Planar Chaos cards - Might as well get this thread started

[Drkdstryer]

Well, anyone that reads the Countersliver thread knows that the new Muscle Sliver is white - Ligament Sliver - 1/1 for 1W that gives +1/+1 to all slivers. Pretty spicy, I'd say. Definitely going to be played in Legacy.

More interesting, perhaps, is the new Drop of Honey in white. "At the beginning of your upkeep, destroy the creature with the least power. It can't be regenerated. If two or more creatures are tied for least power, you choose one. When there are no creatures in play, sacrifice Porphyry Nodules." For W. Also seems pretty good, and can go in some kind of white control deck, neh?

These are the two I saw that seemed REALLY good anyway; there's probably going to be more if they have reprints of good cards in PC.

All information gotten from http://www.mtgsalvation.com of course.

[Kadaj]

For whatever reason the white Blastoderm has me really excited. G/R/W Fires maybe?

[tivadar]

Ugh, leave it to WOTC to mess up the color pie. I really wonder what this means for Legacy. Right now nothing earth-shattering has come out, but if colors start getting good cards from other colors, it could really mess up the archetype. Colors have things their bad at for a reason.

It looks as if this isn't just the Plane Shifted cards either. The Plane Shifters are directly taken from previous cards, and probably the more powerful ones. But the other cards also give off-color abilities.

So far:
White has gotten previously green abilities.
Blue has gotten previously black abilities.
Red has gotten previously blue abilities.
Black has gotten both blue and white abilities.
Green hasn't gotten anything definite, though Vow is whitish.

Looking at this, you could argue each color is only getting the abilities of one other color, but given that the shift doesn't seem to have any pattern, so it seems more likely each color is getting abilities from every other color, including non-allied colors.

Consider Landstill with Drop of Honey.
Consider 2 color Slivers.
... What else could get a boost from this?

[dahcmai]

Considering Legacy already has cards that mess up the color pie, I'm not worried about that at all. Actually, I am hoping they bring a couple abilities to colors that didn't have them before. Though I don't want to see the main rules broken. For example, red getting an enchantment killer, or blue getting a direct creature killer, Black getting it's artifact/enchantment killer (though dystopia variants would be ok), etc...


Though you're right, slivers might end up being two color decks if they make them worth playing. That could finally put them on the radar for being more than a tabletop style deck in legacy.

[Solpugid]

*Prays for the rumor of a white shock to be true*

I have been hearing a lot of people declaring the bloody murder of Magic with this set. Not saying it's you guys, just lots of people. Personally, I'm going to trust Wizards to do what they always do: a great job.

Giving black enchantment and artifact kill would blow my mind, and I don't think it would be smart UNLESS they do it well/flavorfully. For instance,

BBB
Sorcery

Destroy target artifact or enchantment. You lose 5 life.


Blue has already been determined to have a near-functional reprint of funeral charm, which has me excited. Then, of course, the white drop of honey!

*Prays again for white shock*

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I have been hearing a lot of people declaring the bloody murder of Magic with this set. Not saying it's you guys, just lots of people. Personally, I'm going to trust Wizards to do what they always do: a great job.


Do you (http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=5629#) see what (http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=8883#[/url) I see (http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=24566#), said the (http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=44263#) shepard boy (http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=50943#) to the (http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=48197#) mighty king? (http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=88793#)





No, realistically, it is silly to worry about this set's effect on Magic. No one's even going to buy the set because they can go back to Time Spiral and get twice as many rares.

[Firebrothers]

Yeah people rant and rave about every new set saying they are going to quit magic, this and that is overpowered and blah blah blah. We all know that everyone is addicted to the damn cards and whatever you say you will still play.

Anyway I like the drop of honey card, Looking forward to cracking some packs and attending the prerelease.

[Eldariel]

This'll be good for eternal formats.

[Complete_Jank]

Rumors have it that there will be a Blue Braids...:eek: Means I might be playing U/B Braids soon with Force of Will and other neat stuff.:cool:

[edgewalker]

Not an exact blue braids. The timeshifted legends are like the old ones but reverse. (Crovax pumps white dudes and kills non white dudes) So whatever an alternate ability braids would have is beyond me, but I doubt they'd make it like the original smokestack one.

I am also looking foreward to the white 'derm and the new drop of honey. I'm suprised more people don't play the green one (price maybe?), it really is a good card. I think this set should do some good to the eternal formats.

[AngryTroll]

I think that the new White Muscle Sliver (Ligament Sliver) will really put that deck on the board.

It gets all the perks of three colors (Crystalline, Muscle, Winged, and then Plated and Talon), and all the benefits of a two color manabase (5-6 fetches, 3-4 Duals, then basics)! It will definitely improve the Goblins matchup, which is already pretty strong. No tier one matchup will suffer, but some decks, like Stax, might get a boost out of not having Harmonic Sliver around.

The deck already has great game against Goblins, and the Threshold and Solidarity matchups are supposed to be pretty good. I think we might have a winner here, folks!

Actually, really, the deck could have an impact on the popularity of Goblins. Lots of people have the cards for Threshold sitting around, and switching the creature base makes the Goblins match a ton easier. If it can be shown that the change doesn't have too big an effect on the other two top decks, we could actually see a shift in the metagame. Goblins might be knocked from its post as King of 1.5 to a real member of the Top 3 Best Decks. If Slivers becomes pretty popular, it might even (gasp!) make Goblins adjust a little bit!

Anyway, we will have to see, but I do not believe that it is impossible or even improbable that that card will push Meathooks into the top tier, up from tier 1.5 or so.

[Alfred]

Oh my shitness! White is getting the nuts! And wtf is up with the blue Funeral Charm?

White Blastoderm fucking rocks! White is now officially the color of beatdown!

[Whit3 Ghost]

Red is getting Akroma.

That is all.

[Bane of the Living]

The ability on the new blastoderm is called vanishing.

Basically its fading but with fading you lose your guy when you cant take a counter off during upkeep, with vanishing you lose your guy [b]when the last counter is removed.[b] Incase anyone wanted an ability shittier than fading there it is.

It may also be worth mentioning black got a Circle of Protection. No word one what color or anything but by the picture you can see the 1B cost and 1 activation.

New dragons too, one of them is a 6/6 that gets the activation of Temporal Apature when it hits and you pay 3. Thats pretty cool. Hopefully some better dragons for Dragonstorm than Hunted.

[Nightmare]

The ability on the new blastoderm is called vanishing.

Basically its fading but with fading you lose your guy when you cant take a counter off during upkeep, with vanishing you lose your guy [b]when the last counter is removed.[b] Incase anyone wanted an ability shittier than fading there it is.

It may also be worth mentioning black got a Circle of Protection. No word one what color or anything but by the picture you can see the 1B cost and 1 activation.Vanishing is better than Fading. If you stifle the triggered ability when the last counter is removed, your creature stays forever, since the trigger only tries to kill it once. This is different than fading, which checks every upkeep, and would have to be stifled every turn.

The black COP is actually pretty bad. It's like Story Circle, so you pick a color when you play it, and it doesn't prevent the damage, it just says " you gain 1 life and target opponent loses 1 life."

[Eldariel]

Also, Vanishing uses time-counters which have synergy with stuff like Clockspinning.

[Bane of the Living]

Doesnt everything have synergy with Clockspinning? Am I mistaken or does it add/remove a counter of any type?

Well without stifle it looks like Vanishing is a whole shit ton worse. You have your guy for one less turn, thats 5 less damage from whitey.

[Eldariel]

Doesnt everything have synergy with Clockspinning? Am I mistaken or does it add/remove a counter of any type?

Well without stifle it looks like Vanishing is a whole shit ton worse. You have your guy for one less turn, thats 5 less damage from whitey.

My bad. There's probably something that interacts with time-counters that I'm forgetting right now though, and they'll probably print some more.

[MasterBlaster]

Well without stifle it looks like Vanishing is a whole shit ton worse. You have your guy for one less turn, thats 5 less damage from whitey.

That would be true except that Blastoderm has 'fading 3' and the white blastoderm has 'vanishing 4', so they're pretty much equal.

