[Deck] GW Aggro Loam-A-Geddon

[CynicalSquirrel]

This deck was an idea I got while looking through the original Time Spiral spoiler. I was looking for something that popped out in the kind of decks I like to play, and after a lot of searching I found it: Flagstones of Trokair. It seemed so abusable, and so easy to just blend into a normal deck that I wanted to play it somewhere. And since I noticed the New and Developmental forum had a distinct lack of Life from the Loam based decks, I decided to post this:

// Lands
4 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Plains
2 Forest
2 Secluded Steppe
3 Tranquil Thicket
4 Savannah
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
3 Nantuko Monastery

// Creatures
4 Terravore
4 Werebear
4 Vinelasher Kudzu
2 Jotun Grunt

// Spells
4 Life from the Loam
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Armageddon
3 Ravages of War
4 Exploration

// Sideboard
SB: 2 Jotun Grunt
SB: 3 Solitary Confinement
SB: 2 Nomad Stadium
SB: 4 Naturalize
SB: 4 Pithing Needle

Despite the low creature count, this is a very aggro style deck. The plan is extremely straight forward: establish some early board control and drop an Armageddon/Ravages of War. The hope is that with Terravore, Werebear, and Kudzu, an early Armageddon will pretty much put the opponent on a 2-3 turn clock, which they probably won't be able to recover from. Werebear along with Flagstones of Trokair and Exploration can make for some hilariously one sided Armageddons, and Terravore and Kudzu can both become massive beatsticks very early in the game. Nantuko Monastery can also create some ground control after an Armageddon, and be recurred via Loam.

All I've been able to do so far is some goldfishing, but it seems extremely consistent thanks to effectively running 6 Armageddons, along with the Loam cycling land/draw engine. I can see the deck having a lot of success against control, combo, and slower aggro, but I'm worried about the matchup against Goblins and faster aggro, which is why I sideboarded Nomad Stadium and Solitary Confinement.

Anyways, any help is appreciated. I'll try to get testing results up soon.

[aisman132000]

i've seen a deck similar to this from a japanese side event or something except it also ran solitary confinement maindeck and could just played behind that if it was required. The strategy seems sound you know ernham geddon style. I'm sure this destroys aggro as all of your guys are huge and i love nantucko monastary. one question though, what is your combo matchup like? can you clock fast enough? I know you have armegeddon x6 but still won't they just go off in response? It doesn't seem like that problem is adressed in the sb or md. I guess solitary confinement, but if that is your answer you might be better off running it md instead of sb. maybe drop two geddons for two confinements and then rule of law in the sb? I don't know just asking.

[freakish777]

Trinisphere seems like it'd be a good addition (after Geddon with Vore down they scoop as opposed to ripping Swords/Plains). Additionally I'm tempted to say I'd run Living Wish to get access to:

Cycling Land on demand.
Terravore more consistently.
Wasteland from the board (go with Loam)
Tabernacle from the board ("drop Geddon, post resolution, drop Tabernacle, Wrath your team?").
Bosejui from the board (against FoW).

[MasterBlaster]

Jotun Grunt and Terravore/Werebear seems to be a real bad combo to me.

I would suggest that you sideboard the Grunts.

[Atwa]

Take a ook at Hugo van Dijke's list of this deck. It won both the Dutch Nationals and the side event at Worlds.

There is a tournament resport somewhere on this site (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4524), here is the list:

The Dutch Connection’s ‘TerraGeddon’

// Creatures
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Werebear
4 Terravore
4 Wild Mongrel
3 Eternal Witness
1 Genesis

// Spells
4 Armageddon
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Life from the Loam
3 Solitary Confinement

// Lands
4 Tranquil Thicket
2 Secluded Steppe
1 Nantuko Monastery
3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
3 Forest
1 Plains
4 Savannah
3 Wooded Foothills

// Sideboard
4 Tivadar’s Crusade
4 Null Rod
3 Krosan Grip
2 Loxodon Hierarch
2 Last Breath

There is already a tread on TMD, where hugo has made some changes to the list (mostly sideboard to improve a better combo matchup). I tested the deck a lot, since I lost to it the first round of the Dutch Nationals, and the list feels very optimal.

