[Discussion] Stompy - What's the best build?

[lukatron2]

Stompy is a deck that has been around for years and was/is very viable in different formats throughout time. In legacy, it currently seems to be an unpopular deck but is in fact very viable and competative against all of the top tier decks. Here I would like to discuss the different builds of stompy currently and how many land are optimal? 9,10,11? Ahmead Bakir placed 22nd with this list at one of the dfd and I think its a pretty solid list.


Creatures
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Ghazban Ogre
4 Jungle Lion
4 Quirion Ranger
4 River Boa
4 Rogue Elephant
4 Skarrgan Pit-skulk
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Vine Dryad

Enchantments
4 Rancor

Instants
4 Bounty Of The Hunt
4 Giant Growth

Sorceries
4 Land Grant

Basic Lands
9 Forest

Sideboard:
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Rushwood Legate
4 Hidden Gibbons
2 Naturalize
1 Tranquil Domain
1 Gaea's Blessing

Pretty sexy huh?

well, here is a list that I have developed and split for 2nd with it at a local tourney last week against u/b/w lenny fish(time ran out so we split...we were both 1 and 1 with eachother)...This build has a way different approach than your traditional 9 land stompy but the strategy and idea is the same. I run 10 land instead of 9 because I think it is a little more stable. I'm not saying this build is the best but its pretty consistent/fast. It can win as early as turn 2 (although not very common) but turn 3/4/5 wins are VERY common. Anyhow, heres the list:

Stompy By: Lukatron

Land
10 forest

sorceries
4 land grant

creatures
4 elvish spirit guide
4 rouge elephant
4 skyshroud elite
4 skyshroud ridgeback
4 quirion ranger
4 silhana ledgewalker (with rancor or anything, he wins LOTS of games)
2 Ghazban ogre (could be Skarrgan Pit-skulk if you want)

pump
4 berserk
4 rancor
4 might of old krosa
4 seal of strength
4 bounty of the hunt

sb
4 krosan grip/or naturalize
4 hidden gibbons
4 pithing needle
3 hail storm

I want to make room for compost and seedtime but the sideboard can be tweaked however you want it
alright...go ahead...say it...."Engineered plague owns you"
true, I do have a lot of elves but black isn't my best match-up anyhow with all of the land distruction and discard (I hear that land grant isn't too hot if your opponent is playing cabal therapy). but this deck is SOO fast! you can treat the pump as burn or use it to kill there dudes so that you don't trade. also, you can pump in response to their burn. Swords to plowshares is a problem but if you know they are playing it, it isn't too hard to play around and also thats when ledgewalker steals games. berserk is soo amazing on any of the creatures (ledgewalker in particular) but it just WINS...FAST. Yesterday I had a turn 2 win. My opening hand was rouge elephant, elvish spirit guide, 2 berserk, bounty of the hunt, forest, land grant. Turn 1, drop forest, rouge elephant, go. Turn 2, draw quirion ranger, cast bounty of the hunt 6 dmg (pitching the ranger), bersker 12 dmg, berserk 24 dmg (pitching elvish spirit guide), win. anyhow, its a really fun deck...lemme know what you think!

[Citrus-God]

The Ledgewalkers are dead sexy. Me and Alec always loved her in RG Beatz, and she's a crazy evasive Troll.

I think 9-10 Lands is fine. You have land grants, so mehh.

[DarkAkuma]

How many lands depends on you build/curve. The more common mono green stompy however is 9-Land Stompy, consisting of mostly 1cc creatures, a handfull of 2cc creatures, moderate amount of pump, and traditionaly including Winter Orb.

There's a thread full of disscussion about it already, buired several pages back in this forum, that you should check out.

http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3871

But until you look at that thread, i can tell you. Cards like Ghazban Orge, Skyshroud Ridgeback, Seal of Strength, Might of Old Krosa, and to some extent even Beserk, dont make the cut. As far as the creatures go, Pit Skulk and Jungle Lion are better. In your build you will be drawing pump to often with no creatures to cast them on. Giant Growth is superior to Might of Old Krosa in any competative 9LS deck, cause its often more advisable to save that pump for a suprize. Same goes for seal, as since its sitting out there in plain view, theirs no suprize. While Briar Shield suffers from that same lack of suprize, its better then seal just cause it can add damage in the mean time, before you sac it. Still i only play 2 briar sheilds at most.

Theres other things about that list i could disscuss as not being optimal, but realy everything else is just a matter of someones personal opinion. The inclusion/lack of inclusion of the cards ive mentioned are more widely agreed opon.

For refferance, ill post my more current decklist that i piloted to a win a couple weeks ago at my local weekly tourney.

// Lands
9 [UG] Forest

// Creatures
4 [AL] Elvish Spirit Guide
4 [PT] Jungle Lion
4 [VI] Quirion Ranger
2 [VI] River Boa
2 [MM] Rushwood Legate
4 [GP] Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 [EX] Skyshroud Elite
4 [MM] Vine Dryad
2 extra "Secret Tech" creatures i am testing

// Spells
2 [WL] Briar Shield
4 [B] Giant Growth
4 [MM] Land Grant
4 [UL] Rancor
3 [RAV] Sundering Vitae
4 [B] Winter Orb

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [MI] Tranquil Domain
SB: 3 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [MI] Sandstorm
SB: 2 [TE] Root Maze
SB: 1 [MI] Rushwood Legate

A brief explanation of my choices are. I have ALOT of Islands in my meta, hate scooping first game to a main deck chalice for 1 or humility, just now finaly brought myself to completely remove Rogue Elephant (as hard as it was), still find Winter Orb helping far to often to get it out of the main deck, and i absolutely hate Bounty of the Hunt in 9LS.

[lukatron2]

well, I placed 2nd with this build in a tourney on wednesday again.

I beat :
round 1, rock
round 2, belcher
round 3, angel stax (game one challice for 1=I scoop, game 2, beatdown w/rogue elephant+rancor, he couldn't stabilize fast enough. game 3, Turn 3 win [double berserk w/some other pump] don't know how I won that match)
round 4, b/w jank (easy win)

anywho, the two weeks that I've been playing this deck it has won me 2 second place wins, so thats pretty sweet. Here's the list I played yesterday

land sources

10 forest
4 land grant
4 Elvish spirit guide

creatures

4 rogue elephant
4 skyshoud elite
4 quirion ranger
4 silhana ledgewalker (SO AMAZING IN THIS DECK!)
4 skyshroud ridgeback (He is pretty questionable and I will probably cut him for Skarrgan Pit-Skulk eventually but he hasn't screwed me over yet)
2 Ghazbán Ogre

pump

4 berserk
4 rancor
4 seal of strength (people say that giant growth is better, but this one stays around and makes your opponent think twice, once its out there its a house and you don't need to leave mana open)
4 bounty of the hunt
4 might of old krosia

sb
4 hidden gibbons
3 pithing needle
3 krosan grip
4 hail storm
1 seedtime

[keys]

Seriously, Skarrgan Pit-Skulk is the king in 10LS. He's virtually unblockable with all your pump, and the bloodthirst is a bonus. Get him in there asap.

Ledgewalker is good, but have you tried River Boa instead? Its evasion is often just as applicable, and it comes with 2 power and regeneration. Boa blocks Piledrivers and Jotun Grunts when you're in a bind, can't say the same for Ledgewalker.

Your pump spells look fine, although I do like Invigorate a LOT here. It's so helpful at saving yours dorks from burn, and it gets in there with Berzerk for free (or hardcasted for a very reasonable 2G). You should at least give it a test. Also, I prefer Giant Growth to Seal of Strength and Might of Old Krosa, but I'll admit that the differences are minimal. Bounty is the one pump you never want to leave at home.

Some other differences between your list and mine is that I run Hidden Gibbons maindeck. I also play 4 Scavenger Folk, because opposing equipment and lock pieces (e.g. Trinisphere) are big problems, and I like having answers maindeck. They at least pitch to Bounty or hold a Rancor and beat. Is there any reason why you play Krosan Grip instead of Naturalize in the SB? EE and P. Deed are gonna blow before you can respond anyway, so your best answer is Needle. Naturalize is just more efficient/reliable in most situations, I think.

Another thing, Tempting Wurm is pretty techy against Solidarity and IGGY Pop, and can even give some aggro decks a run for their money. It's a solid SB card.

Here's a list that runs very well for me. The Sideboard is very efficient-- I'll include matchup suggestions.

//Creatures
4 River Boa
4 Rogue Elephant
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Hidden Gibbons
3 Scavenger Folk

//Disruption
3 Winter Orb

//Pump
4 Rancor
4 Giant Growth
4 Bounty of the Hunt

//Mana
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Land Grant
10 Forest

//Sideboard
2 Naturalize
2 Wear Away
4 Tempting Wurm
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Pithing Needle
1 Winter Orb

Sideboard plans:
Goblins
-4 Hidden Gibbons, -3 Winter Orb
+4 Tempting Wurm, +3 Pithing Needle

Solidarity
-4 Bounty of the Hunt, -1 Scavenger Folk
+4 Tempting Wurm, +1 Winter Orb

Storm Combo
-4 River Boa, -3 Scavenger Folk
+4 Tempting Wurm, +3 Tormod's Crypt

Threshold/Gro
-3 Quirion Ranger, -3 Winter Orb, -4 random dorks
+3 Pithing Needle, +3 Tormod's Crypt, +4 Tempting Wurm (against UGR)

B/W "Deadguy Ale"
-1 Rogue Elephant, -3 Scavenger Folk
+1 Winter Orb, +3 Pithing Needle (Nantuko Shade, Scrolls, and Equipment)

Gamekeeper/Salvagers
-3 Scavenger Folk, -4 River Boa
+3 Tormod's Crypt, +3 Pithing Needle, +1 Winter Orb

Fairy Stompy/Angel Stompy
-4 Hidden Gibbons, -4 Skyshroud Elite
+2 Naturalize, +2 Wear Away, +1 Winter Orb, +3 Pithing Needle

[C.P.]

First, for the original list, I do not like the ogre. and maindeck Verdian Zealot might not be too bad, better than something like ledgewalker.

There is one question that I always wondered:
Is Land Grant better than the fetchlands in stompy?

P.S. Oh, and why is the cradle missing?

[DarkAkuma]

Zealot costs to much for a normal 9-10 Land Stompy deck. You want to try to stick mostly with one casting cost creatures, and a few 2cc. Most games you should only see 1 land, and play tricks with rangers and that land to get 2cc creatures out. Also zealot, lyrist and other enchantment detroying creatures are worthless against humility. Naturalize, Wear Away, and Sundering Vitae are still your best answers.

Land Grant is played over fetchs cause its pitchable to Vine Dryad (and BotH is lesser builds). Also you dont lose life helps i guess. And it simply just wouldnt be 9 Land Stompy then. Would be like 13 or 17 Land Stompy...

If you mean Gaea's Cradle. It just doesent add anything this deck needs. 9LS doesent need alot of mana. Also non basics make this thing more vulnerable to wasteland. Cradle has no sinergy with the power house that is ranger. And Cradle just needs creatures in play first before you can use it.

[Iranon]

What are the reasons for playing this over Berserk Affinity, considering nobody is hating on that? It doesn't seem noticably faster and is bound to run out of steam more often.

Higher resilency to mana denial? Less screwing yourself over with incorrect mulligan choices?

I'm not dismissing the deck, I have played it occasionally since the Mirage block. Just wondering.

[lukatron2]

Seriously, Skarrgan Pit-Skulk is the king in 10LS. He's virtually unblockable with all your pump, and the bloodthirst is a bonus. Get him in there asap.

Yea, he is super sweet. The other day I was looking at my build and I was thinking "why do I have the ogre in here when there is pit-skulk?" I guess the only excuse I have is that the arrabian nights ogre's look badass.




