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Peter_Rotten
03-08-2007, 01:36 PM
With the recent refreshing top eights from GAGG, TMLO Day 1, and TMLO Day 2, I'd like to toss a question out to the masses. In your opinion, which of the following under-played decks is the "best?" Ultimately, base your opinion on which is the most interesting and powerful. Which one should be seeing more play? Which one do you think is the best against the already crumbling unholy trinity of Solo-Gob-Thresh? Flat out - which tournament success are you the most excited about?

The Enchantress Rebirth (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2601) - brought to you by lonelybaritone's back to back to back top 8s.

The Epic Storm's (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4612) major top eight debut thanks to Bryant.

Red Death (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3795) played by Prince Prospero - um - Anwar for two top 8 finishes.

Rotten Aluren (http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=26139.0) played by ObFreely to two top 8 finishes. And BTW, thanks for allowing the French to be right about something :frown:

The BHWC Landstill (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4930) revision with the important addition of Deed. It crushed 3 TES decks in one day but IDed with Bryant which allowed him to tear apart the TMLO Day 1 top 8.

Dr. Teeth's Hulk Smash (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5249) revision that made 2nd place at TMLO 1

Cait_Sith
03-08-2007, 01:40 PM
I voted Enchantress here, but I think that Truffle Shuffle should be on the list.

troopatroop
03-08-2007, 01:43 PM
It's been said so many times, that when Storm combo evolves into a resilient turn 3 combo, heads will roll.

The prophecy has come true.

Eldariel
03-08-2007, 01:47 PM
I voted for TES out of that group even though it's obviously getting played seeing that this was the first big event since the deck actually became existent. Out of that group, Aluren and Enchantress are also very good on the back of their rather strong aggro-match ups, and BHWC Landstill is rather strong too (especially with the downfall of Solidarity; it hasn't been placing much in any tournaments recently).

Pinder
03-08-2007, 02:12 PM
I vote TES. Despite a mutual dislike between me and most of EPIC, I must say that this deck is solid. I goldfished it a few times in MWS, and even with my inexperienced play mistakes I was still winning turns 3-4 consistently. Nice work, guys.

Watcher487
03-08-2007, 02:15 PM
With the recent refreshing top eights from GAGG, TMLO Day 1, and TMLO Day 2, I'd like to toss a question out to the masses. In your opinion, which of the following under-played decks is the "best?" Ultimately, base your opinion on which is the most interesting and powerful. Which one should be seeing more play? Which one do you think is the best against the already crumbling unholy trinity of Solo-Gob-Thresh? Flat out - which tournament success are you the most excited about?

I'm presonally more bias but, I think Three-Deuce aggro control is more 'powerful' than most of the decks you listed. Especially since some testing (outside from TMLO2) has shown that your more than positive in both Thresh and Gobbos and post-board can be modded to take care of the combo match.

Nightmare
03-08-2007, 02:25 PM
Duh.

Taurelin
03-08-2007, 02:36 PM
TES. I had the honour to lose against it once (best regards to FlodO) and managed one draw (with Rift!) against it. I liked what I saw.

Ewokslayer
03-08-2007, 02:37 PM
It is hard to say which decks people aren't playing since we don't have a break out of the GAGG or TML2 Day 1 & TML2 Day 2. I don't think you can really put TES in that category considering it is a brand new deck and was looked to be well represented at all three tournaments. Landstill was another deck that seemed to have a fair bit of representation (as with just about all Legacy tournaments that generally means more that one player playing it). The same can be said about Tog as there was 2-3 players at TML2 piloting the deck.
So in my mind that leaves Aluren, Red Death, and Enchantress. Of those I feel that only Red Death can really support that many more players before becoming a "threat" to the metagame and being hated out, similar to the random hate that Enchantress has experienced in Legacy's past. Red Death should be able to easily support the same player base that Deadguy has supported. Additionally, as combo decks (in some fashion) Aluren, Enchantress, and TES should experience some problems with the current up swing in aggro-control (Gro, Fish, Madness, Deadguy) which makes up about 25% of the meta since the TML1 (obviously without the breakouts from the last 3 tournaments any analysis is incomplete); however Deadguy doesn't really suffer from this trend as it has an even or better matchup against that sort of field.

Peter_Rotten
03-08-2007, 02:37 PM
I'm presonally more bias but, I think Three-Deuce aggro control is more 'powerful' than most of the decks you listed. Especially since some testing (outside from TMLO2) has shown that your more than positive in both Thresh and Gobbos and post-board can be modded to take care of the combo match.