[CynicalSquirrel]

Thanks for the list/link. I knew I couldn't be the only one who thought of this, and it's nice to see an optimal list to try out.

I'm glad I was at least somewhat in the ballpark on it though, it would have been kind of lame if I was running like 30 different cards.

[Atwa]

My first tread I've ever opened on the source was a Terravore deck, so I know what you mean.

Me list was way more casual, and I was way more cards off than you are, but that was before the release of ravnica, so I never heard of this card ´life from the loam´. The deck is really a blast to play, and it is pretty powerfull too.

[Plank]

Adding Mox Diamonds would probably rock some ass for this deck. I'd suggest Chrome Mox too, or Talismen / Signets? Could probablyd drop some lands for the Moxs, 28 is... up there.

[Atwa]

Adding Mox Diamonds would probably rock some ass for this deck. I'd suggest Chrome Mox too, or Talismen / Signets? Could probablyd drop some lands for the Moxs, 28 is... up there.

I knew someone would suggest that.

Adding Moxen doesn't really speed up the deck ( you already play 8 mana creatures), and you lose the power of null rod after boarding.

[Plank]

Does this deck just roll over and die to combo? Even post sideboard I don't see an answer to Iggypop or Solidarity.

Edit: Unless Null Rod shuts down Lion's Eye Diamond? Even then, I don't see how it would beat Solidarity.

[Eldariel]

Does this deck just roll over and die to combo? Even post sideboard I don't see an answer to Iggypop or Solidarity.

Edit: Unless Null Rod shuts down Lion's Eye Diamond? Even then, I don't see how it would beat Solidarity.

Null Rod shuts down all artifact-mana, hence why it's such a bomb in Vintage. While it's a weaker MU, Solitary Confinement helps a lot, and a resolved Armageddon is pretty good against Solidarity. I'm not saying, the MUs are good or anything, but the deck is still far from a goldfish. Might be, Abeyance or Chant could be worth something in the MD though, as the deck can be attacking with big guys given time, so getting the time helps, and Chant allows forcing through key-spells like Geddonblaster.

[Atwa]

I (and Hugo also) am testing with a 4 Angelic Grace, 2 Gaea's Blessing build (sb). It looks promising so far.

[Di]

Angel's Grace/Blessing combo is good, but it really hurts the threshold creatures and Terravore. I've been tinkering with the deck a bit because Terravore is absurd, and for anti-combo board I've been running Chalice of the Void and Glowriders. I like these better than the Angel's Grace board because they are useful in more matchups other than Solidarity. Considering the deck can kill rather quickly, you really only need either a single Chalice or Glowrider to resolve to win, because in most cases they won't be able to win through that by turn 5-6.

Anyway, here's the list I've been trying out.

4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Werebear
4 Terravore
4 Wild Mongrel
3 Eternal Witness
1 Genesis

4 Armageddon
3 Life from the Loam
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Solitary Confinement

4 Mox Diamond
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Savannah
3 Flagstones of Trokair
3 Tranquil Thicket
2 Secluded Steppe
2 Wasteland
1 Nantuko Monastery
2 Forest
1 Plains

Sideboard:
3 Tividar's Crusade
3 Pithing Needle
2 Krosan Grip
3 Loxodon Heirarch
4 Chalice of the Void


I run Mox Diamond over Llanowar Elves because I like the option of turn 1 Wild Mongrel or Bear, and turn 1 Chalice from the sideboard. It also has better synergy with the deck. I could give two shits about Null Rod really. The sideboard cards can deal with storm effectively, so shutting off LED and friends isn't necessary. Chalice also happens to be rather good in the affinity matchup, considering almost the entire deck costs either 1 or 2.

The deck really needs to run Nimble Mongoose for those who don't, because it greatly improves the odds of stopping Lackey. This deck has some trouble with Goblins, so it needs all the early blockers it can get. It also happens to be an awesome turn 1 drop.

[Atwa]

@Di:

You add mongoose because you want more options to block a turn 1 Lackey, but you still cut Llanowar?

