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View Full Version : ICBM Podcast--Banned/Restricted List Updates



Tha Gunslinga
05-30-2007, 01:46 AM
New ICBM podcast up about the upcoming Banned/Restricted list update.

Enjoy

http://feed.teamicbm.com/

JACO
05-30-2007, 03:29 AM
This, along with the Menendian Flash podcast, was my favorite so far. There are actually a lot of funny lines in this one.

Ben: "...except, you can't Rancor up Black Vise."

Ben: "Let's talk about a format that actually matters."
I@n: "You mean Legacy?"
Ben: "Yeah, Legacy."

Ben: "...Pact of Negation, which is like the best defensive counterspell ever." --->umm, no.

I@n: "...well, Ringleader is like, certainly the best Concentration on legs ever..."

Ben: "Voltaic Key is effectively banned in Vintage, just like 5000 other cards which are too slow, and irrelevant." --->this is my favorite part of the whole podcast

I'm sorry I@n, but Land Tax sucks in a format where cards like AEther Vial and Goblin Lackey and Lion's Eye Diamond are unrestricted and legal.

Cards I would like to see come off the Legacy Banned list (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=judge/resources/sfrtype15):
Chaos Orb - And don't even be a jackass and complain about 'manual dexterity.' SHUFFLING YOUR DECK requires manual dexterity. You want to tear up your Chaos Orb into 50 pieces? Go ahead and throw $50 away in a single game. I don't mind. Really, I don't.
Dream Halls - I'm on the fence about this one, but someone please show me a deck that breaks this
Entomb - Yes, it would make Reanimator really good, but if it was legal in Extended and Benzo wasn't even that broken (in a format without Swords to Plowshares and Force of Will), I think it deserves a place in Legacy on a trial basis at the very least
Falling Star - see Chaos Orb
Land Tax
Mind Over Matter - go ahead and combo off with Niv-Mizzet for 12 mana. Seriously, put it in your deck right now.
Replenish - I would really be keeping my eye on this with all the fast mana available, and that fact that it is insane in Enchantress, which is unfortunately what would worry me the most. I have a feeling this would eventually end up back on the banned list, but I would like to see 6 months to a year of this to find out.

Cards I would like to see come off the Vintage Banned list (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=judge/resources/sfrtype1):
Chaos Orb
Falling Star

Cards I would like to see come off the Vintage Restricted list (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=judge/resources/sfrtype1):
Black Vise
Crop Rotation
Enlightened Tutor
Regrowth
Voltaic Key

dre4m
05-30-2007, 07:06 AM
Cards I would like to see come off the Vintage Restricted list (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=judge/resources/sfrtype1):

Crop Rotation


You might want to think long and hard about this card in a format with Academies, Bazaars, Workshops, and Libraries.

Silverdragon
05-30-2007, 07:54 AM
And Strip Mine.
I agree that should Land Tax be unbanned in the future it has to be on a seperate occassion without any other format changes.
Replenish is really borderline and 4x Entomb would just be crazy with Dredge.
4x Regrowth in Vintage seems a bit scary too because of cards like Gifts and Intuition.

Oh and if I had Flashes I'd eat them too.

Tinefol
05-30-2007, 08:45 AM
Silverdragon,
It kind of struck me... Regrowth is scary, while Recollect (or even Eternal Witness) is not? Is that ONE mana is a matter of such relevance? And nobody plays Recollect in Vintage.

Cait_Sith
05-30-2007, 09:14 AM
Is that ONE mana is a matter of such relevance?

Yes, it is. In ALL FOUR FORMATS. One mana can make the difference between unplayable jank and a powerhouse. If the Ravnica signets cost 3 they would useless, but at 2 they are a major factor in turning Standard into a very control heavy meta.

Berserk is monstrously powerful, but Fatal Frenzy, at just 2 colorless mana more, is jank and isn't played in any competitive deck in any format.

At 1 Vial is probably one of the strongest artifacts in the game (not counting the broken ones). At 2 it would be good, but hardly the powerhouse that it is.

In Legacy, where the goal is to be doing as much as possible every turn, having something cost one more can make it useless.