I wasn't sure if I shoulud include this deck or not. I even didn't include the Hulk Smash in the original post but hasilty added it. Once again, I wasn't positive where to draw the line. Enchantress, Aluren, and Red Death were obvious inclusions while TES and BHWC Landstill were close to obvious in my opinion. That Hulk list is debatable but I know the masses have been clamoring for a successful and serious Tog list. The B3Deuce list is refreshing but I'm slightly worried that it will turn out to be like the SurVial deck that you played to a respectable finish at BA2 - a one hit wonder.

On a side note, I have a personal loathing for Chrome Mox openings in aggro decks. Don't make me waste my cards :frown:

Bryant Cook
03-08-2007, 02:37 PM
I am teh winnest. I vote TES. Al la derf.

Atwa
03-08-2007, 02:52 PM
TES 11 44.00%

Wow, is this tread sponsored by the Epic Syndicate or something?

Ewokslayer
03-08-2007, 03:07 PM
TES 11 44.00%

Wow, is this tread sponsored by the Epic Syndicate or something?

I think it just means that Legacy players have hard-ons for Goblins; even their combo decks have to play a horde of them.

Xero
03-08-2007, 03:12 PM
I voted Red Death. Its got game against nearly everything, and is at the worst an okay choice in every (realistic) field. Maybe Boros w/ w/o b should be here, considering it Split at The Mana Leak, got 2nd (?) at the last Meandeck Open, and has had sporadic placements elsewhere...

Tacosnape
03-08-2007, 03:16 PM
I had to sadly vote for TES, although Red Death and BHWC Landstill are two of the six decks in my real-life repertoire.

...What exactly does BHWC stand for, anyway? I keep wanting to make it stand for "Big Hamburger With Cheese."

Xero
03-08-2007, 03:18 PM
Bitches and Hoes West Coast.

Eldariel
03-08-2007, 03:26 PM
I think Enchantress is actually quite good against control due to the engine redundancy, and the ability to win without ever actually getting any engine online. Presence, Argothian or Sylvan are all essentially must-counters and there're Sterling Groves to fetch them. Then there's the whole 'double Grove+Confinement=GG' regardless of which game you're in.

Di
03-08-2007, 03:30 PM
I just added Survival to that poll, because it wasn't mentioned despite having top8 slots at every one of those events. Despite all of them being a bit different, they all play the exact same way and have minimal changes between decklists (For the most part, all of them are RGSA with either a color splash or 2-3 card changes). Plus the deck really doesn't take up much of the field, with generally 3-5 players max at any given large tournament.

noobslayer
03-08-2007, 03:32 PM
I voted Aluren, because I think it's results are directly based on play skill more so than any deck ever played in this format. You can't learn the deck in a week.

Parcher
03-08-2007, 03:53 PM
I vote Red Death narrowly over Landstill just because I agree with Ewokslayer. Aluren, Enchantress, and TES are all more powerful objectively. But if as Rotten says, they become "the best" and are highly played, they are much easier to hate out than the former two.

Happy Gilmore
03-08-2007, 03:54 PM
It is hard to say which decks people aren't playing since we don't have a break out of the GAGG or TML2 Day 1 & TML2 Day 2. I don't think you can really put TES in that category considering it is a brand new deck and was looked to be well represented at all three tournaments.

QFT. Can TES be on the list considering that it was represented very well in the Mana Leak tournaments at the very least? I thought this thread was about decks people were not playing?

Ewokslayer
03-08-2007, 03:58 PM
Aluren, Enchantress, and TES are all more powerful objectively.
Well something like Red Death will never be objectively powerfully as its power revolves around what the opponent is playing.
You can't really goldfish Red Death and be like: "Wow I just got the first turn Hymn, Broken!" It ir really only when that hymn kicks a combo deck in the junk that Red Death seems powerful.

Phantom
03-08-2007, 04:04 PM
Yeah, everyone is breaking themselves over TES, but Red Death has always been a solid, possibly even tier 1 deck, and will ironically only get better if another major combo deck comes on the scene.

Atwa
03-08-2007, 04:05 PM
I just added Survival to that poll, because it wasn't mentioned despite having top8 slots at every one of those events. Despite all of them being a bit different, they all play the exact same way and have minimal changes between decklists (For the most part, all of them are RGSA with either a color splash or 2-3 card changes). Plus the deck really doesn't take up much of the field, with generally 3-5 players max at any given large tournament.

