Legacy @ Play the Game on Sundays

[alteredstates]

We're holding Legacy tournaments at 1pm on Sundays at our store in Carousel Mall in Syracuse. EVERY entry receives a FREE booster pack and top finishers receive store credit based on turnout. Entry fee is $5 and these events are sanctioned.

[ApokalypseKid9]

@sourcers;
Do people got to these or other Store Formally Known As Altered States 1.5 events? I'd make the trip if there was regular high attendance.

[Bryant Cook]

There isn't, it's very low attendance; many of us work on Sundays.

[Michael Keller]

Why use store credit on things we'd like to pick up...when we can't pick them up anyways because:

a.) It's 'not allowed' on good things.
b.) Those items are jacked up in price anyways.

Supply and demand is ultimately a null factor in this instance anyways.

[Shriekmaw]

I would like to see instead of store credit offered as prizes for Legacy, instead maybe put up some duals that everyone in the format can use. If better prizes were offered, I'm sure the turnout for Sunday would improve.

Its not worth my time to drive out all that way and for only 8-10 people show up and play.

[bigbear102]

Or just allow us to use store credit for the cards we play with. If it's store credit then why can't we use it on anything in the store?

Play the Game store credit is a fine prize if:

1. You can use it on anything, excluding tourney entrys is fine.

2. It does not expire, or at least make it good for a year.

[Mulletus]

I feel like it's too little too late for Play the Game. They alienated their clientell and charge rediculous prices for singles, generally ruining a monopoly they had on the magic community.

1 Experation on store credit seems like theft. If they're out of stock of a card I need, why should I have to get a card I'll never play just to avoid loosing my winnings completely? You already have my money, that didn't expire did it?

2 No store credit on the cards that people actually have in their decks makes most folk buy cards from ebay. If you charge 45 for a card selling for 30 on ebay.. what's the difference if it's store credit? You dont pay out 100% of entry fees do you? Lets say 1 store credit dollar is 90cents.... it seems like a nice profit. Events cant cost that much to run, the 'judges' are on the clock either way, and the magic community is prolly easier to handle than the yugioh/pokemon crowds.

Oh well that's my 2cents. Maybe I'm way off base, and ity's why I don't have a store of my own in a mall trying to be the second largest in the US.

[scrumdogg]

Actually, in defense of Altered Story, unless they have changed the prize formula, they give out more store credit than they take in actual money. This does not in any way address the expiration date issue (although you guys have a year...you ought to be able to use store credit in a year...course, if you could buy playable cards at any point in time you wouldn't NEED to wait for a deal....). Also, the judges being on the clock isn't always accurate, the more events & players around, the more staff needs to be scheduled, there is a personnel cost associated with tournaments. If other store competition remains viable, however, they will have to deal with market pressure & respond to player concerns. That requires several things to happen, stupid Magic players not ruining the other store (see also what happened with Dave Amrod's store), Magic players actually communicating concerns to Altered Story, Chris P. being willing to change & adapt (and while he can be abrasive, he is a shrewd businessman & a gamer).

[Di]

although you guys have a year...you ought to be able to use store credit in a year...course, if you could buy playable cards at any point in time you wouldn't NEED to wait for a deal....).

Not a year, a month. Having only a month is a very short time. I've had store credit expire on me because of that like 6-7 times.

[Getsickanddie]

I'd like to play Magic at Altered States. I miss the old store. Unfortunately, I can only play every other weekend. And if I spent both Saturday AND Sunday on my weekend off playing Magic cards my girlfriend would probably kill me in my sleep.

Now if we could get an extended tournament going again on a weekday, I'd totally be down for that.

[bigbear102]

I'm not sure what their formula is, but I know I have figured it out and it was below the amount of money taken in. Maybe this is not true at every event, but it was for a couple that I attended before the attendance died. Since you've been gone there hasn't really been any relevant judging going on anyway, meaning that all they do is take signups and post the pairings, not a lot of extra labor there.

