[Deck] Faerie Stompy

[Phantom]

Thanks for the advice Eladriel. While I haven't come across Maze of Ith in a while, I do understand that Needle is needed for major issues like Deed. What I am curious about is how much Chalice (especially 4 MD Chalice) and Needle are mutually exclusive. I guess if I knew I were in a meta with lots of Deeds, Wastelands, Survivals and not as much Thresh and Combo, I would have 3 Needles and maybe 1 Chalice maindeck. But if I am keeping 4 Chalices in the MD, and the metagame is open, I feel like I cut myself off from Needle fairly often by blindly Chalicing for 1 early on. Anyway, I guess the ability to handle cards like Deed and Survival retroactively in game 1 justifies the MD Needle and its occasional uselessness after an early Chalice.

Also, the decks where you lay and stick a Chalice @1 generally lose to you. You make one of your cards in your deck dead, and like a quarter of theirs dead. The decks that needle shines against (Survival, Rock, Landstill, DS) generally aren't that hurt by Chalice@1, and will often blow it up anyway.

Basically, the more you play the deck, the more you won't really notice the antisymmetry.

[DrewliusMaximus]

Good explanation Phantom. Thanks.

Also, I'm glad to see Yamaelle and his decklist doing well. I really enjoy playing that build.

[Dr. DOOM]

I saw this one on MTGsalvation:

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=68901&d=1207365035

2U casting cost, 1/3 flying, and it can hold off up to two of your opponents' creatures. And it's a common! Only drawback is that it needs equipment to make a real difference on the attack. Seems like an auto-include to me

[Clark Kant]

Hi guys...........Sorry for up!
I think new cards are different but not stronger than old card.
This card , like mulldrifter , sower of temptation and pestermite , combine to bring about an other kind of build with particular characteristic: slower than old style , but at ease in a slow meta (control and aggro-control).

I actually disagree, I think making the deck slower is the wrong direction to take.

Honestly, with the disappearence of goblins, the dominance of aggro control, a very fast aggressive build of this deck can womp on everybody and win the game before they know what hit them, while they are still stuck figuring out what to do with Counterbalances and all the other slow ass cards in their hand that don't effect us.

I think it would be a good time to post my build of the deck, one I've been playing for a while now to solid results...

Aggro Faerie Stompy

10 Island
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox

4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Sea Drake
4 Serendib Efreet
3 Cloud of Fairies
3 Pestermite
3 Mulldrifter
3 Infiltrator il-Kor
3 Maelstrom Djinn

Sideboard:
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 Chill
3 Ankh of Mishra
2 Winter Orb

Sideboard Cards I Wish I Had Room For:
Pithing Needle
In the Eyes of Choas
Misdirection

A couple of the cards I'm still not 100% on, but overall, the deck is very fast and extremely aggressive and has absolutely no problem outracing virtually every matchup save Storm/Ichorid. Those matchups are where the sideboard comes in.

I was playing Lightning Greaves because it gives me something to cast off a first turn Ancient Tomb (when I don't have a Chalice in hand). It then proceeds to give every one of my creatures haste and speed the clock up by a full turn atleast. But I'm going back and forth on the card.

Pestermite works well in untapping a guy as a surprise blocker to take out their attacker, or to tap a Goyf.

Infiltrator il-Kor is solid. It's a great two drop that gets around Mystic Enforcer to finish off the Thresh player. It's the second best card to play when you open with a first turn Chrome Mox, Island. The first best being Chalice of the Void obviously. A two drop that beats for the same amount as Efreet is nothing to scoff at. Remember, it comes into play with haste, so suspend 2 is really only a one turn delay, which is not bad at all.

Djinn is a great beatstick that hits for 10 damage and finishes off the opponent. It's like two ball lightnings on one card.

Cloud of Fairies is just there due to it's synergy with SOFI.

I may end up swapping out Mulldrifter or something else for Trinket Mage but so far, I really haven't missed Trinket Mage often.

[Dr. DOOM]

I can understand your point of view. What does your sideboard look like? I also like the 10 islands, that makes hardcasting a Mulldrifter or FoW easier and covers up for losing your City of Traitors when you need to play another land. Yesterday I played a tournament with a Aggro-loam and aggro-control meta and I played this build:

Mainboard:

4 Sea Drake
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Cloud of Faeries
3 Trinket Mage
3 Mulldrifter
3 Sower of Temptation
4 Chrome Mox
4 Force of Will
4 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
6 Island
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Volcanic Island
1 Seat of the Synod

Sideboard:

3 Back to Basics
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Weatherseed Faeries
3 Chill
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives

Although I did manage to steal a Phyrexian Dreadnought once with a Sower of Temptation:eek: , The sowers were too slow against Aggro-Loam and Black-based disruption builds, and I would have been able to race these decks with a faster version like the one you posted.

SoLS helps against black/white removal, but I did not really see much of that this time around, and the Trinket Mages were useful in the combo matchup but in the other games they did not hit the table very often.

[Clark Kant]

My sideboard has fluctuated a lot actually, but right now, it looks a little awkward...

4 Leyline of the Void - Just something I'm trying out. Was Tormod's Crypt.
3 Trinisphere - Combo, Thresh, any deck with lots of low cc spells.
3 Chill - Dragon Stompy, Goblins, Goyf Sligh, Burn etc.
3 Ankh of Mishra - Solid versus landstill, control. Insane versus thresh and any deck with lots of fetchlands.
2 Winter Orb - Solid versus landstill and control.

I would definately play In the Eye of Choas if I could afford the damn card.

I've been meaning to squeeze in 3 Pithing Needle somewhere, but can't figure out what to cut. I also would like to play some Misdirection versus Sui Black variants, but there's no room for that.

Back to Basics is solid, but it effects you too, and it's used versus the same decks than Ankh and Winter Orb screw over. Propaganda might be decent too, but I usually just tend to ignore the opposing creatures as I'm usually a lot faster.

I used to play Trinket Mage in the board, but came to realize that I was usually as well of boarding in Trinisphere in the same matchups instead (versus combo, thresh etc).

Here's my old build, still very solid...


Angry Fairies

// Lands
1 [MR] Seat of the Synod
8 [TS] Island
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [EX] City of Traitors

// Creatures
4 [UL] Cloud of Faeries
4 [FD] Trinket Mage
4 [RV] Serendib Efreet
4 [P2] Sea Drake
4 [FS] Maelstrom Djinn
3 [RV] Juggernaut
1 [SK] Pithing Needle

// Spells
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
3 [BK] Umezawa's Jitte

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
SB: 2 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 [SK] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [MM] Misdirection
SB: 3 [4E] Winter Orb
SB: 3 [UN] Weatherseed Faeries

[Dr. DOOM]

I would definately play In the Eye of Chaos if I could afford the damn card.


If you could afford it and play it, would you play it in the main? What would you drop for it? I think it's an idea worth testing, maybe even drop FoW and play In the Eye of Chaos.

As for your pithing needle problem, this is the sideboard I would run for your deck, but it's a metagame choice of course. However, I do think pithing needle is too good to be left out:

4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Trinisphere
3 Chill
3 Pithing Needle
3 Winter Orb

As for Ankh, I considered that too, but I don't want to kill myself with an Ankh and an Ancient Tomb in play. With agrro builds I brought myself down to 6 on a regular basis without the Ankhs...

[Humphrey]

Against which decks is Eye an autowin ?

[Dr. DOOM]

Should this card create an autowin condition in the first place? With Faerie Stompy, the cards that make you win are the creatures and the equipment, the rest supports that I guess.

It makes your opponents' FoW cost an extra 5, Krosan Grip's split second won't look as good anymore and it will cost 6 mana, and all the black and red rituals are less effective. What remains is the 1 cc instants like brainstorm and StP, but that's what you have Chalice of the Void for. Also, making the 2 cc instants cost 4 is nothing to sneeze at.

I also have a question: how does The Eye work with storm copies?

[Clark Kant]

I don't know about dropping FoW to maindeck it because that would be horrible versus goblins, 43 lands and lots of other random matchups that FoW shines against.

But I would definatley play 4 in the sideboard.

He is a very strong card a lot of decks in the format, and barely effects us.

[from Cairo]

I also have a question: how does The Eye work with storm copies?


Whenever a player plays an instant spell, counter it unless that player pays X Mana, where X is its converted mana cost.

The copies are just that, an ability on the card, they are uneffected. The spell is played and the player has to pay twice its cost to get that copy to resolve, the storm copies are not "played", they are triggered and thus are uneffected.

This is the same way the storm mechanic works with Chalice of the Void or Counterbalance, as they only trigger on played spells not copies.

[Humphrey]

I think Eye is a win-more card, since u have chalice 1 or 0 against Combo or Burn and Chalice 2 against Pikula and Counterspells.

But u can test it, its not that expensive anyway. Runs 10€ here.

[DrewliusMaximus]

Is it possible that 2 MD Trinket Mages is the right number?

I tried playing Yamaelle's build with -1 Trinket Mage, -1 Sower, +2 Pestermite. But another possibility is -1 Trinket Mage and +1 Sower/Mulldrifter.

Any thoughts on this?

[Yamaelle]

I really think Needle is a mandatory slot in the MD. Maze of Ith comes to mind, but sometimes it is versus a random Belcher, or Paralax Waves, or Time Vault, or Isochronic Scepter, etc. I agree none of these cards are “heavily” played, but they exist in the Legacy (huge) meta, and you sometimes encounter a few. And tutoring a Needle can save you g1s. I wouldn’t dare go into a tournament with FS without this even limited out.

As for the antisymmetry with Chalice=1, as Phantom mentionned, the more you play the deck, the less it becomes an issue.

@Clark Kant: I remember old discussions with you on the previous FS thread. And again, I think we will agree to disagree. I am glad you upped to 22 mana sources, but I think Djinn is horrible here, so is Looter. You cut your Trinket Mages (and the SB toolbox). Jitte is still very strong, but I prefer SoL&S instead. It is weird to see only 3 CoF, it is usually 4 or nothing. Having 2 early game can make crazy turn 2 starts.

As for the SB:
-4 Leyline of the Void: wtf ? Don’t you think this deck is “mulligan friendly” enough ? Would you risk mulliganing into a Leyline, as anyway I doubt you can hardcast it (you can if you have 2 Chrome Moxes with 2 other Leylines imprinted). Keeping a 4-5 card hand with a T0 Leyline is seldom the right play. It might buy you some time, provided you can play after. But usually, a CoV or a random bounce, and it is all over. What a horrible topdeck too....

-I’ve always think Trinisphere is win more in this deck, but since you cut the Trinket Mages, I understand you need something else vesus Combo than just 4 Chalices.

-Chill ? Which red decks do you want Chill versus ? I think it is a poor answer to Goblins, as they can usually cheat creatures into play. Burn being a bye, I wonder why Chills are in here.

-Ankh of Mishra is great card, and underrated nowadays in a world full of fetches, BUT I feel it has its place in some agressive built of slight. Not in a deck packing Tombs, Serendibs, FoWs, little life gain, and little blocking creatures. You usually finish with low life, and I think losing 2-4 life (and you play drake that sometimes bounces lands), can make the difference. On your opponent’s favor of course.

-Winter Orb is good SB card vs Control, but BtB>Orb right now. As you only play 2, with very little card draw, I hope you are either very lucky/skilled to draw them when they are needed.

-In the Eyes of Chaos, besides costing 2U, has close to nothing to do in this deck. Maybe, when Solidarity was very popular, like 1-2 years ago, but even back then, Chalice=1+Orb was enough. Even if U1 Legend, I guess it is crap rare, and it shouldn’t be very expensive to get. I am having a hard time trying to understand how you can praise this card in this deck. In which MUs would you need it ? As for dropping FoW for it, I hope no one ever does it.

-Pithing Needle. Okay, you cut the random one in MD (as you cut the mages, it makes sense in a way), but none in SB ? I now play 2 more in SB and there are a lot of MUs where I am happy to have one. Have you tested against Pox, or Death &Taxes, or Gob, or.... have you played any real tournament? I doubt you did, but if you have some secret tech I haven’t figured to overcome this without Needdles, I am all ears.

-Misdirections is a very good SB card, I cut them recently, but if I had the room, I’ll put them back.

-You don’t run EE. How do you handle opponent’s Needles on your equipments ? Or turn 1 or 2 EtW tokens, or Zombies from Ichorid, or Soldiers from Landstill (though, if Decree has been cycled already, good chances you lose this game whatever)

Last but not least, you run nor Control Magic nor Sower of Temptation. What do you do against a big creature successfully cast (Tarmogoyf, Exalted Angels, Contryside Crusher, any single creature in the mirror, Mystic Enforcer, etc) ? Of course you have 4 FoWs, but I doubt you can counter all relevant threats. I guess you just ”try” to race....

I know you wanted to build a very aggressive build, but it seems to me it lacks a lot of the elements that made FS a good deck. I am sorry, but this build and its horrible SB is like the worst build of FS I saw in a very long time. I don’t mean to be rude and I am happy if it works for you, but I felt some people might get the wrong assumptions from it.

I guess I “prefer” your so called old build. But still the lack of Trinket Mages, the very underwhelming Juggernaults& Maelstorm Djinns, the 5th SoFI in SB (I guess you meant Jitte) are not very attractive to me.


@Dr DOOM: Besides the option to EE for 2, we have very similar builds. Do not hesitate to SB out Sowers, as it is not relevant in all MUs. Trinket Mage is indeed golden versus Combo, why I put back a 4th one in SB. SoL&S is great vs ******** too, and Landstill, and anything playing Control....


@Drewlius Maximus : I guess you can reduce to 2 Trinket Mages, but you really want 4 in some MUs (basically, vs Combo). So if you can squeeze them in SB, why not cut some from the MD. I would however play Trinket Mages before Pestermite any time in this deck.

[DrewliusMaximus]

Probably a good call against the Pestermites Yamaelle.

They don't work quite as well as I thought. But I did like the minor adjustment that increases the amount of 3cc flying equipment carriers by 2. Also my limited meta has wonderful amounts of Goblins as of right now, so I'm trying 2 MD Weatherseed Faeries (this means my MD is the same as Yamaelle's with -1 Trinket Mage, -1 Sower, +2 Weatherseed). The SB I thought I'd try with it is:

1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Sower of Temptation
2 Trinket Mage
3 Sea Sprite
3 Back to Basics

Criticism is welcomed...

[Clark Kant]

Yamielle, I don't see why playing control magic/sower is absolutely needed. This decks threats come out on turn one, are big, and fly over Goyfs to win the game before you have to worry about their threats. Worst comes to worst, you can tap your opponents creature with Pestermite, or untap Djinn for a surprise blocker.

Looter? Where in either build do you see Looter?

And are you really attacking me over my sideboard.

Ankh of Mishra can be played turn one and completely screws over any landstill (landstill plays tons of fetchlands each of which costs them five life, a fourth of their life total and it needs to play a lot of land to get going). Ankh screws over any control deck, and any deck with tons of fetchlands as well (threshold). B2B can be played around easily. Good builds of thresh play basic lands to make sure they aren't effected by B2B. Ankh can't be played around. This deck needs only 2 lands in play to do what it does for the most part, three lands at most. In the matchups you bring Ankh in, it hurts your opponents a 100 times worse than it hurts you.

Chill is awesome against any deck with a decent amount of red, goblins, dragon stompy, burn etc.

I play Tendirls because it gives me an autowin against ichorid and combo, a matchup that can play around both chalice and crypt.

Trinisphere is great against so much threshold, combo, burn, 9 land stompy and several others.

Winter Orb I shouldn't even have to justify.

Basically play what you want in your board to help you in the matchups you face.

But to critique someones sideboard when the sideboard is 100% meta dependent is pretty idiotic.

[coma]

Every card is a personal choice , is a preferred card for many reasons , and I respect that.
We also have to talk , about cards , with the biggest objectivity, to the optimal choice (in this time).

@drewliusmaximus:You play a good and balanced side , I like it very much.
About 2x trinket … normally need to play with at least 3x , but if you haven’t problem with 2x , it’s your right number.
If you want to play with weatherseed f. , I suggest to play (may be ) -1 efreet -1 sower , but it’s an idea.

@clar kant:The strength of fs is possibility the play (thank to triket ) one of the strongest of legacy defence card : cotv. I don’t understand honestly as you don’t need to cotv.
You don’t need to play some draw effect even if fs wasn’t a mulligan friend.
There isn’t a very strong combo deck (like was the flash deck), to justify an extreme choice like leyline of void. For the others combo deck normally we have a lot of solution.
About side versus control :
I test ankh , orb and btb.
Ankh is very amusing , but strong only in opening hand .
Orb and btb are similar card with similar effect , but with btb>orb for obvious reasons.
I think btb is strong in early, mid and especially in late game , and it is a boon for fs ‘s side , because (if you play in right time) it enable to capsize our worse mu.

I only suggest you to play some draw effect to make right bad hand.
I agree with you when you claim side is 100% meta dependent , but remind that if you play in a very competitive meta (so with a big number of players and you don’t know players-decks-etc.and you can only presume the meta), you have to build a balance side with a very ductile cards.
Instead if you play with your friends , with the usual 20 players about , that one I have just written isn’t worth.

Thanks and bye

[Dr. DOOM]

I have a question about one particular matchup: how to beat Pikula and Eva Green and similar deck types? If someone can help me this I would be grateful because this matchup is driving me nuts.

1 How to play Chalice? I know chalice @ 2 shuts them down, but the chalice gets often discarded to a duress then while I'm waiting for the mana. Chalice @ 1 is also a good play, but I often lose to hymn to tourach, sinkhole and wasteland then.

2 What sideboard options would be the best, both on the play and on the draw.

3 What strategy to follow, for which card would you try to mulligan, what to play first, etc.

[Versus]

Besides the aformentioned Chalice @ 1 and 2, Misdirection is your best SB option against black discard I think.

[DrewliusMaximus]

Coma (or anyone else who has an answer),

Do you prefer (at least) 3 MD Trinket Mages for the increased chance of a turn 2 Chalice, or for the increased access to the Needle, or just overall flexibility?

I am just trying the 2x Trinkets MD because I'd like to see if a slightly more aggressive strategy game 1 works for me.

[coma]

@dr doom: depends to your side , best side card against discard deck is mis-d.
best cotv @2 .
@drewliusmaximus: depends what you need.Trinket is a fantastic card :3x at least, to play cotv on turn 2.
Rarely I play beast on turn 1 if I don't know opponent's deck.
Perfect gameplane is
cotv 1 turn 1
trhead turn 2
eqippe turn 3
Without cotv in play fs is less strong.
I think so.
bye bye

[Clark Kant]

I revised my list, here is what I'm now running...

Aggro Faerie Stompy

1 Seat of Synod
9 Island
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox

4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Pithing Needle

4 Sea Drake
4 Serendib Efreet
3 Cloud of Fairies
3 Trinket Mage
3 Mulldrifter
3 Infiltrator il-Kor
2 Maelstrom Djinn

Sideboard:
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Pithing Needle
2 Winter Orb
2 Ankh of Mishra
2 Back to Basics
2 Chill
2 Misdirection

What do you guys think?

Cloud of Fairies are perfect as 3 ofs. I absolutely hate seeing two in my opening hand. They help me play accelerate out my real threats, but do crap by themselves. Trinket Mage and Mulldrifter are also cards that I hate seeing multiples of in my opening hand, or early on. Pestermite while useful sometimes was worthless at other times and I generally didn't think it was as good as what I could run in it's place.

Infiltrator and Djinn provide well needed additional clocks should Drake and Efreet not be enough. Infiltrator has the bonus of getting thru to deal damage even when your other threats are locked down by an opposing Tombstalker or Mystic Enforcer.

The sideboard may look inconsistent and is still experimental, but the cards work very well together.

Against 3cc/4cc landstill for example, you can attack their manabase by bringing in 2 Winter Orb, 2 Ankh and 2 Back to Basics. All three cards are bombs againt the deck, they work very well together (if all their lands are tapped, they have to play more lands and thus take damage to Ankh), and B2B and Orb are useless in multiples, where as by varying them, you never have to worry about that. And lastly, Orb can be brought in versus Mono Blue Control and Mono Black Control, matchups that B2B is completely useless against. Ankh is very strong against control decks even if they don't hit the board till mid game or so. Control decks need their land drops. But early on, Ankhs are insane against control decks, esp those playing fetchlands.

[Clark Kant]

If you guys ever get bored of playing the regular old build, here is an extremely inconsistent but extremely fun and teched out build with a litiany of combos that should simultanously confuse both yourself and your opponents.

Vaka Combo Fairies

// Lands
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [OD] Island
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [EX] City of Traitors

// Creatures
4 [CK] Painter's Servant
4 [RV] Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 [RV] Serendib Efreet
4 [P2] Sea Drake
2 [MR] Trinket Mage

// Spells
4 [6E] Brainstorm
4 [DS] Stifle
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [MR] Fabricate
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
3 [TE] Grindstone
2 [TS] Vision Charm

Vision Charm serves double duty in not only comboing with Dreadnought but also protecting your other artifacts by phasing them out in response to removal. That's why I opted to run it over Trickbind.

[DrewliusMaximus]

I am wondering how many people are using the 2 fetch land / 1 dual land vs the all basic islands manabase.

I know that it probably depends on how much blood moon people expect and other factors, but...

[Yamaelle]

@Clark Kant: Sure, your SB is meta dependant, as all SB. But unless you really have the weirdest meta ever, I cannot believe that running in The Eye of Chaos and Leyline of the Void in FS can be close to a good choice. If this list works well for you, it is great.

When you say Chill is great versus anything Red “goblins, dragon stompy, burn etc”, it is true it is a good card vs Red. But given, Goblins have both Vial and Lackey to cheat creatures into play, Chill does not seem optimal to me vs Gob (I might run Propaganda before it). Vs Dragon stompy (which should be a bye for FS as their disruption is almost not relevant, you run proR dude, more creatures, more equipment and even if limited, real card draw/CA), I’d much rather have a Sower to borrow the fattie, then that. Vs Burn, It might help as they run few lands, but you usually win it with Chalices/Trinket Mages. When I used to run Misdirection in SB, I wouldn’t even fit them in post SB, as it was win more. The MU is that good.

Winter Orb is great in SB, true. Hence why you run a big 2 of them with nothing to tutor for them (in your latest “aggro faeries” built).

I think it should be obvious why Ankh of Mishra shouldn’t be in this deck, even if it is great vs Landstill, so is Orb/BtB ( And they will shine in a lot more MUs).

I think Coma tried to explain you the same thing as I did. Maybe more diplomatically than what I did. However, when I said your list was the worst I had seen in a looong time, I meant it. I don’t go that overy often on The Source, this days, but when I see your last post, I am happy to see you revised it.


I much prefer the “revised” list (post 522). I would squeeze the 4th CoF though. I don’t understand how you can not like having 2 CoF in opening hand. With any 2 mana lands, it means 5 manas on turn 2. And that can be a lot of things (Chalice=2, any equipment+mana to equip, hard casted Mulldrifter... ). Sometimes I really wonder if we play the same deck (FS) in the same format (Legacy).

Infiltrator does have Shadow, but 3/1 makes it quite vulnerable, Shadow is not that great in this deck (it cannot block if needed). Unless suspended on turn 1 with a Mox, I am not sure it is a good creature you want to draw.

Regarding your SB, I think there is just one thing missing: In FS, with little draw/tutors, (besides Trinket Mages for those who haven’t cut them), and assuming you fit some cards from SB because you want to draw them, you usually need more than 1-2 copies of a card to hope drawing it. 3 sounds like the minimum quantity, and yet it is sometimes not enough. Most of us chose to run BtB instead of Orb & Ankh as it is the most efficient nowadays. Ankh is really narrow in SB here. You cannot use it versus anything with a minimum clock. Which a lot of decks have. For me, SoL&S helped a lot Control MUs. I agree vs MonoU Control & MonoB Control, Orb>BtB. As you sticked with Jittes, I understand why you also want Orb in SB.


“The Vaka Combo Faeries”
As soon as the text of Dreadnough was changed, people started adding the combo in the FS shell. Which looks good, but the problem is you lose Chalice, and you also increase the inconsistency.

The prerelease of SHA being quite recent, I admit you’re the 1st one I see adding the Servant/Grindstone combo to this deck. It is a sweet combo, but I wouldn’t run it as a combo deck, but rather as a finish in some more Control builds. The 2 combos go well together, but you lose Chalices, reduce the clock(I know Dreadnough is 12/12, but it’ll take Stp/Smother/whatever, you run no protection besides FoW, and you had to cut the equipments to fit Grindstone, stifles,etc), increase the pain (6 Fetch, Efreets, Tombs, FoWs, and NO life gain at all) and increase the inconsistency. So I agree it looks fun, but for casual at best. By the way, I would run 4 Trinket Mages in here (get Grindstone if you have Servant, Dreadnought if you have Stifle, etc). It might be a step towards the long way to reduce the inconsistency. Vision charm is good in this deck.


@DrewliusMaximus:
It is not really that much the fear of Blood Moon that prevents me from running the random dual+2 fetchs. Only DS run it, and the MU is already incredible. It is rather Wastelands, and reducing the number of real lands in the deck (run fetch). I would even run Conclave before that. I lost some games in tournaments on a early Wasteland on my single blue Source. So I always try to maximize the number of basics here. I don’t have room for a EE in MD, and I prefer borrowing goys, rather than play EE for 2 once. How to handle the 2nd Goyf after EE has been sacrificed btw ? Academy Ruins ? :laugh:
But I see more list with the fetches than without.....

