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Kronicler
09-02-2007, 01:11 PM
Wow, that list looks sooo frickin terrible. 3 Serendibs?!?! Faerie Conclaves!??! I cannot see how this list is any good at all.

Kronicler

georgjorge
09-05-2007, 10:26 AM
I don't want to splash either...but for those wanting to, I've found a nice gimmick in the Lorwyn spoiler to protect from removal.

Favor the Mighty 1W

Tribal Enchantment - Giant

Each creature with the highest converted mana cost among creatures has protection from all colors.

zulander
09-05-2007, 10:42 AM
Here's a mono-blue list I'm currently testing.

Mana: 21
4 Chrome Mox
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Seat of the Synod
7 Island

Creatures: 19
4 Looter Il-Kor
4 Trinket Mage
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Sea Drake
3 Juggernaut

Control: 10
4 FoW
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
1 E.E

Other: 10
3 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Sword of Fire and Ice

Sideboard: 15
4 Trinisphere
4 Trickbind
4 Echoing Truth
2 Pithing Needle
1 EE

Somethings I'd like to mention.
Foresee This card was generally solid, but it was too slow for what it did, and being a sorcery actually sucked a couple of the games I tested it in. I think I'll stick with TfK seeing as to how the card has almost no downside in the deck. Late game I get bombs, early game I get bombs, and I'm usually discarding the useless chalice/chromes in my hand so the drawback is almost never a big deal.

Looter Il-Kor vs Cloud of Faeries I'm going to have to say it, but looter il-kor is by far and away better here. He's even better with equipment too. Sure you don't have the CoF => Jitte + equip play, but in the 100 games I've tested that only came up 3 times, so it really wasn't that redic. This game also helps in case you go to late game, he sculpts your hand while beating in and cant be chumped by another flier. More decks play fliers than shadow.

Juggs Until they print a better blue card that can beat in I'll play this guy. I'd like to up the blue count though for force and put in something like Weatherseed Faeries. But they aren't a clock like this guy is on turn2. Maybe some MD burn via Psionic Blast? Only time and testing will tell.

3sphere This card is a beating against a ton of other decks, especially storm combo. Post board you almost can't lose due to chalice + 3sphere + trickbind + FoW.

finley
09-05-2007, 03:31 PM
zulander why are you running Serendib Djinn.

zulander
09-05-2007, 03:42 PM
zulander why are you running Serendib Djinn.
Sorry, it was supposed to be serendib efreet.

Muradin
09-06-2007, 04:26 AM
What do you guys think of Silver Myr in Faery Stompy?
It makes many otherwise bad hands keepable by being cast first turn out of a tomb or a city and fixes the manabase a lot.
Furthermore in the lategame it can take an equipment and sometimes become a threat. In P/T it is as good as Cloud of Faerys, only that it's missing flying.
Therefore the accleration he provides is not online for one turn like with Cloud of Faerys but he acclerates and fixes your mana all game long.

Taurelin
09-06-2007, 04:37 AM
+ pitches to TFK

- no evasion
- doesn't pitch to FoW and Chrome Mox
- not tutorable via Trnket Mage
- dies to both artifact and creature removal

HdH_Cthulhu
09-06-2007, 06:52 AM
But Serendib Jinn isnt taht bad!? I think he is better than Juggernout...

+Pitches to Fow
+Evasion
+Realy Huge > Goyf
+Could block

- UU
- Sac lands in Upkeep

+/- some synergie with City...
Hmm he is not that great but he is better than Jugg!

zulander
09-06-2007, 10:21 AM
No he isn't. Juggs can be cast fairly easy, even on turn2. Only way djinn is online turn 2 is when you have moxen out, in which case you can't pay his upkeep costs.

I don't see how the djinn is better.

cheddercaveman
09-06-2007, 02:02 PM
I'd personally think that Maelstrom Djinn is better than Serendib Djinn, yea its an investment of 6 mana, but you'll get 10 damage in (i'm guessing it doesnt die much either because people just figure it'll die on its own). Only draw back to Juggs is just the lack of evasion I suppose, but 5 power is good, especially if you throw a jitte or SOFI on it.

HdH_Cthulhu
09-06-2007, 03:29 PM
Maelstorm Djinn? Maby with Trickbiend? :confused: ok that is a different deck...

VsTheWorld
09-06-2007, 05:06 PM
Maelstrom Djinn is certainly playable without Trickbind. I was testing it in my monoblue version before I got access to Volcanic Islands to facilitate a red splash. While I wasn't THAT impressed with it, the fact that it can pitch to FoW and Chrome Mox plus comes with evasion makes me think it is a much better choice than Juggs. Also, while not incredibly important, it CAN block an average sized Goyf and live to tell about it. The two turns where an opposing big dude can't get through should usually buy you enough time to swing through with a Drake or Efreet.

zulander
09-06-2007, 07:20 PM
He just seems so much win more for some reason. I just don't like him that much. I'd rather pay 6 for mahmoti than maelstorm.

Phantom
09-06-2007, 08:50 PM
@Zulander: I like a lot of things in your build. My biggest knock against Looter was always the fact that he was so terrible in the Goblins matcup. Ditto for Juggs (who gets chumped to death and got even worse when they released Hooligan, Grip, and Grudge) so you may be right about their inclusion here (I'm not sure about cutting Cloud since he speeds the deck up so much, but then again, I'm not sure about NOT cutting him).

The biggest thing I see is the complete lack of Crypts in the board. That's hard to understand considering the current meta. Also, your board looks way too focused on the combo matchup for a deck with an already solid combo game. I mean, you already have Chalice, Force, Explosives, Needle and a quick clock for Storm combo. Do you really need to board in 4 Trinispheres, 4 Trickbinds, AND 4 Echoing Truth? I would think about some anti Thresh or 'goyf tech in there.

zulander
09-06-2007, 10:11 PM
Yeah the board needs a bit work, but during my play testing we've been only testing MD and not boards, so I don't know what I'd put in the board as of now. Most likely 2 EE and 4 crypt, along with some E.Truth and trickbind and some board hate for goblins like chill. I think that's solid enough, maybe the 4th TfK as well for the control matchup.

As far as goblins is concerned the best thing to do is get an active piece of equipment going. Jitte is preferred, but pre-board I'm not sure about the macthup, I don't know if you can kill them before they kill you. Post it's a bit better with chill but definitely a bit harder.

finley
09-06-2007, 10:33 PM
Against goblins Weatherseed Faeries use to be a beast. He kills all the goblins except for Piledriver while flying and being a nice target for equipement. He fits into the curve and also allows keeps pressure on your opponent.

Clark Kant
09-06-2007, 10:44 PM
I still stand firmly behind my build from five months ago. Five months and there isn't a single thing I was ever unhappy with to this day (except that singleton Phyrexian Marauder which I wound up cutting for an Engineered Explosives).



// Lands
2 [MR] Seat of the Synod
8 [TS] Island
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [EX] City of Traitors

// Creatures
4 [FS] Infiltrator il-Kor
4 [FD] Trinket Mage
4 [RV] Serendib Efreet
4 [P2] Sea Drake
4 [FS] Maelstrom Djinn
1 [MM] Misdirection
1 [RV] Phyrexian Marauder
1 [SK] Pithing Needle

// Spells
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
3 [BK] Umezawa's Jitte

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 [DS] Sensei's Divining Top
SB: 1 [SK] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 [4E] Winter Orb
SB: 2 [MM] Misdirection
SB: 3 [DS] Trinisphere
SB: 3 [UN] Weatherseed Faeries

It fixes the consistency problems somewhat by going up to 10 Blue Lands. It runs Misdirection as a nice surprise. The first time you Misdirect someone's Hymn or Swords back to them, they fear the card for the rest of the game. Plus, sometimes, 4 FoW just doesn't feel like enough protection for your threats.

I disagree with your assessment that combo is always an easy matchup. Before Trinisphere, I've repeatedly found it to be actually around or slightly under 50/50 or so, which actually makes it one of this deck's worser matchups. Misdirection sometimes doesn't do enough.

Infiltrator is a hell of a lot better than Cloud of Fairies. It's every bit the clock that Efreet is, plus gets around stuff like Enforcers and what not.

And you can almost always count of Djinn for 10 points of damage, easily enough to finish off your opponent.

Five Force type effects to protect your threats when you can't play a Chalice at 1 really feels like the right number, especially with the high saturation of blue.

As far as I am concerned, Sensei's Top, and arguably Marauder and maindecking Misdirection are the only iffy cards in the deck. I could see myself cutting them for Psionic Blast, Juggernaut or perhaps Foresee or Rushing River or Weatherseed Fairies or TfK, but everything else has been rock solid.

I highly recommend people try this build out.

zulander
09-16-2007, 10:50 AM
Pestermite 2u
Creature - Faerie Rogue Common
Flash
Flying
When Pestermite comes into play, you may tap or untap target permanent.
2/1

Seems pretty good, untap some lands or untap an attacking creature. What do you guys think?

FredMaster
09-16-2007, 10:53 AM
I think one of the even meaner tricks you can do is to untap an attacked Ifrit/Drake with Equipment on him to block target random critter.
That seems kinda evil.
That has to be a part of the deck.

Eldariel
09-16-2007, 11:02 AM
It might be playable; a decent tempo-card and can be used to play-equip too. Handy to have abilities like that on a creature. Upkeep: Ice you, play a guy sounds about right against some control-decks with 4-mana bombs.

Happy Gilmore
09-22-2007, 10:41 PM
To those out there still interested in Faerie Stompy:

Can the deck abuse Thorn of Amethyst? Discuss.

xsockmonkeyx
09-22-2007, 10:44 PM
Pestermite 2u
Creature - Faerie Rogue Common
Flash
Flying
When Pestermite comes into play, you may tap or untap target permanent.
2/1

Seems pretty good, untap some lands or untap an attacking creature. What do you guys think?

It costs :2::u:, flys and untaps a Tomb/City. Not bad. You could potentially play it, untap a double land and equip it on the same turn I guess.

mikekelley
09-22-2007, 11:19 PM
Or:

City, Mox, Pestermite
Untap city
Chalice @ 1


Talk about dumping your hand.

zulander
09-23-2007, 12:09 AM
And it has flash, I nice little surprise. Seems like a better version of cloud of faeries.

finley
09-23-2007, 02:14 PM
Cloud of Faeries serves a different roll. You gain mana from Cloud, not so much with the Pestermite.

FredMaster
09-23-2007, 02:24 PM
Pestermite's tricks are still better :cool:

Eldariel
09-23-2007, 02:43 PM
Both have a place here, I think. I find Pestermite's ability to hold off an attack or lock down a land quite handy here. Now, if we just could find that 3U flyer worth playing... :S

georgjorge
09-23-2007, 04:36 PM
Mistblind Clique casting cost: 3U
Creature Faerie wizard

Flash, Flying
Champion a Faerie. When a Faerie is championed with Mistbind Clique, tap all lands target player controls.
4/4


Now bear with me...IF you run a version with four Clouds and four Pestermites, it might be worth it running one or two of those. The theory behind it is that with four Force and four Chrome Mox, it is better to run some cards that can be spectacular sometimes but suck at othertimes then go for stability, since you can cast the cards that are spectacular in a certain matchup and pitch the other ones. Now the Clique is certainly spectacular if you got one of your eight Faeries on the board, cause not only is it a big flyer, but it can save your Faerie from removal or combat damage at the same time as well !

BreathWeapon
09-23-2007, 10:00 PM
Another interesting creature,

Mulldrifter 4U
Creature - Elemental
Flying
When Mulldrifter comes into play, draw two cards.
Evoke 2{U} (You may play this spell for its evoke cost. If you do, it's sacrificed when it comes into play)
2/2

It's a Thirst for Knowledge that can beat down.

Goaswerfraiejen
09-23-2007, 10:51 PM
Another interesting creature,



It's a Thirst for Knowledge that can beat down.

I definitely think that this needs to be tested. While its body is paltry, it also goes a long way towards "goblinificating" the deck--that is, using creatures to perform the more mundane tasks, thus increasing aggressivity while maintaining consistency.

Pestermite isn't bad, but this is better. Or so I think--testing will tell, I suppose.

BreathWeapon
09-24-2007, 02:08 AM
The card is more or less a Thirst for Knowledge with a Kicker of 2: Put a 2/2 flier into play, but the most interesting aspect of the card is that it eliminates Bridge from Below as well.

Pinder
09-24-2007, 02:31 AM
It's a Thirst for Knowledge that can beat down.

More like a Counsel of the Soratami that can beat down. If you want to pay 5. I don't really see this guy getting played much in Legacy, and even if, I doubt it will do much more than draw 2 cards for 3 mana most of the time (and at that point wouldn't you just play TfK or Compulsive Research?).

BreathWeapon
09-24-2007, 06:19 AM
More like a Counsel of the Soratami that can beat down. If you want to pay 5. I don't really see this guy getting played much in Legacy, and even if, I doubt it will do much more than draw 2 cards for 3 mana most of the time (and at that point wouldn't you just play TfK or Compulsive Research?).

I prefer it to both, the +2 card advantage is guaranteed as opposed to discarding an artifact or a land, and it RFGs Bridge from Below. That alone makes it at least on par with Thirst for Knowledge and Compulsive Research, but the "Kicker" puts it over the top, IMO.

I'm not certain it's enough tho', because I've become disenchanted with draw spells in this deck on the whole, but for people running Thirst for Knowledge, it begs consideration.

cianty
09-24-2007, 06:45 AM
Hey y'all!

What do you think about this card:

Sower of Temptation 2UU
Creature - Faerie Wizard
Flying
When Sower of Temptation comes into play, gain control of target creature as long as Sower of Temptation remains in play.
2/2

Looks pretty good to me. At least it is a better Control Magic (is it better?). I will definately test it. Furthermore the Pestermites will replace my 3 Weatherseed Faeries I am currently running in the main.

finley
09-24-2007, 05:46 PM
Sower of Temptation does need to be tested. It allows us to steal goyfs and/or any other creature that is stopping us from being more aggressive. Not to mention is blue for Fow/Chrome Mox, and if other faerie depended cards become more useful, Mistblind Clique for example it can support there.

Goaswerfraiejen
09-24-2007, 07:46 PM
Sower of Temptation does need to be tested. It allows us to steal goyfs and/or any other creature that is stopping us from being more aggressive. Not to mention is blue for Fow/Chrome Mox, and if other faerie depended cards become more useful, Mistblind Clique for example it can support there.

I'm not convinced. Gilded Drake does the same thing, but it does it permanently, costs half as much mana, and costs less blue. It does have the disadvantage of giving your opponent a flying beater, but who cares if you've taken a Tarmogoyf? Sower is much more fragile and doesn't really deal with the problematic creature, since it'll revert back to your opponent's control as soon as he deals with the fragile Sower. And FS still doesn't run it.

cianty
09-25-2007, 03:02 AM
But your opponent has to deal with it. And that's what Chalice @ 1 is for. Also it is one more must-kill for your opponent that lets Drakes and Efreets live a little longer.
Gilded Drake is horrible because your opponents gets a creature (which is in the cae of a Tarmogoyf weaker BUT) which has flying and so takes away our advantage of having evasion creatures. A Gilded Drake can block and kill a Sea Drake so that's obviously not even close to a Control Magic with a flying body on our side.

However, Sower of Temptation sure has very poor synergy with the champion a faerie mechanic...

xycsoscyx
09-25-2007, 02:09 PM
With Gilded Drake, there's always the possibility of Capsize. With the acceleration of Tomb/City and Moxen, it shouldn't be too difficult to start bouncing a few things with buyback (including the Gilded Drake). The nice thing about something like Capsize is that it should rarely be a dead card (since when is bouncing a permanent a bad thing?).

e_hawk77
09-26-2007, 03:33 AM
Why is this deck not played anymore? it seems really good it has enough disruption to get wins against combo and it is fast enough and big enough to beat decks like treashold. this is list that i was thinking of running let me know what you think.

4 cloud of faeries
3 sea sprite
4 sea drake
4 serendib effret
2 trinket mage
2 juggernut

3 sword of fire and ice
3 umezawa's jitte
4 chalice of the void
1 pithing needle
1 tormad's crypt
4 crome mox

3 thirst for knowledge
4 force of will

9 island
2 seat of the synod
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors

sb
1 engineered explosives
1 tormad's crypt
3 propaganda
3 back to basics
2 trickbind
3 chill
2 threads of disloyalty


i really didn't like psionic blast in the deck and i always seemed to have to many trinket mages but not enough targets same with the equipment. so i cut 1 of each trinket mage and one sword of fire and ice for 2 juggernuts and both psionic blast for lands (this way i don't have so many mulligans). i also think that while it might just be a little flier the mana acceleration that cloud of faeries gives you is amazing. with juggernut in the deck it increases the plays. you can't get the turn 2 juggy more often which is just nuts btw. tell me what you think.

cianty
09-26-2007, 04:06 AM
I used to run Sea Sprite in my first versions of the deck but then found Weatherseed Faeries to be strictly better because 2U is better supported than 1U. I hated going Mox, Tomb, Sprite, take 3... I never found Weatherseed Faeries to be too costly compared to the Sprites.
Serendib Efreet is the best beater in the deck (#2 being Sea Drake - or is it the other way around?) despite the lifeloss. He is immune to Lightning Bolt and there is absolutely no reason not to run a full playset.
Trinket Mage into Chalice @ 1 or 2 is the only real reason to play this deck and I'd say the only chance of winning the Thresh and Combo Matchup. If you don't have the first turn chalice at least go: play Trinket Mage, fetch Chalice, play Chalice on 2nd turn. Never ever play less than 4. Maybe 3 if you don't have the relevant decks in your meta.
I tried Juggernaut and Phyrexian War Beast but none of them was satisfying. My creature base looks like this:

// Creatures (19)
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Sea Drake
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Trinket Mage
3 Weatherseed Faeries

Once Lorwyn is unleashed Petermites will replace the Weatherseed Faeries and will try 2 Sower of Temptation though I don't know yet what to drop for them.

Also I wouldn't drop a Sword of Fire and Ice. Maybe exchange one with the fourth Jitte but a total of 7 equipment works best - at least for me.

Everything else looks quite similar to my list. I also don't run Psyonic Blasts - never did, never will.

Good luck with the deck! It sure is my favorite Legacy deck (cause playing Mono blue aggro feels plain wroooong! Ha ha)

Maveric78f
09-26-2007, 04:15 AM
Who told you that it was not played ? It's still one of the best archetype in the format.

Your list has some "obviously bad" choices.

Main Deck :
2 trinket mage only ? chalice of the void is the reason to be of this deck and equipments make your mage stupidly good. It should be a 4-of. And Juggernaut is completely useless, it's not pichable to mox or fow, it can't block, it's a creature AND an artifact in the yard and tarmogoyf does not need that, etc...

Tormod MD may be a metamage call. I would not play it myself, as it resolves absolutely nothing against tarmogoyf.

2*seat of the synod is a bad idea, even more if you play B2B in SB.

SideBoard :
Why play a second tormod's crypt ?

No reason to play threads over control magic or binding grasp.

Chill ? What against ? REB ? You already play chalice.

Trickbind ???

B2B although you play only 9 basic lands and nothing to fetch them ? Moreover it's far inferior to winter orb.

e_hawk77
09-26-2007, 12:22 PM
the sideboard i took from some of the japanese list and i didn't have control magics so i used threads but i understand that control magic is better.

back to basics it totally nuts (it could be my meta). it crushes loam assault, land still, threashold, and other random decks with too many colors. it also doesn't hurt me all that bad cuz i have cloud of faeries and sea drake to untap my lands.

chill was in all the lists i was looking at. and it seems okay versus random burn and goblins. yes goblins has vial and lackey but if you can stop those two things they won't be able to play anything while you bash them for around 7 every turn. also red green goyf beats/burn deck are popular where i play. they are actually really fast and do very well. they are like urg treash without the cantrips and more burn.

also trickbind is better then stifle cuz against combo you usually want a chalice on 0 and 1 and if you do that stiffle can do anything anymore. it is true that they shouldn't be able to do much anymore but if they get rid of the one on 0 and go off you still have trickbind.

Joon
09-26-2007, 12:55 PM
I don't know how you play but to be honest I play (when I know I'am playing against Storm Combo) First Chalice @ 0 and afterwards CHalice @ 2 because Chalice at 2 forbids their main tutors, Infernal and Burning Wish. Chalice @ 1 forbids also Needle, which sucks against Belchzor (optimal case: Chalice @ 0, CHalice @ 2 and Needle @ Belcher), so that they usually can't win.
Against Breakfast Chalice 1 or 2 seem to be the best choice (1 shuts down vial, Worldly Tutor, Nomads en-Kor, Duress/Thoughtseize, Portent/Visions & Brainstorm, 2 Illusionist, and...dunno actually).

kikkofrio
09-30-2007, 06:22 PM
do u know about a faerie stompy UW? I played against a player on mws, and he told me that uw faerie in very played in USA?
Is it true? there is a list on this deck?

VsTheWorld
09-30-2007, 08:54 PM
Faerie Stompy, at least here in Massachusetts, is not a very popular deck. I've only seen myself and one other person play it at the large tournaments I've attended. I've messed around a little bit with a white splash, but I wasn't overly impressed. White gives you access to Swords to Plowshares (barely in consideration here, since Chalice@1 is one of this deck's strongest opening plays), Meddling Mage (who should only be played in the board, as WU is tough for this deck to support, and who only typically only serves to make an already good combo matchup better), and Exalted Angel (also tough to play, since WW is difficult to hit consistently). You already have 8 big fliers in Drake and Efreet, and so Angel can be overkill (or useless if you can't find WW) a lot of the time.

My main reason for trying any splash is to increase the effectiveness of Engineered Explosives. EE@2 can blow up those pesky Goyfs who are far out of Jitte and/or SoFI range, as well as a bunch of other random crap. Recently, after gaining access to Volcanic Islands, I decided to try out a red splash. My list is as follows:

// Deck file for Magic Workstation
//NAME: Faerie Stompy

// Lands
1 Great Furnace
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Volcanic Island
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Island

// Creatures
4 Trinket Mage
4 Sea Drake
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Cloud of Faeries
3 Flametongue Kavu
2 Weatherseed Faeries

// Spells
1 Pithing Needle
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Force of Will
3 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Chrome Mox
1 Tormod's Crypt

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Flametongue Kavu
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Earthquake
SB: 3 Trickbind
SB: 3 Winter Orb

The main problem with any splash is that it requires an absolutely ugly mana base. One strength of playing monoblue is the relatively stable mana base. Wasteland can kill your 2-mana lands but will never cut you off from that all-important blue mana in the monoblue version, unless you happen to get incredibly unlucky and only hit the singleton Seat of the Synod played as an emergency Trinket Mage target.

If I were to play a UW list though, it would probably be something like:
MD:
-3 FtK
-2 Weatherseed (these are a metagame call)
-2 Volcanic
-1 Great Furnace
+1 Ancient Den
+2 Tundra
+2 Shoreline Ranger (finding WW is more important because of Angel)
+3 Exalted Angel

SB:
-3 Earthquake
+3 Meddling Mage

Honestly though, I strongly believe that the red splash is far superior to white. FtK can occasionally kill a Goyf or come out of nowhere and wreak havoc on a Sui player by hitting a Negator. It basically deals with any little problem creatures not named Mongoose, or can clear the way for itself to attack for 4 on the ground. Earthquake is an absolute beating against aggro, as it's usually a one-sided Wrath.

Anyway, hope this helps, and sorry for the epic post.

Phantom
09-30-2007, 10:18 PM
Well, I think the white splash has a tad more going for it than you talked about. First of all, the new expansion has given white Chalice decks the removal spell they have been looking for in Oblivion Ring. 2W, remove any non land permanent from the game is a beating in a deck that has trouble with removal, especially non creature removal.

I think Meddling Mage should be mainboarded in any white build. Shutting the opponent off from his removal is just too good against Agrro Control, and at worst he's a fantastic Mox imprint/Fow pitch.

I was always a fan of Court Hussar in the white splash build since he could still be useful if you didn't have access to white mana, but he was strongest in the Goblin matchup, so I doubt he belongs now.

I've called for the testing of Pride of the clouds in the white build. Looks good on paper in that he's another fantastic pitch/imprint, and can also give us some game against control (with a piece of equipment out, just start churning out the tokens and let them go the distance). It could be that he is much worse in practice than in theory.

Sadly both splashes have gotten worse in the last six months. Red's power came from FtK and being able to board in Clasm against Goblins. Well now no one plays Goblins (I personally think this might change) and FtK can't hit Goyf all the time (only the most prevalent creature ever). The best part about the splash is Explosives, but really the mono build can fit in a dual and some fetches to match that versatility.