Damn you Di!

Now I've voted for the wrong deck.

Anusien
03-08-2007, 04:35 PM
Aluren. It seems to only have the one serious player. TES put itself on the map, but considering its high representation and how new it is, it's hard to say that it's "The Best Deck We're Not Playing"

Although obviously Confinement Slide or UWR or something deserves to be on there. I guess I need to form a team to barn all my random decks the way The Epic Syndicate pushes TES down everyone's throat.

Bryant Cook
03-08-2007, 04:53 PM
I disagree, you don't need a team to promote a deck. First off, create a good deck then promote it; after that other people will pick up the deck and the snowball will roll.

Confiment Slide was never and will never a good deck.

Peter_Rotten
03-08-2007, 05:23 PM
I just added Survival to that poll...

I wish you hadn't since the Survival lists are not quite the same. If we could somehow find the best Survival list and that list placed at important events then I'd agree with adding that particular list to the poll.

Yes, they play a similar strategy and have a similar base of cards, I still think they differ enough to prevent Survival's inclusion in the poll. It would be like including White and Red Thresh as the same entry.

Oh well, no biggy. Vote for Survival if you think it's the Best Deck We're Not Playing.

Aggro_zombies
03-08-2007, 05:25 PM
Confiment Slide was never and will never a good deck.

:mad:

To be on-topic, I voted for Landstill. With the proper modifications, it can be a house in this format. I might have voted for TES, but...having seen the deck in action, it seems to be rather luck-based, more so than a deck like IGGY or Solidarity. There is definitely a playskill element there, but the deck just seems to be really inconsistent on the face of it...in other words, it's a resilient, fast storm combo deck that just happens to be popular now.

Also, I like Landstill.

Bryant Cook
03-08-2007, 05:35 PM
Luck doesn't happen for 9 rounds.

Zach Tartell
03-08-2007, 05:40 PM
I voted enchantress. Because "Back to back to back" Previously could only address the awesomeness of the first three Rocky movies.



Aluren. It seems to only have the one serious player. TES put itself on the map, but considering its high representation and how new it is, it's hard to say that it's "The Best Deck We're Not Playing"

Although obviously Confinement Slide or UWR or something deserves to be on there. I guess I need to form a team to barn all my random decks the way The Epic Syndicate pushes TES down everyone's throat.

You think you had it hard with TES? Dude, wait until you hear about the EPIC enchantress. Shit's gonna be nuts.

Watcher487
03-08-2007, 05:53 PM
I wasn't sure if I shoulud include this deck or not. I even didn't include the Hulk Smash in the original post but hasilty added it. Once again, I wasn't positive where to draw the line. Enchantress, Aluren, and Red Death were obvious inclusions while TES and BHWC Landstill were close to obvious in my opinion. That Hulk list is debatable but I know the masses have been clamoring for a successful and serious Tog list. The B3Deuce list is refreshing but I'm slightly worried that it will turn out to be like the SurVial deck that you played to a respectable finish at BA2 - a one hit wonder.

On a side note, I have a personal loathing for Chrome Mox openings in aggro decks. Don't make me waste my cards :frown:

Well, I hate to say this but some people have finally gotten around to adding Aether Vial to Survival decks, so don't count that archtype out yet :-P .

3Deuce has had a strong history not only in this format but also back in 2000-1 Extended. The deck is built to clear though randomness which is a very big key to winning at bigger events, while it does have positive match-ups vs Gobbos and Thresh (2 of the more played decks in the format). Personally I think it's unfair to just not consider any other Aggro deck as being decent when it's more than possible to TROUNCE Goblins with a faster deck. The format is slowly getting faster, which means Wasteland will not matter in certain match-ups.

On the side note, as stated on the report, I went 10-0 match-wise when going 2nd. This might be something to consider when you reevaluate what I'm talking about when I say speed.

Peter_Rotten
03-08-2007, 06:01 PM
On the side note, as stated on the report, I went 10-0 match-wise when going 2nd. This might be something to consider when you reevaluate what I'm talking about when I say speed.

Of course, and there were many matches where you opened with Turn One Silver Knight, Turn Two BTS. That's just stupid unfair, yet how often can that realistically happen? But also, is that deck really "explosive" without that - or a chrome mox - opening?