[Clark Kant]

The only difference between my old build and new build is...

I cut the Pestermites for 3 Trinket Mages and a Pithing Needle. So I don't see how you can call the previous build the worst you've ever seen :laugh: and yet like the new one.

I'm not a fan of seeing 2 Cloud of Fairies in my opening hand because by themselves they are just 1/1 flyers. I much prefer to see real clocks, 3/4 flyers, 4/3 flyers, 3/1 shadow guys to Cloud of Faries. I like them as getting you that one last mana you need to play a spell that you don't have the mana for, but I really hate having two of them take up the slots of creatures that are actual clocks in my opening hand.

It's okay to have multiple 2 ofs in the sideboard when they all have very similar effects.

It actually makes it harder for your opponent to play around your board. Your opponent can fetch all basics anticipating B2B, only to be locked down anyways with a Winter Orb.

Ankh, Orb and B2B all attack control decks that want multiple land drops. But they do them from slightly different sides. An Ankh on the board makes your opponent really think about playing the fetchland in their hand, because using it eats up five of their lives. Yet, by playing the nonbasics in their hand rather than fetching for basics, they open themselves up to Back to Basics. And Orb supplements either of the other two cards on the board perfectly.

Winter Orb and B2B in multiples do nothing. And this does happen esp against long games of attrition against landstill. But having both an Orb and a B2B and an Ankh on the board is tech.

Your opponent can play around Misdirection when you don't have it, or be caught off guard by it because you run only 2 so they didn't see it before.

So I recommend actually trying that strategy out before deeming it the worst list you've ever seen. lol.

[Yamaelle]

Aggro Faerie Stompy

10 Island
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox

4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Sea Drake
4 Serendib Efreet
3 Cloud of Fairies
3 Pestermite
3 Mulldrifter
3 Infiltrator il-Kor
3 Maelstrom Djinn

Sideboard:
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 Chill
3 Ankh of Mishra
2 Winter Orb

Sideboard Cards I Wish I Had Room For:
Pithing Needle
In the Eyes of Choas
Misdirection



I revised my list, here is what I'm now running...

Aggro Faerie Stompy

1 Seat of Synod
9 Island
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox

4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Pithing Needle

4 Sea Drake
4 Serendib Efreet
3 Cloud of Fairies
3 Trinket Mage
3 Mulldrifter
3 Infiltrator il-Kor
2 Maelstrom Djinn

Sideboard:
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Pithing Needle
2 Winter Orb
2 Ankh of Mishra
2 Back to Basics
2 Chill
2 Misdirection




The only difference between my old build and new build is...

I cut the Pestermites for 3 Trinket Mages and a Pithing Needle. So I don't see how you can call the previous build the worst you've ever seen :laugh: and yet like the new one.

[stuff]

So I recommend you actually try that strategy out before deeming it the worst list you've ever seen. lol.


If you dare say the only difference between your 2 lists are only -4 Pestermites for 3 Trinket Mages+1 Pithing Needle, I advise you to urgently go for some glasses. I’ll give you a hint, look at the SB. Your SBs.

And you can quote me on that, the above list (post 504) is the worst FS list I saw in a long time. I don’t recall seeing a worst as a matter of fact, but I don’t want to appear rude, and there surely must be some worst somewhere on this galaxy. So I’ll stick to the worst I saw in a long time....

[Clark Kant]

And I suggest you get yourself a bottle of ginseng or whatever it is that's supposed to improve your memory.

I've already stated on multiple occasions my reasons for running the sideboard cards that I do, the resilient combo decks that I play against often that made it worthwhile for me to run Leylines in the board even with maindeck Chalices

I've stated on multiple occasions that the cards you run in the sideboard should be determined entirely on the matchups that you play against.

But really, that should be common sense without me even having had to say it in the first place.

Calling a list the worst you've seen almost entirely because you don't think their sideboard choices would work in your particular meta is beyond idiotic. And that's a fair assessment of what you said considering that you just stated two posts above this one that you like my build once I replaced the Pestermite with Trinket Mage and made the sideboard changes that go along with Trinket Mage (having some 0cc and 1cc spells in the board that work with the Mages).

So it seems to suggest that either you take the crazy view that sideboards shouldn't be metadependent, or you consider Pestermite to be one of worst cards anyone could run in this deck, since getting rid of that one card changed the deck from the worst build ever to a build that you liked.

[Yamaelle]

Metagames are different. But I assume you run Leyline mainly vs Ichorid, Cephalid Breakfast, (maybe Thresh ? When I see your lists, I really wonder whether you could/would do that...). Do you think you are the only one facing these decks ? The answer is no. Other people run Trinket Mage, EE, Tormod’s crypt, etc... Maybe these decks are overrepresentated in your meta, it happens. Yet, Leyline that you almost cannot hardcast, and that you need to agressively mulligan for in order to be useful, is bad. Especially in a deck whose main weakness is inconsistency, and that is mulligan friendly.

I reckon you might steal some g2 against Ichorid if you start with t0 Leyline and the opponent left bounces in the SB (you’re supposed to be monoU), but It will only buy you some little time otherwise. And unless you were lucky to get Leyline out of your original 7, plus lands and everything you need, the little time gained will have been at the expense of the rest of your overall strategy. Repeating over and over your meta is so special that you need the SB Leylines in FS won’t convince me. Even if you say it 10 more times. Those 4 SB slots could really be something more relevant. Even as graveyard hate.

I quoted you above to show your bad faith, pretending you only changed Pestermites between the 2 lists. I guess I understand why you‘d rather react on something else. Last but not least, I didn’t say I really liked your list, I said I “much prefered” it to the previous, which is true. Given the first one is so bad, it wasn’t very difficult to find something better. I hope you can understand the difference. It is kind of fun I have to explain you this as English is not my mother tongue, whereas I am pretty sure it is yours.

Anyway, this disscussion is not really contributing to the thread, so I guess I’ll stop there. I guess keep advocating/playing sub-par builts. And I don’t only say that because of your SB. If ever you win a tournament with this, I’ll be the first one to congratulate you. I guess I needn’t give my opinion on the probablity of such a feat..... Good luck anyway, you’ll need it :laugh:

[Clark Kant]

So pray tell, how often do you play face Ichorid in your meta? If you can find me a build that slaughters Ichorid and my meta generally with anywhere near the same consistency that my build does, I'll give you a cookie.

You are right, this is getting tedious going back and forth, with you suggesting that everyone should play the same sideboard cards as you regardless of what matchups they face, and me stating the blatantly obvious fact that sideboards should be dictated based on your matchups.

Honestly though, I do find your pompousness kind of amusing, it certainly suits your icon:laugh:

[DrewliusMaximus]

It is not really that much the fear of Blood Moon that prevents me from running the random dual+2 fetchs. Only DS run it, and the MU is already incredible. It is rather Wastelands, and reducing the number of real lands in the deck (run fetch). I would even run Conclave before that. I lost some games in tournaments on a early Wasteland on my single blue Source. So I always try to maximize the number of basics here. I don’t have room for a EE in MD, and I prefer borrowing goys, rather than play EE for 2 once. How to handle the 2nd Goyf after EE has been sacrificed btw ? Academy Ruins ?
But I see more list with the fetches than without.....

I'm glad to hear you say this Yamaelle. I felt like the fetches/dual were doing me more harm than good, but I was also seeing more and more builds using them. To me, the slightly less stable manabase, and even the extra damage from fetches were noticeable. And when I was boarding in the EE, getting 2 colors wasn't super reliable either. Is there anyone who IS using the fetches/dual manabase that swears by it?

[Clark Kant]

I agree. Legacy players tend to go a little splash crazy just because it's so easy to do with fetches and duals.

But really splashing a color opens you up to...
Stifle
Wasteland
Blood Moon
Back to Basics

and even random cards like
Price of Progress
Ankh of Mishra

That's not to say splashing is a bad idea. Just that splashing should only be done when the color added adds something of signficant value to the deck or fixes a defecit.

This is the perfect example of a deck that has no reason to splash a color.

[DrewliusMaximus]

Hey Yamaelle,

You said that you were sideboarding a 4th Trinket Mage now...would you mind posting your sideboard?

[coma]

@drewliusmaximus:
Yamaelle's post Lorwyn FS deck

4 City of Traitor
4 Ancient Tomb
9 Island
1 Seat of the Synod
4 Chrome Mox

4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Sea Drake
3 Trinket Mage
3 Sower of Temptation
3 Mulldrifter

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Pithing Needle
4 Force of Will

SB:
1 Pithing Needle
2 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Back to Basics
4 Silent Arbitrer
3 Sea Sprite
1 Sower of Temptation

[DrewliusMaximus]

Thanks Coma. I do remember that list, but I thought Yamaelle mentioned that he was now sideboarding a 4th Trinket Mage, so I was wondering if it changed at all.

I've come across Belcher more recently so I like the idea of a 4th available Trinket...just looking for SB ideas.

[Versus]

I'm I the only one left who just can't seem to let the Psi-Blasts go?! Everytime I use the deck I say I'm gonna take them out, then don't.

[DrewliusMaximus]

I would still use Psi-Blasts if I was playing the build that uses Jittes instead of SoLS's.

[Versus]

I have to say it's the most frequently pitched card in my deck. I never use it for removal, I always wanna save it for the finisher. However, I don't think I've ever got my opponent to 4 or less life while holding one, so it's kinda pointless (for me) to run it. Yet I do...

Time for a change maybe. I am warming up to Sower.

[BreathWeapon]

Just curious, have other people tried running an Ornithopter in the deck to turn Trinket Mage into an evasive beater in the 4+ Swords version?

[Dr. DOOM]

Is there anyone who IS using the fetches/dual manabase that swears by it?

Of all the 40+ games I've played so far with FS at tournaments, I have succesfully cast Explosives @ 2 only once :eek: But with great results against Slivers. On the opposite side of that:

- Death by fetch: around three or four games, usually with a Serendib Efreet in play later on.
-Death by opponents' land destruction: In every Pikula/Eva Green/MBA type matchup, about 8 matches with 0-2 loss as a result.

So I moved the explosives to the sideboard and play basic islands now + one Seat of the Synod.


@dr doom: depends to your side , best side card against discard deck is mis-d. best cotv @2 .

Thanks! I played a small tournament this week, and because of my local metagame I took out chill (never used it) from the sideboard and replaced it with 3 misdirection. A misdirected sinkhole and BtB midgame won me the game. Chalice @ 2 is difficult to pull off sometimes against discard, but I managed to do it and that also won me a game.


I'm I the only one left who just can't seem to let the Psi-Blasts go?! Everytime I use the deck I say I'm gonna take them out, then don't.

I am considering putting them back in, but haven't figured out how to do it yet. I used them quite a few times to finish a game and I miss them sometimes.

[coma]

@drewliusmaximus:-psionic is very fun card , but not practice , because only vs control deck is grat card , in other mu the only use for it is early-pitched-card.Personally I play 4x trinket and I win many match for his skill in main deck and is stregth for sb...when you side 1 e.e. is same to side 5 e.e., 1 crypt like 5 crypt... this is the fantastic skill of trinket : great card for md and more for sb.
@drdoom:vs black deck is a particular mu you have to play with brain:
example... if I have in my hand a card like mis-d , i play cotv at 1 , because i wait a tourach or sink hole or vindicate and if oppo play a creature in the deck i have control creature.
Cotv 2 is strongest cast but is not the first .Depends to your opening hand.
bye

[Yamaelle]

@DrewliusMaximus: My current SB sideboard is what coma wrote, with -1 Arbitrer, +1 Trinket Mage. Against combo decks, I was really missing the 4th Trinket Mage. I really also wanted to keep the 4th Arbitrer, but I had to take a decision.


@Versus: Psy blasts in FS have their supporters. It is a card that is very often suggested/mentionned in this thread. I‘ve never liked it in here, others including Eldariel have always been playing it as a 2-3 of. (Feel free to correct me if you read this Eldariel, and you cut them). If you don’t like running too many equipments, it might be a good substitution. But I really believe it has never been mandatory in this deck, nor ever will. You might regret not running it when your opponents wins at very low life, but I guess every one that has run some Psy blasts in this deck would admit pitching them way too often. I did run 4 in some aggro build of Faeries in T2, and I also agree having some reach is great in an aggro deck. I just feel other cards are more important here.

I’ll suggest you to try Sowers if you haven’t yet. It is a good faerie...


@Breathweapon: I haven’t tried back running Ornithopter, with the 8 swords shell. I tested it a while ago, and felt it was a horrible topdeck, useless without equipment (it is obvious, I know, but sometimes you don’t have the equipments). And honestly, I am very often happy to fetch some more chalices, or mana sources with Trinket Mage (or SBed cards after g1) I guess having the option to fetch for a “beater” is supposed to help, but I wonder how often this will be relevant. I saw some people running 1 random Bonesplitter (the 1cc equipment) for the same reason. But I think it dilutes the deck more than anything.


@Dr DOOM: Thanks for the feedback regarding the Fetch +EE in MD in tournaments. I reckon it looks great vs Slivers, but this greatness has a cost indeed. I guess everyone agrees on the stable manabase. How come almost all the lists we see online keep playing that ?

Regarding Chill in SB, I always found it useless too. But it seems to work for Clark Kant...

If you have room, Misdirection is great in the SB. Misdirecting a turn 2 Sinkhole/Tourach can give games. Besides being overkill vs Burn, it is also useful against counters (you can misdirect an opponent’s counter to counter Misdi) in some Combo decks (Solidarity) or Controll (Landstill). If your meta is really Black heavy, it is really a good SB card to consider.

Against B disruption decks (be it Pox, Pikula, whatever ), Chalice=2 is really your goal. If you haven’t cut the Cloud of Faeries, there are many different hands that can lead to t2 Chalice=2 (t1 Tomb, t2 City - dangerous without Mox though - ; t1 island, t2 Mox+Tomb/City ; t1 Island, t2 Tomb/City +CoF ; etc). If you don’t have Chalice=2 available, a resolved SoLs is very useful too. If the deck is not monoB, depending on the number of non basics, as mentionned, BtB is seldom expected and can also win you the game. You do have to play smart in this MU, and hope you won’t mulligan into oblivion. Playing “all in”, and go for a t1 Drake is seldom the correct play. Remember that Chalice=2 shuts the Chalice=1 option. So if the build also has a heavy 1cc curve (Toughtseize, Therapy, Stp, etc), you need to take the good decision, and usually fast. In those situations, I am really happy to play a lot of Trinket Mages&Chalices. Those decks don’t usually have a crazy late game. The build with SoL&S, Mulldrifter is a lot stronger than the previous in this particuliar MU. I’ve never been unhappy to meet those decks in tournaments.

[tyrcho]

@drewliusmaximus:
Yamaelle's post Lorwyn FS deck

4 City of Traitor
4 Ancient Tomb
9 Island
1 Seat of the Synod
4 Chrome Mox

4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Sea Drake
3 Trinket Mage
3 Sower of Temptation
3 Mulldrifter

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Pithing Needle
4 Force of Will

SB:
1 Pithing Needle
2 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Back to Basics
4 Silent Arbitrer
3 Sea Sprite
1 Sower of Temptation

After reading this thread for weeks I have completed the deck and I really like this list. I play a similar one and I would like to discuss the differences :
- I play pestermite in place of trinket mage, but I guess it is simply because my meta has few combo and I don't need more than 4 chalices
- I play 3 Jitte instead of the SoLS, and this one I don't really understand (especially with the non evasive mage). I don't see when the abilities of the sword are more relevant : maximum life gain is lower, and I seldom have a creature in the yard to retrieve. And I really appreciate the -1/-1 option of Jitte. Against which deck to you prefer the SoLS ?
- draw / utility. I am trying 2-3 thirst for knowledge and only 2 mulldrifter since it is seldom to expensive to play for 5. TfK is also quite good in this heavy artifact version. I'm not really convinced ...
- side options : sea sprite / chill. I guess sea sprite is better against goblins and chill agaisnt burn ?
- side again : why silent arbiter instead of propaganda ? I'm worried by the additional cost and the fact arbiter dies to creature removal such as warren weirding.

[Dr. DOOM]

@Dr DOOM: Thanks for the feedback regarding the Fetch +EE in MD in tournaments. I reckon it looks great vs Slivers, but this greatness has a cost indeed. I guess everyone agrees on the stable manabase. How come almost all the lists we see online keep playing that ?


I guess that it is a metagame choice. Running two fetch doesn't hurt much, and opponents running 4 wastelands can still be dealt with. That makes it a great way to deal with the random Zoo/Sligh/White Weenie/Sliver decks at large tournaments.

Things get ugly in combination with other land destruction spells. I my local metagame (The Netherlands and Belgium) there's a lot of aggro loam with countryside crusher and terravore, so they are out of range anyway for Explosives, and I'm running into Black disruption builds which are too heavy on land destruction and seem to leave out some 2CC permanents for Tombstalker, which is also out of range for Explosives.

These particular matchups also demand a Chalice @2, so Jitte cannot be cast. That's why I like SoLS so much, it plays around the chalice at all times.

It's also the same metagame here that makes Sower of Temptation really hard to play, quite often I can't get the 2UU necessary for casting it, even with the mono-blue mana base. So I'm thinking of replacing the Sowers with Maelstrom Djinn, Psi-Blast, or Quicksilver Dragon and go directly for the opponents' head.

[coma]

Little report for a good tourament .finale emilia earthquake apr/27/08 ,136 book in , 94 at start. I play fs with my optimal build.
9 island
1 sinodo
4 mox
4 ancient
4 city

4 sea drake
4 efreet
4 cloud of f.
4 trinket mage ( always mvp)
2 weatherseed f.

4 fow
4 cotv

4 sofi
4 jitte

3 tfk
1 needle

T1 xxx landstill uw counterbalance
G1 I play nothing only an efreet , he plays top-cb , but I have no problem with my mana curve , and I play creature and then sofi.
In mis-d btb out all drop cc 2
G2 I fow a top and I have an efreet on board, he plays his last spell and play with 2 tundra and 1 mishra top –cb going tap-out , with no cards. I have 6 mana and I play a creature to see cb , he reveals counter , so then I play btb and gg. 2-0

T2 sss stifle naught ub
G1 island vial (i think chefalid b.) I fow and without lock element I'm in race with sea drake , efreet , sea drake , jitte.
In mis-d , btb ,island, control magic , binding brasp , crypt, e.e. out 13 slot
G2 he mulligans to 6 and I play a series of thread , after one or two removal I'm in race .2-0

T3 yyy pikula uw
G1 no lock (like cotv) , he discards my hand and then plays stalker .
In mis-d , control magic , binding grasp , crypt (this will be a great intuition) out 7 slot
G2 T1 cotv 1 , T2 efreet ,T3 drake and race.
G3 no lock and he plays all his spells. He has top and stalker , with 2 lands on board and no cards . I have drake , 1 island and 1 city (I'm 20 and he is 17 life point).
Start the race . I play trinket (for ctv) , he plays grunt , I think (my graveyard 4 cards , his 1 cards) and I play trinket , play crypt and bury my graveyard. He loses grunt and goes , I play drake and city for cotv 1 , he draws stp and I win the race. 2-1

T4 zzz rock bgw

Bad mu , bad cards and I lose 1-2

T5-T6 i’m very lucky

T5 luppi boros rw
We know what we play
G1 plain isamaru , ancient cotv 1, mountain go, ancient cotv 2
In 2 weatherseed f 2 mis-d 1 e.e out 4 cloud fearies e 1 needle
G2 plain isamaru , island go , mountain go , city weatherseed , he grunt and I fow, I play efreet , he plays creature cc rw , I play and equippe jitte and kill it,he stp on w.f. I eqippe efreet and I keep jitte with counters , he go , I play sofi , he has 2 bolt , but jitte give me the race .2-0

T6 elena ***** ugw
G1 she mulligans to 5 , I play ancient cotv 1 , land go , island cloud efreet , she land go, I play land sea drake , she plays hoofprints of the stag but I have a fow.
In misd btb island control magic grasp e.e.12 out 12
G2 I have a contol profile, she isn’t aggro and so I contol board with trinket , ctv , contol magic etc..2-0

T7 i.d.

5-1-1 top 8

Quarti zzz rock bgw ( same of swiss)
G1 I lose for my only one big mistake , i can play 2 creature to win the race with i1 life point , and I wrong..
G2 mulligan to 6 . mox (trinket) ancient trinket t1, cotv 1 city efreet t2, other efreet t3 and go on fast race.
G3 mulligan 6 with very slow hand , and lose .1-2

At end i 'm 6th

Considerations: normally finale Emilia is an aggro meta , but I see that meta becames SLOWER.
Most 2 color played is blue and black.Very used card like extirpate thoughtsize and other B…
Top- counterbalance … U

Thank to all guys (yamaelle , drewliusmaximus , dr.doom , etc…) that write their ideas , opinions , and test on faeries ‘s stompy thread , to its development.
Thanks to fs (eldariel)
Bye bye

[technogeek5000]

Nice finish. One thing I noticed was your high equipment account. SoFI is very mana intensive and 4 could clog your hand at times. Also 4 jittes will give you doubles which could be problematic at times. It seems like this deck realy only needs 6 equipment so my suggestion to yioou is to try cutting one of each for some more or maybe a few trinket mage targets (run a few off colored duals for explosives maybe).

[DrewliusMaximus]

Nice playing Coma. So were you happy with the 4x Jittes?

[Eldariel]

Coma: Well done. Too bad you lost to the Rock-deck; losing to own mistakes in Top 8 is a real bummer. Could you list your sideboard for ease of reference? Also, how did you like Thirst for Knowledge over Mulldrifter?

Generally you'll want Back to Basics against Rock, and Sword of Light and Shadow is overall stronger than Umezawa's Jitte in that particular match-up. In fact, the reason I first added Back to Basics to my sideboard was the wealth of Rock-decks I saw that care little for Winter Orb, but are very much hurt by B2B (as a bonus, it's Putrefy-immune) - the other reason being that Back to Basics actually locks people out while Winter Orb just slows them down so few poor draws can make WOrb very ineffective, while B2B is probably lethal even if you lack immediate gas to follow up with.


On Fetches + Duals: I ran them for a long time, probably a hundred game and the only time they helped me was versus Slivers (for some reason they never came up vs. Tarmogoyfs). On the other hand, having Tundras with B2B sucks and losing to Wastes et al. sucks in Stax match-ups as well as Dragon Stompy. At the present all my blue sources are Islands save for the singleton Shoreline Ranger, and I haven't really missed Seat or Volcanic yet.

Of course, if Slivers are a force to reckon with in your meta, this changes. However, in the absence of such metas, I feel we should avoid the unnecessary splash and get all we can out of Back to Basics.


On Psi Blast: I've occasionally dropped Psionic Blasts; they're a metagame call and if there're tons of Tarmogoyfs abound, Psi Blast is generally a bad choice. Against control, I tend to want those few Psi Blasts to deal the last points, but that's generally not enough reason to not play extra draw in those slots. If we go by the Legacy Metagame Forum, Psi Blast is certainly the wrong card to play now.

On Cloud of Faeries: Also, I'm testing Pestermite in the Cloud of Faeries-slot. The lack of cycling hurts, but the strength of 'Mites in race is incredible. Against black decks, they tend to be a bit worse, but black decks tend to be relatively good (due to the ability to accelerate into a turn 2 Chalice) match-ups already so I take the benefit against other decks over the black advantage. Pestermite can do a poor nova impression while also being a believable beater and a good way to break Standstill at the EOT.

I'm not sure yet, but I'm probably gonna like them enough to keep them in. I'm just a bit worried about the lack of ability of keeping a Chalice+Cloud+no blue mana hand in hopes of cycling into some.

[Dr. DOOM]

I'm just a bit worried about the lack of ability of keeping a Chalice+Cloud+no blue mana hand in hopes of cycling into some.

I already gave up the hope of cycling into blue mana a long time ago. I do keep hands with four colorless mana and 2 chalices, but even that isn't safe. Your idea sounds like fun, I think I'll also have a go with Testermite in the CoF slot because of my recent chalice@2 shenanigans :smile:

[Sek'Kuar]

What about that blue Onslaught Block Islandcycling aven?

[Eldariel]

I run 1 and don't see a reason not to, especially with most 2-drops cut.

[coma]

Sorry! I forget my my classic optimal side:
2 mis-d
3 btb
2 control magic (normally like 20/1/08 cremona I play 4 control magic)
2 binding grasp ( to diversify for meddling / extirpate but it’s doesn’t matter)
2 island ( as always… please don’t kill me)
2 weatherseed fearies
1 crypt
1 e.e

First of all , what I will write is my personal taste because is anticipate to many test with all new cards .

