The State of the Magic Community

[TheStupidBurnKid]

Maybe it's not the Magic community that's the problem. Maybe it's the human race I have a problem with. You be the judge.

Over the weekend, I had a binder sprout legs on me and walk off at a Starcity tournament in Richmond. Needless to say, it hurts. I'm not sure the course of action I can take, if any, to recover the cards, but that's not the point really. The point is, it wasn't turned into the Lost and Found at the tournament. A reward was offered over the loudspeaker on my behalf, but that was a pipe dream on my part. The reward to the little s**t that took my binder was great enough as it was. Whoever it was, you know what you did, and if you sleep well tonight, you have have no soul or any conscience to speak of.

Not that it matters to them, really. They made off with a few hundred dollars worth of cards. They're riding high now. They might even just go ahead and sell everything. They might not. Hell, who cares, it's theirs now. They can do what they want with it. Burn it for all I care you piece of s**t.

Back to the point I was trying to make. What would possess a human being... no, a soulless, lower than low, pile of human excrement... to do such a thing? Isn't it obvious that this is not yours. I put my heart and soul into that binder. You didn't. Plain and simple, and... sometimes, when you're out there, slinging cards at a tournament, trading your heart away with your friends, or just chatting with random fools between rounds... you have to think about more than just winning, getting that foil steam vents for cheap, or being seen as "cool" in the eyes of your fellow card slingers. Sometimes, it's good to think about what your'e bringing to the Magic community.

Stealing does not promote a healthy environment, period.

-TheStupidBurnKid

[dahcmai]

Welcome to Earth, Don't feed the humans. Anything!


Yeah, it's sorry as shit, but it's to be expected really. There's always some POS out there willing to forgo morals and fuck anyone they think won't retaliate.

The best way to get stuff back or at least get a little vengeance on whoever took it is to spread the word on any card that was distinct. I keep a few cards in my binder that are marked. They have a little mark I know and if anyone ever got brave and stole it, I could find it just by a glance. I mark shit cards that will probabaly be in my trade forever. You know stuff like overly beat up Primal Order and things. Nothing worth a shit.

If you had a beta with a certain wear mark or card that was miscut in a certain way, that's the things to have people look for.

Otherwise, if it was a big event, you don't take a trade folder in with you and definitely don't take 2 or 4 like some guys do. If you must use one of those Ultra-pro folders with a strap on it and slip it around your foot while you play. That's what I do.

I haven't lot a card ever, so take it to heart.

[Epheniculles]

Don't trust other magic players. This goes along the same line as shuffling your opponent's deck. If you don't give them the chance to take it, it won't be taken.


That being said, don't trust women either, but that is a topic all of its own.

[Firebrothers]

I keep a few cards in my binder that are marked.

Wow, great idea. Mind if I steal it?

[Epheniculles]

I keep a few cards in my binder that are marked.

Sorry to break your hope that this will help you get your cards back, but I did this as well, and when I confronted him, along with the police, the person who had my cards just said someone traded them to him. Marking your cards does little to help.

Side note, cops couldn't really care less about magic cards, to them, they think they have no value, and treat it as such.

[Di]

Oh, you wanna talk about shit getting stolen, huh? Let's see...

- 2 playsets of English Mana Drains
- 2 Library of Alexandria
- playset of crisp mint Alpha Sinkholes
- a turboland deck right after GP: Philly with a lot of pimp goodness and valuables, including:
- playset of BB Tropical Islands
- 6 foil fetchlands (3 of them blue)
- 3 Volcanic Islands
- playset of foil Wastelands
- playset of foil Counterspells
- playset of foreign Force of Wills, each one different (1 German, 1 Spanish, 1 Portuguese, 1 Italian)
- Japanese Intuitions
- foil Crucibles of Worlds
- that list goes on, there was a LOT of expensive shit in there

That's just some of the bigger stuff I've gotten stolen and not counting all the smaller stuff. But yeah, getting things stolen sucks.

[Nightmare]

Oh, you wanna talk about shit getting stolen, huh? Let's see...