I understand in your build it might work better, but I think I'd rather have a manaboost in the beginning turns over untargetable, at least in the average games.

However your list looks interesting and I am surely going to play a few games with it, just to feel how the list plays.

How do the Flagstones work out? I can understand the sinergy with the rest of the deck, but does it really shine or is it only average? Does only 2 Confinements feel enough to handle the pre side games against combo decks?

[Di]

You add mongoose because you want more options to block a turn 1 Lackey, but you still cut Llanowar?

I understand in your build it might work better, but I think I'd rather have a manaboost in the beginning turns over untargetable, at least in the average games.

However your list looks interesting and I am surely going to play a few games with it, just to feel how the list plays.

How do the Flagstones work out? I can understand the sinergy with the rest of the deck, but does it really shine or is it only average? Does only 2 Confinements feel enough to handle the pre side games against combo decks?

Llanowar is easily killed. Many Goblins builds run Fanatic, StP, and Incincerator, so the odds of them killing Llanowar is high. It really isn't worth that risk when I have a stable replacement for the mana source in Mox Diamond.

Flagstones isn't anything amazing, but it's rather good. It's synergy with Armageddon is great if you're casting it early, and it can smooth mana in a pinch. It's worth the slot over basic Plains imo.

As for Confinement, I cut the 3rd because I really don't like it that much. Maybe it's just me though. I play the deck very aggressively, and don't really like pure defensive cards in favor of stronger slots. However I still keep it at 2 because it's a solid draw for rough matchups, but not something I always want to see. If it's really an issue then the 3rd can go back in, but the sideboard can generally bail you out in those matchups post-board.

[Eldariel]

The question is again, is your SB strong enough to bring those MUs to 75/25, making you a 50% candidate of winning 2 in a row? I really like this deck though, it seems to finally have the potential to be a Wg deck that can handle the combo MU.

[Bane of the Living]

Reasons to splash red..

1) Gamble and Burning Wish to find Loam is very important. This deck is jank when operating without it.

2) Burning Wish finds geddon effects in board, along with maindeck answers to artifacts and enchantments.

3) Red gives you Devestating Dreams, which is eons better than geddon imo.

4) Siesmic Assault.

Definitely play Mox Diamond over Exploration. Also 5 cycle lands is not enough, go with 6-7. Especially if playing with Confinement.

[Alfred]

Cool looking deck, but what do you do against combo? Armageddon, even with Exploration support seems like it could be a little slow against turn 2-3 combo, or Solidarity that uses Remand and Force of Will.

Have you thought of splashing blue for Meddling Mage? It seems like it would fit your beatdown strategy, as well as being useful in general. If you aren't going to do that, I would suggest devoting a substantial amount of your sideboard to hate, like Glowrider, Abeyance etc.

[lukatron2]

As for Confinement, I cut the 3rd because I really don't like it that much. Maybe it's just me though. I play the deck very aggressively, and don't really like pure defensive cards in favor of stronger slots. However I still keep it at 2 because it's a solid draw for rough matchups, but not something I always want to see. If it's really an issue then the 3rd can go back in, but the sideboard can generally bail you out in those matchups post-board.

Are you kidding? Confinement is one of the staples of this deck in my opinion. Its not only good against combo, but it gives you auto wins! it allows you to steal A LOT of matches that you normally wouldn't be able to, and even with 3 you can still play the aggro role. If it werent for confinement, I would probably just run red over white (for burning wish, devestating dreams, lightning bolt, seismic assult etc). I do like the idea of challice though. I would really like to see how these builds compare in their match-up analysis's against different decks. I suppose there probably isn't enough info though...Then again, I'm sure the original deck designer(s) thought of mongoose and mox and I'm certain that they have a good reason for not running them...

On a side note, I was just curious to why Hierarch is in the sb? I know its a REALLY good creature and his ability is sweet. But which match-ups is he really needed in? seems like there would be something better to fill his 2-3 of slot in the sb with? then again, maybe i'm wrong...