@technogeek5000-drewliusmaximus: I know there are many competitive builds , with less equippe , with splash for e.e. , but I love this aggro-bulid with a firm mana base , I prefer , like element of surprise , to became control in G 2-3 , with a side dedicate to capsize a bad mu like control and also vs aggro-control.
Nobody can keep all cards in deck , we have to make a choices , and I believe in these.
So thank you very much

@eldariel:
-Honestly is not a bummer , you are too kind , it’ s only my terrible ( and so stupid ) mistake , and when you fail a match-point vs a bad mu , it’s right lose. And , in particular , it is very bad mu
, because he plays a not optimal build , with many basic lands and rock old style with high cc ( like ravenous baloth , loxodont h.) , but with white for 4 vindicate and 4 stp.
-I prefer tfk , like draw effect , because , I think so : I have 18 artifacts and 4 tutor to look for it , so I have always an artefact in my hand , so when I cast tfk , I cast like an ancestral ( about .. I know it ), and vs goblin when ca n use it to get out to rishada port … if you play mulldrifter goblin has 7 lock land element against us ( 4 wastelands 3 ports) … if we don’t develop well mana mull is not optimize and possible artefact in my hand are dead cards and we can’t recycle it.(personal taste)
-sols is very actual and strong equippe , but I prefer old jitte .In many situation 1 mana of different is a real different.
Cremona (example) vs angel stompy in a turn he plays cataclysm , he has 1plain and a 2/2 , I keep cloud cotv1 and a city on board , my turn I play jitte , then equippe and then I win.
This Finale Emilia vs boros T5 he has 2 lands and isamaru and cast rw 2/2 ( I don’t remember the name) , I have pro red and efreet and few life point , 1 island and 1 city (I have in my hand , may be , 1 mis-d and mox ) I draw jitte … I need to play in that turn , and I win in that turn.
-Cloud is a particular card with particular skill and important . I like it also for cycle. After endless test I uncovered one particular thing:
- if you play against a no mana denial deck
- if start your opponent
…you have 1 cloud (and other good spell like 1 fow) and 1 ancient like only mana source …
YOU CAN KEEP ! because for your second turn you draw 3 cards and statistically in 3 cards there is a blu source.(this is a particular anecdote…who wants can try) .

Thank you very much

Bye bye

[DrewliusMaximus]

Does anyone else have frequent trouble casting Sower (especially if a 4th is boarded in)?

[Humphrey]

My Problem is, Sower dies to quick

[Dr. DOOM]

Casting it is not a problem unless you're playing against heavy land destruction, but it's not the easiest casting cost. You do need a stable mono blue manabase when you play Sowers. But indeed, keeping it on the table is harder. I'm thinking of adding two quicksilver Dragon instead of Sowers, has anyone tried this?

[DrewliusMaximus]

I still like the Sowers (keeping them is hard, but reanimating them is nice), but I guess I've just been caught with an uncastable Sower alot recently, especially with one blue source and two Tombs/Cities down. Maybe only 2 Sowers in the MD and 1 in SB? or maybe I'm just having bad luck with the double blue lately.

While you're not going to steal as many Goyfs and random big guys, you would have better shot at CoTV for 2 (and CoTV1, and Needle, and mana) if you were to play Yamaell's list with -1 Sower MD, +1 Trinket Mage MD (and a 4th Arbiter could be added in the sideboard).

[BreathWeapon]

If Sword of Light and Shadow is becoming the new default Equipment, does that open up the door for Raven Familiar in the 6th creature slot? Recurring a mini Impulse plus a blocker seems decent, and the card isn't terrible by itself.

[Dr. DOOM]

If Sword of Light and Shadow is becoming the new default Equipment, does that open up the door for Raven Familiar in the 6th creature slot? Recurring a mini Impulse plus a blocker seems decent, and the card isn't terrible by itself.

It's better to use creatures that are also good without the SoLS in play. The creatures currently played in Faerie Stompy are waaaaay superior to Raven Familiar. You would just be recurring a crappy card instead of a good one and still lose. Even Maelstrom Djinn is better than Raven Familiar when you're running SoLS.

[Mayk0l]

I'm thinking of adding two quicksilver Dragon instead of Sowers, has anyone tried this?

I played a lot of FS a while ago (but have stopped playing it, that was, even before Mulldrifter was printed) and I included 2-3 Quicksilver Dragon in the maindeck. People have openly and publically laughed at me for it, I never understood why though, because in my opinion it worked pretty well.

Advantages:
1) It's the easiest critter to cast in the entire deck, that is, if you play it Morph
2) It can be colorless and kill a Goblin Piledriver (back when I played FS avidly, this was actually a very imporant point, I don't know if it's that big a deal now)
3) It pitches to Chrome Mox and FoW, making it easy to get rid of if you don't need it
4) It's the biggest beater in the deck, swinging for 5, swinging for more once you get equipment on its back.
5) Adding more creatures to this deck always felt good because you'd draw into more threats when your Chalice got Naturalized and your guys got the plow.

But the downside to the card, and the reason I think it's not included:
It's slooooow and mana intensive. Since you basically *have* to play it Morphed, and then need to flip it a couple of turns later. I played it like I play Akroma in DS; pitch it to a Mox or another card the second you think you might not get sufficient mana to play it.
However, taking into account that Dragon is slow, it can still hit the table flipped quite fast, and I've had turn two Dragons in the past. I have to admit however, regardless of the popularity of StP, I've rarely used its Divert ability and thus it loses some of its charm.

At this point, even though Sower has a more difficult casting cost, I'd still run that over the Dragon since there are so many buff creatures you'd want to steal (Country Side Crusher, Terravore, any DS card, Tombstalker, and of course most importantly; Tarmogoyf, yes I think that sums up my argument perfectly; Sower beats Tarmogoyf, Quicksilver Dragon doesn't).

[Mirrislegend]

Can someone point me to the most agreed-upon list available concerning mulldrifter vs TfK, Shoreline ranger, sower of temptation, and number of equipment?

EDIT: I've also heard a rumor of Pestermite being decent in FS. Sound out please

[Dr. DOOM]

At this point, even though Sower has a more difficult casting cost, I'd still run that over the Dragon since there are so many buff creatures you'd want to steal (Country Side Crusher, Terravore, any DS card, Tombstalker, and of course most importantly; Tarmogoyf, yes I think that sums up my argument perfectly; Sower beats Tarmogoyf, Quicksilver Dragon doesn't).

Yeah, but I don't want to rely on a weak 2/2 to win me games, even if it steals Goyfs. That means relying on your opponent to play fatties and then hope you can get away with stealing them. I want my own fatties to win me games and smash opponents :smile:

I am going to test QS Dragon in the main with Sower in the sideboard, see how it works for me, thanks

[coma]

@mirrislegends: mulldrifter vs tfk (now is more frequently played mull ) , equippe depends to the build (from 6 to 8)
shoreline (eldariel plays it instead of 1 island)
sower (now) swaping control magic
pestermite is a good card 2/3 creatue in a meta slot .
bye:smile:

[Humphrey]

Slagwurm Armor can be a nice combatadvantage, but i wouldnt go the defense way with this deck.
Id rather play O-Naginata or Bonesplitter

[BreathWeapon]

I use to run Cursed Scroll, it was worth it against Goblins, IMO. It could be a mini-draw engine with Swans.

[Yamaelle]

I don’t find the idea of adding Swans here very attractive. Though Swans+Masticore seem sexy. I might actually try to fit it somewhere in a T2 deck.

Regarding the list you made, you have to remember that you often have Chalice=1. Therefore, 1cc artefacts generally suck in the MD; 0 or X ccs also work with Mages and Chalices. Yet, some are too strong to ignore (Needle namely), or can be useful SB cards in some particular MUs where you won’t play Chalice=1 (Moratorium Stone vs LoamConfinement UGw).

Library of Leng, LED, Lodestone bauble, Runned Stalactite, Straw Golem, Thran Turbine and Zuran Orb have close to nothing to do in this deck. I am surprised you actually mentioned them. I am glad that you yet kept that list not too long. I am surprised you didn't mention Top.

Phyrexian Dreadnought and Grindstone need some other cards to support them, but are good. Yet, they belong to another deck . Running these really mean you cannot rely anymore on Chalices on 1 and/or 2. You can still keep the mana base, the threats +equipments, but it will be a different deck. With increased inconsistency/mulligans, maybe some occasional spectacular plays, but imho less efficient. I think Clark Kant already posted a build with both combos.

Scroll is really strong, but 3 colorless manas can be a lot in this deck, especially if you also need to empty your hand at the same time. There are also situations where you don’t want to overextend (Deed, WoG, etc), or simply have a FoW in hand, etc. It was tested in the deck at the early beginning, and rejected. Tapping a tomb to use Scroll makes you feel bad also.

Feldon’s Cane: Solidarity sees little play nowadays, and it has always been a good MU. Maybe switching BtB to Winter Orbs, has decreased a bit the MU, but you shouldn’t worry about it. Vs Painter Stone, I haven’t really tested yet, but I’d say Chalice =1 before Grindstone is in play, or Needle naming Stone seem a lot better than relying on Feldon’s Cane.

I encountered several times Meekstone as a hate card vs FS in tournaments. It “killed me” once (technically my 2 Serendibs did it). I was able to win through it the 2-3 other times I had to. You lose Efreets&Drakes, but the rest of your crew usually have 2 or less power. In this situation, Jitte seem to be the best equipment, as you won’t be able to untap a creature with a sword still attached. It is true Meekstone can be a very efficient SB card, it could definitely be considered in here. But as it would imply some replacements in SB to Efreets & Drakes, I think it is not really worth it.

I tried playing Orichi Hatchery. It was intended as a really late game Mage target, but every time I had to play it, I had no more than 6 manas, and using it usually implies tapping at least 1 Ancient Tomb. And I never had a situation where tutoring it would give me a game. I wished it had work better…

Both Phyrexian Furnace & Scrabbling Claws are suboptimal GY hate (for this deck). They are too slow, and you cannot really remove the card you want to remove anyway (or you lose your Furnace). Tormod’s Crypt is clearly the best option, but there are some situations where Crypt is useless (vs resolved Confinement) or not very useful (decks with multiples Loams, Burning Wishes, Recoups for instance). In those situations, I prefer to use Moratorium Stone (crappy guildpact rare that you didn’t mention). It does cost 1 (as Furnace and Claws), and the second ability is useless here, but being able to remove the card of your choice for 2 manas and repeat it several times is really what you want when Tormod’s Crypt cannot work. I occasionally switch a Crypt in SB for it, but it is clearly a meta slot.

In short, as you asked for suggestions, I suggest not adding a single artefact of that list to the deck :frown: . No offence intended, but abusing Trinket Mage’s toolbox has already been heavily tested since the deck was created. Maybe some new artefacts for this deck will appear someday, but at the present moment, it seems a combination of Needles, EEs, and Crypts is optimal and can cover a lot of different MUs. Chalices=1 is that important in so many situations. If you really have room in your SB, I guess a couple still could fit as meta slots, but I already have enough trouble staying to 15 cards.

[DrewliusMaximus]

Yamaelle, I've wanted to ask you about the 3 MD and 1 SB Sowers...Do you not have fairly frequent problems casting Sowers, especially when the 4th is boarded in?

[Yamaelle]

Well, it happened a couple times (having trouble casting Sowers). But I still like to play 3 in MD, I don’t use the 4th one in SB that often, I might end up cutting it. It is usually not the 1st creature you want to cast anyway, meaning it is usually a creature I cast after a couple turns (you need a relevant target anyway), and by that time I usually have 2UU. I used to play Control Magic in SB, with the same cc, and it helped me (saved me) in many tournaments. Between FoWs, Chalices, Swords, it is possible to protect the Sowers, and sometimes recur them, so I prefer them to Control Magic at the moment.

If I didn’t play them, I would go back to Control Magic in SB. For me, it is the only card with UU that should be in the deck (be it MD or SB). So, even if it is occasionally hard to cast, I am far from cutting them at the present moment. From my experience, it was really seldom an issue (get UU to cast it when you need to).

[Wave]

I've followed these discussions for a couple of month now and had the deck for over a year, althou not been able to play it any competive since there is no magic being played here in Northern Sweden. So my question is what are the decks current matchups and how do it fare in the metagame today, the decks in the old primer has changed quite alot since so I don't know if it is valid any more.

[coma]

Mu are same of 2 years ago .New played decks are favourable mu.
Mu also depends to your build.
Fs is a very competitive deck in all is version :
Old style
http://www.deckcheck.net//deck.php?id=14229
new style
http://www.deckcheck.net//deck.php?id=15111
http://www.deckcheck.net//deck.php?id=12210
http://www.deckcheck.net//deck.php?id=12732
http://www.deckcheck.net//deck.php?id=12193
bye bye

[yankeedave]

BTW, I was making a short research yesterday and checked all :0: to :1: artifacts...
Except for the usual toolbox of Needle, Crypt, EE and CotV, I have found some interesting ones:...

Suggestions?

Heap Doll? -

Shadowmoor uncommon

Artifact Creature - Scarecrow

1/1

Sacrifice Heap Doll: Remove target card in a graveyard from the game.

Just an idea against Ichorid and maybe other matchups? Just putting it out there!

[mujadaddy]

My meta is rampant with Solidarity. What solution would you recommend?
Arcane Laboratory. End of discussion :wink:

[mujadaddy]

Ehm... how could I forget? Stop throwing those mushrooms in my tea!
No. http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b265/mujadaddy/mushrooms.gif<--By the way, if these are dancing, you probably need to lie down for an hour or so.

Heh. I've been building a "Real Faeries" deck (non-Tomb/'stompy'), and Arcane Laboratory is 3-in-the-sideboard. Thought I'd throw that in here :cool:

[Eldariel]

Don't fucking SB crap for combo. Seriously. If you really have slots to waste (I certainly don't), try Trinisphere or Arcane Laboratory. But seriously, 8 Chalices, 4 Forces and a fast clock = goodies vs. Storm anyways. You already have Misdirection against blue combo as additional SB crap; Riptide Pilferer wouldn't get played in a billion years.

I tested against Solidarity back in the day when it was big and the games ended something like 8-2 in Faerie Stompy's favour. It's simply not a match for you to lose, no matter how rampant it's around there.

[mujadaddy]

Don't fucking SB crap for combo. Seriously. If you really have slots to waste (I certainly don't), try Trinisphere or Arcane Laboratory.To understand better, I'll ask -- You mean you don't consider storm combo a danger, so you don't spend SB slots on it, correct?


8 ChalicesHuh?

[frolll]

For the Chalices of the Void, I guess it's because there are also 4 Trinket Mago in the deck, meaning you got 8 CotV.
Like saying Loam plays 7 Life from the Loam, 3 in the md + 4 Burning wishes.

On topic : Is the tiny splash for EE still being tested, or you guys rejected it ?

[DrewliusMaximus]

Frolll, I did not like the splash for EE and asked about it a few weeks ago. Most responses I got were against it. Having just 2 fetchlands and a dual doesn't make EE for 2 all that reliable of a play.

Yamaelle, I like the Sowers in your build also. I was asking about them because I had somewhat frequent problems casting them when I got them, especially when I boarded in the 4th. I figured that 4 would be good against Goyfs (since they can come down fast and provide early targets), but I had Sowers more often than I had 2UU.

[Eldariel]

To understand better, I'll ask -- You mean you don't consider storm combo a danger, so you don't spend SB slots on it, correct?

Huh?

The newer storm-combo may be strong enough to warrant SB Trini or Arcane Laboratory; no comments on that yet as I haven't done sufficient testing to know. All I know is, I've lost a match to FL Tendrils and that's never happen to me before versus any other combo-deck. However, if we're talking about metagame flooded with Solidarity, your fundamental gameplan so heavily trumps theirs that there's little to worry about, so if you have Misdirections on the SB, I wouldn't bother with anything.

If I went into a metagame absolutely flooded with FL Tendrils and TES though, I'd strongly consider Trinisphere on the SB. However, if they aren't really a significant factor, the chances of playing against them more than once per tournament are really minor and since you already have a decent match versus all sorts of Storm-combo, SBing for general one round where you already have at least even chances of victory just seems like an utter waste of sideboard space; I play heavyhitters for multiple match-ups such as Back to Basics (Landstills, Rocks, etc. - anything with 3+ colours and spells costing more than 2 really), Misdirection (anything with black, blue-based combo, red non-Goblins aggro, so on), Control Magic/Sowers (anything with creatures), Tormod's Crypt (anything focusing around graveyard) and 1-ofs for Mage (EE, Needle, etc.).

Some metagames may dictates cards such as heavy duty red hate (Chill, Blue Elemental Blast, pro-red faeries), heavy duty anti-combo (Trinisphere, Arcane Laboratory) or even heavy duty artifact hate (Energy Flux; yes, I've SBd it at some point and it actually was good against Stax and Affinity), but going to open metagames or known metagames with merely standard numbers of those decks, I'd consider all of those overkill and weakening your overall match-ups.

[coma]

@sasa_batora: counterbalance in fs is bad choice , because we have a dysfunctional mana curve fixed on cc 3.
If you like to play with 4 trinket and a good toolbox ( more control , with good manipulation) you can see eldariel 's build , that I have writen in last page.
bye

[coma]

Best strategy is ever a simple game plane.
You have to give a control profile , but you say about fanta-magic.
I try to suppose your perfect game pane:
T1 top ... oppo no threat
T2 cotv 1 ... oppo no threat
T3 counterbalance
T4 cotv 2

Sorry , but I don't understand .:frown:

[Spardantevil]

BTW - what can FS hit with CB+SDT combo on:

:3: - Pernicious Deed, Meditate, TfK, Cruel Bargain/Infernal Contract, Pox, Oblivion Ring, Gator, Vore/Crusher.
:4: - Wrath of God, Humility, Disk, IGG, Stax, Worship, Geddon, first Tendrils/EtW even
:5: - FoW, Meloku.

Each of those spells is solid target for FoW, why not just CBalance it?

The only relevant thing to counterbalance here would be Pernicious Deed or IGG, the rest being unplayed/non dangerous, so CB seems kinda useless to me right now.

And as Yamaëlle said, playing fetches in a deck that already almost kills its player because of Tombs/Efreets with no way to gain PVs other than SoLaS is kinda turning the deck into "Faerie Suicide".

Now I'd like to ask some players' advices on: how to play against Ichorid???

This deck is nuts, and it seems to me that the only play that would avoid you to loose against it would be Trinket/tormod's or Evoke Mulldrifter... Is it me or is this MU way too hard ?

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Ichorid can play around Crypt, although sideboard Propaganda may help, if you have the spare room.

[coma]

(personal esperience) Ichorid is not a bad mu.
Many elements like cotv mulldrifter (side e.e. crypt) going to slow down ichorid and we heve also a good race.
"Fs have to have an aggressive hand ".(the only one must)
T1 cotv or mox and creature
T2 creature or equippe
... we have to consider ichorid has not removal or counter...
vs ichorid it's (only) a race like ..."to fast to furious":laugh:

[Spardantevil]

Another thing to consider is blue Leyline, which makes his Moebas, zombies and Ichorids legendary and thus irrelevant. Dying to 3/1 hasted sucker takes a serious work, especially with Jitte online.


This looks so sex! This in addition to Trinket/Crypt and mulldrifter must turn Ichorid into a nice MU. Even maybe overkill. But I didn't see CotV @1 this strong. Testing FTW:tongue:


"Fs have to have an aggressive hand ".(the only one must)
T1 cotv or mox and creature
T2 creature or equippe
... we have to consider ichorid has not removal or counter...
vs ichorid it's (only) a race like ..."to fast to furious"

In fact I think I psychologically turn Ichorid stronger than it is really since my Ichorid first experience is from Vintage :tongue:

[DrewliusMaximus]

Against Ichorid, you can also consider what Yamaelle suggested for the sideboard: Silent Arbiter.

[coma]

@drewliusmaximus: yes!
1 (first of all) depends to the build for cards played

Ichorid is only to slow down ( with our race)
it's impossible to lock it.. is not our game plane.
My team friend (giannipaolocomboplayer) play ichorid and so I know the strategy against ichorid
bye bye:smile: :smile: :smile: :smile:

[DrewliusMaximus]

Coma, how do you usually use the extra Islands in your sidebaord? What kind of stuff do you take out?

[xsockmonkeyx]

These games went fucking ugly. I set Chalice for one, but lacked equips or bigger creatures. I made a misplay when I Trinket another CoTV instead of the Crypt - I hoped for locking Karel out of game, but when he put Werebear, Sworded my Mage and cantripped, I somehow found myself looking at the army of Goyf and two threshed Mongees and Bear.

So, what happened in between these events that allowed the STP and cantrip to resolve? Or was he simply burning the spells for thresh? Obviously the Mage checked out somewhere cause he didn't stick around to block. Ill read it again when Im sober but Im still confused.

[xsockmonkeyx]

Apologize! If you find anything strange do not be ashame to ask.. I did not made the notes, so after recapitulating the games from memory, there could be some errors...

Ok cool. I feel a little less stupid now.:laugh:

[Eldariel]

Few things:
-Just play the damn Sower. It's seriously way better than Swans or Meloku. Meloku was tested, too slow and inconsistent. Swans weren't tested since they're just bad here. If you want another beater in the slot, Waterspout Djinn and Thought Devourer are both 4/4 fliers for 2UU.

-Don't bring Propaganda in vs. Threshold. You're spreading too thin on your business aspects at that point. I strongly suggest Silent Arbiter in that slot anyways; it just STOPS Goblins and with an ass of 5, is nigh' immortal. Give it a sword and enjoy.

[Humphrey]

If Rainbow Efreet would be :2: :u: and Phasing :u:, then it would be good here.

[coma]

@drewliusmaximus: I play 2 islands to steady manabase with btb's skill , to play easy control magic .
If I don't play islands , I devote 2 slot to 1 pro-red creature and 1 mis-d ... I think!:rolleyes:
thanks:smile:

[DrewliusMaximus]

How important is it to have at least 2 Tormod's Crypts in the SB (if there are 4 Trinket Mages MD and 4 Silent Arbiters in the SB)?

I've played recently with Yamaelle's build with -1 Sower MD, +1 Trinket MD (and 4 Arbiters in the SB), and I've considered going down to 1 Crypt in the SB. Any thoughts on this?

[coma]

Have 2 crypts is the top , but I'm able to survive till now with 1 crypt and 4 trinket main deck.:smile:
Silent arbitrer is a great card , but vs ichorid he can reanimate a graet creature like akroma :cry: and so crypt is very important , more than arbitrer.
bye:smile:

[HdH_Cthulhu]

So we have Trinked mages, tombs + citys, Chrome Moxes, FoW...

Has anyone tryed a SB with The Servant's Stone combo?
The combo pices + 4 fabricate!

But what MUs does it improve?

[DrewliusMaximus]

Coma, good point about the reanimation. I agree that Crypt is going be damn important in that MU (I mentioned Arbiters for MU's where they might reduce the need for multiple Crypts...like Ichorid). I am also thinking that against Reanimator, Sowers and the color-protection of 8 Swords would make me comfortable with only 1 Crypt.

[Illissius]

Silly idea, but what about actual Faerie Stompy? Something like this:

4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Pestermite
4 Scion of Oona
4 Mistbind Clique
4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Umezawa's Jitte
5-6 other cards
4 Chrome Mox
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
10-11 lands

The biggest question is whether to splash black for Bitterblossom (and, I would think, only Bitterblossom, at least in the maindeck). Other notable Faeries for the open slots (along with all the other usual Faerie Stompy cards) are Sea Sprite, Weatherseed Faeries, and Sower of Temptation.

Reason why this is a terrible idea: Engineered Plague.
Reason why this might also be a terrible idea: Drakes, Efreets, and Mages may simply be stronger than anything Faeries can give you. This seems possible, but nonobvious to me.

Anyways, this was tickling me, so I posted it.

[Humphrey]

Well Faeries is a completely different deck than Faerie Stompy ^^

[TMP1996]

What about adding Pestermite to the maindeck deck? Maybe I'm just crazy and don't know enough about the deck. Here's the list I've been toying with:

9 Island
1 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

4 Serendib Efreet
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Trinket Mage
4 Sea Drake
3 Pestermite

4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
4 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Pithing Needle

SB:
4 Propaganda
3 Control Magic
3 Back to Basics
2 Misdirection
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Tormad's Crypt
1 Gaea’s Blessing (for those stupid painter's stone decks)

[Phantom]

Pestermite has been discussed at length. Basically it boils down to them or Cloud of Faeries, as they both hit like (ironically) faeries and they aren't providing card advantage (like Mulldrifter).

Has anyone tested Swans of Bryn Argoll? He's not as easy to cast as the rest of the beaters we run, but he hits for 4, can't be removed by burn, has evasion, and turns SoFI into six damage + Ancestral Recall.

[TMP1996]

Yeah, you're right. I noticed a few people play Weatherseed Faerie, which is the spot I put Pestermite into. Now that I think about it, Weatherseed Faerie is a much better choice due to the pro red. And I would take the other faerie over it any day, due to the cycling and "free" cost.

Also, I have been wondering about Swans as well. I have 2 and I've been trying to find a way to get them into a deck. The only two things I see that could be a problem is the 2UU casting cost, which has been discussed on this thread a little bit, and the question of "is there a better creature that's more deserving of the spot?"

[coma]

@drewliusmaximus: honestly I forget the sower. yes is well enough.:smile:

In this moment magic can't yet give to fs some broken , unfortunately!
bye

[Sanguine Voyeur]

You know it's a replacement effect, right? Swans is able to block Tarmogoyf until they draw Swords and can survive Devestating Dreams. It would give them many cards, but it is almost unkillable.

[Mayk0l]

But what would that gain you? You'd use your nigh-impossible to cast Swans to block a single Tarmogoyf, with a drawing difference of 4-5 to 1 per turn in your opponent's favor. I wouldn't mind that, as the Tarmogoyf player. You'd spend 1G to draw insane amounts of cards, winning the game through insane card advantage, simply overwhelming the FS player. The Tarmogoyf deck doesn't even need StP to win then.

