Pithing Needle morph

[noobagain]

Sorry to keep asking such lame questions, but I haven't played in years and am slowly getting back into the game.

Can a pithing needle name exalted angel to keep it from morphing? I thought morphing was different from an activated ability.

[Ta Jugs]

Morphing does not use the stack so no.

[tivadar]

The fact that it doesn't use the stack has nothing to do with it. Morphing is not an activated ability, it is actually a static ability, so no, pithing does not affect it.

[xsockmonkeyx]

The face down morph creature does not have the name "Exalted Angel". So a Pithing Needle naming Exalted Angel would not effect it's abilities, no?

[tivadar]

Also true, the facedown does not have a name, even if it was an activated ability, you could not name anything and have it stop the morph. In summary:

Pithing needle affects activated abilities
Pithing needle requires naming a card
Morphing is a static ability
Face down cards have no name

For some reason, everyone seems fine with this rule where I play, yet plenty of people who run meddling mage have named exalted angel against me not realizing that it really doesn't do a whole lot.

[cdr]

Be careful with what you are talking about in terms of rules.

Morph is a static ability, but morph is playing a creature face down from your hand.

Turning a face-down card face up is not morph, and it is not an ability - it is a special action.

See 502.26 (http://magiccards.info/rule/502/) for morph and 504 (http://magiccards.info/rule/504/) for face-down.

An interesting note with Pithing Needle: You cannot intentionally mislead your opponent about the rules. This can be a very fine line. From a recent discussion among judges, the best option you have when your opponent asks you if he can name Exalted Angel with Pithing Needle, especially in higher-level events, is to tell him to ask the judge.

[Pinder]

Also along the same vein, since turning a creature face up is (as was mentioned) a special action, and not an ability, you can respond to a split second spell by morphing a creature, because it doesn't use the stack.

EDIT: And while we're on the subject, a facedown spell (a morphed creature on the stack) has CMC 0, but a facedown creature (once it resolves) has no mana cost, right? I believe that's how it works after they changed it.

[cdr]

The answer is right in 502.26:


502.26b To play a card using its morph ability, turn it face down. It becomes a 2/2 face-down creature card, with no text, no name, no subtypes, no expansion symbol, and no mana cost. These values are the copiable values of that object's characteristics. Put it onto the stack (as a face-down spell with the same characteristics), and pay {3} rather than pay its mana cost.

It has no mana cost (giving it a converted mana cost of 0, 203.3a) both on the stack and in play.

[Pinder]

Ah, so Deed and EE can still kill a facedown Exalted Angel. Good to know.

[Mirrislegend]

So if I have a Chalice set at 0, and they try to play a morph creature face-down from their hand, it gets countered, right?

[My Name Is Scott]

So if I have a Chalice set at 0, and they try to play a morph creature face-down from their hand, it gets countered, right?
Akki has succesfully confused me. I've seen judges rule that a morph's converted casting cost while it's on the stack is 3.

[tivadar]

No, it's converted mana cost is 0 while on the stack, If you play a morph face-down with chalice set at 0, it gets countered, relevant rule:

# 502.26a - Morph is a static ability that functions in any zone from which you could play the card it's on, and the morph effect works any time the card is face down. The phrase "Morph [cost]" means "You may play this card as a 2/2 face-down creature, with no text, no name, no subtypes, no expansion symbol, and a mana cost of {0} by paying {3} rather than its mana cost." Any time you could play an instant, you may show all players the morph cost for any face-down permanent you control, pay that cost, then turn the permanent face up. This action does not use the stack. (See Rule 504, "Face-Down Spells and Permanents.") [CompRules 2003/07/01]

[Bardo]

Akki has succesfully confused me. I've seen judges rule that a morph's converted casting cost while it's on the stack is 3.

Yeah, this confused me too.

From Ask The Judge at SCG


Q: If there is Chalice of the Void with 0 counters on it, will Morph spells be countered if they are played using the Morph ability?

A: Yes. While you pay three to play a face down Morph spell, the converted mana cost of these spells is zero, so Chalice of the Void's ability will trigger.

Huh.

Here's the rest of the that thread. (http://www.starcitygames.com/pages/judgefinder.php?PHPSESSID=16da8591e2302376b971faf072be84e8&keywords=chalice+of+the+void&Submit2=Ask+The+Judge%21)

[Plank]

Rule 502.18a states that "Cycling is an activated ability that functions only while the card with cycling is in a player’s hand. 'Cycling [cost]' means '[Cost], Discard this card: Draw a card.'" Does this mean that you can Pithing Needle anything with cycle like a Tranquil Thicket? Would naming Eternal Dragon stop the plainscycling and returning ability?

[Volt]

Rule 502.18a states that "Cycling is an activated ability that functions only while the card with cycling is in a player’s hand. 'Cycling [cost]' means '[Cost], Discard this card: Draw a card.'" Does this mean that you can Pithing Needle anything with cycle like a Tranquil Thicket? Would naming Eternal Dragon stop the plainscycling and returning ability?

Yes to all questions.

[tivadar]

Actually quick question along those lines. If a player has a Tranquil Thicket in play, and there's a Tsabo's Web on the board, does that Tranquil Thicket untap? My guess is no because it has an activated ability, whether or not that activated ability is a "functioning" one.

[Volt]

Actually quick question along those lines. If a player has a Tranquil Thicket in play, and there's a Tsabo's Web on the board, does that Tranquil Thicket untap? My guess is no because it has an activated ability, whether or not that activated ability is a "functioning" one.


Your guess is correct.

http://magiccards.info/in/en/317/

Note, however, that lands with Threshold activated abilities (i.e. Nantuko Monastery, Barbarian Ring, etc.) are only affected by Tsabo's Web if there are 7 cards in the controller's graveyard.

[Locutus]

Note, however, that lands with Threshold activated abilities (i.e. Nantuko Monastery, Barbarian Ring, etc.) are only affected by Tsabo's Web if there are 7 cards in the controller's graveyard.
This ruling is from 2002/02/01, at which point Threshold was a keyword ability that altered the text of a card. Now, Threshold is an ability Word, so it does not have an effect, ruleswise. From the CompRules:

502.23a Threshold used to be a keyword ability. It is now an ability word and has no rules meaning. All cards printed with the threshold keyword have received errata. Updated wordings are available in the Oracle card reference.

So, cards like Barbariang Ring won't untup under Tsabo's Web even if you don't have threshold