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outsideangel
02-13-2007, 03:27 AM
Some time ago Type 1 underwent a serious boom, with lots of new players and a renewed interest in the format. This has been attributed to a variety of factors that affected the format at the time, but for now I'd like to talk about one:

Proxy tournaments.

Allowing the use of proxies (basic lands with the name of a card written on them, along with, typically, the cards cost and ablities) made Type 1 much more accessible to the mainstream, who weren't able or weren't willing to drop serious loads of cash (thousands of dollars) on expensive old cards. It started with only a few tournaments allowing a small number of proxies, but largely in part due to the popularity of proxy tournaments, specifically Starcity Games P9 tournaments, allowing the use of proxies soon caught on.

With only 5 proxies, the entry barrier was still relatively high, because players still needed to acquire playsets of powerful cards like Mana Drain, Mishra's Workshop, and Bazaar of Bagdad, though a few decks, like Fish, could be run with only 5. Later, when 10 proxy tournaments came along, a whole plethora of decks opened up to players on a tighter budget. Of course, dual lands, Force of Wills, and the like were still a requirement, but at the time they were still relatively affordable.

Some Type 1 community members backed the idea of proxies, relishing the attention their format was getting as it brought new players, new innovations, and more competitve events. Other players appreciated being able to use proxies because it allowed even some established Type 1 players to play new and different decks easily, without having to buy many new cards.

Other players, however, firmly opposed the idea. Some felt that allowing proxies "cheapened" their own investments; they felt that, since they had had to buy the cards, everyone else should have to as well. "I had to pay and so should you!" was not uncommonly hear among players who opposed proxies. Others from this camp thought that having many new players rushing in to play Type 1 would degrade the standards of their format: they felt that, because of proxies, any new scrub could throw together a list and play, and that this was a bad thing because it brought the average skill among players of the format down. Still others felt that substituting basic lands with magic marker on them ruined the aesthetic of the game.

Now, being a poor (then high-school) student, I was an avid supporter of proxy use. I have always believed that the game should be about skill, not about the money you can drop on expensive cards. Further, an increased player base is almost always good for the format.

In Type 1, proxies made a lot of sense, as the cards being proxied went for several hundred dollars, far out of the reach of the average player. Now, I won't pretend that Legacy cards are anywhere near the price of the Power 9, but with dual lands steadily climbing in price, (soon to reach $50 dollars for Seas!) is it time for Legacy to begin considering what role, if any, the use of proxies in tournament settings could play in making the format more accessible and attractive to new players?

Getsickanddie
02-13-2007, 04:10 AM
Now, I won't pretend that Legacy cards are anywhere near the price of the Power 9, but with dual lands steadily climbing in price, (soon to reach $50 dollars for Seas!) is it time for Legacy to begin considering what role, if any, the use of proxies in tournament settings could play in making the format more accessible and attractive to new players?

Probably, but I don't think you'll find many supporters of proxy use on this forum. Personally I feel that there should be more legacy events that allow proxies. I'm sure there are a lot of players who may be interested in Legacy, but aren't willing to shell out the money to buy the higher-end cards. I know in Syracuse I've seen many players dabble in Legacy with whatever cards they had, only to get discouraged by numerous poor performance against more pricey decks.

Atwa
02-13-2007, 06:48 AM
If you start allowing proxies in Legacy, you can also start allowing them in Extended and Standard.

Most of the time the decks are worth about the same. The only cards people would proxie are the duals, which are about the same price as the expensive Standard staples.

Other cards which people could proxie are maybe Berserk, Chains and maybe Nether Void, all cards which don't see play anyway. I really can't affort to pay 200-300 dollar each year to play competive Standard, I'm not asking to allow proxies there too, am I?

Silverdragon
02-13-2007, 07:44 AM
If you start allowing proxies in Legacy, you can also start allowing them in Extended and Standard.

Most of the time the decks are worth about the same. The only cards people would proxie are the duals, which are about the same price as the expensive Standard staples.

Other cards which people could proxie are maybe Berserk, Chains and maybe Nether Void, all cards which don't see play anyway. I really can't affort to pay 200-300 dollar each year to play competive Standard, I'm not asking to allow proxies there too, am I?
That's exactly what I was thinking. Legacy is not that much more expensive than Standard or Extended. One could argue that Standard and to a lesser extend Extended are even more expensive because you have to buy a whole lot of new cards after an old block rotates out so while you have to invest heavily to get a decent manabase and some other staples in Legacy this is a one-time investment.