[TMP1996]

I agree %100. While the Swans "immortal" ability is nice, the fact that the opposing player is drawing 3-4 cards more than you every few turns is reason enough to not run it. Plus, as we all know, there are plenty of ways to take care of a creature in this format that isn't lethal damage.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

I never said that Swans would be good. I merely misinterpreted your post, thinking you thought they would kill the Swans and draw the cards.

[Eldariel]

Quick report from my Top 4 at the Salvation Online Tournament:

Here's my list:

// Lands
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
9 [UNH] Island

// Creatures
1 [SC] Shoreline Ranger
4 [AN] Serendib Efreet
3 [FD] Trinket Mage
4 [P2] Sea Drake
3 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
4 [LRW] Mulldrifter
4 [UL] Cloud of Faeries

// Spells
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
4 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
1 [MR] Chalice of the Void
1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
1 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [US] Back to Basics
SB: 3 [MM] Misdirection
SB: 2 [A] Control Magic

Basically the list I made for a control/midrange-heavy meta with Sowers to shore up the creature match-ups. I missed my Chalices throughout the tournament though, so it was probably the wrong call. Anyways, here's how the tournament unfolded.

Round 1 - Tng5000 with MUC

G1 I lose the roll and end up on the draw. He leads with a Delta, which doesn't tell me much, but as I try a turn 2 Serendib he Force Spikes off an Island, which lets me put him on MUC (the recently Top 8ing Ophidian-list with Brainstorm et al.). He plays Back to Basics, while I keep dropping Islands, then Powder Keg and Vedalken Shackles. I Trinket Mage to his Keg, but am met by Force. To his Shackles, I resolve SoLS. I play Sea Drake to his 5 lands (he played Shackles), hoping to Sower it back (I returned Tomb to my hand to untap it) and equip it. Surprisingly he doesn't Shackles in response allowing me to keep it. EoT he tries to Shackles the Sea Drake, but I point out the 6 power. He plays Smurfling and blows up my Drake and SoLS to his Keg and Shackles. I Sower his Smurfling (he's still stuck at 5 lands), and Facts into 5 spells (including Shackles - I split Shackles vs. rest and he chooses Shackles) on his turn. On my turn, I Mage for Needle, Needle the Shackles and commence beatdown. He plays Propaganda and Powder Keg, which lets him live one more turn, but between SoFI and the borrowed Morphling, he's quickly dead and can't ramp up to 4 counters off his Keg to kill my Sower in time.

1-0

Side out 1-2 equipment and 1-2 Clouds of Faeries (they're relatively low impact) for Needle and some Chalices (to cast at 1 for his manipulation and 2 for counters; I only have a total of 2 in though as I don't want them lategame). I may have brought in Misdirection too, but probably not as it only works against counters and he's more on the side of permanent disruption.

G2 logs are lost due to MWS crash, but he pretty much ran over me as I had a decent, but a bit land heavy opener and ran into a landclump of ~10 lands and was at nearly unwinnable position at the moment of the crash (I recall it involved Vedalken Shackles locking me out when I failed to find a Needle or a Mage). I obviously gave him the game and we moved onto G3.

1-1

G3 He mulligans, while I lead with a City. He responds with an Island. I go Island > Sea Drake and am met by a Force. However, at this point he appears to be stuck at 1 Island and I play Tomb>Drake returning both lands to my hand, wanting to create as fast a clock as possible to minimize the chances of him drawing out of his screw. I Needle his Shackles and the Drake kills him while he draws a land to counter my Trinket Mage and play a Keg. I play a Sower to put him dead on board with the Sword in my hand and his Keg only getting to two, and when he fails to draw a third land, I hit through for lethal. His hand? Keg, 3 Propagandas, 2 Shackles. It woulda been tough had he drawn his second land before I resolved my Drake as he coulda went Counter>Keg and kept me from dealing overly much damage while finding the third land for massive Propaganda (I would've still Needled Vedalken Shackles).

2-1


Round 2 - marit with SI

G1 I lose the roll, mull into a hand with few early guys but not much else in ways of business. He plays both of his lands which makes me wonder what he's playing, but I still put him on combo as he doesn't play spells. He tries to go off turn 3, but whiffs off Contract. I try to evoke Mulldrifter to find Force, Chalice or Trinket Mage, but whiff. My Efreet hits him next turn while I keep Sword in hand to mask the fact that he's dead next turn (that Bargain cut him down in size), trying to make him wait. Unfortunately he goes for it and Infernals off LED, and since I don't have a Force, I extend my virtual hand.

0-1

Side in all my Chalices and some B2B (I wasn't sure what kind of a Tendrils-build he was playing since he played 2 Bayous and another land G1, so I thought they could disrupt him) for EE, Top, Sowers and some equipment.

G2 I try to mull into some business, but while my 6-card hand has Force, it only has one land and thus I can't put enough pressure to make the Force relevant. I keep my 5-card hand with a Mulldrifter, Cloud, Mox, land and a SoFI. He has a crappy hand too, but once again my Mulldrifter fails to find anything and he goes to town with an Urami that he manages to cram out - I look at my useless B2B which could be Sower (admittedly one I can't cast) and mentally shoot myself in the face.

Yes, I lost to SI with Faerie Stompy. In my defense, I never saw a card that matters and not having 4 Chalices and Trinkets main obviously hurts. Oh well.

0-2


Round 3 - No show

Opponent never appears and I have no idea what he was playing. He never responds to my messages and I get a default win.

2-0


Round 4 - KillemallCFH with GBW Rockish

G1 I lose the roll and we both mulligan. He plays an early Confidant, that I respond to with a turn 2 Trinket (fetches Needle; GBW signals Deed), turn 3 SoFI-equip. I kill a Confidant, he plays another one. He gets a Top in play, fetches, Tops again and does nothing but play a land and swing. Then he Chants me on a Kicker (yes, MD) and I do nothing, while he keeps beating me. He Shrieks my Trinket, I Sower his Confidant and play an Efreet. He hardcasts Exalted Angel while I find SoFI with Confidant and play SoLS on my Efreet. I suicide my Confidant into his Angel while swinging with my Efreet to free my Sower. I block the Angel with my Sower and he plays Teeg. I SoFI up my efreet, revive Sower, kill Teeg and steal Angel (I had to play a Mox to get Sower into play, but now I've got tons of mana). He has Stronghold recurring Shriek to kill my Sower, but I find it perfectly ok as my Serendib has Protection from both. I drop a second SoFI on Serendib and kill him, fearing the potential Deed and wanting to finish it ASAP (I may have had a Force in hand though).

1-0

I side out Chalice, EE, Top and few Clouds for B2B, Needle and probably some Misdirections.

G2 we both keep 7. He leads with Confidant into my Force. He Witnesses his Confidant, while I'm playing my slow hand. I play Efreet, he StPs and plays Confidant. I play Drake and Efreet, of which Drake gets StPd and Efreet gets Shriekmawd. He plays his Confidant again and I don't have Force. I play a Drake and he StPs it too. Then he Chants me for a couple of turns, while drawing extra and morphing an Exalted Angel. At this point I'm at 12 to his 12, but he's ahead on board. I play Cloud>Mulldrifter, cursing the fact that I sided EEs out (I could Trinket for EE, killing the morphed Angel otherwise). I Needle a Top next turn that he had slipped in there at some point, but take beats from the Angel. I play Efreet and trade with the Angel doubleblocking with Mull and Efreet (I wager he doesn't have his last StP in hand) and down they go. I play SoLS on my Mulldrifter, but unfortunately he Krosan Grips it as I swing. He uses Stronghold to recur Angel. Trinket and Witness trade. I topdeck my only out in Sower and Sower his Angel, but he recurs Shriekmaw and without SoLS, I see the writing on the wall. I fail to draw another SoLS and fall to the beats.

1-1

G3 I play, no mulls. He has turn 1 Top, I get turn 2 Efreet. He plays a Tarmo, while I play Drake > Chalice at 1. He plays Pernicious Deed that I Force (over Tarmo or Top), and I do some math, realizing I'll win the race so I drop Back to Basics off Tomb and Island (with another Island in hand), cutting him down to 2 mana and only black. He drops another Goyf, but my Drake drops him to 4 while I'm at 5 leaving the Efreet home. Efreet blocks a Goyf and I go to 2, 1 in upkeep (He could've gotten one extra type in grave and I would've still won since I would've been left at 1 without Efreet ping). Drake swings FTW, with my hand being Sower and Drifter, while he reveals Chants, Grip and Exalted. Going for Sower over B2B would've won it too, but I felt it safer to just cut him off black mana since the race favoured me and while StP was cut off by Chalice, I still had to worry about Shriek and Deed. Later on he reveals that he only sideboards Deed, which obviously help me.

2-1


Round 5 - matelml with Fetchland Tendrils

He doesn't respond to my PMs and we fail to schedule our match so we take a draw. 3-1-1 makes it and thus I'm in.


Top 8 - Der_Imaginäre_Freund with UWb Landstill

Lists were made public so I know what I'm up against and keep accordingly. I win the roll (!!) and mulligan into 6 cards lacking lands, but with better chances to win than 5-carder vs. control. I lead G1 with Pithing Needle on Mishra's Factory (I could've, and probably should've, named EE, but I had EE of my own in hand that I could use to blow up his - of course, he had Academy Ruins and two EEs so that ended up a moot point). He plays some lands into Crucible. Turn 4 I've finally gotten a second land and go land>Mox>Efreet that sticks. He drops EE at 3, I use my EE to blow it up (along with my Mox, but I got a City so that wasn't a problem) and start swinging. I refuse to play a second creature as he probably has a Wrath or another EE and I need one more land to be able to keep a Force open. I don't Force his second EE since I have another Efreet in hand (I kinda want his Crucible out of the board anyways), but then he drops a Standstill, which kinda kills the plan since if I force it, I'm out of threats and if I don't, I'll have to let him draw. I let it resolve hoping to get another card to pitch, and he pops his EE next turn. I try my second Efreet breaking Standstill and he Counters. He gets Academy Ruins and I'm not a happy camper. I drop a Mulldrifter off two Tombs and Force his Counter, pitching Sower. He recurs EE to blow up my Needle on Factory and drops his first Factory. I swing for the fences with Drifter and drop another one off two Tombs (I could've played Efreet, but since he had recurring EE, I didn't see the point). He blows up my Needle and draws a second Factory. I can't block since he could just pump, and I'll need to race anyways if I'm to win with his ability to recur Crucible at any point. I swing him down to 5, but am down to 3 due to Tombs and his swings. I have a City and drop a Mox into Mulldrifter (they chain nicely) but he had a Force off the top last turn killing me with the factory swings; I needed two more turns, or something like a Cloud of Faeries.

0-1

I side out two pieces of equipment (I don't want to have equipment without creatures), EE and some Sowers (he has nothing worth stealing and 2/2s aren't that good in beatdown) for some Chalices and B2B.

G2 I lead with a Chalice off two Islands into Cloud>Mulldrifter, Forcing his counter pitching B2B (I want the cards). I SoFI up my Cloud and go to town for 7 damage and a card. Seems good. He Transmutes for EE while I beat him down to 4 and drop B2B with Force in hand to ensure that he lacks the mana to dig out of the trouble. Next turn he succumbs to the beatz.

1-1

G3 I open with turn 1 Drake, Forcing his Force. Turn 2 I equip it with SoLS and turn 3 I get another SoLS. He has one turn to find a Wrath (he plays 3), but draws into StP instead and I run him over in 4 turns.

2-1


Top 4 - Phantom_lt with UGr Tempo Thresh

G1 I mull into a solid hand while he Brainstorms into a double Ponder. Foolishly I play around Daze and play SoLS turn 2 even though I have Serendib, Sower and at least one other threat in hand. He drops Goyf and Wastes my Tomb while I again fuck up by playing Island to allow playing Efreet around Daze next turn instead of playing City and dropping it right now. He drops Burning-Tree Shaman, I play Efreet but I'm so low on life (at 15, but about to drop to 9) that I block his Shaman. This allows him to Bolt my Efreet and while I force, he Bolts again. I drop Sower next turn, but don't have the mana to equip and he has a 3rd Bolt and Waste. I fail to draw a mana source, with my deck mocking me with the FoW that would've saved the Sower (and my game) last turn instead. But I played so bad that I cannot blame anyone but me for losing. 4/5 Goyf and BTS rumble over to win.

0-1

I side in B2B, Control Magic and Chalices for Clouds, a SoLS or two and the other Trinkets.

G2 I have a solid hand and play turn 2 Cloud>Serendib. However, he has played turn 1 and 2 Mongoose. I try turn 3 Back to Basics with a land open, but he double Dazes it and we're off to race (at this point I needed to play calmly and sit back as I had a Control Magic in hand, but I went aggressive with both). He drops a third Mongoose, all 1/1s, but able to race Efreet and Cloud quite effectively due to Tombs and self-ping. I trade Cloud for a Mongoose, but I start defending too late, being at 5 and being dropped to 2 with Upkeep threatening lethal. He drops Trygon Predator and Dazes my Cloud and since I only have 2 Tombs in addition to my 2 Islands (with Chalice and B2B in my hand that are now useless since I played too aggressively and didn't conserve my lifetotal), I die.

0-2


I'm not at all happy with my playing, since I could've won the semis by just sticking to the correct role in those specific sitiuations, but I misassessed a few things which eventually led to my loss (most importantly, G2 I felt compelled to try to end it fast due to my Tombs, but I should've just swung with Cloud buying me time and forcing him to play something for me to steal). Against combo, this build is of course weaker, but I still have 4 effective Chalices (3 Trinkets, 1 Chalice) and 4 Forces along with Mulldrifters, so it shouldn't be that bad.

I'll blame that on the bad draws on my part; mulling to 5 without drawing hand with disruption both games sucks. I should've mulled to 4 in G2, or even to 3, but I hoped my Mulldrifter would draw me into something (I had enough outs to make it a workable gamble, especially since the hand didn't suck otherwise), which obviously didn't pan out.

Still, I did beat both control-decks I faced along with the Rock-like deck, so it's not that bad overall. Too bad I never got to play Scrubtastic. Also, too bad I seem to play like a fool vs. Threshold, but that match-up truly takes a lot of adapting and switching of roles as it's all so damn sitiuational; there isn't a set beatdown and control.

Couple of things:
- I was definitely hurt by not having 4 Chalices main, but I expected more midrange-decks and less combo and Threshold. Oh well, at least I know now. I do figure that 1 Chalice is wrong though; 2 seems better even for metas where it's weak as it multiplies the chances of drawing it turn 1, and make combo somewhat better. It's mostly just Deed-decks where I don't want it at all since I tend to want Needle on Deed there.
-SoLS was an allstar against control. I'd rather want it over Jitte against just about all decks except for Goblins at the present.
-Sower came through for me, even in surprising sitiuations like against MUC's active Shackles. The duo seems solid.
-I've contemplated dropping Cloud for Pestermite on numerous occasions, but this tournament the sped up plays from Cloud as well as the additional body turned out to be valuable oft-times. I'm still not sure. I'll test 'Mite in the slot for sure though.
-Misassignment of role = game loss. Yes, I've now experienced it firsthand. Stupid Threshold.


Of course, it was a rather small (32 player) online tournament, so take the results as you will. Still, the Top 8 contained Landstill, a couple of Threshold-variants, Aggro Loam, Tendrils-combo and an MWC-variant (along with Faerie Stompy), so it can't be that bad.

[sroncor1]

@ Eldariel First congratulations on a solid finish. After reading your report I had a few questions about what your thoughts were. Have you considered dropping the Sword of Fire and Ice and possibly running jittes in their place. I guess my meta is a little more random aggro, but I have always found that the jittes help control the board more when you have to assume the role of control player. What number of chalices would you run now after trying going down to one and deciding that you wanted more? I tried two for a while, and I was still running 4 mages at the time. The configuration worked sometimes but I have since wet back up to running all four main deck. My final question is after reading your report it seems as if the top never really became a factor during your games. Do you still think it should be run in the deck?

[sroncor1]

It would seem to me that you would either have to stop the servant before he hits the table or be ready to push through a resolved EE for 2. Chalice is also an all star here as you can turn off their cheap counters and combo pieces. In my limited testing, I have found that approaching the match up much like other fast combo decks helps a lot. Drop pieces of disruption then start beating face as fast as possible. Playing two colors does help here though.

[Eldariel]

Chalice is a nuclear bomb vs. Servant's Stone, so the 4-Chalice version should be relatively strong in the match-up. 4 Chalices, 4 Trinkets and 4 Mulldrifters gives you a decent access to them, and then you just drop it before they drop Grindstone. Also, Engineered Explosives helps, and Jitte and SoFI are both great. In my opinion, it's very winnable, although you do have to play tight due to the amounts of removal they have; resolve a creature, any creature. Then you'll be playing only must counters and they'll run out.

I wouldn't really focus on Needles as they get cut off by Chalice at one; keep 1 Needle in the deck, but don't bring in extras. EE and Chalice are the best trinkets and Sowers, Jitte and SoFI are all great against it. Basically, the MU is one of those where you win if you Chalice at 1.


sroncor1: I wouldn't drop SoFI since it speeds up the goldfish so much and because pro-red is great. Also, I want to draw the cards; the card is incredible overall. It is worth consideration, but playing SoLS and not SoFI just feels wrong on so many levels.

Sensei's Divining Top never came up since I drew a relatively low number of Trinket Mages and thus wasn't in a position to tutor for it. It's a great card if you only play 1 Chalice, but when adding more, it doesn't belong anymore as you need to minimize the number of dead cards off Chalice at 1 to make sure it doesn't bite you in the rear.


The correct number of Chalices is a metagame decision, but if I expect to see that much combo, I would play 4 in a heartbeat. If I expect mostly control/midrange decks, especially ones without much spot removal, I'd go with 1. Threshold/Gobs/company meta would mean 4, but control and midrange in the mix makes that less than optimal.

In the end, I'd play 4 just to prevent embarrassing losses to good match-ups (who knows how much better I would've been up against Threshold had I had 4 Chalices... Still, it's my playing that fucked me up, not the deck - I cannot blame anything else for that).

[coma]

Congratulation to Eldariel for result.
:smile: :smile: :smile: :smile: :smile:
@eldariel : about cotv I'm agree with you!

[Humphrey]

Didnt play against it so far. But Turn1 CotV@1 Turn 2 Beater and Force the EE he may play and its game.

[Eldariel]

They have no colourless lands so Chalice at 0 is gonna block their EEs, while Chalice at 1 cuts off REBs et co. Really though, give me a list to work with and I'll test it myself and get back to you with testing results. It definitely isn't impossible, seeing that you seem to consistently win at least one game against it. I feel it should be favourable with proper playing due to Painter's Stone being a combo-deck and vulnerable to Chalice at that.

You run 22-23 creatures, he runs 6 blasts, 4 Forces, 4 EEs. Advantage - you. Further, those EEs and Forces are going to be busy fighting your Chalices. Advantage - you. You run 4 Chalices, 4 Trinkets and 4 Forces vs. his 4 Forces and 4 EEs along with Blasts on Trinkets (you should do whatever you can to bait REBs before Trinkets though) - advantage you. EE can kill their Welders, Stones, Vials and other nonsense. It seriously looks like that while they have answers to your answers, they're not likely to have all the right answers at the right time.

Further, 6 REB versions seem unlikely to be exceedingly popular in Legacy where a good half of the metagame doesn't run blue. But yea, give me a list and I'll test it and get back to you with numbers and general strategic considerations.

[Yamaelle]

Nice report, Eldariel, and well detailed. Thanks for that. I think you can probably blame the MWS shuffler for going 0-2 vs SI. And anyone who has really played this deck would agree :wink:
I wish I could also add some reports too, but my present location prevents this. And with the time differences/weird work schedules, I am sadly fucked up for most online tournaments too.

I am happy to see the SoLS & Sowers are working for you too. It gets more difficult vs Gobs, but otherwise I really feel the other MUs really benefit from SoLS. I think it is the 1st time I see you with an 8 equipments build. Besides the SBs, our lists are therefore becoming closer and closer. Especially if you go back to the 4 MD Chalices. I still think Cloud of Faeries shouldn't be cut from the deck, furthermore if you play the 8 swords. And I really dislike Pestermite in here. Maybe your testings results will differ...

@sasa batora: Just like Eldariel, I am not that worried about the Painter Stone MU. I won't rewrite what he wrote, but I basically agree on everything. Chalice is indeed nuclear bomb in this MU. They do have EEs as outs, but you have FoW. I also probably won't bring extra Needle, and keep the MD one. I reckon they have several ways to annoy you, especially if they are on the play; a t1 Grindstone or Welder does look bad for us. But you do have outs too, and a pretty fast clock.

And Gaia's blessing is indeed not a solution. You don't have Brainstorms to put back some drawn, won't be able to play them, and you would need more than 1 to be completely sure, you have 1 left in library when they go off. Diluting the deck, and clogging the SB seems bad too. I am also not sure this deck will become as widespread in Legacy. I think it is really stronger in T1, where (almost) every deck plays U. I am not saying it is an easy MU for FS, but I think it should be a 50-50 one (depending who starts, luck of the draw, missplays, etc), rather than something ''unwinable'' (like UWr ScepterChant builds with a lot of free counters, Stp, Cunning Wishes, etc)

On a side note, I wonder why you still play Meloku. We all tried it, and all dismissed it. I know there are metagames decisions, but imho 5 equipments also seem quite low (for this deck). May I also ask you vs which decks you bring the 4 Tangle Wires from SB (and what do you remove for them) ? Is it to complement BtBs or Propagandas ?

[Mayk0l]

Chalice is indeed nuclear bomb in this MU. They do have EEs as outs, but you have FoW

Seems you're not really reading what Sasa Batora is saying. You indeed have FoW, a whopping four of them, somewhere in your deck. He has 4 FoWs as well, and if that is not enough to completely nullify that argument, he has 6 REBs as well.

[sroncor1]

@sasa_batora: After looking at your list I think you could help improve your match up by including EE in your deck, if not in the main then at least in the side for games 2 and 3. It would be dead in less matchups than the crypt and gives the deck a large amount of versatility.

Also if you upped the misdirection count you can increase the number of counters you bring in for games 2 and 3. Having only one does not make much sense as it will hardly be a factor without some sort of tutor effect.

Also while these decks may may have 4-6 REB, it isn't like this is anything new for the deck to face. It is very similar to the various thresh lists that run STP along with counter magic. While I see that the deck is a solid combo deck, it doesn't do anything new and nothing it can do does it do it the best in the format.You just have to look at your had and choose which part of the combo you want to disrupt while putting pressure on. You don't need to attack all aspects of its game just one piece and the deck will fail. That is the great thing about Faerie Stompy, it can do both of these things well.

[Clark Kant]

Regarding your list, how do you like the Meloku?

I could see playing a singleton maybe, but not as a 2 of.

What matchups does it help against? I remember the card was in the original list years ago but was promptly cut.

And I'll echo the sentiment to cut the Crypts MD.

Lastly, if you're so insistent on playing 4 Cloud of Fairies, shouldn't you be running more equipment to take advantage of them, the normal set of 6-7.

[Clark Kant]

I'm curious if anyone else has tried or can vouch for a singleton Meloku (two seems excessive).

I'm very intrigued in trying the card out.

[DrewliusMaximus]

I haven't played against Servant's Stone, but I did want to throw something out there: Coma convinced me a while back to play 4 MD Trinket Mages, and I ended up liking the increased flexibility even at the cost of one more legitimate flying threat. It seems like 4 Trinkets would definitely help the Servant's Stone matchup.

That said, I know that Yamaelle and Eladriel play 3 MD Trinkets, and I am not going to argue with their results (I think Yamaelle was putting a 4th Mage in the SB...are you still doing that?)

[sroncor1]

I really do think that using the four mages maindeck really does help add versatility to the deck. To be honest I have never even considered dropping it down to three in the main. If I was going to drop it down I really think you need to move the fourth one into the side so that you can bring it in for the combo match ups. Jitte is also an all-star in the the creature based combo decks that are emerging.

[coma]

@sasa batora: I don't understand main deck meloku and e.e.
Meloku is too slow creature for fs . Slow for its cc , slow for its skill , and has a defensive shape.
It is classic creature for a control game plane.
You don't need to e.e. , if you play (main) 4 cotv and 4 trinket , give you costance to play quite fast ctov 1.
We can't have every thing , because we aren't a solution deck , above all maindeck.
bye:smile:

[coma]

morphling , is an other latebomb ...
sorry , but I don't understand:frown:
If you play cotv 1 stiflenought have some problem...
worship maindeck I don't know who plays! boh?

[Eldariel]

Good job - you can't expect to win every time no matter what deck you're playing unless you're vastly superior as a player and a deckbuilder compared to the rest. Nice that you got there and added that 6th piece of equipment; it's always prudent to have the means to make your creatures into beasts.

Also, that MD EE makes perfect sense given the metagame. I'd say it's a solid choice. Too bad you didn't get to beat up Painter's Stone. And while I understand your logic on Meloku, I still think Mulldrifter #4 is much better. I'm pretty much sold on 4 Drifters.

[DrewliusMaximus]

With 4 MD Mulldrifters, is the fish more readily evoked without SoLS? Or is it still generally hardcast or evoked mostly in combination with an existing SoLS?