The white splash could hang its hat on an incredible combo matchup with Fow/Chalice/Mage backed up with a quick clock. All these cards seem less powerful in the current combo meta.

I'm not sure if we should be looking at other splashes (black for yard hate and Shriekmaw, or green for...goyf?) or focusing on the mono colored deck that has put up all the results (and got that solid Flash Faerie in Lorwyn).

Bahamuth
10-01-2007, 03:23 AM
I'm quite new to Faerie Stompy, so perhaps my comments aren't that valuable, but I don't think splashing a colour is the way to go with this deck. I've been playing Eldariel's version of the deck with a single dual mainboard just to power Engineered Explosives, and I've seen many many games where I didn't have access to this second colour (and didn't need it either). The mana base has to be changed completely and you will be screwed if the right land gets Wastelanded.

HdH_Cthulhu
10-01-2007, 08:56 AM
I made a lorwyn FS list:

// Lands
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
9 [4E] Island (3)
1 [MR] Seat of the Synod

// Creatures
3 [FD] Trinket Mage
4 [LOR] Spellstutter Sprite
3 [LOR] Sower of Temptation
3 [LOR] Pestermite
4 [UL] Cloud of Faeries
4 [AN] Serendib Efreet

// Spells
3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
2 [MR] Thirst for Knowledge
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [TSP] Trickbind
SB: 1 [SC] Stifle
SB: 1 [LOR] Sower of Temptation
SB: 1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [DS] Trinisphere
SB: 4 [B] Winter Orb
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 [SOK] Pithing Needle

Sower of Temptation is realy good! Spellstutter Sprite surprise your opponent! It is an unexpected beater and counter! Pestermite is also realy vesertible!

I cut down all Sea drakes because i dont have one and i dont like them! Yes you could make some powerfull tricks with your citys and he is THE beater but his drawback is often annoying! For me it is importent to cast a creature and equipp it next turn, his drawback interuppts this strategy sometimes.

Argh im not good (in/at) english grammer^^

cheddercaveman
10-01-2007, 11:26 AM
Ok, I'll not debate your inclusion of Sower of Temptation or Pestermite. In the current environment I'm not sure if taping a permanent is better than pro-red but its ok. The counter faerie is not good in this deck though, and you need to have Sea Drake. This deck largely only exists BECAUSE of Sea Drake. I know they're expensive, but thats how the deck works. The rest of what you have looks mostly like traditional Faerie Stompy.

HdH_Cthulhu
10-01-2007, 11:54 AM
Ok, I'll not debate your inclusion of Sower of Temptation or Pestermite. In the current environment I'm not sure if taping a permanent is better than pro-red but its ok. The counter faerie is not good in this deck though, and you need to have Sea Drake. This deck largely only exists BECAUSE of Sea Drake. I know they're expensive, but thats how the deck works. The rest of what you have looks mostly like traditional Faerie Stompy.

Dont forget you could also untap a permanent, efreet and block or a land or wathever. Yes the counter- faerie is not so good whene you have chalcie on the bord but i like it...
But yeha you are right seadrake is better than the counterfaerie

zulander
10-01-2007, 12:23 PM
I like pestermite a lot, but currently I've had some success with the following version.

Mana: 21
9 Island
4 Chrome Mox
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb

Creatuers: 19
4 Sea Drake
4 Looter ill-Kor
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Trinket Mage
3 Juggernaut (I might think of pestermite here)

Control: 10
4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt

Utility: 10
4 SoFI
3 Jitte
3 Thirst for Knowledge

I don't know if I want to remove juggs because if I do then I'm only running 8 threats and I think with the faster decks become the faster FS has to become and it must adapt.

Jiaozy
10-03-2007, 02:48 PM
Ok, since I finally found some cheap Sea Drake I'd like to start playing the archetype because it's always been one of my favourite but without Sea Drake it wasn't exactly competitive :rolleyes:

Now, would anyone be so kind to explain how to SB and at which amount Chalice is usually played in the various MU?

I get that you put it out at 1 ASAP, but is it better to put out Chalice first then a threat or a threat then Chalice?

Given the list posted above by zulander (that I like a lot, altho Juggernaut might get replaced by Weatherseed Faerie because everyone and their brother is playing UGr ***** round here) how do you usually SB and what SB card do you usually have?

I was thinking something like:
2-3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Trickbind
2 Pithing Needle

Then what?
Winter Orb? What's this for and in which MUs it helps?
Propaganda? Against Ichorid and Goblins, right?
EE? Worth it without the splash?
Chill? Is it really that needed against Gobbos or is it more against random burn?

Thanks to everyone that'll be kind enough not to flame me and help me understand how the archetype works more in depth! :smile:

VsTheWorld
10-03-2007, 03:57 PM
If you have the choice, I would always play the Chalice at 1 and then the threat. That way your guy is protected from StP and Bolt, the two most important pieces of removal. Going in blind with no clue what you're facing, Chalice at 1 is always a safe bet. For thresh, set it at 1 first to shut off removal and and cantrips, then drop one at 2 ONLY if they don't already have Goyf in play. Otherwise you shut off your own Jitte and Cloud of Faeries, which can sometimes win it for you. Too many times have I topdecked a game-breaking Jitte with a Chalice played at 2.

As far as the sideboard, here's mine for a mono-blue list:
2 Pithing Needle (along with 1 MD): These just shut off so much random crap, you're almost never unhappy to see multiples unless you already have the Chalice down at 1.
3 Winter Orb: Absolutely crucial for the Landstill matchup. If this hits early game, you should hopefully be able to apply enough pressure before they recover.
2 Engineered Explosives: Not nearly as strong without the splash, but can blow up opposing needles stopping your Jitte/SoFI and wipe out a goblin horde following EtW. In a pinch, you can even blow up your own Chalice if you really need to drop a needle or something.
1 Tormod's Crypt (I play 1 MD too): Not nearly as strong as it used to be. It CAN be backbreaking vs Ichorid, but not always. As far as shrinking Goyf, I've actually seen it make Goyf bigger. Still, it's all-purpose graveyard hate, so it's nice to have one around.
The other 7 slots in my board are still being debated. Trickbind gives you additional outs vs Breakfast and Belcher in case you can't find a needle. It also stops a resolved Deed, which is big since the Landstill matchup is certainly not in your favor. I've honestly never tried Propaganda, but I can certainly see where it would help. If you're in an aggro/aggro-control heavy meta, Control Magic/Binding Grasp might be worth a few slots. Stealing opposing Goyfs is always fun.

I might add more to this later, but for now I have to get to class.

coma
10-16-2007, 10:22 AM
I have a question.
What the best main deck , in a red metagame ( much goblin with pirokynesis md) , is?
Normally I play 18 creatures : 4 drake 4 efreet 4 trinket 4 cloude f. , 2 sea sprite.
In what way can I change creatures with red protection cretures ?
Second question .
Can 3 control magic against goyf be enough?
Thanks

VsTheWorld
10-16-2007, 04:17 PM
Ok so here's a list from Italy that recently T8'd a 67 person tourney (check the Top 4 and Top 8 thread):

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
9 Island
4 Chrome Mox
1 Seat of Synod
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Sea Drake
4 Trinket Mage
2 Sea Sprite
4 Sword of fire/ice
4 Jitte
4 FoW
4 Chalice
3 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Pithing Needle

SB:
3 Misdirection
3 Back to Basics
2 Island (B2B tech??)
3 Powder Keg
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Control Magic
1 Engineered Explosives

While the maindeck looks relatively normal (although I'm not a fan of Sea Sprite, maybe Weatherseed Faeries or Pestermite in that slot), the SB certainly surprised me. B2B is even more of a beating against Landstill than Winter Orb, but is it worth dedicating 2 SB slots to Islands just to lessen its impact on yourself? I really think those slots should be 2 more Needles. Also, how does everyone feel about Powder Keg? It's not fetchable with Trinket Mage like EE, but is certainly more versatile, acting as Goyf and other creature removal, as well as being a way to deal with random annoying Ensnaring Bridges and the like. It seems like post-board this version wants to shift much more towards the control side of aggro-control, so maybe Keg is the right choice? I honestly don't know.

Phantom
10-16-2007, 05:27 PM
I wonder if he brought in the islands to help cast Control Magic too? Interesting board nonetheless. The kegs are interesting, but there are better (and quicker) cards to deal with Goyf, but perhaps not as versatile.

mikekelley
10-16-2007, 05:55 PM
I have a question.
What the best main deck , in a red metagame ( much goblin with pirokynesis md) , is?
Normally I play 18 creatures : 4 drake 4 efreet 4 trinket 4 cloude f. , 2 sea sprite.
In what way can I change creatures with red protection cretures ?
Second question .
Can 3 control magic against goyf be enough?
Thanks

Try Weatherseed Faeries instead of Sea Sprite.

Tacosnape
10-16-2007, 09:33 PM
Why is their no mass clamoring for Pestermite in this deck?

Pestermite is a godsend here. It works like a lesser Cloud of Faeries, untapping a Tomb/City. It can tap down an air blocker. It can flash down as a surprise blocker and untap a Drake or Serendib that's already swung and create a -second- surprise Blocker. It can stall a Tarmogoyf for a turn. I can't even imagine not piling 3-4 of these guys in the deck ASAP.

cianty
10-17-2007, 05:10 AM
I instantly kicked the 3 Weatherseed Faeries I used to run and added Pestermite instead. That's a pretty obvious thing I thought.

cheddercaveman
10-17-2007, 10:15 AM
I think that pestermite is a quality card. That being said, I think the Pestermite vs Weatherseed Faeries debate is one that is directly influenced by the amount of goblins (or potentially other red decks) that you see in your metagame. Right now, looking at the metagame of legacy as a whole, I'd say the higher likelihood is that there is not a lot of goblins being played, but a whole lot of tarmogoyf. Stalling goofy 1 turn seems like its probably enough most of the time. Also, having flash instantly makes this guy amazing because it makes threshold have to answer stuff on their turn and your turn.

Control Magic seems really good in the sideboard of this deck, especially since this is a mono-blue deck. Back to Basics seems like winter orb would have been a better choice and then you dont need to board in islands. Powder Keg is a good call though, too many people forget that its amazing and only look at engineered explosives (even for only 0), 1 EE is all this deck needs really since it doesnt get bigger than 1, but it IS tutorable. Powder Keg works the exact same at getting rid of Empty tokens. The deck needs more tormod's crypts though. Ichorid decks in legacy can be extremely fast.

cianty
10-17-2007, 03:45 PM
So that makes Pestermite the standard card for that slot and it is only replaced in the relevant meta game. That's how I see it.

coma
10-17-2007, 03:50 PM
@VsTheWorld: thanks for answer , I know that list because it’s mine. I’m Enrico Basso that player who ply this list.
I can explain my choices: someone good other less.
Btb is not the same of winter orb , because with its skill , opponent can’t play other spell and can’t cast removal (for creature , artefact and enchantment) if was casted in a right time. I win many match and capsize many mu with this card.

2 island is a my stupid idea , my fear to skill of btb , but now I play without those islands and I play without problems.

Power keg : in legacy main threads have cc 1 or 2 .For 1 we have e.e…but for two? Keg is good but too slowly.
I don’t now!

@Mikekelley: I’m agree with you on weathereed fearies

Thanks all for answers
Bye

Tacosnape
10-17-2007, 04:09 PM
I think that pestermite is a quality card. That being said, I think the Pestermite vs Weatherseed Faeries debate is one that is directly influenced by the amount of goblins (or potentially other red decks) that you see in your metagame.

Goblins moreso than the other red decks. Most other red decks would kill it via Lightning Bolt or Chain Lightning, which get stopped by Chalice-1.


Control Magic seems really good in the sideboard of this deck, especially since this is a mono-blue deck. Back to Basics seems like winter orb would have been a better choice and then you dont need to board in islands. Powder Keg is a good call though, too many people forget that its amazing and only look at engineered explosives (even for only 0), 1 EE is all this deck needs really since it doesnt get bigger than 1, but it IS tutorable. Powder Keg works the exact same at getting rid of Empty tokens. The deck needs more tormod's crypts though. Ichorid decks in legacy can be extremely fast.

Agreed with most of this. I ran four Tormod's Crypts in my board and wouldn't run less and I think in modern Legacy I'd maindeck one.

Control Magic runs into that endless problem of double blue being a pain in the ass, but it's necessary due to how insanely...insane it is against things like Tarmogoyf (Which you can just outrace, if you've got a flier and a Jitte, but still.)

Eldariel
10-22-2007, 07:57 AM
Alright, here's the list I've been playing post-Lorwyn:

//NAME: Faerie Stompy
4 City of Traitors
1 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Tomb
5 Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Shoreline Ranger
4 Serendib Efreet
3 Trinket Mage
4 Sea Drake
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Force of Will
4 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Cursed Scroll
3 Pestermite
3 Mulldrifter

// Sideboard:
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Winter Orb
SB: 3 Misdirection
SB: 2 Control Magic
SB: 3 Powder Keg


It's working like a charm. 14 blue sources seems to hit just the sweet spot; out of 20 tests, I mulliganed once due to the lack of colours. Mulldrifter is a huge step up from all the draw-spells, since it comes with a body. Not an impressive one, but a flyer anyways, so it's effectively a 3-for-1 if hardcast, or can be used to dig at 3 mana if you need more cards. Flash is the main attraction with Pestermite, along with the Tap-ability. He just does a lot. I play 4 Jittes right now for curve-reasons and to combat the fast aggro strategies. Due to control's increasing popularity, a Cursed Scroll found its way to the maindeck, and so far I've beaten Wombat and Landstill with it (well, ok, with it and the SB Winter Orbs).

Powder Keg I'm liking somewhat, although I'm not sure if 3 are warranted. I'll admit that I'm not seeing as much graveyard-use as I expect to so my Crypts are staying right where they are. I suppose 3-4 would be warranted if Breakfast and Ichorid had a heavy presence though.


All in all though, this build has been working like a well-oiled machine for me, having 22 creatures is really, really nice. Volcanic Island is so-so; it's not necessary often, but when you DO get the chance to blow up Goyfs/Survivals/whatever with it, you'll forget all the times it just got wastelanded.

VsTheWorld
10-22-2007, 10:13 AM
I'll admit I was a bit skeptical of that list when I saw it on magic league yesterday. At first Mulldrifter seemed kinda weak to me, but after some testing I've realized it solves my major problem of the creature:non-creature spell ratio. Having 22 creatures really is REALLY REALLY nice. My lists always topped off at 19 or 20 in the past because I always needed a slot for TfK or Psionic Blast (which hasn't been of much use to me). While Mulldrifter is inefficiently costed as a creature and as a draw spell, being able to combine the 2 functionalities into one deck slot is great. My only change to that list would be to find a place for one MD Pithing Needle. Cursed Scroll hasn't been relevant in testing for me yet, but I'll do Landstill matches tonight and see how it goes. I always hate topdecking a Trinket Mage vs Still and having to tutor up a useless Chalice or Mox.

Edit: I just realized in a match vs Ichorid on MWS that evoking a Mulldrifter is bridge removal. Add that to the reasons why Mulldrifter is awesome.

coma
10-26-2007, 06:44 AM
@Tacosnape: pestermite is a good card...at least to test.I don't underestimate weatherseed fearies , because goblin play pirokinesis (like removal) , red ******** play fire/ice , and the other red deck play some fire to cc2,...so our cotv to 1 is good , but it isn't insuperable.
About control magic: I agree to jitte is a solution agaist tarmo...we play 3x or 4x jitte ...and if don't we top deck it?
some one prefer to binding grasp or thread of dislayolty ...but we need something.
One of this control kind make 2 for 1 resolve 2 tarmo ...we think that.
Bye

chokin
10-26-2007, 05:41 PM
I dont know if I like Thirst or Mulldrifter better. Thirst is an instant and provides one other card to choose from, but Mull can be a body or remove Bridge.

I'm running
4 Sea Drake
4 Efreet
4 Trinket Mage
4 Cloud of Faeires
as a core of creatures

My last 3-4 creature slots could be Pestermite(Kinda like CoF!), Juggernaut(more threats...too easy to kill?), or Mulldrifter alongside Thirst?

Explain?

xycsoscyx
10-26-2007, 06:51 PM
I was trying out Mulldrifter recently and I do actually like it, primarily because this deck rarely casts anything on an opponents turn anyways (Thirst being an instant doesn't really matter much, it's the fact that it digs three and only has a single color requirement that makes it good in the deck). Mulldrifter fills almost the same requirement (only two cards is still good since you don't have to discard), but also adds the possibility of an extra flyer. The fact that you don't have to discard anything can potentially help out (when you just get three cards that you need, but no Artifact to discard to at least keep two of).

Eldariel
10-26-2007, 07:05 PM
chokin: Simple - fear red? Play Weatherseed Faeries. Want awesome utility? Play Pestermite (don't underestimate the openendedness of the ability). Want raw power at the expense of consistency? Play Juggernaut (man, if it costed U3, I'd be all over the card).

I like Pestermite. So far, I've, among other things:
-Tapped manlands after activation, stealing 2 mana with one card.
-Broken Standstill EoT, forcing opponent into discard-mode just getting basically one card off the Standstill, and further making way for Winter Orb on my turn.
-Tapped Isochron Scepter with StP on it on my opponent's turn, forcing it to use it before my combat allowing me to connect with SoFI (and win the game).
-Untapped Sea Drake with equipment midcombat to win a close race.
-Untapped my land to go Pestermite-Chalice of the Void, and Pestermite-equip.
-Untapped my 2-mana land under Back to Basics.
-Tapped opponent's equipped guy in the beginning of combat, preventing him from accumulating Jitte-counters.
-Tapping a careless Breakfast-player's Ghoul (careless in that, he went off with no protection and only one Narco left in the deck) decking him.
-Removed a blocker for lethal.
-Tapped land to keep opponent off sweeper-mana for the win.

And countless of other things. Don't underestimate the power of versatility. Those are just things I've actually done in games by now when testing it.


And Mulldrifter should be played. It addresses the one fundamental problem the deck has; need to fit too many roles into too few cardslots. It's a lot worse than Thirst as draw (instantness matters unlike many people would have you believe, and looking 3 cards generally means you get effective 3 new cards instead of 2), but the fact that it can either draw 2 or be cast as a 'draw 2+equippable body' fixes the deck's low creature count which has normally been a problem as far as equippables are concerned. 22 is a good number and Mulldrifter gets you easily up there without sacrificing anything.

coma
11-02-2007, 02:19 PM
@Eldariel: sorry but I don't understand because you play(in post-lowin list) with only three trinket.
I don't like mulldrifter:
+ is a drawer and also a creature
+ you don't have to discard a card (but if you streamline your play , you evermore have an artifact to discard)
- Like creature is a 2/2 with cc u4
- like drawer is sorcery , and I see only 2 cards instead of 3

I think that is a card make 2 skill , but all 2 not in perfect way.
bye

chokin
11-16-2007, 04:19 PM
I'm currently running:

1-0 Seat of the Synod
8 Island
4 Chrome Mox
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb

4 Sea Drake
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Trinket Mage
3-4 Weatherseed Faeries/Perstermite

4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives

Utility: 10
4 SoFI
3 Jitte
3 Thirst for Knowledge/Mulldrifter

Not sure if I'm sold on Drifter. 2 Cards for 2U, but Thirst digs a little deeper, gets rid of extra artifacts. Card advantage is fine and dandy, but I like having a choice of getting rid of dead cards too.

And Pestermite is very good, but my meta needs Weatherseed.

Eldariel
11-18-2007, 01:14 PM
Well, I took Faerie Stompy into Finnish Legacy Champs and finished 4-2, placing 12th. You can read the report here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7657).

Here's the list I played:

Lands
4 [EX] City of Traitors
1 [MR] Seat of the Synod
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
5 [UNH] Island
1 [u] Tundra
1 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [ON] Polluted Delta

Creatures
1 [SC] Shoreline Ranger
4 [AN] Serendib Efreet
3 [FD] Trinket Mage
4 [P2] Sea Drake
4 [UL] Cloud of Faeries
2 [LRW] Pestermite
3 [LRW] Mulldrifter

Spells
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [u] Psionic Blast


Sideboard
3 [4E] Control Magic
2 [SOK] Pithing Needle
3 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
3 [A] Winter Orb
3 [MM] Misdirection
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte


As you can probably figure out from the report, I was kicking myself in multiple sensitive parts of my body for not MDing Needle. So from now on I'm MDing Needle. Always. Also, the only reason I'm SBing the extra Jitte and Crypt is because I didn't happen to have any extra EEs or Kegs handy. Soo, there.

b4r0n
11-18-2007, 07:35 PM
So your current maindeck is MD: -1 EE, +1 Needle, SB: -1 Jitte, -1 Crypt, +2 EE?

You mentioned in your report that people have been considering cutting Cloud of Faeries for Looter il-Kor. Have you tried that yet? Also, as for Force being clunky, have you tried Trinisphere in its place? From the limited testing I've done with Trini, it seems strong.

Also, I really like the maindeck dual. That's a great idea.

Eldariel
11-19-2007, 07:55 AM
So your current maindeck is MD: -1 EE, +1 Needle, SB: -1 Jitte, -1 Crypt, +2 EE?

You mentioned in your report that people have been considering cutting Cloud of Faeries for Looter il-Kor. Have you tried that yet? Also, as for Force being clunky, have you tried Trinisphere in its place? From the limited testing I've done with Trini, it seems strong.

Haven't tried either of those, although I'm sceptical about Trinisphere since the harder match-ups tend to have a much higher curve already to start with so Trini just doesn't feel like it'd help an awful lot. Chalice at least takes out cards for good unlike Trini, which just delays them. Plus, Trini makes many chains the deck is capable of much harder to pull off as they'd cost so much more mana.

On the other hand, Looter feels very potent as it does the cycling-thing if I'm stuck at 2, it has shadow and it allows card selection in addition to the raw draw. Also, a rather radical idea I've been playing around with is dropping MD Chalices down to 1 copy and playing few more trinkets to fetch in those slots along with the 4th Mage. Maybe even a Dreadnought along with Stifles/Trickbinds, either way it feels like there could be a lot to look for there. Don't get me wrong, Chalices are great, but the metagame seems to be moving into a direction where they aren't optimal in the MD anymore, at least if the Finnish Champs are any indicator of what's going on.


The tournament reminded me that the deck is fully capable of winning games just through fat beats. It might be worth exploring.

coma
11-19-2007, 08:57 AM
Congratulation to Eldariel to placing , because you play , unless last two match , only in unfavourable mu. You are unluky.
bye

Media314r8
11-19-2007, 10:13 AM
Here's the List I've been playing: (24 Blue spells)

Spells (16)
4 x Force of Will
4 x Chalice of the Void
1 x Pithing Needle
4 x Sword of Fire and Ice
3 x Umezawa's Jitte

Guys (22/23)
4 x Trinket Mage
4 x Serendib Efreet
4 x Cloud of Faeries
3 x Looter il-Kor
3 x Phyrexian Warbeast
4 x Sea Drake
(1 x Shoreline Ranger)

Lands (21/22)
(1 x Shoreline Ranger)
4 x Chrome Mox
4 x City of Traitors
4 x Ancient Tomb
2 x Crystal Vein
6 x Island
1 x Seat of the Synod

SB
3x Propaganda
3x Arcane Lab
3x Powder Keg
1x EE
1x Crypt
4x Leyline

~From my tournaments and playtesting, Warbeast was a godsend... until they printed goyf. The 3/4 body didnt die to bolts, and he killed most anything in his path, dying only later game to bring with him an uneeded tomb. (usually) I felt safe equipping him and I was often happier to see him than to see efreet, as warbeast would often serve the same role and damaged me less or not at all. I did suffer from having only 24 blue spells however, and after goyf came to town and my beast started sitting on the sidelines, I decided that it was time to rework the deck with a few more blue sources and some evasion. (sidenote: warbeast >>>> Juggernaught if you insist on playing a ground pounding art creature. Turn two equips on your fatt-butt guy are much better than PLAYING your 3 toughness suicidal maniac on turn two only to have him run head first into something with three power turn three) I really have fallen in love with looter in this deck, as he does more than brainstorm and often gets in there for 4-6 damage. Excellent Jitte/SoFI wearer and card filterer. My only qualm is games where I locked an opponent's hand with chalice at 1 and 2, but simultaniously shut down my own jittes, faeries, and looters. (having 10 cards shut down really hurt. and I would auto-include looter if he cycled like faeries) Crystal Quarry really helped in ensuring an aggresive start with 3/4 power flyers, and often made my first turn 'island, go' into a second turn sea drake without losing too much tempo. Also helpful for playing around daze with equips and landing them on my guys without taking a million from tomb.