Obfuscate Freely
02-13-2007, 11:14 AM
...with dual lands steadily climbing in price, (soon to reach $50 dollars for Seas!) is it time for Legacy to begin considering what role, if any, the use of proxies in tournament settings could play in making the format more accessible and attractive to new players?
A quick check (http://www.magictraders.com/pricelists/current-magic-weekly) on Magictraders.com shows that Seas are holding pretty stable around $30, which is barely higher than they were a year ago, and nowhere near $50. As others have said, Legacy is pretty much just as accessible as Standard or Extended.

I think an important thing to consider here is that Wizards is actually trying to use Legacy as the format for high-level events. If the Legacy community were to embrace proxies, I think that it may make Wizards think twice about planning any more Legacy GPs.

Of course, card availability is likely a major reason Wizards hasn't held more Legacy events, but that issue can't be solved with proxies.

Di
02-13-2007, 11:15 AM
Legacy as a format was made so it was accessible to larger range of players, hence why expensive cards were banned. The most expensive cards in decks these days are either unplayed, or dual lands. Aside from duals, the cards aren't really that expensive, and even then duals aren't so bad. If you can't fork over the cash to have some dual lands, why are you even trying to play competitive Legacy to begin with? It's a bit different when the cards are $300+, that's by far understandable. But a playset of the most expensive played cards in this format is what, like $120-130 tops? Come on. Trade a little or something.

Legacy is a format that demands commitment to be successful. Of course, you could stick to a mono-color, not-Reset deck, which would be cheap, but then everyone will point and laugh at you when you're at the bottom tables after round 4.

Basically, no proxies.

calosso
02-13-2007, 11:20 AM
A quick check (http://www.magictraders.com/pricelists/current-magic-weekly) on Magictraders.com shows that Seas are holding pretty stable around $30, which is barely higher than they were a year ago, and nowhere near $50. As others have said, Legacy is pretty much just as accessible as Standard or Extended.

I wouldn't say that legacy is as accessible as Extended and Standard because all of the major legacy staples are very hardto find, for example Force, duals, and even Lackey.

Extened has the fetchlands and there own sets of duals which are about 10-15 dollers cheaper, and Standard only has the duals and some staple rares like hellkire and teferi which are only 8-10. So n,o they really aren't similar.

Nightmare
02-13-2007, 11:25 AM
Of course, you could stick to a mono-color, not-Reset deck, which would be cheap, but then everyone will point and laugh at you when you're at the bottom tables after round 4.Note that this result can be achieved by playing Survival decks, as well.

Proxies in Legacy is a terrible idea. And the fastest way to see all support from Wizards end immediately.


I wouldn't say that legacy is as accessible as Extended and Standard because all of the major legacy staples are very hardto find, for example Force, duals, and even Lackey.


I beg (http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&satitle=force+of+will+mtg) to (http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&from=R10&satitle=dual+land+mtg+-ravnica+-guildpact+-dissention&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=13204&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&fgtp=) differ (http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&satitle=goblin+lackey).

Vintage, on the other hand, needs proxies.

Drathro
02-13-2007, 11:31 AM
I sympathize with the sentiment that some people just can't afford to buy all the cards they need, because I'm one of them. For example, the first duals I ever owned, I won on the back of a deck that was more than 50% borrowed, because I couldn't afford the cards.

That being said, there is another reason that some people (like me) dislike basic-land proxies: card recognition. There is a very visual aspect to playing this game, which is significantly thrown off by proxies which do not even remotely resemble the intended card. To put it in geek-speak terms, being able to recognize the card without having to read it helps you "grok"* the game state.

Proxies and modded cards are part of the Vintage system. Players prepare for Vintage with the expectation that they might see cards completely blacked out except for one little distinguishing feature. They come ready to assimilate proxy information as part of their game. It is an added level of complexity which is an established part of the Vintage game.

Legacy is not currently set up this way. Sure, you may see some minor alteration to the art, but generally a card is recognizable by at least color, name and text. Basic-land proxies would change this aspect of the game.

Does that mean I think proxies would be bad for Legacy? I'll grant that they could make Legacy more accessible, and therefore possibly more popular, but you should consider the other effects it would have, both financial and changes to in-game play.

*I despise the term "grok," but maybe it will help some understand my point.