[DrewliusMaximus]

I currently run 3 Mulldrifters too, but I have usually approached its evoke as a desperation move rather than aggressive card-drawing. For example, if I have a Drifter in hand, I don't have the 5 mana to hardcast it, and I believe myself to be in "decent" condition (either I already have some answers in hand/play or there isn't an existing threat that I need an answer for), I'll wait a turn or 2 to see if I can hardcast it...unless of course I have SoLS ready or online. Maybe this is the wrong approach though. And I'm wondering if running 4 Drifters means that they should be evoked more aggressively.

By the way, congrats on the results Sasa, and thanks for the input.

[sroncor1]

I think the answer to when to evoke or hard cast lies in what role you are currently playing. If you are in more of an aggro role then the evoke helps to dig deeper and get the disruption peices of FOW to help you maintain your aggresive board position. If you find yourself playing more of a controlling, conservative role, then you want to maximize the card advantage that the mulldrifter provides you. This is when the threat tied to card advantage is the strongest. I know in my playtesting against various Rock decks and landstill decks I almost always hard cast the mulldrifter. However I usually evoke him against combo decks as I want to dig and see those FOW as soon as possible. The real grey area I think lies in playing random aggro decks along with the NQG matchup. Typically I will evoke it against red variants as he is easily burned out and I would rather have the bigger fliers or some sort of disruption piece. Against white variants STP easily can take out any of your guys so I like having the body with the cards. BUt again I think it ultimately comes down to looking at the board position and the deck you are facing and determining what you need most at the present time to win the game. I hope this helps a little.

[Eldariel]

It depends on the match-up and board position. If I'm playing against control, I'll try to always hardcast it to maximize the card advantage it generates. If I'm playing combo, I'm often evoking it if I need to dig for some additional disruption pieces or some such. Against aggro/control and aggro, I generally want to affect the board every turn so I'll try not to evoke Drifters, but generally mana efficiency is the most important thing so if I have nothing more productive to do with the mana (or indeed, if I need to dig for FoW), I'll Evoke. And of course, if I have SoLS, I'll probably evoke.

[coma]

I have a question.
Do someone needs to have misdirection in side?
In this period many players play without or with 1 mis-d , but , with actual control meta , I need to come back to 3rd mis-d in side.
What do you think?

...playing it 2x , when I play versus black deck , I realize don't see it what I need.
I think it is one of 2 our cards can capsize control mu : mis-d and btb.:smile:

[Spardantevil]

I have 2 misdirection SB. It's still awesome agains many spot removal/burn/discard spells. But my side is in fact kind of weird:

1 Propaganda
3 Weatherseed Faeries
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Trinisphere/ Arcane Laboratory
2 Misdirection
2 Silent Arbiter
2 Pithing Needle
1 Trinket Mage

Any thoughts?

[sroncor1]

I actually love having propaganda in the side. It is strong against goblins, zoo, Empty the Warren tokens and ichorid and it can pitch to FOW and imprint. While the Silent Arbiter as been nice in my testing the ease of propaganda's casting cost and it being blue have made in a mainstay in my board. I think the Arcane Lab./Trinisphere is sort of a waste unless you have ungodly amounts of combo in your area. I also would probably run EE main b/c it is a tutorable answer to random things that you will see in a wide open meta. I know that most people aren't doing this currently but I have 1 Tundra in the deck with some fetch lands so that I can run Oblivion Rings in my side. My main reason for doing this is I lost in a Mox tournament semifinals to a Solitary Confinement that I could not deal with. For me these have been the most versatile answer and they seem to buy more time than just running bounce. I hope this helps you a bit.

[coma]

@spardantevil: There are some number card's I don't understand , like

-1x propaganda and 2x silent arbitrer (you have to believe in first or second )
...and it's linked to your main deck , if we don't know your main we can only suppose what better . (for ex. if you play 7/8 swords with color protection it's better silent for its sinergy , otherwise propaganda )

-If you want to play some slot against combo (arcan lab / trini) at least 3x , with 2x you have not much chance to see it.

Others slot are evently personal choice.:tongue:
bye:smile:

[coma]

Sorry for up , but I want to know fs players thought .
It’s clear across-the-board metagame’s change , it headings towards control.
Big employment black and blu colours , with their features.

In regard to fs main , when it is building some cards are logic consequence of fixed choice, (like sols is logically linked to trinket-sower-drifter)…
Are you sure metagame’s evolution change equippe values (I refer to sols over jitte)?

I want to know your position.

Bye and thanks all

[DrewliusMaximus]

Coma, although there isn't enough Legacy play in Houston Texas for me to give great input on the "new metagame", I will say this: when I started to see Snuff Out, Shriekmaw and Smother more frequently, I realized that I did actually like SoLS over Jitte despite it being slower and more expensive. Of course SoLS works so well with newer guys like Drifter and Sower, but I also really like being able to go for a Chalice @2 without hesitation as a proactive obstacle for Goyfs and other stuff.

You've done pretty well with the Jitte build though haven't you?

[coma]

@ drewliusmaximus : Honestly , sorry , but I still prefer jitte .
I know SoLS's skill and its power , but in regard stp is under our cotv @1 , we play SoLS to have only really advantage against (only) 2 black creature (stalker / some enforcer ) and some smother (because snuff out can cast every time).
It's not much for me .

And in a big tournament , with all posible mu , I believe also in a jitte skill .

Moreover in each tournament there was a situation , where if I have had SoLS instead of jitte , I would have lose . (for 1 mana , for different casting and equipping cost).

2 different on skill:
1-more mana expansive
2-actived skill (SoLS only in a player damage / jitte on every damage)

Those are 2 very important different for me.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :tongue:

But I understand also SoLS using , I think it is a good choice in actual metagame.

Sometimes magic is also a sense of personal taste and some choices is for the fun of it.
bye

[DrewliusMaximus]

Coma, I think you're totally correct about certain choices being a matter of taste and play-style while others may be about specific metagaming.

I believe that it is safe to say (and I think you said this a few months ago) that the older Jitte list is built for speed and the newer SoLS is a slightly slower, steadier approach. So, while its too hard to say whether Jitte or SoLS is "better", it is definitely useful to make specific comparisons.

Like you said:

2 different on skill:
1-more mana expansive
2-actived skill (SoLS only in a player damage / jitte on every damage)

But SoLS can't be shut down by a Pithing Needle after it has been equipped, it protects against more removal, recurs many of the creatures, is not Legendary and allows Chalice @2 to be played more readily.

I know that many people have good results with SoLS, and I know that you have done quite well with Jittes, Coma. It just proves that Faerie Stompy is pretty competitive either way.

[coma]

@ drewliusmaximus : I 'm agrre with you .:laugh:
SolS is a yamaelle's idea and I believe it's a good idea .
SoLS has strong interaction with trinket-drifter and sower in particular to have control board.
My question is for a costructive criticism.:tongue:
The meaning is :
What you earn in a control and aggro control mu , almost same what you lose in aggro mu is?
bye and thanks
It's pleasure treat of fs with you :smile:

[Yamaelle]

Well, it is a little sad, this deck is not interesting many people these days.

I guess I was the first posting a build with SoL&S instead of Jitte, and as far as I am concerned I am still happy with that. I was able to win vs some Control decks, like ITF, Landstill or dreadstill, much more constantly; decks where the previous build would have suffered a lot more. Basically, you get rapped g1, and win g2&3. I won’t rewrite what has been mentioned earlier, but pseudo needle immunity, not legendary, allows safer Chalice=2 play, more synergy with all the CIP creatures we now play, seem good reasons to play SoL&S over Jitte. Yet, Jitte is probably still the best legal equipment in the format, so running them cannot be a mistake.

Nowadays, because of Counterbalance, many decks pack Krosan Grip in SB, which is not great for FS. So even if you have Chalice against Stp, between EE, Grips, sometimes Deed, getting a pro W creature is also good, as your Chalices sometimes don’t last very long. And when the proW is not relevant, the proB will (smother, shriekmaw, etc). I also still believe in the 4 Chalices built.

The only sad thing is the Gob MU. Last time, I played against a competent opponent, with an updated Rgb built, I got crushed. I only won 1 game out of 4 I think. Between Grips, hooligans, pyrokenesis and Warren weirding, my plan of getting an Arbitrer, protect it FTW was not very impressive. Furthermore, a single wasteland early game can sometimes be devastating, as an unanswered lackey t1. I don’t really know what to do in this MU. I had cut my proR Faeries, as they were here only vs Gob (overkill versus Burn, DS, other Red decks, etc ), but maybe I will have to fit them again. Or pray that too many Combo decks kick the Goblins away…

Non gob agro is fine. Between the Sowers, or Arbitrers, the equipments and faster clock, it is really seldom an issue. Only worry might be Jitte, but that’s why you have Needles, right?

[coma]

Vs gob Rgb , may be , only solution is propaganda instead of silent arbitrer .
Jitte vs goblin is a nuclear bomb (as you know) , because is also linked to pro-red creatures.
I suppose that goblin 3c normally playing with only 3 mountain in manabase.
You can play propaganda with btb and e.e. , with a more control profile .
With your new build a very aggro mu , playing face to face , is probably a game loss .
In sb he has only 3 krosan to topdeck for your 4 propaganda .
I think !:laugh:

[DrewliusMaximus]

Is it possible that Jitte could be in the sideboard instead of Propaganda or Silent Arbiter? Maybe it would work out if you added a 2nd Engineered Explosives to handle small guys and tokens (or another Crypt if the main concern is Ichorid).

If I'm playing something similar to Yamaelle's list, like:

9 Island
1 Seat
8 Tomb/City
4 Mox

4 Trinket Mage
4 Drake
4 Efreet
4 CoF
3 Mulldrifter
2 Sower
4 FOW
4 Chalice
1 Pithing Needle
4 SoFI
4 SoLS

...maybe the sideboard could look like this:

3 Jitte
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Needle
2 Crypt
1 Sower
3 Back to Basics
3 Sea Sprite

[BreathWeapon]

Glen Elendra Archmage

Faerie Wizard

Flying, Persist

U: Sacrifice Glen Elendra Archmage, counter target non-creature spell.

2/2

This could be a huge bomb in the control match up, it's 2 counter spells against control, 2 chump blocks against aggro and it recurs off Sword of Light and Shadow.

This card seems too good to be true for us.

[Aznopium]

imagine if it was :2: :u: instead of :3: :u:

[Clark Kant]

Could Wake Thrasher have any potential in Fairie Stompy?

Even if all you untap every turn is a Chrome Mox, City of Traitors and Wake Thrasher, it will still attack as a 4/4.

But throw in a Cloud of Faries or Mulldrifter or Sea Drake etc, suddenly you get a 6/6 attacker that easily outclasses Goyf.

[Illissius]

I think you'd need some sort of mana sink so that you don't have to mana burn just to pump it up, though Equipment serves the purpose. Even then that's not ideal with Ancient Tomb.

[Clark Kant]

I usually find myself tapping out to play spells the first several turns playing Fairie Stompy. I'm not sure a mana sink is needed.

Only testing will show for sure if the card is worth running or not though.

[whienot]

Wake Thrasher plays well with Tangle Wire, which has seen some play in Faerie Stompy. But, I'm not sure he really fits here. Faerie Stompy is best when churning out evasive guys. This guy will get chumped all day.

[Eldariel]

Archmage looks solid. Persist, flying and the doozy ability. Imagine dropping it against a Deed-deck; you get to counter their two next removal spell provided that you have a single blue mana open at that point. If you happen to have a Chalice in play, you'll probably be countering their next two Deeds, which looks pretty damn good.

They can Shriekmaw her, sure, but that does nothing about Persist. Did I mention that she survives every sweeper in the format (ok, so that really just means 'she survives Deed')? The card isn't going to break the format or anything, but it seems like a really solid addition to combat control; my only beef is that it may be hard to cast her without running her into Swords or something and the utility outside the control-MU is questionable (seeing that a 2/2 for 4 isn't exactly the best racer ever).

[coma]

I ever think sb has to capsize main's bad mu .
Yamaelle's build has some difficult with gob, but we can dedicate many cards to this mu.

Classic fs 's sideboard:
3 btb ( or winter orb)
1 e.e.
1/2 crypt
0/1 needle (extra)
0/1 sower (because we play with 3x/2x maindeck)
0/3 mis-d ( we can cut it for our new good mu against control)

We can easy obtain 8x to gob mu.

Unfortunately in this mu we have only like removal's effect 4x SoFI. (this is the real problem)

Silent is too breakable because is a target for all artifact removal and above all for all creature removal (gob search it with tutor like matron) .

boh?

bye bye

[BreathWeapon]

Archmage looks solid. Persist, flying and the doozy ability. Imagine dropping it against a Deed-deck; you get to counter their two next removal spell provided that you have a single blue mana open at that point. If you happen to have a Chalice in play, you'll probably be countering their next two Deeds, which looks pretty damn good.

They can Shriekmaw her, sure, but that does nothing about Persist. Did I mention that she survives every sweeper in the format (ok, so that really just means 'she survives Deed')? The card isn't going to break the format or anything, but it seems like a really solid addition to combat control; my only beef is that it may be hard to cast her without running her into Swords or something and the utility outside the control-MU is questionable (seeing that a 2/2 for 4 isn't exactly the best racer ever).

Mulldrifter out and Glen Elendra Archmage in?

Recurring the Archmage via Sword of Light and Shadow is GG vs control, an uncounterable source of counters for their board control and draw engines just redefines the entire match up, you can't pass that up IMO.

[Illissius]

On the other hand, Mulldrifter is a hell of a lot more generally useful. Archmage can block twice, but would you really rather have it against Goblins?

[Humphrey]

Archmage is :3: :u: , im not goin to play her.

[Eldariel]

Mulldrifter out and Glen Elendra Archmage in?

Recurring the Archmage via Sword of Light and Shadow is GG vs control, an uncounterable source of counters for their board control and draw engines just redefines the entire match up, you can't pass that up IMO.

No. Mulldrifter is a draw-spell. Mull is good in just about all match-ups and is one of the few ways to dig for specific cards. It removes the need for a non-creature draw spell in the deck and overall just rocks. Also, Mulldrifter is one of the main reasons the control match-up is decent nowadays.

I'm not sure which slots could fit the Archmage; it seems possibly more like an SB card than anything else. It could come in vs. Storm-combo too.

[DrtyDozen13]

I think the 4 drops (:2::u::u: or :3::u:) should be limited to 4 or less MD.
There for you need to have some sort of split between archmage and sowers. I would personally run it 3 MD sowers with 3 SB archmages.

Also as a way to stabilize the mana base for use with B2B and to make EE better I have been running:
10 islands
1 seat
8 2mana lands
2-3 chrome mox
1-2 mox diamonds
The extra Islands make finding a blue source easier (i've run into far fewer situations where I can't play a sower) and make non basic hate including B2B hurt much less. Since diamonds are fetchable by trinket mage (as well as seat to play the diamond) you only need 1-2 and they give you the extra color to make EE at 2 possible (or even 3 if you get 2 in play, but that would hurt you alot.. most likely). Drawback: having a diamond and 2mana land hand and not having the option to drop a blue card for it. Plus: being able to keep a mana heavy hand with a diamond for a really fast start.

[coma]

I'm agree with eldariel .
Archmage , may be , will be a good card for sb against control deck .
It could be perfect change of sower , for control mu .
:cool:

[Clark Kant]

So has anyone tried out Wake Thrasher in the deck yet.

Second turn attack with a 4/4 while no where near first turn Sea Drake level broken, isn't bad.

With cards like Cloud of Fairies and Chrome Mox what not, and with all your other guys being flyers that attack every single turn, he is almost always atleast a 4/4 attacker, many times bigger than that.

Also has some nice utility with Pestermite.

I really have no idea if he is good enough to be in the deck. And I unfortunately have my build taken apart at the moment so I can't try it. But he seems worth trying.

[Kuma]

I'm pretty new to Faerie Stompy, so I can't say for sure, but isn't one of Faerie Stompy's strengths the fact that virtually all of its creatures fly? Wouldn't running non-utility ground-pounders just hurt our ability to race?

That said, the deck certainly has ways to make him bigger than he would otherwise be, and running equipment certainly helps.

Here's my first attempt at a Faerie Stompy list. Feedback would be greatly appreciated.

10x Island
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Chrome Mox

4x Sea Drake
4x Serendib Efreet
4x Cloud of Faeries
3x Mulldrifter
3x Sower of Temptation
3x Trinket Mage
2x Pestermite

4x Force of Will
4x Sword of Fire and Ice
3x Sword of Light and Shadow
3x Chalice of the Void
1x Pithing Needle

Sideboard
1x Trinket Mage
1x Pithing Needle
1x Chalice of the Void
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Tormod's Crypt
4x Back to Basics
4x Silent Arbiter
2x Misdirection

I'd run more Crypt, but my meta has very few graveyard dependent decks. I'm also not sure about EE, as I can only cast it for 0 or 1 and I don't like the idea of splashing just to be able to cast it at 2.

[Jaiminho]

I'm pretty new to Faerie Stompy, so I can't say for sure, but isn't one of Faerie Stompy's strengths the fact that virtually all of its creatures fly? Wouldn't running non-utility ground-pounders just hurt our ability to race?

The greatest strength of this deck is to be able to run 8 Chalices of the Void. Running less than 4 Trinket Mages and 4 Chalices seems bad. Also, why would Cloud of Faeries be a good racer? It's a 1/1 flyer that usually costs -1 mana, but that's it.

[Kuma]

Also, why would Cloud of Faeries be a good racer? It's a 1/1 flyer that usually costs -1 mana.

Because it's virtually free to cast and can generate mana that lets you drop equipment the same turn which then makes it a serious beater the next turn. Based on my testing, I'd never cut Cloud of Faeries, it's just too good even if it isn't the most inspiring creature in terms of size.

8 Chalices seems devious... Maybe the Sowers should be in the board? Then again, there's lots of Aggro in my meta so I dunno...

I'll have to take this to a few tournaments before I decide.

[DrtyDozen13]

So has anyone tried out Wake Thrasher in the deck yet.I haven't tried it yet and it looks like it has some synergy with some of the other cards in the deck, but it just seems to situational (Sometimes it will be huge sometimes a 1/1, and always without evasion). I don't think it be big enough at the times it will be needed most, however testing may prove otherwise.... plus faerie stompy doesn't play out a ton of permanents.


I'm also not sure about EE, as I can only cast it for 0 or 1 and I don't like the idea of splashing just to be able to cast it at 2.
Try running 1-2 Mox diamond... (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showpost.php?p=251630&postcount=680)
As far as the rest of the build I think propaganda is better than silent arbiter. It's blue, it costs :2::u:, and doesn't get hit by creature or artifact hate.

[sroncor1]

I think the cloud of faeries question has been answered. Anyone who has played the deck can comment on the strength of the card in the deck. While having 8 chalices maindeck is a strength of the deck often times a blind chalice at 1 is not that strong if a play, like against various control decks. I have experimented with various numbers and found that the best number is really meta dependant. If you have lots of NQG or combo then the chalice is backbreaking. In a random field it isn't as strong and sometimes it can be a dead draw. However I think 4 mages need to be run in every build of the deck. EE is also something I will never play without. As a quick failsafe it is unmatched and it allows you to win game 1 against some decks that otherwise you would just have to roll over to. Also I don't think any creature that does not fly should be in the deck besides mages. This is essential in decks that no longer run the jitte as those creatures need to connect to maximize the equipment.

[sroncor1]

Sorry to post twice but mox diamond has no place in this deck. You do not run enough lands and some of your lands have a tendency to blow themselves up. If memory serves me correctly, only one deck ever placed using them and I would just say that sometimes shit happens.

[DrtyDozen13]

Sorry to post twice but mox diamond has no place in this deck. You do not run enough lands and some of your lands have a tendency to blow themselves up. If memory serves me correctly, only one deck ever placed using them and I would just say that sometimes shit happens.

You do have to change some things... try following the link. (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showpost.php?p=251630&postcount=680) It's really only in the test phases for me, but it has worked out well so far. Oh and you can edit your original post and not have to post twice.

[sroncor1]

I just reread my post and want to say that I'm sorry for the tone. They seemed a little hostile and that wasn't my intent. I do like how the mox diamonds do give you a more explosive start but it adds inconsistancies to the deck. Mulldrifter and the like have helped make the deck more consistant and I don't think sarcrificing this for a little more speed is a good idea. If you really want to add colors just through in a dual and some fetches. It hardly changes the way the deck plays unless there is a large amount of nonbasic hate in your area. I have been trying this and I really have not had a problem getting the EE up to 2 when needed.

[Kuma]

So I guess that still begs the question -- Is EE worth running if you can only drop it for zero or one?

[Happy Gilmore]

Mox Diamond does not give you much more explosive starts, because with 18 lands (less so with 20..) you cannot rely on having land for it.

We have discussed duals and fetches in the past. Although I was somehow advocating the usage of few of them, I learned my leson. With so much self-inflicted damage from Tombs and occassional manaburn, the least thing you really need is aditional fetchland life loss...

Have you given Lotus Petal a shot? It does all the same things as an E:SSG, except being instant.

[DrtyDozen13]

I just reread my post and want to say that I'm sorry for the tone. They seemed a little hostile and that wasn't my intent.Don't worry bout it... :smile:
As far as mox diamond goes it can give you a more explosive start with the proper hand, but this will be inconsistent as you would be running both chrome and diamond (there have been times where I wished I had the other and had to mulligan because of it, and never run more than 2 diamonds, and I'd say no more than 4 moxes altogether). It does add some inconstancies, but was done to maximize the use of Back to Basics and Engineered explosives. In some mild testing I have found the extra utility to outweigh the added inconsistencies. And yes you should at least run EE in the board even if you can only play it for 0 or 1.

I have not tested with lotus petal as of yet, but it seems like your trying to add explosiveness to a deck that is already very explosive while at the same time adding more card disadvantage to a deck rife with card disadvantage. Heck we run a creature (mulldrifter) that I've never seen run in any other tier 1/2 build just to try and make up for the heavy disadvantage faerie stompy puts on itself (note: I love mulldrifter in this build, I've just never seen it any where else except casual decks).

[Nihil Credo]

Have you given Lotus Petal a shot? It does all the same things as an E:SSG, except being instant.
Neither Dragon nor Elephant Stompy would ever run Spirit Guides if they couldn't also play as Grizzly Bears.

[Clark Kant]

You guys think Snakeform could be halfway decent in the deck?

First of all, it cantrips, fits the curve perfectly and pitches to FoW and Chrome Mox. That in itself is solid.

Secondly, it gets your opponents biggest baddest dude small enough to be taken out with Trinket Mage, Cloud of Faries or just one Jitte counter, or 2 damage from SoFI. He's actually extremely solid with equipment all around.

Thirdly, he's a fantastic combat trick. Killing a Goyf or a Dreadnought with a Trinket Mage, trading a Cloud of Faries with a Tombstalker or Exalted Angel are all gamebreaking plays.

Yes, the card is only good in aggro metas, but I think in those metas, he's superior to Psionic Blast and not just because he cantrips!

Psi Blast not only inflicts damage to you, but is now almost never good enough to kill any of the popular creatures in the format. It can't take out Tarmogoyf, Tombstalker, or Dreadnought. Snakeform does so, and does it all while cantripping too.

Snakeform is also solid against Sutured ghoul based combo decks, regenerators and such.

[Kuma]

It would also allow the occasional EE at 2. Question is: What would be cut for it? It's pretty hard to find slots in this deck.

[Jaiminho]

Snakeform is also solid against Sutured ghoul based combo decks, regenerators and such.

Snake Form does nothing to stop regeneration. Whether you cast it in response to regeneration or they regenerate in response to you casting it, it still does the same thing: regenerate. It's an effect laid upon the creature, not an ability. Not like regeneration matters in any format, anyway.

[DrtyDozen13]

Snake Form does nothing to stop regeneration.I think what he meant was reanimation, because of all the high powered creatures they tend to drop. But no tier 1/2 build should really worry about that deck either....

[Henrik]

I bet this is a question that hardcore faerie-players is asked frequently:

What can I substitute the sea drakes for, if I can't get hold of any?
I've been searching the net and where I live (sweden) noone wants to sell them, and the ones on ebay tend to attract a lot o buyers.

The rest of the deck is no problem, I've got it all.

[Eldariel]

You can play the deck without Sea Drake - no, it won't be as good, but it's doable. I covered as much in the first post. At 3-drop slot, the options my latest list isn't using are:

4th Pestermite
Weatherseed Faeries
Phyrexian Warbeast
Silkbind Faerie
Cloud Elemental


They all serve different purposes and none of them is Sea Drake, but they'll get you by. The deck will be better with Drakes, and why wouldn't it (the deck is built for Drake, after all), but you can compete without them.

[Sun_Ra]

One of the local Faerie Stompy players runs Wormfang Drake instead of Sea Drake. It's a big body for the cost, and it doubles as Deed insurance, but I see him lose games that should've been wins with a Jitte/SoFI on the board and a Wormfang Drake in hand.

[Eldariel]

If the deck ran 2-3 more creatures, Drake would be an option. The problem is, it doesn't count as a creature for that purpose itself, so you'd need to cut non-creature spells for it. Manlands could help there.

[Henrik]

I've been testing myself now, starting out by proxys as sea drakes. It is a fact that I guess most of you agree on, that the explosive sea drake play r1 only happens so often, and either way, I prefer to drop no creature with a body before I have a chalice in play. Also, I win a lot of games without even seeing a sea drake. So, I personally think that the drakes are in fact replaceable.

My suggestions for substitutes are

more pestermites
man-o'-war
rishadan airship (strong budget contender imho)
shadow-creatures, looter il-kor or thalakos scout.