And the list I want to start testing: (27 Blue spells)

Spells (16)
4 x Chalice of the Void
4 x Force of Will
1 x Phyrexian Furnace
1 x Pithing Needle
3 x Sword of Fire and Ice
3 x Umezawa's Jitte

Guys (22/23)
4 x Sea Drake
4 x Serendib Efreet
4 x Trinket Mage
4 x Cloud of Faeries
2 x Mulldrifter
4 x Pestermite
(1 x Shoreline Ranger)

Lands (21/22)
4 x Chrome Mox
4 x Ancient Tomb
4 x City of Traitors
(1 x Shoreline Ranger)
1 x Seat of the Synod
8 x Island

SB
2 x Pithing Needle
3 x Misdirection
3 x Powder Keg
3 x Sword of Light and Shadow
4 x Weatherseed Faeries

As much as I loved playing turn one looter of a mox and having my choice of cards for the duration of the game (as well as having an evasive equip wearer), I decided to cut looter for my new list as too often I chaliced dead looters into my grip. My experiences goldfishing with mulldrifter make me yearn to put looter back in the deck, but others have played him with moderate sucess, and seeing him late game (which you dont experience goldfishing) may just be what the deck needs to recover from a stalled board. Hardcasting him instead of shorline ranger seems much better, and believe it or not, in my previous versions of FS (one which ran two rangers) I have resolved and won with rangers, so 4U for a evasion card-advantage machine may be fine in real life while looking terrible on paper. (like a reverse diamond mox) Drifter also seems ideal as he will most likely never be deeded off the board. (without a landstill player tapping out two turns in a row to kill a 2/2 flyer) I love the crap out of pestermite, as the ability to untap and block with a tapped Drake/Efreet weraing Jitte/SoFI is the nuts' nuts. Tapping goyfs to gain tempo is a fine too. I dream of a game where I go turn one tomb mox drake, turn two swing, during your attack phase, pestermite untap tomb, pestermite untap drake, block, next turn (three) seing in for eight. (while taking six myself... but this IS FS) I really have liked furnace in the main, and I see a fetch-able cantrip via mage great even if it doesn't help against decks like thresh, tog, and iggy.

Powder Keg and Needle have been golden in the SB, allowing me to kill (goys/survivals/mongeese/ect) without splashing for a second color. Needle shuts down deed, top, survival, and many other random annoyances like maze of ith. I've really wanted to try out SoLS in the board against pikula and other deck that run swords/smother. The recursion of cloud or ranger (or just dead drakes) also seems like it could help, and the 3 lifegain helps alot vs burn decks or other random aggro decks taht FS has a hard time racing. As much as propaganda stalled goblins, they still would usually win in the long game with SGC, incinerator, and fanatic (if aplicable) killing my dides in response to equips, and thus faeries should help me kill them and land jitte on a guy instead of just being a reactive card. weatherseed should also help immensly in the red thresh matchup.

Thoughts? (I realize both my builds are slightly unconventional, but classic FS just had too many mulligans, and I believe an increased land, creature count, and possibly the addition of a looter can help with that)

Media314r8
11-19-2007, 10:30 AM
Also, a rather radical idea I've been playing around with is dropping MD Chalices down to 1 copy and playing few more trinkets to fetch in those slots along with the 4th Mage. Maybe even a Dreadnought along with Stifles/Trickbinds, either way it feels like there could be a lot to look for there. Don't get me wrong, Chalices are great, but the metagame seems to be moving into a direction where they aren't optimal in the MD anymore, at least if the Finnish Champs are any indicator of what's going on.


The tournament reminded me that the deck is fully capable of winning games just through fat beats. It might be worth exploring.

If you are looking for an aggro-control deck that wins 'with fat beats', you want to play UG (whatever splash or not) Thresh. Doesnt get much fatter than goyf, and they pack more control than a FS deck with 1 chalice MB. There are three reasons FS was built:
1. Sea Drake/Efreet (+chrome mox + AT/CoT)
2. Force of Will
3. Chalice + a deck with a curve that starts around 2-3 (and that often plays 2/3 drops turn one)

Many games FS wins involves turn one or two chalice for 1/2 possibly with daze protection or just a FoW/blue spell in hand. This utterly cripples many decks, both aggro, aggro-control, and combo. Going turn one chalice for zero, chalice for one against a (combo) deck you see lay a city of brass or a Xantid swarm and having them scoop em up is why FS is soo good. Aggro decks (save for possibly goblins) dont beat combo pre (and possibly have difficulties post)-board. FS is superior as it works as an aggro-control deck, yet abuses huge amounts of mana, a high curve, and chalice to win against other aggro-control deck, while still maintaining the positive aggro and combo matchups.

FS, on the downside, is a very mulligan-dependant deck (or inconsistant, as nay-sayers would nay-say), and it takes a lot of experience/playskill to know what hand/cards to pitch/keep against what decks to properly pilot FS. (you cn also just have no luck with the deck and mull to five every game)

Eldariel
11-19-2007, 11:31 AM
If you are looking for an aggro-control deck that wins 'with fat beats', you want to play UG (whatever splash or not) Thresh. Doesnt get much fatter than goyf, and they pack more control than a FS deck with 1 chalice MB. There are three reasons FS was built:
1. Sea Drake/Efreet (+chrome mox + AT/CoT)
2. Force of Will
3. Chalice + a deck with a curve that starts around 2-3 (and that often plays 2/3 drops turn one)

Many games FS wins involves turn one or two chalice for 1/2 possibly with daze protection or just a FoW/blue spell in hand. This utterly cripples many decks, both aggro, aggro-control, and combo. Going turn one chalice for zero, chalice for one against a (combo) deck you see lay a city of brass or a Xantid swarm and having them scoop em up is why FS is soo good. Aggro decks (save for possibly goblins) dont beat combo pre (and possibly have difficulties post)-board. FS is superior as it works as an aggro-control deck, yet abuses huge amounts of mana, a high curve, and chalice to win against other aggro-control deck, while still maintaining the positive aggro and combo matchups.

You really don't need to explain me why Faerie Stompy was built. Actually, those are not the reasons it was built (I might get down to them one day, but not right now), those are the main reasons to play it. What I'm saying is that if there're so many midrange decks around like in the Finnish Champs, Chalice isn't as amazing as normally. Against combo, having 4 Trinkets and 1 Chalice along with Force is often enough to win the game preboard, and postboard, you'd still get to bring in the remaining Chalices. Against Threshish lowcurve decks, you'd still have that one Chalice to present as a game ending threat. Against midrange decks, you really would rather play a Pithing Needle on Pernicious Deed and not get wrecked (in multiples in case they have Engineered Explosives, Vindicate et al to free their Deeds), and Sensei's Divining Top to dig for more business, and maybe Cursed Scroll for the finish.

Of course you want Chalices on the play against just about everything, but there're just some MUs where other cards might get the job done better and those seem to be getting more and more common as lowcurve decks are on the top, making their natural predator, the midrange decks the Next Big Thing™. You forgot one important thing from the list of 'reasons to play FS', btw. All your guys fly save for Trinket and being able to fly through with an equipped guy is game most of the time. Even when it isn't, it's a way to get damage through when fighting against decks with creatures.


FS, on the downside, is a very mulligan-dependant deck (or inconsistant, as nay-sayers would nay-say), and it takes a lot of experience/playskill to know what hand/cards to pitch/keep against what decks to properly pilot FS. (you cn also just have no luck with the deck and mull to five every game)

True. One of the reasons for cutting on the artifacts would be adding more creatures to make the deck more resilient to mulligans.

Media314r8
11-19-2007, 11:52 AM
Against Threshish lowcurve decks, you'd still have that one Chalice to present as a game ending threat.

How does a reactive card that ~would~ counter more copies of threats already on the board (read: goyf) provide a 'game ending threat?' Seems like the goyf that is chillin' on the board would be the 'game ending threat' that chlice wasnt around to counter. Perhaps the bolt they resolved on your 'game ending threat' sea drake in response to an equip would have been prevented, along with all of their cantips that allowed them to find/grow goyf, had you dropped chalice for 1 earlier. (Having it it in hand as opposed to ~hoping~ to see and resolve a trinket mage to resolve a chalice as a 'game-ending threat.')

I just don't see a non-creature artifact that lands turn 4+ and watches the turn two goyf stroll by as a threat. Chalice is a reactive card, but only if played early, that's why most every deck able to run out a chalice for 1 on turn one does so (and not lose to its own chalice for one that is)

mikekelley
11-19-2007, 12:42 PM
You really don't need to explain me why Faerie Stompy was built.

lololol


What I'm saying is that if there're so many midrange decks around like in the Finnish Champs, Chalice isn't as amazing as normally. Against combo, having 4 Trinkets and 1 Chalice along with Force is often enough to win the game preboard, and postboard, you'd still get to bring in the remaining Chalices. Against Threshish lowcurve decks, you'd still have that one Chalice to present as a game ending threat. Against midrange decks, you really would rather play a Pithing Needle on Pernicious Deed and not get wrecked (in multiples in case they have Engineered Explosives, Vindicate et al to free their Deeds), and Sensei's Divining Top to dig for more business, and maybe Cursed Scroll for the finish.
I said this exact same thing about a month ago and got scoffed at. It opens up a few slots for whatever utility/draw/beats you may want to throw in, and will improve the consistency a good deal. Plus, you can STILL fetch Chalice if you need it, and you can drop Needle and not have to worry about already having a chalice at 1 blind on the play, which is just shooting yourself in the foot against a lot of decks in the meta, e.g. survival, lands, etc.

Eldariel
11-19-2007, 01:05 PM
How does a reactive card that ~would~ counter more copies of threats already on the board (read: goyf) provide a 'game ending threat?' Seems like the goyf that is chillin' on the board would be the 'game ending threat' that chlice wasnt around to counter. Perhaps the bolt they resolved on your 'game ending threat' sea drake in response to an equip would have been prevented, along with all of their cantips that allowed them to find/grow goyf, had you dropped chalice for 1 earlier. (Having it it in hand as opposed to ~hoping~ to see and resolve a trinket mage to resolve a chalice as a 'game-ending threat.')

I just don't see a non-creature artifact that lands turn 4+ and watches the turn two goyf stroll by as a threat. Chalice is a reactive card, but only if played early, that's why most every deck able to run out a chalice for 1 on turn one does so (and not lose to its own chalice for one that is)

Sticking at one means that their removal and card filtering is dead so whatever you'll play will stick. They play card filtering and removal even after resolving their first Goyf, so it's still a powerful threat provided that you aren't totally outgunned.

Media314r8
11-20-2007, 06:01 PM
so how you are defining 'threat' is a card that ensures that when you are winning, you keep winning (and if you have an aweful board position and are facing down three large dudes, it is the goggles)... hmmm. So goyf ~wouldnt~ be a threat, but your chalice for 1 WOULD be?

Phantom
11-20-2007, 07:17 PM
I'm not sure where the confusion is here. I thought El said it perfectly when he said "They play card filtering and removal even after resolving their first Goyf, so it's still a powerful threat provided that you aren't totally outgunned" and then you bring up a situation where you are facing three fatties. Isn't that being totally outgunned? Anyway, i think you're saying basically the same thing, and if you aren't let me chime in with my thoughts since I think I've tested this matchup as much or more as anyone else:

Chalice @1 is huge anytime. Sure, the earlier the better, but I've won a ton of games behind a Chalice off of a Trinket (even when my current board position was poor). Also, you brought up a "non-creature artifact that lands turn 4+". This deck isn't going island, island, island + Trinket, turn 4 Chalice. We are capable of landing a Trinket fetched Chalice as early as turn two while completely playing around Daze (on the play).

That being said, I really like your revised build Media. Furnace is a good idea mainboard over Crypt (I think at least, but blind Chalices could screw you).

@ The Godfather: The idea of dropping down to one Chalice is interesting but scary. I think maybe you just got some bad matchups. Looking at that T8 you posted, I know I would have wanted all 4 Chalices in there. I'd almost go so far as to say if you're in a meta where you want only one Chalice main, go with another deck, but I haven't really done enough testing to say that for sure. I just know the decks that I board Chalice out against, I usually do poorly.

Eldariel
11-20-2007, 08:19 PM
so how you are defining 'threat' is a card that ensures that when you are winning, you keep winning (and if you have an aweful board position and are facing down three large dudes, it is the goggles)... hmmm. So goyf ~wouldnt~ be a threat, but your chalice for 1 WOULD be?

If you have board parity, you aren't winning. In board parity, you play Chalice. Threshold just lost. Sure, Chalice doesn't kill those Goyfs rampaging at you, but if you've got Goyfs rampaging at you, maybe you should be fetching Engineered Explosives instead?

Anyway, we agree on most points, but I think the deck hull packs enough power that it's worth exploring if the deck could maintain positive match-ups without the 4 Chalices in G1. That would make the deck far less reliant on the die roll as you'd avoid those sitiuations where you're on the draw and can't keep hands because your Chalices might crap on you and the hand has little else. My idea here is to minimize the amount of mulliganing necessary, and to do that, I'm trying to increase the creature count, the amount of draw-effects in the deck, the landcount and attempting to decrease the impact of going second.

I'd never go with less than 22 mana sources, and the deck hummed beautifully manawise in the Finnish champs. I didn't have to mulligan due to mana practically at all which allowed me to mulligan for business instead. Shoreline Ranger won me 2 games out of the 13 I played, which is pretty awesome for a 1-of that isn't really meant to be cast.


I'm not really sure I like MD Furnace because it tramples on the toes of the plan of casting a blind Chalice at 1 on the play and just winning against most of the format. That's one of the big reasons I'm considering cutting on the Chalices; that way you won't be casting blind Chalices and thus have the ability to be playing more 1-mana artifacts instead.

Phantom: Maybe, but I don't really see Faerie Stompy as a metagame deck of any kind; it has the tools it needs to beat basically anything as long as one has the right cards for the job. For example, if I had had that MD Pithing Needle, I would've been in a superb position against those Deed-decks and if I had SB Back to Basics, I would've won both of my losses simply because both of those decks woulda scooped it up to B2B, especially protected ones.

I think Faerie Stompy has so much more going on for it than just the turn 1 Chalices, that it could be worth exploring if it could be calibrated for a more consistent plan against a metagame with wider curve with the Chalices resting safely on the SB, ready for G2 and 3 trashing against decks where you want it.

coma
11-22-2007, 06:17 AM
I have a doubt.
Md , against treshgoyf , do you think deck need a solution like splash for e.e. or control magic ?
If ***** cast goyf in second turn , and slow down us with counter by third turn , we are in difficult on race.
thanks for answer

Eldariel
11-27-2007, 06:25 PM
I just played this deck in a Magic-League Trial. Now, I normally wouldn't write about any games I play online, but I played a different build that indeed shows some promise. I'm a man of my word and I played with only a single Chalice maindeck. It didn't slow me down at all, really. For reference, here's the list I used:

// Lands
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
5 [UNH] Island
1 [U] Tundra
2 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [ON] Polluted Delta

// Creatures
1 [SC] Shoreline Ranger
4 [AN] Serendib Efreet
4 [FD] Trinket Mage
4 [P2] Sea Drake
2 [LRW] Pestermite
4 [LRW] Mulldrifter
4 [TSP] Looter il-Kor

// Spells
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
3 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
1 [MR] Chalice of the Void
1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [U] Psionic Blast
1 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 [4E] Control Magic
SB: 2 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [US] Back to Basics
SB: 3 [MM] Misdirection


The jury is still out on Looter vs. Cloud of Faeries, but Shadow did win me a game. I'm also thinking I'd want more Sensei's Divining Tops here since they salvage 1-landers better than just about anything and can be cast with colourless mana. Might also want a second Needle, the card is very powerful here. Anyway, here's how I did:

Round 1, Grb Survival Advantage
-G1 he's got nothing relevant, casts Thoughtseize 3 times ripping my hand mostly to shreds, but he can't respond to my topdecked Serendib + the Looter and Sea Drake that slipped under his discard, so I bring it home fast.
-G2 I open real fast and just win; he doesn't have anything besides Chainer's Edict to get with Burning Wish and when he tries to take out my SoFI on Serendib with Indrik, I Force sealing the deal.

Didn't wish for a Chalice at any point.

Round 2, Grb Survival Advantage
-G1 I get turn 2 Mulldrifter>turn 3 Mulldrifter and notice that it is indeed ridiculous. I have too much gas and while I didn't find any Trinkets, I find my lone Needle which takes out his turn 2 Survival, eventually finding a Trinket>EE for his Goyf, killing Survival in the process, then I resolve some equipment and a Pestermite and win.
-G2 is almost exactly the same as the G2 of the last match, he Burning Wishes for Edict, but it's too slow and my flyers and shadow cruise over an assortment of landbound critters for the win.

Neither here, I was perfectly happy not drawing my Chalices

Round 3, BW Pox
-G1 I have a Mox, 2-land hand (Island and City) and play a turn 1 Looter. Turns out it was a good choice as he Sinkholes and since I have a City of Traitors in hand, I don't need to waste my Force on it. I drop another (Serendib, I think), force a Smallpox, play another guy, get Sea Drake Vindicated, he has Ghostly Prison at 14 and Wastes my City and plays Crucible, I get a second Mox out along with a Needle on Waste, an eventual City of Traitors and start beating, he gets a Tombstalker at 2 life and my Looter cruises in FTW.
-G2 he Thoughtseizes me, I Misdirect and he discards a Vindicate out of a hand of only black mana (including 2 Wastes, Urborg and Tabernacle), Pox and Smallpox. I Needle his Waste (my only blue source is a Tundra) and play a guy, he plays Smallpox and Sensei's Divining Top, I drop Back to Basics and draw into Islands soon enough, eventually finding a Sea Drake, Serendib and Trinket, Needling his Top. He's working off 1 swamp (his deck contains 3 and his opening hand none) and the top of his deck while my Sea Drake resets my Tomb and Tundra. He drops a Tombstalker at 8 and reaches 8 to discard Nether Spirit, I find a SoFI and cruise through his Stalker with Efreet and Drake (he can kill Drake, but SoFI would trigger killing his Stalker and he'd be at 3 against a Serendib with no mana left). I win.

Again, I didn't wish for Chalice and sided it out since while it's ok at 2, there're too many threats outside it for it to be worth it, and my Needles and Tops are just better.

Round 4, 4c Landstill
-G1 starts with me Forcing through a Mulldrifter on turn 3 followed by Sea Drake and Top. He Intuitions for Loam/Waste/Academy Ruins and Nevinyrral's Disks, I can't find Trinket or Drake so Disk clears it up, but he's at 9 and drops a Standstill. I drop Efreet into his Standstill (he's tapped out from Life, blowing up Disk and playing Standstill) and it resolves, he recovers Disk but doesn't have mana to cast it yet. I also find a Chalice to drop at 2, forcing his Counterspell and swing him to 6 and find a Psi Blast with the Top and fetches, along with Sea Drake. He plays Disk, I swing him to 3 and Psi Blast off the top FTW.
-G2 I open with Mox-City-guy into Force. He drops Standstill, and I find Back to Basic and 3 Force of Wills total (evoking a Mulldrifter in the process), resolve a Sea Drake, let him Intuition for Life/Waste/Ruins again, but Force his Life (since I can't let him blow up my City), Force his Force and Back to Basics FTW on the next turn. I needed to make him tap low so he can't come back.

The Chalice served a purpose G1 but ultimately it wasn't necessary.

Round 5, Dragon Stompy
-G1 I have a 1-lander, mull into 1-lander, mull into 1-lander and finally mull into 1-lander (or 1-mana really; of course I count Moxes and Shorelines as mana). I keep 4 hoping to topdeck lands way down the line. I'm on the play, he drops a turn 1 Trini. I lose.
-G2 is a copy of G1, I mull into 4 still having 1-lander (this time it's a City of Traitors though so I could have mana), he drops Trini, then Magus of the Moon and Rakdos Pit Dragon and I lose.

We played 2 more games after that, this time we both had mana and I won easily; he has 8 dead cards against me and Force is a huge bomb, while I only run 1 dead card and my creatures are bigger on average, and have evasion. Control Magic didn't hurt either. He had a bit weaker hands though, but I'm confident I would've won against his stronger hands as well since he has so much dead stuff and he already spends 26 cards on mana.


So yea, that's what it's like playing on MWS, but one thing's for sure, I wouldn't have wanted Chalices in any of those MUs and won them all perfectly fine without it. Sensei's Divining Top is very potent in this deck and I like the freedom of being able to play Needle if I want to while still having all 4 Chalices in my backpocket for MUs where they rock. I never once was sorry to have 23 creatures, nor 4 Mulldrifters - if you read those reports, I was never hurting for creatures and chaining Mulldrifters just plain won a game. I also evoked them FTW in one MU where I was digging for B2B (which is a new 'must' SB-card for me - it would've won me a match in the Finnish champs where Winter Orb failed me AND it's blue. Also, it has synergy with Sea Drake, Pestermite and Cloud (which I'm not currently running, didn't reach conclusions on that yet though as Looter was a big tough to cast most of the time) and it actually KILLS decks instead of just slowing them down like WOrb). Note that I beat two Survivals, Pox and 4c Landstill, all of which could be considered somewhat difficult MUs, so these changes definitely don't hurt.

http://www.magic-league.com/deck/38464/legacy_t15.html#Death%20&%20Taxes58249 has meta breakdown as well as lists from the winning lists (Death and Taxes took it with Dragon Stompy taking second and Ichorid being the other semifinalist).

Jak
11-27-2007, 06:47 PM
I like the idea of cutting Chalices. Have you thought about Daze at all? This is asked becasue the combo MU seems to go down a lot.

Eldariel
11-27-2007, 07:00 PM
I cannot see the card being more powerful than anything else presently in the deck. It's crossed my mind every now and then. But I don't think the combo MU is anything to worry about. With 5 Chalices, you'll still have a decent chance of finding one and you still have Force and one of the fastest non-combo clocks in the format. Further, you still sideboard in 3 more Chalices for a full set and the traditional combo-MU has been ridiculously good so you can easily win two straight even if you fail G1. As an added bonus, you have both, EE and Needle in the MD so you can handle a multitude of win conditions better than ever.

All in all, I wouldn't worry about combo. You're still heavy favourite and you'll have a ton of card advantage to find what you need if you get even little time. And in all other MUs, you added card advantage and threat density more than makes up for the lack of extra Chalices. And you'll still have post-SB tools again.

The Marco
11-28-2007, 01:34 AM
With the cutting of 3 main deck Chalice, maybee we could start looking at playing 1cc spells (ex:Brainstorm) or even better with the white splash for EE maybee play STP...if we bring in the Chalices we just side out the STP. Just playing with a little more fetches (total of 4 or 5), one more tundra and the white land artifact we should be alright to make a single white fairly consistently...plus I heard fetches are good with top!!!
Eldariel I really like your new list, I've always felt that the COF were underwhelming, I'm not sold on the looter either but they have better synergy with the top...would playing more tops be better??? If we splash for white (more) playing more EE would be better right?? I'm thinking that we could replace the looter and the blasts with 4-Stp, one more top and one more EE main or just more land (shoreline ranger). It would not slow the deck significantly and give you a much better game in tricky matchups...plus we couls potentially remove Binding grasp (control magic) from the side to replace with more business...say disenchant...just an example. I was never in favor of the splash with the previous lists but I feel this one could really utilize EE and Stp and more fetches with the top are no doubt good! Lets face it we don't see wasteland as often as before and if they blow up our tundra they leave our Tomb...it forces them to play better and make critical decisions while we beat faces like there is no tommorow!

Just my 2 cents!

Tao
11-28-2007, 02:01 AM
I love your recent build. It looks focussed and just good.

But what is the reason for B2B over Winter Orb? You will probably untap more under an Orb than under B2B and for your opponent it won't make a big difference. Landtsitll will be annyoyed by both cards (depending on the version one will be worse for them than the other) and there are few decks in the meta that cn be completely shut down by it.

Also, against Wombat or Rifter B2B can't be boarded when you want a good card in that slot.

Eldariel
11-28-2007, 06:30 AM
I love your recent build. It looks focussed and just good.

But what is the reason for B2B over Winter Orb? You will probably untap more under an Orb than under B2B and for your opponent it won't make a big difference. Landtsitll will be annyoyed by both cards (depending on the version one will be worse for them than the other) and there are few decks in the meta that cn be completely shut down by it.