Anarky87
03-08-2007, 06:18 PM
I would probably vote for either Landstill or perhaps TES as good decks we aren't playing.

While I'm a huge advocate of Red Death and I play it prolifically and it is most certainly capable of tearing through the field, it also can just completely pack it up to certain cards. There have been games where I've hit them with discard and LD and got down some creatures...And then they were able to draw a Jitte while my creatures were tapped and swing through and turn the game around. I recently played against a Survival deck, won game 1 pretty handily through Discard, LD and fast beats, then went on to lose games 2 and 3 by him just stalling me out and getting better beats. Game 3 I even opened with turn 1 Negator, which was stopped turn 3 by a powered out Genesis after I nabbed his SotF with Duress. I went on to lose that game.

I also think Watcher's deck can be pretty capable of pushing through the field. It sports some good beats, burn to clear the way, as well as some good anti combo cards. With the format being so wide and diverse, it's really hard for me to pin what deck we should all be playing. To each his own I suppose.

Watcher487
03-08-2007, 06:18 PM
Of course, and there were many matches where you opened with Turn One Silver Knight, Turn Two BTS. That's just stupid unfair, yet how often can that realistically happen? But also, is that deck really "explosive" without that - or a chrome mox - opening?

Well yeah, duh! Even opening Kird Ape off Taiga then going Rancor or bunches of removal is unfair sometimes. The deck is built to force your opponent into the unfair role early like how goblins can sometimes do.

Bryant Cook
03-08-2007, 06:48 PM
Is there anyway I can change my vote to ProsBloom?

Phantom
03-08-2007, 08:10 PM
Luck doesn't happen for 9 rounds.

I think you can certainly get lucky with matchups. I don't think there's any question that luck was a factor in Madness winning one of the biggest Legacy tourneys ever.

Di
03-08-2007, 08:11 PM
Well, I hate to say this but some people have finally gotten around to adding Aether Vial to Survival decks, so don't count that archtype out yet :-P .


And those people who added Aether Vial to Survival decks were complaining about it the entire day 1, from what I hear. The card sucks in the deck because it isn't a creature and is trash against Goblins, but this isn't the thread to debate that in.


Yes, they play a similar strategy and have a similar base of cards, I still think they differ enough to prevent Survival's inclusion in the poll. It would be like including White and Red Thresh as the same entry.

I see your point, but it felt wrong to leave it out of the poll considering it is performing well yet is such a small portion of the field. I don't see combining them together as one entry as a problem because realistically no Survival deck is really the same, so categorizing them individually would be nearly impossible. That's basically like adding 5 more options to the poll, each representing a good Survival build. The archtype has more variety between lists than any other in the format, and considering they are all similiar, it just makes it easier to group them together.

dahcmai
03-08-2007, 08:15 PM
I had to go with Survival , but it's hard to call that one as it is, I just think there's something out there that can break out if tuned up enough.

TES is damned good though. I personally think it'll hit Iggy pops status soon. I've been trying it out and I'm impressed.

Getsickanddie
03-08-2007, 08:20 PM
I guess I need to form a team to barn all my random decks the way The Epic Syndicate pushes TES down everyone's throat.

Putting up a notable performance at a large event would do the trick.

Tacosnape
03-08-2007, 08:23 PM
Putting up a notable performance at a large event would do the trick.

That or just building decks that are like, good. You know, like TES.

xsockmonkeyx
03-08-2007, 09:07 PM
Right now I vote Red Death because TES is still relatively new. It it were like a month later I might change my vote.

troopatroop
03-08-2007, 09:10 PM
Right now I vote Red Death because TES is still relatively new. It it were like a month later I might change my vote.

How does time have ANYTHING to do with the poll.

kirdape3
03-08-2007, 09:34 PM
Affinity.

Machinus
03-08-2007, 09:35 PM
I noticed there weren't any smokestacks in the poll, so I may just end up voting for the deck with the most basic mountains in it. At this point they all have zero : (

xsockmonkeyx
03-08-2007, 09:35 PM
Over time information tends to spread. TES is new so word hasnt completely gotten out. Red Death is older so people know about it but just arent playing it.

gustoh
03-08-2007, 09:42 PM
I believe it's about time Survival Decks start to reappear in the meta game.

Enchantress is also a very under played deck.

LT...

Ta Jugs
03-08-2007, 09:43 PM
Affinity.

I agree.