[Pinder]

I think that the new White Muscle Sliver (Ligament Sliver) will really put that deck on the board.
...
The deck already has great game against Goblins, and the Threshold and Solidarity matchups are supposed to be pretty good. I think we might have a winner here, folks!
...
Anyway, we will have to see, but I do not believe that it is impossible or even improbable that that card will push Meathooks into the top tier, up from tier 1.5 or so.

Awww, shucks, really? The only problem I can see with Meathooks becoming terribly popular is, well, it being terribly popular. The Sliver mirror is basically 45 minutes of hellish attrition. If it gets popular, it will likely reach some sort of critical mass when people get tired of the mirror, and then die down a bit.

But yeah, the white Muscle Sliver (MTGS is calling it 'Tendon Sliver' now) is a godsend.

[My Name Is Scott]

The only problem I can see with Meathooks becoming terribly popular is, well, it being terribly popular. The Sliver mirror is basically 45 minutes of hellish attrition. If it gets popular, it will likely reach some sort of critical mass when people get tired of the mirror, and then die down a bit.

That's why everyone in the world gave up on solidarity, right? Wait a second...

[Pinder]

That's why everyone in the world gave up on solidarity, right? Wait a second...

:laugh: Okay, I guess you have a point there. Maybe Mav and I are just tired of testing the mirror so much.

[Aggro_zombies]

Well, I just checked magicthegathering.com and they had this weird little hologram thing up on the front page. It started out as a Ninth Wrath and then warped into...a black Wrath of God called Damnation, with the white text indicating planeshifted-ness. I nearly shat myself. It seems strictly superior to Mutilate, although only Train Wreck runs that...could this card help push a resurgence in a MBC competitor to Pox, which isn't Train Wreck and doesn't suck? Screw that, just run B/X, where X is any color but white, and you have yourself Wraths and discard and whatever you get from the other color...the Rock, anyone?

[niknight]

Using the orb of insight, we (magic-league) managed to construct the 5 card magus cycle from PC:

Magus of the Arena (red)
Magus of the Coffers (black)
Magus of the Tabernacle (white)
Magus of the Cradle (green)

and the last one...

Magus of the Bazaar (blue)

[kabal]

Black wrath of god:
Damnation (http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/damnation.swf)

[Pinder]

Magus of the Tabernacle (white)

and the last one...

Magus of the Bazaar (blue)

Mmmmmm.....these two look pretty.......*drool*

[Whit3 Ghost]

Damn, I was hoping they'd print Bazaar with suspend so Crop Rotation-> Friggorid would be good.

[edgewalker]

No, the just printed bazaar on a blue dude. The magus cycle is lands this time.

[Firebrothers]

I think PC is going to give the legacy format alot to work with this set. Does anyone think that these cards will allow other players to begin playing in legacy events and compete against Goblins if they have 8 WoG's at their disposal?

[edgewalker]

8 WoGs means they auto lose to any combo or control deck. I'd love for people to play 8 WoG

[scrumdogg]

8 WoGs means they auto lose to any combo or control deck. I'd love for people to play 8 WoG

That is not determined, as they get a lot of good stuff otherwise that control/combo should hate, a lot. Vindicate, Sinkhole, SmallPox, Orim's Chant, Abeyance, discard out the ass etc etc etc...and then they get to sideboard..... Plus, we have seen the entire set yet, who knows what goodness still awaits?

[Complete_Jank]

I believe the Blue Braids will return something during your upkeep rather than sacrifice. I am just waiting till the release.

[Vardaman]

Using the orb of insight, we (magic-league) managed to construct the 5 card magus cycle from PC:

Magus of the Tabernacle (white)
Magus of the Bazaar (blue)

And it would be nice if they didn't cost five mana to play.

[Fortifitakitors]

Magus of the Scroll is one red. So that means that their casting costs are not really all that predictable.

[Evil Roopey]

Magus of the Scroll is one red. So that means that their casting costs are not really all that predictable.

Last time I checked Cursed Scroll costs 1.

[Vardaman]

Last time I checked Cursed Scroll costs 1.

Ergo, magus of the lands will each cost zero. B)

[Team-Hero]

They might have suspend for 0 and will be uncastable... just a thought...

like

Magnus of the Bazaar
Creature
No casting cost (not even 0)
Suspent - 3 cost 0

etc etc etc

[Drkdstryer]

They might have suspend for 0 and will be uncastable... just a thought...

like

Magnus of the Bazaar
Creature
No casting cost (not even 0)
Suspent - 3 cost 0

etc etc etc

Nope, then they'd be effectively colorless. Yes they're messing with the color wheel, but no I don't think they're going to give every color these lands for the cost of a card - not even mana.

[Eldariel]

Is Magus of the Arena certain? It's certainly within the realm of possibility, but Arena was just Timeshifted, it seems unlikely that they'd use it twice in a row. I recall there's Dust too, so it could be after Dust Bowl, then there's Tomb so it could be Ancient Tomb and finally, there's Library so it could be after Library of Alexandria. The others seem pretty clear though.

[etrigan]

Is Magus of the Arena certain? It's certainly within the realm of possibility, but Arena was just Timeshifted, it seems unlikely that they'd use it twice in a row. I recall there's Dust too, so it could be after Dust Bowl, then there's Tomb so it could be Ancient Tomb and finally, there's Library so it could be after Library of Alexandria. The others seem pretty clear though.

Hammerheim shows up in the Orb. I pity the color that gets Magus of Hammerheim.

[Xero]

There is a rumour of a W Strafe on Mtgsalvation. "W: Deal 3 damage to target non-white creature." (Sorcery) How's that sound?

[Drkdstryer]

There is a rumour of a W Strafe on Mtgsalvation. "W: Deal 3 damage to target non-white creature." (Sorcery) How's that sound?

Like it's worse than both Swords and Lightning Bolt :\

On the other hand, Magic of the Bazaar. 1U and tap to draw 2 and pitch 3. 2 mana and another turn to untap is a long time, but the ability is so strong...

[Jander78]

On the other hand, Magic of the Bazaar. 1U and tap to draw 2 and pitch 3. 2 mana and another turn to untap is a long time, but the ability is so strong...

Magus of the Bazaar sounds pretty good. 0/1 might be tough in this format, but it does have a real nice ability for 2 mana.

Magus of the Bazaar
1U
T: Draw two cards, then discard three cards.
0/1
#43/165

I like it!

[dahcmai]

If only it could have been a 0/4. That magus is just going to die quickly if you build a deck revolving around it. Great ability, he's just dead meat for getting into play and any deck that would want to use it is going to rely on that ability too much more than likely.


As for the White Strafe, I think I'd use that here and there. It would definitely be second rate if I have a splash color with some good removal, but it's still cheap to cast and that's never a bad thing. Think about W/U decks. You get Swords and that's about it for removal unless you start dipping into Exile, Topple, or Condemn. Wrath is only good when you're running a non-heavy creature base. Blue doesn't have too much for removal and what it does have usually says "go get an artifact, it's not worth it." I can see sticking in the back of my mind for Legacy even though it's not great.

[Alfred]

Holy shit!

Tomb of Yawgmoth
Legendary Land

All Lands are Swamps in addition to its other land types.


Uhhhh... So that's good right?

[Cait_Sith]

Wow. It even taps for black mana. I wish it said Forest so you could abuse it in green, although maybe Trainwreck would like this.

[Eldariel]

So that's the 'Yawgmoth' the Orb of Insight brought up.

[Complete_Jank]

Holy shit!

Tomb of Yawgmoth
Legendary Land

All Lands are Swamps in addition to its other land types.


Uhhhh... So that's good right?
:eek:


They are just printing cards to make my Black Braids Deck far superior than every other deck in this format. :cool:

[Eldariel]

Black has been getting really nice non-basics out of the non-cycles lately... Cabal Coffers, Tomb of Urami, now Tomb of Yawgmoth. Really, really good. They generally even tap for black mana! I wonder if I can use it in Extended Deadguy...turn 1 Tomb of Yawgmoth-Duress, turn 2 Flagstones-Smallpox seems pretty good.

