[Budget] U/G Madness

[nightmaster]

So I'm trying to build a Madness Deck and I'm not having much luck. Perhaps I could get some help.

Creatures: 21
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Aquamoeba
4 Arrogent Wurm
3 Merfolk Looter
2 Wonder

Other Spells: 19
4 Deep Analysis
4 Circular Logic
4 Daze
4 Careful Study
3 Roar of the Wurm

Lands:
4 Yavimaya Coast
8 Island
8 Forest

The deck could use work making it more consistent and more powerful. You can suggest any cards but since right now I'm on a budget if you could name a budget option with it that would be great(Ex. Force of Will eventually goes in for Daze). Thanks for the help.

So suggestions?

[nitewolf9]

Roars should probably be jittes, as you pretty much have no removal. Thats the one thing that glares out at me about this list.

[lukatron2]

you should probably replace careful study for brainstorm (although you don't have fetch-lands so I dunno) although careful study is good, if you don't draw anything good to discard with it, your getting yourself card-disadvantage. Can you afford a couple of jittes? how about fetch lands? (flooded strand, wooded foothills, poluted delta, windsweapt heath). if you can get at least 4 fetches and cut the logics for brainstorms that would be optimal.

[Brushwagg]

Well I'm not sure on what your budget is. So here's a few suggestions.

-3 Merfolf Looter
+3 Waterfront Bouncer.

Bouncer serves 2 uses. 1 It's board control. This is the biggest reason to run him over Looter. You really don't need to filter more cards you need board control. 2. It's another Madness outlet. I'd also up your land count to like 22.

Lands
8x Forest
10x Island
4x Yavimaya Coast (Terramorphic Expanse could go in for some basics -2 Isalnds -2 Forest or something)

Creatures
4x Wild Mongrel
4x Basking Rootwalla
4x Arrogant Wurm
4x Aquamoeba
3x Wonder
3x Waterfront Bouncer

Counters
4x Circular Logic
4x Rune Snag

Draw
4x Brainstorm
4x Deep Anal

You might also want to try to squeeze in some Krosan Grips/Naturalizes. At least board them. If you find that you want some more card filtering I'd try out Mask of Memory.


I've also never been a fan of Roar of the Wurm in Legacy Madness. I would put in the Expanse and run Brainstrom.

I upped the wonder count because you have no way to tutor for it, like Intuiton or Gifts and you really want to draw it and earlier the better.

Well good luck.

Edit:Forgot I wanted to mention Rune Snag. This is so much better then Mana Leak or Daze for you. It gets better as more find their way into the yard.

[nightmaster]

Alright so I have been doing some testing and found this to be a good version.

Creatures: 18
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Aquamoeba
4 Arrogant Wurm
2 Wonder

Other Spells: 21
4 Careful Study
4 Daze
4 Circular Logic
3 Deep Analysis
3 Quiet Speculation
3 Roar of the Wurm

Lands:
1 Yavimaya Coast
4 Tropical Island
8 Island
8 Forest

What do you guys think?

[C.P.]

Alright so I have been doing some testing and found this to be a good version.

Creatures: 18
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Aquamoeba
4 Arrogant Wurm
2 Wonder

Other Spells: 21
4 Careful Study
4 Daze
4 Circular Logic
3 Deep Analysis
3 Quiet Speculation
3 Roar of the Wurm

Lands:
1 Yavimaya Coast
4 Tropical Island
8 Island
8 Forest

What do you guys think?

The deck lacks removal, and looks like the only way of overcoming is just to fly over everything. Probably adding 1 more wonder will do the job. I'm aware this is a buget deck, but try adding stifles. With amount of board controls you have, you need some kind of control.

[Cait_Sith]

Hello. Not having much luck on the Wizard's thread eh? They almost ever post in Legacy except for Myojin and me sometimes.

Boomerang is, by far, the least expensive high quality removal has. It can take care of almost any permanent for a turn. I know it is not amazing, but it works. (DOes anyone know if Cytoshpae is going cheap nowadays?)

[Cait_Sith]

Hello. Not having much luck on the Wizard's thread eh? They almost ever post in Legacy except for Myojin and me sometimes.