JACO
03-08-2007, 10:10 PM
Affinity.
If Affinity was an option, that's what I would vote for too. The sideboard is so customizable, and the whole AEther Vial/Disciple of the Vault/Arcbound Ravager being legal thing is broken. In areas where Pernicious Deed isn't played this should compromise like 20% of the field.

TheRock
03-08-2007, 10:22 PM
Aluren. While TES is a fantastic deck and I would gladly call it one of the best decks in this format, I think Aluren is better yet. It's just that Aluren is the "Eye of the Beholder 2: Legend of Darkmoon" deck of Legacy. (that game probably gave me gray hair; it was notorious for very hard fights and very hard puzzles)

The other decks aren't bad by any means, and I hope that they keep getting better and keep placing so this "not Tier 1" and "not Big 3" crap can die once and for all.

Jak
03-08-2007, 11:07 PM
Enchantress has to be it. Someone plays the deck to 3 straight top 8s in big tournies. TES would probably be second, but three straight is to good to pass up.

Zach Tartell
03-08-2007, 11:10 PM
... I hope that they keep getting better and keep placing so this "not Tier 1" and "not Big 3" crap can die once and for all.

What? "Back to back to back!" Is everyone else taking crazy pills?

AnwarA101
03-09-2007, 08:13 PM
Red Death (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3795) played by Prince Prospero - um - Anwar for two top 8 finishes.



Prince Prospero, hmm that sounds like a cool screen name. I think its awesome that I might be doing more for Edgar Allen Poe than PR himself given that he's an English teacher.

I voted for Red Death because I really think its had quite a good track record despite very limited play, but I doubt it will catch on. You have to get over the fact that Negator has a drawback.

Machinus
03-09-2007, 08:17 PM
I voted for Red Death because I really think its had quite a good track record despite very limited play, but I doubt it will catch on. You have to get over the fact that Negator has a drawback.

Isn't affinity just better though? I mean, they can Shrapnel Blast your Negator...I think you just lose that matchup.

Anarky87
03-10-2007, 12:10 AM
Isn't affinity just better though? I mean, they can Shrapnel Blast your Negator...I think you just lose that matchup.

Except Red Death has no cards that when maindecked or sideboarded against you make your entire board go 'boom'.

Anusien
03-10-2007, 02:06 PM
Luck doesn't happen for 9 rounds.
I guess you've never met Calosso.

MattH
03-10-2007, 06:27 PM
Luck doesn't happen for 9 rounds.
Actually I think that's rather the definition of luck (or at least evidence for it). If you only win 2 or 3 rounds, that is definitively NOT luck. 'Lucky' kind of implies winning many rounds.

troopatroop
03-10-2007, 06:31 PM
Actually I think that's rather the definition of luck (or at least evidence for it). If you only win 2 or 3 rounds, that is definitively NOT luck. 'Lucky' kind of implies winning many rounds.

You are completely, totally, and most definitely wrong on all accounts.

Kenderleech
03-10-2007, 06:44 PM
Luck doesn't happen for 9 rounds.



Bad luck is still luck... It does happen for 8 rounds, at least...

So sayeth GP philly 2nd to last, 2006 legacy worlds 3rd to last.

Di
03-10-2007, 07:50 PM
So sayeth GP philly 2nd to last, 2006 legacy worlds 3rd to last.

I'd place that sort of blame rather on the deck or said deck's pilot. "Luck" won't scrub out like that in such high-level events twice in a row.

Three Deuce FTL

Zach Tartell
03-11-2007, 03:24 AM
I'd place that sort of blame rather on the deck or said deck's pilot. "Luck" won't scrub out like that in such high-level events twice in a row.

Three Deuce FTL

enchantress FTW

61 permantans = auto win against angel stomp y,
I'm so rdunk that id tdoens't matter. nightmar will maske me alright


deleting posts ftw

Joe_C
03-11-2007, 07:21 AM
confinement. I think a strong confinement build can wreck some shit. I plan on playing it next time I get to a tournament.

Bongo
03-11-2007, 12:19 PM
If Affinity was an option, that's what I would vote for too. The sideboard is so customizable, and the whole AEther Vial/Disciple of the Vault/Arcbound Ravager being legal thing is broken.

Seconded.

Right now, people aren't packing dedicated hate, which leads to some rather easy games.

Since Affinity isn't on the list, I voted for Aluren. It has strategic superiority against many decks and is very dangerous in the hands of a good player.