[FoolofaTook]

Man-o'war as a 2-of is strong in any deck running equipment and ways to prevent the opponent from recasting what it bounces. I play it in a Ur Stompy variant and I hear a lot of "who ever thought that card was any good?"

[Maveric78f]

Is it really a big issue to find Sea Drakes now that FS is less and less popular? Is it still expensive?

[Aznopium]

Is it really a big issue to find Sea Drakes now that FS is less and less popular? Is it still expensive?

Yeah, FS might a bit less popular but a set of Sea Drakes is just hard to find. There is just a low supply of them. still gonna cost you 35-40 each.

[Spardantevil]

Hey guys,

I'm presently testing for the next France Legacy Championship, so I'd like to see with you some points resulting from my tests:

-The Rb Goblins MU is awesomely BAD. They're as quick as they were before except that now they have control elements that totally fucks FS up. The Warren Weirding + Wort lock is extremely hard to fight, knowing that even if you try to play around it they will keep attacking, and there's almost nothing you can do against their Pilledrivers now that jitte is gone (the only thing being attacking with SoFI... not really transcendant). And SolS is REALLY useless.

Post-side they can get more contol elements and play around pro-R faeries so easily it's not even funny. I've been in games where I had like: arbiter equipped with SoFI, Sea Drake and Weatherseed Faerie in play and still lost because of Pyrokinesis+ double Warren Weirdings.

Pre side it's 60/40 for FS but post side it becomes 70/30 for goblins with this list.

These apocalyptical results made me change my mind about Silent Arbiter: he IS bad. Recurring it with SoLS is so conditional it never happens. The fact that he is a creature AND an artifact makes it too much vulnerable. Plus the terrible casting cost at :4: . Propaganda is a bomb. It perfectly fits the curve, protecting it is really easy (CotV @ one and it's game over). Plus it's actually stronger than Arbiter against Ichorid. There's no way I want to see him back in my side.

-Landstill is not a really bad MU, thanks to SoLS and (recurring) Mulldrifter. I really don't miss Jitte because of this. Glen Elendra Archmage really is sexy on paper. In the facts, it's really another thing. You can't equip it. You can't count on it to race (she's really weak). Best thing about her is that she pitches to FoW and Chrome Mox...

-Same for GBWRock.dec (both are really overplayed around here) SoLS and recurring Drifters are awesome. Tell me if I'm no doing it right, but I actually keep my 4 Chalices against Rock. @ 1 it cuts cabal therapy, thoughtseize and swords. @ 2 it cuts Tarmogoyf and Bob. Sure, they'll crack a deed/EE/ Vindicate it. But they lose so much time to do it that you almost already won. Sometimes I miss Psy Blast, because leaving my opponent at 2-4 life after the deed is actually pretty frequent, and he has no way to counter it.

-Through my testings I came to think about Intuition. Why aren't we playing this card? Doubles the number of the cards we want to see in every MU (more particulary, Propaganda against gobs). Has it been tested? Rejected? Why?

- I didn't like Sower at all. I played TfK instead, and I'm satisfied with it. What is it supposed to be strong against?


Edit: Woops, forgot the list :p

// Lands
1 [MR] Seat of the Synod
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [EX] City of Traitors
9 [UNH] Island

// Creatures
3 [LRW] Mulldrifter
3 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
3 [FD] Trinket Mage
4 [UL] Cloud of Faeries
4 [P2] Sea Drake
4 [R] Serendib Efreet

// Spells
1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
4 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
4 [AL] Force of Will

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
SB: 1 [FD] Trinket Mage
SB: 2 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [US] Back to Basics
SB: 3 [US] WeatherSeed Faeries
SB: 3 [FD] Silent Arbiter

Changes: MD: -3 Sower/+3 TfK
SB: -3 Arbiter/+3 Propaganda

Gonna try: -3 TfK/+3 Intuition, Psy Blast somewhere (again), Heap Doll.

[Illissius]

-Through my testings I came to think about Intuition. Why aren't we playing this card? Doubles the number of the cards we want to see in every MU (more particulary, Propaganda against gobs).


Doubles the mana costs of those cards.

[Eldariel]

To gain advantages in other match-ups, you must give them up in others. As Goblins became less of a metagame presence, it was the correct move to give up percentages vs. Goblins to gain percentages vs. the rest of the field (Sower is incredible against, among others, Threshold, Aggro Loam, Survival, Rock, etc. - basically, anything playing Tarmogoyf or biggers). Also, thanks to the present structure many Goblins-decks use for removal, Sower is actually very relevant against them; Weirdings falls flat on its face vs. Sower ("Yes, I'd like to sacrifice your Goblin and get few extras please") and modern builds tend to play only ~2 copies of Incinerator.

I cannot really see how Goblins could be so abysmally bad - you still win whenever you resolve a Chalice at 1 on the play, especially since most Goblins-players still insist on not playing enough lands to function without cheaters. Yes, the lack of Jitte is a big drawback there and the MU isn't quite as good as it was, but between Pestermite and the big beaters, you should be able to hold the fort and feed relatively small ones to Weirdings while beating the face in. Weirdings/Wort would indeed be a problem (unless you manage a Chalice at 2 - a prudent precaution all things considered), but it's relatively slow and Wort is still perfectly counterable, so it's not something you couldn't deal with - just an extra reason to win fast instead of letting them get into the midgame (which is why I dislike Propaganda as a solution - you're playing right into their pockets by letting them start taking control).

My present anti-Goblins sideboard is simple 3 Jittes + 3 Blue Elemental Blasts (for the games where I'm on the draw - it felt prudent to add additional means of dealing with Lackey and cards to counter Warchiefs, Piledrivers and company while also removing Worts and other problems). On the draw, I usually side all, or all but one Chalice out (that one Chalice is to be played at 2 in the event of reaching midgame) depending on whether I need to deal with 4 Weirdings or not; with Needles, Hydroblasts and Engineered Explosives performing the defensive tasks in the early game. This sideboard felt the best, since Blue Elemental Blast has wide applications against Aggro Loam, Burn and even some combo-decks, while Umezawa's Jitte further gives tools against the red decks, and other swarm decks like Elves, making the deck stronger than ever against them with SoFI, Jitte and Sower as removal.

[Jak]

They keep recurring Wierding via Wort. Every turn they keep your threat off the board.

[Eldariel]

Jak. was responding to the deleted post.

[coma]

@ spardantevil : You write many rigth thoughts .
With this list , you will have good mu against all control decks , for SoSL-difter-sower recursions .
With this list , you will have some problems vs aggro decks like gob.
The problem is gob is a tier 1 , and it is normally play against it in a competitive tournament .
Only solution is a side devote to fight it : jitte , pro red creature , and propaganda ( if you like it).
Almoust 7 slots vs gob .

Because this list is slower than old .
Is only a choice.
bye bye:smile: :laugh:

[Spardantevil]

The thing is aggro is quite unplayed in my area. If it was I'd go back to the old version in a second, but it's not so I have to do as I can. But finding myself losing against some random sligh/burn.dec w/flame javelin actually hurts. I've been thinking about these SB jitte without ever finding the courage to work it out, so let's brainstorm for it, dear FS fellow players.

Eldariel's (last known) SB:
SB: 3 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [US] Back to Basics
SB: 3 [MM] Misdirection
SB: 2 [A] Control Magic

Eldariel's is playing the 1-Chalice-MD version, which I will never play. Chalice @1 is too strong not to be played in my meta, being infested of StP, Stifle, Brainstorms and such... So let's not discuss about it.

3 Back to Basics: undiscutable. It takes the win from so much situations and against so much bad MUs it's almost impossible not to play. 3 is the right number.

3 tormod's crypt: Discutable. To get in against ichorid I guess. I actually don't like it, as it is the Ichorid-Hate n°1 played in an awesome number of decks, the ichorid player is ALWAYS prepared against Tormod's Crypt (4 CotV @0, 4 needle) so I kinda prefer Propaganda against Icho ( which is, sorry to insist, strong against goblins). But Crypt also "rapes" aggro loam so it's not a card tu cut. Still I wouldn't play 3. I'd prefer to play the 4th Trinket Mage instead of the 3rd Crypt. What do you think?

1 Pithing Needle: Very good, strong against almost everything. Almost undiscutable.

3 Misdirection: Hm, can't really decide. Against decks playing spot removal and/or discard I guess. Do you play them over Force of Will or in addition?

2 Control Magic: 4th and 5th Sower. I don't know :/. Isn't it a little too much?


Yamaelle's (last known) SB:
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Trinket Mage
1 Engineered Explosive
1 Tormod’s Crypt
2 Pithing Needle
3 Back to Basics
3 Sea Sprite
3 Silent Arbitrer

1 Sower: Understandable, 4th one to bring in against heavy control.dec.

1 Trinket: To me, impossible not to play. He is too awesome not to be played. Virtually gets the artifact toolbox numbers higher, I awlays like to see one.

1 EE: I bring it against Belcher, Ichorid and sometimes Thresh (for mongooses/tops, but it's not this awesome compared to the raw power of Chalice). I like it, until something better comes, i'll keep it.

1 Tormod's Crypt: already seen. I'd play a second instead of the 2nd needle because it's largely stronger against Loam.

2 Needle: Already seen.

3 Back to Basics: Same.

3 Sea Sprite: I love pro-R Faeries, I love Rebecca Guay, but I still prefer Weatherseed Faeries. Yeah Sea sprites comes quicklier (just needs 1 island and 1 Chrome Mox to be dropped on T1, whereas Weatherseed needs a 2 mana land), but it's actually worsee thant the other if you have a 2mana-land. In a classic way(1 island, 1 2mana-land in play), you'll have to burn yourself (1 with city, 3 with tomb) in MU where lifeloss actually matters.

3 Silent Arbiter: Already said everything I thought about him.

Mixing these two leads me to this sideboard:

3 Back to Basics
1 Trinket Mage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engeneered Explosives
2 Tormod's crypt

8 slots that respond to many many strategies all over Legacy. The rest actually depends. I'm currently thinking of:

3 Propaganda
3 Jitte
1 Misdirection

Some kind of an anti-aggro SB, like coma said. Damn the pro-R, jitte is stronger against more decks. Misdi could act as a 5th FoW (mainly for stuff like snuff out/vindicate/Pyrokinesis).

What do you guys think? Am I forgetting something? Do you think it's good? Do you think I should in fact play something else?



PS: sorry for annoying you all with such big posts which are not innovating anything, but I like to be sure about what I do, and I like to progress in MtG :smile: . Thanks!

[SuckerPunch]

Cloud Spirit or Rishdian Airship maybe pretty good substitubes for Sea Drake.

In general both cards are very solid at the moment. Cards like Extripate and other 1 damage burn spells meant to deal with Lackey disappeared from the meta completely.

[Clark Kant]

Guys, I already asked this but...

Snakeform, yeah or nay?

It brings any threat within range of Trinket Mage, Mulldrifter, Cloud of Faires, Jitte counter, SOFI's 2 damage etc. All while cantripping and fitting the curve perfectly.

Seems like the best way to deal with creatures now the Psionic Blast has been obsoleted by Tarmogoyf.

Perhaps a sideboard card?

[Rush]

I believe I was just pwned on MWS by this deck (as in someone on these threads). Turns out, Propaganda is a devastating card for Ichorid (then again, I was new to playing the deck).

EDIT: Also, how is the deck? I've been looking for a deck to dump my playset of Mint Sea Drakes and Force of Wills into, and I've been thinking of this deck, since it whooped me earlier.

[Clark Kant]

Face it, these are not Fairie Stompy lists. You can't be called Fairie Stompy if you run a grand total of two fairies.

If you want to see a real fairie stompy list, look over...

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showpost.php?p=262144&postcount=9

Now that's a deck that earns the name, Fairie Stompy.

So, does anyone have any thoughts on Snakeform yet. Has anyone gotten around to trying it?

[Eldariel]

Clark: Just don't get into the name arguments, ok? Those really never get anywhere - FS's name was established for a deck with Drakes and Efreets way before Faeries in any kind or form were potentially competitive.

I have yet to try Snakeform - it's kind of hard to fit the card in there without cutting something better. That said, it could be a decent card against Goyfs and Aggro Loam, so I'll have to think if I should try it.

Spardantevil: I'm playing a 4-Chalice version online. Fact is that while 1-Chalice version is better vs. control and BGW, online those archetypes just don't exist in the numbers I see them offline, so the change is not warranted. My latest sideboard:
// Lands
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
9 [UNH] Island

// Creatures
1 [SC] Shoreline Ranger
4 [AN] Serendib Efreet
4 [FD] Trinket Mage
4 [P2] Sea Drake
3 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
4 [LRW] Mulldrifter
3 [LRW] Pestermite

// Spells
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
3 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
1 [SOK] Pithing Needle

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [US] Back to Basics
SB: 2 [MM] Misdirection
SB: 3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 [A] Blue Elemental Blast


As you can see, I took steps to help with Goblins, especially on the draw. BEBs have been a surprise hit: Aggro Loam really hates the card (and Chalices are laid at 2 there anyways), it really further shores up the Burn-match, additional answers to 1-drop Joblins on the draw are awesome and overall, the card has served its purpose.

Further, Jitte is a recent addition - I figured there're enough matches where you want Jitte over SoLS (starting with Goblins) that I tossed it back in. The only thing I'd want on the SB is a 4th Sower of Temptation, but bleh.

[Clark Kant]

FS's name was established for a deck with Drakes and Efreets way before Faeries in any kind or form were potentially competitive.


Everyone and their grandmother already knows that Eldariel. No need to get overprotective over the name. I really need to stop being sarcastic online. It doesn't translate as well as it does in real life.

[Rush]

Why have you excluded Cloud of Faeries from your new list? Are they really that unwanted?

[Roman Candle]

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [US] Back to Basics
SB: 2 [MM] Misdirection
SB: 3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 [A] Blue Elemental Blast


As you can see, I took steps to help with Goblins, especially on the draw. BEBs have been a surprise hit: Aggro Loam really hates the card (and Chalices are laid at 2 there anyways), it really further shores up the Burn-match, additional answers to 1-drop Joblins on the draw are awesome and overall, the card has served its purpose.

Further, Jitte is a recent addition - I figured there're enough matches where you want Jitte over SoLS (starting with Goblins) that I tossed it back in. The only thing I'd want on the SB is a 4th Sower of Temptation, but bleh.

If you're having trouble with Goblins, why not play Propaganda in the board? It's good against Goblins, Thresh, and especially Ichorid. I dunno what I'd replace though.

[Rush]

If you're having trouble with Goblins, why not play Propaganda in the board? It's good against Goblins, Thresh, and especially Ichorid. I dunno what I'd replace though.
I would suggest putting Jitte in the main and replace them in the board with Propaganda. As for Thresh, don't they usually run Krosan Grip in the side?

[Eldariel]

Regarding Pestermite vs. Cloud of Faeries: I'm playing Pestermite over Cloud since there's a number of decks right now that run a lot of removal. That means whichever creature sticks around better be able to finish the job off and therefore the 2/1 is better than 1/1. Also, Pestermite is great for breaking Standstills at opportune moments, Time Walking control (when they'd reach 4 mana), dropping Pseudo-haste threat at the EOT and thanks to the untap ability, it can still pull off those flurry turns (although not as well) Cloud of Faeries is known for and being a threat opponent worries about when mana is left untapped (after they've seen it played at least once).

Right now, I feel Pestermite is superior, mostly due to the versatility and size. Also, the reason for my present configuration is again the fact that Goblins and company aren't the primary metagame threat; they're something you need to be prepared for, but not the primary deck to aim to beat. Sword of Light and Shadow tends to be far stronger versus Threshold-variants, BGW and especially control-decks with w, b or both than Jitte as it allows me to dominate the war of attrition, and gives me threats that can simply ignore StP, recurring Shriekmaws and all similar nonsense (and fly through Tombstalkers, Mystic Enforcers, Decree-tokens and so on). Jitte is better against aggro, SoLS against control, and right now I'm more worried about control than aggro.


Regarding Propaganda: Propaganda was always an issue for me - it never seems right to bring it in over anything. All the MD cards do something alone while Propaganda...well, Propaganda slows opponent down for a mana investment. In other words, I spend some amount of mana so that opponent has to spend mana too. That just doesn't feel too good. It doesn't give me a threat, it doesn't reduce opponent's life total, it doesn't even protect my threats. Therefore, I don't see how it could take the slot of a creature nor the slot of equipment meaning that the only thing I could cut for it are Chalices or Force of Wills. As I feel both tend to be better cards than Propaganda in most matches (the singular exception would probably be Ichorid, which again doesn't have enough metagame presence to warrant specific hate), I don't see bringing it in.

In fact, I played in the last Salvation-tournament to Top 8 with 3 Propagandas on the side and didn't sideboard them in ONCE. Not once over 6 rounds. When playing vs. Goblins, I often notice that their aggro plan isn't really a problem, but when one lets them into midgame and they start crapping their hand on board each turn drawing a new hand, things get dicey. From this standpoint, it almost feels like playing a Propaganda is in their advantage as you spend a turn not playing threats, but instead forcing them to pay for attacking. I feel Jitte is much stronger SB-card in this match-up along with a broad range of other utility against red decks and other suicidal aggro.


Regarding Goblins: Presently I'm not experiencing much trouble vs. Goblins. I mean, the match-up is losable as always (and the newer versions are almost certainly harder than the mono-red variants I tested against when I first built the deck), but the Chalice @ 1 wins combined with the ability to bring BEBs and EE to slow them down on the draw enough for Jitte/SoFI to take over has been quite successful. I feel the worst match-up remains the variety of BGW midrange decks chockful of removal, Deeds and recursion.

Clark: Pardon the tone, a billion people saying similar stuff seriously makes me wary of such comments. Also, the fact that your post was so short kind of made it feel like that comment was the point of the whole message, adding to the illusion of you meaning what you said.

[Aznopium]

Eldariel -
Since you are using EE in the SB, wouldn't you need to play a dual-land/fetch land to allow you to use EE to wipe the board of :2: casting cost permanents?

Unless it's sole reason was just there to clear the board of :1:/:0: cc perms

EDIT: grammar

[Eldariel]

I used to run one along with fetches. Turns out, it isn't worth opening yourself up to Wasteland, Blood Moon and making your own Back to Basics weaker. The fact that fetches open you up to Stifle and cause further damage to you didn't help either.

EE is worth it at 1 though - the primary reason it was included in the first place was to deal with Pithing Needles and Goblin-tokens. As an added benefit, it's quite awesome in the Goblins-MU, since they rely on their 1-drops for mana cheating (and are often manascrewed when denied Vials/Lackeys), can be used to break Worship-locks in the Threshold-MU (by killing the Nimble Mongeese) and so on. It's generally too clunky to drop at 2, but at 1 and 0, it's pretty quick to cast and therefore quite handy. Most of the 2-drops can be dealt with alternative means anyways (Survival et al. meets Needle/Force and the creatures can all be Sowered).

As I said, I tested EE with 2-colour lands, but I just never ended up in a sitiuation where I'd want to cast it at 2 for a variety of reasons - those sitiuations are rare enough and those sitiuations when you'd have the mana and the means to find EE are even more rare. It's just not worth it.

[JeroenC]

In the right meta, I believe it can be worth it with duals. I still play 2 fetch and 2 duals. It makes your manabase a bit more shaky (especially since I don't play Shoreline Ranger) but I found that it helps against Loam, ThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh and Landstill (god I hate Goyf).

[coma]

@JeroenC: Spalsh , in fs , in majority of situations is a choice that wheaken this deck .
Normally we have to make , for our deck , balance and firm choices.

@spardantevil : your latest sb is good .
Now you try , and understand if is enough for your need , because we are all different , so we have different needs.

bye:laugh:

[JeroenC]

@coma: I know. However I'm already in a pretty bad meta for me and being able to play an EE@2 is really helpful.

Edit: though I've realised that I'm underestimating the power of Back to Basics with that statement... I'm dropping the option of EE@2.

Edit2: @ Eldariel: don't you ever have a lack of lands? Isn't seventeen a bit on the low side? I play 18 and I'd like to go up to 19...

Edit3(hopefully the last): my list...

// Lands
4 [EX] City of Traitors
10 [IA] Island (2)
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb

// Creatures
4 [P2] Sea Drake
4 [R] Serendib Efreet
4 [LRW] Mulldrifter
4 [FD] Trinket Mage
3 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
3 [LRW] Pestermite

// Spells
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
1 [10E] Pithing Needle
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [A] Control Magic
SB: 3 [CH] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 4 [US] Back to Basics

I'm tinkering with the SB. I'm thinking of dropping a Needle and an Explosives but I don't know what to fill that hole up with immediately.
I'd also like to open up two maindeck slots. One for an Island or a Seat of the Synod and one for a one mana Equipment. What's the best one?

[coma]

Normally…

Necessary mana base is 22 sources , and if you play 4 trinket you can play 1 seat of the sinod.

I don’t know what you need , but sb fs cards’ are :
Mis-d 0/3
Btb / winter orb 3 (4 is too much)
Control creature effect’s 2/3 (sower, control magic , binding grasp ,…)
Needle 1/2 (because normally 1 is main)
E.e. 1/2 (if you play main 1 is enough , I think!)
Crypt 1/2 ( you have to remember play 4 trinkets )
Pro-red creature 1/3
Equippe 1/3
Propaganda/silent arbitrer 3/4
Bouncer effects 2/3

This is what I learn it . I learn to see the builds of good fs players .
Then it is a question of your personal choices , linked what you need .

I hope to answered you.

Bye :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :cool: :laugh:

[JeroenC]

Hmmm... I'm always going to play four Back to Basics or none. I'm a stubborn idiot, sorry. ;) I am considering lowering the numbers of Needles and EE, as 3 of both in side (with one main) is a bit too much. You may have a point that lowering crypts might be a good idea too.
Which are the bounce effects you might recommend? I suppose Rushing River?

[coma]

My answer is about only the the classic choices.
I'm agree with you .
Each person has to believe in his thoughts.

Yes! Bouncer means 2 rushing river :
to a good race
to an answer against enchantment

About the number of sb cards ... I think they are only to :
1 have some answer to a particular strategy
2 put a thread that give us right time to win with our fast race

...because hardly we are able to complete opponent lock.

Bye:smile:

[SuckerPunch]

Here is a novel idea that I think has really good merit and is worth developing on.

Cunning Wish.

It's 2U casting cost is perfect.

Put some utility instants in your sideboard, Misdirection, Daze, that one free to cast bounce spell for creatures from time spiral etc and grab which ever instant suits the situation best. Yes the free instants take precedence, but nonfree ones like Annul, Fact or Fiction posibly Snakeform, P. Blast, Stifle etc may deserve a look too.

Misdirection isn't good enough to be maindecked. But in select situations, it can lead to giant game swings. Misdirecting your opponents removal is a golden play. Daze isn't good enough to be maindecked, but it's absolutely fantastic in some scenarios. That free bounce spell can really save your ass against a resolved Dreadnought/Tombstalker. You don't have any way to deal with resolved threats at the moment.

I think the idea is worth a look.

[Eldariel]

Edit2: @ Eldariel: don't you ever have a lack of lands? Isn't seventeen a bit on the low side? I play 18 and I'd like to go up to 19...

If you read my list, you'll notice that I play 22 mana sources. 9 Islands, 4 Chrome Moxes, Shoreline Ranger, 4 City of Traitors, 4 Ancient Tombs. If I'm inclined to keep a 2-lander, it'll have a City or a Tomb anyways and therefore Shoreline Ranger is really no worse in that sitiuation. And it has the potential to be pitches, imprinted and so on. I've been more than hapy with it.


I'm tinkering with the SB. I'm thinking of dropping a Needle and an Explosives but I don't know what to fill that hole up with immediately.
I'd also like to open up two maindeck slots. One for an Island or a Seat of the Synod and one for a one mana Equipment. What's the best one?

Well, I personally am perfectly happy with 2 Needles and 1 EE between MD and side. I've rarely wished for more (sometimes more Needles, but rarely enough). 4th Sower and 1 Control Magic > 2 Control Magics.

As for MD slots, the easiest to open would be dropping one EE and one Pestermite/Trinket Mage. I suggest an Island over Seat (generally you can Trinket for Chrome Mox anyways when you need a blue source - basically, when you're fetching mana sources, your lands are under attack and that means non-land mana sources are gold - almost always; losing games due to the lack of Seat is more rare than losing games due to Wasteland/Artifact removal on Seat or due to B2B on your own Seat). As for the SB, I've liked Blue Elemental Blasts (vs. Aggro Loam [Chalice at 2, so BEB works], Burn, Goblins, etc!) and Misdirections quite a lot lately. Extra Jittes are sweet too.

[coma]

Don't play 1 seat and play shoreline I think it is a too dangerous situation :cry: .(when we haven't a perfect hand).

Sorry to eldariel , but I have a different thought.

Problem of shoreline is not the land count : 18 , 17,5 , 17,8 ,...
We can count 18 lands , but :
...if I play shoreline means I need a land.
So example :
1-play tomb to cycle = I lose for free 2 pv (in this deck) and I expose oneself to wast .
2-play city to cycle = I wast my land when I play island .

Main reasons to play it :
1 to pitch (isn't enough):rolleyes:
2 to play it :rolleyes: (I believe fs have always better creature than 3/4 cc u5):wink:

Seat of sinod is a mono good card , in many bad situations I win for it .:smile:
It give me right mana to cast my decisive spell.