- 2 playsets of English Mana Drains
- 2 Library of Alexandria
- playset of crisp mint Alpha Sinkholes
- a turboland deck right after GP: Philly with a lot of pimp goodness and valuables, including:
- playset of BB Tropical Islands
- 6 foil fetchlands (3 of them blue)
- 3 Volcanic Islands
- playset of foil Wastelands
- playset of foil Counterspells
- playset of foreign Force of Wills, each one different (1 German, 1 Spanish, 1 Portuguese, 1 Italian)
- Japanese Intuitions
- foil Crucibles of Worlds
- that list goes on, there was a LOT of expensive shit in there

That's just some of the bigger stuff I've gotten stolen and not counting all the smaller stuff. But yeah, getting things stolen sucks.
In a "getting shit stolen" contest, Roland wins. Sorry Colin.

[Di]

Oh yea, I understand that. I'm nowhere in that league of getting shit stolen. It's not supposed to be a contest though. But the way I see both instances are kinda the same because that was basically my collection that got taken, and so did he, so.

[Tacosnape]

Side note, cops couldn't really care less about magic cards, to them, they think they have no value, and treat it as such.

This is true. I suggest you forego any affiliation with the law in the case of stolen magic cards and simply take matters into your own hands. From personal experience I can tell you that a fast headbutt to the face works wonders in disabling the thief sufficiently so as to allow the recovery of your stolen cards with interest.

Thieves are everywhere, though, not just in the magic community. Here's what you can do to protect your stash:

1. Don't bring it. This is the safest way to handle it. The downside of this is that people taking this attitude reduces trading in the magic community as a whole.

2. Keep it in something. Keep it in a backpack, the trunk of your car, or as mentioned, one of those folders that you can strap to your foot. Never leave binders just laying around if there's anyone you don't trust with your life in the vicinity.

3. If you have renter's insurance, insure your magic cards, as most renter's insurance covers theft of personal property even outside the home. This may require appraisal of your cards.

4. Keep an eye out for thieves, even if it's not your stuff. You may keep someone else from going through this, and one less thief in the magic community is one less who will steal from you.

Dishonesty is a sad thing to have to deal with, especially since it truly -is- rewarded. I know for a fact that one of the top ten Eternal players in the world earned a large portion of his ranking by stealing cards from people constantly, then using his stolen goods to offer substantial bribes in tournament matches, on occasion to the tournament director himself.

I reported the bribery to the DCI, but nothing ever came of it short of an email that the matter "Was being investigated."

Shrug.

I'm closing in fast on cracking the top 100 Eternal in the world the honest way and I'm proud of it.

This brings me to point 5.

5. Don't buy/trade with people who you know to be thieves, even if it means a ridiculously good deal for you. After awhile, I stopped trading with the aforementioned thief, because even though he would offer me ridiculously good deals, I realized a lot of the cards I had been picking up were stolen goods. It's hard to pass up deals like this, and it's easy to justify doing so morally; after all, you didn't steal the cards and therefore committed no crime. But the fact that it's so easy to get rid of high end cards quickly by giving good deals makes thieving all the easier.

[TheStupidBurnKid]

I can't post in the burn thread, or start any other threads to gripe about this... nor can i send any messages to mods

[C.P.]

4. Keep an eye out for thieves, even if it's not your stuff. You may keep someone else from going through this, and one less thief in the magic community is one less who will steal from you.


5. Don't buy/trade with people who you know to be thieves, even if it means a ridiculously good deal for you. After awhile, I stopped trading with the aforementioned thief, because even though he would offer me ridiculously good deals, I realized a lot of the cards I had been picking up were stolen goods. It's hard to pass up deals like this, and it's easy to justify doing so morally; after all, you didn't steal the cards and therefore committed no crime. But the fact that it's so easy to get rid of high end cards quickly by giving good deals makes thieving all the easier.

Good Call. I havn't got my cards stolen, yeah, someone did steal my playset of Monsterous Growth, believing them to be woth a lot. The same person also stole foil Raging Goblin and Krona, the False God from my friend, and offered $50 for all those cards to someone...lol

But I faced more than my fair share of card destruction by parents, for sure.:rolleyes:
Theft sucks, but watching them getting utterly destroyed before your eyes suck even more.

[Bane of the Living]

I lost a deck at GP Philly too. The only thing with me, right in front of my face. People are treacherous and cunning. I always feel Im securing my cards and did then but still people find a way when they want a way. The only thing that could make a huge difference is Cameras. I think all large scale events and serious gaming stores need to protect their custies with major camera action.

[sammiel]

As some people have already said, welcome to Earth, population: assholes.

The only recourse you have when someone steals your stuff is to pray that you get lucky enough to find them. I've had my share of stuff stolen, but the only time I lost a binder, I caught the kid with it. When he refused to give it back, I caught him afterwards out behind the store and broke his nose with a 2x4. Got my binder out of his backpack and let him keep his own shit.