Survival would be my second choice, although it may move up on my preference list once I get all the testing done.

clavio
03-11-2007, 01:44 PM
I picked the many colored landstill. It beats tier one and fears very few decks.

CleverPetriDish
03-12-2007, 09:42 AM
About Aluren, does it play beatdown often? I ask because most of us can agree that Survival decks need to be able to do so in the absnece of its namesake. I am wondering if Aluren is in the same boat. Until I know, I am witholding judgement on this issue.

Amon Amarth
03-12-2007, 04:47 PM
I wanted to vote for Faerie Stompy but apparently that deck is to good to be an option ;)

Seriously, though, Aluren. That deck is so damn good, even if it is just a tad hard to play.

noobslayer
03-12-2007, 05:00 PM
What are you going to beat down with? Cavern Harpy? Man-o-War? It's pretty consistent at finding the Aluren, I think it's more or less finding one of the other pieces that's the issue.

Anusien
03-12-2007, 05:27 PM
What are you going to beat down with? Cavern Harpy? Man-o-War? It's pretty consistent at finding the Aluren, I think it's more or less finding one of the other pieces that's the issue.
Actually, I'm rather happy beatin down with Harpy or Man-o-War when it comes down to it. Beating down with Bears and Grey Ogres with control backup is a fine plan.

Epheniculles
03-12-2007, 06:56 PM
I picked the many colored landstill. It beats tier one and fears very few decks.

What he said.

Bryant Cook
03-12-2007, 07:22 PM
A vote for Landstill is like a vote for Ralph Nader, useless.

MattH
03-12-2007, 08:11 PM
A vote for Landstill is like a vote for Ralph Nader, useless.

That is the best thing you've ever said.

Zilla
03-12-2007, 08:21 PM
I'm going to have to agree. BHWC Landstill's manabase is so fucking shaky it loses to itself. In a long tournament like Columbus, I'd never subject myself to the potential streaks of bad luck that deck can have because of its own inconsistent manabase.

Shriekmaw
03-12-2007, 10:25 PM
Affinity.


Thank You.


I've been telling people how good affinity is in Legacy b/c no one runs hate for it. Thats why its a great pick for a deck to play in a major Legacy tournament.


I would love to see Affinity on this list.

Cait_Sith
03-13-2007, 05:35 PM
I've been telling people how good affinity is in Legacy b/c no one runs hate for it.

Why? Half the deck time the deck can hate on itself just fine. It has no late game at all and dies to any sort of global removal someone whips out. I have won on the back of an Elephant Grass. And that's just terrible.

Zach Tartell
03-13-2007, 06:14 PM
Why? Half the deck time the deck can hate on itself just fine. It has no late game at all and dies to any sort of global removal someone whips out. I have won on the back of an Elephant Grass. And that's just terrible.

For real, dude. Enchantress is the bomb. You should all go read this (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5302), then change your votes once you see how wrong you've been.

torgar
03-13-2007, 06:54 PM
Rabid muthafuckin' Wombat. It's soooo good.

MattH
03-13-2007, 06:55 PM
Legacy decks are, as a rule, expensive. Every single deck either runs duals and fetches, is Tide (fetches and Wishes and Resets and Forces), is Goblins (Piledriver, fetches, Lackey, Ports, Wastes are all $ cards), or runs, uh, Sea Drake.

Affinity is by far the cheapest (worthwhile**) deck in the format, best bang for your buck. I could probably build the entire maindeck* for $50, and besides Pithing Needles the entire deck PERIOD for $60.

*Assuming Needles aren't maindeck.

**Nine-land Stompy is not worthwhile.

Bryant Cook
03-13-2007, 09:26 PM
I don't know... TES is very cheap to build.

Cait_Sith
03-13-2007, 09:30 PM
For real, dude. Enchantress is the bomb. You should all go read this (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5302), then change your votes once you see how wrong you've been.

I voted Enchantress. I have been working to make my list work. Although I am angry you beat me to it, you did a good deed.

Di
03-13-2007, 10:01 PM
Rabid muthafuckin' Wombat. It's soooo good.

No.

Soto
03-13-2007, 10:35 PM
I don't know... TES is very cheap to build.

Leds are like 9 a piece, mox at 15, wish at 15, cities are somewhat expensive. I think affinity is cheaper. Blinkmoth and ravager are the only cards that are "expensive".