[Di]

Are you kidding? Confinement is one of the staples of this deck in my opinion. Its not only good against combo, but it gives you auto wins! it allows you to steal A LOT of matches that you normally wouldn't be able to, and even with 3 you can still play the aggro role. If it werent for confinement, I would probably just run red over white (for burning wish, devestating dreams, lightning bolt, seismic assult etc). I do like the idea of challice though. I would really like to see how these builds compare in their match-up analysis's against different decks. I suppose there probably isn't enough info though...Then again, I'm sure the original deck designer(s) thought of mongoose and mox and I'm certain that they have a good reason for not running them...

On a side note, I was just curious to why Hierarch is in the sb? I know its a REALLY good creature and his ability is sweet. But which match-ups is he really needed in? seems like there would be something better to fill his 2-3 of slot in the sb with? then again, maybe i'm wrong...

I think you're overestimating Confinement a bit. It's insane yes, but most decks should be able to deal with it. It isn't really anything much against Solidarity or Iggy Pop, both of which can bounce it, but yes it is very strong game 1 vs. Goblins and quick aggro. As I said a 3rd could go in, but I really don't think it's necessary. Maybe if problematic matchups are on the rise.

As for Loxodon, I recently took out Jotun Grunt for it. Grunt is a house, but it was really messing with the gameplan. I'm sure there is a better use out of that slot, but I figured for the time being I'd switch it with an efficient beater. It's not particularly bad against anything, and it's abilities are good for a lot of scenarios. I'll admit I don't have as much testing as I'd like to with it, so I'm unsure on what matchups are the absolute worst for the deck (outside combo), so these slots can very well go towards whatever troublesome decks there are. Maybe the 3rd Confinement and something else. But for now, these guys are fine.



Reasons to splash red...

1) Gamble and Burning Wish to find Loam is very important. This deck is jank when operating without it.

2) Burning Wish finds geddon effects in board, along with maindeck answers to artifacts and enchantments.

3) Red gives you Devestating Dreams, which is eons better than geddon imo.

4) Siesmic Assault.

Definitely play Mox Diamond over Exploration. Also 5 cycle lands is not enough, go with 6-7. Especially if playing with Confinement.

To note, the deck doesn't have to rely on LftL. It's the nuts and makes the deck that much better, but it doesn't need to be the primary focus. The bigger focus seems to be casting Armageddon with men to kill with. That's what the deck does best. I feel this deck is more Erhnamgeddon rather than Aggro-Loam.

Burning Wish, although effective, is also very slow for a deck that's trying to win quickly. It also clutters the sideboard which requires a lot of slots in order to consistantly beat storm combo. I do like Gamble, however, but pushing the deck to 3 colors is rough.

Devastating Dreams is not better than Armageddon. Although it costs less, DD more often than not requires an active LftL, and cards in hand to support it. Geddon needs no such requirements, and kills all their land, not X lands. Plus, with DD the discard is random, which can get you discarding cards you don't want to get rid of.

Seismic Assault is slow and heavily relies on Loam. Plus, the casting cost is awful. Assault creates a different deck altogether. I'd much rather have an efficient creature in this slot anyday.


Red gives a lot of solid options, but it really doesn't outweight white. There are replacements for Armageddon and StP, but they aren't nearly as efficient. Plus you lose Solitary Confinement, which red really has no replacement for.

[Plank]

I won a local tourney tonight with a list similar to Diablos'. -4 Mongoose, +1 Loam, +1 Confinement, +1 Land. Mox in this deck is nuts, I would almost always have 2 - 3 mana after a geddon with the moxs and bears. My mana base was also a little different. I went with Bane_of_the_Livings' idea and ran 7 cycle lands; 4 Thicket, 3 Steppe. Definitely a good call, once you have confinement out you can never see enough of them in the yard, or even late game just to get you deeper and feed Terravore.

[Bane of the Living]

3 Eternal Witness
2 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Genesis
2 Llanowar Elves
4 Werebear
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Life from the Loam
4 Terravore
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Armageddon
3 Solitary Confinement



Lands (25):
1 Bayou
3 Forest
1 Nantuko Monastery
1 Plains
3 Savannah
2 Secluded Steppe
4 Tranquil Thicket
3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills

This list and one almost identical in every card made two top eight spots in Nijmegen Germany on Jan 14. Just thought it was worth mentioning since the Terradegon took off big but died fast.