Also, against Wombat or Rifter B2B can't be boarded when you want a good card in that slot.

I was playing Winter Orb for a long time. Then I played against Loam-A-Tog in the Finnish Champs. Winter Orb came out and did nothing since I lacked threats. If it were B2B, I would've won that game anyways, since he didn't have enough basics to function at all under it. Basically, many decks stretch themselves too thin so Back to basics gives FS the tool to punish them for it. It's worse against Wombat, Rifter, etc. of course, but those decks are easier MUs anyways (not to mention, I haven't seen a single one in a tournament, online or off, for about a year), and it absolutely just kills the decks you want it against. It's also playable against X-colour Fish/Thresh, where X is 4 or higher. Basically, B2B feels more bomby than Winter Orb and gives me more time to topdeck if I'm having trouble finding threats or so. WOrb slows them down, considerably so, but B2B just kills them.


The Marco: It's all possible, but I wouldn't go about adding white spells to the deck; one Tundra is manageable as far as B2B goes, but I wouldn't want to rely on few Islands when it comes down. Specifically, taking out threats for answers is bad. One of the reasons I liked the new build in the first place is that I get to play 23 creatures, which is a lot more than ever, so I won't get creature fucked. Also, 12 of them draw in a way or another so I can chain creatures relatively easily. As for Engineered Explosives, it's a good card, but I don't think you really need or want multiples. There're MUs where it does very little (midrange decks starting at 3 or higher with their curve, mirror-like MUs, etc.) and I'd rather not see it in those, so I think 1 is the correct number in MD.

Judge_Julez
11-28-2007, 09:07 AM
I'd just thought I'd throw a quick side-winder in at this point

The build that I've been running (for the last 4 months), _eventually_ got though to a win in the last Legacy Tournament held in Manchester, England, UK

decklisting =
http://www.manascrew.co.uk/deck.aspx?deckID=44

Maindeck: 61 cards

4 Stifle
4 Trickbind
4 Force of Will

3 Cloud of Faeries
4 Sea Drake
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Phyrexian Dreadnaught
3 Trinket Mage

2 Lightning Greaves
3 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Zuran Orb
1 Chalice of the Void

4 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
9 Island
1 Seat of the Synod

Sideboard (15 cards)
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Weatherseed Faeries
3 In the Eye of Chaos
4 Propoganda / Watchdog
1 Engineered Explosives
1 AEther Spellbomb


I'd changed it since the thread mentioned to consider Dreadnaughts in the build. Yes, I appreciate it is more like a hybrid between the archetypal Faerie Stompy & StifleNaught decks. But I think some of the ideas are worth the thread re-considering...


The main changes are : -

1. drop the slow-equipping SOFIs for Lightning Greaves (which also protect the Dreadnaughts against GOBLIN TINKERER and SWORD TO PLOWSHARES), and funnily enough ensures that you start attacking a turn earlier - which is not to be sniffed at for a 12/12 trampler :laugh:

2. Changing the counterspell back-up to Stifles & Trickbinds. This also helps in slowing down (1) fetchlands; (2) Aether Vial & (3) activated creature abilities,

I beat a classic Vial Goblins deck in the final round by...
> Sideboarding in 3x Weatherseed Faeries (crucial to the win as I saw 2 in both Games 2 and 3)
> Having access to the Pithing Needle (maindeck) was also crucial to switch off Aether Vial, then Tinkerer
> Stifle-ing the Goblin Tinkerer to stop the Dreadnaught dying in Game 3

Basically what won me the tournament (throughout) were the Dreadnaughts - which most decks couldnt handle; except one - which managed to SWORDS one of them, but the 2nd one got equipped with a Lightning Greaves for the win.

The Blue back-up flying force seem small by comparison...

Anusien
12-01-2007, 11:10 PM
I did a search and saw no discussion on Cloud Spirit and Rishadan Airship. They're both {2}{U} for 3/1 flyers with "~this~ can block only creatures with flying." I bring this up because every time I've worked on Faerie Stompy, the deck's consistency was the biggest issue. The deck would win everytime it had the Serendib Efreet or Sea Drake opening, and lose most of the rest of them. Do these additional large flyers help that? Or is the vulnerability to Fire too much?

Tao
12-02-2007, 09:13 AM
Eladriel's recent build tries to slow down the explosiveness of the deck a little bit in favor of gaining a lot more staying power. 3/1 fliers without abilitiers that are unable to block don't fit into that concept.

Pestermite for example is a much better choice because it gets 3 abilities (Flash, ability to block, tapping) in favor of that one point of power. Tapping one Goyf and chumpblocking the other, or tapping Goblin's Vial in the upkeep before it hits 3 for Warchief madness (or tapping a Rakdos Put Dragon, the color your opponent is short of etc.) can buy you the decisive round to kill the opponent.

Phantom
12-02-2007, 11:35 AM
I did a search and saw no discussion on Cloud Spirit and Rishadan Airship. They're both {2}{U} for 3/1 flyers with "~this~ can block only creatures with flying." I bring this up because every time I've worked on Faerie Stompy, the deck's consistency was the biggest issue. The deck would win everytime it had the Serendib Efreet or Sea Drake opening, and lose most of the rest of them. Do these additional large flyers help that? Or is the vulnerability to Fire too much?

More like their vulnerability to Mogg Fanatic. Goblins is still played and Goyf Sligh is on the up tick. Also, not being able to block ground creatures is very very relevant as this deck hurts itself a lot and is often forced to play defense against quick decks until we gain the advantage.

In short, I agree that another Serendib/Drake would be amazing, but Pestermite and even Cloud of Faeries are a better choice than Cloud Spirit or Rishadan Airship.

Anusien
12-02-2007, 01:36 PM
More like their vulnerability to Mogg Fanatic. Goblins is still played and Goyf Sligh is on the up tick.
Both Cloud of Faeries and Pestermite have one toughness.

*shrug* I've never wanted to block with the deck before, but I can see the logic there.

edgewalker
12-02-2007, 02:04 PM
Both Cloud of Faeries and Pestermite have one toughness.

*shrug* I've never wanted to block with the deck before, but I can see the logic there.

The difference between Cloud of Faeries and Pestermite and Cloud Spirit and Rishidan Airship is the utility. Sure they both die to fanatic and other removal but Airship and Spirit don't do anything but fly. Both Cloud and the mite can produce mana and the mite can be used to pull almost an infinite number of tricks that are always helpful.

Personally, I don't think the 1 point of power and not being able to block is worth it.

Sanguine Voyeur
12-02-2007, 04:25 PM
There aren't any good blue flying creatures with power for three that Faerie Stompy doesn't already run. There are the two 3/1's, Wind Drake [terrible], Cloud Elemental [barely better], and Wormfang Drake [large draw back for this deck]. Unless you splash or run Dreadnought/Stifle, you're stuck with Pestermite.

EDIT: Except for the non-flying Phyrexian War Beast and the mana hungry Phyrexian Ironfoot.

Kadaj
12-02-2007, 04:42 PM
Pestermite and Mulldrifter both fill that 3cc role a lot better than Cloud Spirit or Rishadan Airship would. Both are better in topdeck mode, both have higher upside, and both have more utility. The only advantage the two 3/1s have is that they're 3/1s, but at that point I don't think 1 power makes up for the raw verasitility that Pestermite and Mulldrifter can bring to Faerie Stompy without conceding power elsewhere, something previous incarnations were not able to do very well.

Kronicler
12-09-2007, 01:31 AM
So eldariel, I want to hear about your impressions of both Pestermite and Mulldrifter from your last tourney. Mulldrifter both looks and sounds good, but I'm not so sure about Pestermite. I think I'd rather just run a 10th island for consistency and then either the 3rd blast or the 4th mulldrifter. Do you think 4 drifters would be too much? Were pestermites really that good as a 2 of? On a seperate note, was EE @ 2 relavent enough to add a tundra and 2 fetches? What changes would you make to your list now? I'd love to hear your thoughts on all of these questions.

Kronicer

Versus
12-09-2007, 05:18 PM
I hate being the new guy that comes in and reiterates things probably long ago discussed, but something I noticed at Worlds and didn't see posted in any of the lists here had me curious. I understand that CIP tapped lands don't have any place in an aggressive deck like this, but one of my opponents at Worlds was running Conclaves. Has that already been brought up and dismissed? Back in the Urza days I remember Conclaves and Cloud were pretty solid. Also something to sink mana into so you don't take burn from excess colorless. Maybe as of a two of in place of Islands?

I'd like to give this deck a go. Oddly enough I own 4 Drakes and 4 FoW's, it's the Artifacts I don't have...

xycsoscyx
12-09-2007, 08:18 PM
The original decklist actually did run Conclaves. The problem with them now is that the deck really needs that Blue source ASAP (the CIPT really can wreck you). You give up a little bit of power by cutting the Conclaves, but since they suck with Equipment anways (since you'd have to re-equip each turn since it turns back to a Land), having immediate access to that Blue source just smooths things out a lot.

Zuriya
12-10-2007, 06:05 AM
I am not familiar with you deck, but if you start playing Pestermite, you might also consider Skywing Aven, Fleeting Image (chump block Tarmogoyf all day) or Weatherseed Faeries (one of my casual favorites). Perhaps even Soratami Rainshaper.

Eldariel
12-10-2007, 06:20 AM
All of those have been considered. Weatherseed Faeries was run prior to printing of Pestermite.

Versus
12-10-2007, 07:12 AM
The original decklist actually did run Conclaves. The problem with them now is that the deck really needs that Blue source ASAP (the CIPT really can wreck you). You give up a little bit of power by cutting the Conclaves, but since they suck with Equipment anways (since you'd have to re-equip each turn since it turns back to a Land), having immediate access to that Blue source just smooths things out a lot.

That makes sense. I figured it was along those lines. I guess he was running an older build.

I have to say after playing this deck all last evening that you really get a variety of game states. Most aggressive decks I've played in the past just beat. Then either won or ran out of gas, while I sat and top decked lands. The turn 3 win via Drake/SoFI/Psionic I expected. The turn 20+ with Chalice set at 1, 2, 3, me stabalizing at 1 life, and hardcasting Ranger I did not. Of course now that the deck is moving away from 4 MD Chalices are when I appreciate the validity of having them there. I trust Eladriel more than myself however and will test the list with the 1/3 split as well.

I do like the idea of having the dual around for EE. Again, probably long dismissed, but has anyone tested with a single off colored Artifact Land for just this purpose? While not so hot in your oppening hand, it would be fetchable with Mage. With the single dual, fetches, single Tree of Tales (for instance), and 3/4 Mages, it would make that second color readily available. Probably a horrible idea, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

psyburat
12-10-2007, 11:46 PM
I played this deck to a 5-2 finish at the Worlds side event. Here was the list I ran:

CREATURES (19)
4 Sea Drake
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Trinket Mage
3 Cloud of Faeries
3 Weatherseed Faeries
1 Mulldrifter

SPELLS (19)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Force of Will
4 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Psionic Blast
2 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Pithing Needle

MANA (22)
9 Snow-Covered Island
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 City of Traitors
1 Seat of the Synod

SIDEBOARD (15)
3 Psychic Purge
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Winter Orb
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Weatherseed Faeries

The only matches I lost to were to Threshold, which involved me mulliganing to 3 game 1 and him just having a better draw game 2, and Affinity, which I played horribly against games 2 and 3 due to fatigue despite getting a turn 2 SoFI'd Sea Drake game 1.

The board suited me nearly perfectly during the entire tournament, with every card coming in at least once during the whole ordeal. My only wish was something better to bring in against Threshold, since all I had for him was the underwhelming Tormod's Crypt and Engineered Explosives. I debated on having Threads in my board prior to the tournament, but assumed that the double blue with only one colorless in the cost would be both deadly and inconsistant. In hindsight Trinisphere seems like a decent board card.

I settled my inner-argument regarding playing the StifleNaught version or not when I looked at the price tag of Phyrexian Dreadnaught at the event, but without that factor I still believe that Chalice of the Void is too powerful of a tool to cut for this interaction. It literally won me games, allowing my one of my guys to attack endlessly untouched while my Landstill opponent looked at my Chalice set to 1.

Those are my thoughts regarding this deck. Hopefully there will be local legacy events in the near future (I'm from Philadelphia) for me to attempt to provide more insight and perhaps innovation into the archetype.

zulander
12-13-2007, 12:46 PM
@psyburat- Grats on the finish.

Hey guys, long time eh. I've been playing aggro loam for the most part recently and I was thinking of playing the black splash recently. Here's the list I've come up with.

Mana: 22
4 Chrome Mox
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Underground Tomb
3 Polluted Delta
2 Island
1 Swamp

Beats: 21
4 Sea Drake
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Phyrexian Negator
3 Pestermite
3 Mulldrifter
3 Shriekmaw

Control: 8
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinishphere

Equipment: 6
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Umezawa's Jitte


Now the problem I have is that there's 3 slots left. What should they be? I was thinking FoW but I only run 14 blue cards so I think they wouldn't be all that great.

Versus
12-13-2007, 01:13 PM
Thoughtseize? It basically serves the same purpose as FoW yet in a proactive fashion. The additional life loss may be an issue though.

Or, depending weither your SB runs any of the relevant artifacts (ie Tomb/EE/Needle) how about Trinket Mages in that slot? Although I think Mages should replace the Djinn slot and the artifacts in question should go into the 3 left. Do you find hitting UU difficult with the splash?

psyburat: That was me at Worlds that you were showing your deck to after the 7th round was over. I guess you could say watching it in action inspired me to pick this up.

zulander
12-13-2007, 01:17 PM
Not too hard to get UU because 6 Islands and 4 chrome moxen.

@ mage - I'd like to stay away from mages in this build. This build is a much more aggresive version and trinket mage just isn't worh finding a pithing needle, especially once chalice is @ 1.

@ thoughseize - the reason i wont play it is the same reason to not play brainstorm, chalice @ 1.

I was thinking maybe 3 FoF's or maybe some burn like Psy Blast.

Versus
12-13-2007, 01:27 PM
Not too hard to get UU because 6 Islands and 4 chrome moxen.

@ mage - I'd like to stay away from mages in this build. This build is a much more aggresive version and trinket mage just isn't worh finding a pithing needle, especially once chalice is @ 1.

@ thoughseize - the reason i wont play it is the same reason to not play brainstorm, chalice @ 1.

I was thinking maybe 3 FoF's or maybe some burn like Psy Blast.

Damn, I wasn't even thinking about the cc of Thoughseize.

The only reason I bring up UU as I was under the impression that the original mono-blue list dropped it for its double cc restaints. Figured it would be even more of a potential problem with the splash.

I love Psy Blasts. I notice some lists here drop them altogether. If you're going more agressive anyway, seems like a good choice.

I do like your addition of Maw here though. Great utility and utterly sick when equipped.

zulander
12-13-2007, 01:29 PM
What djinn are you referring to with a cc of UU??

Versus
12-13-2007, 01:32 PM
Isn't Serendib Djinn 2UU?? That's what your list says. Or did you mean to put Serendib Efreet?

zulander
12-13-2007, 01:37 PM
Yeah I'm a noob sorry, definately meant to say efreet.

Phantom
12-13-2007, 03:52 PM
Ummm...

http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7681

zulander
12-13-2007, 04:07 PM
Ummm...

http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7681

Cool, I'll copy my post over there. Thanks for the heads up.

The Marco
12-17-2007, 12:42 AM
Hey I have been a long time Faerie Stompy player, I don't post that often on this thread as I feel that the decklist was pretty thight (I was only a few sideboard slot different from Eldariel's list). However the meta game has shifted rather drastically in the last few months and I feel that the deck needs to adapt. I completely agree with having only one COTV main and four Trinket. In doing so I feel that we should include BS in the COF of Looter's slot...I know Eldariel won't like this one as we are removing creatures from the deck, but the BS should give you the cards that you need (usually the better creatures, I feel that either COF or Looter are out of place in this deck and let's face it BS is just the nuts). Also I think that with Mulldrifter, the lone top (just fantastic if you haven't tried it in this deck do it it's good) and BS we only need 6 equipment usually a 3/3 split between Jitte and SOFI...however with the decline of goblins I think we should look into changing this split for a 2/2/2 between Jitte, SOFI et Sword of Light and Shadow...ok hear me out here, it seems that lately everyone and their mother is playing STP, Smother, Shriekmaw... The abilities of the sowrd of light and shadow are actually not that bad in this deck. 3 life is usually rather good (we tend to deal a lot of damages to ourselves) and the raise dead part is not that bad (evoke Mulldrifter every turn! or just bring back your Drake or Serendib). Obviously SOFI and Jitte are really good and proven, but SOFI's little sister could be a decent metagame choice (I've tried it and it does impove several bad matchup...probably need more testing though). What do you think?? Especially Eldariel since he's playing the deck the most!

Versus
12-17-2007, 04:58 PM
I haven't been playing the deck long enough to say that 4 MD Chalices is the wrong choice. All I can say is I love having them. The deck would feel different without them. However, adapting is part of the game.

I do think there is validity in the SoFI/SoLS split. the life gain seem like a no brainer. As anyone playing this deck knows, a few turns tapping Tombs especially with CoF involved can get your life totals into single digits. I like the idea of recursion too. Muldrifter every turn sounds nice. There were lots of Gastly Demise, Shreikmaw, and STP running around Worlds. Much more than any red removal. However STP and GD are also stopped with Chalice @ 1, which brings us back to the first issue you brought up. Dragon Stompy and Goyf Sligh were also big so pro-red still has it's significance. It's definitely a meta choice between the two Swords I'd say.

I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say "BS" The Marco?

Phantom
12-17-2007, 05:18 PM
He meant Brainstorm.

I'm still not on the drop to 1 Chalice bandwagon. I could see maybe going to three to prevent multiples from coming up in the matchups where Chalice doesn't shine (read - non Loam Control) but down to one seems drastic. There are just so FEW bad chalice matchups. I mean, look at the decks DTB forum:

Landstill - Bad
Goblins - Great on the play. Depends on the build on the draw.
W Thresh - Great all the time and in multiples.
R Thresh - Ditto
Loam - Great.
Survival - Great.
Sui Black - Great
Burn - Beyond Great
Alluren - Great (I'm assuming)
The Rock - Bad

So while I can see some metas where Deed is running wild and a toolbox approach is preferred, I think Chalices should reamain in multiples in the mainboard for now.

HammafistRoob
12-22-2007, 10:23 PM
I agree with Phantom 100%. Even though there is a few matchups where you aren't so happy to see Chalice, there are far more mathups where you'll be extremly happy to get one or two.

Against Loam based decks, Sui Black, and Burn, an early chalice can be game ending. Chalice also has very very good synergy with most of the current Faerie Stompy builds.

Eldariel
12-22-2007, 10:45 PM
If you've read my report from the Finnish Legacy Championships, you'll understand why I'm working on a build with less Chalices. I hope I don't need to delve any deeper into it.

Illissius
12-23-2007, 11:44 AM
Has anyone tried Meloku in here? Seems like it could be strong.

Tao
12-23-2007, 11:48 AM
Meloku was in the original build as a 3-of iIrc and has been reduced and finally cut because it was found too slow in testing.

Dr. DOOM
12-24-2007, 08:19 AM
...However the meta game has shifted rather drastically in the last few months and I feel that the deck needs to adapt...

...however with the decline of goblins I think we should look into changing this split for a 2/2/2 between Jitte, SOFI et Sword of Light and Shadow...



Hi, I just started playing this deck and played the Dutch and Belgian nationals with it. I don't want to jump into the Chalice discussion yet, but last Saturday (Dec 22nd) at the Belgian Open Championships Legacy, it was just raining STP's, Smothers and engineered explosives. Also, out of 120 players, about 40 of them played Thresh with Tarmogoyf and probably another group of 20 with G/B/W aggro loam, G/B aggro, and B/W Homebrew with a green splash for Tarmagoyf. So there was a 50% chance of seeing that green bugger hit the table.As for Jitte, whenever I played it, I never got to use it. Engineered Explosives seemed to be in every deck, and my Chalices rarely lasted for more than one turn.

So I'm thinking of playing this list:

Creatures:
2 Coast Watcher
4 Looter il-Kor
3 Mulldrifter
4 Sea Drake
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Trinket Mage

Spells:
4 Force of Will
2 Psionic Blast
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Sword of Light and Shadow

Lands/Mana:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
1 Flooded Strand
5 Island
1 Polluted Delta
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Tundra
4 Chrome Mox

Sideboard
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Coast Watcher
3 Back to Basics
2 Control Magic
3 Propaganda
1 Chalice of the Void

I have several reasons for the changes to the regular build:

Sword of L&S
-Looter+Sword of L&S also means "draw a card"
-Sword of L&S can recur and protect the much needed drakes and efreets against today's popular removal
-Sword of L&S with evoked Mulldrifter is a nice draw engine as already mentioned.

No more Jitte
It proved to slow to my taste after playing about 28 games. I never got to use it.

Coast Watcher
Pro-Green. I wish I had played this card last weekend. I can't hear the T-word ever again!!! Also the only protection not provided by the swords.

r0ckstAr
12-25-2007, 07:37 AM
I'm quite a noob with this deck and i was just wondering what its worst matchups are ?
And what about a white splash ?

zulander
12-25-2007, 11:50 AM
Okay, now that you're not playing Chalice of the void, why the hell isn't brainstorm in here?

The Marco
12-25-2007, 03:01 PM
Read up, as I mentionned the build without Chalice should play BS (brainstorm), at least in my opinion!

Nydaeli
12-25-2007, 03:14 PM
Actually, I think Ponder would be better than Brainstorm in this deck. It's better than BS on turn 1, which is when you really need it. Also, you probably won't be playing enough fetches to make Brainstorm really shine. I've been goldfishing with Ponder and the deck seems to mulligan much more smoothly.

The Marco
12-25-2007, 03:41 PM
I see your point, however..playing 2 to 3 fetches, 4 trinket as well as a single Cloudchaser makes between 7 or 8 shuffling effects. Granted they are not as good or as fast as fetches but they often do the trick!

Clark Kant
12-25-2007, 05:21 PM
Yes, this deck has plenty of fetch effects.

And Brainstorm is golden, and better than Ponder even without fetch effects IMO. Brainstorm into FoW is still among the best ways to protect your threats.

SilverGreen
12-25-2007, 05:56 PM
I have running that new common counter faerie (I don't remember its English name now) and some more support faeries (Cloud of Faeries, Sea Sprite and a lone Faerie Conclave) and finding it very nice. No one use to see it coming against theirs StP, and it's great entering play EoT to bear a SoFI. I like a lot the card's double role in this deck.

Goaswerfraiejen
12-25-2007, 06:06 PM
I have running that new common counter faerie (I don't remember its English name now) and some more support faeries (Cloud of Faeries, Sea Sprite and a lone Faerie Conclave) and finding it very nice. No one use to see it coming against theirs StP, and it's great entering play EoT to bear a SoFI. I like a lot the card's double role in this deck.

Spellstutter Sprite. I've been running it in another deck as the only faerie, and I definitely like it. The biggest question for FS is how you want it to slot in; Chalice will often take care of mana costs of one or two, so you probably want the sprite to be backed up by Cloud of Faeries again. Ultimately, however, that may be too many weenies. I think it's certainly worth a look, however, although Pestermite might just do the trick better.

Clark Kant
12-26-2007, 01:13 AM
There are good reasons to cut Chalice of the Void.

But if you opt to do so, I see little reason not to run this build...

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 Island
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta

1 Pithing Needle
2 Ponder
3 Lightning Greaves
4 Brainstorm

4 Stifle
4 Trickbind
4 FoW

4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Trinket Mage
4 Sea Drake
4 Serendib Efreet

From this thread... http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6673

Perhaps with...

-2 Ponder
-3 Brainstorm
+4 Infiltrator il-Kor
+1 Sensei's Divining Top

Or some variation there of.

Versus
12-30-2007, 09:02 PM
I always feel like an asshole "suggesting" cards that I know you've all tried and dismissed, but since I wasn't here when this was being developed I guess I'll just ask as to why they are considered suboptimal.

I've been testing/goldfishing the shit out of this deck the past few weeks and while 95% remains fairly consistent with whats already being run by the majority of FS players, I've been messing around with a few slots. Basically (depending on your build) these 3 slots would replace Pestermites/Psi-Blasts or Chalices for those who've dropped down to 1 MD.

Raven Familar: Besides giving additional effectiveness to Tops, and after it's served it's Impulsive fuction, early game can block a Goyf for a turn if need be or remove a Bridge. Late game in a pinch the echo can be paid and you still have an equipable beater.

