PDA

View Full Version : Rules change on Visual upkeep reminders



Nightmare
04-18-2007, 09:02 AM
From the Official MTG Rules List (for Judges & Rules Advisors)...

In case you didn't see this before - the Future Sight mini-site has been
updated with Rules Primers:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=magic/expansion/futuresight

As noted in the Rules Primer, some cards introduced in Future Sight
involve a delayed trigger ability (DTA) worded like this:
"At the beginning of your next upkeep, pay {mana cost}. If you don't,
you lose the game."

A player who forgets to properly resolve that DTA will, according to our
current Penalty Guideline procedures, lose the game:
"If the trigger has an instruction that specifies a default action
associated with a choice (usually "If you don't ... ") resolve the
default action immediately without regard to the timing rules for that
particular game." (Game Play Error - Missed Trigger)

The June 1st rules update will change UTR 37 (No game markers of any
kind may be placed on top of or in a location that obscures a player's
deck.); beginning with the prerelease, we will allow players to use a
visual reminder - on top of their library - and we recommend an
announcement, before deck construction, similar to this:
"If you resolve one of the Pacts and you could lose the game on your
next upkeep, please place a non-game item on top of your library as a
visual reminder. Please don't use a card or anything that might obscure
the library - use something small like a coin or a bead, just so you'll
remember to handle the delayed trigger ability."

And, if a player still manages to forget this DTA, despite your efforts
at education, then they will indeed lose the game - and probably gain a
valuable lesson.

While this doesn't really effect Legacy outside Jotun Grunt or something, I can stop myself from drawing with Necro on the table again in Type 1. This is an excellent concession from Wizards, and makes great intuitive sense.

Slay
04-18-2007, 12:13 PM
It's about time they stopped with the "good players remember every marginal detail of the game that's what makes them pro-tour quality" nonsense.

Good for them.

I wonder if a token that says "HEY ASSHOLE PAY THE UPKEEP COST" would be allowable.

DeathwingZERO
04-18-2007, 01:36 PM
It's not just a matter of remembering, it's also as simple as marking it down on a piece of paper (which most serious tournaments attempt to enforce you to have for things just like this).

All in all, I'm glad they finally "allowed" this type of thing, but people should really be more responsible with their actions.

Example: I've actually had a judge called on me while playing a storm deck because I didn't write down the storm count, but when I went through the cards played, the mana sources used, and the EXACT spell count at the end, the judge just told my opponent "One more stall like this and your out of the tournament", because he vehemently denied that he "remembered" any spells resolving, to which I AND the judge both said "You have to ALLOW the spell to resolve, if you forget, that's your fault, not his. Good game, you lose." The player then went on to tell me (after the judge had left) that I would have been cited in a "real" tournament for not writing anything down, in which I replied, again, "It's your responsibility to remember, I just showed you every single card and every single source of mana to get there, I'm sorry your a bitter loser."

TorpidNinja
04-18-2007, 02:16 PM
"It's your responsibility to remember, I just showed you every single card and every single source of mana to get there, I'm sorry your a bitter loser."

I hate the "real tournament" excuse. Did you also snap your fingers in a circle while saying that? You should've.

This seems, if nothing else, like something that should be done even if there are no triggers of which to remind oneself. Even though, during play, I find myself verbally announcing "untap, upkeep, draw" the visual cues could be far more productive. Many of these things end up being instinct and, at times, that's a detriment to the game plan (anyone ever forget about a Squee trigger?).

Brushwagg
04-18-2007, 09:52 PM
I wonder if a token that says "HEY ASSHOLE PAY THE UPKEEP COST" would be allowable.

LOL. There's your million dollar idea now. Patent that before someone else beats you to it.


(anyone ever forget about a Squee trigger?).

ummm ya.. But only if I don't tell myself Untap, Upkeep.

Lego
04-19-2007, 01:15 AM
Does this mean that we can use visual reminders on top of our decks whenever we feel like it now, or just for upkeep abilities, or specifically only for the Pacts?

cdr
04-19-2007, 07:42 AM
You can put a counter on your deck for just about anything you want.

Nihil Credo
04-19-2007, 08:15 AM
Ten euros say D&D players will be putting their "lucky dice" on top of their libraries every time they need to topdeck a Wrath or lose.

Nightmare
04-19-2007, 08:20 AM
You're funny. Everyone knows there's no such thing as a Euro! HAHAHAHA!!!

Happy Gilmore
04-19-2007, 04:48 PM
I have a pog slammer with Taz, the Tazmanian devil on it that will work just fine as a reminder.

calosso
04-19-2007, 05:29 PM
What a stupid rule, it takes away some of the skill of the game that forces you to remember multiple things.


I guess that is why Dominic likes the rule.

Nightmare
04-19-2007, 08:06 PM
What a stupid rule, it takes away some of the skill of the game that forces you to remember multiple things.


I guess that is why Dominic likes the rule.You play Goblins, you have no upkeep triggers. Silence yourself until you learn how to play this game like a big boy.

Shriekmaw
04-19-2007, 08:10 PM
You can put a counter on your deck for just about anything you want.



I'm sure that all of us have instances where we forget a "trigger ability" during our upkeep. In my view, its the players responsibility to remember these things. I just think that when your allowed to put a counter on your deck for no apparent reason, it takes away from the game.

I think if a player does use a counter on their deck, then it should read "Here is your sign".

calosso
04-19-2007, 08:37 PM
You play Goblins, you have no upkeep triggers. Silence yourself until you learn how to play this game like a big boy.

aether vial ?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?

TorpidNinja
04-19-2007, 08:50 PM
I'm sure that all of us have instances where we forget a "trigger ability" during our upkeep. In my view, its the players responsibility to remember these things. I just think that when your allowed to put a counter on your deck for no apparent reason, it takes away from the game.

I think if a player does use a counter on their deck, then it should read "Here is your sign".
Takes away from the game? Like recording life totals, taking notes during play, and recording cards in opposing hands? Yes, surely these tools have harmed the nature of the game.

Sarcasm aside, cheating, bad attitudes and other personality quirks take away from the game. This tool adds to the game by making it more about the cards and the skill in which they're used and less about bullshit jedi mind tricks.