Ledgewalker is good, but have you tried River Boa instead? Its evasion is often just as applicable, and it comes with 2 power and regeneration. Boa blocks Piledrivers and Jotun Grunts when you're in a bind, can't say the same for Ledgewalker.

Boa is sweet. I used to play him in my rg beats, but there were too many times where I cast him, and then I don't have the mana to regenerate. When I CAN regen him, he is awsome, but when I can't, hes just a crappy 2/1. I like ledgewalker because he is untargetable and almost unblockable. Most games if I get him out with a rancor or a berserk in hand, its GG. I should test river boa though cause he is really good



Some other differences between your list and mine is that I run Hidden Gibbons maindeck...Is there any reason why you play Krosan Grip instead of Naturalize in the SB? EE and P. Deed are gonna blow before you can respond anyway, so your best answer is Needle. Naturalize is just more efficient/reliable in most situations, I think.

Hidden gibbons maindeck is sooo sweet. I used to run that in my r/g beats a long time ago. I'm thinking about running that or hidden Guerrillas main. They work most matches and I love having a fatty out there, but I just hate it in the matches where its dead (goblins only runs swords to plowshares). but like I said, my list isn't final right now. I'll swap gibbons main for a while and see how it works. The only reason I use grip is because i'm paranoid about challice at 1 and 2. Its happend to me before and its not all that unlikely with farie stompie as a deck out there (not to mention angel stax) but I guess its just a personal preference. I might switch them around.



Another thing, Tempting Wurm is pretty techy against Solidarity and IGGY Pop, and can even give some aggro decks a run for their money. It's a solid SB card.

I dunno about this one. Allowing solidarity to drop an extra land a turn could speed up there combo 1-2 turns faster than usual. I think that this deck can race them as is (50/50 probably) gibbons and pump seems like enough. I can't really think of a deck that it would help you that much where it would be worth letting them dump their whole hand exept maybe iggy-pop


What are the reasons for playing this over Berserk Affinity, considering nobody is hating on that? It doesn't seem noticably faster and is bound to run out of steam more often.

Higher resilency to mana denial? Less screwing yourself over with incorrect mulligan choices?

I'm not dismissing the deck, I have played it occasionally since the Mirage block. Just wondering.

One thing I don't like about affinity is that most people run disenchant/naturalize sb. so when game 2 comes, naturalize basically reads "destroy target permanent affinity player controls" with the exeption of atog and diciple. Another commonly ran sb/main board card is pithing needle. it shuts down the decks key cards (cranial plating, ravager, atog). Now these are common sb cards that are not always, but often can be devestating to affinity. Keep in mind that these are just regular sb cards that people would probably run even if afffinty wasn't around.

another thing: pernicious deed pretty much wrecks both decks, but at least stompy gets to keep its land

With my experience with this particular stompy build, turn 3,4,5 wins are very common. I'm not saying affinity can't do that as well, but they usually need a better hand

I play r/g beats a lot in tourneys and I would be a lot more scared to play against sompy than affinity because post-sb the affinity match up increases a lot (pyroclasm/naturalize/pithing needle)
these are just my oppinion so don't take offense to any of it.

[Clark Kant]

I play the deck, and it NEVER works the way it's supposed to.

Okay, never is too strong a word. But it doesn't work the way it's supposed to a good third of the games you play.

You are either mana screwed (happens to this deck a lot easier than others) or mana flooded, or your hand has antisynergy or something and you end up with a six turn clock rather than the four turn clock this deck desperately needs.

Running chaff like Ledgewalker, Sundering Vitae and Winter Orb only makes the deck less consistent. But even without them, with a creature base of almost entirely 2 power 1 drops and free creatures, the clock can still be delayed by a bad opening.

Is there anyway to improve on this. Perhaps, upping the land count or something.

[aisman132000]

I just want to say that this deck is incredibly underrated and is way better than people give it credit for being. The past three local legacy tournaments i have played in (lake forest park shopping center, WA) i have gone 4-0 twice and 3-1 once losing only to mid range g/w aggro and beating a number of tier 1-2 decks including, truffle shuffle (granted he got mana screwed and then color screwed but meh, i'll take it), tog, counter sliver, fish (multiple variants), mono black discard/suicide, r/g beats, and vial goblins. against the top tier this deck has good matchups against threshold and it goes about fifty/fifty with solidarity and goblins. Furthermore this deck totally punks blue based aggro control thanks to its sideboard, and demolishes pikula/suicide type decks. While it may not be a top caliber deck it has good matchups against popular decks and i enjoy playing it. Plus it's only worth like fourty bucks. There isn't a much more satisfying feeling than beating someone with a deck that is worth maybe two of their dual lands. Here is the build that i played which is pretty standard and by no means original.

Creatures
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Wild Dogs
4 Jungle Lion
4 Quirion Ranger
4 River Boa
4 Rogue Elephant
4 Skarrgan Pit-skulk
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Vine Dryad

Enchantments
4 Rancor

Instants
4 Bounty Of The Hunt
4 Giant Growth

Sorceries
4 Land Grant

Basic Lands
9 Forest

Sideboard:
3 Winter Orb
4 Rushwood Legate
4 Hidden Gibbons
4 Naturalize

Mana:
I play the standard nine land stompy mana base, nothing spectacular. It's time tested and proven don't mess with it.

Creatures:
All of my creatures are pretty standard as well. Vine dryad pitches for free and gives you explosive starts. Furthermore it allows you to get rid of dead cards like extra land grants. River boa is probably your best createure and nessecary for 12, 10, or 9 land stompy builds. Rogue elephant is a 3/3 for one green, while it's drawback can be steep you can always play around it by pitching it to bounty of the hunt or vine dryad if your light on land. Quirion ranger is what makes nine lands possible and gives you some cute combat tricks. Skyshroud elite/jungle lion/wild dogs are lumped together because they're all basically two power guys for one mana. this deck plays aggro so these guys are obviously nessecary. i play wild dogs instead of ghazban ogres because i've found the extra point of toughness to not be an issue and wild dogs can cycle which i have found to be relivant in playtesting. Skargan pit-skulk is amazing in this deck. there is nothing better than pit-skulk + rancor.

Pumps:
These are all pretty standard. Rancor is an obvious include. Some people don't like bounty of the hunt but i do. like vine dryad you can use it to get rid of dead cards in hand and it can save multiple guys from pyroclasm. Giant growth is a pretty basic pump spell. it could be replaced by might of old krosa or briar shield but giant growth is the original and imho the best.

SB:
I love the sb and i wouldn't change anything except maybe play pithing needle over winter orb. Rushwood legate is obviously good against any deck that plays blue cards. Hidden gibbons is great against a lot of decks especially solidarity and threshold/counter sliver/fish. If it weren't for goblins i would probably md these. Naturalize kills worship and other annoying enchantments/artifacts.

Possible other cards:

Berserk: You could play this i guess but i wouldn't. there already has been quiet a lot of discussion about it and in my opinion it simply isn't worth it. Plus there like 30-40 bucks a pop, yikes.

Briar Shield: i like this card a lot as it gives you a pseudo rancor/giant growth thing. But it can't save your guys like giant growth can and there is no surprise factor which is important.

Quirion sentinel: 2 mana jungle lion....yeah not that good. I know you get a mana back but sometimes you can't get two mana. Plus what would this replace? wild dogs maybe? it seems too restrictive to me considering your other options.

Might of old krosa: I might start playing this over giant growth. +4/+4 for one green seems good especailly agianst combo where it can dramaticly speed up your clock. Although as an instant it can't save a lot of your guys from lighting bolt which is bad.

Matchups:

Threshold U/g/w and U/g/r: This matchup is very favorable and i encourage anyone who doesn't believe me to play it for themselves. it feels like 60/40 pre board and 70/30 post. Pre board you simply spit out two many guys for them to effectivly deal with. Post board you get rushwood legate and hidden gibbons. They can never block vine dryad or riverboa and riverboa can hold down the ground game if he has to. This is a good matchup, trust me.

goblins: this matchup goes fifty/fifty. Suprisingly you are the beatdown in this matchup. lots of times goblins players don't realise this and so they trade swings with you and then they die. they play two power guys for three mana you play two power guys for one mana. You can and do beat them on tempo. mogg fanatic and gempalm incinerator however cause problems. post board you don't really get anything helpful and neither do they.

Solidarity: fity/fifty. Surprisingly you can race them. Post board you get legate and hidden gibbons which speed up your clock signifigantly. i'm not really afraid of this matchup but it is draw dependant.

Pikula: 60/40. You play guys, they struggle to keep up. you attack a lot, they take it up the ass. enough said.

Counter sliver: see threshold

Fish: see threshold

Conclusion:

I really like this deck and i feel like people don't give it enough credit. obviously it has bad matchups against decks like fairey stompy and truffle shuffle but all in all i think its pretty solid and worth taking a look at.

[Gocho]

What about the new Preying Kavu + Invigorate for a 2nd turn 5/5 creature?

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=64585
Preying Kavu - 1G
Creature - Kavu (UC)
Trample
Whenever an opponent gains life put that many +1/+1 counters on Preying Kavu.
2/2

Invigorate - 2G
Instant
If you control a Forest, you may have an opponent gain 3 life rather than pay Invigorate's mana cost.
Target creature gets +4/+4 until end of turn.


First Turn: Forest + ESG -> Preying Kavu
Second Turn: Swing with Kavu + Invigorate + Berserk -> 18/9 Trampling creature
Third Turn: Swing with your 5/5 kavu. Win :smile:

With Berserk you have a Third Turn Win. Without Berserk you have a 5/5 creature (and another 2/x one with your lonely forest). Your opponent has only 14 life :P

[Poron]

just a question.. this is a pure aggro-creature based-deck. What does this deck do that a goblin doesn't better?

[erdjinn]

What about the new Preying Kavu + Invigorate for a 2nd turn 5/5 creature?

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=64585
Preying Kavu - 1G
Creature - Kavu (UC)
Trample
Whenever an opponent gains life put that many +1/+1 counters on Preying Kavu.
2/2

Invigorate - 2G
Instant
If you control a Forest, you may have an opponent gain 3 life rather than pay Invigorate's mana cost.
Target creature gets +4/+4 until end of turn.


First Turn: Forest + ESG -> Preying Kavu
Second Turn: Swing with Kavu + Invigorate + Berserk -> 18/9 Trampling creature
Third Turn: Swing with your 5/5 kavu. Win :smile:

With Berserk you have a Third Turn Win. Without Berserk you have a 5/5 creature (and another 2/x one with your lonely forest). Your opponent has only 14 life :P

The combo is really nice but I have one question for the 3rd turn:
How can you attack with the Kavu after he died to Berserk? :confused:
Additional note: Invigorate costs 3 so you need another ESG turn 2.

[Blair Phoenix]

The combo is really nice but I have one question for the 3rd turn:
How can you attack with the Kavu after he died to Berserk? :confused:
Additional note: Invigorate costs 3 so you need another ESG turn 2.

...Invigorate's alternate cost?

You're right about the Kavu dying to berserk though

What do people think of Uktabi Drake in stompy?

[Gocho]

The combo is really nice but I have one question for the 3rd turn:
How can you attack with the Kavu after he died to Berserk? :confused:
Additional note: Invigorate costs 3 so you need another ESG turn 2.

:cry: You're right. Kavu died to Berserk... But without Berserk it's still a nice combo.

