Would You Allow A Sloppy Shuffler To Shuffle Your Expensive Deck?

[Cavius The Great]

I know a lot of people may have experienced this once or twice in all their years of playing Magic. With most people this isn't an issue but you may come across a bad apple every now and then. What would you do if you came across a bad shuffler and your deck included a large array of valuable cards? This may pertain more to Vintage but it is a universal question. If a sloppy shuffler started to shuffle and "mangle" your deck, would you:

A) Tell him to stop

B) Grab the deck from his hands and scold him

C) Let him keep shuffling not caring

D) Call a judge and let him handle it

After answering those questions, please give a brief explanation as to why you made that choice.

I realize that your opponent shuffling your deck is a perfectly regulated rule of the DCI. But I'm convinced that the ruling may be flawed for the very reason of encountering careless people. If you came across a "sloppy shuffler" what would you do?

[Nightmare]

D) It's your only option at REL3 and above, and really below that too, since by the rules your opponent has the right to (or HAS to) shuffle your deck.

Realistically, as soon as I see him start to suck, I ask him to be careful. If it persists, judge.

[Vardaman]

Can you ask judges to shuffle instead?

[JACO]

If your opponent is not being respectful to your deck and cards, just call a judge over immediately. You may have the judges shuffle your deck any time your opponent would shuffle.

[Complete_Jank]

If they are sloppy and reveal a card, they get a game loss.

The only shuffle I really care about is a riffle shuffle.

If your opponent smells bad, also call a judge.

[BeeblesofLife]

I hate riffle shufflers...Some fucker at a local tourni broke like 10 of my sleeves,
Then proceeded to bend two of my very expensive foils before i managed to turn my head back and tell him to drop the deck.

And Stan B. if you are reading this, I hope that you quit magic and live to never shuffle a deck of cards again.

[Hoojo]

When I present my deck to them I ask them to pile shuffle and cut it a few times. If they want to riffle, unless I know they are a decent shuffler, they do it slowly and no bending. Two piles, one card at a time.

I NEVER riffle shuffle my opponents deck without asking them first.

[Complete_Jank]

Best way to piss off your opponent is to riffle shuffle their deck. I know people that do it first purposely to get their opponent on edge if they have never played them before.

I can't stand it, and think of it like someone keying my car, and I'd never do that to someone.

[Citrus-God]

There are some people who are careful when they riffle shuffle.... like me, but then again, I get up flashing like half my deck to my opponents.... kinda sucks, so dont riffle people.

[Cait_Sith]

If my grandmother, who does not play Magic, wanted to riffle my deck, fine. Otherwise no. Just, no.

[TeenieBopper]

just an FYI, riffle shuffling is the DCI endorsed way of shuffling a deck and if you call a judge over to shuffle, chances are they're going to riffle shuffle. My suggestion? A) Ask them to "crush" shuffle, or, my preferred method, stop getting your panties in a bunch and don't play with foils, BB, or 'pimp' stuff.

[TorpidNinja]

Assuming nothing of a person's ability to shuffle, it's important to note that, so long as they're not being irresponsible with your cards, it's really their call as to how they shuffle your deck.

You can certainly request that they shuffle a different way, but it's ultimately at their discretion.

Mind you, I find that I will riffle shuffle based on the quality of sleeves that my opponent is using. Generally, the higher the quality sleeves, the easier it is to riffle shuffle rather than alternatives.

If they're using those crap sleeves and I'm concerned that it'll do harm to their deck, obviously pile shuffling will work the best.

[dahcmai]

That's why I never show up to sanctioned events anymore. There's always one person who just has to ruin the fun. I am an old school player and still kind of regard this shuffling of your opponents deck insulting. Though with all the worthless people who would cheat anymore I can see why the rule exists.

Rules lawyers and having to get smart with them is what killed me from ever showing up to a major tournament again. Haven't been since I won a major 1.5 tournament back in 96 or so. I'm glad I don't have to worry about that stuff at our local tournaments.

[Drathro]

It's my experience that the whole "my opponent shouldn't ever shuffle my deck" movement is a pretty small minority. It's part of the game, and most people accept and expect that their opponent will shuffle their deck. So far, I haven't had any problems ... That's is not to say that I would be OK with an opponent damaging my cards, just that normal play wear, even in sleeves, is part of the cardboard game.

[wmagzoo7]

Never in a million years do I let my opponent do it especially since in the legacy tournaments I play in which are generally small you will just make a final cut because most people play with pimped out decks.