[Alfred]

Black has been getting really nice non-basics out of the non-cycles lately... Cabal Coffers, Tomb of Urami, now Tomb of Yawgmoth. Really, really good. They generally even tap for black mana! I wonder if I can use it in Extended Deadguy...turn 1 Tomb of Yawgmoth-Duress, turn 2 Flagstones-Smallpox seems pretty good.

Gogo Legendary Lands!

[ForceofWill]

Black Just got Counter FREAKinG SPell

BB
counter target spell
when you play "this spell" any player may pay 5 life if you do Counter "this spell"
counter target spell

[Aggro_zombies]

Black Just got Counter FREAKinG SPell

BB
counter target spell
when you play "this spell" any player may pay 5 life if you do Counter "this spell"
counter target spell
Iono about this one. Maybe in a black aggro build it can buy you time or make your opponent that much closer to being dead, but the choice basically makes this card not so hawt. Maybe the right deck could take advantage of it, but I don't know what that would be.

[Alfred]

The black counterspell sucks.

[ForceofWill]

The point is if we see a black counter and a black WoG do you realize what could be next.

[Eldariel]

No. Vendetta already exists.

As for the Counterspell, it's absolute crap. It's like Molten Influence, except harder to cast. Besides, black already has a discard, why would it ever want a counter? White counter or green counter could interest me though.

[Bane of the Living]

Wow black Counterspell and WoG? Im playing MBC in standard!

I think that Tomb of Yawgmoth is the shit just because your Coffers count themselves. Time to Vesuva your coffers kiddies!

[Evil Roopey]

Wow black Counterspell and WoG? Im playing MBC in standard!

I think that Tomb of Yawgmoth is the shit just because your Coffers count themselves. Time to Vesuva your coffers kiddies!

Don't forget Time Walk. The CS and TW seem like they are going to be good in black aggro, not control.

[etrigan]

Let's not get our collective panties in a bunch over Black Counterspell, or Black Time Walk. This is no different than when Browbeat was printed (OMGZ red draw). That is, they're both bad because your opponent chooses which effects happens.

It doesn't matter what kind of deck you're running, you will never be satisfied. You will try countering something important, and your opponent will be more than happy to take the 5 if it lets the spell through. You will try countering something and using it as reach, and your opponent will gladly see their Impulse countered, as long as it keeps them alive.

For all the times that you have your opponent on the ropes, at 5 or less life, and needing to resolve a critical spell, aren't you winning anyway? But if you're losing, this card does absolutely nothing, as mentioned above.

I'm surprised this needs explaining to you guys.

P.S. Can we please stop with the idiotic drive-by 'hey check out this card from planar chaos' posts? Yes, there are new cards. Yes, you're excited. No, it doesn't need to be pointed out in every single thread.

Worst offender so far: The guy who mentioned Damnation in the underplayed cards thread. Kinda hard to see play when you haven't been printed yet.

[Bane of the Living]

Dude Browbeat is a 3 mana SORCERY, AKA jank.

This is a counterspell for 2 mana!! Put this in a deck with Dark Confidant and some Specters, beatdown then counter the critical WoG your opponent is about to cast. Thats much different than Browbeat.

[Cait_Sith]

The difference primarily lies in the fact that your already putting a hardy dent in your opponents life and he might have to choose to go down to 2-3 life in order to let his WoG resolve. Dealing 2-3 damage as Mono Black or as RB is fairly simple.

[Bane of the Living]

Ok I thought Damnation was cool and all... Green gets BALL LIGHTINING!

Red just gets Morphling.. thats all. Oh well.

[MasterBlaster]

This is a counterspell for 2 mana!! Put this in a deck with Dark Confidant and some Specters, beatdown then counter the critical WoG your opponent is about to cast. Thats much different than Browbeat.

But the thing is why would you want to run it over Duress or Cabal Therapy?

Duress and Therapy let you stay aggro and don't force you to keep 2 untapped.

[ApokalypseKid9]

But the thing is why would you want to run it over Duress or Cabal Therapy?

Duress and Therapy let you stay aggro and don't force you to keep 2 untapped.
I think he meant for T2.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

This is reactive, Browbeat is pro-active.



Tomb of Yawgmoth, however, looks good as a 2-of in Train Wreck, at least in Extended, if not Legacy. Making Coffers a Swamp his hawtness.

[atv]

Red just gets Morphling.. thats all. Oh well.

I will be very surprised if this "Torchling" is as good as the original blue one.

[Lego]

Red just gets Morphling.. thats all. Oh well.

I thought Red got Akroma.

[Cait_Sith]

Red is getting both actually. (As far we know)

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Let's not get our collective panties in a bunch over Black Counterspell, or Black Time Walk. This is no different than when Browbeat was printed (OMGZ red draw). That is, they're both bad because your opponent chooses which effects happens.

Browbeat in Burn doesn't let your opponent choose. Either your opponent takes damage, or your opponent takes damage. There is no choice in the matter, there is only the question of when, and even that is circumstantial.


Dude Browbeat is a 3 mana SORCERY, AKA jank.

Pretty much every succesful build of Burn has run Browbeat.

[Rastadon]

Watch as this thread turns into a browbeat flame war.

I personally don't like Browbeat because your opponent will always choose the option that best suits them. When you want to kill them right now, they'll tell you to draw three and you'll have to kill them next turn. When you want to bounce back on card advantage, they'll take 5 instead. You can say "Sure, but both options are good", which is true I guess but I like having my cards doing what I tell them to do.

Now the counterspell will consistently do what you don't want it to do. They'll take five when you want to counter and they'll counter when you want them to take five. Not so certain about the time walk though.

[Aggro_zombies]

Now the counterspell will consistently do what you don't want it to do. They'll take five when you want to counter and they'll counter when you want them to take five. Not so certain about the time walk though.
I think the Time Walk has more potential than the counter does, although it seems like something of a "win more" card. When you want to use it, you either want to hit them with a near-lethal assault in the extra turn they give you, or hit them with a lethal assault after they opt to pay half their life. Either way, it seems like you should be winning if you're doing these kinds of things.

[Complete_Jank]

Could someone post the info for the black time walk please?

Mana cost? Text? Rarity?

[Cait_Sith]

Temporal Extortion BBBB
Sorcery R

When you play Temporal Extortion, any player may pay half his or her life, rounded up. If a player does, counter Temporal Extortion.
Take an extra turn after this one.

"The scythe of time or my blade at your throat–the choice is yours."
–Holux, stronghold racketeer
Illus. Stephen Belledin

#81/165

It's janky IMO.

[Complete_Jank]

Temporal Extortion BBBB
Sorcery R

When you play Temporal Extortion, any player may pay half his or her life, rounded up. If a player does, counter Temporal Extortion.
Take an extra turn after this one.

"The scythe of time or my blade at your throat–the choice is yours."
–Holux, stronghold racketeer
Illus. Stephen Belledin

#81/165

It's janky IMO.

4 mana for not for sure spell. I would have liked it to be a BBB cost, but then it would have been Dark Ritual range. I think I could have lived with BB2, but probably wouldn't play it. I will like it in draft though.

What a waste of a time-shifted slot, IMO, if it indeed takes one. Should have been B1.

[Aranan]

Time shifted cards are complete clones of earlier cards with the only difference being color (and references within the card to color and land types). Temporal Extortion won't count as a time shifted card, just like Timbermare won't. They are based on earlier cards, but they're not exact copies.

[AngryTroll]

Holy cow Akroma, Angel of Fury is good!

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/feature/382

Do you know how many Protection from White creatures there are in the format? How about any good ones with Pro White? Or even untargettability?

I head heard a lot of rumors about a 4/4 Red Akroma with Pro White, but this card is incredible! Pro Blue also means it can't be bounced, and the firebreathing is just sweet.

On the one hand, it does not have Haste and Vigilance like Akroma, Angel of Wrath, but the Firebreathing and Morph make it pretty dog-gone cool. Definetely going to pick one up at the Prerelease.

[Cait_Sith]

She's actually not that great. Red doesn't typically get up to that much mana, and only BDW could make use of her and pay her 3RRR morph cost. Also, she has obscenely large jugz. I do not like this.