As Blair Phoenix says you need to use the Invigorate alternate cost. Then Kavu gets permanent +3/+3.
Without Berserk you have something like this:

First Turn: Forest + ESG -> Preying Kavu
Second Turn: Cast a 2/x creature. Swing with Kavu + Invigorate -> 9/9 Trampling creature. Opponent life=14.
Third Turn: Swing with your 5/5 kavu and your 2/x.
Forth Turn. Repeat. Win


First Turn: Forest -> 2/x creature
Second Turn: Forest -> Cast Kavu. Swing with 2/x + Invigorate -> 6/x creature. Opponent life=17.
Third Turn: Swing with your 5/5 kavu and your 2/x + Giant Growth/Bounty of the Hunt/Rancor.
Forth Turn. Repeat. Win

I think it must be tested a little. The combo could be cool.


What do people think of Uktabi Drake in stompy?

Stompy can't pay an Echo cost of 1GG. The critter it's cool, but you don't want that your creatures dies by himself.

[Alfred]

Kavu Predator seems to have good synergy with Swords to Plowshares. Has anyone considered adding that card to the deck?

[lukatron2]

I thought about making a white/green aggro deck with that dude and swords to plowshares and invigorate, but I think if you were to run white, the mana base would deffinately have to be more than 9-10 lands (because of wasteland and such). I would probably run like 14-16 lands and berserk too...

as for uktabi drake...I think he's terrible in this deck...you are rarely if ever going to pay the echo and he's only going to get in for 2 dmg...there are so many better options...I also run a creature in my build that doesn't stay around long (skyshroud ridgeback). he is kind of bad but with an ass of three he always gets in there withough being chump-blocked and usually always does 4+ dmg when out on the board.

I've noticed that not a lot of people here are in favor of berserk...personally I love the card in this deck and it's the card that gets me turn 2 wins occasionally and turn 3 wins VERY frequently (there are sooo many possablilties)...if you look past the fact that they cost like 30-60 bucks a peice, what does everyone think about berserk in stompy?

[Maldur Sven Vedukor]

:cry: You're right. Kavu died to Berserk... But without Berserk it's still a nice combo.

As Blair Phoenix says you need to use the Invigorate alternate cost. Then Kavu gets permanent +3/+3.
Without Berserk you have something like this:

First Turn: Forest + ESG -> Preying Kavu
Second Turn: Cast a 2/x creature. Swing with Kavu + Invigorate -> 9/9 Trampling creature. Opponent life=14.
Third Turn: Swing with your 5/5 kavu and your 2/x.
Forth Turn. Repeat. Win


First Turn: Forest -> 2/x creature
Second Turn: Forest -> Cast Kavu. Swing with 2/x + Invigorate -> 6/x creature. Opponent life=17.
Third Turn: Swing with your 5/5 kavu and your 2/x + Giant Growth/Bounty of the Hunt/Rancor.
Forth Turn. Repeat. Win

I think it must be tested a little. The combo could be cool.



Stompy can't pay an Echo cost of 1GG. The critter it's cool, but you don't want that your creatures dies by himself.


Well, my version is a W/G stompy.

// Lands
3 [A] Savannah
6 [5E] Forest (3)

// Creatures
4 [5E] Scryb Sprites
4 [WL] Rogue Elephant
3 [4E] Savannah Lions
3 [EX] Skyshroud Elite
4 [AL] Elvish Spirit Guide
2 [CHK] Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 [SC] Treetop Scout
4 [GP] Skarrgan Pit-Skulk

// Spells
4 [AL] Bounty of the Hunt
4 [TSP] Might of Old Krosa
4 [UL] Rancor
4 [MM] Land Grant
4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
4 [A] Berserk

// Sideboard
4 Tempting wurm
4 Root maze
4 Naturalize
4 Hidden gibbons
3 Winter orb

I've included StP, Isamaru and savannah lions in this version. I can use stp to kill meddling mages and some blocking creatures.

Also i have a mono green version:

// Lands
3 [A] Savannah
6 [5E] Forest (3)

// Creatures
4 [5E] Scryb Sprites
3 [WL] Rogue Elephant
3 [P1] Jungle Lion
3 [EX] Skyshroud Elite
4 [AL] Elvish Spirit Guide
3 [AN] Ghazban Ogre
4 [SC] Treetop Scout
4 [GP] Skarrgan Pit-Skulk

// Spells
4 [AL] Bounty of the Hunt
4 [TSP] Might of Old Krosa
4 [UL] Rancor
4 [MM] Land Grant
4 [WL] Briar Shield
4 [A] Berserk

// Sideboard
4 Tempting wurm
4 Root maze
4 Naturalize
4 Hidden gibbons
3 Winter orb

In both versions i've included 4 scryb sprites, 4 treetop scout and 4 skarrgan pit-skulk. These creatures have evasion, so in most cases all the damage is dealt to opponent.
I prefer the white version, since i can run some removal.

Also there's a R/G version. This version is the fastest.
Turn 1: Forest + ESG => Raging goblin + Bounty of the hunt + Invigorate + Berserk
Attack with a 16/8 raging goblin.
Also you have kird apes.

[Gocho]

Also there's a R/G version. This version is the fastest.
Turn 1: Forest + ESG => Raging goblin + Bounty of the hunt + Invigorate + Berserk
Attack with a 16/8 raging goblin.
Also you have kird apes.

If you play this you're dead.

Forest + ESG + Raging Goblin + Bounty + Green Card for alternate cost + Invigorate + Berserk =7 cards,
opponent has 7 life points and 7+1 cards.
you have one forest and 0 cards :cry:




In both versions i've included 4 scryb sprites, 4 treetop scout and 4 skarrgan pit-skulk. These creatures have evasion, so in most cases all the damage is dealt to opponent.
I prefer the white version, since i can run some removal.


I agree that 4 scryb sprites, 4 treetop scout and 4 skarrgan pit-skulk are a very good options playing with berserk, but don't you prefer Shilana Edgewalker over Treetop Scout?



I've included StP, Isamaru and savannah lions in this version. I can use stp to kill meddling mages and some blocking creatures.


I don't think that Isamaru + Savannah lions (5 of them) have a great Utopia Vow 1g
Enchantment - Aura

Enchant creature
Enchanted creature can't attack or block.
Enchanted creature has "{T}: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool."

advantage over 4 Jungle Lion + Another Green 2/x creature.
Do you think that only STP justify the white splash?

What do you think it's more dangerous? Meddling Mage or Blocking Creatures?
What about the new Planar Chaos green pacifism? It doesn't kill MM, but it does with blocking creatures and you can play it in the Monogreen Version.


Utopia Vow 1G
Enchantment - Aura

Enchant creature
Enchanted creature can't attack or block.
Enchanted creature has "{T}: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool."

[Gocho]

Sorry for the duplicated post

[Maldur Sven Vedukor]

If you play this you're dead.

Forest + ESG + Raging Goblin + Bounty + Green Card for alternate cost + Invigorate + Berserk =7 cards,
opponent has 7 life points and 7+1 cards.
you have one forest and 0 cards :cry:




I agree that 4 scryb sprites, 4 treetop scout and 4 skarrgan pit-skulk are a very good options playing with berserk, but don't you prefer Shilana Edgewalker over Treetop Scout?



I don't think that Isamaru + Savannah lions (5 of them) have a great Utopia Vow 1g
Enchantment - Aura

Enchant creature
Enchanted creature can't attack or block.
Enchanted creature has "{T}: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool."

advantage over 4 Jungle Lion + Another Green 2/x creature.
Do you think that only STP justify the white splash?

What do you think it's more dangerous? Meddling Mage or Blocking Creatures?
What about the new Planar Chaos green pacifism? It doesn't kill MM, but it does with blocking creatures and you can play it in the Monogreen Version.


Utopia Vow 1G
Enchantment - Aura

Enchant creature
Enchanted creature can't attack or block.
Enchanted creature has "{T}: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool."



I didn't choose the red version.
Yes, i prefer silhana ledgewalker.
StP does a great work against creatures, better than utopia vow, because it destroys them, and utopia vow doeesn't. Utopia vow can be disenchanted and it's casting cost is 3. But if you don't like the white splash, you don't need to play it.

[aisman132000]

@ Utopia vow

guys listen. Utopia vow? is that a joke? that card is a nice draft card but definetly not constructed playable.

@kavu predator +invigorate

I really don't see this as being worth it. kavu predator by itself is worse than any of the guys you are currently playing and invigorate by itself is worse than any of the pumps that you are playing. together they are a cute combo that will likely not win you the game. Stompy plays a lot of redundant creatures and pumps to keep it as consistant as possible. Adding kavu predator and invigorate will make it less consistant and imo worse.

@splashes

in general i have found splashes to be a bad idea and have tried to stay away from them as much as possible. while cool, they take away the consistancy of the deck and simply make you vulnerable to wasteland. If i were to play a color splash i would play red for kird ape and lightning bolt and cut bunty of the hunt and wild dogs.

What does everybody think of mire boa? he seems pretty good to me as you get to play essentially 8 river boas. I'm thinking of cutting rogue elephant for four of these and going twelve land by cutting the wild dogs for forests.

Creatures
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Jungle Lion
4 Quirion Ranger
4 River Boa
4 mire boa
4 Skarrgan Pit-skulk
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Vine Dryad

Enchantments
4 Rancor

Instants
4 Bounty Of The Hunt
4 Giant Growth

Sorceries
4 Land Grant

Basic Lands
12 Forest

Sideboard:
3 Winter Orb
4 Rushwood Legate
4 Hidden Gibbons
4 Naturalize

thoughts?

[lukatron2]

I think that 8 boa's is a terrible idea...while the land walk ability is nice, the card isn't that hot against removal most of the time. I used to play river boa but cut him due to his vulnerability to removal before you can regenerate him... lets say you play a turn 2 boa...opponent plays a mog finatic and pops him...you just wasted a turn...in this format, many decks have an answer for turn 1 lackey...now a turn 2 boa is nearly the same...if you can bring him out with 1 g open to regenerate him, then thats awsome...if not, he's too suseptable to removal with an ass of 1...

as for splashes, I agree that it is a bad Idea...but if you were to make a splash, you would deffinately have to up the land cound by at least 4-6 and cut boundy of the hunt and probably land grant...I think that red would be the most efficient splash due to a couple of cards..one being Taste for Mayhem. the other main one's being kird ape and lightning bolt. everyone knows this deck drops its hand fast. taste for mayhem gives you +4+0 for only R! on a silhana ledgewalker that is the house...

as for that w/g build...that looked pretty horrible and inconsistent in the mana base...i'm sure you with that mana base (3 plains) you would get mana screwed ALOT...and in the other build, with the savahnas, you could get waste raped with that low of a land count..also, I don't think the added cards justify a splash

[Maldur Sven Vedukor]

Well, this is my build:

// Lands
9 [5E] Forest (3)

// Creatures
2 [5E] Scryb Sprites
3 [NE] Skyshroud rdgeback
4 [WL] Rogue Elephant
4 [P1] Jungle Lion
4 [AL] Elvish Spirit Guide
4 [AN] Ghazban Ogre
4 [DIS] silhana ledgewalker
4 [GP] Skarrgan Pit-Skulk

// Spells
4 [AL] Bounty of the Hunt
4 [TSP] Might of Old Krosa
4 [UL] Rancor
4 [MM] Land Grant
4 [MI] Ivy Scent
4 [A] Berserk

// Sideboard
4 Root maze
4 Naturalize
4 Hidden gibbons
3 Winter orb

Thoughts?

[aisman132000]

scent of ivy is really bad. you empty your hand early so drawing one of these late in the game is a really, really bad. also why do you play savannah? you have zero white cards. furthermore your sb has 19 cards in it which last time i checked isn't legal.

@ mire boa/ river boa

it's true that if you play him turn 2 he usally bites it but i see him more as a late drop in this deck. later in the game he is valuable as a blocker and he can survive through deed. i can understand why you don't like him but honestly i think that boa> ledgewalker. while ledgewalker has its merits, late in the game it is an awful topdeck. considering that your going to be in topdeck mode a lot with this deck it seems like it isn't that useful. that's just my opinion though.