Volt
03-13-2007, 11:13 PM
Hmmm... Weird. "The Best Deck We're Not Playing" wasn't even included in that poll.

Di
03-13-2007, 11:18 PM
Hmmm... Weird. "The Best Deck We're Not Playing" wasn't even included in that poll.

I believe some of the criteria to be added to the poll was that it's at least proven it can compete in a tournament. When was the last time you saw Countersliver represent and perform well at a large event? 1998?

Volt
03-13-2007, 11:23 PM
I believe some of the criteria to be added to the poll was that it's at least proven it can compete in a tournament. When was the last time you saw Countersliver represent and perform well at a large event? 1998?

CounterSliver? What's that? I was talking about Affinity.



Okay, I was talking about CounterSliver. I don't want to start a flame war or anything, but I thought the criterion was good decks that aren't getting played. But whatever. In any case, it will get played in Columbus.

Pinder
03-14-2007, 02:06 AM
Okay, I was talking about CounterSliver. I don't want to start a flame war or anything, but I thought the criterion was good decks that aren't getting played. But whatever. In any case, it will get played in Columbus.

Well, we certainly have it made in the 'not played' department, and, in our opinion, the 'good deck' department as well, but we're going to need for this thing to preform well in a major tourney before a lot of people will be convinced of that. To put it succinctly, our deck hasn't done anything yet. That's why I didn't post along the same lines earlier. Something big better happen at the GP, though, or we're screwed :laugh:.

Bryant Cook
03-14-2007, 09:53 AM
Leds are like 9 a piece, mox at 15, wish at 15, cities are somewhat expensive. I think affinity is cheaper. Blinkmoth and ravager are the only cards that are "expensive".

Do you use Ebay?
LED's $4
BWish $5
Chrome Mox $8
City of Brass $2.50

You can easily build TES for under a hundred dollars off Ebay; hell I bought my S-chinese Moxen for less than what you said.

Volt
03-14-2007, 10:09 AM
Well, we certainly have it made in the 'not played' department, and, in our opinion, the 'good deck' department as well, but we're going to need for this thing to preform well in a major tourney before a lot of people will be convinced of that. To put it succinctly, our deck hasn't done anything yet. That's why I didn't post along the same lines earlier. Something big better happen at the GP, though, or we're screwed :laugh:.

Well, it's not something I have a lot of angst about. There will be, like, 4 of us playing Slivers in columbus, out of a field of 500+. So, as good as we think the deck is, I wouldn't place our expectations too high. But enough of that. I didn't mean to turn this thread into the "Why not my deck? *sob*" thread.



Do you use Ebay?
LED's $4
BWish $5
Chrome Mox $8
City of Brass $2.50

You can easily build TES for under a hundred dollars off Ebay; hell I bought my S-chinese Moxen for less than what you said.

That's exaggerating just a bit. Although you might be able to snipe the occasional LED for $4, and the occasional Chrome Mox for $8, that's certainly not the norm, even on ebay. And there are the usual caveats and hazards that go along with buying stuff on ebay. Still, though, TES is a relatively cheap deck to put together. And everybody should have it in their gauntlet.

Finn
03-14-2007, 10:47 AM
Affinity is pretty cheap. But you know, with TES now in the mix there really are a lot of options for new players.

Goblins is almost reasonable
TES is reasonable
Affinity is reasonable


...and ultimately,
Rabid Wombat
Spring Tide
Burn
Angel Stompy, Death and Taxes, WW, etc.

All these decks can be largely built with cards a lot of players outside Legacy already own. This poll was fun to see. Perhaps one about cheap decks for newcomers would be useful.

EDIT: I would have voted for Slivers if it were available.
EDIT: I just realized that none of the common European decks are even on that list.
43 land
Faerie Stompy
Uber Madness
etc.
From what I understand, the German metagame is very well-developed. I am amazed that you guys still are not acknowledging that more.

Peter_Rotten
03-14-2007, 11:28 AM
From what I understand, the German metagame is very well-developed. I am amazed that you guys still are not acknowledging that more.

The lack of combo in the German meta always makes me... I don't know what the right word is... suspicious? wary? I don't know. It's inexplicable to me. If 43land is winning, then why the hell are ppl not playing any of the 3 viable storm combo decks?

Also, none of those decks you listed seem to be able to perform well in American metas. Why is that? And vice versa... why aren't combo decks doing well in Germany?

