Real cards but..

[Radley]

Can you use real cards but with a proxy art? a dark ritual but you change the drawing of the card?

[Atwa]

Can you use real cards but with a proxy art? a dark ritual but you change the drawing of the card?

Officially, this isn't allowed, but most of the time, judges allow it as long as you don't alter the art so much, you can't tell anymore which card it is.

Every player must be able to tell which card(s) you have on the table, by just looking on the art. As long as you only change the face of a caracter, or alter a background, everything will be fine.

If you change the art of the Dark Ritual, so it looks like it is a Counterspell (asuming you can draw that well), judges won't allow you to play with it, since most opponenets will think you are playing a counterspell.

[Firebrothers]

Read this article it will tell you everything you need to know.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/feature/34

[Brushwagg]

As long as the text box and card name, and casting cost are visable, then it doesn't matter.

[cdr]

As long as the text box and card name, and casting cost are visable, then it doesn't matter.

Also, the art has to be recognisable. It's the head judge's call, as mentioned.

[Radley]

Firebrother, thanks for the link but it didn't answer all of my question though. Still helpful.

What if I made the goblin in the goblin lackey look like batman?

[Cait_Sith]

That SHOULD be okay, but the Head Judge has the final say if it is or not. The rule of thumb, like they said before, is if the name, cost, (although less important, you really shouldn't mess with these anyway) type line, and text box are legible, it should be allowed.

[cdr]

That SHOULD be okay, but the Head Judge has the final say if it is or not. The rule of thumb, like they said before, is if the name, cost, (although less important, you really shouldn't mess with these anyway) type line, and text box are legible, it should be allowed.

Again, you forgot the art. The art should not be modified to the point where it is no longer recognisable.

[Brushwagg]

I don't see the big deal with art. RTFC.

[TheAardvark]

As you know by now, people don't RTFC, and the DCI actually encourages them not to do so. Their clarion call of "everyone recognizes cards by the art" is not only asinine, it is false, as I recognize a card by its, you know, name. I had Chokes that had the art blacked out and the Kansas Jayhawks logo colored in over the box and they were not allowed in a PTQ, which is bullshit because 1). they were English, and everything but the art was unmarred; 2). they were fucking hot; and 3). the Head Judge was a Hoosiers fan.

The moral is: don't RTFC because it isn't required.

The moral should be: learn to correlate the card's name with its text and shut the fuck up.

[Radley]

It's just that arts of goblins aren't cool. Goblin card's art sucks arse so I'd rather modify their face so they'd look cool.

Modifying the arts shouldn't be a problem because it's not our fault we don't appreciate the art. Well, just don't make the card look like another card because it's naughty.

What does RTFC means by the way?

[ForceofWill]

What does RTFC means by the way?

READ THE F-ING CARD

[Radley]

What if you black out the art then write the name of that card in the art. e.g. opt card, black opt card then put the word opt really big, they'd be stupid not to read it :laugh:

[Pinder]

This reminds me of a picture I saw where someone wrote "NOT A SMOKESTACK" on top of a Smokestack to spite judges for this sort of thing. Can anyone remember who that was, or provide a link?

[Parcher]

This reminds me of a picture I saw where someone wrote "NOT A SMOKESTACK" on top of a Smokestack to spite judges for this sort of thing. Can anyone remember who that was, or provide a link?

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showpost.php?p=90062&postcount=61

[Radley]

Damn, just wrote "not a smokestack" on art? How about the real artist of the card altering the image. e.g. Sliver queen's art altered by ron spears. Who ever made that rule about the art is stupid. If they encourage the players to play and just recognise the card by the art, maybe we can change the text box then and maybe we can draw pictures on it.

[iOWN]

How about the real artist of the card altering the image. e.g. Sliver queen's art altered by ron spears.

When artists alter art, they typically do so in a way that is relevant to the original piece. For example, toasting marshmellows on firebreathing or Hulk/Spiderman/Whatever FoWs. The problem arises when you erase the card's art completely and replace it with your own, so that it may not resemble the card whatsoever and can lead to miscommunication or even cheating.

[Radley]

What about the smokestack that only has "not a smokestack" on the art? Didn't remove the art whatsoever.

[Cait_Sith]

He did that AFTER the other cards were pulled out to spite the judge.

[kirdape3]

You realize that 'recognize by art' is done to make sure that people can, you know, recognize different-languaged cards? Otherwise known as CAN YOU READ SIMPLIFIED CHINESE? NO?! I DON'T THINK SO.

[Radley]

If foreign cards are allowed, maybe we can now edit the text box and the name of the card as long as the art is recognisable and the casting cost. Lol, I'm going to erase the text box and the name of the card and I will say to the judge it's chinese anyway :laugh:

I will always ask for a judge everytime my opponent play a foreign card or textless even if I know the card, especially if I won the first game or if I'm winning.

[Cait_Sith]

Foreign cards are allowed. Grand Prixs can draw people from a large number of languages, so it is inherent that foreign cards are allowed.

Also, utterly destroying the name and text box of a card is not wise, since some cards have multiple arts. In short, don't do anything really stupid (it also devalues the card, so be careful with the rarer ones)

[Radley]

I can rub it out with alcohol anyway ^_^

So textbox and name of the card is not important but the art is important? How stupid is that? :laugh:

[Lego]

I will always ask for a judge everytime my opponent play a foreign card or textless even if I know the card, especially if I won the first game or if I'm winning.