[lukatron2]

Well, this is my build:

// Lands
3 [A] Savannah
6 [5E] Forest (3)

// Creatures
2 [5E] Scryb Sprites
3 [NE] Skyshroud rdgeback
4 [WL] Rogue Elephant
4 [P1] Jungle Lion
4 [AL] Elvish Spirit Guide
4 [AN] Ghazban Ogre
4 [DIS] silhana ledgewalker
4 [GP] Skarrgan Pit-Skulk

// Spells
4 [AL] Bounty of the Hunt
4 [TSP] Might of Old Krosa
4 [UL] Rancor
4 [MM] Land Grant
4 [MI] Ivy Scent
4 [A] Berserk

// Sideboard
4 Tempting wurm
4 Root maze
4 Naturalize
4 Hidden gibbons
3 Winter orb

Thoughts?

ughhh..first of all, there are no white cards in your build so why would you ever run Savannah? doesn't make any sense. and if there WERE white cards and you did run savannah, 9 lands is WAY too few. because of wasteland and other ld, you would have to run at least 12-16 land if you want to splash a color...another thing, there is no card called Ivy Scent. If what you meant was Scent of Ivy, than that is still a terrible choice because this deck tends to dump its hand in the first couple of turns and if you top deck it late game and have no cards in hand, its dead. I would deffinately run giant growth over that or even seal of strength or briar sheild would do. another thing...your list is 62 cards which is sub-optimal (especially in a deck that only runs 9 land)...tempting worm seems like a bad choice as well. Although at first glance it looks like it would be sweet in the combo match-up, in all actuallity, allowing them to drop 1-2 extra lands could help them speed up their combo by an extra 1-2 turns (especially solidarity)...you're also missing 4 quirion ranger which is probably essential in a deck running only 9 land...your sideboard also had 19 cards in it but you are only allowed to have 15 so that would have to change...

the deck should probably look something more like this:

// Lands
9 [5E] Forest

// Creatures
4 quirion ranger
3 Skyshroud rdgeback (or Ghazban Ogre)
4 Rogue Elephant
4 Jungle Lion
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Skyshroud elite
4 silhana ledgewalker
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk

// other Spells
4 Land Grant
4 Bounty of the Hunt
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Rancor
4 Berserk

// Sideboard
4 Root maze
4 Naturalize
4 Hidden gibbons
3 Winter orb

@assman, I agree with you that boa is better mid-game to some extent but what if you draw 1-2 of them early game? you play him and he gets popped, and you wasted 2 mana for nothing. Ledgewalker is untargetable and usually unblockable and with a rancor or any other pump, he's a house...I'm not trying to hose your argument for boa, cause he is good too... I suppose it all comes down to your build...if you run berserk, I would run ledgewalker. Otherwise, I would probably run one of the boa's (probably mire because thresh isn't that hard of a match-up anyhow, and solidarity doesn't run creatures)...so in conclusion, were both right ;D

[Maldur Sven Vedukor]

My intention isn't to include savannah. It was a spelling error. These are forests.
And i'll not run quiron rangers. But that's for me. I prefer Ghazban ogre and skyshroud ridgeback.

[aisman132000]

please, please, please run quirion ranger. he is an auto include and one of the main reasons why you can get away with playing only 9 lands. tapping a land for mana, play a guy, return the land to your hand, replay, tap for mana again. Have you tested it? just asking cuz imo it is one of your key creatures.

@ luke

i have played with your build and i see what your saying about ledgewalker. With berserk and all the pump your playing it is pretty tight. But as you said in my build boa is better. I noticed that you have root maze in your sb instead of legate and i was wondering why? to you have a lot of combo in your meta? Legate has been fantastic for me out of the sb.

[lukatron2]

@aisman132000
Ohh yea sorry I didn't really clarify...the build I listed above wasn't actually my build but I just revised that guys build to make it better for him (just as a suggestion)...actually this is my build

Land
10 forest

sorceries
4 land grant

creatures
4 elvish spirit guide
4 rouge elephant
4 skyshroud elite
4 skyshroud ridgeback
4 quirion ranger
4 silhana ledgewalker (with rancor or anything, he wins LOTS of games)
2 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk


pump
4 berserk
4 rancor
4 might of old krosa
4 seal of strength
4 bounty of the hunt

sb
4 krosan grip/or naturalize
4 hidden gibbons
4 pithing needle
3 hail storm

the sb is interchangable...hail storm is a house against goblins but I actually switch it out from tourney to tourney (for winter orb or other things) cause I often times don't use it, and also because goblins is already an ok match-up and hail storm might be unnessicary...i'm actually thinking about cutting 2-4 of the pump spells for a couple of more creatures, and also I keep saying that I will cut skyshroud ridgeback when it screws me over bigtime, but this is my reasoning for him. lets say he was replaced in my deck with jungle lion...I attack and they chump block him or they remove him with a mog finatic...etc...ridgeback usually gets in 4+ dmg and can take out important creatures if you block with him and still sticks around just as long as jungle lion does...I might take him out though cause the fading thing pisses me off sometimes when I don't have a lot of other creatures...but then again, I usually just win before that happens...i've placed 2nd in the only 2 tourney's I've played this build in and i'm probably going to take it to another tourney soon but I just finished salvagers/game and I can't wait to play that...@ legate...I was never really impressed by him...I mean mabey i'm just crazy but he's only a 2/1...for some reason even though he's free and a decent tempo boost, I think there are better options than him...he's easily removed...I would actually run seedtime over him personally...but why do people insist on him so much? just wondering cause I never saw it...I think i'll bring him in the sb for a while and see how it works out...

[aisman132000]

@ leagate
imo rushwood legate is worth it for the tempo boost as it enables you to play six power worth of dudes on the first turn against blue decks

@ridgeback

two of these really should be pitskulks, pitskulk has unblockability which is huge because of all the pump you are playing. the other two should be jungle lions. fading is pretty bad dude. even if jungle lion can't block he sticks around at the very least.

your build is definetly different from mine but i'm willing to test it for sure. i'm glad you and i have shared success with this archatype as i feel as though it is underated.

[Kove]

I actually like Skyshroud Ridgeback in this deck, as I've found his "dead man walking"-aura aka fading mostly discouraging my opponents from doing anything against him, thinking that he'll die soon by himself - so they save their removal ... And usually take the damage he'll do. For that reason he has very nice synergy with Rancor imho.

Also, no build should imho be without 4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk. He's easily my favourite creature in this deck. At worst he's a 1/1 with evasion.

If I were to splash a color it'd have to be red. Song of Blood looks interesting. =)

[Gocho]

Has we can see all the builds are similar.

Manabase
8/9/10 Forest
4 Land Grant
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Quirion Ranger (optional, but a must have if you have 2cc creatures)

Pump
Choose 12/16 cards if you don't play Berserk.
Choose 16/20 if you play Berserk.

4 Bounty of Hound (must have)
4 Rancor (must have)
4 Giant Growth
4 Seal of Strenght
4 might of old krosa
4 Berserk
4 Invigorate (bad without de Kavu combo)

Creatures
Choose to complete 60 cards
4 Jungle Lion
4 rouge elephant
4 skyshroud elite
4 skyshroud ridgeback
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Treetop Scout
4 Scryb Spirits
4 Ghazban Ogre
4 Wild Dogs

(2cc)
4 silhana ledgewalker
4 River Boa
4 Preying Kavu

sideboard
Optionally you can put some cards for Sb cards to Main deck to make it more control and less aggro (Winter Orb, Hidden Gibbons, Naturalize)

krosan grip / naturalize / Sundering Vitae
hidden gibbons
pithing needle
hail storm / Sand Storm
Winter Orb
Tempting Wurm
Root Maze

Personally I'll include 9 Lands + Quirion Ranger for mana base and only 12 pump spells. Some questions. This left me 27 creature cards to complete the deck

Would you put Winter Orb or Hidden Gibbons in the Main Deck?
What creatures do you prefer?

Which game style do you think it's better?


aggro mode: Only 1cc creatures and all of them 2/x
evasion mode: Only evasion creatures (or mostly of them)
aggro-control mode: MD Winter orb and Hidden Gibbons to break the tempo of your opponent. River boa to block/regenerate.

[aisman132000]

@ kove

That is sort of my point. your opponent doesn't nessacarily have to deal with ridgeback and can save their removal for your other creatures. remember we play no reach so the only way we can win is through the combat phase. as long as our opponent can stabalize on one life they are safe. If this were a deck with a lot of burn i would agree with you that ridgeback could be good as 4 damage for 1 green seems effective. However, that is not the case.

@gocho

I would hardly consider my build (which by the way is not originally mine) to be agro control just because it plays river boa. Anyway i would include vine dryad to the list of possible creatures to play as it has been very good to me. Also i think hidden gibbons would be main deck material if it were not for the little green men. Winter orb on the other hand i think belongs in the sb.

[Gui]

I play mono G stompy a long time...
things to consider:
Don't play 4 rogue elefants... u can't deal with the mana screw even if u play 13 forests + 4 grant + 4 waste
IMO, silhana ledgewalker belongs to the deck better then boa, and so do Skarggan pit skulk, that's an awsome card. Silhana cant be target of swords, and skargan is a 2/2 w/o problems, that has awsome avoid.
Vine dryad and Bounty of the hunt can't be played together. NEVER.
Don't like quirion ranger ate the deck. in it's main base, it should be a 2-3 good creatures first turn to hit hard second. It can even hit first turn if u play vine dryad at oponent turn.

At last, i play Might of old Krosa and Wild might Main. it help a lot on hitting hard.

To think on: Combo decks get badly pushed by a chalice @ 0, especially first turn tendrils, so i would consider it side, as it's almost only hope at all... agaist it, krosan grip also do great, so they can't kill their creatures...

[Mordenkain]

Ive been testing stompy as of late, and i think its performing quite well. As said before, stompy isnt given then credit it deserves I think.

Also, I have to say I side with the Vine Dryad nay-sayers. I dont think removing a beater (and in some way the card the vine dryad replaces) is worth it for a 1 power creature. Also, you who say "Lackey". Well... Look at the deck. Name one deck with more 1 drops that are able to answer lackey?

Heres my list, its 61 cards btw.

// Lands
9 Forest

// Creatures
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Jungle Lion
4 Rogue Elephant
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Skyshroud Elite
3 Ghazban Ogre
3 River Boa
3 Skyshroud Ridgeback

// Spells
4 Rancor
4 Land Grant
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Giant Growth
3 Bounty of the Hunt

// Sideboard
SB: 4 Winter Orb
SB: 3 Oxidize
SB: 4 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 Rushwood Legate

Also, i dont play all the fancy "trying to control the board" cards. I play winter orb, but only in SB and it comes in against control.
Trying to make stompy do something that its not meant to do (controling) is a step backwards. Stompy is meant to stomp on the opponent, with fast mana efficient beaters.
You might also notice i play lots of pump. Well, in a agro meta like legacy, i think its important to have all that pump (esp. BoTH). Other creatures in legacy will outmatch most of yours, making it less desireable to attack cause of the blocking threat. But with pump you will get creatres that can kill enemy blockers. Also, pump servres like one shot beaters essentially, which also can save your critters and be sure to get through because of River Boa/Skarrgan Pit-Skulk.

My SB is for my meta. Combo decks mostly dont like Crypt. Rushwood as well comes in against thresh. Winter Orb against the slow control decks. Oxidize is still kinda untested, but i think it will be good against stax/raffinity/artifact-ish decks.

Just my 2 cents, roger and out, keep the stomping up.