Man-O-War: Besides the obvious, it could bounce a hard cast Drifter back to your hand to be used a second time.

Like I said, I'm sure there isn't a XU spell in existence that hasn't been tested or considered. I just figured I'd ask.

edit: I just reread the thread. I see BreathWeapon did try Raven and favored it, yet Taco made quite a few good points as to why it's not the right choice for a deck like this. Taco also had MOW's in his deck at one point and dropped them. Still, while the points made against Raven are solid, with Top being considered it seems like he's worth giving a second chance.

Dr. DOOM
12-31-2007, 03:37 AM
Last weekend I played a small tournament with 3 sword of light and shadow, 3 looter il-kor and 4 mulldrifter maindeck, and in most games where I couldn't go for a fast kill, I could get a draw engine online with the sword and the looter or mulldrifter recursion. Also, the pro-white and pro-black was a pain for most opponents against STP and smother.

VsTheWorld
12-31-2007, 03:22 PM
Here's the list I played to a Top 4 finish at Wareham this past Saturday:

// Deck file for Magic Workstation
//NAME: Faerie Stompy

// Lands
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Underground Sea
2 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta

// Creatures
1 Shoreline Ranger
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Trinket Mage
4 Sea Drake
3 Pestermite
4 Mulldrifter
3 Looter il-Kor
4 Juggernaut

// Spells
3 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Chrome Mox
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

// Sideboard
SB: 2 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 4 Force of Will
SB: 2 Control Magic
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Winter Orb

I was, uhh, experimenting with no Force of Will maindeck in exchange for increased threat density. I ran 27 creatures with Juggernaut and Looter il-Kor filling in the slots vacated by Force and Chalices. I'm not decided on whether or not cutting MD Force was a good idea, but it never really hurt me in the tournament at all. I've decided that I don't like Top as a Trinket target, mostly because I can't envision a situation where I would want to find it over Chalice, Needle, Crypt, or EE. I only cast it once all day and decided it didn't fit in at all with the hyper-aggressive build I was going for. On the other hand, I was very impressed with the single Sword of Light and Shadow, and I might consider cutting another piece of equipment to add a second one next time. Life gain is great in a deck that enjoys killing itself with Ancient Tombs, and even though I never got the chance, recurring evoked Mulldrifters turn after turn sounds pretty solid. It saved me from Deed in one match by stocking my hand full of 4 flying guys, so my opponent was forced to Deed with only my one equipped creature out there and take the beatings from my full hand. Protection from StP and Smother is great too, especially with the increased presence of the latter because of Goyf and the reduced number of Chalices to protect from StP. Probably my biggest mistake in this decklist was forgetting to include a 1-of artifact land as a Trinket target. It had never been relevant before this tournament, but in my Top 4 match I played a Mage, went to look, and realized I only had 3 Chrome Mox left in my library as targets. Crap.

I definitely feel like 2 Chalice was the right number. Cutting down from 4 eliminated the problem of drawing dead extras, but I just don't feel safe dropping to 1 like Eldariel. Chalice is just too much of a beating against so many decks to only play 1.

Lastly, my choice of duals for EE actually did matter. I would have played Tundra and Volcanic, but my brother was using the Tundras for UGw Thresh, so I had to play the Sea instead. In my Round 5 match against Ichorid, he has no idea what I'm playing. Knowing I don't have to fear Wasteland, I fetch the Volcanic, which results in a blind Therapy naming Lightning Bolt the following turn. Considering I'm a horrible bluffer, I was pretty happy with that working out. 12 Zombies ran me over the next turn anyway though, so it didn't matter. I'll likely be replacing the Top with a Crypt next time.

Versus
01-01-2008, 01:02 AM
Wow, 27 creatures! Interesting build. Congrats on placing.

I haven't played Legacy out much (twice actually), but as you've pointed out as well as others and from what I did experience, Smother and Ghastly-D for that matter were pretty rampant. Getting to recur Mulldrifter and the life gain makes SoLS that much better. I've been testing the 2/2/2 split between the equipments myself and liking it so far.

As far as duals are concerned, I love the bluff factor. Being able to use them to EE @ 2 is the main reason to run them obviously, but I'm always worried about going too low on basics and maybe screwing myself when running B2B in the board or leaving myself vulnerable to Moons and Wasteland. You mentioned at one point wishing you had Synod, was that because you were facing Wastelands or was it simply to get UU for CM?

Jaynel
01-01-2008, 01:17 AM
It was just to get another mana source, I believe.

J.V.
01-01-2008, 01:20 AM
It was just to get another mana source, I believe.

You mentioned wanted the Synod in our game in Top 4 since really Needles ect hurt you as much as me in the Dragon/Faerie Stompy matchup.

Eldariel
01-01-2008, 07:07 AM
Well, you certainly could've used Force of Will against Dragon Stompy. FoWing a turn 1 Slogger is basically The Win™. I wouldn't dare to go out without a FoW, but I'll be testing SoLaS since the protection makes it a much stronger deck against the appropriate colours than either Jitte or SoFI. It'll truly be a case of just bluffing them enough to equip it and just winning; it also makes Force better as you can use it to protect the creature for just long enough to equip and win; any iterative StPs et. al don't matter. I'm worried about the fact that it can't kill opposing creatures, making me more open to certain Joblins, Purechina Angel, Confidant, Shade, 'Goyf, Welder et al. Mayhap that's bearable though. For a creature, do consider Gathan Raiders, if you aren't running FoW, it may very well be worth the slot and the colourlessness is hardly a problem if you didn't need blue to begin with.

I'm not liking Looter anymore even if I'd play SoLaS; I can constantly cycle Cloud and damn, Cloud gives you the acceleration to match decks like Dragon Stompy. Matches against that made me remember how fast Faerie Stompy is in the first place, so I'd rather not give that up. Besides, Looter has been nothing but glacial whenever I've tested it, and the inability to chump has hurt quite a lot in this meta


Btw, EE for 0 is really good vs. Ichorid. Just sayin'. Also, I strongly suggest you try B2B if you expect at all midrange control or Rockkish decks, the card just wins there.

Versus
01-01-2008, 09:25 AM
the inability to chump has hurt quite a lot in this meta



I'm glad someone said it. Most may balk at the mere mention of chumping in a deck like this, but riding out a single equipped flyer each turn while throwing Mulldrifters, CoFs, and Mages in front of opposing ground attacks becomes very relevant more often than the full on alpha strike strategy to win.

VsTheWorld
01-01-2008, 10:58 AM
I was scrambling around before the tournament trying to find a set of Back to Basics, but I couldn't so I had to stick with Winter Orbs. Oddly enough, this ended up working out well for me, because the only matchup I had all day where I boarded them in was against ForceofWill playing Loam Control and I was able to keep untapping the Underground Sea and City of Traitors I drew instead of being locked down under my own card. If I were to play B2B, I would probably cut down to one dual.

I also agree 100% on Looter. On its own, it's not a threat. It doesn't block Goyf, Slogger, Mongoose, or any other relevant creature in the format. The card filtering ability actually made me hesitant to attack sometimes when I only had 1 card in hand. Plus, I'm not a fan of taking 2 from Ancient Tomb then mana burning for 1 afterwards. My likely changes would be -2 Looter, -2 Juggernaut, +4 Force. Juggernaut is just so much better in Vintage.

Versus
01-01-2008, 06:39 PM
For those that do play B2B and happen to run the 3 Fetch/1 Dual mana base, do you find you have issues screwing yourself? I also noticed that Eladriel dropped Synod in order to run that configuration and maintain at least 5 Islands, again you didn't find that to hinder you at all?

Eldariel
01-01-2008, 08:22 PM
For those that do play B2B and happen to run the 3 Fetch/1 Dual mana base, do you find you have issues screwing yourself? I also noticed that Eladriel dropped Synod in order to run that configuration and maintain at least 5 Islands, again you didn't find that to hinder you at all?

Very rarely do I need to fetch a Synod over a Mox. Sometimes it could be helpful, but I've had my Synods blown up once too often in the recent past, and the addition of Back to Basics was the thing that pushed me over the edge. I absolutely didn't want to have any more than one Island that doesn't untap. To answer your question, yes, I've had the dual in play with B2B, but I still won since I was up against 4C landstill that couldn't produce mana for Pernicious Deed to save its life after B2B landed. Similar things happened against BW Pox (which ran Urborgs and Mishra's, thus making its manabase suspectible to B2B), but again, I won since I run Islands.

Basically, one dual doesn't hurt me enough to usually lose my matches (yes, it's going to lose me one match at some point, but running it is going to win me many more before it so I'm willing to make the sacrifice) even if I do draw it and have B2B in since B2B is such a ridiculous bomb against the decks where it works. Heck, that's the reason I switched to B2B from Winter Orb in the first place; Orb wins if I have a clock. B2B just wins. No ifs.


Adding second land would be playing with fire though and as said, being artifact has been causing me more and more anguish recently as I've faced a large number of Deeds whenever I play the deck. I can beat decks packing Deeds, but losing lands to it basically means that I can't go with the 'force them to blow up one threat'-plan that normally works oh-so-well against sweepers, thus forcing me to try and Needle or Force it in some scenarios, which is far more difficult than having outs even with it in play. So basically, I'm finding one dual worth it, but Seat of the Synod isn't better enough compared to Chrome Mox for me to run it anymore especially since in many cases, I'll just fetch Sensei's Divining Top instead of an extra land to dig up for a land and try to keep me in business.

Versus
01-01-2008, 09:33 PM
That's the answer I was hoping for. I've been hesitant to even try the 5 Island mana base (B2B notwithstanding) as the one Chalice version in and of itself is hard to wrap my head around. Still, the added versatility of EE regardless of the number of Chalices run MD (or taking advantage of Fetches with Top) is reason enough to go ahead with it.

Speaking of Chalice, I did try out you're latest list for a few games and actually loved how Top and the additional threats functioned in the deck, but then I switched back to 4. I guess I just chickened out. Truth is, even playing the deck for so short a time, you come to rely on Chalice even when it's not entirely necessary. It's great you were able to overcome that obstacle, especially being so close to the deck.

coma
01-03-2008, 07:23 AM
@VsTheWorld: congratulation for result.:laugh:

galeng
01-04-2008, 12:03 PM
Anyone use mulldrifter in faerie stompy to either fill the slot of thirst for knowledge (draw) or maybe cloud of faeries (creature)? I tested it and it rocks. Comes down turn two no prob.

Versus
01-06-2008, 12:19 PM
galeng: Many FS players have been using Drifter in place of TfK for some time now. I'm a fan myself.


Thieves' Fortune 2U
Tribal Instant - Rogue (C)
Prowl U
Look at the top four cards of your library. Put one of them into your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.

Is this worth looking at? Instant speed, fits the curve, and gets around Chalice. Dealing combat damage should never be a problem so sacrificing instant speed for the ability to pay it's Prowl cost of U seems like a pretty solid way to dig. Also makes Top better.

The only drawback I can see right off the bat is the Tribal type pumping opposing Goyfs.

Jaynel
01-06-2008, 12:21 PM
You don't run that many Rogues. Pestermite is the only one, I think.

Versus
01-06-2008, 12:35 PM
Ah crap. I was thinking Prowl could be paid as long as any creature dealt CD, not just a Rogue. Could have worked had it been Tribal Instant-Faerie Rogue. That way CoF AND Pestermite could have made Prowl more likely. Oh well.

zulander
01-08-2008, 07:16 PM
How does this look?

Mana: 26
4 CIty
4 Tomb
4 C. Mox
4 Delta
4 Underground Sea
4 Island
2 Swamp

Creatures: 22
4 Drake
4 Serendib
4 Moroii
4 Mulldrifter
3 Shriekmaw
3 Pestermite

Other: 12
4 Brainstorm
4 Force
2 Jitte
2 SoFi

Sideboard:
3 Chalice
3 Trinket Mage
3 Crypt
4 Plague
2 EE



The consistancy really hurt the deck, and now with the lack of true sligh/aggro chalice for 1 hasn't really done the work it should have. I've overloaded some extra mana and put in brainstorm along with only 4 equipment for better creatures. The only non-threat in the deck is pestermite and he at least flies and is only a 3 of.

Phantom
01-09-2008, 11:30 AM
Edit: I'm an idiot

Phantom
01-09-2008, 11:33 AM
Zu: I replied to you over on the UB thread as to not muck up the main FS thread with unproven splash talk.

zulander
01-09-2008, 11:38 AM
Zu: I replied to you over on the UB thread as to not muck up the main FS thread with unproven splash talk.
Good call, my bad.

Versus
01-11-2008, 03:18 PM
Just in case anyone missed it.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/mana2.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gifCreature - Elementalhttp://mtgsalvation.com/images/spoiler/morningtide-rare.gifWhen Slithermuse leaves play, choose an opponent. If that player has more cards in hand than you, draw cards equal to the difference.
Evoke http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/mana2.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gif

Just when 142/150 MOR cards were spoiled and it seemed like FS wouldn't get anything good. This is good!

Goaswerfraiejen
01-11-2008, 05:02 PM
Just in case anyone missed it.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/mana2.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gifCreature - Elementalhttp://mtgsalvation.com/images/spoiler/morningtide-rare.gifWhen Slithermuse leaves play, choose an opponent. If that player has more cards in hand than you, draw cards equal to the difference.
Evoke http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/mana2.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gif

Just when 142/150 MOR cards were spoiled and it seemed like FS wouldn't get anything good. This is good!



I noticed that, and it's pretty exciting and well worth testing. The question that will need to be answered, however, is whether or not it's much better than Mulldrifter.

Mulldrifter

Pros:

-You will always draw 2.
-The drawing trigger is a CIP trigger, meaning that you can get the cards and keep Mulldrifter on the table.

Cons:

-Costs 5 mana to hardcast.



Slithermuse

Pros:

-Has the potential to draw more than 2 cards--which is especially relevant because FS dumps its hand rather early on.
-Costs four mana.

Cons:

-Has UU in the regular casting cost.
-The number of cards drawn is not consistent, and will likely taper off the longer the game goes.
-You can't keep it in play to draw, which means it'll probably be Evoked more often than not.



Overall, I personally favour Mulldrifter for its consistency (in card-draws) and the fact that you can hardcast it and still draw the cards (with it in play, that is). I think these qualities make it a much stronger offensive choice than Slithermuse, which I probably wouldn't want to equip too much, lest it never leave play.

Jaynel
01-11-2008, 05:29 PM
It's really the "leaves play" clause that kills this card for Faerie Stompy. Goaswerfraiejen correctly stated that Mulldrifter is much more consistent, and that's really what Faerie Stompy needs: increased consistency. It can't gamble on cards that may or may not perform.

Versus
01-11-2008, 06:07 PM
Well damn, I would have thought this almost an auto include. Both of your points are valid. I guess I got carried away. However, I wasn't thinking of dropping Mulldrifter for this, but possibly having it take up the Pestermite slot.

Also, and maybe I'm just grasping at straws here, but taking it's hard casting into account, couldn't you almost think of this as a 3/3 "unblockable" body or a one turn chump blocker? I mean look it like Mudbutton Torchrunner. No one is really looking to send him packing anytime soon.

Still, it should warrant testing, no?

JDunkin00
01-12-2008, 12:29 PM
I noticed that, and it's pretty exciting and well worth testing. The question that will need to be answered, however, is whether or not it's much better than Mulldrifter.

Mulldrifter

Pros:

-You will always draw 2.
-The drawing trigger is a CIP trigger, meaning that you can get the cards and keep Mulldrifter on the table.

Cons:

-Costs 5 mana to hardcast.



Slithermuse

Pros:

-Has the potential to draw more than 2 cards--which is especially relevant because FS dumps its hand rather early on.
-Costs four mana.

Cons:

-Has UU in the regular casting cost.
-The number of cards drawn is not consistent, and will likely taper off the longer the game goes.
-You can't keep it in play to draw, which means it'll probably be Evoked more often than not.



Overall, I personally favour Mulldrifter for its consistency (in card-draws) and the fact that you can hardcast it and still draw the cards (with it in play, that is). I think these qualities make it a much stronger offensive choice than Slithermuse, which I probably wouldn't want to equip too much, lest it never leave play.

Very well stated and mulldrifter only loses to counterbalance with FOW on top in which case so would slithmuse cause of tap top draw FOW.

Phantom
01-14-2008, 10:43 AM
While it's true that Slithermuse is less consistent, it's also so much more explosive (and a bigger beater IIRC).

I'm thinking I'll test a 3/2 split (in Drifters favor). They both are more useful at different times and while I almost always want to see one per game, I rarely want to see two of either. At least that's what I'm thinking so far.

Dr. DOOM
01-14-2008, 07:11 PM
...I wouldn't dare to go out without a FoW, but I'll be testing SoLaS since the protection makes it a much stronger deck against the appropriate colours than either Jitte or SoFI. It'll truly be a case of just bluffing them enough to equip it and just winning; it also makes Force better as you can use it to protect the creature for just long enough to equip and win; any iterative StPs et. al don't matter.

SoLaS making FoW better... I didn't think of that, thanks for sharing, this is absolutely true! I've played a build with four SoLaS, and it's great to bring back countered/destroyed Mages, and it's fun to see how some players act on autopilot and cast plowshares on your equipped creature (Sorry dude, this is "that other sword"). Against Pikula Homebrew, I usually cast the sword first because a creature is easier to topdeck. The first creature that sticks will bring back the rest, roflol


Btw, EE for 0 is really good vs. Ichorid. Just sayin'.

Against Ichorid with Bridge, simply evoke a Mulldrifter, sit back and enjoy the look on your opponents' face :laugh: This is also where SoLaS really shines, keep bringing those drifters back.

socialite
01-14-2008, 07:47 PM
It should be noted that MTG Salvation is listing the Slithermuse evoke cost as 3U, not 2U as posted here. Personally I think it is garbage, but I run a more artifact heavy main deck and still use Thirst for Knowledge.

Eldariel
01-14-2008, 11:19 PM
Alright, I'm fairly sure you absolutely should stay damn far away from Slithermuse. I personally love nothing more than casting a Mulldrifter and drawing a Mulldrifter, but whenever you resolve a Slithermuse and get rid of it, even if it was beneficial to you cardwise, you'd be hardpressed to utilize another one.

One major issue I have with it is that the body isn't flying so it'd be another Trinket Mageish card in that regard and I personally at least still love to have my evasive beaters carry the equipment through. Also, the fact that this is a graveyard-trigger is really annoying; I often want both, a body and the cards when I cast Mulldrifter, but this doesn't even offer the option; it's either the body or the cards. Sure, if one casts it as a creature, one gets the cards when it dies, but it'd be much more pleasant to be able to keep up the pressure from the moment you cast it, not from the moment the opponent kills it.

Slithermuse strikes me as a potentially-powerful-but-very-inconsistent card and frankly, I'll take the consistently powerful Mulldrifter over it any day; almost the same card, except Mulldrifter does what I want it to do whenever I cast it and in any MU. I'd even take Oath of Scholars over Muse since it's a constant effect that allows me to empty my hand every turn and keep churning out threats. Muse is a one-shot effect that can end up doing nothing, or a Hill Giant. Doesn't strike me as playable even at 2U here; that's for other, even more explosive decks, I think.

Dr. DOOM
01-16-2008, 05:55 AM
Has anyone ever tried to use Vesuvan Shapeshifter in Faerie Stompy to enhance threat count?

I see a couple of possibilities:
+ Castable for 3, 4U, or 3UU. The morph ability is not very expensive to pay for.
+ Answer to Goyf, Terravore, exalted angels and the like, especially when equipped.
+ Copy your own Drakes and Efreets

If I'm overlooking any reasons not to include it, let me know. I definately going to test it...

Finn
01-16-2008, 12:00 PM
I hope all talk about Slithermuse has been put to rest. I see no reason to remove the most important recent improvement for this deck in favor of it.

coma
01-22-2008, 08:06 AM
Hy! I’m Enrico Basso , italian player who play only faerie’s stompy. I write to argue on my personal experience.On September I play my optimal build (classic) and I ‘m top 8 on finale Emilia , on December I play a new build more similar to the last build and I lose every mu , also favourable , … Sunday 20 /1 /08 on Cremona I play my old optimal build and I’m top 4 .
I ‘m a doubt: I’m not sure new faerie’s stompy build are better then old.
I don’t know in which direction the deck are going .
Thank you.
My optimal build.
Faerie Stompy:

9 isole
1 sinodo
4 mox di cromo
4 ancient tomb
4 city of t.

4 sea drake
4 efreet di s.
4 cloud of f.
4 trinket mage
2 weatherseed f.

4 sofi
4 jitte
1 needle

4 fow
4 cotv

3 tfk

Side:
3 btb
2 mis-d
4 contol magic
1 cript
2 weatherseed f.
2 island
1 e.e.

P.S.: thanks to Yamelle to his advice.

Versus
01-22-2008, 08:20 AM
coma, I'm guessing the "new" build you speak of is the one that runs 1 MD Chalice for more creature threats? If so, there are many people who still feel 4 Chalice is the right decision, so you are not alone there.

However, you could still run Muldrifters in place of TfK and the 3/5/1 (Fetch/Island/Dual) split to support EE @ 2 and still retain the original 4 Chalice build. Unless you're concerned about being locked under your own B2B?

I would say to play the build that works best for you. It could have just been bad luck in December, but if you like the older build best, then stick with it.

Congrats on the T4 btw.

coma
01-22-2008, 08:46 AM
On december I play a build like the last build that make result , about.
22 mana 9 island 4 city 4 ancient 4 mox 1 sinodo
19 creature 4 drake 3 efreet 3 cloud 3 mulldrifter 3 trinket 3 weatherseed
19 spell 4 fow 4 cotv 1 needle 2 mis-d 3 control magic 3 sofi 2 jitte

I lose against 2 boros 1 angel stompy and I don't remeber.
thanks

Humphrey
01-23-2008, 10:33 PM
Hi,
im just starting to ploay the deck, and im glad that someone else here noticed the advantage from SoL over SoF and the "combo" with Mulldrifter

In my build i dropped the Trinketmagetoolbox because in earlygame i always pitched it into Mox or Force and later i got Chalice1 already, so i cant use the artifacts. EE i never used and also i prefer more basicland, because i think b2b is almost autowin against some decks.

Also i dropped the Weatherseeds, because Prot Red isnt that good i think. Most removal is swords or smother and even gobbo runs that. Once SoF is equipped it hast ProRed anyway. I put Rishadan Airship in, its the better beater.


My current list:


// Lands
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
8 [P2] Island (1)
4 [EX] City of Traitors

// Creatures
4 [R] Serendib Efreet
4 [P2] Sea Drake
4 [UL] Cloud of Faeries
4 [MM] Rishadan Airship
2 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
1 [SC] Shoreline Ranger
4 [LRW] Mulldrifter


// Spells
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
2 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
2 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
2 [MR] Lightning Greaves

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [BOK] Reduce to Dreams
SB: 4 [MM] Misdirection
SB: 4 [DK] Tormod's Crypt

Dr. DOOM
01-24-2008, 05:10 AM
That's an interesting build you're showing here. Isn't 9 equipment a bit too much?

I think I might take this build for a spin, but I would do something like this:

// Lands
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
8 [P2] Island (1)
4 [EX] City of Traitors

// Creatures
4 [R] Serendib Efreet
4 [P2] Sea Drake
4 [UL] Cloud of Faeries
3 [MM] Rishadan Airship
2 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
1 [SC] Shoreline Ranger
3 [LRW] Mulldrifter
3 Trinket Mage


// Spells
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
3 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Pithing Needle


// Sideboard
SB: 3 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 4 Back to Basics
SB: 3 [MM] Misdirection
SB: 2 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Trinisphere

You mention B2B in your post, but couldn't find them in your build :-)

coma
01-24-2008, 07:27 AM
@humphrey: I can understand all the choosen cards .
The only thing I don't understand is the total absence of trinket mage.

zulander
01-24-2008, 08:43 AM
A lot of people are dropping trinket mage due to the whole 'I don't actually help you win' part as well as the inconsistencies it brings to the deck.

I've noticed with the deck that the way you make it better is to make it more consistent and tightening the 'utility' creatures to 2 of the three used guys (mulldrifter/pestermite/trinket mage) and I personally only like the first two.

Humphrey
01-24-2008, 08:57 AM
I dropped Lightning Greaves, i just throw it in yesterday. Most of the time i have only 1 Beater, so i cant unequip Greaves to put a Sword on it. Maybe ill put 2 Needles or 2 B2B MB. But i would like to see another Beater in this Slot. Maybe 2 more Airships (Cloud Spirit)
Before i was testing Venser, Shaper Savant, but i never cast it.