[AngryTroll]

Not in Straight Red decks, clearly....in which deck does the Angel of Wrath see play?

Reanimator! Against an aggro deck, the Angel of Wrath's Vigilance and first strike are great, but against anything more controlling (Think Thresh), the protection from bounce and Swords is super.

[noobslayer]

I like the new sedge troll that white got. It's synergy base is now green.

[Zilla]

I like the new sedge troll that white got. It's synergy base is now green.
But it's almost strictly worse than Troll Ascetic. And when will you ever want to play 8 Trolls?


On a different note, have you guys seen this (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=38575&stc=1&d=1168328331)? It's like a Serra Avenger, Meddling Mage, and Pithing Needle duct taped together. The cost is pretty prohibitive, but it seems like it has some potential.

[Nightmare]

On a different note, have you guys seen this (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=38575&stc=1&d=1168328331)? It's like a Serra Avenger, Meddling Mage, and Pithing Needle duct taped together. The cost is pretty prohibitive, but it seems like it has some potential.The only issue I have with it is that you can't use it to Pithing Needle Wasteland. And at 5 mana, you aren't helping your combo Matchup with this guy either.

[Ewokslayer]

On a different note, have you guys seen this (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=38575&stc=1&d=1168328331)? It's like a Serra Avenger, Meddling Mage, and Pithing Needle duct taped together. The cost is pretty prohibitive, but it seems like it has some potential.

Is there a reason why it has the long winded text of

Activated abilities of permanents with that name can't be played. Activated abilities of cards with that name that aren't in play can't be played.
Instead of Pithing Needles

Activated abilities of the named card can't be played

I see that the Oracle text on Pithing Needle has the same in play/ aren't in play wording, but it seems unnecessary. Was Needle really that confusing?

[Parcher]

It's actually a neccessity. They need to have the "cards that are not in play" reference for things like Eternal Dragon. They need the "permanents with that name" reference for things like Sculpting Steel.

I don't find it confusing either, but this texts covers rules questions that would come up for those who aren't familiar with cards like Pithing Needle.

[Cait_Sith]

More simply they need the "activated abilities of cards not in play" because of Forecast.

Holy crap an 8 story building just fell over. SW33T!!!

Continuing: This card can shut of MartyrProc decks by turning off Proclamation of Rebirth instead of just martyr (which would be a simple restriction to play around)

[Ewokslayer]

So basically it is because people are stupid and don't understand what a card is.

[Pinder]

Yeah, basically. All we need to know, though, is that Meddling Mage had sex with Serra Angel (using a Pithing Needle), and this little fucker popped out.

Sexy.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Ah, but does Pithing Needle stop a Dual Natured Ogre Shaman?

I think not.

[Ewokslayer]

Ah, but does Pithing Needle stop a Dual Natured Ogre Shaman?

I think not.

Actually it does. The Oracle wording is the same as the new card.

But I see your point.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

If you got to five mana, you probably don't need it on Wasteland. I like the card a lot anyway.

[NoGameShow]

I could see the gargoyle seeing some random play in Reanimator decks. Turn one pithing needle on crypt/furnace with a Meddling Mage attached on a 3/3 flying body could be good.

[Rastadon]

The gargoyle won't be played in legacy. It costs too much to be used for its abilities. Even if you put it into a reanimator/defense of the heart strategy to speed it up, a 3/3 flyer is not going to win you the game. And if someone was going to use it as a lategame finisher like in Rifter there's far better finishers available.

Sphere of Resistance + Boseiju, Who Shelters All turns Temporal Extortion into 1BBBB, take another turn. So far, that's the cheapest way to take another turn since Time Walk.

[Alfred]

The gargoyle won't be played in legacy. It costs too much to be used for its abilities. Even if you put it into a reanimator/defense of the heart strategy to speed it up, a 3/3 flyer is not going to win you the game. And if someone was going to use it as a lategame finisher like in Rifter there's far better finishers available.

Sphere of Resistance + Boseiju, Who Shelters All turns Temporal Extortion into 1BBBB, take another turn. So far, that's the cheapest way to take another turn since Time Warp.

Fixed.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

The gargoyle won't be played in legacy. It costs too much to be used for its abilities. Even if you put it into a reanimator/defense of the heart strategy to speed it up, a 3/3 flyer is not going to win you the game. And if someone was going to use it as a lategame finisher like in Rifter there's far better finishers available.

Sphere of Resistance + Boseiju, Who Shelters All turns Temporal Extortion into 1BBBB, take another turn. So far, that's the cheapest way to take another turn since Seed Time.

Fixed.

Double fixed.

[Cait_Sith]

I think you are forgetting Time Walk + Mizzium Transreliquat does it without colored mana. Even though its CMC is one higher than Seed Time the fact it can be done easily without specific requirements.

[Zilla]

The gargoyle won't be played in legacy. It costs too much to be used for its abilities.
Mono-White control with stall cards like Abeyance, Orim's Chant, or Angel's Grace could theoretically use it as an anti-combo SB card.

As far as maindecks are concerned, I agree it's not likely to see much play in Legacy, short of a deck built specifically to accomodate it.

[Complete_Jank]

I got to hold a new Planar Chaos card in my hand yesterday.

If it really was a new card I like it.

It was a split card. Both sides being Red!!!

Name: Dead
Cost:R
Type: Instant
Text: Deal 2/3? damage to target creature

Name: Gone
Cost: R3 ???
Type: Instant
Text: Think it was either destroy or bounce target creature. I think it was bounce because it didn't quite fit Red's color.

Sorry can't remember all details, only had a second to hold it and take a look at it.

[Alfred]

Retether, the new Replenish for Enchant Creatures, seems like it could work in some sort of enchantress deck maybe?

[Eldariel]

Dead/Gone is R/2R for "Deals 2 damage to target creature/Return target creature you don't control to owner's hand"

[Finn]

Retether, the new Replenish for Enchant Creatures, seems like it could work in some sort of enchantress deck maybe?

I have always wanted to put a deck with Nomad Mythmaker and Mythic Proportions together. I haven't liked anything since Hermit Druid and Oath were banned. Recently, since the rules have changed with Treachery becoming a far more attractive card, I have been kicking it around again. And this makes it even moreso.

Treachery
Intuition
Nomad Mythmaker
Mythic Proportions
Silhana Edgewalker
Iridescent Drake - ehh, whatever
Academy Researchers - ehh, whatever


Just a thought.

[Firebrothers]

Retether, the new Replenish for Enchant Creatures, seems like it could work in some sort of enchantress deck maybe?

The only way that i see of getting "aura's" in the graveyard is by playing with alot of dredge, what card in an enchantress deck would use dredge?

Im not completly sold on this card, mabey they are just testing the waters to see how powerfull it can be before unbanning replenish.

[CynicalSquirrel]

The only thing I can think of with Retether is something involving a lot of drawing/discarding/dredging with Mythic Proportions and something with haste, then throwing all the auras on a random creature like Birds of Paradise and swinging for the win. And that seems suboptimal, to say the least. I don't think the card is really playable in Legacy, Auras just aren't good enough to warrant building a deck around them.

Also, apparently there's a Green Planeshifted Glorious Anthem. Might be pretty solid in a cheap stompy variant, although a Green Crusade would have been infinitely better.

[Cait_Sith]

I think we are going to eventually see 8Char.dec, 8Anthem.dec, 8Stone Rain.dec 8Akroma.dec, 8Wrath.dec, and Non Jank.dec in Standard.

On Replenish: I think I'll try to make one work in Standard, but Global Enchantments are far deadlier in Legacy than auras.

[Complete_Jank]

If you want to be serious about playing Retether, look at realistic multiple use creature enchantment spells.

Dance of the Dead & Animate Dead are nice, but when Retether resolves you want to win rather than just control the game.

So, lets focus the deck around: Death Watch

Death Watch - When enchanted creature is put into a graveyard, its controller loses life equal to its power and you gain life equal to its toughness.