- Mordenkain

[lukatron2]

first off, really solid list...a couple things...there is no reason that should be running 61 cards in your deck. I can think of some decks where it would be acceptable maybe to fit that one silver bullet or something, but you don't really have an exuse and running 61 cards is not optimal. you never see the pro's run 61 cards and i'm sure there's a good reason for it (consistency in card draw). Along with that, I don't see why you're having a hard time cutting the 61st card? just cut an ogre or a ridgeback. One more thing, bounty of the hunt is your most versatile pump spell and you should always run 4 in a stompy deck, period. that wouldn't be hard to find a slot for either. you could cut a different pump spell or just cut 1 ogre and 1 ridgeback than it would optimize your deck count and give you the extra boft. last thing, does your meta have challice of the void at all? if not, your good...if so, you should replace oxidize with krosan grip/naturalize. I'm not knocking your decklist or anything just trying to help from one stompy player to another...good luck man..

[Happy Gilmore]

Ledge Walker is so much better than River Boa it is sickening. He has evasion all the time and you never have to worry about your opponent swordzing in response to pump or Rancor. And Where are you Dryads? those things are nutzy. 1/3 with forest walk is soo good. and atleast gives you another creature that isn't hit by chalice for 1. Same goes for Oxidize, run Naturalize or Krosan Grip.

[adrieng]

As anyone thought of playing berserk+invigorate+kavu predator.
For people who doesn't know
kavu predator is a 2/2 for 1G which gets +1+1 whenever opponent gain life.
(he is nice against cards like exalted angel and hierarch loxodon on his own)
invigorate is +4 +4 for free and an opponent gain 3 life it has been played in stompy with berserk without kavu predator.
I really think it should be played.
All these cards are good on their own and can combo together.

[aisman132000]

@ ledgewalker/river boa

I really feel like this is a personal choice and depends on how much pump you run. If you run a lot of pump (16 plus) go with ledge walker. if not go with boa. I really feel as though boa is useful in more situations as he has evasion against some of the better decks in the format and he can chump block and regenerate. That's just my two cents.

@vine dryad

I really, really like this guy. Playing it at your opponents end of turn when they are on the play is really good. Your trying to play as many creatures as possible as fast as you can and this guy helps you do that. Even if he's only a 1/3 he can pick up a rancor or something and forestwalk is actually relevant in this format (somewhat) because of thresh. Usually when you play him you just pitch a elvish spirit guide or an extra land grant.

@Mordenkain

i looked at your sb and i noticed you weren't playing hidden gibbons. i just wanted to ask why not? they've been fantastic for me. There good against thresh, solidarity, fish, and burn (sorta). I would consider main decking them if it weren't for goblins being so rampant in the format.


What do you all think of gather courage? It's basicly a free pump spell all though it's only +2/+2.

[lukatron2]

What do you all think of gather courage? It's basicly a free pump spell all though it's only +2/+2.

I think its pretty useless...the only time the "free" ability is going to be relatively useful is if you are using it to save one of your dudes from an opponents burn spell or maybe if you are blocking one of their creatures...but if you think about it, when you're attacking the only time it would be good to play the "free" cost is when you play a creature that has summoning sickness and you tap it to pump one of your other creatures...otherwise, why would you tap one of your dudes when you can just attack with him instead...not saying the card is bad, but I think its free ability isnt really worth it...i mean personally id rather play invigorate if it came down to it.

[Eldariel]

The free-ability is also incredibly good if you have a Quirion Ranger in play. Anyhow, someone might remember me half-seriously working on a pseudocasual BG Stompy/False Cure-deck (stemming mostly from the fact that Skyshroud Cutter and Invigorate can both be played in Stompy with Berserk too). With the print of Kavu Predator, the deck might actually have something going on for it. Here's where I'm at now:

Lands
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Polluted Delta
4 Bayou
2 Overgrown Tomb

Creatures
4 Carnophage
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Skyshroud Cutter
2 Skyshroud Elite
3 Rogue Elephant
4 Kavu Predator
4 Sarcomancy

Spells
4 Lotus Petal
3 Bounty of the Hunt
3 Land Grant
4 Invigorate
4 Berserk
3 False Cure
4 Rancor


Land Grant is meh, I might rather just have more lands as I have no Ivy Dryads needing pitch and revealing hand sucks royally when playing rogue strategies. The landbase obviously hates Wasteland, especially Rogue Elephant, but often getting one turn of open mana is enough, and Ranger helps the issue too. But yea, black gives the False Cure which is crucial, and 2 very solid 2/2s in Sarcomancy and Carnophage, so meh.

[Cavius The Great]

The free-ability is also incredibly good if you have a Quirion Ranger in play. Anyhow, someone might remember me half-seriously working on a pseudocasual BG Stompy/False Cure-deck (stemming mostly from the fact that Skyshroud Cutter and Invigorate can both be played in Stompy with Berserk too). With the print of Kavu Predator, the deck might actually have something going on for it. Here's where I'm at now:

Lands
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Polluted Delta
4 Bayou
2 Overgrown Tomb

Creatures
4 Carnophage
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Skyshroud Cutter
2 Skyshroud Elite
3 Rogue Elephant
4 Kavu Predator
4 Sarcomancy

Spells
4 Lotus Petal
3 Bounty of the Hunt
3 Land Grant
4 Invigorate
4 Berserk
3 False Cure
4 Rancor


Land Grant is meh, I might rather just have more lands as I have no Ivy Dryads needing pitch and revealing hand sucks royally when playing rogue strategies. The landbase obviously hates Wasteland, especially Rogue Elephant, but often getting one turn of open mana is enough, and Ranger helps the issue too. But yea, black gives the False Cure which is crucial, and 2 very solid 2/2s in Sarcomancy and Carnophage, so meh.

Wow, are all my secrets coming out? I designed a Kavu Predator, Invigorate, Skyshroud Cutter, False Cure deck the very day the spoiler hit Gatherer. I guess great minds think alike, eh? :wink:

[Eldariel]

Wow, are all my secrets coming out? I designed a Kavu Predator, Invigorate, Skyshroud Cutter, False Cure deck the very day the spoiler hit Gatherer. I guess great minds think alike, eh? :wink:

Heh. The interesting part is that the plan can fit into many different shells. Midrange Rock-style approach would work too, but I want to investigate very specifically the Stompy-style approach it would enable. Unsurprisingly, Swords to Plowshares is a bitch when making 32/16 guys with False Cure in effect. Might want a bit more controlling build with Duresses and Cabal Therapies, but fitting all the fun stuff would be harder then :/

And yea, I built the first incarnation of False Cure/Stompy when Onslaught came out...of course the issue being that the deck was no good in Vintage so it lacked a format (I hadn't even heard about 1.5 back then, not until I found the wonders of online magic sites). Was one of the first things I tried in Legacy too until I noticed how damn bad the deck actually was (well, it wasn't really bad per ce, but it lacked tutors and won either through Stompy or False Cure, so it was really 2 different decks in the same shell, and when it drew a mix, it rolled over and died). Kavu Predator might actually make it decent. Oh, I even managed to play a pseudo-mirror on MWS. Of course my opponent drew all 4 of his Predators AND kept revealing lands with a Confidant while drawing alternate-cost spells :/ Oh well.

[Cavius The Great]

Heh. The interesting part is that the plan can fit into many different shells. Midrange Rock-style approach would work too, but I want to investigate very specifically the Stompy-style approach it would enable. Unsurprisingly, Swords to Plowshares is a bitch when making 32/16 guys with False Cure in effect. Might want a bit more controlling build with Duresses and Cabal Therapies, but fitting all the fun stuff would be harder then :/

And yea, I built the first incarnation of False Cure/Stompy when Onslaught came out...of course the issue being that the deck was no good in Vintage so it lacked a format (I hadn't even heard about 1.5 back then, not until I found the wonders of online magic sites). Was one of the first things I tried in Legacy too until I noticed how damn bad the deck actually was (well, it wasn't really bad per ce, but it lacked tutors and won either through Stompy or False Cure, so it was really 2 different decks in the same shell, and when it drew a mix, it rolled over and died). Kavu Predator might actually make it decent. Oh, I even managed to play a pseudo-mirror on MWS. Of course my opponent drew all 4 of his Predators AND kept revealing lands with a Confidant while drawing alternate-cost spells :/ Oh well.

My decklist is a little different from yours. I run 8 Worldly Tutor effects to cast a Kavu Predator. 4 Worldly Tutors and 4 Sylvan tutors from Portal. My approach is more combo than anything else because of the 8 tutors and 4 false cures and 4 berserks. The decks are very similiar nevertheless. both decks aim at killing your opponent by the third turn, atleast mine does.

[Eldariel]

Yea, they're probably similar. I sway away from the pure combo approach, since I know there're simply better pure combo-decks in the format, so if I want the deck to actually have a place, it'll have to have some other selling points, one of which might as well be the classic Stompy-beatdown, which kills lots of people fast just fine even without all the combolicious cuteness. But yea, comboing off is pretty damn sweet when fitting the 'combo' to the deck takes whole whopping ~8 slots. And Invigorate-Berserk-Berserk has to be one of the most amusing plays ever, resulting in generally 24/6 creature with opponent at 23.

[Mordenkain]

As I said before, I think trying to force the deck to "combo" without it being a combo deck, is a really bad idea.
If you want a "free pump + beserk"-combo deck, then design that, start a new thread in N&D, but this were discussing here is good old "make your face flat" mono green in your face stompy deck.



Ledge Walker is so much better than River Boa it is sickening. He has evasion all the time and you never have to worry about your opponent swordzing in response to pump or Rancor. And Where are you Dryads? those things are nutzy. 1/3 with forest walk is soo good. and atleast gives you another creature that isn't hit by chalice for 1. Same goes for Oxidize, run Naturalize or Krosan Grip.


Vine Dryad is bad imo. Im not gonna start the whole "to drayd or not to dryad"-argument, but personally I really dont like it. Giving up another threat for a 1/3, instant or not, is really... Sucky. Sorry to say but thats my oppinion.

Chalice is next to non-existent in my meta, which is also why I can get away at playing such a deck. If my meta featured Chalices, I would not dare to run this deck. I wouldnt have the balls i think.

Anyways, your point about ledgewalkers is interesting. With all the pump, I see your point of having an unblockable/unswordsable pump target, although its a 1/1 for 1G. I think ill try it out. I never really have the mana for regeneration, which also when you think about it, is a quality that a pure stompy creature shouldnt need. Basicly River Boa is a 2/1 with evasion against some targets. I can see the point of having a 1/1 with evasion against all and being unswordsable.
Good point, testing will show.



i looked at your sb and i noticed you weren't playing hidden gibbons. i just wanted to ask why not? they've been fantastic for me. There good against thresh, solidarity, fish, and burn (sorta). I would consider main decking them if it weren't for goblins being so rampant in the format.

I know im missing them. I know. But the crypt have been taking their space lately as I really like to rape combo decks with it. But I could maybe try to trade Oxidize for Gibbons.



first off, really solid list...a couple things...there is no reason that should be running 61 cards in your deck. I can think of some decks where it would be acceptable maybe to fit that one silver bullet or something, but you don't really have an exuse and running 61 cards is not optimal. you never see the pro's run 61 cards and i'm sure there's a good reason for it (consistency in card draw). Along with that, I don't see why you're having a hard time cutting the 61st card? just cut an ogre or a ridgeback. One more thing, bounty of the hunt is your most versatile pump spell and you should always run 4 in a stompy deck, period. that wouldn't be hard to find a slot for either. you could cut a different pump spell or just cut 1 ogre and 1 ridgeback than it would optimize your deck count and give you the extra boft.