As i said, normally Trinketmage ist just a chumpblocker/useless Tutor, with Chalice 1. Bad Topdeck also. Next Problme i often cant cast the Artifact samt turn i tutored. So i better run 4 in SB to have it directly.

Yeah i dropped B2B, my Sideboard isnt ready yet. Currently testing Reduce to Dreams, because Geddonstaxx destroy me, also Affinity is tough.

Maybe its really a good idea to drop Jitte and put more Swords in, u have faster Dmg, but u cant chose between life or removal.

Versus
01-24-2008, 09:12 AM
Besides Needle, what wouldn't Mage be able to help you get/cast afterwards if Chalice were already set at 1? If you're running the 1/3/5 land split, chances are you're EE'ng @ 2, you can still Chalice for 2, grab a Mox, Crypt...

I can see going down to 2/3 Mages if you're keeping 4 Chalice MD, but if you're going down to 1 Chalice MD and upping the more evasive/utility creature threats I think having the max amount of Mages is the way to go.

I'm not saying which version (more or less Chalices) is right, I'm just stating my opinion on how many Mages should be included in either.

Humphrey
01-24-2008, 09:21 AM
I prefer frst turn Chalice 1.
- protect the turn 2 beater from stp
- protect me from (more) duress, thoughtseize, onedrop creatures like lackey or else
- wrecks combo
- stops blue cantrips

and so on. Later a 2nd Chalice@2 never hurts

No, i dont think im goin back to Mages.
Midgame:
Mox useless,
8 Non Basics are enough 4 me, specially with only 16 lands
Chalice not neccessary
Needle very nice but chalice 1 most of the time
EE needs another turn to activate and then only on 1, ive no worries about onedrops in midgame.

Humphrey
01-27-2008, 08:40 PM
Today i played against 4c Landstill and it was horrible. Also the Staxmatchup sucks hard.
What do u guys think, a white splash for SB Serenity and SB maybe even MB Armageddon ?

VsTheWorld
01-27-2008, 09:02 PM
Landstill is always going to be a tough matchup, but you really should be running Winter Orb/Back to Basics in the board. You even said it yourself a few posts back, B2B is almost an autowin and can often be your only way out against Landstill. Chalice at 1 to protect your beaters from StP against Landstill is a double edged sword, as it also shuts off your own much-needed Needles, so you really need some way to keep them off mana and manlands.

coma
01-28-2008, 09:52 AM
Against landstill 4c you win with mis-d (if you have) and btb (winter orb is less strong than btb).
Classic feature match vs landstill .
fs play cotv 1 (step 1)
fs play thread like sea drake , or efreet (step 2)
landstill loook for and cast solution like wrath or ...
fs cast btb ... may be fow (landstill) and fow or mis-d (fs) (step 3)

Needle is vs cotv 1 and you need to cotv ...then if you play btb , you don't need to needle because btb stop also manland.

landstill is a difficult mu , if you don't play btb or winter you can't win.
bye

Eldariel
01-28-2008, 12:38 PM
I've actually won a good number of games vs. Landstill without B2B. Of course, it depends on the exact build (4C is obviously the hardest without B2B since it runs the most removal), but generally if you can start casting creatures from turn 1, you'll be fine. If they play Humility, you can usually tackle it with equipment and thanks to the size of your guys, you can force them to trade sweepers 1-for-1, perhaps taking a Mox or so, but nothing worse. Crucible is of course a card one doesn't want resolving, and Standstill is annoying; I personally try to keep a threat in play if at all possible to try and keep Standstill from being castable. Of course, trying to keep Crucible from resolving is extremely valuable which is what I usually keep my Forces. I'll also keep an EE in to kill opposing Needles if my Chalice doesn't resolve.

If you can resolve Mulldrifters, life gets a lot better. Drawing cards is good.

Humphrey
01-28-2008, 02:34 PM
Sure B2b is win, but first u have to draw it (never seen in 5 Games) and then u have to resolve it. So i thought maybe Geddon and B2b could be a choice.

Also this Deck runs so much removal. Deed, EE, Swords, Edict, Crime//Punishment and 12 Counters : /

Humphrey
02-04-2008, 06:42 PM
Its to quiet here :P
I think this deck needs more tweaking.

Atm im testin Moc Diamond over Chrome. Its much better i think. U have to add few more lands but that makes it more stable.

Since Diamonds produce any color its much easier to splash. Currently im into red, because of Magus.

My actual list:

// Lands
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [EX] City of Traitors
6 [P2] Island (1)
1 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [R] Volcanic Island

// Creatures
4 [UL] Cloud of Faeries
4 [LRW] Mulldrifter
4 [P2] Sea Drake
4 [AN] Serendib Efreet
2 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
4 [FUT] Magus of the Moon

// Spells
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [SH] Mox Diamond
4 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
2 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 4 [MM] Misdirection
SB: 4 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 [TE] Propaganda

coma
02-05-2008, 07:55 AM
I want to talk about possible evolution of fs.
I ‘m a doubt: I’m not sure new faerie’s stompy build are better then old.
I don’t know in which direction the deck is going.
I see 3 big kind of build :

1 build with only 6 equippe ( less aggro) , but with more solution like e.e (with splash) and sometime with some card to catch opponent’s creature.
Side with strong enchantment like btb , chill , propaganda
Some example:

http://www.deckcheck.net//deck.php?id=12210

http://www.deckcheck.net//deck.php?id=10497

http://www.deckcheck.net//deck.php?id=12732

2 build play by eldariel with more creature , more drawing effect , only 1 cotv , but with great toolbox for our trinket.
Near a solution deck.

http://www.deckcheck.net//deck.php?id=12193

3 classic and old build , more practice and aggro , with more equippe.
Build play to yamelle and other.
In side more pro red creature , because we matter on a good number of main deck eqippe

http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showpost.php?p=100534&postcount=520

http://www.deckcheck.net//deck.php?id=12534

I think is same competitive of 3 build about , but instead the first and second have better mu vs control and aggro-control , the third is better against aggro (less vs control).
I think that is 3 build for 3 different kind of player.
thank

DrewliusMaximus
02-05-2008, 01:49 PM
Although this is my first post on the Source, I have followed the FS since pretty early on in its days on the Developmental Forum. By the way, thanks Eladriel for creating a somewhat unique and competitive deck that is, above all, fun to play. Anyway......

I noticed a little stagnation in FS development. I was going to wait until I had tested my build a tournament or even a decent-sized informal event, but since there are no Legacy anythings around, I figured I'd just post. Here's my recent modifications to FS:

Land (17):
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
6 Island
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Tundra

Artifact Mana (6):
4 Chrome Mox
2 Lotus Petal

Creatures (21):
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Mulldrifter
4 Trinket Mage
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Sea Drake
1 Shoreline Ranger

Instants (6):
4 Force of Will
2 Psionic Blast

Artifact Utility (5):
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives

Equipment (5):
2 Jitte
2 Sword of F/I
1 Sword of L/S

Sideboard:
2 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sword of L/S
1 Chalice of the Void
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Misdirection
4 Back to Basics

The biggest difference between this build and most others is obviously the Lotus Petals. Although the Petals make the deck mana-heavy, they:
1. make blasting an Explosives for 2 easy (Petals being Mage-tutorable)
2. increase explosive starts (especially getting around Drake's drawback)
3. help play around all sorts of land destruction/disruption
4. help play around daze
5. make a more mulligan-friendly deck

Thank you WotC for Mulldrifters, which among other things help somewhat mitigate this build's problems with topdecking mana. Also, the excessive artifact mana can be sideboarded out for certain matchups.

I like 4 Mages because of the flexibility they add to the deck.

I like 3 Chalices MD, but it does seem like Chalice is getting to be less of a dominant play these days.

I understand that this deck can abuse equipment insanely, but I hate having an equipment and no living creature...alot. For now I have gone down to 5 equipments (with one more in the SB), but I am not sure about this. I do like Sword of Light and Shadow as a 1-of for the possibility of Mulldrifter recursion.

Overall, I believe that Faerie Stompy, being somewhat of a gambler's deck, needs to be more mulligan-friendly. Additionally, I wanted to be able to power through land-disruption and soft counters better. Those reasons, along with the explosives-enabling effect of Petals, is why my build is relatively mana-heavy.

I have played this build against mono-red Goblins, R/W Goblins, U/G/W Thresh, Dragon Stompy, Angel Stompy, B/W (deadguy variants) control, U/W/R Landstill, some random Fish decks, and that deck that combos by making cycling 2-mana cheaper (can't remember what its called). I haven't played it against anything else though, and I don't have notes as the games have been pretty casual.

Well, forgive me for making my first post so damn long, but now y'all can lay into my build with some criticism.

Humphrey
02-06-2008, 08:58 AM
Well just adding 2 Petals to the standardbuild is not the improvement the deck needs in my opinion.
Well i dont want to start a Game without Chalice 2 most of the time. Shutting down Stp, Bs, Top, Thoughtseize and much other stuff is absolutely neccessary to perform well.

DrewliusMaximus
02-08-2008, 03:31 PM
I know that merely adding two Lotus Petals is a minor modification, but it seems to have had a major impact on my games over the long-term. I'm sure it is partially just a personal preference for being more comfortable with mulligans...but I have definitely seen tangible success dealing with Daze, land disruption, and especially Engineered Explosions. I want more consistent ability to play Explosives with 2 counters.

As for Chalice, I agree with you Humphrey. It is definitely still a very strong play, especially first turn. That's why I don't want to play a build that goes down to 1 Chalice MD. However, I do see the need to maximize blue cards for Chrome Mox and FOW, and I don't need Chalice overkill against alot of matchups. So, for now I feel like 3 Chalices MD is good.

Humphrey
02-08-2008, 10:01 PM
Maybe u should also test the Mox Diamonds. U are able to cast EE 2 very easy, also the manabase is more stable. Add 2 more Islands for the Petals.
Its nice to discard the 2nd City or another Tomb if u already have 2 Mana in play.

Yamaelle
02-09-2008, 04:42 AM
I haven’t been posting for a long time on this thread, but I keep playing FS, and I keep reading this thread once in a while. I agree that this deck has to change, compared to his earlier versions, but I disagree with most of what I recently read here, i.e. cut some Chalices, cut some Trinket Mages, cut Cloud of Faeries, add some Mox Diamonds+lands, etc...

This is my post Lorwyn FS deck:

4 City of Traitor
4 Ancient Tomb
9 Island
1 Seat of the Synod
4 Chrome Mox

4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Sea Drake
3 Trinket Mage
3 Sower of Temptation
3 Mulldrifter

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Pithing Needle
4 Force of Will

SB:
1 Pithing Needle
2 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Back to Basics
4 Silent Arbitrer
3 Sea Sprite
1 Sower of Temptation

I still play 8 equipements, and I believe with more threats in the deck, it’s not overkill, and even better. I know some people are going to explain that it is too much, but if they test the deck, maybe they will understand one day. I top8ed too many tournaments with FS to pay attention to these statements. I cut the Jitte, which was a hard decision, but without TfK to get rid of extra Jittes, it was becoming an issue. I can now more safely cast Chalice=2, only CoF are affected, and they can be cycled. SoL&S as others have mentionned here, is very strong in the actual metagame, and with a lot of flying creatures you have a good chance to have it trigger. Geting back all the good creatures with CIP abilities, like Mage, Mulldrifter, Sower, is good. As is giving protection from Stp and Smother. Sower is my MD answer to Goyfs and annoying creatures. I used to dismiss them, because they couldn’t be “used again” in this deck. 4 SoL&S change the deal, and really improved a lot of MUs, including most Control ones.

Same for the Arbitrers in SB, that I used to test a while ago. It was very strong against Goblin, Slivers, Elves, WW, etc, but when I had no way to take them back from graveyard, it was not a reliable SB answer. Especially against Goblin (incinerator cycled), which was an issue. Back to Basics is really stronger than Winter Orb in the actual meta, and wins games by itself. Between the manabase, the Drakes and the CoF, you will almost never “lock yourself” under BtB. I cut the Misdirections, because I felt it was not needed anymore, be it versus Burn, MonoB, or Control. The SB is not “optimal”, as I came back to China, I don’t have Legacy events to test, so it was only online testing that are not the more reliables. Depending on how much Goblins are expected, I guess some Sea Sprites/Arbitrers could be cut, probably for a 4th Trinket Mage or a 2nd Needle.

My g1 vs Gob has become pretty bad, but I have a lot of SB, and the next games are closer to 50-50. But the other MUs, including vs Threshold and Landstill, which was my goal. The SB is not “optimal”, as I came back to China, I don’t have Legacy events to test, so it was only online testing that are not the more reliables. I am pretty sure other builds can also work, but this one has done well, out of the many games I played.

On a side note, I’d like to thank Coma, who asked for some help on his FS deck, got it, then showed some results in the different tournaments he attended, and paid attention to mention that. Those things are very rare nowadays...And at least I have another person that has some results to back much of my points about this great deck.

Phantom
02-09-2008, 12:02 PM
@ Yamaelle: I've always respected your take on FS, and this is no different. That is the best build I've seen in a while. A couple of thoughs:

- Sower of Temptation looks amazing, and while cutting Jitte sounds criminal (and actually hurts me to think about) but SoLaS looks to have some pretty amazing synergy in your build. I am worried about it on a Trinket Mage (no evasion) and a CoF (only three damage and they are often in play first with no creatures in the yard). Still I trust you enough to know you've tested a lot, and I think I'll try out the build myself and see how she runs.

- Silent Arbitrer. This guy really does the trick against Goblins? I'd be worried about getting the mana, and them tutoring up Hooligan after Hooligan to kill him and the Sword that is recurring him. I would have thought Propaganda would be much better as it pitches to Force, is more difficult to remove (Gobs need Grip, and Rb has no way to remove it) and is cheaper (making it better vs EtW and Goblins Wastes/Ports).

Eldariel
02-09-2008, 01:02 PM
I'm glad you bothered to post for a change, Yamaelle. You pretty much always place the most with the deck and offer a lot of valuable insight as far as developments go. I like that build and find many cards I've previously dismissed worth reconsideration. I'll have to say though that 1-2 Chalices vs. 4 Chalices is definitely a meta consideration. Here in Finland, where I expect to regularly face anywhere from 2 to 4 control- and Rock-decks in any given tournament, Faerie Stompy isn't necessarily a bad choice, but 4 Chalices tends to be. Mostly I need to generate enough card advantage to defeat Deeds and their removal so the additional Trinket Mages and Mulldrifters definitely come handy, and the Sensei's Divining Top off Trinket Mage is actually a good fetch every now and then.

I'll emphasize that if the meta one is preparing for contains a huge amount of Threshold, Goblins, fast combo and so on (what the generic online-meta looks like), 4 Chalices is the correct choice, but if you expect huge amounts of midrange decks and control, those slots are better served as other cards. So I'm not suggesting the build for everyone, but I am convinced that it's correct for me. The same reason is why I maintain my two Psionic Blasts in the main; I'm still finding them often the difference between letting control stabilize and stealing a close game. In a more aggressive metagame, I'd definitely consider removing them.


I'll have to test 4 SoLSs in the maindeck; I haven't had the courage yet, but I can definitely see it being solid, especially since I run 4 Mulldrifters. Also, Sower of Temptation looks interesting enough as a MDable Control Magic-effect. The whole net of effects those cards build (SoLS supporting Sower enough to make it playable and Mulldrifter making SoLS's effect powerful even if opponent hasn't killed any creatures) seems to do the same job Jittes used to.

Have you been happy with Sea Sprites? I'm almost thinking Hydroblast may actually be solid in that slot, as you can bring them in over Chalices on the draw versus Goblins (on the draw in this MU, I personally find Chalice either worthless as they drop something stupid early on, or win more as I'm stomping them in the air as I handled their early drop and took away the wind from their sails).

Have you been happy without Misdirections? Between all the black decks getting a boost in Tarmogoyf (and thus being very popular) and Duress becoming Misdirectable as Thoughtseize, and Back to Basics being a supportable 'I win'-card against many decks and Burn being pretty common, I've actually found Misdirection to be more valuable than ever.

Yamaelle
02-10-2008, 03:50 AM
It’s nice to get some comments from both of you.

Sower is amazing, especially with the 4 SoL&S. It is sided out vs Goblin, but is almost never a dead card. With 22 mana sources, the cc is seldom an issue.

Silent Arbitrer is really great against Gob. It allows to extend the game, while you keep attacking with flyers. They can only deal with it with a big incinerator, or Tinkerer/Hooligan. But in my testing, It came online turn 2 many times (often with the help of CoF, or Mox), and Goblin usually cannot kill it before a couple turns. If you can protect it with a SoF&I, it is pretty much gg. Again, playing 4 and the SoL&sS means you can sometimes manage to get 2 online. I guess I am helpless against Grips, good thing for me most Gob decks I face are monoR or Rb. As for Propaganda, I tried them many times, but keep dismissing them. It fits the curve a little better, and harder to remove, but when they get 4 manas, or more, it is no longer very helpful. It cannot be taken back via SoL&S, which for me is the major issue. Propaganda is a nice out to EtW tokens, but so is Arbitrer.

As for cutting the Jittes, it was tough. Really, really tough. No, tougher than that. But with the 8 Swords, the Sowers in MD, and the Arbitrer in SB (against aggro deck that have tendency to overextend), Aggro MUs in general do not seem to have suffered. Except for the g1 against Gob, and the next games are a lot better (+4 Arbitrers, +3 Sea Sprites, +2 Needles), testing has really done well.


@Eldariel: I understand why you cut some chalices, and my initial comment about all the “bad things I read in this thread” weren’t of course addressed to you. I never liked Blasts in this deck, though I do play 4 in my T2 Faerie deck, but I understand how it can work for some people. I am pretty sure if the old FS thread was still open, we could dig for some comments about why I cut the blasts, and why you advocate running some.

As for SoL&D, I tested it a long time ago, and founded Jitte to be really stronger. But the printing of Mulldrifter and Sower of Tempation and testings really made me change my mind. You also avoid having the legendary issue that we sometimes had with Jitte, when you didn’t draw your random TfKs. (probably me more than you , as I was playing 4 Jittes). In short, I would advise you to at least try it, and I’m pretty sure, you will like them.

About the Blue Blasts, I use to dismiss them, because I wasn’t siding out my chalices in this MU. Part of the reason is because, we mostly had monoR Gobs in France, and they paked Red Blast in SB. Stopping Vial, Lackeys, Random Fanatics, and Red Blasts was enough for me. Now, with the Silent Arbitrers, I really need Needles (mainly Wastelands, Tinkerers, and Incinerators), therefore I side out the chalices. You made me want to reconsider the Blue Blasts.

As for Misdirection, it saved my ass in many tournaments, so I really like them. But I feel it was overkill vs Burn, which I keep calling a bye for FS, you don’t get to encounter many Solidarity decks nowadays, and against Landstill like decks, I prefer to have some BtB, and I have troubles siding out cards in these MUs. Usually some Chalices, and some equipments, but I am having a hard time to make room for 7-8 cards (3 BtB/Orb, 3 Misdi, 1 EE, sometimes Needles, etc) Running 8 cards enabling card disadvantage, and few cards that enable real CA has always been an issue in this deck. Misdirection is seldom CA (on an Hymn, it is), but against some Thoughteize, I still prefer to rely on Chalices.

With my build, a lot of cards actually do some CA (the 8 swords, almost half of the creatures, and of course the virtual CA of Chalices). I guess it could be a good point in favor of Misdi, but I had to cut some cards in the SB, and this time they didn’t made it. I am really less worried against decks with heavy discard disruption. A single SoL&S is usually enough. You give proB, get life back, and your creatures. Maybe I’ll change back to them, but for the moment, I really feel no need to.

DrewliusMaximus
02-10-2008, 09:28 PM
Has anyone using Back to Basics in the SB wanted a 4th one? Even though a resolved BtB destroys Landstill (one of FS's worst matchups), is the extra redundancy still not warranted?

Filipinho
02-11-2008, 11:58 AM
I've always wanted to play the deck. Couldn't because the lack of Sea Drakes. I finally found someone here in Brazil who has them and actually wants to sell. He wants u$200,00 for the set nm. Do you think its fair?

Rinello
02-11-2008, 12:04 PM
I think they are VERY HIGH.

25$ each is fair.

Humphrey
02-11-2008, 12:58 PM
I paid 32USD each for mine but german. A friend picked a playset on ebay for 110USD.

Aznopium
02-11-2008, 06:49 PM
SEa Drakes about $30 on average on ebay. If you find a playset for about $100-$110 you are a paying a bit less than average.

Filipinho
02-11-2008, 08:27 PM
thx guys.. Guess I'll have to wait till my friend goes to a PT, or something for me to get a set. :cry:

Dr. DOOM
02-13-2008, 04:45 AM
thx guys.. Guess I'll have to wait till my friend goes to a PT, or something for me to get a set. :cry:

Did you negotiate about the price? Maybe he'll accept a lower offer if no one wants them for that price. By the way, I got a playset, booster mint, for €100,which is about USD 135.

coma
02-14-2008, 08:35 AM
I ‘m very happy to see again a yamelle’s post.I think he can give an important input to fs’s development.
First of all I want to recall when I write , I write on Italian metagame.
A very aggro meta : first deck is gob r/w (all play rw version), second ***** ugr/ugw and we begin to see some ugb, some landstill and we begin to see some landed (landstill 4c with stalker), in this period is in fashion rockguy bwg.

So, eldariel’s build is charming , but (as he say) I think it is more competitive in a control and aggro-control meta.
And I think it is a great build (only with 1 cotv and big toolbox) , for a strong player ( to his difficult to play), too skill intensive for me.

Yamelle’s build is interesting and may be it have the right speed (less then old build , but may be not too slow for my meta) to try play it. Sols can be on the beam for new meta with more black (thanks to stalker) , and it has interesting ability to allow to a recursion with trinket-swor of t.-mulldrifter abilities.
I want to try , first of all , silent arbitrer , in sb , because I think it’s a great card ( I don’t remember it) , that kind of card like control magic and btb , it can bring the deck and higher step of fight.
Silent arbitrer can use it against goblin( out of phirokinesis)…aggro in general (ww, zoo , etc..), and ichorid (I think).It is also a ductile card.

In this period I cut 1 mis-d , because 3 is too heavy and I don’t feel necessity , but It’s hard to leave it for me .

@yamelle: only 2 stupid doubt :
1-“why sea sprite and not weatherseed f. on sb”
2-“I understand because main deck you use sower of t. , but only in sb (also to change ) may be is better control magic. What do you think ?”

Thanks and bye

DrewliusMaximus
02-14-2008, 03:51 PM
I really like the build that Yamaelle posted. I only have 2 Sowers, so I'm playing a 4th Mulldrifter, but after a little play, I think I am reconverted to 8 equips.

I know I only have a few posts, so I'll understand if this question goes ignored again, but I'm going to ask it again anyway...Has anyone using Back to Basics in the SB wanted a 4th one?

Media314r8
02-14-2008, 04:03 PM
Did you negotiate about the price? Maybe he'll accept a lower offer if no one wants them for that price. By the way, I got a playset, booster mint, for €100,which is about USD 135.

I got mint ones signed by Rebbecca along with a BowJay. Did I mention I got one of my drakes in a trade for an elvish piper? (the guy threw in a foil lotter-il kor too!) Almost as good as the time I got a goyf for an academy ruins. (or two playsets and one foil for a total of $33 online)

More on topic, I tested sowers/drifters/SoLS. I don't like the drifters, as spending a turn to draw 2 cards is not what an aggro deck wants to do, even if it is repeatable. I love the crap out of Sower though, and am running slightly more lands and a 4/2 dimond mox/ chrome mox split to support sower. I think looter il-kor still might be the better splot-filler for mulldrifter, as he is almost exalted with SoLS, and mulldrifts every turn with LoFI. (does hurt with chalice @ 2) I haven't set chalice at two often enough to notice the benefit of cutting jitte and looter at the 2 spot, but I havenoticed that SoLS doesnt kill bobs like jitte did. Much more testing is required, but I am now convinced that the deck likes sower.

Dilettante
02-14-2008, 11:40 PM
And do watch for listings that say "Sea Drakes"... I got my set that way, though close to normal... ($91).

Yamaelle
02-15-2008, 02:25 AM
@Filipinho : As others have commented 200$ is way to expensive. It is sad if the lack of Drake prevents you from playing FS. My only advise would be check ebay. There are often some playsets, and if you are lucky (read not many bidders) you can get it for a lot less .