If the judge thinks you're stalling, he can give you a warning for it, regardless of whether or not what you are doing is within the rules. If he believes your sole purpose for doing something is to stall, he will warn you, and if you continue to do it the punishment will escalate.

[Radley]

I don't know chinese. Unless someone shows me an english version card. Oh well, I guess i can only do that to not so popular cards ^_^

[Cait_Sith]

You can actually just ask your opponent what the card is. They are obligated to tell you the truth. If you think they are lieing or making a mistake you may call of judge (or if the don't remember some of the card's rules text)

[Radley]

Nah, I'll just do it to delay the game. I'll only do it if the card is not that popular. Punish those foreign and textless cards users :laugh:

[Cait_Sith]

I'll just do it to delay the game.

This isn't funny. Delaying the game is cheating and, if done too often, can result in severe punishment.

[Radley]

Using foreign cards gives the user an advantage if the opponent knows the card but forgot something about that foreign card.

[Cait_Sith]

Using foreign cards gives the user an advantage if the opponent knows the card but forgot something about that foreign card.

Scenario 1:

Your opponent is Chinese, you are American. He uses Simplified Chinese cards. You use American English cards. Who is receiving the unfair advantage?

Scenario 2:

Your exact scenario. If you aren't sure about something on a card ask your opponent. He MUST tell you the truth. If he himself is unsure call a judge.

Scenario 3:

Your exact scenario, except without asking. Sucks to be you. There is no stigma for a player using a card of a foreign language.

[Radley]

Scenario 1:

Your opponent is Chinese, you are American. He uses Simplified Chinese cards. You use American English cards. Who is receiving the unfair advantage?

Scenario 2:

Your exact scenario. If you aren't sure about something on a card ask your opponent. He MUST tell you the truth. If he himself is unsure call a judge.

Scenario 3:

Your exact scenario, except without asking. Sucks to be you. There is no stigma for a player using a card of a foreign language.


Scenario 1:

You can't understand chinese but your chinese opponent understands english. I guess you know who got the advantage. Sometimes, you just need to look at your opponent's card again to make sure what it does but if it's foreign, you can't do that.

Scenario 2:

Your opponent told you was wrong but you agreed because you thought he was right. You lost and after the tournament you found out that you would've won that game if you only knew the card's real text is.

Scenario 3:

Won't happen because I'll always ask the judge so I can delay the game.

[Nightmare]

Scenario 1: You know what cards do, because as someone who invests time and money into this game, you've actually learned what all the cards do. If not, call the Judge.

Scenario 2: Never rely on your opponent for any information. If you have a question, ask a judge.

Scenario 3: Intentionally utilizing the clock to gain an advantage in a match is a penalty, potentially a severe one. If I were judging the event, and you called me over to ask what a card did more than one time, I would be suspicious, and you'd be in trouble. Stalling the game is cheating, and you can be issued game losses or worse.

[noobslayer]

Scenario 3: Intentionally utilizing the clock to gain an advantage in a match is a penalty, potentially a severe one. If I were judging the event, and you called me over to ask what a card did more than one time, I would be suspicious, and you'd be in trouble. Stalling the game is cheating, and you can be issued game losses or worse.

Unless said card is Humility, strange triggers, or some complex interactions are taking place. I think under those circumstances a judge would be understanding. But for most other situations, if you want others to take you seriously as a player, it's in your best interest to know how all these cards work.

[Radley]

Scenario 1: You know what cards do, because as someone who invests time and money into this game, you've actually learned what all the cards do. If not, call the Judge.

Scenario 2: Never rely on your opponent for any information. If you have a question, ask a judge.

Scenario 3: Intentionally utilizing the clock to gain an advantage in a match is a penalty, potentially a severe one. If I were judging the event, and you called me over to ask what a card did more than one time, I would be suspicious, and you'd be in trouble. Stalling the game is cheating, and you can be issued game losses or worse.

@3- You'd be seeing more of me if I were in a tourney you'll judge if my opponent has foreign cards because I'm not familiar with most of the cards in legacy.

[Nightmare]

That's your responsibility, not your opponents, nor the judge's. Part of being a tournament player is the assumption that you have some idea of what cards do and how to play the game.

[bigbear102]

Or Radley could just be ignored so this thread doesn't degenerate into useless posts..... oh, wait.... I wish I was a mod...

[jodawe]

I was at a large DCI sanctioned tourney a year or so ago and I was playing with opts that I blacked out all but the girl on the pic with a sharpie. About 70% of the pic is blacked out.

I was beating the crap out of a whiny burn player and he called a judge on my opts. The judge told me that the card was legal as long as the name, casting cost, power / toughness and text box were unmodified, the card was legal...

This particular judge didn't strike me as being the brightest but that was his ruling... Using his logic I could have been disqualified for using flash of insights that the artists signed over the text but nobody saw those.:smile:

[Radley]

There should be a rule for altered art of cards. Not just the preference of the judge. If there is already a rule about that please post here.

[Cait_Sith]

From the Floor Rules:

103. Card Interpretation
Cards are interpreted using the Oracle card reference. During sanctioned tournaments, players must refer to this version of a card to settle disputes concerning the interpretation of a card’s wording or abilities. Card abilities are based on card text, not artwork.

This is the only thing in the Floor Rules that mentions artwork.

[Peter_Rotten]

Enough already.