/dontagree
I have no problem of running 61 cards, and the reason for it is that im against running anything (if not for a very good reason) as a 2-of. I wanted to add the third BoTH to the deck, and couldnt find anything I wanted to cut. Cutting beaters for pump is bad. Beaters > Pump, but pump as I said, is also important. Also, I dont like playing BoTH as a 4-of, cause in a deck without any card drawing/advantage generation, 2 for 1-ing yourself is bad, although BoTH's strenght kinda makes up for it, but I hate pitching cards so playing 4 of them I dont like. Some people do, some dont. Stompy is actually a deck with a lot of flexibility in it, as it can incorporate all kinds of low cc beaters/pump, which makes it a matter of preference how to contruct your deck. This is also the reason I think that the "best" build cannot be optained with stompy. The best deck for each meta can be optained, but not a general best list.

Well, that will be all for now... Damn, i need to learn to write shorter posts =/
Over and out and keep stomping face out there.

- Mordenkain

[lukatron2]

this is directed at those guys talking about false cure blah blah blach etc...could you guys please make a new thread for your deck and not post about it in here...this thread is for mono-green stompy...thanks



/dontagree
I have no problem of running 61 cards, and the reason for it is that im against running anything (if not for a very good reason) as a 2-of.


I can see where you're coming from, but you see, letting your personal pet peeves get in the way is a good way to make your list un-optimal deck list...it seems like you're just using that as an exuse...if you really wanted to run 60 cards, you could simply cut the ogres, add 1 BOTH, and 1 skyshroud ridgeback...I'm not saying its going to make a big difference, run 61 cards if you really want to that bad, but why do you think none of the pros or tournament winning decks run 61 cards? cause 60 is better...



Also, I dont like playing BoTH as a 4-of, cause in a deck without any card drawing/advantage generation, 2 for 1-ing yourself is bad, although BoTH's strenght kinda makes up for it, but I hate pitching cards so playing 4 of them I dont like.


I think 99% of all stompy players would disagree with you here...while you do pitch an extra card, often times it is a land grant, or something that you don't really need at the time, and while it doesn't look like it, if you think about it, it IS card advantage in the sense that you can trade BoTH and the card you pitched to 1) save your creatures from opponents or b) save your creatures from mass removal (ever heard of a card called pyroclasm?...BoTH makes you laugh in its face). BoTH is the most versatile pump spell in this deck and I would say it would be the LAST pump spell that you want to cut down to a 3 of (along with rancor)....

[Gui]

First, sorry you all for creating another Mono Green Stompy topic. It was my intention to discuss more the possibilities of making it a Competitive deck.

Second, here's the decklist i suported on the other topic, already reformulated
// Lands
6 Forest
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath

// Creatures
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
2 Rogue Elephant
4 Vine Dryad
3 Scryb Sprites
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Ghazban Ogre
3 Pouncing Jaguar

// Spells
4 Rancor
4 Land Grant
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Wild Might

// Sideboard
SB: 3 Naturalize
SB: 2 City of Solitude
SB: 3 Chalice of the Void
SB: 2 Winter Orb
SB: 3 Root Maze
SB: 2 Troll Ascetic

Any questions, comments and controverses, may ask, as it will increase the discussion ^^

Third, but not worthless, fell free to feat anything you like most then the cards i've chosen, cos there is much of personal preference on the Stompies, and i got better results with that one...

gl & hf

Gui

[DarkAkuma]

While I dont agree with some of your card choices, I do have to applaud you for atleast trying to evole Stompy and try some new ideas, unlike most people around here that shoot any new idea strait down while also playing bad cards dissmissed years ago claiming there "must haves".

Anyway, i myself have thought about tuneing up the land count from 9/10 to maybe 13/14, so Stompy can afford to run a few higher casting cost creatures. 1cc Stompy has so few options, theres just not enough room for variation. With 13 land like your deck, you might be able to get away with a couple more 2cc creatures, like 2 Boas, or a mixtures of 3 boas and 3 ledgewalkers. Hell, maybe even try playing the 2 sideboard trolls main.

I would recamend getting some jungle lions, and getting rid of the Pounching Jaguars and rogue elephants (i recently stoped playing rogue, and i like my stompy deck SOOO much more now), they just slow you down more then thier worth.

Ill be playing somewhat more traditonal build of 9LS at a City Champs tourney this week, then ill post my deck list. But in a little while i might post a un-traditional list ive been thinking about.

[aisman132000]

@ Brasil

I guess if your trying to take stompy in a new direction that's fine but i really have to question some of your card choices. Pouncing Jaguar is pretty awful and is a major tempo loss if your opponent bolts or swords it during your turn (after you pay the echo). Also scryb sprites is just bad. I know it has flying but its a 1/1 that isn't a real threat by itself, how about jungle lion instead? also I see your playing 12 land why only 2 rogue elephants? you can support 4. Also fetchlands are anti-synergistic with ghazban ogre, they should probably be just forests. is wild might really better than giant growth?

as a gut reaction i don't like going to twelve land but i guess it should be tested first. What do people think about adding wasteland?

[Gui]

@ Darkakuma
Thanks man ^^.
I agree with you on the elephants there, and i'm trying to find a jungle lion in here... xD
I've been testing lists long time... i've tryed from 6L + petal to 13L+waste, and i prefer this one better... It's more a matter of trying them out ^^
@ Aisman 132000
About the fatchlands, thats true... even if i keep in at hand for turn 2, it's true... ghazban by itself is hard to be played because of the burn frequency, but it can be played toguether...
Bout the jaguar, it can be Lion, yes. The problem is that here im brasil i got no access to it (Portal never was sold here in brasil), and a 2/2 creature don't die to a 1/1 first strike... but i can say that it never made me losing tempo, and it can be quite as fast...
About the rogues, it's hard to suport for rogues even if you play 13 lands, as the list by herzog i posted on the other topic... it's much more tempo loss if u lose a rogue with another on hand then if u loose a jaguar for eg.
About the wild might and Krosa
You should try wild might by yourself. It's insane. Every single time. It makes great dmg and enable a free from burn ghazban, cos no red deck can be faster than 2 mana 5 dmg... I like em a lot, i got really good results with it.
Scryb Sprites is better then it looks like... sure it isn't a tread by itself, but a krosa or a rancor on it is awsome... but if there are no much creatures on your meta, maybe u can try jungle instead of it... it makes little dif in the end.

I've tested wasteland and it's very nice on the deck, but sometimes it was needed to be a color mana generator, and sometimes you need the mana, so you won't play it and activate it... i like more the speed with the all collors... if you wanna check out, there is tath other list from Nicolai Herzog that actually featured 13 forest and 4 wastelands together... i got nice results with it while i was trying to get a better list... Sure that list has no jungle that could be added because it's some old...
I found in my tests that using 12 forest instead of 9 and using 3 or 2 rogue was way better for the deck then trying 9 with 4 rogues... but it can be used if you are a good card dealer, u'll never get 2 rogues on a hand xD
Probably if you wanna usa more rogues and jungle lion, i would suggest to use:
+1 rogue
+4 Jungle Lion
-2 Jaguar
-3 Scryb Sprites

even so, i like sprites for it's evasion better, and it helps playing skarg as 2/2 second turn, while i can use Krosa and wild, wich means more dmg so manny times.

[lukatron2]

First, sorry you all for creating another Mono Green Stompy topic. It was my intention to discuss more the possibilities of making it a Competitive deck.

Second, here's the decklist i suported on the other topic, already reformulated
// Lands
6 Forest
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath

// Creatures
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
2 Rogue Elephant
4 Vine Dryad
3 Scryb Sprites
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Ghazban Ogre
3 Pouncing Jaguar

// Spells
4 Rancor
4 Land Grant
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Wild Might

// Sideboard
SB: 3 Naturalize
SB: 2 City of Solitude
SB: 3 Chalice of the Void
SB: 2 Winter Orb
SB: 3 Root Maze
SB: 2 Troll Ascetic

Any questions, comments and controverses, may ask, as it will increase the discussion ^^

Third, but not worthless, fell free to feat anything you like most then the cards i've chosen, cos there is much of personal preference on the Stompies, and i got better results with that one...

gl & hf

Gui

your refined list looks a lot better than your previous one...I'd have to agree with aisman on the sprites and the jaguar...don't get me wrong, a 2/2 for g is AWSOME, but do you ever run into the situation where instead of paying the echo, you could have just played 2 more creatures instead of one echo and one creature? seems like it would be better for putting pressure on the opponent...I can see how wild might is really good, its a LOT of dmg...one question I had was do you ever get into the late game and then your opponent pays the 2?...I can also see why you don't like rouge elephant if you're not playing quirion rangers...I never really liked ranger myself but my philophy on him was that he acts as your second landrop each turn if you are stuck on one forest...so you are able to run fewer lands...but if I was running your list I don't think id run him either cause you probably never run into mana screw very often ehh?...last comment...you should seriously try running Bounty of The Hunt man...not just for the extra dmg, but it can save your whole army in certain instances (pyroclasm), or if your opponent has a bunch of 2/2 goblins and they block, you just give three of your dudes +1+1

just for reference, I actually used to run a way different stompy build with no rogue elephants, no rangers, and 12 lands. It was aggressive but it sacrificed the turn 2-3 wins for a more stable mid-game/ better creatures...People used to knock it all the time and say how horrible it was...I would do really well with it at our local tournament but would usually loose to goblins. this was before jungle lion was legal and also before I discovered that Hail Storm is actually a pretty good card against gobs...The list for reference

Land
12 forest

Creatures
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Silhana Ledgewalker (could be mire boa or river boa)
4 troll ascetic
4 Llawnwar elves
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

Other spells
4 Land Grant
4 Bounty of The Hunt
4 Berserk
4 Briar shield
4 Rancor
4 Seal of Strength

I don't remember the Sb really but the deck basically runs creatures that are more resiliant to removal and can give you more of a late game...a turn 2 troll ascetic is another likable feature of the deck...While not optimal for turn 2-4 kills, the nice part about the deck is that if you have pump/Berserk it is pretty much an auto win if you use it on a Ledgewalker or Troll (if you're not playing against control).

[TsumiBand]

With the additional Spirit Guide coming out, does an RG build have any more appeal than it did a month ago? It seems that you run the risk of running too many Guides; a 3/3 split might be the best place to start. Consider that, in addition to getting extra ESGs, you also gain access to Kird Ape beats, Jackal Pup (!!meh!! but a 2/1 for R), good burn, and potentially Scab-Clan Mauler; I might be way off base here but Mauler looks at least as good as the Ledgewalker. At any rate it serves as another potential candidate for replacing River Boa. I think with the right manabase Rogue Elephant doesn't have to wreck us either if we go the RG route.

[Gui]

your refined list looks a lot better than your previous one...I'd have to agree with aisman on the sprites and the jaguar...don't get me wrong, a 2/2 for g is AWSOME, but do you ever run into the situation where instead of paying the echo, you could have just played 2 more creatures instead of one echo and one creature? seems like it would be better for putting pressure on the opponent...I can see how wild might is really good, its a LOT of dmg...one question I had was do you ever get into the late game and then your opponent pays the 2?...I can also see why you don't like rouge elephant if you're not playing quirion dryads...I never really liked dryad myself but my philophy on him was that he acts as your second landrop each turn if you are stuck on one forest...so you are able to run fewer lands...but if I was running your list I don't think id run him either cause you probably never run into mana screw very often ehh?...last comment...you should seriously try running Bounty of The Hunt man...not just for the extra dmg, but it can save your whole army in certain instances (pyroclasm), or if your opponent has a bunch of 2/2 goblins and they block, you just give three of your dudes +1+1

k... about the BotH, it's the natural substitute of Vine dryad, as you can't play both. It's a mod on the deck to be tested further... I kind prefer Dryad against goblins because it can and will prevent lackey, because it always atks before then and because it's a /3 creature. You are right about clasm, it pisses. Both cards, hunt and dryad, are good against it, but hunt seens a lot better... maybe it can also be a side when you play dryad, and are to match manny clasms... even so, it seens to me that clasm is the only ciscunstance to play hunt over dryad, or over might... And yet, i can't play both dryad and hunt, just no way it work out, even if i remove one for the other, i would probably remove hunt for dryad every single time, cos it's way faster.
Yeah i've played games that the player actually could pay the (2), but most probable is that if he has (2) to spend that way, he is not fast enough to beat you anyway... it's hard to compare that with hunt or growth, because manny times i also needed a might and got a growth, that would not be able to kill, as the opp had 7 life...
I like quirion ranger (guess when u said dryad, u mean ranger, right?), but it doesn't seens a fit here, imo. it's slower than playing 2 2/x creatures in game, and i prefer 2 2/2 then a 3/3 + a 1/1, actually, cos it's easy to get rid of 1 creature only... even so, u can play 3 rogues on my deck same way as with dryad, but even so, i think 4 at a 9 land is way to much... you can't play 2 on a game almost never... probably u would have to remove it for bounty to make it worth, and that why players play land grant anyway...

