[Discussion] Best cards against goblins

[Lord Xœvx Cvrsed]

My deck is U/W/R Landstill.
What cards are the best against goblins?
I run wrath of god and swords to plowshares.

[Kadaj]

Swords is an obvious must, and potentially so is Wrath of God. If you're gunning specifically for goblins Pyroclasm is another potential bomb that can be useful elsewhere, Pithing Needle to deal with Port/Wasteland is another card I think deserves some merit not in the least due to the fact that it hits something in every deck (at worst you name a fetchland), and perhaps even something additional like Moat or Humility would deserve a slot.

You have a lot of other potential options like Fire/Ice, Starstorm, Rolling Earthquake, ect, as well, so it really depends on how much you want to go after Goblins.

[Citrus-God]

Your running Red... Pyroclasm, Rolling Earthquake, Starstorm, Fire // Ice, Lightning Bolt, Grim Lavamancer, and a ton more stuff. Red is one of the best colors for Landstill if you want to handle Goblins early.

[herbig]

Aether Flash is pretty amazing, but quite useless elsewhere.

[Citrus-God]

Aether Flash is pretty amazing, but quite useless elsewhere.

Did you build a deck around that card for the Goblinator contest thingy over at TML?

Also, I have more to add with 3 colors.


Stifle
Hydroblast/Blue Elemental Blast
Fire // Ice
Lightning Bolt
Pyroclasm
Humility
Moat
Rolling Earthquake
Tivadar's Crusade
Starstorm
Earthquake

[Alfred]

Aether Flash is pretty amazing, but quite useless elsewhere.

I've used it in the sideboard of my Mono-Red Control deck, and when coupled with mass and pinpoint removal, you win the game. When you're talking about a deck that uses a lot of nonbasic lands, I would suggest something that costs a little less, due to Goblins' mana denial strategy especially when you're talking about a splash color.

[MattH]

If you can get it into play, Sphere of Law is tough for them to beat.

[Jankwolf]

Drop red and add black and green....
That gices you
Hail Storm
Pernicious Deed
E.Plague
Infest
Nuff said THE best cards against goblins

[Maverick676]

Going four color is not the way to improve your goblins matchup. Black isn't such a bad idea though, E. Plague is just about the best solution around against goblins. Resolve two and you win teh prize.

[Complete_Jank]

Ghostly Prison is nice, as they then have to spend mana to deal more damage and they aren't tapping you down or wasting lands.

When they cast spells, you counter or remove the creature.

It puts goblins under a mana lock, even if they have vial.

[rsaunder]

Ghostly Prison is nice, as they then have to spend mana to deal more damage and they aren't tapping you down or wasting lands.

When they cast spells, you counter or remove the creature.

It puts goblins under a mana lock, even if they have vial.Propoganda, if it fits your color scheme, or you want more than 4 for whatever reason.

[Cait_Sith]

Lightning Helix can be pricey, but it helps you on two fronts.

[Phantom]

I want to propose something different here. Instead of boarding in really great cards that cost 3 and 4 mana, why not board in some really cheap cards that will help you stunt Goblins and get to the cards you already run that screw Goblins (i.e. Wrath).

I say you board Needles and Stifles. If you can needle vial (and then waste and/ore port) and stifle Ringleaders, Landstill should have a pretty darn good matchup against Goblins.

Ghostly Prison and Plague are great and all, but I have certainly seen my fair share of games lost against Goblins while players clutch these cards, unable to play them.

[Cait_Sith]

It actually depends alot on your deck. Also, for the most part Hydroblast/Blue Elemental Blast > Stifle. Stifle stops the creature's special affect while the Blasts just stop the creature all together.

[Team-Hero]

Chill and warmth are really nice early game. Honestly, even though it contradicts what I just said, I don't really like to use enchantments (specially global enchantments) to try to hinder goblins. Goblins now a days are splashed with green and white to handle enchantments and/or artifacts.

Foothill guide is pretty good and is cheap to put down against a lackey or piledriver.

Tivadar's Crusade, like Anti~American4621 said, is very effective.

Stifle, like a lot of my fellow peers stated, are awsome because not only do they hose the goblin's ability, but they also plow down Wastelands.