Of course, I got the cops called on me, but seeing as how I was practically family with the store owner, he gave me an alibi and they never found the 2x4. I bet its still in the cellar of that store.

I've gonna gone off track, my point is that the only justice you have is what you can provide, just don't get carried away unless you have backup.

[Cait_Sith]

The funny counter part to this is I got my cards and someone elses mixed up at the PC PreRelease. My cards were mostly crap and utter garbage, but the ones I found were pretty nice (Aeon Chronicler, a few Calciderm, etc). So if you ever lose your cards, hope I find them.

(I try to burn up all my kindness before a match.)

[Finn]

Tell you what...I had an Alpha Mox Sapphire stolen from me by a "friend" in 1995. For the past 12 years or so, I have brought only the deck, pen, and paper pad in a deckpack which straps on my person and locks. As you might imagine, I have not had any recent problems. I recommend this strategy to everyone. Of course, I am not the guy who scopes the scene b4 choosing my deck either.

[TheAardvark]

I had my entire collection stolen twice by the same "friend", both times from the trunk of my car. Apparently, at some point he had taken my keys and copied every single one of them. So, while we were at a local convention, I had my box in my trunk; I'd brought it just in case someone offered me a really good deal on something I was hesitant to trade. Apparently he and another friend left, and he drove back up alone and took the stuff. He then drove to Gathering Ground in St. Louis the next day to sell everything. I'd say the overall was pretty solid; this was 2000, so a lot of stuff wasn't insane yet, but I had playsets of everything worthwhile in Beta sans power in addition to my Drains, AN Cities, Bazaars, etc.

The second time was a few months later. I still had no clue HOW it had happened, and I was at another friend's house one evening, hanging out. Again, everything was stolen from the trunk, and again everything was sold the next day to Gathering Ground.

I finally was told by 2 of my friends that the guy had told them months before that he had done it. I'd tried to get the cops involved originally and after that, but they were less than helpful, as expected.

As far as "marking" cards or having distinct cards, it doesn't matter if whoever has the cards or ends up with them is greedy or dishonest. When I called Gathering Ground a few days later if a big collection of Betas and other hard to find stuff had come in, they told me no. I took a trip up there to see myself, asked to look at their Betas, and what did I see before me? Signed Beta Birds, Wraths, etc. The Beta duals even had the bend that all of my lands get after heavy usage. When I asked them who'd had all of this stuff, they got dodgy and evasive. I explained what had happened, telling them marks on specific cards that only *I* would know about, and they said what I would expect: "I don't care".

I wasn't expecting them to magically return my cards to me, but I certainly thought that they could help me in identifying the person who sold them, or something. I dunno about now, but back then if you brought in large collections, they would request your name just for instances like this. When I asked them that, they said he "gave a fake name". That was the end.

I was pretty sickened by that point. I KNOW who it was, but he was underage at the time, and I certainly wasn't going to go to jail for him. Knowing who is responsible and not being able to really do anything is really frustrating.

Ah well.

[Cait_Sith]

If you really don't want a card to be taken, and you have no intention of ever selling/trading it, sign it. In big letters. This may sound dumb, but it makes the people who bought the cards in a much tougher place.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Carry all your shit in a backpack that's always in direct physical contact with you. Always. If possible, get a small lock for the zipper. Don't let your guard down no matter what other measures you take.

And seriously, some support from tournament organizers would go a long way; if major organizers would actually take such basic steps as using cameras, it'd help.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Do what I do; only own one deck at a time, make sure all the cards are as white-bordered and shitty as possible, and trade that deck in for the next. Fuck owning a Magic collection. The entire community is going to go out of their way to screw you in every way possible, why in Hell would you want to be a collector? Dealers are dicks, players are dicks, buyers are dicks, traders are dicks. Just cut your losses and put that money you were going to waste into a bank account.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Some cards are a good investment. But you don't really want to trade those anyway.

[noobslayer]

What was the final outcome of the Roland Chang incident?

[Pinder]

What was the final outcome of the Roland Chang incident?

Better yet, what was the Roland Chang incident?