Then we use enchantments like:
Grave Servitude (1B) +3/-1
Immolation (R) +2/-2
Infectious Rage (1R) +2/-1
Maggot Therapy (2B) +2/-2
Spinal Graft (1B) +3/+3
Twisted Experiment (1B) +3/-1
Crown of Suspicion (1B) +2/-1 sacrifices to plague pretty much.

We also would run Forbidden Orchard to insure that they would have creatures.

This would be pretty strong against creature decks, but for those combo decks we just rock them with Duress and Cabal Therapy

Also, we could just beat down with our own Enchantments and creatures like Phyrexian Walker, Ornithopter, & Tethered Griffin.

Maybe I'll post a nice list for a deck in the N&D section later.

[Pinder]

So...the two newest preview cards from Wizards....wow.

First up:



Rahda, Heir to Keld RG
Legendary Creature - Elf Warrior

Whenever Rahda, Heir to Keld attacks, you may add RR to your mana pool.
T: Add G to your mana pool

2/2


And then:



Mirri the Cursed 2BB
Legendary Creature - Vampire Cat

Flying, Haste, First Strike
Whenever Mirri the Cursed deals combat damage to a creature, put a +1/+1 counter on Mirri the Cursed

3/2


Mmmm...these cards make me warm inside. Not sure how playable they are in Legacy (Though Rahda could probably find home in some sort of RG Beats, I suppose), but I wouldn't hate to open either of them during the prerelease.

[Vardaman]

Radha and Mirri are both kind of meh unless you can find a way to use Radha's mana production.

I'm more interested in the new River Boa w/ swampwalk and the green Seal of Cleansing.

[herbig]

Radha is fricken hot though. I think I'm in love.

[Nightmare]

Radha is fricken hot though. I think I'm in love.QFT. What a hottie. God I love the badass chicks.

[Drathro]

Ok, so I know you dimissed these for the moment as not the way to go with Retether:

Dance of the Dead & Animate Dead are nice, but when Retether resolves you want to win rather than just control the game.
but just FYI for anyone who isn't dismissing them, Retether will not retrieve them, because they are not Auras until they come into play.

[TorpidNinja]

There's a rumour going around, based off a recent MTG.com article, that Ichorid may see itself "timeshifted."

If this is true, it will undoubtedly find itself in green.

What kind of consequences could a green Ichorid inflict upon the metagame? Would it be useful at all? Or is the current incarnation the only one worth referring to?

[Cait_Sith]

QFT. What a hottie. God I love the badass chicks.

So does Cavotta. Her mana ability could be interesting in RGu deck for quicken.

[Complete_Jank]

Ok, so I know you dimissed these for the moment as not the way to go with Retether:

but just FYI for anyone who isn't dismissing them, Retether will not retrieve them, because they are not Auras until they come into play.

Yes, I missed the wording, you are correct.

[Mirrislegend]

There's a rumour going around, based off a recent MTG.com article, that Ichorid may see itself "timeshifted."

If this is true, it will undoubtedly find itself in green.

What kind of consequences could a green Ichorid inflict upon the metagame? Would it be useful at all? Or is the current incarnation the only one worth referring to?

If it was a green Ashen Ghoul, then things would be different. But if it's an Ichorid, it wont make a splash at all.

[iOWN]

Maybe Radha can find use in RG Fires? Also will probably be used in some red splashed Elf combo (Elfball?) deck.

I'm really liking the Green Sedge Troll, definitely going to be testing that out.

[Cait_Sith]

After seeing Mirri I have a sudden need to make a Friggorid like deck that uses Akuta, born of Ash.

[herbig]

Green Ichorid would be amazingly powerful. You are already playing Grave Troll, adding Shambling Shell and Gigapede would make a Dread Return version viable in Legacy.

[Alfred]

Guys, if you want the best Retether target, it's Yavimaya's Embrace. Control Magic, Trample, +2/+2.

That's pretty awesome. Add some other stuff like Mythic Proportions, and you're gold.

Mirri also seems a lot better than you guys are giving credit for. 3 power, 4 mana cost, haste and flying plus the dervish ability? Seems pretty good to me!

[Zilla]

I'm really liking the Green Sedge Troll, definitely going to be testing that out.
If you like Hedge Troll, I have a card you're going to love. It's called Troll Ascetic and it's almost strictly superior.

[iOWN]

If you like Hedge Troll, I have a card you're going to love. It's called Troll Ascetic and it's almost strictly superior.

That existing doesn't make Hedge Troll bad. In fact, the deck I would test it in already runs 3-4 Ascetics. As an additional cheap beater it isn't terrible, especially since it has low mana requirements and can regen twice as much as Ascetic can.

[Firebrothers]

Green Ichorid would be amazingly powerful. You are already playing Grave Troll, adding Shambling Shell and Gigapede would make a Dread Return version viable in Legacy.

Yeah 4 new ichorid, 4 icorid and 4 ashen ghoul in one deck i think it is pretty powerfull, but tormods crypt and other graveyard hate is still in everyones sideboard so who knows.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

That existing doesn't make Hedge Troll bad. In fact, the deck I would test it in already runs 3-4 Ascetics. As an additional cheap beater it isn't terrible, especially since it has low mana requirements and can regen twice as much as Ascetic can.

I think Troll Ascetic's existence + Call of the Herd's existence = bad times for Hedge Troll in Legacy.

It's been pretty well established that simple p/t efficiency isn't enough for creatures that are more than 1 or 2 mana. They have to have evasion or some kind of very strong resilience. Troll Ascetic and CotH both dodge StP and Hedge doesn't.

[CynicalSquirrel]

They just spoiled the Green Magus:

Magus of the Library GG
Creature -- Human Wizard
Tap: Add 1 to your mana pool
Tap: Draw a card. Use this ability only if you have exactly 7 cards in your hand.

Seems like a nice card for Loam decks, and maybe some other forms of control decks that pop up. I think it's really strong.

[IndyTerminator]

I'm really liking Magus of the Library. The mana cost is somewhat prohibitive but it is a powerful effect.

[Cait_Sith]

In Legacy the creature body makes it too weak.

[IndyTerminator]

In Legacy the creature body makes it too weak.

I'm not so sure about this. A 1/1 may be easily killed in this format but that does not prevent people from playing them. Otherwise people wouldn't play Goblin Lackey because it has a "weak body". Magus is not a beater. It is a control card and I think even one activation with it before somebody kills it is pretty good. I don't believe that it is on par with some of the other creatures in this format that are very powerful if they are able to get one activation of their abilities. Goblin Lackey, Dark Confidant, and to an extent Goblin Welder are all worth running for this. So, the body of the Magus really isn't the problem so much.

The problem is really the mana cost. Double green will force any current decks that would use this to weaken their manabases. In that regard, the Magus is not worth it. A deck would need to be built around the Magus.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

As a 1/2 it might be strong. As a 1/1 I doubt it'll see any Legacy play. The liability of ketting pinged is too much for what is in reality a very slow effect.

[dahcmai]

I don't know about it, but I think I'll test it for a couple of reasons.

First, it's a guaranteed way to draw out a creature killer. No one is going to let that thing go for long.

Secondly, if you actually do get even a single use out of it, you just broke parity for it.

The library effect is amazingly strong. He's no beater like Confidant or anything, but he's far from weak. He says "kill me" all over him. My only complaint is he's not easily splashable.

[sammiel]

Confidant will never see play because it has one toughness in a format that revolves around answering goblin lackey.

My only real complaint is the same as dahcmai's, not easily splashable.

[Complete_Jank]

It won't see play in a competitive deck in Legacy.

Reason why it sucks.

It is double green
It is a situational activation
It has sommoning sickness
It has a 1 toughness
It is a creature, the easiest thing to remove in the format
The name sucks


It would have been great as a 2/2 that was a Sylvan Library.

[Jander78]

It won't see play in a competitive deck in Legacy.

Reason why it sucks.

It is double green
It is a situational activation
It has sommoning sickness
It has a 1 toughness
It is a creature, the easiest thing to remove in the format
The name sucks


It would have been great as a 2/2 that was a Sylvan Library.

Agreed. Not only is it a green card, but it has double green in the mana cost making it not very playable in most decks that would take advantage of it.