C.P.
05-30-2007, 10:55 AM
Chaos Orb - And don't even be a jackass and complain about 'manual dexterity.' SHUFFLING YOUR DECK requires manual dexterity. You want to tear up your Chaos Orb into 50 pieces? Go ahead and throw $50 away in a single game. I don't mind. Really, I don't.
Dream Halls - I'm on the fence about this one, but someone please show me a deck that breaks this
Entomb - Yes, it would make Reanimator really good, but if it was legal in Extended and Benzo wasn't even that broken (in a format without Swords to Plowshares and Force of Will), I think it deserves a place in Legacy on a trial basis at the very least
Falling Star - see Chaos Orb
Land Tax
Mind Over Matter - go ahead and combo off with Niv-Mizzet for 12 mana. Seriously, put it in your deck right now.
Replenish - I would really be keeping my eye on this with all the fast mana available, and that fact that it is insane in Enchantress, which is unfortunately what would worry me the most. I have a feeling this would eventually end up back on the banned list, but I would like to see 6 months to a year of this to find out.


Manual Dexterity does not fit into where the game is going. Try, in a highly completive setting, to decide game with chaos orb, and see what kind of chaos it makes. It WILL cause fits and fights. Really. Magic is not a game of dexterity. Don't give me a crap about shuffling your deck. Your opponent gets to shuffle your deck if he think you did not do a fair job. Go play some random sports if you want to show your throwing skills.


Regarding other cards:

Dream Halls: There are many spells that are powerful enough to break this card. Try time stretch, even. Getting a CIP/LP ability for 1U causes this much commotion, and now you are going to make every spell free? Sounds very dangerous.

Entomb: Sounds Dangerous, but might be ok. other tier 2(compared to demonic and vampiric) tutors are not broken in the format, so I guess it can see the light of the day.

Land Tax: This card is slow as balls. Also make you play lots of basic lands. Should be unbanned.

Mind Over Matter: There are better ways of abusing this card then the dragon, but it does not change the fact that this card sucks. Doesn't have to be banned.

Replenish: Bad and fragile combo card. As a control card, It will be interesting. Either way, I'd like to see it unbanned.


Personally, I'd like to see hermit druid back, as well. But then, if they do not ban flash, they can bring Vise, Dragon and any cards mentioned above, just for the fuck of it.

FoolofaTook
05-30-2007, 10:58 AM
Personally, I'd like to see hermit druid back, as well. But then, if they do not ban flash, they can bring Vise, Dragon and any cards mentioned above, just for the fuck of it.

If they don't ban Flash they can bring Channel back. It might be way overpowered but my guess is nobody will be playing much Legacy so who cares?

Pale Moon FTW
05-30-2007, 11:52 AM
Chaos Orb and Falling Star are really some of the last card I'd like to see unbanned. They just don't fit into Magic at all. First of course there's the problem of throwing skills, but also the problem that its effectivenes is greatly influenced by how your opponent places his permanents, the width of the table and a lot of other things that shouldn't have anything to do with Magic. Also it requires a ruler to throw it from the exact minimum height.

I used to think that the banned list sucked and all kinds of underpowered cards were in there, but as I pondered it through I've actually found that far the most of them are there for a good reason. The only ones I think should be banned are Mind Over Matter and Dream Halls (Both has too high mana costs to be broken).

Pinder
05-30-2007, 12:05 PM
If they don't ban Flash they can bring Channel back. It might be way overpowered but my guess is nobody will be playing much Legacy so who cares?

And really, what are people going to do with Channel anyway? Myr Incubator? Fireball? It just seems like anything you could do could be undone with a well timed Lightning Bolt, etc.

Bardo
05-30-2007, 12:33 PM
I'd actually love to see Falling Star unbanned. That card is freaking fun as hell. Chaos Orb is a little too powerful though and would be kind of obnoxious in a tournament setting, especially if the tables were cramped with gamers to your left and right. But Falling Star? Bring it on.

That Land Tax is banned is just bizarre. I'd love to be in on the conversation when that was decided to be banned. What exactly were they thinking?

If Mind Over Matter were unbanned, I doubt it would even be played.

SpatulaOfTheAges
05-30-2007, 01:02 PM
I'd actually love to see Falling Star unbanned. That card is freaking fun as hell. Chaos Orb is a little too powerful though and would be kind of obnoxious in a tournament setting, especially if the tables were cramped with gamers to your left and right. But Falling Star? Bring it on.

Aren't you allowed to just resort your board in response to Falling Star, re: Hurloon Wrangler ruling?