Blue Elemental Blast and Hydroblast are soooo good when it comes to tempo. These two cards combined with Swords to Plowshares should give you the edge for the early game. The problem with these 3 cards though is that they only hit !1! target. I stress this because I rather have a card that hoses down 2 or more goblins than trade card for card against an opponent.

[Phantom]

It actually depends alot on your deck. Also, for the most part Hydroblast/Blue Elemental Blast > Stifle. Stifle stops the creature's special affect while the Blasts just stop the creature all together.

Stifles are generally more useful in the board as they can come in in more matchups than BEB. Also, stifling goblins first fetch is actually a pretty damn good play. Point taken though.

[Plank]

Don't forget, you can Stifle Piledrivers ability that triggers when they declare their attackers. He's pro blue but Stifle targets the ability, not the creature.

[C-Aleric]

I don't think that's a triggered ability, Plank, I believe the Driver just gets it as a static effect as soon as the goblins are turned sideways.

*Whenever ~~~ attacks, it gets +2/+0 for each other attacking goblin*

I don't think this ability uses the stack. Though, if I'm wrong, and it does, and you can actually target the ability of a Pro-Blue creature, I'd love to know that I'm wrong. I'd be hideously laughing.

But honestly, the reason Stifle is good against Goblins, is not because of the Goblins it hits, it's because of the Fetch-Lands that you can get on Turns 1-2. If you nail Goblin's first land drop, and you were on the play, it cripples them when you're playing a competitive deck that can keep applying any sort of pressure to them. Wrath effects are good, but with out something to back them up, Ringleader will refill their hand (unless you have Wrath and Stifle, in which case, *thumbs up*). The FACT that stifle nails Matron/Ringleader just makes it versitile late game. But honestly, keeping them off lands is the way to go. Pithing Needle on Vial, Stifle the Fetch/Waste lands.

[Volt]

I don't think that's a triggered ability, Plank, I believe the Driver just gets it as a static effect as soon as the goblins are turned sideways.

*Whenever ~~~ attacks, it gets +2/+0 for each other attacking goblin*

I don't think this ability uses the stack. Though, if I'm wrong, and it does, and you can actually target the ability of a Pro-Blue creature, I'd love to know that I'm wrong. I'd be hideously laughing.

But honestly, the reason Stifle is good against Goblins, is not because of the Goblins it hits, it's because of the Fetch-Lands that you can get on Turns 1-2. If you nail Goblin's first land drop, and you were on the play, it cripples them when you're playing a competitive deck that can keep applying any sort of pressure to them. Wrath effects are good, but with out something to back them up, Ringleader will refill their hand (unless you have Wrath and Stifle, in which case, *thumbs up*). The FACT that stifle nails Matron/Ringleader just makes it versitile late game. But honestly, keeping them off lands is the way to go. Pithing Needle on Vial, Stifle the Fetch/Waste lands.

Piledriver's ability is in fact a triggered ability, and may therefore be Stifled. Having played the CounterSliver vs. Goblins matchup about 500 times, I can tell you that Stifle only occasionally gets used that way, though. The most common usages by far are:

1) Stifle a Wasteland
2) Stifle Ringleader

After that, it's a toss-up between stopping the triggered abilities of Goblin Matron, Goblin Lackey, and Goblin Piledriver.

[C-Aleric]

That's incredible. One more reason to run that card in every deck that uses the standard Blue suite. This format, was designed to have Stifle cripple mana bases.

[Volt]

That's incredible. One more reason to run that card in every deck that uses the standard Blue suite. This format, was designed to have Stifle cripple mana bases.

Yeah. Whenever I hear someone say that Stifle is just a sideboard card, or suited only to specific metagames, I shake my head sadly. It would take a pretty specific (and unusual) metagame for Stifle not to be good. In fact, I think it can be seriously argued that Stifle is the 2nd best counterspell in Legacy.

[Phantom]

Yeah. Whenever I hear someone say that Stifle is just a sideboard card, or suited only to specific metagames, I shake my head sadly. It would take a pretty specific (and unusual) metagame for Stifle not to be good. In fact, I think it can be seriously argued that Stifle is the 2nd best counterspell in Legacy.

Yeah, I always wanted to build a U/B deck with stifle and waste and sinkhole and maybe shadow of doubt but I could just never work out a good creature/counter/disruption base. I suck at life.