[Bane of the Living]

It won't see play in a competitive deck in Legacy.

Reason why it sucks.

It is double green
It is a situational activation
It has sommoning sickness
It has a 1 toughness
It is a creature, the easiest thing to remove in the format
The name sucks


It would have been great as a 2/2 that was a Sylvan Library.

This comes from the guy who jumped to a decklist at the site of Retether? Its certainly more playable since it doesnt need a deck full of shit enchantments to work. Correct Loam decks could incorperate this to some degree, Im thinking the Confinement builds will be the versions to try it in. Keeping your hand @ 7 is a cakewalk and it makes up for the Confinements cost regardless on loam being online with cycle lands or not. Thats hot.

Dark Confidant being unplayable is the most fucked up thing I've heard in a magic forum. He's more than playable, Deadguy Ale was created revolving around his efficiency. Dozens of other decks in the N&D or Open Forums are running him and I've won a tournament with him in affinity, nvm placing well all together because of him.

[TheDarkshineKnight]

You realize that the guy who said Dark Confidant sucked was only making a comparison between how Magus of the Library is percieved and how those perceptions equally apply to Confidant. He doesn't actually think it sucks.

[Bane of the Living]

Confidant will never see play because it has one toughness in a format that revolves around answering goblin lackey.

My only real complaint is the same as dahcmai's, not easily splashable.

I dont see any sarcasm in this.

Id imagine the poor guy probably doesnt play much legacy or is pron the endless droning about goblin decks and their fanatics on star city games.

[Vardaman]

I dont see any sarcasm in this.

Id imagine the poor guy probably doesnt play much legacy or is pron the endless droning about goblin decks and their fanatics on star city games.

Your sarcasm detector is broken.

[Complete_Jank]

This comes from the guy who jumped to a decklist at the site of Retether? Its certainly more playable since it doesnt need a deck full of shit enchantments to work.

I just posted that because I had time to waste. Matter of fact, I was just trying to beat anyone else from leading people down the wrong road. People are talking BS about running stupid enchantments that only work with Retether. At least every Enchantment I am running has multiple uses, and can be cast easily.

Just like with Replenish, if you cast Retether, you want to win when it resolves, not do something cute.

Did you even take a look at the deck? If it was fine tuned and a proper sideboard was made, I think it would be pretty strong. Matter of a fact I tested it against goblins and it did surprisingly good.

[edgewalker]

Did you even take a look at the deck? If it was fine tuned and a proper sideboard was made, I think it would be pretty strong. Matter of a fact I tested it against goblins and it did surprisingly good.

Are you high right now?

Anyway, I think retether could be really good. There's alot of viable auras out there, that aren't played becayse they're well auras. I also don't know what to think of this green ichorid, I mean I like keeping my GGTs around, but still, it's 8 ichorids.

[Alfred]

There is a white Force Spike now called Mana Tithe. Is that good in Rabid Wombat?

[xsockmonkeyx]

Blood Knight RR
Creature - Human Knight (TS)
First strike, protection from White

2/2

This card is timeshifted from White Knight.


Yay, they finally confirmed the Red Knight! Ive been waiting over ten years for them to print this friggin card.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[kicks_422]

Isn't it Timeshifted from Black Knight?

Would it see play? Being immune to StP is such a big deal. BDW could probably work this in, alongside Silver Knights, though having RR and WW available on Turn 2-3 is pretty hard to do.

Decks relying solely on StP for removal would need a back-up if this gets played. I think it will, at least because it's name sounds so cool...

[xsockmonkeyx]

Yeah, its probably a shifted black knight (who cares, anyway?:tongue: ). I just pasted the thing from the MTGS spoiler.

Anyway, I think that its a very good card. It cant be sworded and blocks Jotun Grunt all day long. Its a great 2 mana bear for red decks.

[Peter_Rotten]

Nobody is excited about the RED Arrogant Wurm?

And what about Goblin O' War?

1R
When Goblin-o'-War comes into play, return target creature an opponent controls to its owner's hand
Echo 3R

Could be used as removal in Vial Goblins. Tricky with EOT Vial and or even in combat to save a blocked Piledriver or Warchief. With Warchief, he costs R and probably does at least 4 dmg (2 from him and 2 from a goblin that was probably going to be blocked.) Does goblins have room? Maybe not, but I think this guy should at least be considered as a SB against creature heavy decks - especially ones with large critters.

[mogote]

Nobody is excited about the RED Arrogant Wurm?
To me it's the most exciting card out of the set revealed so far.
It makes me want to build a UGR Übermadness-like deck resembling the old Madness with 4 LED/ Bazaars (when it was allowed in Vintage/Legacy) that was so much fun.

[sammiel]

I dont see any sarcasm in this.

Id imagine the poor guy probably doesnt play much legacy or is pron the endless droning about goblin decks and their fanatics on star city games.


I went undefeated in swiss at the parkland tournament yesterday, I was running 12 creatures with 1 toughness, including 4 confidants.

I understand that sarcasm doesn't translate particularly well on this medium, but sheesh.

[URABAHN]

I was very disappointed that the DCI left the B&R list alone in December, knowing full well they won't touch it in March because of the Grand Prix. The dam just broke on the spoiler and there are more than a few cards that look promising for Legacy.

I like these two new ones in particular

B - Root of Evil
Instant
Split Second
Choose target card, other than a basic land in a graveyard. Search its controller's graveyard, hand and library for all cards with the same name and remove them from the game.

1W - Medallion of Dawn
Instant

Choose one - prevent all combat damage that would be dealt this turn or regenerate target creature or counter target spell which targets you

[Alfred]

I was very disappointed that the DCI left the B&R list alone in December, knowing full well they won't touch it in March because of the Grand Prix. The dam just broke on the spoiler and there are more than a few cards that look promising for Legacy.

I like these two new ones in particular

B - Roof of Evil
Instant
Split Second
Choose target card, other than a basic land in a graveyard. Search its controller's graveyard, hand and library for all cards with the same name and remove them from the game.

1W - Medallion of Dawn
Instant

Choose one - prevent all combat damage that would be dealt this turn or regenerate target creature or counter target spell which targets you

Yeah, both of those are ill! Root of Evil in particular seems like a Solidarity hoser.

[Slag]

Root of evil sounds like an everything hoser. Imagine ganking every stp a threshold deck has, or every ringleader in gobs. It can apparently hit nonbasic lands too, so maybe deadguy or red death can use it as further resource denial.

[URABAHN]

Root of evil sounds like an everything hoser. Imagine ganking every stp a threshold deck has, or every ringleader in gobs. It can apparently hit nonbasic lands too, so maybe deadguy or red death can use it as further resource denial.

Control strategies can have a field day with various combinations of discard and board control backed by Root of Evil. Damnation + Root of Evil? Hymn to Tourach + Root of Evil? Glimpse the Unthinkable + Root of Evil? Ok, maybe not the last one...

[TheDarkshineKnight]

I fucking REFUSE to believe that Root of Evil is an actual card. That is the most absolute broken hoser in the history of Magic. I mean, for three mana, I could understand, but for one freaking swamp, you get an uncounterable Haunting Echoes that targets any card besides a basic land. Seriously, what the hell?

Oh, and the brokeness is only increasing further. Apparently, there's now a red Elvish Spirit Guide.

[Cait_Sith]

It is a real card. The leaked over half the Planar Chaos set on MTG Salvation because some Russian bastards held a tournament yesterday.

[Aggro_zombies]

It is a real card. The leaked over half the Planar Chaos set on MTG Salvation because some Russian bastards held a tournament yesterday.
Ship 'em some Levis jeans and you, too, can have an early PC draft!

[kabal]

Over @ MTG Salvation:

Monkey's Uncle
Instant U

Destroy target creature. It can't be regenerated. Its controller may put a 3/3 green Ape token into play.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r23/belyrobert/Card6.jpg

Great name (if that is the official name) and artwork; kind of wishing that the token were 2/3 instead. I could see myself replacing my own creatures with a 3/3 in response to their demise.

[MasterBlaster]

Planar chaos makes me wish I still played.