----------------Editing to avoid Double Post---------------------
I wanna your opinion on some sideboards possibilities on the MGA Stompy decks, that can actually be used on every single version of it. Since Combo is far the worse matchup, it's kind of main priority
i've been testing those:

City of Solitude, thats usefull agains counters, high tides and some other matches
Winter Orb, together with Root Maze, that can crash 43lands, and give you valuable time against combo.
Chalice of the void, that crashes LED based combos,as well as avoiding petals and moxes.
Naturalize, which is one of the best green sideboards ever made, as well as Krosan grip
Troll Ascetic - speaks by itself, leading to an almost certain victory against burn
Wasteland, that's probably the most used non basic land card in legacy.
Cursed Totem - Ends hostile creature habilities

So, what's best?

One of my prefered:
SB: 2 Naturalize
SB: 3 Chalice of the void
SB: 4 Root Maze
SB: 4 Winter Orb
SB: 2 Troll Ascetic

[lukatron2]

(guess when u said dryad, u mean ranger, right?) yea I did...oops, I fixed it...lol...


(
----------------Editing to avoid Double Post---------------------
I wanna your opinion on some sideboards possibilities on the MGA Stompy decks, that can actually be used on every single version of it. Since Combo is far the worse matchup, it's kind of main priority
i've been testing those:

City of Solitude, thats usefull agains counters, high tides and some other matches
Winter Orb, together with Root Maze, that can crash 43lands, and give you valuable time against combo.
Chalice of the void, that crashes LED based combos,as well as avoiding petals and moxes.
Naturalize, which is one of the best green sideboards ever made, as well as Krosan grip
Troll Ascetic - speaks by itself, leading to an almost certain victory against burn
Wasteland, that's probably the most used non basic land card in legacy.
Cursed Totem - Ends hostile creature habilities

So, what's best?

One of my prefered:
SB: 2 Naturalize
SB: 3 Chalice of the void
SB: 4 Root Maze
SB: 4 Winter Orb
SB: 2 Troll Ascetic

Heres the thing about challice...I LOVE that card and it IS very viable against Iggy-pop, TES, Salvagers Game etc...the only thing is, its useless against hight tide which is probably the most played/best combo deck in the format right now...BUT...The thing is, this deck is about 50/50 with solidarity as solidarity has to go off turn 4+, so if you're worried about LED based combo, go ahead and run challice. the one thing I must add though is this...Iggy pop and TES don't nessicarily NEED LED to go off, but most likely it will bide you enough time to seal the win...

Ok, lets look at the best SB choices we have available

-Hidden Gibbons
-Hidden Guerillas
-Hidden herd
-Ichneumon Druid
-Seedtime
-Naturalize
-Krosan Grip (I like this one better)
-Root maze (slows their tempo)
-Winter orb
-Null rod
-Pithing Needle
-Hail Storm (Goblins)
-Sand storm (Goblins)
-Rushwood Legate
-Cursed totem

Ok now...I think a mandatory 2-4 slots for Krosan Grip/Naturalize is needed...after that, its kind of a meta call...I used to HATE Rushwood Legate cause he's only a 2/1, but then I realized that he's a HUGE tempo boost against solidarity and threshold and started liking him more...I say that pithing needle is a STRONG card...it stops cards that wreck you like Pernicious Deed...against affinity it stops half their deck...it names Equiptment against Angel Stompy etc... and its an all around good hoser card to play...If blue is played in your meta, run hidden gibbons/rushwood legate...when I'm building my SB for stompy, I like to make it well rounded so that I have something for most of my match up's...

Sb:
4 Krosan Grip
4 Hidden Gibbons
4 Pithing needle
3 Hail storm (I know it seems bad but it can single handedly win games for you against gobs and some other aggro decks)

swap it around all you want to but thats my SB for an unknown meta...the only other thing the needles could be Rushwood Legate instead..

[emidln]

What does Stompy gain by staying mono-colored? With Berserk and the available pump, you should easily goldfish by turn 3 against Combo, and splashing for black off fetches/land grants gives you Dark Confidant and Duress/Therapy/infy other cards to slightly disrupt combo while you race them.

[Gui]

The point on using chalice is that you can make gather lot of time to kill LED combos, and sometimes it's the only thing that can actually sabe you from them... the other point is that it's free costed, so you can play your creatures and it all at the same time...
hail storm seens to kill manny of our creatures to gather some beneficts, eve so, it's great call against gobs... but goblins should not be a real problem to mga stompy, isn't it?
I mean, your list can side against them, but not against solidarity, that can kill you before you make your second strike on him... and even if you run berserk, they can fow you and make your day lot worse...
IMO Root maze and winter orb are best against most combos, cos they can win the game for you... krosan grip and/or naturalize (my preference on naturalize is cost, in grip is that it's damn way better) should be always on side, since you can side it in almost every game, and it helps against Aggro hate cards like jitte's...
So, i can side agains my worse matchups with cards that can win the game for me... Hidden gibbons is great, and can be sided very often, against burns and stuff, and can accel you against combos... it deserves a place side, but can't wind the game... maybe it should be main deck...

[Gui]

What does Stompy gain by staying mono-colored? With Berserk and the available pump, you should easily goldfish by turn 3 against Combo, and splashing for black off fetches/land grants gives you Dark Confidant and Duress/Therapy/infy other cards to slightly disrupt combo while you race them.

If i was to splash to black, i should play the 4 confidants, and the side choices would be lot easier: Duress+Therapy

It seens like a perfect fit to me!

[Clark Kant]

I have what seems like a really good idea.

Why doesn't Stompy run 4 Urza's Bauble and 4 Mishra's Bauble. If none of the cards cut are great turn one plays, this would lead to excellent plays both turn one and turn two.

Below are the absolutely best cards in Stompy...

Enchantments
4 Rancor

Instants
4 Bounty Of The Hunt/Giant Growth
4 Might of Old Krosa

Sorceries
4 Land Grant

Basic Lands
9 Forest

Creatures
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Ghazban Ogre
4 Jungle Lion
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Skarrgan Pit-skulk
4 Skyshroud Elite/Hidden Gibbons
3 Rogue Elephant

That leaves behind 8 slots that are usually filled out with cards that are force you to expend many resources to cast and usually have low power for the amount of mana they cost...

Usually...
4 River Boa/Silhana Ledgewalker
4 Vine Dryad

These 8 Cards, or some other cards that you like even less could be swapped out for 4 Urza's Bauble and 4 Mishra's Bauble.

[Gui]

i like best skyshroud elite then gibbons, and silhana over boa... vine can't bee played together with bounty... that seens like a standard build to me... i like more the G/B version of Stompy, running 9~12 lands, but using confidant, that's kind insane in the deck...

[DarkAkuma]

I couldnt get mws runing on my new install yet, so havent made that new deck idea. But today i played 9LS at a City Champs tourney and split top 2.

Heres the list i was running.

// Lands
9 [UG] Forest

// Creatures
4 [AL] Elvish Spirit Guide
4 [PT] Jungle Lion
4 [VI] Quirion Ranger
2 [VI] River Boa
4 [GP] Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 [EX] Skyshroud Elite
4 [MM] Vine Dryad
2 [MM] Rushwood Legate
3 [GP] Silhana Ledgewalker

// Spells
2 [WL] Briar Shield
4 [B] Giant Growth
4 [MM] Land Grant
4 [UL] Rancor
4 [RAV] Sundering Vitae
2 [AL] Bounty of the Hunt

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [MM] Rushwood Legate
SB: 4 [B] Winter Orb
SB: 3 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [MI] Sandstorm

My normal metagame has TONS of islands, and the legates rule there, but this one today didnt have many (I didnt face one island) so in hindsight i would change those out for another creature. And i still absolutely hate BotH, so dont tell me they should be a 4 of, cause its amazeing i was even playing 2. Ledgewalkers were a last minute addition, and they ruled today.

[Clark Kant]

So no one has any input on the idea I just posted of replacing the two weakest creatures/pump in the deck with...

4 Urza's Bauble
4 Mishra's Bauble



I also really like the suggestions some of you guys have made of splashing black.

Yes, Red offers Kird Ape

But Black offers...
4 Sarcomancy
4 Carnophage
4 Dark Confidant

all of which are just as good or better than the best creatures that 9 Land Stompy currently runs.

[DarkAkuma]

I tried a black splash a few months ago for Confidant, and sadly it just felt un-nessacery. I think more change would need to happen with the deck in order to make the black splash worth it.

I thought about baubles but havent tried them yet. They would let you not have to deal with running a couple less the optimal creatures, and they might even make running mongoose/wearbear possable. But fetchs might be needed for those too. The main problems with baubles that i can see, are they they might slow stompy down. Every now and then, 9LS dumps its hand 0-1st turn for for about 2-3 threats. With baubles the 2nd-3rd threat will have to wait till next turn. Also with 0 turn dryad you will be faced more with haveing to pitch a better card and hope of ripping someing with the bauble next turn. Then theres the fact that theres few instants in 9LS, to realy take advantage of the baubles. Just Dryads, growth, and BotH (if you play it). On the other hand, the slight deck manipulation from Mishras + Land Grant/fetch might be nice. And playing against discard might be a little more fun.

Its a toss up i guess. At the very least baubles deserve a little testing. Nothing wrong with a change of pace every now and then.

Thats all i can think of right now, just woke up.

[Gui]

Actually, the thing most impressive in black splash is that it can run black 2/2 creatures that a re better then green ones and it can run duress and therapy as side... they are best side options, as green has not enough side options.
/
---= EDIT =---
\
My New updated list, running black stuff for more consistancy and acceleration:

// Lands
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bayou

// Creatures
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Vine Dryad
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Dark Confidant
4 Carnophage

// Spells
4 Rancor
4 Land Grant
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Wild Might
4 Duress
4 Lotus Petal

// Sideboard
SB: 4 Naturalize
SB: 4 Cabal Therapy
SB: 3 Troll Ascetic
SB: 4 Terror

[Gui]

So, the black deck, as edited previous message, was a lot more consistant by runnig duress maindeck, to avoid manny harmfull things, as pyroclasm, stp and stuff, and by using more 2/2 creatures, as carnophage, it's slightly faster, together with dark confidant.

[aisman132000]

i'm against all color splashes in stompy. I really don't think they tilt your problem matchups very much. in addition they make you less consistant and vulnerable to wasteland.

