of every deck are 2CC, except for gob. Even FS may be disappointed by it.

I'm going to repeat. Yes my main concern is the gob matchup because it's so poor... I could play tivadar's crusade but it's WW and I can't afford it against a mana disruptal deck. I could have absolute law in side. I could play defense of the heart + phantom nishoba, but that may be a bit late (1 turn to sac + 1 turn to attack with it). I have to test.

Blair Phoenix
12-05-2006, 08:54 AM
chalice is almost never played@1 : only @0 or @2. That's the reason why I play only 2 of them : I don't need it in early game.

With vineyard, you can belive me, I very often get a 4/4 on turn2 (I'd say 50% of the times) and allways get it on turn3. And don't forget that the creatures have a kind of time walk effect by giving me 4 lifes.



To actually get a 4 casting cost creature on turn 2, you need to have either Ancient Tomb or an vineyard in your opening hand/draw, and I just can't see that happening 50% of the time, and again, a turn 3 beater in this format is just too slow

Mirrislegend
12-05-2006, 10:59 AM
chalice is almost never played@1 : only @0 or @2.

Thats not how chalice should be played then. Chalice at 1 hurts every single deck. EVERY SINGLE ONE. Some less (FS) than others (Thresh). But the point remains that Chalice @ 1 is the reason to play Chalice!

Maveric78f
12-05-2006, 11:24 AM
To actually get a 4 casting cost creature on turn 2, you need to have either Ancient Tomb or an vineyard in your opening hand/draw, and I just can't see that happening 50% of the time, and again, a turn 3 beater in this format is just too slow

For an easier and approximative calculation, I need 1 card from eight in my oppening hand. The probability is :
1-C(7,52)/C(7,60)
= 1 - 52!/(7!45!) * (7!53!)/60!
= 1 - (52!53!)/(45!60!)
= 65,36%

Here you are !

If you want to see make an effort and wear your night glasses off. 8)

Mirrislegend : I don't agree with that. The chalice@1 is stronger than the chalice@2 because it can me reliably played at first turn before coutnerspells show, but chalice@2 is far more powerful. I'm testing an astral/life/rift playing chalice only for 0 or 1, and I find it less effective. You could look at the different archetypes and you would notice that the real threats are at 2 (or more) CC. That's sure that almost all deck need a first turn, that's why all decks are playing 1CC spells and that's why all the decks are slowed down, but talking about the real threats. At 1CC, except for combo decks, I can't see a single one.

Blair Phoenix
12-05-2006, 05:16 PM
For an easier and approximative calculation, I need 1 card from eight in my oppening hand. The probability is :
1-C(7,52)/C(7,60)
= 1 - 52!/(7!45!) * (7!53!)/60!
= 1 - (52!53!)/(45!60!)
= 65,36%

Here you are !

If you want to see make an effort and wear your night glasses off. 8)

Mirrislegend : I don't agree with that. The chalice@1 is stronger than the chalice@2 because it can me reliably played at first turn before coutnerspells show, but chalice@2 is far more powerful. I'm testing an astral/life/rift playing chalice only for 0 or 1, and I find it less effective. You could look at the different archetypes and you would notice that the real threats are at 2 (or more) CC. That's sure that almost all deck need a first turn, that's why all decks are playing 1CC spells and that's why all the decks are slowed down, but talking about the real threats. At 1CC, except for combo decks, I can't see a single one.

Hm. Still though, thats 44.64% of the time that you don't have a turn 2 creature. Not THAT much, but still a substantial amount of times that could be problamatic

Cavius The Great
12-05-2006, 05:20 PM
If you want to see make an effort and wear your night glasses off. 8)

Is that what they call sunglasses in France? :tongue:

Maveric78f
12-05-2006, 06:23 PM
Hm. Still though, thats 44.64% of the time that you don't have a turn 2 creature. Not THAT much, but still a substantial amount of times that could be problamatic

Damn, you should review a bit your mathematics lessons. 100 - 65,36 = 34,64%

And for myself, go back to my english lessons ;-)

Blair Phoenix
12-05-2006, 07:40 PM
Damn, you should review a bit your mathematics lessons. 100 - 65,36 = 34,64%

And for myself, go back to my english lessons ;-)

ah yes, sorry about that XD. I suck at math when I'm rushing it. I had to go somewhere when I posted, so I did a quick calculation, but didn't think it all the way through.

Yamaelle
12-05-2006, 08:00 PM
I really like tribal decks, and I also enjoy the countless Stompy variants.
But I wanted to mention a couple things, as this deck is compared to Faerie Stompy (and it makes sense to make it)

Chalice played at 2 does not generate dead cards. As Eldariel indicated, the faeries cycle. The Jittes are discarded to Thirst for Knowledge (okay, you might not have a Thirst in hand at the moment you play chalice=2, but if you have Jitte, you would play it before very often). As for the Sea Sprites, I believe most have them in SB, with the Weatherseed faeries MD.

Playing 4 Tombs + 4 Cities + 4 Mox allows many possibilities of 1st turn chalices. And I almost NEVER side them out ( except in the mirror, or on very rare occasions). Chalice=2 hurts a lot of deck. But I really believe Chalice=1 is the most harmful one, therefore somehow the reason to play it.

As for the deck itself, I would too play Llanowar elves instead of Bird, though it is true you don't have that much evasion for the SOFIs. As for the MU against Gob, I believe ports +wastes are a pain in the ass, right? That is also why I would drop the Temple Gardens.

Otherwise, good luck, and see you someday for the Faerie MU :wink:
(I just hope you won't chalice for 3, because without Explosives, it is gg for sure)...

Maveric78f
12-06-2006, 03:58 AM
I can't play elves over birds and abandon temple garden too because the white mana, even if it's only a splash, guarantees the viability of the deck.

The problem with gob is that they swarm me, and usually they succeed in making me block the pilly so that both creatures will die and I'll take the 4/5 dmg aside with no card card advantage. The problem is also that my turn1 manas (elves or birds) are killed very fast and yes the port/waste is hurting. And if I play vineyard, I'm helping too much the gob player.

I tried a bit the defense of the heart issue : that's really not efficient. I'll try absolute law and/or elephant grass.

About the SoFI/rancor, rancor looks really superior, because trample is what I need and because I don't need evasion to make it work.

I tried also to play elves*8 instead of birds*4 + vineyard*4. Well I was not convinced, vineyard gives the turn 2 beast/chalice@2 with a lot of guarantee. And 2 elves takes a pyroclasm or a fire/ice too easily. So I think that I'll keep the vineyards.

About the chalice@1 the strength is that it is a turn1 play. I'm really convinced in it in late game chalice@2 is almost always better.

Edit : And hailstorm also can be tried in SB. It's a green monoside wrath against gobs.