[Poron]

After Planar Chaos and its Extirpate this deck has no future without red and Burning Wish..

[MasterBlaster]

After Planar Chaos and its Extirpate this deck has no future without red and Burning Wish..

That seems like a big overstatement considering Extirpate is an untested card, probably not maindeck worthy, and the 3 best decks don't run black.

[Poron]

you're probably right but.. black is back, it's really back. And I'm quite sure we'll see many Extirpate in many sideboard next months..

[Radley]

Since there's no blue, is there any posibility to add Bind(2 cc stifle with a draw a card effect) Countering activated ability is really useful now.

Adding red is really an option now. Running 4 burning wish helps to get back life from the loam if it got removed by extirpate or you can just get a life from the loam or any kill cards from SB.

[Shriekmaw]

After Planar Chaos and its Extirpate this deck has no future without red and Burning Wish..


I have not seen Extirpate used that much in Legacy so far. The only decks that I could see running the card is black-based control decks. I think the deck is very well built, that an extirpate does not mean "game over" at all.

Its just a stupid statement to say that without red and burning wish the deck has no future. STUPID!

[Goaswerfraiejen]

I have not seen Extirpate used that much in Legacy so far. The only decks that I could see running the card is black-based control decks. I think the deck is very well built, that an extirpate does not mean "game over" at all.

Its just a stupid statement to say that without red and burning wish the deck has no future. STUPID!

Agreed. I'd be more worried about FS' Yixlid Jailor, and even then it's just a creature (with only one toughness, to boot). Obviously, it shouldn't be discounted, but I think that it can be dealt with as well as an enemy's Jotun Grunt (for example) can--better, in fact.

Extirpate is an annoyance, but it's hardly game-ending for Terrageddon. Extirpate and Jailor are far more serious threats to Ichorid decks, since Ichorid's resources and kill conditions all spend a great deal of time in the graveyard (indeed, Ichorid puts pretty much everything into the graveyard without ever casting much, making it far more vulnerable in this regard than Terrageddon).

[Aggro_zombies]

On the Extirpate argument: the deck doesn't need Life from the Loam to win, it just wants to resolve Terravore and Geddon and smash face. Unless you're worried about killing Terravore-->Extirpate (which Burning Wish doesn't solve), there is no reason to weaken the mana base and splash for a third color when the intent is not to abuse LftL but rather to smash face with disruption backup.

[FakeSpam]

*cast necromancy targeting thread*

The ATW Loam thread is getting most of the discussion. I ran a Terrageddon loam deck yesterday in an 18 man event.

Here is what I ran:

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Terravore
4 Werebear
2 Genesis
2 Eternal Witness

4 Burning Wish
3 Life from the Loam
3 Seismic Assault
3 Devistating Dreams
4 Swords to Plowshares

4 Mox Diamond
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Forest
4 Taiga
4 Wasteland
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
3 Tranquil Thicket
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Savannah
1 Barbarian Ring

---
Sideboard
---

1 Armageddon
1 Wrath of God
1 Pyroclasm
1 Life from the Loam
1 Reverent Silence
1 Meltdown
3 Pithing Needle
3 Krosan Grip
3 Abeyance

...

Anyway, I ended up playing all five rounds, and then losing in the top 8. I absolutely rolled every deck that wasn't combo.

Here is what I noticed during the tournament:

- A resolved seismic assault is a win.

- Devistating Dreams is, no pun intended, Devistating. Dropping a Lhurgoyf and then blowing up the world is a severe beating. Sometimes it was underwhelming, but that was because I didn't have enough cards in hand to power it the way I wanted to. In other words, it was later on in the game and I didn't have loam going for some reason.

- Burning Wish is amazing. It provides protection against extirpate and magus of the moon as well as being Life From the Loam 4-7. It also lets you run a tighter maindeck, keeping the artifact/enchantment hate accessible in the board, and not cluttering up maindeck slots.