Monkey's Uncle U (Kabal beat me to it, bastard.)
Instant Uncommon
Destroy target creature. It can't be regenerated. It's controller may put a 3/3 green ape token into play.

Not only is it creature removal in blue, but you can also play a lot of tricks with this. Like turning your tapped creature into a 3/3 surprise blocker, or in a way countering your opponents removal by destroying your own creature.

Dead//Gone has made shock obsolete(not that anyone in Legacy played it).

Mana Tithe is Force Spike in white. Would MWC want to use this?

[freakish777]

Dead/Gone doesn't obsolete Shock, it can't target players.

Simian Spirit Guide (timeshifted ESG) looks rediculous considering Red now has twice the Rituals than black does (SSG, Teasing Thong, Rite of Flame and Desperate Ritual vs. Cabal Ritual and Dark Ritual). I'm not sure how amazing it will be in the Eternal Formats, but red is classically a better color than green so who knows.

I'm thinking Root of Evil is replacing my current SB Graveyard hate. Being able to rip Life from the Loam out of my opponent's deck and hand without the possibility of them cycling a land in response seems incredible. Obviously the "Oops your High Tides/Ringleaders/Force of Wills/etc are gone without giving you a chance to respond" is fairly strong as well (just the LftL one is the biggest on my priority list).

[Eldariel]

Looking for a third creature for Faerie Stompy; Chronozoa has a nice casting cost and if the time counters run out, the ability can be useful, but it might be a tad slow. Water Amorph seems a bit underpowered and Primal Plasma is just an artifact creature in blue. It seems like I'll have to wait for another while. Even just a 4/4 flyer with a negligible drawback for 3U would be good.

I really like all the 1-drops in the set, too bad FS has Chalice. Ovinize would be good blue if it just didn't require one to have actual blockers to go with it. Monkey's Uncle seems tons o' fun though, I'm definitely gonna play it, probably in a deck with Repeal.


Root of Evil will make Loam-decks all run 4 Burning Wishes, and Friggorid will get hosed even further :/

[edgewalker]

Root of evil makes me cry. It's soooo good. Why is wizards printing so many good cards for the eternal formats?

[MasterBlaster]

Dead/Gone doesn't obsolete Shock, it can't target players.

Once again, I get a retard point for not being able to read. :cry:

How about that Reckless Wurm?

[noobslayer]

How does Blood Knight, and even Simian Spirit Guide, for Sligh? I know that Blood Knight will be an auto include at least in my lists, especially in mono-red. SSG seem like a more reliable way to accelerate broken early plays that other cards, and can still pitches to pyrokinesis. Thoughts? Warrants testing?

[Aggro_zombies]

Well, I was thinking of SSG in the role of a combo accelerant in a deck like TES or some other combo deck that runs red and needs fast mana.

[kicks_422]

The Red Arrogant Wurm could spawn UGR Uber Madness, along with Fiery Temper and possibly Anger with Wonder, all the draw, and Life From the Loam.

Blood Knight I'd like to try out in Sligh, a much better 2-drop than Keldon Brigand from this set IMHO.

The only thing that's against SSG in Storm decks is that it doesn't add to Storm... And that's a very big negative. Belcher would love this though, alongside Baby Cranial. Probably what the deck needs to see play again.

[Aggro_zombies]

The only thing that's against SSG in Storm decks is that it doesn't add to Storm... And that's a very big negative. Belcher would love this though, alongside Baby Cranial. Probably what the deck needs to see play again.
It's true that the card doesn't necessarily add to the storm count, but what it does is make the deck faster and more consistent. In decks that take advantage of it, it can potentially move the deck's fundamental turn up by a full turn. I used to play Spring Tide, and I can say that there were many a time when I fizzled for want of one more mana. This allows storm decks to both speed up and push through a combo in the face of, say, a Wasteland activation on a needed nonbasic. As you pointed out, though, this will probably be best in combo decks not gunning for a storm count, but which are instead concerned more with pure speed.

But still...imagine how obscene a deck like TES would be if it could win turn one more than 50% of the time. Wizards would (hopefully) come down on the format with the Banhammer then, and it wouldn't be tolling for Goblins.

[Complete_Jank]

B - Root of Evil
Instant
Split Second
Choose target card, other than a basic land in a graveyard. Search its controller's graveyard, hand and library for all cards with the same name and remove them from the game.

I guess they figured black wasn't strong enough in Legacy. People complained that they were sick of Goblin's, Threshold, and Solidarity as the only playable decks.

Wake up guys, I think Wizards answered the cries in Time Spiral and Planer Chaos.



B - Root of Evil
Instant
Split Second
Only play this spell after you have used other removal or hand disruption to place a threat into a graveyard to insure you will never see the problem again.

Fixed

For God's sake they could have at least made it a Sorcery.

[Ta Jugs]

You actually think wizards would print a card because of or even having the legacy format in mind. My my my you have so much to learn.

[MasterBlaster]

Torchling 3RR
Creature - Shapeshifter
R: Torchling gains trample until end of turn.
R: Torchling cannot be the target or Spells or Abilities until end of turn.
R: Untap Torchling
1: Torchling gets +1/-1 until end of turn.
1: Torchling gets -1/+1 until end of turn.
3/3

Is this as bad as I think it is? Who would have guessed that changing the color of a card would make it so horrible.

[Getsickanddie]

Torchling 3RR
Creature - Shapeshifter
R: Torchling gains trample until end of turn.
R: Torchling cannot be the target or Spells or Abilities until end of turn.
R: Untap Torchling
1: Torchling gets +1/-1 until end of turn.
1: Torchling gets -1/+1 until end of turn.
3/3

Is this as bad as I think it is? Who would have guessed that changing the color of a card would make it so horrible.

Shit, where is Teeniebopper when you need him. You seem to forget they initially printed morphling in red, but they just refered to it as Hill Giant.

[Vardaman]

It doesn't fly. :\

I don't think an exact reprint of Morphling in red would be that busted.

[xsockmonkeyx]

I think that Dawn Charm is going to be better suited for wombat than the white force spike. Its both a fog and a guilded light for non-storm spells. Too bad it doesnt cycle. :/

[noobslayer]

Whether wizards did this with legacy in mind is virtually irrelevant. What matters is it will see play.

[Bane of the Living]

Extirpate is the name of the single black mana bomb chase rare of the set.

Rough//Tumble looks like a great alternative to pyroclasm.

Hunting Wilds looks like a super charged Rude Awakening that will be usefull in the mid game.

Reckless Wurm is here, look for an Übermadness update soon. Seems its worth splashing for Anger now..

[edgewalker]

Any news on this supposed green ichorid? Oh and I like how this set is shaping out. I'm really happy about the wurm too, it might make 3c madness viable. I like the cycle of red split cards too. Especially the red geddon, might not be great in eternal but it'll be good in standard.

[etrigan]

Recycle is getting planeshifted to Black.

I always though Recycle would be a good combo card, but double G mana cost really limited its use. Now that I can Ritual it into play, I think there's a lot of potential here for a viable combo deck to arise based around the idea.

[scrumdogg]

Extirpate is the name of the single black mana bomb chase rare of the set.

Rough//Tumble looks like a great alternative to pyroclasm.

Agreed, especially since Rough/Tumble looks like it may be common....but between reprints of Pyroclasm & this, no one will be without access to cheap board sweep. Legacy is going to become a lot like Standard when Cranial Extraction entered the environment, I believe, with positioning to see who can get Extirpate superiority. It will be more interesting, tjhough, since it isn't a mindless race to cast first but the ability to bait & cast, or force it into the yard & then cast.......


Hunting Wilds looks like a super charged Rude Awakening that will be usefull in the mid game.

How? Unless they change the wording, you only untap the lands put into play this way (X=2) 2x 3/3 for 8 mana is not that exciting......


Reckless Wurm is here, look for an Übermadness update soon. Seems its worth splashing for Anger now..

There should be all sorts of Madness exploration now with a critical mass of good black Madness cards finally. R/G is a no brainer starting point for the deck between 8x Trampling Wurms, Anger, etc etc etc but there will be plenty of choice whether to stay R/G or go R/G/u or G/R/b

[Aggro_zombies]

Recycle is getting planeshifted to Black.