[C-Aleric]

I think the next deck I build to run around Stifle, will no doubt be running Parallax Tide/Wave. There is a deck I saw around these fourms that abuses this, and I thought it was geneious, and another way to abuse this card to no end.

And you should really try to build that deck. Maybe go for a long lock type deal then. If you can't build a creature base that's good, try for an annoying deck that just runs Braids/Crucible or something. It doesn't need to be good as soon as you build it. Just tweak around with it. Shadow of Doubt could impact this format, for sure. There are a lot of Tutors, and a lot of Fetches, and that card slaps them both in the face. I think with a good shell, you could definitely make this viable. If I were to come up with something off the top of my head that ran these cards, it would run:

Stifle, Shadow of Doubt, Pherexian Totem, Braids, Crucible, FoW, Mishra's Factory... etc... I don't know if it could ever be good, but it might be fun.

A deck like this could have some game against Goblins, if it had the early answers. It prevents them from using matron and fetches. Maybe Jam in Edicts/Smother for some Isochron abuse. I don't know *shrugs*.


But, more on topic. Stifle, is probably hands down the best blue card against Goblins, short of FoW (which is good in a totally different way).

[C.P.]

Yeah, I always wanted to build a U/B deck with stifle and waste and sinkhole and maybe shadow of doubt but I could just never work out a good creature/counter/disruption base. I suck at life.

I get what you say, but I think C-Aleric and Volt has a point. Stifle is very versatile, and it takes care of things that nomal counterspell can't at a price tag of a single blue mana. Ability to cripple mana base + hate wasteland + laugh at matron/ringleader in one card is nothing to look down at.

I do admit that there are people whe loves stifle too much and stick them to where they do not belong, it is a very good nontheless.

[Happy Gilmore]

Stifle by a long shot. If I were playing landstill, which I never will, stifle would be main as a 3 of. If you can think of an important matchup where they are not good I would love to hear it.

lacky activations, piledrived activations, matron, ringleader, gempalm, wasteland, SGC come into play ability, you name it. Stifle hurts like a bitch if your goblins. But your going to need more than that against them if you expect to win. Red has easy access to addictional sweepers but white has only a couple.

Tividar's crusade and Waylay are about the only cheap ones I can think of. And it doesnt hurt that Waylay is 2W to cast.

[Bardo]

Provided you can beat SGC, Dueling Grounds is kinda fun:

Card type: Enchantment
Casting cost: 1GW
Oracle text: No more than one creature can attack each turn.
No more than one creature can block each turn.

I'll also second Sphere of Law.

[Hanni]

I'm just going to chime in here, even though it's probably been overstated enough already. I didn't see this mentioned in detail enough, so I figured I'd do that.

If your playing Control, and especially if your playing Blue (UWR Landstill in this case), run Stifle. Control is designed to beat Goblins but Goblins has something that defies the laws of aggro... a RED Fact or Fiction (and it's on a 2/2 haste body that's tutorable). Casting Wrath of God should be the clincher... but when your opponent simply refills his hand and proceeds to refill the board within a turn or 2, you run into serious problems as the Control player. Stifle answers Ringleader... and Ringleader is the card that will make or break the matchup. Stifling fetchlands can be funny, hitting Wastelands will save you, but stopping that Ringleader activation is the most important play you can make.

That's all I really have to say about that. Maindeck at least 3 Stifle if your playing blue, especially if your playing Control.

[C-Aleric]

I'll agree with Hanni. Ringleader is the back breaker in the drawn out matches against Control. Watching them refill their hand instantly, then proceeding to drop 3-4 goblins and swing for 10 the turn after, is disgusting.

If you are playing a blue deck that has any kind of tempo though (Threshold/UWb Fish) I believe that going straight for the Fetch Land will win you more games than waiting for the Ringleader. It just slows them down too much. Maybe in game one, waiting for the refill is a good option, but in games 2-3, when you board in the Plagues/Other goblin hate, you deck should be able to beat them if you don't nail the Fetch Land. So, if you prevent them from a land drop, you'll have such a huge advantage, it's gross.

Stifle Fetches, and Fetch your own basics. And pound them into the ground.