Boomerang is, by far, the least expensive high quality removal has. It can take care of almost any permanent for a turn. I know it is not amazing, but it works. (DOes anyone know if Cytoshpae is going cheap nowadays?)

[C.P.]

Echoing truth is another option, or even the plain old unsummon.

[nightmaster]

Ok so here is the big question. With a few changes could this version of Madness be competitive at least at a local tournament? I would like to know before I build the rest of the deck.

Also about bounce. I have found that unsummon can be very useful. But I am stuck on what can come out. Help?

[Brushwagg]

Umm. A few changes? Alot of changes, then I would say yes. Alothough if your Goblins are in your local meta then it's a big NO!!!!!!! Since Goblins stomps Madness. If your looking for a descent list I'd look at Roland Changs list.

[nightmaster]

Is the deck really that bad?

[Eldariel]

No, but it has issues with Goblins. The SB Blasts and Hailstorms are a must. I'd really go with Roland Chang's build, since it IS tested a lot, and there's nary a thing it can't win against. Especially going first, the Stifles and Wastes can win you a lot of games. Since you're going on budget, the lack of Forces, Jittes and such is really going to make the deck a lot weaker. If you have Trop Islands, play fetchlands there too.

[nightmaster]

Well besides Goblins because no one around here plays it, can this deck version perform well or is the deck not worth making if I cant get Force and Jittes.

[AngryTroll]

Madness was the first competitive deck I played. Yes, it can be a competitive deck with a few changes, but realize that adding Force and better lands will make a huge difference.

Waterfront Bouncer: mentioned above, this guy is amazing as a 2 or a 3 of.

I would run 3 Wonders. 2 will work, but especially without Force, sometimes you are just going to need to win NOW, and flying really helps with that.

Careful Study vs Brainstorm: If you have fetchlands around, use Brainstorm. However, your list uses a lot of graveyard stuff (Roar, Wonder, Roootwalla, and Deep Analysis), so you should be ok with Careful Study.

Stifle, Force, Fetchlands, Tropical Islands, Jittes: Add if you have them.

Naturalize mainboard certainly wouldn't hurt anything.

With the list you have so far, I would run something like this:

4 Rootwalla
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Aquameoba
3 Waterfront Bouncer
4 Arrogant Wurm
3 Wonder

4 Careful Study
3 Deep Analysis

4 Circular Logic
4 Daze
2 Naturalize / Unsummon / Counterspell
****Can also be a 3 of, with 3 Daze...if you have Stifle, go 3 Stifle, 3 Daze

4 Yavimaya Coast
[ 4Wasteland, (if you have them...I'll do this without them. take out 2 island, 2 forest if you do)]
2 Centaur Garden
6 Forest
9 Island


If I were to run Madness tomorrow, without a budget, it would look more like this. Add Jittes if you want to...I haven't yet, but easily could.

4 Brainstorm
3 Deep Analysis

4 Rootwalla
4 Mongrel
4 Aquameoba
2 Waterfront Bouncer
4 Arrogant Wurm
3 Wonder

4 Circular Logic
4 Force of Will
3 Stifle

4 Tropical Island
3 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
4 Wasteland
1 Dust Bowl
3 Forest
4 Island

[Brushwagg]

Don't get me wrong I love Madness. While it does have issues with Goblins, budget or not, it pretty much can hang with anything else. You might want to search for the U/g Madness thread in the Open Forum. Roland's list and the one posted here aren't that different, save for Jittes (since they weren't printed at the time).

@Match-ups: We already know Goblins is pretty much an auto loss. I've been on the recieving end of the beating more then once.

Solidarity:When I was playing Madness, Solidarity was just coming out and perfecting it's list. But back then it was a 50/50 match-up. I would have to say it's close to that maybe in their favor now.

Gro: Honestly I haven't tested this match-up at all. I here it favors Madness but I really don't know. My best guess would be 50/50, to 40/60 in Gro favor, just because they have better removal.

@Most other match-ups: Madness use to go 50/50 with alot of stuff. That's pretty much why it got popular, and also why alot of people stopped playing it.