[Gui]

i disagree with the less consistancy, and with the bad matchups... actually, duress is outstanding against combo and so is therapy, and against other aggro matchups, confidant is great too. bout the wasteland, the won't have the speed they need to beat you, even if the use the waste to slow you down, as you still will have the creatures and the other sources... IMO Gb stompy is the best build for stompy

[aisman132000]

your solidarity matchup is actually already decent as legate and hidden gibbons out of the board let you race them. duress imo won't do much and carnophage is hardly nessecary. Also getting one of your lands killed via waste land will make a difference expecially since you play only eight lands. in nine land a lot of the time i only had one, maybe two lands. if i lossed one of those to wasteland i feel like it really would hurt me. Do you have new matchup precentages to back up your claim that G/b is in fact better than just plain old green? ALso troll looks really out of place in your board. I mean do you have enough mana to make it work? what about river boa instead? that seems better.

[Gui]

your solidarity matchup is actually already decent as legate and hidden gibbons out of the board let you race them. duress imo won't do much and carnophage is hardly nessecary. Also getting one of your lands killed via waste land will make a difference expecially since you play only eight lands. in nine land a lot of the time i only had one, maybe two lands. if i lossed one of those to wasteland i feel like it really would hurt me. Do you have new matchup precentages to back up your claim that G/b is in fact better than just plain old green? ALso troll looks really out of place in your board. I mean do you have enough mana to make it work? what about river boa instead? that seems better.

Well, i'm going to make some more serious tests on it, and bring a percentage with the hard and the easier matchups, so i can't say by now that it's better with the percentages...
about the solidarity matchup, duress seens fine to me, and so do therapy... dark confidant bringing you a lot more cards also's great helping you to be faster them him... i've beaten solidarity already with this build, but had played only that time...
The troll in the board is more like against some decks that if you are able to play him, you almost won already... the main dif in this 8-land is that it run 4 petal, so you can play well with that... and with confidant, almost every match, i get 2~3 lands.
i'll post futher results in here asap.
[]'s

[Clark Kant]

One card that I'm curious about is Hidden Gibbons mainboard. Since I seem it to side it in against so many decks.

I've repeatedly, again and again found that 9 lands, 4 Rogue Elephant and 2cc cards have horrible synergy together. So I definately side in against running 2cc cards. In addition, the threats available to this deck have gotten far better in the past few sets, and with that, I've found that cards that required me to discard one of them, ie. Bounty and Dryad, as often liabilities as they are boons.

My favorite new card is Street Wriath.

Here's my build....

Creatures
4 Street Wraith
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Jungle Lion
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Rogue Elephant
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Vine Dryad - Few threats I want to discard to this. Maybe replaced by Skyshroud Ridgeback.
3 Ghazban Ogre - Horrid synergy with Street Wraith.

Spells
4 Briar Shield
4 Land Grant
4 Might of Old Krosa

Enchantments
4 Rancor

Lands
9 Forest

[Vimes]

If you're running Street Wraith already, what's the point of running Land Grant over fetchlands? Both cards effectively do the same thing, but Land Grant lets your opponent take a look at your hand while fetchlands only take one life. The only two reasons to run Land Grant are storm and cards like Ghazban Ogre, and if you're already playing Street Wraith, then neither of those apply.

[Clark Kant]

Actually, the biggest reason for land grant is that you can discard it to vine dryad or bounty if you already have a forest and a ranger in hand.

If I end up cutting vine dryad at some point, I'll consider replacing land grant.

[Amber VII]

Hi. I’m new to the Source. I’ve come here seeking help to build a budget Stompy deck. I use to play Magic a few years ago and recently came back. A lot has changed, and I’m still getting use to it all.

The decklist I’ve been working on is listed below, but first I want to give you a short background of the local meta. Over here in Los Angeles it seems like everyone is playing high priced combo decks. I kid you not; over 50% of our meta is dominated by combo or control decks. TES/TEPS, IGGy Pop, and Solidarity are particularly prevalent. Landstill rounds out control. Goblins, Affinity, and others make up the rest. I hate combo decks with a passion and I hate people who break spend hundreds trying to building them.

From my limited knowledge of playing Stompy I found it to be successful only when paired with heavy doses of disruption – Root Maze and Winter Orb. Even with a full suite of pump spells it just wasn’t fast enough to compete. Is this still the case in Legacy? Can you cut the disruption and only focus on beats?

Below is a build I’ve ported over using my past experience, knowledge of the local meta, and from reading this thread and others.

Green Stompy

Creatures – 19 Cards

4 Llanowar Elves G
4 Hidden Gibbons G
4 Skyshroud Elite G
3 Scavenger Folk G
4 Tarmogoyf 1G

Disruption – 8 cards

4 Root Maze G
4 Winter Orb 2

Creature Pump – 11 cards

4 Rancor G
4 Briar Shield G
3 Bounty of the Hunt 3GG

Mana – 22 Cards

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Land Grant
10 Forest
4 Wasteland

Casting Cost

27 – 1cc
8 – 2cc

Cards Used

Creatures

Llanowar Elves
Stompy absolutely needs an Elf in this deck. It could have been Quirion Ranger, but the Ranger has horrible synergy with Root Maze.

Hidden Gibbons
Deserves to be maindecked. May not be in your meta.

Skyshroud Elite
Kird Ape but without the Kird.

Scavenger Folk
Some things never change. =) Unfortunately this is still the best creature green has to offer for a 1cc body that can destroy artifacts. Being able to destroy artifacts (Chalice, Vial, Trinisphere) is big in our meta.

Tarmogoyf
This caught my attention as I was looking over the new cards in Time Spiral block. Right off the bat this deck can supply creatures, sorceries, instants, lands, and enchantments. My opponent supplies artifacts. On average I think this should be a 3/4 for 1G. The key is to empty your disruption first, then creatures, followed by this fearsome sight.

Disruption

Root Maze
One of the keys to this deck. Will shut most combo and control decks dead in their tracks. These are the decks I’m worried about.

Winter Orb
Play it and it will win you games.

Pump

Rancor
Best creature enchantment ever? I think so.

Briar Shield
I've had fits over this and Giant Growth. So far I'm on the side of the Shield. It plays tricks on your opponent, frees up mana, and does those few extra points of damage. Synergizes with Tarmogoyf. If you’re worried about surprise why run Land Grant?

Bounty of the Hunt
I’m taking this over Giant Growth for now. Easily pitches to Guides, Land Grant, and Root Maze. Extremely versatile. Should this be a four of, cutting a forest?

Mana

Elvish Spirit Guide
Free mana is rad.

Wasteland
Debatable. What’s more important to this deck right now, disruption or creatures? If it’s creatures, I’ll immediately swap this for Pit-Skulk. Wasteland has a few things going for it. It’s gravy with Orb and Maze, has synergy with Tarmgoyf, and on rare occasions, can help smooth land draws. Both of your 2cc's require 1 colorless.

Forest
Can this be cut down to 9? There’s no Rogue Elephant. What has your testing shown?

Sideboard

I’m still sketchy on the sideboard since I designed this deck primarily to combat the combo so rampant in LA. However, just looking at my meta Goblins would give this deck fits. So would recursion. Let’s design our board to take care of that =)

3 Hail Storm -> Goblins (Is there enough mana to support this card?)
4 Tempting Wurm
3 Pithing Needle
3 Tormod’s Crypt
2 Naturalize

Cards Not Used

Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
I missed out on the hype surrounding the Ravinca Block. A solid beater but not any better than any beater above.

Jungle Lion
Wow. They brought back Portal cards. And this one’s actually good. Use this in place of Scavenger Folk when not facing an artifact heavy environment. Winning with Portal cards is priceless. :laugh:

Kavu Predator
Horrible. You need another card to make this card good? That other card is strictly inferior to what’s available?

Rushwood Legate
Love this card. And I see lots of blue. Hidden Gibbons just does its job better.

Vine Dryad
Don’t use this card. Card should read: Don’t play Bounty of the Hunt. Lose one card for 1 power.

Silhana Ledgewalker
The only reason you’d want to use to card is its untargetability. Well, Swords isn’t a major problem here and burn is virtually nonexistent. Again, I’m more worried about mass removal (Pyroclasm, Infest, Engineered Something) than anything else.

River Boa
Great card and was in early builds of this deck, but you simply don’t have the mana to support it. Islandwalk is nice though.

Rogue Elephant
Even since Mirage I wasn’t enamored by the land loss. Good card, but not better than any of the choices listed above.

Viridian Zealot
Would love to have this instead of the Scavenger Folk, but it’s too mana intensive.

Gather Courage
Has its uses only when used with Ranger. This deck does not run Ranger.

Berserk
Sorry, Stompy just isn’t Stompy when you start inserting $70 cards in it. :rolleyes:

[Clark Kant]

I honestly haven't seen anything that seems better than the classic standard build of the deck.

9 Forest
4 Land Grant
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

4 Rancor
4 Briar Shield/Bounty of the Hunt
4 Giant Growth

4 Vine Dryad
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Jungle Lion
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Skraggan Pit Skulk
4 Ghazban Ogre
4 Rogue Elephant
3 Skyshoud Ridgeback

The only variation to it that seems worth exploring is...
-4 Ghazban Ogre
+4 Street Wraith

The only problem I have with the build is the inherent inconsistency between 13 land and 4 rogue elephant, and that fact that Ridgeback, Rogue Elephant, Ranger and Pit Skulk are suboptimal turn one plays, and Ogre a very risky one.

Perhaps the best approach is to not insist on running 9-10 forests (we are afterall devoting 21 slots to cards that are mainly there to produce mana (9 Forest + Land Grant + Spirit Guide + Ranger).

The deck as is often folds to a couple of 3/3s or first strikers on the other side of the board.

And it gets royally screwed over by all goblins hate out there, Pyroclasm, Infest, Ghostly Prison etc.

And it often really hates land destruction too.

Something like the build below, not saying that is anywhere near optimal, or viable, but if you insist on playing Mono Green Aggro, it atleast seems like it would lose less often.

18 Forest
2 Pendelhaven
4 Giant Growth
4 Rancor
4 Quirion Ranger/Elvish Sprit Guide/Street Wraith
4 Llanowar Elves
4 River Boa
4 Troll Ascetic
4 Groundbreaker
4 Call of the Herd
4 Iwamori of Open Fist
4 Spectral Force/Krosan Grip

And it too can be built on a fairly low budget, which is the reason I left off Jitte.

Of course, the deck would still not do great in the current format, but I think it would be a lot more resilient than 9 land stompy is.

[aisman132000]

i agree with clark. If you want to play MGA just play the basic 9/10 land stompy build.

With that being said does anyone else think this deck could actually become viable if flash is not banned? I know it seems crazy but here me out. This deck demolishes the fish decks that have surged in popularity thanks in no small part to hulk flash. if most people are playing some variant of fish than 9 land stompy suddenly seems like a good call. Also 9 land stompy can put enough of a clock on hulk flash to sometimes pull out non sb games (particularly the slower controlling variant). After sb you could bring in pithing needles and tormod's crypts from the board and maybe have a fighting chance against them. thoughts?

[lukatron2]

Berserk
Sorry, Stompy just isn’t Stompy when you start inserting $70 cards in it. :rolleyes:

seriously...you don't know what you're talkng about...

On another note, With a flash legal meta I think a blue splash would be viable/sweet. Stifle,daze,disrupt and company with MD hidden gibbons could do some sweet wonders...haven't actually got to test it yet and although it would be worse against goblins, it sounds cool in theory...I'll have to throw a list togeather and test it out, and then a week later find out that flash is banned and it will all be for nothing :p

[Clark Kant]

Sorry, forgot to add that for the build I posted

Hidden Gibbons should be MD over Ridgeback until Flash is banned.

[Pale Moon FTW]

Hidden Gibbons should be MD over Ridgeback until Flash is banned.

In a deck with absolutely no answers you'll lose anyway so that doesn't really matter. Still I also think Gibbons should be in MD because they're generally strong.