AnwarA101
02-13-2007, 11:33 AM
I bought 2 Underground Seas from a dealer for 35 dollars each about a month ago. Then I saw this weekend that to get Hallowed Fountains from Starcity was about 24 dollars. I don't know but the cost of Legacy doesn't look that high. Our local store in Northern Virginia is selling Force of Will for 20 dollars. I'm not sure the cost of Legacy is really that high at all. Sure if you need to build a deck from scratch then ofcourse it will be expensive, but so will Standard and Extended decks.

Tacosnape
02-13-2007, 11:54 AM
The fastest way to get support for Legacy and get people playing it without any proxies of any sort is to get rid of Extended.

Not that this is necessarily the -best- solution, but it's a fun one to imagine. It's like saying if a government really wanted to stop an illegal drug problem, they'd start poisoning the drugs.

Deep6er
02-13-2007, 12:09 PM
Usually I'd throw something in here about how I won a lot of duals with my own mono colored deck, but I'll see if I can contributrute to the conversation instead. I don't really think proxies will help. After all, at the last Mana Leak Open, very few people used the proxy option and I don't remember there being a larger turnout due to the availability of proxies. Granted, this was a one time occurrence, however, I'm inclined to believe that proxies are unnecessary at best. I do however acknowledge the fact that playing any multicolored deck in Legacy does create the need to play duals and fetches. It's a bit of money, but that's why I always recommend monored Goblins to anyone who says they want to get into Legacy. Goblins, with its consistency and power, easily allows newer players to win, and that can let them get some duals to start investing in other decks if they so choose. I don't think the availability of proxies will help that process. The other advantage to Goblins is its forgiveness. Even though it's pilots aren't always competent, that deck can carry people on a fucking stretcher to the Top 8. Without the learning curve that will help the newer players get better, they'll jump into whatever deck catches their fancy because of proxies (possibly). Which would lead to misunderstandings and mistakes with decks that aren't as forgiving. Which could, in turn, lead to them leaving the format. Anyway, that's what I think.

Lego
02-13-2007, 12:16 PM
After all, at the last Mana Leak Open, very few people used the proxy option and I don't remember there being a larger turnout due to the availability of proxies.

Actually, I think the turnout was +1 due to proxies.

Atwa
02-13-2007, 02:26 PM
Usually I'd throw something in here about how I won a lot of duals with my own mono colored deck, but I'll see if I can contributrute to the conversation instead. I don't really think proxies will help.

You and you alone are the cause that that mono coloured deck has increased in price significant.

I bought 2 resets from a dutch webstore for 5 euro, when I looked to buy the other two a month later, so I could finish my casual high tide deck I had to pay 50 euro for the last two. That's a increase of 900%. Thanks btw for that, but that's not the point.

Everyone who wants to play competive magic has to pay for it, it's as simple as that. And about standard and extended not being expensive: I can remember the time starcitygames sold ravagers and jittes for over 22 dollar, that didný stop people from playing them, did it? You can also buy duals for that amount of money.

Getsickanddie
02-13-2007, 03:00 PM
Everyone who wants to play competive magic has to pay for it, it's as simple as that. And about standard and extended not being expensive: I can remember the time starcitygames sold ravagers and jittes for over 22 dollar, that didný stop people from playing them, did it? You can also buy duals for that amount of money.

Yes, but if they are already dropping cash on supported formats, it is very likely they may not be willing to spend a ton on Legacy staples. Also, let's not forget that all the cards you need for Standard can be found in retail priced booster packs. So you draft, you buy a pack here or there, maybe a box. BOOM you have some standard viable cards you can use in a deck, or trade for what you need. Some of you may think this is silly, but availibility is a huge issue here, and people LIKE opening product.



Proxies in Legacy is a terrible idea. And the fastest way to see all support from Wizards end immediately.

I doubt we'll se much more support down the line without some major changes to Legacy. IF this format picks up some substantial popularity card prices are going to shoot up, and card scarcity will become a problem. Both these issues would likely make Legacy unsupportable by Wizards without some major changes to the B&R, or reprinting of reserved cards. Now on the other hand if this format stagnates, or begins to lose followers Wizards will probably quit supporting it as well. It seems like a no-win situation without some major policy changes by wizards.


Our local store in Northern Virginia is selling Force of Will for 20 dollars.