@coma :
1-I used to run both Sea Sprite& Weatherseed Faeries. At first glance, 2/1 is better than 1/1, and 2U fits the curve better. However, these cards are dedicate to fight Goblins. Island+Mox for a turn 1 Sea sprite is a very acceptable start vs Gob. And you don’t always start with 3 manas turn 1 in FS. Facing Wastelands, and Rishadan Ports, paying 1 less mana to cast the proR can save games. Anyway, if the proR doesn’t get equiped soon, be it 2/1 or 1/1, it usually won’t be enough to win the game.

2- Playing with 4 SoL&S, Sowers is now > to Control Magic. I guess the only exception would be vs Llawan Cephalid Empress, that some people smartly sided vs me when I was doing all the Legacy tournaments in the Paris area in France [Do not hesitate to check the card, it just kills FS]. I added the 4th Sower in SB, and I don’t feel I need Control Magic anymore. I you have enough room to fit 3-4 Sowers bewteen MD&SB, and add some SB control Magic, I guess it cannot be bad, but I personally don’t have that room.

@DrewliusMaximus:
Don’t believe you didn’t get an answer because of your few posts, I would be tempted to say, it is more because of the nature of the question itself: All agree BtB is a huge SB card, and it really steals games. I know it might be counterintuitive to only run 3, but here are the reasons: First, a question of room, as you only have 15 SB slots. The Legacy meta is quite diverse, and even if BtB is affecting a lot of different decks, you also need some other specific answers. On my build, I have other cards to add before a 4th BtB. If I could have a 20 cards SB, the 4th one would probably be there.
The second point is that you usually don’t want BtB in opening hand, but rather draw it in the early game. You want to catch your opponent tapped out after a couple turns, not start a game Tomb+Mox for BtB. Running 3 therefore seems acceptable, as the cards you play as 4 ofs are usually the one you want in opening hand (in theory of course). I guess if your meta is really only nonbasics, you could consider a 4th one, but against an open field, I am not sure you really want it.


@Media314r8: I really hate looters in FS, but if it works for you, keep running them. As for Chalice=2, it is needed&recommanded vs MonoB (removal, Tourach, Confidant, most of their knights, ...), anything that runs Loam ( be it 43 Lands, or some aggro builds with Countryside Crushers), a couple other deck, and last but not least, as Goyf costs 1G, I would say Chalice=2 should come more often than once in a while. On the contrary to your experience, I’ve been very happy in my testing to be able to relably Chalice=2, knowing I don’t cut half of my equipements (Jittes when I was running them), and that CoF could be cycled/Mox imprits. And I must say, it happened a lot more than when I was playing this deck 1 year ago or before. I guess we agree on the usefulness of Sowers, maybe after testing we will agree on SoL&S’s one. I just want to say evoking drifter is seldom the correct turn 2 play.

On a sidenote, I am jealous for the signed drakes. My FS deck is all in Chinese, the islands are Beta signed by Tedin, the FoW are signed, a couple others are, but I will need some signed Drakes....

coma
02-15-2008, 05:47 AM
I envy you.
I don't like foil , but I love very much chinese lenguage on cards , and old edition cards like my beta island , control magic etc.
bye

Dilettante
02-15-2008, 07:18 AM
I don't mind Chinese cards at all... I prefer them over English, but it's a visual reason... The text is less heavy than that of the English at the eye is more drawn to the art rather than the text. But when I was in Hong Kong in November, I could only find one store that sold MTG... in a mall... but the cost per-pack there was far cheaper than the prices here in the US per pack wholesale, so I got a few boxes... I was getting Future Sight for $12 HK and Lorwyn for $15 HK... or roughly $1.55 US and $1.93 US respectively. Couldn't find any at Jiang Men at all.

Anyway, I think Yamaelle's build with Sower is extremely effective for most metagames. In my own, I'd have to adjust for Ichorid and Reanimator (I hate Yosei...) bit more (just maindeck a Crypt and max them out in SB). Maindeck 2:1 control is just ridiculous. For just walking into a tournament with a blind meta, I'd rather walk in with that build than the more traditional build. Having the complete lack of Jitte as a liability in mind to dropping Chalice at 2 works for me, the drops coming to my mind that spell trouble for FS other than those listed being... Counterbalance, Burning Wish, Isochron Scepter, opposing Jittes, and Bob. Chalice for 1 may stop removal, but Chalice for 2 prevents disruption. I don't want to decide whether rushing out my Chalice for 2 would negate 3-4 of my draws.

Media314r8
02-15-2008, 09:41 AM
My apologies, I should elaborate. I didn't mean that I never WANT to set chalice at 2, but often turn three chalice at 2 means sacing a CoT in hopes of resolving a chalice @ 2, but knowing that daze or FoW completely wrekcs you, and you just gave up 2 colorless a turn to do so. I DO set chalice at 2, but usually later in the game. I like looter in FS as he hits early (turn one or two) and most opponents don't consider him enough of a threat to kill or counter with FoW. Looter sculpts your hand, and later game, once chalice IS set, replaces all the dead cards in your hand (and those with CC 2) with useful cards. I also typically would rather pay 4 to play a non-daze-able jitte and equip and swing, than set chalice @ 2 that might run into a daze. I'm just saying, winning the game before your opponent can stabilize with explosive, equipped evasion guys is what FS aims to do, not shut off your opponent's deck and slowly win a war of attrition with chalice. Play stacks if you really have a hard-on for chalice @ 2. A turn three/four drake after a chalice (resolved or not) is not >> turn ttwo/three swinging equipped drake.

I honestly cannot believe mulldrifter is still being run, can someone please explain why this is so?

Eldariel
02-15-2008, 09:47 AM
Simple. I generally hardcast it. A 2/2 flyer + 2 cards is a great deal keeping the gas coming making sure I don't run out of threats and increasing my handsize, unlike Looter. Sure, some of 'em will be stuff I don't need, but for example the lands I draw will be put into good use with future Mulldrifters, SoFIs et al. It's just a superb card; I rarely evoke it, but the option is good to have. More important is how it acts as a 3-for-1. Evoke>SoLS>Evoke is a great way to dig for FoW or something though. And if you can get Evoke>SoLS off, you'll have so obscene card advantage that you'll just win after the hardcast (4 cards more than normally, one of which is already in play - that's Tidings + creature for you).

Dilettante
02-15-2008, 10:15 AM
I only evoke the mulldrifter if I'm mana screwed and have no other choice. I think of the Evoke as the emergency ejection rather than a regular option. A 3:1 that leaves an equippable threat on the board and more question marks (Force?) on your opponents' mind is still condusive to the disruptive aggressiveness of the deck.

As for Chalice at 2... I'd have to smell out the matchup. If I am on the go and I have the option to do Chalice at 1, I go ahead and do it... If I am on the draw, depending on what I see, I may debate pulling up the reins and going for 2 instead. Generally, if I see white, red, or cantrips, my mind says 1. Otherwise, it's situational what I try to shoot for. On turn 2-3, I prefer to drop down a secondary threat or third if possible instead of an equip swing, saving that for the following turn, to try to fish out removal... but everyone has their preferences in play style. If your attacker gets sworded turn 2-3, you're not attacking till turn 4-5...

Media314r8
02-15-2008, 10:53 AM
I only evoke the mulldrifter if I'm mana screwed and have no other choice. I think of the Evoke as the emergency ejection rather than a regular option.

If I am mana screwed in FS, I generally don't have 2U to spend on a counsel of the sortomi. If by mana-screwed, you mean you only have 3U instead of 4U to hardcast a 2/2 flyer, you're playing the wrong format... I pay 2U for 4/3 flyers in FS. I pay 4U for 2/2 flyers that generate CA in limited and (sometimes*) in T2. The 'emergency ejection' is CoF cycling, as if you really are 'mana screwed' in FS, most likely someone killed your blue source or you mulled into a 4 card hand with a double land and a CoF hoping to hit a blue source. (this is why the deck used to run shorline ranger) If you are mana screwed in FS, you generally cant cast your threats (which all cost 2U save for sower) and drifter will likely sit dead in your hand. I'd honestly rather run shorline ranger for the purposes of hardcasting, as for an additional colorless, you get an efreet with no drawback, and if you actually ARE manascrewed, you can islandcycle him.

tldr; when mana-screwed: shoreline ranger > mulldrifter
when hardcast: shoreline ranger = mulldrifter (argueably, and depending on what equips are on board/if your opponent is playing bolt/fire)
with SoLS already equipped on a guy who's swinging: shorline < mulldrifter... but you are already f'ing winning if this is the case.

I really, really don't like the idea of hardcasting mulldrifter, as it only happens turn 3+ (more often turn 4+) and that late in the game, I want to be casting equips or using T mage to fetch/set chalices, not draw 2 cards for 4U. He really seems like a 'win more' card, as if you have a stable board position and 4U for a 2/2 flyer +CA... you are already winning.

@"A 2/2 flyer + 2 cards is a great deal":

a fact or fiction is a great deal, but at 3U, it's too slow for legacy, even in control decks! Drifter is about the same power level, but costs 4U, and dies to all removal in the format.
EDIT: oh, and its sorcerry speed.

Dilettante
02-15-2008, 10:57 AM
By mana screwed, I mean having to bet on forcing out City of Traitors early to power out Serendibs, Mages, and such while being forced to sit on 3-4 mana or simply only having that 3-4 mana instead.

Eldariel
02-15-2008, 11:34 AM
If I am mana screwed in FS, I generally don't have 2U to spend on a counsel of the sortomi. If by mana-screwed, you mean you only have 3U instead of 4U to hardcast a 2/2 flyer, you're playing the wrong format... I pay 2U for 4/3 flyers in FS. I pay 4U for 2/2 flyers that generate CA in limited and (sometimes*) in T2. The 'emergency ejection' is CoF cycling, as if you really are 'mana screwed' in FS, most likely someone killed your blue source or you mulled into a 4 card hand with a double land and a CoF hoping to hit a blue source. (this is why the deck used to run shorline ranger) If you are mana screwed in FS, you generally cant cast your threats (which all cost 2U save for sower) and drifter will likely sit dead in your hand. I'd honestly rather run shorline ranger for the purposes of hardcasting, as for an additional colorless, you get an efreet with no drawback, and if you actually ARE manascrewed, you can islandcycle him.

tldr; when mana-screwed: shoreline ranger > mulldrifter
when hardcast: shoreline ranger = mulldrifter (argueably, and depending on what equips are on board/if your opponent is playing bolt/fire)
with SoLS already equipped on a guy who's swinging: shorline < mulldrifter... but you are already f'ing winning if this is the case.

I really, really don't like the idea of hardcasting mulldrifter, as it only happens turn 3+ (more often turn 4+) and that late in the game, I want to be casting equips or using T mage to fetch/set chalices, not draw 2 cards for 4U. He really seems like a 'win more' card, as if you have a stable board position and 4U for a 2/2 flyer +CA... you are already winning.

@"A 2/2 flyer + 2 cards is a great deal":

a fact or fiction is a great deal, but at 3U, it's too slow for legacy, even in control decks! Drifter is about the same power level, but costs 4U, and dies to all removal in the format.
EDIT: oh, and its sorcerry speed.

I don't know what Legacy you're playing, but from all the lists I've seen, Fact is in basically every control deck and for a reason. Also, Mulldrifter is faster than Fact here. Whenever opponent plays heavy removal, drawing 2 and getting a threat keeps you coming and allows you to overwhelm their removal. Whenever I lose to Threshold or Landstill, it's because I run out of threats before they run out of removal. Mulldrifter keeps me in that game. If I cast a Mulldrifter on a stable board, I just got a new threat AND new cards for once it's dealt with. I could even hit the FoW to keep swinging.

When hardcast, Mulldrifter >>>>> Shoreline; Shoreline is a creature while Mulldrifter tends to be at LEAST two creatures. Simply, chaining Mulldrifters is going to break anyone's back. It's like Facting into Fact in BBS; opponent just cannot take the ensuing card advantage. It's the best addition the deck has gotten since equipment. The deck used to run Thirst for Knowledge et company to refill when you run out of threats, now you get refill and threat in one card. It's just incredible.

DrewliusMaximus
02-15-2008, 11:39 AM
Thanks Yamaelle for the response. I definitely see your points, and since more experienced Faerie Stompers than myself use 3 BtB, I'm assuming that you're right in saying that is the correct number. But for the record, here's why I asked:

Mainly from my experiences against Landstill, I wanted the redundancy to compensate for countered BtB's. I don't blindly attempt BtB's...I try to wait for tapouts or bait out counters beforehand, but especially if Standstill is already in play, FOW seems to get me too often. And since BtB is the "I win" card against what seems to be one of FS's worst matchups, I could imagine 4 being justified. Anyway, that was my reasoning.

Yamaelle
02-15-2008, 12:28 PM
@Media314r8: don’t worry I think we know how this deck plays. But beside “knowing how to play it”, have you been testing it in many tournaments ? With what results ? MWS testing counts, but tournaments results counts a little more.

Of course, your 1st Chalice will almost always be set at 1. Unless you face some monoB builts, or Loam decks for instance. But If you run 4, and 3-4 Trinket Mages (I put back the 4th one in SB), it is not uncommon to get a second one soon after. And in that case, I’ve been happy to be able to play it for 2 without the possible dead cards left (Jitte, or Looter in your built) issue.

For Mulldrifters, I think Eldariel answered. You really seldom evoke it, unless you have SoL&S online, or you’re in some tricky situation (read mana death most of the time), and you really need to draw 2. I really think Mulldrifters are a great addition to FS. I played it several time turn 2, (with the help of 2 Cloud of Faeries, so you do that one in a while, but it happens)
With FS, I almost never play my equipements if I cannot equip them the same turn (thus helping to avoid Needle too) So they “cost” 5, as Mulldrifter does. That’s also one of the reason why I believe Cloud of Faeries should never be cut from this deck. I guess the only exception is when I play against some Pikula-like decks, where an early SoL&S (even not equiped) will often set the game.

I know some still play 1 random Shoreline Ranger, but I’ve always disliked it in here. I’d rather go to 18 lands, what I ‘ve been doing since I adopted the deck, one year and half ago. I will never ever agree that hardcast ranger=hardcast Mulldrifter. You don’t keep a hand with this deck without a blue source, hence why I play 13 (mox included). Keeping a hand without blue source, because you have a ranger to fetch for one, seems a pretty bad move to me.

Fact was tested in the early version of FS, and clearly TfK was better. I now believe Mulldrifter is better than TfK. It seems I am not alone with this analysis.

As Eladriel wrote, your recent post make others wonder in what Legacy you play....

@DrewliusMaimus: I understand your point. The first time I lost in a turnament vs Landstill, getting crushed g1, winning g2 out of Winter Orb, and losing again g3 (only 1 Orb, and I lost the counter war), I was tempted right after to fit a 4th in SB. Currently, BtB>Orb, but it will be the same reasonning, mainly room. The other problem for me is I don’t have too many cards to remove vs Landstill. We usually need the BtB, some Needle, 1 EE, but I usually don’t want to remove 7-8 cards to the SB ... That’s one of the reason why I cut Misdirections SB too. I guess, as you said it, when you get more experienced with this deck, you will lean on 3. Landstill is a bad MU, but I am not sure I would say the worst. Post board it gets 50-50. If I recall well, I won 4 or 5 games out of 6 vs Landstill in tournaments. But with proper training, and not mulliganning into oblivion, it is totally winable. As sad as it sounds, I had more defeats in tournaments vs Gob, almost 50%, (I know I faced at least 1 every tournament except the Worlds 2006 side event, whose report is on the oppening thread of FS). Part of the reasons why I (still) have a lot of SB cards for this MU.

sroncor1
02-17-2008, 11:24 PM
I have been lurking on these boards for awhile now and after winning a 19 person (I know not huge) tournament today I figured I should put some of my experiences to paper. I will start off will the deck list. I want to note that with all the talk about SoLS vs. SoFI and jitte I decided to rune a 2, 2, 2 split to test them out. While I didn’t face goblins I have to say that the SoFI was the least effective of the bunch on the whole.
Creatures
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Sea Drakes
4 Trinket Mages
4 Cloud of Fairies
4 Mulldrifters
3 Pestermites
1 Shoreline Ranger
Spells
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Jitte
2 SoLS
2 SoFI
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
4 Force of Will
Mana
4 Chrome Mox
1 Tundra
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Seat of Snod
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Islands

Over the course of the game I played two CRET Belcher builds, TES, and a weird Landstill variant amongst others. The meta is a little random but there were some decks that were clearly tier 1. The SoLS won me two games on the day helping to swing the landstill match up in my favor as I was able to win the war of attrition for the first time and I even left my back to basics at home. The jitte was also key allowing me the versatility to handle many different threats. The only time the SoFI made an impact it seemed like it was a win more situation. I know there was talk about using the top in this deck but the two chalices definitely felt right. I almost always had them when I wanted them, but they weren’t clogging my hand up in games where they were not relevant. I will say this; I do think pestermite could use an upgrade. In my testing it was a house vs. tarmogofys and other big creatures, but today I found myself pitching it almost always. I agree with Yamaelle that misdirection just doesn’t seem to fit. At no point did I want to side it in today. Yeah bouncing a hymn back at your opponent is great but it just sort of seems like the deck is already good in those situations and the board space should be devoted to other cards to help the more difficult match-ups or the problem this deck has with dealing with some resolved threats. I tried oblivion rig in the board and I have to say it has showed promise as the artifact hate already has so many targets in the deck it just makes hard choices for your opponent. Sorry if this is long and rambling but I wanted to talk about some of the current issues with the deck and my testing over the past couple months. In a closing note I fought the Shoreline Ranger for a long time but the fact that it is a mana source/threat/pitchable makes it truly worth having in the deck because the more versatile the cards the more consistent we can make the deck.

EternalDragon09
02-28-2008, 08:11 AM
I have been lurking on these boards for awhile now and after winning a 19 person (I know not huge) tournament today I figured I should put some of my experiences to paper. I will start off will the deck list. I want to note that with all the talk about SoLS vs. SoFI and jitte I decided to rune a 2, 2, 2 split to test them out. While I didn’t face goblins I have to say that the SoFI was the least effective of the bunch on the whole.
Creatures
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Sea Drakes
4 Trinket Mages
4 Cloud of Fairies
4 Mulldrifters
3 Pestermites
1 Shoreline Ranger
Spells
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Jitte
2 SoLS
2 SoFI
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
4 Force of Will
Mana
4 Chrome Mox
1 Tundra
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Seat of Snod
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Islands

Over the course of the game I played two CRET Belcher builds, TES, and a weird Landstill variant amongst others. The meta is a little random but there were some decks that were clearly tier 1. The SoLS won me two games on the day helping to swing the landstill match up in my favor as I was able to win the war of attrition for the first time and I even left my back to basics at home. The jitte was also key allowing me the versatility to handle many different threats. The only time the SoFI made an impact it seemed like it was a win more situation. I know there was talk about using the top in this deck but the two chalices definitely felt right. I almost always had them when I wanted them, but they weren’t clogging my hand up in games where they were not relevant. I will say this; I do think pestermite could use an upgrade. In my testing it was a house vs. tarmogofys and other big creatures, but today I found myself pitching it almost always. I agree with Yamaelle that misdirection just doesn’t seem to fit. At no point did I want to side it in today. Yeah bouncing a hymn back at your opponent is great but it just sort of seems like the deck is already good in those situations and the board space should be devoted to other cards to help the more difficult match-ups or the problem this deck has with dealing with some resolved threats. I tried oblivion rig in the board and I have to say it has showed promise as the artifact hate already has so many targets in the deck it just makes hard choices for your opponent. Sorry if this is long and rambling but I wanted to talk about some of the current issues with the deck and my testing over the past couple months. In a closing note I fought the Shoreline Ranger for a long time but the fact that it is a mana source/threat/pitchable makes it truly worth having in the deck because the more versatile the cards the more consistent we can make the deck.
SoLS is not good at all in fact FI is so much better. And why are you only running 2 Chalice????? That is bad isnt Faerie Stompy suppose to lock your opponent out then cast a huge threat that they cant deal with?
My current list:
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
7 Island
1 Seat of the Synod

4 Serendib Efreet
4 Sea Drake
4 Cloud of Faeries
1 Shoreline Ranger
3 Pestermite
2 Trinket Mage
2 Mulldrifter (may become another Looter and something else)
2 Looter il-Kor (may become Mulldrifter and something else)

3 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 SoFI
2 Misdirection
4 Force of Will
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Pithing Needle
2 Psionic Blast

Board:
1 Phyrexian Furnace
3 Winter Orb
2 Tormods Crypt
3 Chill
2 Back to Basics
4 Propaganda

Misdirection is one of the best cards in the deck by far. It redirects that one answer they have for your guy or spell, think of it as running 6 Fow's (in an essence) yea its kinda nice.

sroncor1
02-28-2008, 11:01 AM
The reason that I used SoLS was just to get some more testing in on what other board members had already talked about. I did forget to post my sideboard and that is where the other two chalices where. I do not think misdirection should be in themain deck as that is just two many pitch spells. From my experience the deck is not as fast as its first build, as the format as slowed a few turns. As such I think those elements that allow us to win the long gameand wars of attrition might be more useful. In this sense I think SoLS is better than SoFI as the life gain matters. Bringing any creature back will also help exhaust most decks removal. Give SoLS a try and you will see that it is better than it looks paper. As to not running four chalices main, I think others have talked about this but in certain matchups, like landstill, dragonstompy, and random decks, chalice is not that good. Chalice for one does shut off some cards in the landstill matchup, but you need to first get a needle on deed as that is the backbreaker of the matchup, along with their card draw. Essentially having six chalices works just fine for my meta and then i can always bring in the others for games 2 and 3 versus combo.

coma
03-11-2008, 08:37 AM
I want to post a result of an "evergreen" old style build.
http://www.deckcheck.net//deck.php?id=14229
Thanks
I'm a romantic guy.

coma
03-14-2008, 04:43 PM
Hi guys...........Sorry for up!
I think new cards are different but not stronger than old card.
This card , like mulldrifter , sower of temptation and pestermite , combine to bring about an other kind of build with particular characteristic: slower than old style , but at ease in a slow meta ( control and aggro-control). It’s a question of singular predilection.
Because we can see some result with all kind of FS.
Bye and thanks

socialite
03-22-2008, 11:49 PM
Hi guys...........Sorry for up!
I think new cards are different but not stronger than old card.
This card , like mulldrifter , sower of temptation and pestermite , combine to bring about an other kind of build with particular characteristic: slower than old style , but at ease in a slow meta ( control and aggro-control). It’s a question of singular predilection.
Because we can see some result with all kind of FS.
Bye and thanks

I agree, although I haven't done much testing with one of these new builds.


On the note of Sower of Temptation; Personally I have always been a bigger fan of Control Magic over Sower of Temptation.

You can equip Sower and it has flying which is nice. I feel as though you have a far greater chance of running into creature removal, especially in game one, in Legacy than enchantment removal. Counterbalance could change that though.

Taurelin
03-23-2008, 05:53 AM
On the note of Sower of Temptation; Personally I have always been a bigger fan of Control Magic over Sower of Temptation....I feel as though you have a far greater chance of running into creature removal, especially in game one,

Sure, they have
- StoP and Bolt (which are effectively shut down by Chalice @1)
- Smother (which doesn't affect Sower due to CC4)
- XY Edict (where you just sac THEIR creature)
- 150 other removals which you can still FoW or Misdirect.

If you play Control Magic, they'll have
- Krosan Grip (which you can't even respond to). And they WILL board Grip in after seeing all your Chalices, Equipments etc.


My conclusion is that Sower is not only superior because of being a creature (winged + equippable), it is also superior for NOT being an artifact/enchantment. :wink:

socialite
03-23-2008, 11:51 AM
Sure, they have
- StoP and Bolt (which are effectively shut down by Chalice @1)
- Smother (which doesn't affect Sower due to CC4)
- XY Edict (where you just sac THEIR creature)
- 150 other removals which you can still FoW or Misdirect.

If you play Control Magic, they'll have
- Krosan Grip (which you can't even respond to). And they WILL board Grip in after seeing all your Chalices, Equipments etc.


My conclusion is that Sower is not only superior because of being a creature (winged + equippable), it is also superior for NOT being an artifact/enchantment. :wink:

Fair enough.

Seeing as you are an aggro deck, odds are they are going to side in more creature removal. Based on what you said would it be better to run the Sowers main deck and then side them out game two or just side in Controls game two?

I mean when it comes down to it I suppose I would rather just worry about the possible Krosan Grip they side in, which I can't do anything about to begin with. Odds are they would use on an early game Jitte or Swords.