[Raider Bob]

The formula when Scrumdogg was there was around $6.35 per player or $1.35 over what the entry fee was, the way it is now you get $3.85 per player or $1.15 less per player they get in. As a player who has been going there for several years now, I have seen the prize structure shrink. The fact that he had no compitition and was the only 'Game' in town allowed him to do this...Now with another store running tournies hopefully he will remember that you want the players to come to your store and not feel like they are getting ass raped when they come in the store.

[alteredstates]

Players can use store credit on 99% of the product in the store. Right now the only things you can't use it on are Original duals and Future sight boosters. Without that stipulation those items would NEVER be in stock otherwise because players would use their store credit exclusively on those items only.
The FREE booster pack you get for playing is not part of the prize support, so the total payout for each tournament has gone up, and it's incentive for those "casual" players who don't have the cards to make tournament entry "profitable".

[bigbear102]

So what about the expiration date on the store credit? I live in Oswego and probably won't make it down there more than once a month, so my credit is wasted if I don't use it that day?

Excluding the packs you are giving out with entry....
The way I see it, if you have money coming in from the tournaments, and you give out an equal amount in prizes, you are essentially selling those cards/product, am I correct? If so, what is the difference between someone walking in and giving you cash for dual lands, or 20 people walking in giving you cash, and then 1 person taking dual lands. You should still be getting roughly the same amount of money for the cards. The same goes for Future Sight packs. I know you can't just "order" duals, but you can FS packs. Start ordering more boxes and let them be given as prizes. Like I said, you are still getting cash for them, just in the form of entry fees.

Another major problem with your store is the judging capabilities. I have seen several occasions where rulings were completely wrong, and when informed the "judge" did nothing. We were talking just the other day about a ruling made in your store recently that was wrong. It involved a recent draft, and was supposedly looked up on the computer and still ruled the wrong way. I understand mistakes are made, but I have seen a lot more made at your store than anywhere else.

I do appreciate the new push to get tourneys back in the store, but am kind of disappointed that it took this long to get your attention. I just hope that there isn't another backslide if you do manage to get the tourney numbers back up.

[Michael Keller]

Right now the only things you can't use it on are Original duals and Future sight boosters. Without that stipulation those items would NEVER be in stock otherwise because players would use their store credit exclusively on those items only.

If my math serves me correctly, considering the average turnout for Legacy events on any given Sunday (10=14), first place would baaaaarely have enough to afford an original dual land with their credit. Obtaining duals isn't that hard if you put the time and money into finding them. I think it would be a kind gesture toward your customers given the thrashing gas prices are giving us. I'd say it wouldn't have been an issue a year or two ago, but look at bigbear - he has to drive all the way from Oswego sometimes to get there, and that is an utterly devastating price to pay for a few packs of cards.

[Gulkahn]

Another major problem with your store is the judging capabilities. I have seen several occasions where rulings were completely wrong, and when informed the "judge" did nothing. We were talking just the other day about a ruling made in your store recently that was wrong. It involved a recent draft, and was supposedly looked up on the computer and still ruled the wrong way. I understand mistakes are made, but I have seen a lot more made at your store than anywhere else.


Stores aside, as a magic player in or out of the event, why isn't it just shown to the "judge" the proper ruling with the facts to back it up using the comprehensive rules, in any circumstance the facts are either on the card or in the rules and can and should be explained for the better of the environment. Another thing with rulings is that they need to be address at the time they occur, not after the match.
should a bad/wrong ruling be made, find a way of correcting it other than whining about it on a forum. 9 time out of 10 the person will admit they are wrong especially when proven with the facts.

none-the-less I dont this this is the topic of the Thread. Im not a mod or anything but this seems to be getting off topic some... if the store wishes to run events again after not running as many in a while they are at least trying to improve. as i stated before for the better of the community, just help the person make the correct ruling with facts not just saying "well blah blah blah"

as for play the game running the legacy on sundays if i didnt have to work i would be there! i feel that their payout in store credit is fair, of course im not going to complain if they pay out more... im not one of those people that need/want to make money from play magic of course again im not going to complain if i do... so what you cant use store credit on some dual lands... and if you play legacy you should already have them anyways.

as for not letting people use it on new product: if im not mistaken they only have that for like a month or so...