[jazzykat]

just an FYI, riffle shuffling is the DCI endorsed way of shuffling a deck and if you call a judge over to shuffle, chances are they're going to riffle shuffle. My suggestion? A) Ask them to "crush" shuffle, or, my preferred method, stop getting your panties in a bunch and don't play with foils, BB, or 'pimp' stuff.

For 1.5 where the most expensive card you are playing with is not going to exceed $50 on most occaisions maybe riffle shuffling is OK. I strongly ask you to consider playing a fully powered deck + drains or workshops and allow me to riffle shuffle them. Especially, when you couldn't affor mint ones and have cards that have been played heavily, every riffle takes it a little closer to actually creasing or just plain falling apart.
When I played Waterbury, I didn't see a single riffle shuffle unless it was done by the owner of the deck.

With quality sleeves a good interleaving shuffle performed 10 times with a cut or two between each one should do a pretty good job of randomizing the deck.

[mikekelley]

You mean riffling as in, taking two halves, bending them, and 'snapping' them together to get them to interweave, correct?

[jazzykat]

@MikeKelly - That is exactly my take.

[Anarky87]

For 1.5 where the most expensive card you are playing with is not going to exceed $50 on most occaisions maybe riffle shuffling is OK. I strongly ask you to consider playing a fully powered deck + drains or workshops and allow me to riffle shuffle them.

Cardboard is cardboard and if I want to shuffle that deck, then I'm gonna shuffle that deck regardless of what high priced gobbly gook you have in there. Maybe I just come from a group that really isn't so wishy washy about my cards. It's not like you're riffle shuffling babies or good china. I've riffled quite a few fully powered decks and never once have I seen the other player's head explode because I did.

Now if they were hacking it to pieces and splitting sleeves, I'd probably ask them to chill out and take it easy on my cards. The only problem I sometimes I have at major events that require new sleeves is how damn slick they are. At Gencon, I went to shuffle one dudes deck and the thing literally exploded in my hands, shooting cards all over the place. He was kinda miffed about that, but didn't call a judge or anything, although after that I was then able to deduce that he was playing Goblins. Tech. ;)

[wmagzoo7]

The reason I personally wouldn't want to have someone riffle my deck is that a. I don't want you to shuffle my already bent deck since it is all foils. I can hardly riffle my own deck since you have to shuffle it to try and unbend it and that creases the cards even more. B it is soo easy for my opponent to sneak a few peaks with a nice lazy and big riffle shuffle. Also some people really can't shuffle and therefore should not be shuffling when they do stupid things that piss me off such as break sleaves etc.

[TorpidNinja]

You mean riffling as in, taking two halves, bending them, and 'snapping' them together to get them to interweave, correct?
I take back my comment in part then. I was under the impression that riffle shuffling was simply cutting the deck and then slotting the two halves back together (which doesn't bend the cards in the least unless your a moron.) This is the shuffling I'm wont to do as, with sleeves, it's much easier and faster than pile shuffling.

[seer]

Cardboard is cardboard and if I want to shuffle that deck, then I'm gonna shuffle that deck regardless of what high priced gobbly gook you have in there. Maybe I just come from a group that really isn't so wishy washy about my cards. It's not like you're riffle shuffling babies or good china. I've riffled quite a few fully powered decks and never once have I seen the other player's head explode because I did.

Now if they were hacking it to pieces and splitting sleeves, I'd probably ask them to chill out and take it easy on my cards. The only problem I sometimes I have at major events that require new sleeves is how damn slick they are. At Gencon, I went to shuffle one dudes deck and the thing literally exploded in my hands, shooting cards all over the place. He was kinda miffed about that, but didn't call a judge or anything, although after that I was then able to deduce that he was playing Goblins. Tech. ;)



1. Your opponent at GenCon should have called a Judge and you would have received the proper punishment for exposing his deck.
2. I find that people with an attitude such as yours are those who borrow entire decks or own very few cards. I am annoyed by such attitudes. We aren't on the pro tour here. It is fun to see really pimp decks and it is a shame that attitudes such as this discourage people from playing them.

[Happy Gilmore]

I've had more than one opponent call a judge because I was 7pile shuffling their deck (mostly bad players and shady characters). I do this for four reasons:

1. They either had their deck suffled before I got to the table
2. They didn't pile shuffle
3. I want to know if they are running 60,61, or 59 which has happened to me.
4. I know they are playing Combo and number 2 has happened.

For reference most pro players do this every single game. However I generally only pile shuffle game one because I cannot be sure of the player or the deck. And since I can see what they do games 2-3 its not as important.