[noobslayer]

I guess he had his and Jacob Orlove's stuff, and someone snatched it when he left the table for a moment. It had a ton of power and unique cards, and would've been very hard to move, if even possible.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

At Neutral Ground, yeah, 15,000+ dollars worth of cards. I think I'm most pissed off at the stores where these things happen. The Lucky Frog is about the only store I've ever been to that seemed to give a shit when someone got their cards stolen there. It would be ridiculously easy to just block the front door and demand a bag check of everyone. While this is a hassle for everyone who didn't steal the cards, it's better than some guy losing a thousand plus dollars worth of stuff.

[bigbear102]

Seeing as blocking the door and demanding a bag check is blatantly illegal, I'm not sure I would blame the store for not asking for lawsuits of their own.

Cameras would be nice at stores though, as it would also help their situation.

I know when I got my shit stolen I just reported it under my parent's homeowners insurance and they paid for it. There was essentially no downside, aside from the fact I had to write down every card I lost with prices, and my parents got cancelled later that year because there were 3 claims over 1000 dollars.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Seeing as blocking the door and demanding a bag check is blatantly illegal, I'm not sure I would blame the store for not asking for lawsuits of their own.

I suspect it would only be illegal if you actually grabbed their bag and checked it.

[sammiel]

Seeing as blocking the door and demanding a bag check is blatantly illegal, I'm not sure I would blame the store for not asking for lawsuits of their own.

Cameras would be nice at stores though, as it would also help their situation.

I know when I got my shit stolen I just reported it under my parent's homeowners insurance and they paid for it. There was essentially no downside, aside from the fact I had to write down every card I lost with prices, and my parents got cancelled later that year because there were 3 claims over 1000 dollars.

Maybe you should do some research on the rights that shopkeepers have, there is absolutely nothing illegal about them detaining anyone on suspicion of theft.

[barron]

I think the key point is that they don't suspect one person (in the example I guess), but they suspect *everyone*/no one. I think that makes it illegal for the search and/or blocking. I have seen this happen once before and everyone was ok with them looking through their bags.

[sammiel]

I think the key point is that they don't suspect one person (in the example I guess), but they suspect *everyone*/no one. I think that makes it illegal for the search and/or blocking. I have seen this happen once before and everyone was ok with them looking through their bags.


Still completely legal. You have the right to refuse to be searched, and they have the right to detain you until Police arrive. The shopkeeper calling the police constitutes reasonable suspicion, and you can't refuse to be searched by them.

[scrumdogg]

Even if that is the case in every state (and different states have different laws...) there are still the issues of disrupting your business (how many gamestores have the staff to adequately deal with a situation like this? plus the image difficulties) and proof of ownership. Magic cards tend to be difficult to prove ownership on to competent but uninitiated authorities.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

a) I would actually think not giving a toss when a customer gets a thousand plus dollars stolen from them would be far worse for your image. Regardless of image, however, it's still clearly the morally corret thing to do.

b) It's actually fairly easy to prove a deck or box or binder is yours. Have a third party verify you both listing what cards are in it. The person that just stole it isn't going to know what's in there.

[noobslayer]

That may not be true. In the case of a binder, he may have viewed what you had at some earlier point which is what perpetuated his desire to acquire your possessions. Or in the case of a deck, he may have been your opponent, or simply watched a match you were engaged in.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

It's possible, but the cases in which the thief will know the contents of their stolen item as well as you are very rare. In addition, you can call other friends as witnesses to your ownership of the item.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

I have to side with Jack on this one.

If and when theft starts hurting the secondary market(and that's who it will hurt, eventually), the dealers will have only their own apathy to blame.

[scrumdogg]

I agree with him in the abstract, but let's journey back to reality, shall we? How many of you have actually worked in a game store? The scenarios are much more difficult than they sound to enact properly (and agreed, cameras - GOOD cameras - would help immensely). That said, good camera systems are an expense many smaller shops (and larger cheaper shops...) don't want/can't afford. Now move to the 'binder stolen (sans camera)' scenario - mobilize all the employees...except the ones running registers, & servicing customers, and running tournaments (which can be up to 4-5 different systems/games/ tournaments in a busy location). Oh wait...nobody left. But we adjust coverage & station somebody at the door, somehow, along with outraged gamer and pester the shit out of anybody leaving the store...including little Johnny the Pokemon player & his mom, some guy who came in to buy comics, etc etc - not only aggravating your customer base but advertising that apparently you have a theft problem in this store. Outstanding. And quite frankly, all this effort is for some kid who leaves wrappers on the floor, is loud & obnoxious, and buys his cards on Ebay. From a coldly practical retail perspective - why bother? But let's say we find the mystical binder/backpack/deckbox (probably on some Yu-Gi-Oh kid...) & we call the police. Three people swear those cards belong to poor little Timmy-who-can't-be-bothered-to-watch-his-stuff-properly. 99% of the cops I have encountered, including those I work with & those I dealt with as an Event Coordinator at a large gamestore, either won't/can't do a damn thing because it is all hearsay. You get 3 Magic players to affirm these are his cards & Rolando the Yu-Gi-Oh Pimp gets his friends Shanequa & Jomama to say he has owned the cards for some time...but they are for sale as he doesn't play anymore.... And nothing happens & the store gets to ban a Yu-Gi-Oh thief (one of many...) and justice is not served.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