[Gulkahn]

If my math serves me correctly, considering the average turnout for Legacy events on any given Sunday (10=14), first place would baaaaarely have enough to afford an original dual land with their credit. Obtaining duals isn't that hard if you put the time and money into finding them. I think it would be a kind gesture toward your customers given the thrashing gas prices are giving us. I'd say it wouldn't have been an issue a year or two ago, but look at bigbear - he has to drive all the way from Oswego sometimes to get there, and that is an utterly devastating price to pay for a few packs of cards.

as for the turn out... the more people that show up the more the store can give out. should people show up, im sure they would more than happy to give out more credit and/or prizes. look at their June 16th event: (i know its not legacy) top 4 finishes get to split up a frickin CASE for only $10 each....

as for sunday 1.5's according to their website in june they are giving out free packs with entry in addition to the store credit. as for the low turn outs that can really only be up to the players. i fully understand that the more one can get for their investment (entry fee) the better. just drag a friend along with you to increase the prize pool.

as for those that have to make a timely drive to play in a event, if it were me i would be trying to increase my chances of having a better turn out by making sure people know about the event that i would be attending.

[Mulletus]

I dont see how hard it is to keep the store stocked with dual lands. A cash buy list and ebay should keep you supllied for the demand. I wasn't an economics major, but if you sell those cards the most... wouldn't you want a healthy amount on hand to sell and make a profit off of? I mean Wegman's doesn't stop letting people use coupons on milk because everyone would get it. They stock up on milk to reap the benifits of the deal they're giving out.

[bigbear102]

Stores aside, as a magic player in or out of the event, why isn't it just shown to the "judge" the proper ruling with the facts to back it up using the comprehensive rules, in any circumstance the facts are either on the card or in the rules and can and should be explained for the better of the environment. Another thing with rulings is that they need to be address at the time they occur, not after the match.
should a bad/wrong ruling be made, find a way of correcting it other than whining about it on a forum. 9 time out of 10 the person will admit they are wrong especially when proven with the facts.

none-the-less I dont this this is the topic of the Thread. Im not a mod or anything but this seems to be getting off topic some... if the store wishes to run events again after not running as many in a while they are at least trying to improve. as i stated before for the better of the community, just help the person make the correct ruling with facts not just saying "well blah blah blah"


Well as a matter of fact the "judge" that day claimed that he was too busy to actually look up the correct ruling. During the match several people mentioned to him that the ruling was wrong, with many being unsure. I would not be "whining about in on a forum" if the judge had taken the time to do his job. He would not even take 30 seconds after he made up his mind to listen to anyone trying to explain it. He is not experienced in magic, and did not even take the 5 minutes to educate himself to make the correct ruling. He actually said that it was not worth his time to do it, which cost someone a match taking them out of contention I believe.

The other instance I mentioned in the draft I was not present for, but heard about it when the same ruling came up at Comixzone.

As for being off topic I believe that everything I said is extremely relevant. If the store advertises on these forums, why isn't it OK to bring up the problems we have with the store on these forums? I'm not sure who you are, but the reason they stopped running so many events is because the attendance was failing due to the fact they had a monopoly and were gauging.

I don't need to make money playing magic either, but I would rather not give my money to the store and not have the compensation we deserve. If you have a problem with the content in this thread I suggest you just read the first post of announcements and then stop reading.


@ Mulletus, good point, I think somebody once called that Capitalism, or the law of supply and demand, or something silly like that.