- Horizon Canopy isn't nearly as hot when the deck doesn't run exploration.

- Mox Diamond is amazing.

- Opposing AEther Vials = :(

- Drawing Genisis stinks, but he's still a 4/4 for 5. That's not too bad.

Making changes to the deck I was running, I would cut one wasteland, adding a single Volrath's Stronghold. Then, I would cut a land (possibly a horizon canopy, a fetch, or the forest) for a single Bayou.

That helps smooth things out a little bit, and will improve the consistency of ass beatery. It doesn't do anything to improve the combo matchup.

Well, here's where I'm at:

There is no game against combo here. There are two options either:

a) play black. This deck is performing pretty well and being discussed in the ATW thread. The natural idea would be to cut white. Then you lose STP and Armageddon. That's not a huge loss, being replaceable with smothers/terminates and the million red geddon effects out there. Duress, Thoughtsieze, and Dark Confidant are pretty gosh darn powerful. Unfortunately, there isn't a one black mana removal spell that even comes close to the power level of swords to plowshares.

b) Sideboard 4 mana tithe, 4 Orim's Chant, 4 Gaddock Teeg. Win the die roll.

[kabal]

The ATW Loam thread is getting most of the discussion. I ran a Terrageddon loam deck yesterday in an 18 man event.

Here is what I ran:


Is Meltdown the right call? Did you ever have to cast Meltdown with Mox Diamonds in play? How did that affect your game after that? What about Hull Breach in its place? Maybe along with Shattering Spree.

How did they Krosan Grip in your board work out for you? What matches did you board them in and what did you board out?

How about those 3 Devistating Dreams MB, did you ever feel like that was too many or maybe that you would like to have had 1 in the board?

[FakeSpam]

Meltdown seems fine. I would probably be running seeds of innocence if I was going to replace it, and that's going to kill the moxes too. I mean, hull breach might be nice, but the sideboard is so tight as is.

The grips are there for counterbalance control decks. I didn't run into any, but if they aren't sitting in the sideboard, bad things happen to good people. Namely, me. I also would have brought them in game 3 against landstill if it went that far. He brought in crucibles and humilities. It also would be coming in against any deck that ran shackles.

The needles, however, I only brought in against belcher. I probably should have drawn them.

The sideboard needs a lot of work.


D.Dreams was fine, and I feel that three is the right number. It's unlikely to kill the majority of the critters in the deck. Chances are, dreams won't off Terravore, Tarmogoyf, or Werebear. I guess Genesis counts, too. So, Wrath Of God + Armageddon is a pretty good card. It's also a maindeck answer to Magus of the Moon and Empty the Warrens. It's also cheaper and more flexible than Armageddon. It's a strong main card, but I would never wish for it. If I'm in a position to wish, Dreams isn't the answer.

[zulander]

If you're sticking to the white/green splash then here's a list I'd recomend. If you're going to add a color I'd suggest looking at the aggro-loam thread in the DtB forums. I personally like the black splash more.

GW Terrageddon:
Mana: 28
4 Mox Diamond
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
4 Flagstones
4 Savannah
2 Temple Garden
2 Nantuko Monastery
4 G/w cycling lands

Creatures: 21
4 Mongoose
4 Goyf
4 Mongrel
4 Terravore
3 Witness
1 Genesis

Other: 11
4 StP
3 Geddon
4 Life from the Loam
3 Metagamedisruption (i.e 3sphere/tanglewire/chant etc...)


Notes:
1. Play mox diamond, they don't die as easy as the 1 mana elves and they add all the mana you need which can be very useful if you need white.

2. Don't play elves please. Seriously, they aren't even close to as good as the moxen are.

3. Good luck playing the g/w splash only, it's very hard to play. I'd seriously suggest thinking/testing out the red/black splashes in the deck as they help a ton with the bad matchups.

[aTn]

FakeSpam, I haven't tested it, but did you try the following creature base:

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Werebear
3 Terravore
3 Eternal Witness
2 Mystic Enforcer ?

What do you think of Mystic Enforcer ?

Did anyone try out a GWB-list (so without D. Dreams and B. Wish) ?