Thanks and bye

[Eldariel]

Don't play 1 seat and play shoreline I think it is a too dangerous situation :cry: .(when we haven't a perfect hand).

Sorry to eldariel , but I have a different thought.

Problem of shoreline is not the land count : 18 , 17,5 , 17,8 ,...
We can count 18 lands , but :
...if I play shoreline means I need a land.
So example :
1-play tomb to cycle = I lose for free 2 pv (in this deck) and I expose oneself to wast .
2-play city to cycle = I wast my land when I play island .

2 life from Tomb is very rarely a problem. City is admittedly annoying, which means that I generally don't keep City+Shoreline hand without another City at the very least. Still, those come up rarely enough for it to be a problem - I've found the extra pitchability easily making up for it. Seat of the Synod simply became an Island. Better synergy with Back to Basics. Same applies to Shoreline Ranger.


Main reasons to play it :
1 to pitch (isn't enough):rolleyes:
2 to play it :rolleyes: (I believe fs have always better creature than 3/4 cc u5):wink:

Seat of sinod is a mono good card , in many bad situations I win for it .:smile:
It give me right mana to cast my decisive spell.

Thanks and bye

I generally find I can wish for Chrome Mox almost always when I would want to wish for Seat. And Seat I find is too much of a liability with all the Blood Moons, Back to Basics, Wastelands and company in the format. It simply seems to pay off less than playing it costs.

If my manabase is under attack, I'd wish for Chrome Mox anyways, since they can't Sinkhole it, Devastating Dreams it, Wasteland it and so on, so while it's more expensive as a mana source, it's also more reliable. Yes, sometimes I'd want to fetch for Seat, but I find those times are rare enough to warrant not including it.


Shoreline Ranger is often important for Force/Mox pitch and I've won games by hardcasting it. Sometimes the deck just wants one threat, any threat, and Shoreline Ranger hits the bill when landflooded. Mostly I just pitch it to Moxes, but it has enough utility to warrant one over an Island in my experience.

[coma]

Right.
I understand your point of view , and you are right .
Your opinions make sense .
I understand your meta it's an only control meta (no aggro) , so I dig your choices , but :
-to wish mox instead of seat (costs an extra blue spell) , and we haven't always an extra blue spell to pitch
-when wish seat normally You haven't problems of wasteland , because opponent's wastelands hit our city/ancient , to lock our acceleration .

For btb I'm agree with you .

I haven't courage to play shoreline instead of mana source.

bye

[Eldariel]

Small report from the Source Tournament:

True to my deck, I pick up Faerie Stompy for the tournament with the following list:

// Lands
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
9 [UNH] Island

// Creatures
1 [SC] Shoreline Ranger
4 [AN] Serendib Efreet
4 [FD] Trinket Mage
4 [P2] Sea Drake
3 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
4 [LRW] Mulldrifter
3 [LRW] Pestermite

// Spells
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
3 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
1 [SOK] Pithing Needle

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [US] Back to Basics
SB: 2 [MM] Misdirection
SB: 3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 [A] Blue Elemental Blast


It served me very well the whole day. Back to Basics was less than stellar, but mostly since I simply didn't face that many decks going to 4+ colours. I did bring them in, but they were mostly ineffective in the Landstill-matches I had and other than that, they were pretty weak. Misdirections I didn't get to use much at all due to my match-ups, but I still feel they belong. Blue Elemental Blast was surprisingly awesome, but again, that may be due to match-ups as I played against multiple Aggro Loam-builds and a Sligh-variant. Sideboard Glen Elendra Archmage is something worth consideration to bring in over Sower vs. control. Anyways, on to the tournament:

Round 1, Jak. with Enchantress

G1 I win the roll and open with a mulligan. He has a rather slow hand, I force a turn 2 Enchantress's Presence to buy time. Turn 2 I drop an Efreet off Mox (pitching Trinket Mage - a mistake, I had a second Efreet in hand) and 2 Islands and we're off to beat. He drops Ground Seal and Elephant Grass to stall me and I pay to beat with my Efreet. He wrecks the Grass and Replenishes. I simply keep beating. He chains a bunch of Gaea's Touches and a Karmic Justice into play and starts drawing into Argothian. I reply with a Sword of Fire and Ice instead of swinging. He gets a Serra's Sanctum and more Enchantress Effects, tutoring for Solitary Confinement at the EoT. I equip my Efreet and swing him down to 7 with lethal on board. Next turn he goes nuts with Enchantress-effects, drops Words of War that I Force and lands one of his Confinements, EoT discarding another Confinement and a ton of crap. Now I'm hoping for a Needle to stop his Words of War and force him to deck. I can't beat though so no extra draws for me and I don't find a Force or a Needle. The inevitable Replenish draws him no cards so he doesn't come within the decking range and with Words in play, I do a quick [/part], eating lethal x few hundred.

I bring in the extra Needle, some Back to Basics, Tormod's Crypts (I can lock him out pretty easily when he needs Replenish; this is used to complete the lockdown) and probably EE or something over my Sowers that are vanilla 2/2s against a deck without real removal.

G2 I have turn 1 Drake. He has Elephant Grass and I Chalice at 2 instead of swinging. I keep laying lands and start beating on turn 3. He lands Enchantress's Presence which costs him the Grass and I take the chance to drop Sword of Light and Shadow (handy for also passing Hoofprint/Mesa tokens and protecting the threat from O-Ring in addition to increasing damage!) and swing. He gets a Sanctum, but only has a Ground Seal to cycle into my Chalice and burns for W. I swing him down to 2 and Back to Basics his Sanctum. He can't go off for nuts and I take #2.

G3 He has a slow hand with a turn 2 Ground Seal while I drop Trinket Mage finding Chalice. He has Sterling Grove that I assume will find a Presence so I go for the lockdown, using the Needle in my hand to shut down Seal of Primordium. I drop SoFI and beat him down to 17. He drops the Presence and I beat him down to 11. He drops Argothian Enchantress and starts drawing, chaining into another Presence. I beat him down to 5 and drop Chalice at 3 along with Tormod's Crypt. He scoops, revealing a hand of Confinement, two more Presences and a Replenish.

Game: 2-1
Record: 1-0 (2-1)


Round 2, Ray.N with Aggro Loam

G1 He wins the roll and I mull to 5. He drops Badlands and even though he makes no plays, I drop Chalice at 1 (assuming he's playing something with Chain Lightning and Lightning Bolt; Badlands lead me off Aggro Loam). He Moxes into turn 2 Countryside Crusher and I Chalice at 2. The Crusher grows into 5/5 after 1 mill and a Wasteland and takes a quarter off my life and drops another Crusher. I drop a Sea Drake trying to stem the bleeding. His 8/8 Crusher beats me down to 3 and I play an Island, hoping to draw a Sower. That doesn't happen and as he doesn't botch it up and attacks with both Crushers, the writing is on the wall.

I bring in Blue Elemental Blasts and Tormod's Crypts for something that I forget (probably a mishmash of the Drifters, that are slow, and maybe the Needle, I can't remember - probably though the most expensive cards and what seems superfluous). Actually, I may have forgotten to bring Crypts in for round 2 - it happened at least once in this tournament.

G2 I keep my 7 and play Island-Go. He has a turn 1 Goyf that I Force. I Trinket for Chalice and pass. He doesn't have a threat and passes. I drop a Drake while beating he cycles lands. He drops a Goyf while I beat for 4 in the air. Goyf hits back and I take him down to 6 with both while dropping Chalice at 2 (due to Drake, I needed to replay lands so it's one turn later). He Grips the Chalice at the EOT and Goyf sits home to block. I swing him down to 2 and drop another Chalice. He drops a Countryside Crusher and I swing him to -2.

G3 I mull to 5 and he starts. He opens with a land-go that I match in kind. He drops a turn 2 Crusher, I have the Force. I Island>Mox imprinting Sower for mana and drop a Trinket Mage finding Crypt. My Mage begins beating while he doesn't have a solid creature threat and doesn't seem to want to commit anything else (he has a Volrath's Stronghold though). Mage commences beating while I drop lands and two turns into it, he tries to Stronghold his Crusher and I Crypt. I slam down an Efreet and he plays a Seismic Assault. He kills my Trinket Mage and I draw a Blue Elemental Blast to deal with the enchantment. He Dreams for 4 and I cycle my Shoreline Ranger into Island in response. I drop the Islands I had in hand, draw a Sea Drake and a Pestermite next turn to tap his Mox, sealing the deal.

Game: 2-1
Record: 2-0 (4-2)


Round 3, Valtrix with Rgb Aggro

G1 I have no idea what I'm playing vs. and keep a mediocre hand laying Islands. He doesn't do much either playing Confidant and Mogg Fanatic along with some discard. I drop some guys, get them burned eventually forcing him to Deed. I manage to Trinket for a Chalice and drop it at 1 (he has a Top in play though). Then I topdeck a Sword of Light and Shadow for a random dude that doesn't get burned since all his burn costs 1. I equip it and win handily by recurring the killed creatures while he can't race (he doesn't have ways to deal with Chalice at 1 - the Deed was a singleton apparently), stealing a Goyf with a Sower along the way.

I bring in Misdirections for Mull #4 and Needle.

G2 I keep a great hand...with Mox as the only blue source. I didn't think this one through (I was at Rome enjoying my birthday so I wasn't exactly on top of my game). I knew he packed Duresses AND Thoughtseizes. Yes, I get Duressed and never see a blue source again.

G3 I don't really know what I'm thinking. I keep a slow hand with 2 Misdirections as the main business when I should be mulling to Chalice at 1. His turn 1 discard is a Duress, not a Thoughtseize, so there's nothing I can do about it. I play the hand best I can, but the slowness bites me in the ass and as he knows I've got the Misdirection in hand, he doesn't play spells I can Misd and hits a second Duress for the job (along with Top). I lose my few guys to burn, topdeck nothing as is right and get run over in a match-up I basically should never lose. Serves me right for...not playing.

Game: 1-2
Record: 2-1 (5-4)


Round 4, Poichoi with Ichorid

We have some trouble scheduling the match as she's at Italian Nats and I've already returned to Finland, but the day before the deadline we manage.

G1 I drop a turn 1 Efreet after winning the roll and seeing her Gemstone Mine, I drop a Chalice at 0 (suspecting Storm-combo) coupled with SoFI. She Breakthroughs to discard her hand and I swing her down to 9. She has Cephalid Coliseum to mill herself but can't go off seeing only 2 Narcomoebas, and not having enough to win after a Therapy. I RFG her two Bridges with Mulldrifter, swing her to 4, destroy a Narcomoeba and pass. She revives an Ichorid, but can't dredge a 3rd Narcomoeba and without mana to flashback Deep Analysis, I take the game.

I bring in Crypts and Jittes for SoLS, Drifter and probably a Sower or something.

G2 we both keep at 7 and she Therapies. After thinking a while, I let it resolve and she calls Crypt only to see Trinket and Force in my hand. I open with turn 1 Needle on Imp to potentially slow her down. I get a Serendib Efreet in play turn 2 and pass. She tries the LED and I Force. I beat for 3 and drop a Sea Drake replaying City of Traitors to drop Jitte. I equip Jitte on Drake and sure enough, she has the Chain of Vapor taking only 3. She Needles Jitte and I Trinket for Crypt, keeping on the beats using a Mox in my hand to imprint the recently bounced Drake. She hardcasts an Imp at 7 and I SoFI up my Trinket Mage and swing in with both. She takes 3 and Imp takes down my Mage. I RFG her grave to prevent Dredging and she plays another Imp dropping to 2 from lands (City of Brass, Cephalid Coliseum and Gemstone Mine - destroyed by this - at this point). We play draw-go for a while with Efreet pinging me. After 5 turns I finally topdeck a relevant card in Pestermite, tap the Imp and swing for the win. I recall I ended the game with multiple Forces in hand.

Game: 2-0
Record: 3-1 (7-4)


Round 5, Der_Imaginäre_Freund with Ubw Wish-Still

His before-game comment:
"<Der_imaginäre_Freund> and against LS variant 0,887g faces FS variant 0,9973 -.-"

Yes, we've played this match a few times.

G1 I win the roll keeping my 7 (!!) and Chalice at 1. He land-gos while I crack my City for a turn 2 Drake. I get swinging and he drops another land while Forcing my SoLS the next turn. He Tolaria Wests for EE while Drake drops him to 7. In his next upkeep, I Pestermite to shut him off a colour. He drops EE at 0 and EoT blows up my Chalice (I curse how my Chalice stops me from Needling the EE before it blows up). He StPs both my creatures while I drop a Sower the next turn. He Decrees for 1 Angel and I use his tapped out state to drop a SoLS and swing for the win.

I sideboard 3 Chalices and a Sower for a Needle and Back to Basics.

G2 I have a turn 1 Drake and beat him into 16 while Evoking a Mulldrifter. He's busy cycling E. Dragon and doing stuff that doesn't concern me. Next turn I SoFI up the Drake and hit him into 6. He Cunning Wishes for Slaughter Pact but lacks the black source. He hits the black source and Pacts my Drake while trying Humility. I let Pact resolve since I have more gas in hand (due to the Drifter earlier along with the SoFI) and Force the Humility since my hand contains 3 Mulldrifters that I really want to realize. Next turn I drop a Mulldrifter and equip it. He indeed has the StP but I simply drop a third Mulldrifter. He drops a Decree for one while I trade my Drifter with it and drop my last one. I still can't find the land I need to drop Back to Basics FTW so I cycle a Shoreline Ranger. Turns out it doesn't matter as I have a handful of gas while he hasn't really drawn any cards (and I've got a Force to match his in hand). The Standstill in his hand never really was in a position to come down. The rest was just lands.

To end it, he showed me his deck and we discussed the merits of Cunning Wish a bit (and just general chatter, including Drifter Advantage). I also got to take the awesome screenshots of how fine the MWS shuffler really is.

Game: 2-0
Record: 4-1 (9-4)


Round 6, Giles with Aggro Loam

G1 I win the roll and turn 1 Drake (imprinting Force). He turn 1 DDs for 3 (we don't like handcards), which is fine by me with the excess lands in my hand. I drop Island>Island>Efreet while he drops Forgotten Cave. My Efreet teams up with Drake and the dynamic duo beats him down to 9. Next upkeep, I Pestermite his Mox and with 9 damage on the board, we're off to G2.

I again bring in the Blue Elemental Blasts and Crypts, this time taking out some Chalices I recall (I only want to see one, and not even that one so bad), and leave in a Needle.

G2 We both keep 7 and go land-go with him making the first play in turn 2 Tarmogoyf. At 0/1 it doesn't feel too threatening and thus it hits. I dropped an Efreet and a Crypt and pass. He drops another Goyf and passes. I beat and he Burning Wishes for Life and passes. I drop Sea Drake and SoFI up my Efreet, beating for 7 dropping him to 10. He swings back with Goyfs, sacrificing one for some damage to race. Then he draws Swords for my Serendib and my Drake drops him to 6. I make a potential mistake in dropping another Drake instead of just equipping (I feared another StP taking the tempo totally). He DDs for 3 and the Goyfs grow huge, but I stymie that with Crypt. It unfortunately doesn't kill the Goyfs as I have Land-Artifact-Creature in my graveyard. He swings for 3 and I Trinket Mage for Chrome Mox. Then I lose my Trinket to another Swords and Goyf keeps coming. However, I didn't look for Mox out of my stupidity - I just wanted to ensure that I'd get to cast my Sower/next Trinket despite DDs or whatever. I drop the second Trinket in my hand and fetch a Crypt, stymi'ing his offense by threatening to Crypt myself. The Trinket eats the Goyf and then eats him.

Game: 2-0
Record: 5-1 (11-4)


Round 7, Nihil with Swan Thresh

We count some tiebreakers and such and decide to ID unless everything falls the wrong way (about equivalent of "playing in a tourney with ID if other games fall the right way). We end up being able to ID.

Game: 0-0
Record: 5-1-1 (11-4)


Top 8, klaus with Uwb Wish-Still

Vengeance of Landstill!

G1 I lose the roll and he opens up with Tundra. I Chalice at 1 off two Islands and he EEs at 0. I Trinket for Chalice (a mistake in retrospect - I shoulda fetched my Needle instead as I had another Chalice in hand). He breaks my Chalice and StPs my Trinket, also wasting my Ancient Tomb. I drop a Sword of Light and Shadow and pass. He drops a Standstill and I break with Mulldrifter. My Drifter eats StP and he drops a Crucible, Wasting my Tomb. I Chalice at 2. He Wastes my City and I use my 3 Islands to drop a SoFI. Then I managed to drop a Pestermite at one EoT which ate a Force from him (I had a Force, but no blue). Then I Forced an EE recurred by Academy Ruins from him to buy me time without Standstills and Counterspells. I drop Needle, but he has the Force. In the end I succumb to immense landflood while his EE breaks my Chalices and equipment and I can't find creatures to save my life, dying to Factory beats some 10 turns later. There's one Sea Drake I find over that time, but with recurring EE, that isn't much.

Same side as before. I should've considered Umezawa's Jitte, and leaving more Chalices in without Back to Basics potentially as he has to play around it anyways.

G2 I have a turn 2 Efreet eating Swords, a turn 3 Drake while he E. Tutors for Crucible to shuffle after Brainstorm. Drake gets there and SoFI comes down. He drops a Humility, SoFI doesn't care and I swing in dropping him to 9 with another SoFI down. He tries EE, but I have saved Force for this and swing for the win.

G3 I keep a low threat hand with Back to Basicsx2 and obviously he has all his basics. Sigh. My SoLS and Chalice at 2 land, but EE deals with the former followed by Standstill. I break Standstill and equip SoLS to the Drake I broke it with. However, he's drawn his singleton Return to Dust and I never see equipment again, succumbing to Factory + double Decree bit later.

G4 I mull to 5, drop a turn 2 Sower into StP and end up breaking a of Standstill before I land Serendib Efreet, Pestermite and Sower. Obviously he has the Humility, I don't have the Force, I don't have the equipment and he stabilizes at 12. After this, he did to me what I did to DiF back in round 5. He resolves like 3 Standstills and I Force a Fact too. Then he just crusher me under all the cards I let him draw, countering some Back to Basics along the way. We play for 20 rounds or something, but it's really a foregone conclusion.

After that, we chat the match and all that a bit and I wish him good luck in the finals. Can't win 'em all, I guess.

Game: 1-3
Record: 5-2-1 (12-7)

[coma]

@eldariel : nice place for a nice and detailed account.
What are your feelings about your build? Pertain to mu , single card not optimal .If you feel lack of something : md or sb.
You meet 3 aggro 2 control 2 combo 1 aggro-control .A real and variegate metagame.
bye bye:laugh:

[Phantom]

Very nice report and congrats on the Finnish (ha!). My only question is, did you ever think about boarding in B2B against Aggro Loam? They've gotten pretty greedy with their manabase.

[Eldariel]

Coma: As I said, I was fairly happy with the build. Glen Elendra Archmage on the SB vs. control could've been good and Misdirections and Back to Basics performed slightly below my usual standards, but that's just because of the match-ups I played. The big question I'll be thinking is the B2B vs. Glen Elendra Archmage consideration.

I'm liking Pestermite for now, although I could see Cloud of Faeries instead in some matches - if Glen Elendra Archmage were added to the board, Cloud of Faeries gains a much larger utility in dropping those turn 2. As it stands, while I wasn't able to do it in this tournament, using Pestermite to break Standstills EOT (actually, that was pretty much my only hope vs. klaus in the G3; to break the first Standstill EOT into stuff, but my deck didn't provide another 'Mite for that) is huge as is using it to tap down Big Beater X for racing (best of all, tapping down an activated manland to tie 2-3 lands for a turn). I'd say Cloud is probably better in matches where you want Chalice at 2 early and often, and vs. decks with Edict-style removal, and matches where you need to dig for one specific card to win, but 'Mite has a lot of things going on for it otherwise.

The one card I was most missing was the 4th MD Sword of Light and Shadow and the 4th Sower of Temptation. I'll have to see what I do about those. 3rd Needle would've also been nice - heck, if possible, I'd want 4 Needles vs. Landstill.


Phantom: I did think about it, but the same reasoning that lead me to side out two Chalices caused me to keep them out: It's an aggro match-up. That is, both of the decks are fully capable of trying to play the control there, but fact is that ultimately, the deck with the better aggressive draw tends to win, and both decks' aggressive draws tend to beat the other's controlling draws. So I'd rather side in cards that put me in the aggro role and side out cards related to the control-role than the other way around - what I really want is just a fast beater and equipment on it.

As you saw from the report, the game I lost was to an early beater from him that wasn't matched by mine. The ones I won, I was able to drop bigger beaters faster and often use Force as the difference-maker by putting him far, far behind. Only in one match did I really play the control role (the last game vs. Giles) and my victory there was due to double Chalice of the Void and his lack of a second Crusher. So yea, I did consider Back to Basics, but I felt playing cards that allow me to gain tempo advantage and to try to assume the beatdown role (Hydroblast, Tormod's Crypt) serve me better. It doesn't mean I couldn't play control, but it means I'd rather not play control if the hand gives me the choice. Or well, perhaps saying "playing control" is a bit wrong, but I mean I should focus my answers on his big threats and mostly leave his engine alone as it isn't nearly as scary for me as just a turn 2 10/10 or something.

[coma]

Thank you very much for your complete answer , I suppose something .
I want to change in my sb , sower of temptation instead of control magic , because I understand it is my side vs control and aggro-control and in those mu there isn't red color to burn faeries . There is the classic removal and someone is under cotv 1 , while enchantment hate proliferate in game 2 and 3 .Sower turn out to be more incisive.
Bye:laugh:

edit: what do you think glen elndra archmage md or sb ?

[Eldariel]

SB if there's enough control in the meta. It really needs to come down turn 2-3 to truly win the game against control and it's rather mediocre against aggressive decks, so it's definitely not MD.

[coma]

The 8-30-08 I play in a local tournament with 40 players (5 round and top 8).
I finish top 8 with split with all others players.

Report doesn't matter, instead of my thoughts and your opinions about 2 sb cards that I test.

Sower of temptation and wipe away.

May be , I understand ( only now ) sower is better than control magic .
When we side in sower , we side vs a control or aggro-control mu and normally those decks haven't red component (to burn) to kill it. All removal of those mu are countered by cotv 1 or don't kill it.
Only exception is thresh ugr with its 3 f/i.
Moreover we have other 2/2 creature with fly for faster race ( possible to equppie it) and this critical spell is out by grip effects we figth it against in game 2/3.

Wipe away I want to test it yet again . It is a card against control deck for 2 mainly reason : humility and global removal like deed and e.e.
Humility for the finish combat when opponent is staedy on 7/8 lp.
Normally when opponent play removal lost one turn to kill our creatures in our next combat fase .
We can use it in our next first main fase to have other extra turn and to compel him to tapped out next turn .
I win 1 match against landeed for this card on deed .
And it is more versatile than trickbind.
Is it a possible fs sb card?

What do you think about tihs?
Thank you for all answers

bye:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Eldariel]

I'd like to hear a report. Heck, if it's truly a 40-player tournament, it would qualify for the Legacy Metagame Forum and Faerie Stompy would end up up there in the next update (two finishes in big tournaments already).

[coma]

Hi! I write a little report for a local tournament , 40 players , at start (saturday 8-30-08).
I play fs , but with some changes , because others plyers know very well my build , and I want to try some new-old cards.

My build :
22 mana ( 9 island , 4 mox , 4 city , 4 ancient , 1 sinodo )
18 creature ( 4 efreet , 4 drake , 4 cloud , 4 trinket , 2 weatherseed f.)
8 power (4 jitte , 2 sofi , 2 psionic )
9 control ( 4 fow , 4 cotv , 1 needle)
3 tfk
Sb: 2 weatherseed f. , 1 crypt , 1 e.e. , 1 wipe away (1x is senseless , almost 2x) , 1 island , 4 sower of t. , 2 mis-d , 3 btb

Round 1 random fish ugb (tempo)
G1 (he knows what I play and I don’t know what he plays) I lose the roll and I mull to 6 with 1 sinodo and 1 ancient ( no cotv) . He plays island go , I play land . Brainstorm in my eot to look for wasteland and waste me , I play other land , he ponders and wasta . I lose the match.
G2 I have a more control profile , 3 turn of nothing , he play in bad way because play by memory (knowing my build) . He plays a tarmo when was ¾ , in his eot I blasted it , then I play cotv 1 , btb and when he plays an other tarmo I play sower , with his great surprise , because he keeps a grip for my control magic so I win.
G3 I draw in a very bad way and in a critical moment when he plays a dark confidant , I play in my turn sower but with 2 counter I lose counter war , because he sides in 3x mis-d for my mis-d (He know my deck), so I lose .
1-2
-It’s normal in a local tournament that some boys makes bad and suboptimal choices only to win against me, it’s not the first time-

Round 2 gob mono r (with tech)
G1 I lose roll , I keep a good hand with creature on turn 1 (or trinket or cloud or pro-red) , ancient , island ,mox , ? ,.He start land lakey , I play ancient , mox(cloud) pro-red ( I note disappointment on his face) , then I draw a jitte and gg.
G2 I keep with 1 island 1 ancient (no force) 1 pro-red , trinket , jitte , island .I hope , but he starts land lackey , I play island , he attacks meand play piledriver , I play pro-red and then I play jitte that give me the victory. He plays also a creature that suspende with R and has suspend-10 (7/9) : tech? In second draw I also look for a fow.
2-0

Round 3
Sorry but I don’t remember nothing , if I will remember I will write an edit .
This is the first sign I’m on a certain of age.
Edit : now I remember . I have a (kucky) bye .