The store formerly known as Altered States sells them for somewhere close to $40 if I remember correctly.

mikekelley
02-13-2007, 03:06 PM
Anyone who pays 40 dollars for Force of Will or anyone who sells them at that price is an idiot, plain and simple. I can walk downtown and pick up three or four for 18 bucks a piece, less if I'm patient and wait on ebay.

And the difference between T2 and 1.5 is this...Within a three week period, trading only cards on MOTL, I put together an entire Trisketron deck. I have been working on UGr Thresh for a couple of months now, and am down to needing 2 volcanic islands before i'm done with it. I have plenty of trade fodder to throw into those decks, people are just much crankier about parting with a revised dual or something than a rav dual.

Even if a type 2 hot card goes for 25 bucks, it is so much easier than a force of will to get, even if the FoW costs 20. People are much more willing to trade around the latest hot potato type 2 cards.

Nightmare
02-13-2007, 03:19 PM
Altered sells Forces for 28, because people buy them at 28. Usually they are sold out of them at that price. Note that it's one of the few high-end cards you can actually use store credit on.

Getsickanddie
02-13-2007, 03:20 PM
Altered sells Forces for 28, because people buy them at 28. Usually they are sold out of them at that price. Note that it's one of the few high-end cards you can actually use store credit on.

Wow. Did they actually LOWER a price? It's been quite some time since I've actually looked to buy singles there.

herbig
02-13-2007, 03:39 PM
Actually, I think the turnout was +1 due to proxies.

I got it.

Anyways, I think proxy use for Legacy is unnecessary and would only cause Wizards to pull what little support they provide. As Deep6er said, trading for one competitive deck will allow you to win the cards necessary to branch out. I think Standard is a much more expensive format, because of the need to constantly update your collection.

Firebrothers
02-13-2007, 04:08 PM
Yeah proxies take away from the collectible part of collectible card game. Plus if you ask I am sure there are plenty of kind, thoughtful, handsome legacy players around to borrow cards from.

Deep6er
02-13-2007, 04:55 PM
You and you alone are the cause that that mono coloured deck has increased in price significant.

I bought 2 resets from a dutch webstore for 5 euro, when I looked to buy the other two a month later, so I could finish my casual high tide deck I had to pay 50 euro for the last two. That's a increase of 900%. Thanks btw for that, but that's not the point.




Wow. That's a 900% increase... in how Awesome I Am! Man, I'm so funny and clever. Right?... Guys? Anyway, on a better topic. Seems to me that proxies would also hurt stores. 'Why should I buy that? I can just proxy it'. That kind of situation could easily lead to there being less of a demand for Legacy tournaments in general as stores won't be as willing to shell out expensive prize for people who never buy expensive things.

NANTUKO_SHADY
02-13-2007, 05:29 PM
Yeah proxies take away from the collectible part of collectible card game. Plus if you ask I am sure there are plenty of kind, thoughtful, handsome legacy players around to borrow cards from.



Like Lego Army Man. As far as I know, every tournament he attends he offers to shell out not only cards, but complete decks as well!

kirdape3
02-13-2007, 06:13 PM
The number of high-value OOPs that are Legacy-playable with low enough print runs to make proxies necessary is extraordinarily small - and nobody plays them anyways. Cards like Grim Tutor and Time Vault (pre-errata) are strong enough to play, but not very many did because good luck finding them.

If however Wizards of the Coast wishes to keep promoting Legacy, proxies are not viable, no matter the cost to acquire the cards or their limited availability.

Machinus
02-13-2007, 06:24 PM
Definitely no proxies. There are many reasons, as previously stated in this thread. Let me recap the important ones:

Theorem 1 - You don't need proxies when no deck plays with cards as rare/expensive as Grim Tutor. If you can't afford Tropical Islands, then don't play Legacy.

Corollary 1 - You actually don't even need dual lands. Islands and Mountains are often just better.

Theorem 2 - Behaving in a manner agreeable to WotC is vital to the health of the format.

troopatroop
02-13-2007, 07:32 PM
Definitely no proxies. There are many reasons, as previously stated in this thread. Let me recap the important ones:

Theorem 1 - You don't need proxies when no deck plays with cards as rare/expensive as Grim Tutor. If you can't afford Tropical Islands, then don't play Legacy.

Corollary 1 - You actually don't even need dual lands. Islands and Mountains are often just better.