I think that these are interesting questions that I'd love to see addressed by someone knowledgeable about both metas. /hint@SCG-WeeklyColumnWriters

Volt
03-14-2007, 11:39 AM
Goblins is almost reasonable

Yeah, especially if you stick to mono-red and don't bother with fetch-lands for "thinning," which I think is next to pointless.

Eldariel
03-14-2007, 03:52 PM
Also, none of those decks you listed seem to be able to perform well in American metas. Why is that? And vice versa... why aren't combo decks doing well in Germany?

I'd just like to point out that Faerie Stompy has actually Top 8d a couple of times in the US too, including the TMLO Day 1 list (turns out it's something of an FS-variant), and at many side events at larger tournaments around the world. Out of that list, FS is really the only deck that isn't 'Europe-only' phenomenon.

Also, decks like Loamageddon seem to actually do rather decently against combo. At least from reading 49 Cents's report, he's beaten a bunch of Tendrils-combo (through Chants, Confinements and Geddons) and some Solidarity. Perhaps they've got the 'bad player'-syndrome Finland suffered of too, but more than likely the deck actually has a decent combo-MU. Übermadness and 43 Lands seem like metagame choices more than anything else unless teched out to beat combo (which, mind you, seems perfectly possible with 43 lands being perfectly able to support Trinisphere and Chalice and Übermadness Therapies and SB-hate).

Zilla
03-14-2007, 05:00 PM
Also, none of those decks you listed seem to be able to perform well in American metas. Why is that? And vice versa... why aren't combo decks doing well in Germany?
Because they play a metric fuckton of Deadguy Ale, Rock, and UGr Thresh there. It's a very harsh climate for combo.

SpatulaOfTheAges
03-14-2007, 05:28 PM
Actually, looking at more recent German tournaments, I see a fair amount of combo.

Shriekmaw
03-14-2007, 07:00 PM
Do you use Ebay?
LED's $4
BWish $5
Chrome Mox $8
City of Brass $2.50

You can easily build TES for under a hundred dollars off Ebay; hell I bought my S-chinese Moxen for less than what you said.


Have you checked the prices of Burning Wish and Chrome Mox lately. The prices have gone up because of extended season. Your deck is a lot more expensive to build. Nice Try.

MattH
03-14-2007, 07:11 PM
Do you use Ebay?
LED's $4
BWish $5
Chrome Mox $8
City of Brass $2.50

You can easily build TES for under a hundred dollars off Ebay; hell I bought my S-chinese Moxen for less than what you said.

Most of those prices have gone up since you bought the stuff. Based on the 1.x TEPS deck and Aggro Loam, Burning Wish was briefly running $10+ recently, and has cooled back to about $8. LEDs and Chrome Moxes are similarly about $2 higher than you quote (citation (http://magictraders.com/cgi-bin/query.cgi?list=magic&target=chrome+mox&field=0&operator=re), and those prices may be slightly lower than they should be because I don't know how far back those stats count).

Gemstone Mines are also running about $4 each, much higher than they used to since they're standard-legal now. All in all the deck is not that expensive but it is in no way Affinity-class cheap, which is almost literally Ravagers ($6.50*4 = $26), Needles (somewhat optional), City of Brass and Vials ($2.00*8 = $16), and commons that most players will still have left over (and aren't epensive even if they don't).

And if you're buying from dealers, the price difference only goes higher.

kicks_422
03-14-2007, 08:26 PM
At any rate, TES is still cheaper than most, around 2/3 of the price of most decks... Which is alright considering that it's a competitive bunch of cards.

After the Extended season is over and Gemstone Mine is out of Standard (or even just after RAV rotates out, since people won't need all the color-fixing), the price would probably go down to $150ish.

I think TES will go a long way, more than all other decks mentioned. It will at *least* T8 at GP Columbus.

MattH
03-14-2007, 09:29 PM
At any rate, TES is still cheaper than most, around 2/3 of the price of most decks... Which is alright considering that it's a competitive bunch of cards.
Yeah, it's still one of the more reasonable decks. It's also helped by the fact that none of its cards are both expensive and narrow - it has no Sea Drake or Reset, investments that can't be used towards something else.

I won't say I EXPECT it to T8 but I can definitely see it happening.

Bane of the Living
03-27-2007, 10:22 PM
AfFOWnity

Peter_Rotten
03-27-2007, 10:32 PM
We're through here. Purpose served.