Round 4 landeed 4c
G1 I win roll (yeah!) and I start (with aggressive hand) ancient cotv 1 , he land go , I play efreet he forces , then I play an other creatureand and he conters it , then I play an other creature resolve on board. He try a fact or fiction in my eot , but he resolves bad cards, so I win with my race (keeping 1 counter in my haund).
G2 I side in sower/wipe away/btb/mis-d. It’s a long time match and my opponent play very slowly. After many creatures (mine) and many his removals , I resolve btb while he beats me with 3 mishra ., then I resolve cotv @2 and the board is on stax mode , because he has only 2 stap land 1 island and 1 swamp. Meanwhile I draw 2 sower and 1 wipe away. I’m 6 lp and he is 14 lp.
He plays tombstalker and I play on my first additional turn sower , he play deed (2nd turn) with a tropical , swamp , 1 (of 2 island) , I attack (he is now at 7 lp) and play wipe away, so gg .

Honestly , he said me of his mistake to discard a blue card to pitch the force , but it is unimportant because I have an other sower . If I wouldn’t have Wipe away , honestly , I will have won alike , because he doesn’t draw 4th land to active the deed .
2-0

Round 5 dreadstill ugr
G1 I win the roll . I have a good hand with fow 2 efreet mox cloud island ancient .Turn one efreet , he fow , I draw sofi and play an other efreet . He plays a turbo dreadnought to rerecover the race I fow , he plays brainstorm to look for a fow , then fetch and other brainstorm but , he makes a mistake and tap the wrong land and hasn’t land to play stifle effect . Then I play sofi and attack .
G2 He play island , I play ancient cotv@1 and then fast creature and sofi. Gg
2-0

Top 8 ( we split because we are friends and know very well the TO)

My considerations are in a previous post.

Thanks to all

Bye :laugh: :laugh: :tongue:

[Dr. DOOM]

I played a tournament today with roughtly 25 participants, and the metagame was unpredictable as usual in the Netherlands. In Belgium there's lots of Thresh, RGB Aggro Loam and GWB Aggro, but here, you never know. I expected more red turning up than previous months, so here's my decklist, Edariels' build but slightly different:

Main:

4 Sea Drake
4 Mulldrifter
4 Weatherseed Faeries
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Trinket Mage
3 Pestermite

4 Force of will

4 Chrome Mox
1 Pithing needle
4 Chalice of the void
4 Sword of Fire & Ice
3 Sword of light and Shadow

4 Ancient tomb
4 City of Traitors
9 Island

Sideboard:
3 Back to Basics
2 Misdirection
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
3 Sower of Temptation
3 Blue Elemental Blast

Match 1: Kevin with UBR Raffinity

Game 1 I win the die roll and keep a solid hand with FOW, Tomb, Island and Efreet. I play Island, go. Kevin plays 1st turn Arcbound worker. My second turn I drop the Efreet and in his turn I FoW a cranial plating. I start hitting with Efreet and he plays frogmite and Disciple of the vault. I get to equip with Sofi, destroy diciple first, then frogmite and then my opponent.

Out: some Mulldrifter, Chalice, and Weatherseed. In: BtB, Needle

Game 2 He gets out plating, Vial, Thopter and he hits me hard while removing my Efreet. I don't have the guts to cast BtB because I have only tomb and Island and he has Vial. I should have cast it in turn three becasue without it I don't stand a chance and can't race him. I lose hard.

Game 3 I know he doesn't play much removal now. I take my chance and play T1 Drake with Fow Backup. He looks surprised that the City of Traitors stays in play and I encourage him to ask the Judge, I'm getting used to this and it's kinda funny, lol! With now three Fow and Efreet in hand I go for agressive countering and I say "no" to Ravager. He plays Myr enforcer, I let him and race him with SoFaI equipped drake ftw.

1-0

Match 2 Iso with RB Goblins
Game 1 I never saw this build in action, but I know goblins is tough and I thought I was well prepared. He starts with Mogg Fanatic, I play first turn Weatherseed. He plays weirding... Shit... Chalice @2 sticks, but he still removes most of my creatures. At some point I play Pestermite and Weatherseed in the same turn, and succesfully try bringing back some creatures with SoLaS. But he's too fast and hits me with just enough to end the game.

Post board I removed some Drifters and slow stuff for BeB and needle + explosives.

Game 2 I get a lousy hand and mull to 6. I have a Chrome mox and one island and I decide to keep. What the hell was I thinking? Should have mulled to 5 of course. He plays first turn lackey followed by SG Commander and I'm dead and manascrewed all the way.

1-1

Match 3 - NarcoBridge Ichorid

He mulls to 3 and that's reason for me to play T1 Drake. T2 I equip SoFi. He got to say "draw, go" four times before I kill him.

Not knowing what he plays, he has some advantage post board. He plays T1 cabal therapy on his own hand and I respond on my turn with 2 mana land and chalice @1. Ichorid wins games by Therapy if left unchecked. He dredges a bridge, I play Tmage and kill my own mage with sofi equipped efreet to remove the Bridge from Below. He completely ignores what I'm doing and goes off four turns later when he's at 10 life and I'm at 7.

I board in crypts and explosives for some weatherseed and chalices

I play a lightning fast fist turn: Mox imprinting FoW, City, Pestermite untapping city, Chalice @1, go. There's a guy standing next to me watching whose eyeballs pop out and his jaw drops to the floor. Second Turn I play Efreet and start beating. Instead of drawing one of the 11 cards to stop Ichorid I draw 5 lands in a row and loose.

1- 2

Match 4 - Michel - 5 color green rogue build

He mulligans to 6 and goes draw-go 4 times while I kill him with Drake and SoLaS. Nothing to see here, move along...

I saw him playing green while scouting. Because he discarded Crosis's Charm, a three color non-green card, I know he must be playing at least 4 colors. This screams for BtB from the sideboard although no cards hit the board at his side.

Second game, he starts with Birds of Paradise and Quirion ranger. Not very threatening, kinda cute:smile: He counters a Weatherseed Faerie, and after that he destroys everything I cast (about 5 threats in a row) and beats me with Troll Ascetic. After a lot of long and boring turns of him removing stuff and me Chump-blocking, I get 2 chalices @1 and 2, allowing a sea drake to stick to the board. I equip with double SoLaS for the win and bring back everything he removed and start mulldrifter recursion. He tries to stop me by playing Crosis's Charm, but the Drake has Pro-Black (twice, lol) so he can't play it.

2 - 2

Match 5: CRET Belcher, new build with manamorphose 4x main.

He Belchers me to death in turn2, while I decided to keep a good beatdown hand with lots of threats and no counter backup.

In: 3 BeB, Needle, explosives. Out: Some weatherseed faeries.

His deck seems quite consistent and he combos in turn 2 with Warrens for 16. I play T-Mage into explosives for 0. He attacks and brings me to 5 life, then casts two LED. My next upkeep I pop the explosives, then draw chalice :cry: and attack. I play chalice anyway at 0 because I have land and another Tmage in hand. In his next turn, he plays burning wish, in response pops two LED's for blue mana. He wishes for diminishing returns and plays it. That gets me another Chalice and Tmage. He finds no combo pieces while I cast Chalice @1, and Tmage for a third chalice. I realize too late I can't needle his belcher now if he would find one, oops! He still doesn't find combo pieces and I drop Chalice @2. It looks really neat on the board, with three chalices and 2 mages. I find a SoFaI and the mages slap my opponent completely silly.

Game 3, I have FoW and two BeB in hand. He goes off in turn one. I FoW his manamorphose, how stupid!!! Now he stilll has mana AND I raised his storm count. 12 Goblins beat me to death.

Match 6
Edwin - BWG Aggro disruption

I lose the die roll and the matchup is one I can't seem to win ... He beats me with double Nantuko Shade. He plays a lot of removal too.

I board in Misdirection and needle for the shades. It didn't help

Game 2 I lose to hippies and shade, same as usual, he removes my threats

[Eldariel]

His deck seems quite consistent and he combos in turn 2 with Warrens for 16. I play T-Mage into explosives for 0. He attacks and brings me to 5 life, then casts two LED. My next upkeep I pop the explosives, then draw chalice :cry: and attack. I play chalice anyway at 0 because I have land and another Tmage in hand. In his next turn, he plays burning wish, in response pops two LED's for blue mana.

The EE should've destroyed the LEDs...

[SuckerPunch]

Why are you guys talking about Wipe Away?

Rushing River is loads better.

1.) It fits the curve better.

2.) It lets you sac an extra City of Traitors or a useless Ancient Tomb (bc you're too low on life) to bounce back two of your opponents creatures and set them back by two turns.

3.) It fills the role that Psionic Blast used to play, and that Snakeform plays these days, giving the deck an answer to opponents creatures like Phyrexian Dreadnought, Tombstalker and Goyf.

I really think Rushing River belongs here these days as a 2 of. Dreadnought and Tombstalker are getting to be very popular and Rushing River deals with them both, often permanently.

Also, am I the only one who thinks that 10 Islands, or 9 Islands + 1 Seat of Synod is the very bare minimum and even that's skimping.

How do you expect to support UU casting cost cards (Sower etc) with just 13 blue sources and no cantrips to find more? Threshold sometimes has trouble getting UU even while running 15 blue sources along with 11-13 cantrips. So how are your lists managing to do fine with just 13 and no cantrips?

Am I the only person here who is frequently having mana problems even finding one blue source much less too while running 14 blue sources, much less 13?

[Dr. DOOM]

The EE should've destroyed the LEDs...

Good point, I think either some illegal plays were made in that game or it went otherwise. I don't really remember. Oh well, I won that game anyway but I'll pay more attention next time to what my opponents are doing :smile: But I had quite some advantage from the Diminishing Returns

[coma]

@suckerpunch: I'm agree with you rushing river is best bouncer for fs .
Wipe away it's only an idea for a control metagame.

About manabase : 22 is the best for this deck , it's result of much tests of players like eldariel , yamaelle and others . I think , normally , It's no problem to find UU .

bye:smile:

[SuckerPunch]

Well that was my point. 22 mana sources is really the bare minimum (and even then makes it hard to play UU cards like Sower). Yet, most people these days seem to be skimpting and playing with just 21 mana! Even Eldariel is only playing 21 lands.

Not just in terms of bounce, but all around, Rushing River has been fantastic.

I absolutely think it belongs in the maindeck these days where Psionic Blast used to be.

Dreadnought and Tombstalker are getting to be very popular and bouncing them will get rid of them for atleast 3 turns, maybe more. Bouncing back your own threats in response to removal is also fairly solid. Even just bouncing back two combo pieces (painter's servant + grindstone) or two random blockers (saccing a used up Ancient Tomb/City), will gain you lots of tempo.

I notice that everyone is playing Pestermite over Cloud of Fairies these days. Is that the consensus, that Pestermite is better than Cloud, or is it up in the air. I don't know, I just don't think that Pestermite does much.

[Zinch]

I don't play the deck, but I see the benefits of pestermite:

1. It's a threat on its own without equipment unlike cloud of faeries
2. It's more versatile 'cause you can untap a land to produce more mana (like CoF) but also can tap a blocker or a land to negate a color to an opponent

[Kuma]

The nice thing about Cloud of Faeries is they let you drop Chalice at two easily. The bad parts are repeatedly tapping Ancient Tomb and that it isn't a threat on its own. I've rarely found speeding out equipment with Cloud to be worth the pain. Pestermite is so much more versatile.

To those running B2B, why is it better than Winter Orb? I've hated B2B every time I've played it, as it usually hurts me as much as my opponent. Unless the meta consists of 42 land, ITF, and Landstill, I don't see why Winter Orb wouldn't be better. Winter Orb doesn't slow you down at all, while slowing down almost every opposing deck. Granted, it doesn't pitch to FoW and Chrome Mox, but it also costs one mana less.

[coma]

@suckerpunch: eldariel plays 21 mana and 1 shoreline .

@zinch: It is a question of choice .
Pestermite is more versatile .
Cof give us acceleration to play very fast .

@kuma: winter orb slow always our opponent .
If you cast btb in a right time is gg , and you side it only if you need .

bye:smile:

[Dr. DOOM]

You're absolutely right about BtB. I played against GBW aggro, he taps his only lands, three non-basics, for Pernicious Deed, and in my main phase I cast BtB. He's sitting there with three tapped land and a useless deed for three turns in a row :laugh: That's game, dude! I had a Drake in play...

[SuckerPunch]

Anyone have any thoughts on Rushing River. I find it to be awesome and an automatic two of in most builds. Do you guys share that sentiment or no?

Playing 17 Land and 1 Shoreline Ranger is NOT the same as playing 18 Land.

Shoreline Ranger only works as you intend it to half the time.

Assuming the land you have in hand is an Ancient Tomb, yes Shoreline Ranger works. But that land is instead a City of Traitors (it will be 50% of the time), you'll be wishing that you were playing an island there instead.

Even if that land is an Ancient Tomb, you're still better off with an Island instead of a Shoreline Ranger.

With an Island, you can open with a Ancient Tomb Chalice at 1, or a Jitte, and follow it up with Island Serendib Efreet/Sea Drake/Pestermite turn two. With a Shoreline Ranger, you are forced to forego one of those turns to get you that Island you needed.

[Eldariel]

It's a calculated risk I've taken. Island doesn't imprint on Moxes or pitch to Forces (let alone get hardcast). I've found that to be more relevant than the problems Shoreline can cause.

[Kuma]

@kuma: winter orb slow always our opponent .
If you cast btb in a right time is gg , and you side it only if you need.

This is what I'm getting at. Why run a card that's good some of the time when you can run a card that is good all the time? Especially when that card costs one mana less.

I'll grant you that sometimes Back to Basics can win the game on the spot, but I've never had one of those situations in my (somewhat limited) experience playing the deck. Another more experienced FS player in my meta prefers Winter Orb to B2B. At first, I didn't agree with him, but I saw how it outshone B2B in every matchup, and now I have to wonder.

Maybe there's too many basics in my meta. B2B seems like it's only good against decks with three or more colors, and most of those decks still run some basic land.

[coma]

@ kuma : I'm agree with you , your It's a right answer .
We have to side in btb vs 3/4/5 colors decks , otherwise we have not to have a control profile . Against a mono color deck ( or 1 color with 1 splash) , we have to play with an aggro mode on .
Only control with 1 (or with splash) color is MUC . Statistically is not a rilevant mu .

bye:smile:

[Eldariel]

I ran Winter Orb all the way to Finnish Legacy Championships. I went 4-2. Guess what I lost to? BGW Rock and 4c Loam Tog. Against Rock, I couldn't even effectively bring Winter Orb in as I risk it being a dead card (and uncastable due to the tempo of the game) if they have multiple StPs in hand, or Deed or similar.

Against Loam Tog, I sided it in, drew it, played it and lost. Why? Because it didn't prevent him from sweeping the board. It slowed him down, sure, but he plays lots of free and cheap removal, and he has the Deeds to sweep the Orb away too. Back to Basics simply shuts them down. Had I had Back to Basics in either of those match-ups, I would've won. They would've simply been unable to play spells and I would've taken it home. Sure, sometimes I have to use Trinket Mage > Chrome Mox or similar to set it up, but generally just following up a Deed is enough to win.


Here's what I feel it comes down to: Winter Orb is a tempo tool. Due to the existence of tons of cheap removal and Deed and the relatively high landcount most control-decks run, it may simply fall short as they answer your threats in due time while you spent mana casting WOrb. Back when Rifter was popular, Winter Orb was incredible. Rifter (and most white control) is structured around 4-6 mana "bomb" answers that simply deal with the whole board at once (Vengeance, Humility, Wrath, Exalted Angel, etc.). Against such cards, countering it/rebuilding immediately after and playing a Winter Orb just means they're basically down to StPs. However, specifically deed and more generally, more spot removal-heavy control decks are quite able to wiggle out from under a Winter Orb. Back to Basics wins.

Basically, I don't like giving people a chance. That's why I run Back to Basics. It singlehandedly wins 3+c control (and Rock) matches when resolved. It also shuts down their land engines (Academy Ruins, Volrath's Stronghold, Mishra's Factory, etc.). It doesn't just slow them down, it actually puts them SHUT. That's very relevant especially in midgame sitiuation where they have the lands to pay with and just want to untap the utility land to get new uses out of it. Back to Basics simply says "No." And between Sea Drake, Trinket Mage, Pestermite/Cloud of Faeries and Moxes and Islands, I've very rarely had trouble making a sufficient number of plays under B2B, no more than I'd have with Winter Orb. So yea, Winter Orb hits a broader number of decks, but B2B hits them harder, and it hits the ones that are most difficult. That's why I prefer B2B.

[coma]

Like said eldariel on b2b , I can say that b2b , mis-d , sower of temptation are the 3 cards that capsize control mu .
I win very much games with those 3 cards .
They are the base to step up fs's level with sideboard .
:smile:

[Phantom]

Well, they finally printed a piece of equipment worth fetching with Trinket Mage. I think it's worth a gander (and a 1-of test slot):

Sigil of Distinction
X
Artifact - Equipment Rare
Sigil of Distinction comes into play with X charge counters on it.
Equipped creature gets +1/+1 for each charge counter on Sigil of Distinction.
Equip: Remove a charge counter from Sigil of Distinction.

[Eldariel]

That'll definitely be a 1-of. More, we'll have to see. I could certainly see playing it for 5-7 and equipping for 4-6. Seems solid.

[Holiday Djinn]

What do you guys think about Master of Etheriums in this deck?

For the record:

Master of Etherium U2
Artifact Creature - Vedalken Wizard
Master of Etherium's power and toughness are each equal to the number of artifacts you control.
Other artifact creatures you control get +1/+1.
*/*

With all the artifacts we run, isn't this guy a shoe-in over Pestermite/Cloud of Faeries? We could even up the artifact lands from 1 to 2-3.

I know people have been shouting Affinity when talking about this guy, but to me he seems hand made for Faerie stompy.

I know he doesn't have evasion, but there have been many times when i cannot ride a CoF or Pestermite (even equipped) to victory. You have to imagine this guy is going to come out a 2/2-4/4 turn 2 or 3.

What say you?

[Brehn]

I'd say that a) it's outclassed by opposing Goyfs and b) increases the vulnerability to sweepers like Pernicious Deed. Can't see it here.

[JeroenC]

I know he doesn't have evasion

And that's why I'm not going to play him. That, and Goyf just being better.

[Eldariel]

Definitely not. The deck may be able to generate 3-4 artifacts, but not consistently. Since it doesn't fly, it's mostly just a poor Pestermite - at least Pestermite taps the Goyf for a turn while racing. The lack of flight makes racing opponent making the drops very difficult as there's like to be a blocker every turn. Unreliability, lack of evasion and the lack of utility for the other ability force me to say "no".

[DrewliusMaximus]

Will Relic of Progenitus (1-cc artifact that removes all graveyards from game) make SoLS significantly less usable and bring Jitte back to favor? I haven't played FS in a while, but I figure it has to use this new anti-Goyf bomb even if it is 1-cc. I can see SoLS still being played even with the Relic, but what do y'all think?

[Eldariel]

I'd rather just play Crypts. Chalice at 1 is too important against Thresh-like decks, although I'll still have to test it. Hitting both graves IS huge as Tarmogoyf and Terravore both draw off both graveyards.

[Humphrey]

Skill Borrower
2u
Artifact Creature - Human Wizard Rare
Play with the top card of your library revealed.
As long as the top card of your library is an artifact or creature card, Skill Borrower has all abilities of that card.

Can anyone see this guy in FS? I think it is a bit random, but it can be a Sword or a Drake.

[Joon]

Or a land. Or a Mox. Dno, FS biggest problem is imo the lack of consistency, and this guy won't fix that. So he sucks, at least in this deck.

[Happy Gilmore]

Just got back from testing the new equipment spell, I was very surprised, it was better than expected.


The list I'm testing:

9 Island
1 Seat of Synod
4 City
4 Tomb
4 Mox

4 FoW

4 Trinket Mage
4 Mulldrifter
4 Sea Drake
4 Efreet
3 Sower of Temptation
2 Pestermite

3x Sword of Light and Shadow
3x Sigil of Distinction
1x Tormod's crypt
1x EE
1x Pithing Needle
4x Chalice

What I am not sure about is the numbers and the types of equipment. In the games I tested I drew the sigil off the top, and was able to do something realy good with it imediately, and this begs the question weither or not Jitte should come back in place of SoLS. Honestly I have no idea, but Sigil will be a solid addition.

[JeroenC]

Skill Borrower
2u
Artifact Creature - Human Wizard Rare
Play with the top card of your library revealed.
As long as the top card of your library is an artifact or creature card, Skill Borrower has all abilities of that card.

Can anyone see this guy in FS? I think it is a bit random, but it can be a Sword or a Drake.

If it's a Drake, it just gets flying. If it's a Sword... It does nothing. Only card in our deck that this might work for is Trinket Mage, Pestermite and/or Cloud of Faeries and I'm not even sure if the rules would do that. Maybe Control Magic Faerie(forgot the name).

[Captain Hammer]

Yep, Skill Borrower sucks balls.

We still need to find a solid 2U cc beatstick to improve the decks consistency, but Skill Borrower ain't it.

Maybe Rishadan Airship is precisely what the deck is looking for.

No one plays Darkblast now that lackey is out of the picture, so Rishadan Airship is basically Serendib Efreet 5-8, only without any lifeloss.

Moving on...

Sigil of Distinction is extremely solid as a Mage target. But I would play two copies maximum. Anymore would be overkill.

So what equipment should it replace?

Good of Jitte

or

Good old Swords

Anyone have a definitive answer?

[Eldariel]

We already have a hugely better Rishadan Airship in Pestermite. It chumps, it costs U, it EoT breaks Standstills, it races Goyfs, it denies mana, it has the right cost, it's overall just awesome. Also, the reason 1 toughness on prime beater (Pestermite kinda sidesteps the issue with the auxillary functions) is not only Darkblast, but also Mogg Fanatics, Gempalm Incinerators, the burn of any red deck and the random occurence Funeral Charms/Darkblasts. So the 1 toughness is not only annoying against black, but against red too. Pestermite has the same issue, but the awesome side effect of doing a ton of stuff even when killed.

As for Sigil, I'm initially thinking one copy in one of the SoFI slots. I'll have to see if I like it enough to fit two copies. For the record, the present build I'm running already eschews Jitte for SoLS to be used in conjuction with Sowers, Mulldrifters and the like. Jitte resides on the sideboard (although I always keep it handy) where it comes in from to wreck burn, horde-decks and zoo/sligh/XDW-builds alike. I do think the option of switching to Jitte/Sigil has some merit, but the protections the swords offer kinda tip the scales to the other direction - often, those protections just win games and basically mean opponents can't allow me to equip one of the Swords at all or they pretty much lose.

[Captain Hammer]

I like Relic of Progenitus as a 1 of in this deck. It's a lot more versatile than Tormod's Crypt. At worst, it cycles so it's never dead, unlike Tormod's Crypt. At best, it shrinks a goyf down to 0/1 so your Mage can attack into or threaten to block a Goyf with impunity (which Crypt can't do).

Relic and SoLS are slightly antisnyergic on occasion but I think the changes are worth cutting that card.

Something like...

10 Island
4 City
4 Tomb
4 Mox
1 Seat of Synod

4 Force of Will

4 Trinket Mage
4 Mulldrifter
4 Sea Drake
4 Serendib Efreet
3 Sower of Temptation
2 Pestermite

4x Chalice of the Void
2x Sword of Fire and Ice
2x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sigil of Distinction
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Pithing Needle
1x Relic of Progenitus

I'm not sure if Engineered Explosives is needed. You can grab Sigil to deal with a Mongoose better than EE could. But EE is great versus tokens and Dreadnought though, so maybe not.

[Captain Hammer]

Edit: Sorry I wasn't clearer. This is the card I am referring to...

Quietus Spike 3
Artifact - Equipment
Equipped creature has deathtouch.
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, that player loses half his or her life, rounded up.
Equip 3

Basically, early on, this can do as much as 8 additional points of damage to an opponent.

Given our manabase, we can get it on something fairly early.

Even Deathtouch can be pretty solid on something like Trinket Mage or Pestermite.

Could this replace Swords?

Less consistent, but a hell of a lot more bomby.

[Zinch]

Last time I checked sigil, it doesn't granted deathtouch... but still is a solid card I think

For reference (in the colorless section): http://mtgsalvation.com/shards-of-alara-spoiler.html

Edit: sorry I thought you were talking about the X cc equipment (wich I believe is better in this deck anyway)

[Spardantevil]

Hey guys, I'm back from the French Legacy Championship where I played Faerie Stompy (obviously). Just to tell you that I went 5/2/1 ,missing the top 8 for almost nothing.

6th round I was at 5/0/1, just needed 1 more win to TOP 8... Then I lost against Taiga.dec (hurts a lot...) and U Stax who beat me when I only needed a 2nd blue mana source or a Sword of Fire and Ice (8 islands/4chrome mox/4 trinket mage/4 SoFI left in the deck, that's 20 cards at all...) to just win the game...

Kind of disgusted right now, but well, I'll do better next time (I hope so :laugh:)

I'll edit my post to give you my list (which is pretty common), and give you a report if anyone shows some interest for it.