I always though Recycle would be a good combo card, but double G mana cost really limited its use. Now that I can Ritual it into play, I think there's a lot of potential here for a viable combo deck to arise based around the idea.
It costs six mana, though. To make it work, you need to have more than six mana, 2 of it black, to get any same-turn benefit out of the spell. And you know that if you wait to combo off until the next turn, this thing will draw removal like a light draws moths.

[Drathro]

This is *total speculation*, but in this article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/bd219), BDM talks about the possibility of a {U}{B} Sylvan Library. I haven't yet seen any PC Timeshifted multicolor cards, so...

As if! With the goodies it looks like they are giving Black in PC (can you say Wrath boys and girls?), I find it highly unlikely that the "Dimir Library" will be in PC. Hey, a guy can dream, can't he?

[Cait_Sith]

Torchling 3RR
Creature - Shapeshifter
R: Target creature blocks Torchling this turn if able.
R: Change the target of target spell that targets only Torchling.
R: Untap Torchling
1: Torchling gets +1/-1 until end of turn.
1: Torchling gets -1/+1 until end of turn.
3/3


It is a shock with legs. It is an over glorified shock on legs, nothing more.

[TorpidNinja]

Shrouded Lore B
Sorcery
An opponent chooses a card in your graveyard. You may pay {B}. If you do, that opponent chooses a card not already chosen for Shrouded Lore. You may repeat this process any number of times. Put the last chosen card in your hand.

So, they're time shifting Forgotten Lore from green to black. Extirpate aside, this card kicks a little ass for me with a sufficiently efficient cost for early utility reusal. Your first turn Dark Ritual is now four mana and 3 spells for storm. Or it will let you reuse those early disruption cards more surgically (they'll effectively have the choice between augmenting your mana production or giving you hand disruption; land, ritual, duress, lore.)

I'm just having difficulty on where to go from there in terms of combo possibilities.

[ForceofWill]

hrm I could see that being played in a deck with Grimlavamancer or Jotun Grunt.

[Happy Gilmore]

Meh, with only 22 cards left for MTGsalvation to reveal I can't see Planar Chaos impacting Legacy in a serious way.

The black spit-second card is the only one that I can see making a splash imo.

[ForceofWill]

There are some nice cards but nothing mindblowing.

[Vardaman]

What's today's preview card? (it's blocked here)

[Nightmare]

What's today's preview card? (it's blocked here)Recycle, planeshifted into black.

[Vardaman]

Recycle, planeshifted into black.

Thanks.

[TheDarkshineKnight]

Mesa Enchantress
Creature - Human Druid (TS)
Whenever you play an enchantment spell, you may draw a card.

0/2

What is zis? White Verduran Enchantress? Yum.

[Cait_Sith]

It sucks. GIVE ME A WHITE ARGOTHIAN! Please. Verduran dies to every removal spell in Standard (bar, 3?) and so does her white buddy. In Legacy I think there are like 3 additional Removal spells that don't get rid of her.

[xsockmonkeyx]

Venarian Glimpse - XU
Instant
Target player reveals his hand. Choose a nonland card with converted manacosts X or less. That player discards this card.


Wow. More instant discard for blue. Does blue really need this card instead of a counterspell?

[Cait_Sith]

Yes, yes it does. It will fit in nicely in someones 300 Card Counter Mono Blue Battle of Wits Deck.

[Drathro]

I'm pretty disappointed with the {B}{G} sliver:

Dark Heart Sliver
{B}{G}
Creature - Sliver
2/2
All Slivers have "Sacrifice this creature: Gain 3 Life"

I was hoping for something more impressive. :mad:

Now that I've said that, it will probably become the centerpiece of a masterful new deck.

[xsockmonkeyx]

Yes, yes it does. It will fit in nicely in someones 300 Card Counter Mono Blue Battle of Wits Deck.

Touché, Sith, touché.

[Bane of the Living]

Wow.

I know I shouldnt be that excited about Recycle as a black card but then again it is the same color as Dark Ritual, and Cabal Ritual, and Tendrils.....


Sulfur Elemental 2R
Creature - Elemental
Flash
White creatures get +1/-1.
3/2

That looks really good for extended. Kill off all your opponents Decree tokens or take out Soltari Priest and Savannah Lions.




How? Unless they change the wording, you only untap the lands put into play this way (X=2) 2x 3/3 for 8 mana is not that exciting......


Damn I didnt see that whole put into play this way part of the card. That makes it suck.

[Vardaman]

I'm pretty disappointed with the {B}{G} sliver:

Dark Heart Sliver
{B}{G}
Creature - Sliver
2/2
All Slivers have "Sacrifice this creature: Gain 3 Life"

I was hoping for something more impressive. :mad:

Now that I've said that, it will probably become the centerpiece of a masterful new deck.

It kicks the shit out of Victual Sliver and referencing Dark Heart of the Wood has got to give it some points. :p

[Cait_Sith]

Mr. Nightmare is on a deleting spree! W00t!

There is a a vindicate sliver.

Necrotic Sliver 1WB
Creature - Sliver (U)

Each sliver has "3, sacrifice this creature: Destroy target permanent."

2/2

[xsockmonkeyx]

Six mana vindicate, whoopie!! Its powerful, but slow as molasses. If this guy is going to be having any impact on the board you were probably already winning anyway.

I like the Dark Heart sliver much better. At the very least its like a mini Baloth.

[Cait_Sith]

I could see The Rock maindecking some just because it is a good gobs answer and gives you life to most removal.

[TorpidNinja]

Did anyone notice the Grizzly Bear that gets a +1/+1 counter for every life an opponent gains?

I've always wanted an excuse to play Invigorate and Skyshroud Cutter. Added hilarity if a big Piledriver is coming your way and you're holding Swords. Who cares if the opp just gained 16 life? They'll lose it and more next turn.

[freakish777]

Did anyone notice the Grizzly Bear that gets a +1/+1 counter for every life an opponent gains?

I've always wanted an excuse to play Invigorate and Skyshroud Cutter. Added hilarity if a big Piledriver is coming your way and you're holding Swords. Who cares if the opp just gained 16 life? They'll lose it and more next turn.

It has trample too. I misread, I thought it was much better (+1/+1 whenever you gain life, which would have been rediculous).

[TorpidNinja]

It has trample too. I misread, I thought it was much better (+1/+1 whenever you gain life, which would have been rediculous).

Then we both misread, because I totally missed the fact that it has trample. There's a lot of cards that could make this a terribly powerful creature, effectively negating the already inconsequential life gain "detriment" of Swords.

-Terribly cheap
-Large potential power (whille still having a sufficient body to begin with)
-Invigorate makes it a 9/9 trampler for free and leaves it a 5/5

Who needs Wearbear?

[Clark Kant]

IMO, the best cards in the set are...

1. Damnation

2. Tomb of Yawgmoth
...
3. Expirate and Everything else.

As you can probably figure out, I'm very much a fan of black, and this set definately has me excited.

[Lego]

1) I got my ass raped by that stupid Kavu a couple days ago. Then we played 5 more games, and he lost to Swords, bigger creatures, Chalice, more Swords, and bad draws. But at least one game he was sweet.

2) A 2/2 for 2 that sacs for three life? How could people not think this is good? It seems to me to be on par with Spike Feeder if you're in those colors.

[Cait_Sith]

No, it does suck. It sucks so badly you should send every copy you crack open to me for immediate disposal. Don't hesitate or this card will corrupt you like a Squire.

I must say I wasn't too disappointed with the slivers. Sinew, Cautery, and Darkheart are all nice card.

[mikekelley]

I bought one box.

I got a playset of Akromas.

I'm not complaining, small sets usually yield some repeats in a box.

But damn...

[Pinder]

I must say I wasn't too disappointed with the slivers. Sinew, Cautery, and Darkheart are all nice card.

Don't forget Necrotic. A 2/2 beater for 3 that happens to carry a Vindicate with it? Certainly not bad.

[n00bas4urus_r3x]

i was at a release tourny, and with 20 people present, 7 akromas were opened...it was a little sick