'Power' in Legacy?

[TylerEss]

Hello, all! I've just become interested in Legacy and have been starting to read lots of stuff online to get up-to-speed. I had considered myself a Vintage player for a long time before that, but didn't actually play much and just kinda read about the metagame.

In reading all the T8 decklists, it seems like there are almost no decks using mana acceleration at all. I'm used to Type 1 decks starting 8xSoLoMoxenCrypt, so I'm a bit taken aback!

Mox Diamond isn't on the banned list that I read on the DCI site, so why isn't it an automatic 4-of in Gobbos? I'm not saying I understand Goblins and that I know it should be used; just that it was an automatic 4-of in Stronghold Block Constructed, so why not here? Lotus Petal, Chrome Mox, City of Traitors, et al just don't seem to be in use in T8 Legacy decks.

Is there any reason for this, or do the decks that just happen to be the best just happen to not have need/room for power?

[Michael Keller]

If there was a P9 in Legacy...it might look something like:

Force of Will
Duress
Brainstorm
Lion's Eye Diamond
Swords to Plowshares
Wasteland
Goblin Lackey
Survival of the Fittest
Meddling Mage

...in no particular order...

There's alot of acceleration you can use.
L.E.D.
Lotus Petal
Chrome Mox
Dark Ritual
Cabal Ritual
Mox Diamond
Rite of Flame

to name a few...

[troopatroop]

Diamond is Card Disadvantage, Easily removable, and Playing more threats is generally accepted as a much stronger plan. This format is very different from what you know, apparently.

[Machinus]

http://machinus.googlepages.com/bloodstained_mire.jpg

fixed, I hope

[Bryant Cook]

Am I the only person who can't see the image?

[freakish777]

Am I the only person who can't see the image?

It's Bloodstained Mire

[Pinder]

http://machinus.googlepages.com/bloodstained_mire.jpg

fixed, I hope

QFT.

1) Duals
2) Fetches

There was a discussion on this ealier, but I'm too lazy to find the link.

[Caboose]

From a money perspective, the power cards in Legacy are Grim Tutor, Rolling Earthquake, Sea Drake, Reset, and maybe Force of Will.

To the original poster, if you like decks that start out with a busted amount of mana, try Faerie Stompy. It's the closest Legacy has to a Workshop deck.

[Bardo]

Mox Diamond isn't on the banned list that I read on the DCI site, so why isn't it an automatic 4-of in Gobbos? I'm not saying I understand Goblins and that I know it should be used; just that it was an automatic 4-of in Stronghold Block Constructed, so why not here? Lotus Petal, Chrome Mox, City of Traitors, et al just don't seem to be in use in T8 Legacy decks.

Is there any reason for this, or do the decks that just happen to be the best just happen to not have need/room for power?

First off, insomnia sucks.

Secondly, here's (http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4978) the discussion Pinder was too lazy to dig up. Though that discussion is kinda crap. No offense. To reiterate, power-wise nothing really compares on equal footing with Ancestral and Lotus in Legacy. Also P9 is an anachronism since Tinker and Yawgmoth's Will are just as good, if not better than much of the established Vintage "power."

Third, have you seen IGGy Pop and TES? Legacy Belcher/Warrens? It's all acceleration. Also, Faerie and Angel Stompy run Tomb/Chrome for nutty opening plays; like turn 1 Chrome, Tomb, morph; turn 2 flip Exalted Angel.

Fourth, Duals and Fetchlands aren't "power," but they are the foundation of Legacy.

[TorpidNinja]

Fourth, Duals and Fetchlands aren't "power," but they are the foundation of Legacy.

How is this not differentiation without difference? Commonly, when I have the discussion with T1 players (re: I'm not strictly a T1 player,) playing (though not necessarily owning) power is the membership card for participation. As such, while fetches and duals are foundational - knowledge of the format aside - with respect to Legacy, Power and its ilk are foundational with respect to T1. It seems a matter of semantics.
However, if you're saying it's a matter of degree, of course that's true; Legacy is far more balanced than people tend to believe and doesn't really facilitate the idea of a strict "Power X."

[Nightmare]

When your power card is a 1/1 creature for R, it's not really worth discussing the matter.

[Bardo]

As such, while fetches and duals are foundational - knowledge of the format aside - with respect to Legacy, Power and its ilk are foundational with respect to T1.

Yeah, this is why I eventually bowed out of the previous "Legacy Power" discussion; no one could agree on terms, and it ultimately seemed like a pointless academic exercise.

[xsockmonkeyx]

True, but isnt the guy's question more along the lines of what cards he should be looking into rather than labels, rankings, etc?

If you are interested in Legacy but dont know where to start, the Introducing Legacy articles by Machinus, Hi-Val, Bardo, and Anusien over on SCG are quite good. If you havent read them yet you should probably look into them.

[TheAardvark]

From a money perspective, the power cards in Legacy are Grim Tutor, Rolling Earthquake, Sea Drake, Reset, and maybe Force of Will.


Don't forget The Tabernacle At Pendrell Vale, which is now the second most expensive card in Legends, and may very will eclipse Mana Drain before too long.

[hi-val]

Isn't this as silly as "the Seven Wonders Of The Modern World"? The "power nine" term is completely arbitrary, and the only reason those cards are there is because they weren't reprinted. You can bet that Sol Ring, Balance and Wheel would all be "Power Twelve" if they weren't reprinted.

Wonders of the ancient world, like cards from Beta, are wonderful because of the time and historical context. Wonders in the modern sense, or in a different frame of reference, like a different format, drift in ambiguity and needlessness.

[TylerEss]

I didn't really mean to focus on "what the Legacy P9 are" or any kind of semantics like that.

I just was wondering why nobody seemed to be using the acceleration that is available in the format. Turns out it was becuase I wasn't looking in the right places.

Thanks for showing me that there's more than gobbos and Thresh in T1.5!

[Maldur Sven Vedukor]

If there was a P9 in Legacy...it might look something like:

Force of Will
Duress
Brainstorm
Lion's Eye Diamond
Swords to Plowshares
Wasteland
Goblin Lackey
Survival of the Fittest
Meddling Mage

...in no particular order...

There's alot of acceleration you can use.
L.E.D.
Lotus Petal
Chrome Mox
Dark Ritual
Cabal Ritual
Mox Diamond
Rite of Flame

to name a few...

These could be the legacy's P9:

Force of Will
Duress
Brainstorm
Lion's Eye Diamond
Swords to Plowshares
Wasteland
Goblin Lackey
Survival of the Fittest
Aether Vial

Vial and Wasteland > ALL.
Please don't forget Vial. It's a format defining card.