Rather then having to worry about their creature removal + sided in creature removal as well as getting down a Chalice of the Void and having to rely on the four counters in my deck that I do not even see half the time as Mulldrifter and my draw step are my only means of digging through the library. I suppose you could argue that Sower makes for another creature to eat up their removal as a lot of games vs Landstill end up being who runs out of removal vs creatures first but it seems so counter productive when I could just use their creature as fodder for their own creature removal.

They both have their pros and cons, anyone else have any input?

Taurelin
03-23-2008, 12:58 PM
Seeing as you are an aggro deck, odds are they are going to side in more creature removal.

Which cards or rather which decks are you talking about? Let's take the ever-present UGw-Thresh, for example. They play 4 StoP main and... which other removal in the sideboard? Oh, but they WILL board in Grips because Chalice kills them.


Based on what you said would it be better to run the Sowers main deck and then side them out game two or just side in Controls game two?

I personally play 3x Sower main and NO Control Magics at all. Whether I side Sowers out or not depends on the Creatures my opponent runs, if any, actually.


Mulldrifter and my draw step are my only means of digging through the library.

You forget Sword of Fire and Ice and Looter Il-Kor (if you play him). The draw in FS is much more powerful than in other Stompy variants, as far as I can see.

This is also another point pro Sower and contra Control Magic. If you take over an opponent's creature with Control Magic, you shouldn't equip it with SoFI (prot blue). If you use Sower, you can equip either one of them.

socialite
03-23-2008, 02:38 PM
Which cards or rather which decks are you talking about? Let's take the ever-present UGw-Thresh, for example. They play 4 StoP main and... which other removal in the sideboard? Oh, but they WILL board in Grips because Chalice kills them.

I personally play 3x Sower main and NO Control Magics at all. Whether I side Sowers out or not depends on the Creatures my opponent runs, if any, actually.

You forget Sword of Fire and Ice and Looter Il-Kor (if you play him). The draw in FS is much more powerful than in other Stompy variants, as far as I can see.

This is also another point pro Sower and contra Control Magic. If you take over an opponent's creature with Control Magic, you shouldn't equip it with SoFI (prot blue). If you use Sower, you can equip either one of them.

Dragon Stompy runs Arc Slogger which has the ability to take out Sower of Temptation they also run Pyrokensis and REB in the side. Red Thresh runs Lighting Bolt, Fire and Ice, REB, and Pyroclasm in the side. Goblins runs Shreikmaw, SGC, WW, Pyrokensis, Mogg Fanatic, REB. Landstill runs Shreikmaw, Swords, Pyroclasm, REB. Loam runs Devastating Dreams. This is off the top of my head.

Now if I run Control Magic over Sower of Temptation, I don't have to equip the Sower with a SoFI just to reliable keep it in play.

Yes I forgot about Sword of Fire and Ice.

Also why would you ever not equip the Sower with the equipment? I mean I guess if you get two equipment in play and active but shouldn't you have won by then? Odds are Sower is going to be the better creature to equip then what you steal due to its evasion. Also in the case of Sword of Fire and Ice; I would assume it would be in your best interest to give the Sower +2/+2, pro red/blue, as that would make the Sower much harder to remove at least in the case of the decks I suggested, thus allowing you to keep their creature.

Edit: Also Looter is garbage for various reasons listed on this site and on other Faerie Stompy thread on other sites.

Taurelin
03-24-2008, 05:52 AM
Sure, they have
- 150 other removals which you can still FoW or Misdirect.



odds are they are going to side in more creature removal.


Which cards or rather which decks are you talking about? Let's take the ever-present UGw-Thresh, for example. They play 4 StoP main and... which other removal in the sideboard? Oh, but they WILL board in Grips because Chalice kills them.


Dragon Stompy runs Arc Slogger which has the ability to take out Sower of Temptation they also run Pyrokensis and REB in the side. Red Thresh runs Lighting Bolt, Fire and Ice, REB, and Pyroclasm in the side. Goblins runs Shreikmaw, SGC, WW, Pyrokensis, Mogg Fanatic, REB. Landstill runs Shreikmaw, Swords, Pyroclasm, REB. Loam runs Devastating Dreams.

Your last post is rather off track regarding the discussion we were leading above.

Dragon Stompy:
- Arc Slogger = maindeck material.
- Pyrokensis = point for U
- REB = equally a solution against Control Magic (also affected by Chalice @1)

Red Thresh:
- Lighting Bolt = maindeck material (also affected by Chalice @1)
- Fire and Ice = maindeck material
- REB = equally a solution against Control Magic (also affected by Chalice @1)
- Pyroclasm = point for U

Goblins:
- Shreikmaw = not a typical Goblins SB card. On the other hand, would you seriously use Sower or Control Magic in this matchup? Take over a Warchief? Or a Lackey? Or a Piledriver (damn, prot blue)?
- SGC = maindeck material
- Warren Weirding = You still choose which creature to sac. So you just sac THEIR creature.
- Pyrokensis = point for U
- Mogg Fanatic = maindeck material, doesn't kill a Sower on its own, also affected by Chalice @1
- REB = equally a solution against Control Magic (also affected by Chalice @1)

Landstill:
- Shreikmaw = lolz! Which creature in Landstill do you want to take over?
- Swords = maindeck material (also stopped by Chalice @1)
- Pyroclasm = red. Are you talking about UWBR-landstill? Never seen such a thing before. And vs UR or UWr you don't use Sower.
- REB = equally a solution against Control Magic (also affected by Chalice @1)

Loam:
- Devastating Dreams = stopped by Chalice@2, which you WILL put down to stop Loam.

Sorry, the only valid points I can see are Pyrokinesis and Pyroclasm. Both can still be FoWed, Krosan Grip still can't.




Now if I run Control Magic over Sower of Temptation, I don't have to equip the Sower with a SoFI just to reliable keep it in play.

Still, this can be a solution.


Also why would you ever not equip the Sower with the equipment? I mean I guess if you get two equipment in play and active but shouldn't you have won by then? Odds are Sower is going to be the better creature to equip then what you steal due to its evasion.

That's also beside the point. If the board looks like:
They: random fat creature
You: Sword of Fire and Ice

And your hand is:

a) Control Magic
-> You will have a random fattie and a useless piece of equipment

b) Sower of Temtation
-> You will have a random fattie AND a 2/2 beater with flying AND a choice between two creatures to equip.


A situation in which you might wish to equip their creature instead of yours is, for example, if you don't want to attack with Sower because they have also a big flyer in play (Exalted, Enforcer with Threshold, rakdos Pit Dragon).

Admitted, these are quite rare cases. But I feel that having options is mostly better than lacking them.




Edit: Also Looter is garbage for various reasons listed on this site and on other Faerie Stompy thread on other sites.

A sure, I forgot. Good argument. :rolleyes:

Eldariel
03-24-2008, 06:42 AM
The reason Sower was added is Sword of Light and Shadow. With that, the critical mass of methods to keep it in play has been reached and therefore it can be more efficient than Control Magic, albeit CM is still a decent sideboard option if you have the room. If you do not play Sword of Light and Shadow, it's probably correct to still opt for Control Magic - I originally discarded Sower as unplayable, but Yamaelle's addition of SoLS does indeed make it playable and strong even.

socialite
03-24-2008, 04:43 PM
The reason Sower was added is Sword of Light and Shadow. With that, the critical mass of methods to keep it in play has been reached and therefore it can be more efficient than Control Magic, albeit CM is still a decent sideboard option if you have the room. If you do not play Sword of Light and Shadow, it's probably correct to still opt for Control Magic - I originally discarded Sower as unplayable, but Yamaelle's addition of SoLS does indeed make it playable and strong even.

Thanks I was going to get to that and forgot. Should have started off with that seeing as how I do not play Sword of Light and Shadow in my build.

@ Taurelin07: I apologize for not making better sense. I was just listing cards off the top of my head that could get rid of Sower of Temptation either in the main deck or the side board of various decks. Im not quite sure where you play, but there tends to be more to my own meta then White Thresh and its 4 Swords to Plowshares.

I was trying to make the point that there are many more threats to the success of Sower of Temptation than that of Control Magic.

If they want to side in 4 Krosan Grip to deal with 6 Equipment, 4 Chalices (which by your account would be their main target for Krosan Grip), and 3 Control Magic then so be it. Id like to think 13 solid cards vs 4 removal cards is enough of a difference to reach critical mass and win the game.

As far as Looter, if you care to read, there are legitimate examples and opinions posted in this thread and on other sites such as TMD explaining why it is a poor choice. Here is one from a few pages ago:


I'm not liking Looter anymore even if I'd play SoLaS; I can constantly cycle Cloud and damn, Cloud gives you the acceleration to match decks like Dragon Stompy. Matches against that made me remember how fast Faerie Stompy is in the first place, so I'd rather not give that up. Besides, Looter has been nothing but glacial whenever I've tested it, and the inability to chump has hurt quite a lot in this meta.

That aside, what are peoples thoughts on Psionic Blast in the main deck. Currently I am running two but I am unsure of their potential. While the number of targets for the card has dropped due to over abundant use of Tarmogoyf, it still seems to be nice in speeding up my goldfish. What cards would be worth running in its place?

Taurelin
03-25-2008, 04:50 AM
@ Taurelin07: I apologize for not making better sense. ... I was trying to make the point that there are many more threats to the success of Sower of Temptation than that of Control Magic.


Alright, this is even a point I agree with. My point was simply that it's easier to deal with those threats than the answer(s) to Control Magic, and that Sower still has some additional advantages.


If they want to side in 4 Krosan Grip to deal with 6 Equipment, 4 Chalices (which by your account would be their main target for Krosan Grip), and 3 Control Magic then so be it. Id like to think 13 solid cards vs 4 removal cards is enough of a difference to reach critical mass and win the game.

I personally love to focus on the critters ftw. Chalice doesn't kill the opponent (alone). SoFi is no threat without a creature to equip. I play a build with a full 23 creatures. I count Drake and Efreet amongst the serious beaters, all other creatures serve some kind of Utility purpose, like Pestermite, Mulldrifter (substitute for TfK), also Sower then, and even Looter.


As far as Looter, if you care to read, there are legitimate examples and opinions posted in this thread and on other sites such as TMD explaining why it is a poor choice.

Looter is one of these utility creatures (CQ and filtering, stronger evasion than flying). And there are just as many arguments/opinions/forum-posts on how good he is.



That aside, what are peoples thoughts on Psionic Blast in the main deck.

Sure, it offers the only way to achieve a turn 3 kill in goldfish-mode. However, I believe that speed is not the most important issue we have to deal with. Maybe that's a question of playstile. I personally prefer a first turn Chalice in contrast to a first turn Sea Drake, for example.

Imho, Psi Blast has several disadavantages:
- takes up slots in which you can't run creatures
- doesn't always kill a Goyf
- the -2 add to the drawbacks of Tomb/Efreet/Force creating an even stronger Mono-U-Suicide feeling :wink: .

Eldariel
03-25-2008, 06:25 AM
Psionic Blast is good against control to give you a bit of reach, but worse against aggro where you don't especially want to take the damage. Still, killing a key Goblin Warchief is always good and there're other creatures that want to be shot. However, with more and more X/5s in the format, Psi Blast isn't what it used to be.

Also, you can still kill turn 3 without Psi Blast. You'll simply have less turn 3 kill hands. It's still:
Turn 1 Drake
Turn 2 SoFI
Turn 3 SoFI (with FoW thrown in there somewhere)

DrewliusMaximus
03-26-2008, 12:44 PM
Here's a question/thought about Yamaelle's decklist: can the number of SoLS's be cut to 3 (total equipment - 7)?

From my experience, an early SoLS isn't always so great, and maximizing the number of blue cards for mox/FOW is usually a good thing right? I'm trying a 4th Mulldrifter in place of the 4th SoLS, but I've also considered other arrangements.

I'm curious if anyone has strong thoughts for or against the idea of dropping the 4th SoLS from Yamaelle's list.

coma
03-26-2008, 04:22 PM
@drewlius: If you know the thought of yamelle , his concept of faerie stompy , you can not cut the 8th equippe.
For experience of great yamelle's results we haven't problem with blue card to pitch.
bye bye:smile:

sroncor1
03-26-2008, 06:32 PM
I think that the number of equipment can be dropped down to 7. To answer your question though it also depends on your build and the metagame you expect to see. SoLS gains strength with the more somers and muldrifters you use. I just don't like how the jittes have been dropped as in random aggro field, it still is a house. I do think though that 4 muldrifters is a must as the versatility and card draw they provide is unmatched by anything else available. In my meta the sowers are very strong ad the number of SoLS that I have used has crept up. I might be alone here but I have even toyed with dropping the SoFI in favor of jittes and SoLS. Yes I know the deck loses some speed, but in my testing these two pieces of equipment have helped me battle back from a losing position more often than SoFI. It may be do to my local meta but if I ever get out to a strong start I will win with the deck and as such SoFI loses some of its power because it just serves as a faster clock in games where the outcome does not seem in doubt.

Yamaelle
03-27-2008, 09:37 AM
Regarding Looter Il Kor, it was great in limited, but since Planar Chaos, I’ve always disliked it here. Shadow<Flying, especially when you need to block some fattie, I am trying to avoid cards with 2cc, and 1U is worst than 2U here, and it is a miserable topdeck. I know it is great with a SoFI, but so is every other creature of the deck. Some people like it in FS, but I think a majority of FS players don’t play it

Regarding the number of equipments as coma said, I would never cut the 8th one. But I think most people play 7, and it seems to work for them. I guess it depends how creature heavy the build is, but I am never happy to draw a second or third sword.

As for FoW, I don’t remember the last time I had a problem pitching a card to it (It has happened, of course). You cannot counter everything with this deck, sometimes pitching Fow on a Chrome Mox is the correct play. Yet, being an agro deck with (even little) optional free counter back up is huge.

coma
03-27-2008, 09:53 AM
The number of equippe depends on the will to play some utilities or creature with function of utility.
The number of utility , normally ( if we haven't a strategy to overuse it ), have to be the least to run the deck.
THe reasoning is : to draw a utility like removal or bouncer or other , i draw 2nd equippe ... and go!
Simple stategy bring to strong gameplane.
I think so!
bye

Brehn
04-01-2008, 09:25 AM
Let's jump on the bandwagon:

Swans of Bryn Argoll
2{W/U}{W/U}
Creature - Bird Spirit Rare
4/3
Flying
If damage would be dealt to Swans' Song, prevent that damage. The controller of the damage's source then draws cards equal to the damage prevented in this way.

I won't suggest any strange combo featuring Chain of Plasma or other red cards. This creature alone might be good enough to be included in FS:
- evasive beaters are good. This one has the body of a Sea Drake and doesn't have its drawback.
- Psionic Blast can read "Draw 4" now. Anything that reads "2U - Draw 4" is broken.
- This cards also reads: "Whenever a Tarmogoyf attacks you, prevent all damage it would deal this turn. Draw 5 cards". Have they ever printed a better Wall? <-- Uh, no. It sucks as a wall. That would have been hot...
- An active Sword of Fire and Ice can draw 2 more cards with Swans in play - often win more, but sometimes you might find the all-deciding Force of Will in those 2 cards
- Doesn't die to Smother like your other beaters. For Demise and StoP you still have Chalice @ 1. Looking at the list of commonly played removal that only leaves black cards (Shriekmaw, Snuff Out, Deed) and Wrath of God.

The obvious drawback is that you absolutely can't play him against decks with red. Lightning Bolt = Ancestral Recall, Gempalm Incinerator and Pyrokinesis = might as well scoop.
Also, it's been a while since I've tested FS so I have no clue whether its cost of 2UU fits in the curve well. What do you think?

Nihil Credo
04-01-2008, 09:34 AM
- This cards also reads: "Whenever a Tarmogoyf attacks you, prevent all damage it would deal this turn. Draw 5 cards". Have they ever printed a better Wall?
Your opponent would draw the cards. I had initially misread the card like that, and boy was I thankful to discover I was wrong.

Dilettante
04-01-2008, 09:41 AM
Let's jump on the bandwagon:

The obvious drawback is that you absolutely can't play him against decks with red. Lightning Bolt = Ancestral Recall, Gempalm Incinerator and Pyrokinesis = might as well scoop.
Also, it's been a while since I've tested FS so I have no clue whether its cost of 2UU fits in the curve well. What do you think?

Right now, I think I will stick with the current base of creatures and not try to add the Swan. It feels more and more like a 'win more' for what it offers. It doesn't fundamentally change the tide of a game like Sower of Temptation can. In Faerie Stompy, he's simply a 4/3 flying beater with a double-edged sword for at-cost power.

Eldariel
04-01-2008, 10:59 AM
He's good against red. I generally don't care about how many cards my opponent draws if he has no means to utilize those cards before he's dead. This is an immortal beater against red. That should be good. Still, I don't know if it's that good. Could be SB against red decks, but there isn't really room. I'm not sure if it's better than Weatherseed Faerie as it's so much harder to cast, even if it's twice as big.

I'm gonna pass for now.

Brehn
04-01-2008, 11:17 AM
I've been thinking for a while: Swans sucks as a defensive creature. It synergizes with Psionic Blast, another aggressive card. So what about playing a really aggresive build of FS? Off the top of my head:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Island
4 Chrome Mox
----- 22 mana sources. Don't know if this is ok, I'm pushing the curve really really high.
4 Sea Drake
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Swans of Bryn Argoll
4 Mulldrifter
4 Cloud of Faeries
----- 20 aggressive creatures. Trinket Mage is not aggressive.
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Force of Will
4 Psionic Blast
4 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Umezawa's Jitte
----- 18 good stuff cards. Chalice = MVP still, I guess.

Board: something along the lines of
4 Sower of Temptation
4 Thorn of Amethyst (<-- is that good?)
4 Back to Basics (<-- not sure about that one either)
3 Razormane Masticore (Aggressive. Check. Synergy with Swans. Holy fuckin' Check. Triple Phyrexian Arena ftw.)

This build looks very unconventional, it also looks like a lot of fun. Bad thing is that the cards I play are extremely mana-intensive. I'll do some testing with it.

socialite
04-01-2008, 03:45 PM
Personally I would rather have 3-4 Trinket Mage main deck allowing me to abuse a plethora of artifact utility then build an entire new shell around a mediocre beater in Faerie Stompy (Due to its casting cost, in my opinion). Not to totally shoot down your idea/deck but it just looks like you made a mildly inconsistent deck even more so.

I guess what I am looking for is a legitimate reason to run Swan over anything else, other then that he is a big beater.

Eldariel
04-01-2008, 04:05 PM
Brehn: That list looks horribly much like the ancient (think pre-CaNGD II) builds. The only difference is the using of Swan, which I can't really see that much better than Waterspout Djinn, Thought Devourer or others which all have been abandoned for a variety of reasons (ok, mostly because UU sucks, even more so without Trinket Mage and if you want to actually cast those UU spells most games).

Trinket Mage was added and believe it or not, it made the deck better, which is why it has mostly stuck. Now, granted, a more aggressive approach is possible (believe you me I've tried that, that's what my first builds were; pure mono-blue aggro), but really, you won't goldfish much faster and the lack of versatility really makes the deck into a 'beat or die'-style. I personally prefer the multiple gameplans the normal builds can assume depending on the hand and the opponent.

Until we get a strong 2U or 3U creature, I wouldn't suggest straight aggro-builds.

Brehn
04-01-2008, 04:27 PM
Truth. After losing 6 games in a row to Tempo Thresh I agree that this direction is a no-go. Swans + Blast falls very much under the category of "Danger of cool things". But it looked cool on paper...

Eldariel
04-07-2008, 04:29 PM
I'm liking the look of Curse of Chains thus far.

1{W/U}
Enchantment - Aura

Enchant Creature
At the beginning of each upkeep, tap enchanted creature.

Basically a blue Pacifism. Seems like it could be useful as a cheap removal-spell, perhaps on the sideboard. Either way, at least it gives us an option to run cheap removal that takes out a creature of any size. I feel it's worth testing for the Threshold-MU.

Phantom
04-07-2008, 04:44 PM
1{W/U}
Enchantment - Aura

Enchant Creature
At the beginning of your upkeep, tap enchanted creature.



Who's upkeep does it tap during? The person who played it, or the creatures controller?

Eldariel
04-07-2008, 04:46 PM
Who's upkeep does it tap during? The person who played it, or the creatures controller?

Pardon, at the beginning of each upkeep. I effed that up.

Nihil Credo
04-07-2008, 04:47 PM
1) It's "at the beginning of each upkeep". Which makes the card considerably better (they don't get one last hit).

2) Even with that, isn't Second Wind better for Faerie Stompy? The effect is the same, but IIRC Faerie Stompy likes to pay 2U more than 1U. You could also use Second Wind to give Vigilance to one of your creatures, although that would be a one-in-a-million situation.

3) Pity Fowl Play isn't legal.

Eldariel
04-07-2008, 04:54 PM
When the hell did they print Second Wind and why didn't anyone tell me? Anyways, it's an interesting question; Second Wind has the small 'untap'-theme and can be used to force damage through blockers the turn you play it. However, if the enchanted creature is powerful, it can be freed with Needle, which I suppose counts against it.

On the other hand, Curse of Chains is a bit cheaper so it can be Clouded out and cast off Mox/Island hands. I don't really know if either of them is good enough to play, but they seem handy vs. 'Goyf et al. as cheap removal. I think the lack of mana on Curse could be good though, since it allows you to play through Daze pretty easily; against Threshold you want to make sure they can't race so having a nigh' Daze-proof removal spell is good.

Maagler
04-07-2008, 08:21 PM
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=69118&stc=1&d=1207541751

Faerie stompy material? Might be good with all the equipment. No evasion though...

from Cairo
04-07-2008, 08:30 PM
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=69118&stc=1&d=1207541751

Faerie stompy material? Might be good with all the equipment. No evasion though...

No evasion and 2U>1UU... doesn't fit Tomb/City mana. I think Mulldrifter is stronger as far as card draw goes, and the other attackers (Efreet, Drake and Pestermite/Cloud of Fairies) are better at doing that end of things.

DrewliusMaximus
04-08-2008, 06:27 PM
A question for more experienced Faerie Stompers than myself:

Is the lone MD Pithing Needle untouchable?

I understand that if you see certain cards early on in a game 1 that you hold your Chalices and try to Mage for the Needle, but its a dead card quite often also (after blindly playing Chalice for 1).

Eldariel
04-08-2008, 07:00 PM
A question for more experienced Faerie Stompers than myself:

Is the lone MD Pithing Needle untouchable?

I understand that if you see certain cards early on in a game 1 that you hold your Chalices and try to Mage for the Needle, but its a dead card quite often also (after blindly playing Chalice for 1).

No, it's not. However, in an open meta you'd better be prepared than come with your pants down and Needle answers approximately 100 cards that would wreck you and that you lack answers for sans pre-emptive Chalice or Force, and in a known meta with any Survival-presence, it definitely should be there. Oh yeah, and Maze of Ith wrecks you and that's basically the only real Maze-answer available. Basically, Needle's there 'cause blue doesn't blast enchantments or lands. If you need to deal with neither, take it out. Heck, I took it out for the Finnish Legacy Champs. Of course, I played vs. Deed 4 rounds in a row, so I kinda kicked myself in the crotch (how does one even do that?) for that piece of brilliant stupidity. But yea, if you don't expect Deeds, Survivals and other stupid cards, go ahead and axe it. Same goes for EE, if you don't expect Empty the Warrens, Needles, Mongeese+Worships, Vials, etc. go ahead and axe it.

DrewliusMaximus
04-09-2008, 01:05 AM
Thanks for the advice Eladriel. While I haven't come across Maze of Ith in a while, I do understand that Needle is needed for major issues like Deed. What I am curious about is how much Chalice (especially 4 MD Chalice) and Needle are mutually exclusive. I guess if I knew I were in a meta with lots of Deeds, Wastelands, Survivals and not as much Thresh and Combo, I would have 3 Needles and maybe 1 Chalice maindeck. But if I am keeping 4 Chalices in the MD, and the metagame is open, I feel like I cut myself off from Needle fairly often by blindly Chalicing for 1 early on. Anyway, I guess the ability to handle cards like Deed and Survival retroactively in game 1 justifies the MD Needle and its occasional uselessness after an early Chalice.

coma
04-09-2008, 04:29 AM
I would make to congratulations to Ugo Tomat.
We start to see new yamelle's list is a good idea , this is a first confirmation.
http://www.deckcheck.net//deck.php?id=15111
thanks and bye