Zach Tartell
05-30-2007, 01:14 PM
Aren't you allowed to just resort your board in response to Falling Star, re: Hurloon Wrangler ruling?

Not if they quicken -> falling star. Because your hands only move at sorcery speed.

Bardo
05-30-2007, 01:22 PM
Aren't you allowed to just resort your board in response to Falling Star, re: Hurloon Wrangler ruling?

I've heard of that ruling, but don't know if it really exists. Why would the DCI write rules for cards that are banned in tournament play? But from a flavor perspective I can see where it would make sense to rearrange your board: "Holy shit, what's that? Meddling Mage, you hide near that scrubland; I'll [Dark Confidant] take cover near the tundra."

That last sentence was pretty lame, but you get the point. :)

SpatulaOfTheAges
05-30-2007, 01:28 PM
If you can hide one card under another, you could pull off Operation Human Shield.

Slay
05-30-2007, 01:39 PM
And really, what are people going to do with Channel anyway? Myr Incubator? Fireball? It just seems like anything you could do could be undone with a well timed Lightning Bolt, etc.

Goblin Charbelcher.

Bardo
05-30-2007, 01:43 PM
If you can hide one card under another, you could pull off Operation Human Shield.

Seems like they'd still get crushed to death (or take 3 damage, whatever). When a freaking meteor lands on your head, it's not like you're doing any favors for someone below you.

Mulletus
05-30-2007, 01:47 PM
When they drop it I would TigerChunLee swat that shit in mid-air to their side of the board. I dont think the card says I can't.

Bardo
05-30-2007, 02:11 PM
When they drop it I would TigerChunLee swat that shit in mid-air to their side of the board. I dont think the card says I can't.

I couldn't find it in the DCI Floor Rules (http://www.wizards.com/dci/downloads/DCI_UTR_1dec06_EN.txt), but other than shuffling can you touch your opponent stuff unless a card tells you to? Like if you're playing High Tide and Meddling Mage is keeping you from going off, can you just reach over and flick it onto the floor? I don't think so. Anyway, if you swatted my Falling Star out of the air, I'd call a judge and see where it went.

Aggro_zombies
05-30-2007, 02:28 PM
I couldn't find it in the DCI Floor Rules (http://www.wizards.com/dci/downloads/DCI_UTR_1dec06_EN.txt), but other than shuffling can you touch your opponent stuff unless a card tells you to? Like if you're playing High Tide and Meddling Mage is keeping you from going off, can you just reach over and flick it onto the floor? I don't think so. Anyway, if you swatted my Falling Star out of the air, I'd call a judge and see where it went.
I think you can. I've looked through my opponent's graveyards and picked up cards of theirs to read them before, but I generally ask first.

Besides, it would be pretty damn funny to try knocking a Falling Star out of the air with a Counterspell. "NATO has just launched a Force of Will bearing a nuclear warhead! Will it destroy the meteor in time to save the Earth?! *cue Aerosmith music*"

Barook
05-30-2007, 02:49 PM
Screw hitting cards on the board with Chaos Orb - just flip it onto your opponent and destroy target player.

jamest
05-30-2007, 05:31 PM
I like these podcasts. I even like the elevator jingle at the very beginning and end. Good job guys.

C.P.
05-30-2007, 05:52 PM
Besides, it would be pretty damn funny to try knocking a Falling Star out of the air with a Counterspell. "NATO has just launched a Force of Will bearing a nuclear warhead! Will it destroy the meteor in time to save the Earth?! *cue Aerosmith music*"

*Cue Aerosmith rip*

You don't wanna close your eyes. You don't wanna fall asleep 'cause you will miss it, and you don't wanna miss any of that.

*end of rip*

I think It kinda proves that dexterity cards should never ever be off the list.

Aggro_zombies
05-31-2007, 04:25 AM
Screw hitting cards on the board with Chaos Orb - just flip it onto your opponent and destroy target player.
What if they dodge and it hits the table instead? Do we have to call IBA in to jump on the table and destroy it? And whose graveyard would the table go in? Probably the store's, since the store is the table's controller at the time it's destroyed...

EDIT: Does the table count as a creature? Cuz if it does, then you could cast Dance of the Dead or something on it and return it to play under your control. Mmmm, free tables. Home furnishing has never been this easy.

Pale Moon FTW
05-31-2007, 06:36 AM
Unless he StPs it then the table starts harvesting o_O