Theorem 2 - Behaving in a manner agreeable to WotC is vital to the health of the format.

Corollary 2 - You actually don't even need IBA. Hatfields and Gearhart are often just better.

APriestOfGix
02-14-2007, 09:13 PM
i never had the cash for legacy and i'm playing...

i started with sligh as it took top 2 at worlds (2005) and was mono colored and though it would be my last deck ever.

i then moved to belcher because of it's low cost and it was really fun to play.

I haven't move on yet because of budget (have to pay for car insurance now) and i have grown attached to the deck, but im 100% sure on my low income job of tutoring at school (4 hours a week @ $15 and hour= 60 bucks a week) i could build stax (one of the most expensive decks) in a few mounths if you use all your resources.


tips to people looking to make decks cheap:

1. Play an underplayed deck - decks that everyone plays means the cards are slightly more expensive.
2. Cut back where you can - does your mono colored deck REALLY need those 8 fetches, or can it run 8 more basic lands.
3. Borrow - Does the guy down the street own a playset of FoW? you just saved almost $100
4. Use your resources - Look at StarCityGames for basic prices, but then sit on ebay and try and beat those prices, ebay is amazing and you can get cards for 60-80% the actual value in semi-mint condition rather easy if you are willing to wait 1-2 weeks.
5. Buy only what you need, and BUY RARES LAST!!! - while your waiting to make the cash to buy your deck, play test the deck. You don't want to buy the goblin welder in stax's only to find that after 4 mounths of playing the welders arn't what you want, and you wasted $50.
6. Keep staples - don't sell FoW's for cards as you may change decks later.



these will make it really easy to build really expensive decks on a tiny or non existant budget

outsideangel
02-15-2007, 12:08 PM
If you can't afford Tropical Islands, then don't play Legacy.


I strongly dislike this attitude....it turns people away from the format. The exact same thing was said in Vintage: "If you can't buy Moxen, you don't belong here." No matter how you phrase that sort of thing, it always comes across as elitist, regardless of intent.

Keep in mind that not everyone has friends they can borrow cards/decks from, and that comparisons to Standard aren't often entirely relevant. I don't really see Legacy stealing a whole lot of support from Standard any time soon. In fact, I don't really see Legacy getting much support from Wizards period. I think we need to get Wizards to start backing the format in earnest before we have to worry about losing them.

I suppose I see a lot of potential in the more casual playerbase, players who aren't used to shelling out twenty and thirty dollars per card.

wmagzoo7
02-15-2007, 02:56 PM
I really think that if you consider that T2 is way more expensive because you have to buy more cards then you just are terrible at knowing when sets rotate. You may lose a few dollars every year or so because you bought the new set while you could just wait till the set was out for a month and have traded your rotated out staples for current staples and then the current staples for new staples as easy as can be. With Legacy you can just as easily trade your Type 2 and Extended Cards to someone or a dealer and get good cards but they are more pricey but still don't drop in price. If you don't want to cough up the cash or cards to play in a format where a single deck in general stays good for a few years at the least then why would you play the format. Paying an extra 50-100$ for a deck is not that much considering how in type 2 you are paying less but have the format swing a lot more often with a new deck getting good after around a year. Price for decks is also all relative because if you have enough cards to play type 2 competitively then you could most likely trade your deck and some cards to get a legacy deck. Type 1 is a whole different story with the proxies however...

AnwarA101
02-15-2007, 03:43 PM
If you can't afford Tropical Islands, then don't play Legacy.


I agree with outsideangel as this statement is at best inaccurate and at worst discouraging. You may not be able to afford Tropical Islands today, but that doesn't mean you should give up on playing Legacy. People are often not willing or able to spend a great deal of money on something they know very little about. That is exactly how most people get into Legacy. They show up some place local and some people are playing some strange format called Legacy. Many people won't be willing or even able to buy Tropical Islands at that point.

If you continue to play the format you may build a deck which you can afford (Goblins comes to mind) and use that to win some prizes at local tournaments. This in turn gives you access to more resources and the ability to build better or more diverse decks. It also lets you meet more experienced people in the format who may be nice enough to lend you their more expensive cards because not only do they like to help but they also want more people to join the format. Its a much more positive approach than telling people to give up.

Lego
02-15-2007, 04:00 PM
Like Lego Army Man. As far as I know, every tournament he attends he offers to shell out not only cards, but complete decks as well!