You know, you can just admit you were wrong. You don't have to try and go to any lengths to salvage a bad point.

1) You pause whatever tournaments are going on. A serious crime has just taken place. This is perfectly reasonable. No one on Earth would challenge you for this.

2) No parent is going to get pissed off because they actually know the value of a dollar and they would want the same effort of their kid had all of his shit stolen.

3) It would be ludicrously easy to verify that the contents are yours to any cop simply by confirming the items.

4) "Mystical binder"? Seriously now.

[Bane of the Living]

I caught the kid with it. When he refused to give it back, I caught him afterwards out behind the store and broke his nose with a 2x4. Got my binder out of his backpack and let him keep his own shit.


Now thats justice!! I suggest we impliment the 2x4 justice system in each gaming store. We can hang it behind the store's register and tear it out before each large event. Swing it around a few times and threaten the ever loving shit from would be thieves.

[Atwa]

Now thats justice!! I suggest we impliment the 2x4 justice system in each gaming store. We can hang it behind the store's register and tear it out before each large event. Swing it around a few times and threaten the ever loving shit from would be theives.

Hey, whatever works :)

[Epheniculles]

Let me explain to you how to steal a card(s) or protect yourself from being stolen from. Hopefully this will help everyone from being stolen from.

If you are stealing a card(s)
1. Make sure your actions are not able to be seen by others..

2. If the card(s) or container the card(s) are in is identifiable get rid of the sleeve, top loader, binder, or bag. If unable to, leave the scene or store immediately.

3. If you are confronted use the excuse that either it is yours or someone just gave you a great deal on it, and the guy seemed to be in a hurry to leave so you jumped on it. If you start giving facts that aren't true that are easily checked, you'll get caught.

Now, That is how a common thief is going to steal from you, so study it. If you don't allow action number 1 to happen, you cut the chances of being stolen from by about 90%. There are other ways a more advanced thief will attempt to steal your cards, one common way is to act like they accidentally grabbed your stuff when they are packing up their stuff.


If your are stolen from here is what you need to do.
1. Immediately survey the area and the exits of where ever you are at. A thief has three options, hide the items on his person, leave the area, or hide the items with a friends stuff. Look for people departing the area.

2. If you have friends use them. Have them notify the store, or if at an event, notify each vendor to look for particular cards, so that you will be able to find the thief. The smaller the event the better chance you have.

3. Check the outside of the store if it is a small event for someone who may be putting things in their car. Then check back with the store or vendors.

Funny that I write this while I am watching "It takes a thief"


Now, something that I mentioned before that the cops couldn't really care less, is true for the most part. However, you can always file a police report, and that forces them to take action.

Filing a Police report does the following:
1. Establishes that a crime has been committed.

2. If there is property that is in question, it is taken as evidence.

3. Evidence that is taken, is only returned to a person if they can provide proof that the card is theirs.

This has been done before when a card box of a friend was stolen, and some of my cards were in the box. I had no wish to lose a piece of power 9. All vendors at the event were notified after the cards were taken, and which cards to look for. We returned about two hours later to one of the vendors, who happened to have practically every one of the cards that was stolen.

We mentioned how they had the cards that were stolen. They said they had purchased them from someone, but couldn't identify who. They wouldn't help at all by returning any of the pieces, specifically mine, and told us there wasn't anything that could be done. We proved them wrong, and had all the cards seized by the police as evidence. I have scans of all my valuable cards with identifying marks, and many of my friend's cards were customized, and could be described by only him or one of us that played against the cards.

It took about 6 months but the cards were eventually obtained by their rightful owners, with the loss of only a few less expensive cards. The vendor who purchased them and knew he was purchasing stolen cards lost all the cash he paid.