You betcha! I actually completed my third set of Swords to Plowshares solely for the off chance that I want to play Angel Stompy, and I want to lend out Threshold and Truffle Shuffle. I need to get a few more fetches so I can lend Threshold and Solidarity at the same time. Once I get those, I can play AS and lend Thresh, Truffle Shuffle, Solidarity, and Goblins. And probably other random jank like 5/3 or Affinity.

Anarky87
02-15-2007, 04:03 PM
I agree with outsideangel as this statement is at best inaccurate and at worst discouraging. You may not be able to afford Tropical Islands today, but that doesn't mean you should give up on playing Legacy. People are often not willing or able to spend a great deal of money on something they know very little about. That is exactly how most people get into Legacy. They show up some place local and some people are playing some strange format called Legacy. Many people won't be willing or even able to buy Tropical Islands at that point.

If you continue to play the format you may build a deck which you can afford (Goblins comes to mind) and use that to win some prizes at local tournaments. This in turn gives you access to more resources and the ability to build better or more diverse decks. It also lets you meet more experienced people in the format who may be nice enough to lend you their more expensive cards because not only do they like to help but they also want more people to join the format. Its a much more positive approach than telling people to give up.


This is true, I don't know how many people I know that play Standard or Extended will come with me to Legacy tournaments, but not have decks. But I also have Solidarity, White and Red Thresh, and Hanni Fish on hand to lend out. I'll even do this on my local level if someone shows up and wants to play, but doesn't immediately have the cards to play. I'll let them borrow a deck to play, and then if they get interested enough, they start borrowing less and buying more for themselves. The "Buy or go home" mentality is discouraging, if not detrimental, at best.

Machinus
02-15-2007, 05:22 PM
Tropical Island is simply a metric for what a commonly played, rare card is going to cost. It is unlikely that you will have to pay more than this for anything in the format. Therefore, Legacy is no more expensive than Extended or Standard. I should have said "if you can't afford magic cards, don't play magic," because that's the entire point of a CCG. You have to pay for the game.

There are plenty of ways to be involved in Legacy without actually owning Tropical Islands, and there are even many very good decks that don't use duals. But there are two very important limitations on this. One, as mentioned above, Magic is not free and to expect otherwise is immature. Please familiarize yourself with capitalism. Second, Legacy is not as competitive without complete access to the card pool, so there is no guarantee of complete preparedness at tournaments.

Proxies are only used in Vintage because 1) there was no power in Revised, so it is very rare, and 2) Vintage decks are ten times more expensive to build than any other format. Vintage is an extreme case, and the extreme circumstances don't apply to Legacy.

MattH
02-17-2007, 01:05 PM
Speaking of capitalism, you know what capitalism has? Banks. The analogy here is that the people who DO have the money cards should be willing to lend them out, with varying degrees of collateral/assurance demanded, depending on trust levels (i.e. I'll just hand a buddy some fetchlands but if I don't know you, I'm gonna need some assurance).

I'm surprised stores don't rent out the big money cards. Give me $31 and you can borrow an Underground Sea, and get $30 back when you give me the Sea back (minus any wear and tear). It requires players to have a lot of cash on hand but they don't actually have to spend it.

C.P.
02-18-2007, 12:19 AM
Speaking of capitalism, you know what capitalism has? Banks. The analogy here is that the people who DO have the money cards should be willing to lend them out, with varying degrees of collateral/assurance demanded, depending on trust levels (i.e. I'll just hand a buddy some fetchlands but if I don't know you, I'm gonna need some assurance).

I'm surprised stores don't rent out the big money cards. Give me $31 and you can borrow an Underground Sea, and get $30 back when you give me the Sea back (minus any wear and tear). It requires players to have a lot of cash on hand but they don't actually have to spend it.

Nice idea, but that does not really help random high schoolers who can barely afford their duals. Do you think they would have 120+ lying around for a playset of duals? When I was in high school, I did not for sure. Your idea does not really help out the ones who really is restricted by money.

wmagzoo7
02-18-2007, 10:12 AM
I'm currently in high school and while I don't have the money for the cards I have the cards to trade for the cards. Also I could probably bum money off of friends family members since I would be like give me 120 $ and i pay the 4$ extra because it works out. Sounds like a good idea but IDK how stores would react because I personally have never seen a competitive legacy tournament that was every week ever where young kids would want to play and know what good decks to play.