(Non-adepts) [Question 7] How to Strengthen the Weaker Colors?

[tivadar]

Since I don't have permission to post there, I'm going to put in my 2 cents here and figure others can do likewise.

I see the real problem-color as white. This is largely due to the fact that other colors have stolen many of its abilities, and its ability to put weenie creatures on the board reasonably quickly is largely no longer relevant/outclassed by green.

People have mentioned giving white more removal, but let's face it, it has enough creature-based instant removal. Condemn and STP are more than good enough, and other colors have similar abilities as is.

What white has that NO other color has quite as well is protection. I think Wotc would go a long way in boosting this. Mother is just no longer competitive given that it lags a turn. A Mother of Runes with haste would begin to look appealing again. On top of this, cards with actual protection just fall short. 2 mana for a 1/2 pro-creature, 4 mana for a 2/4 flyer pro-creature, 4 mana for a 2/3 pro mono-colored? What makes these abilities so costly? Give well-costed creatures protection or the ability to grant protection and I think you'll see a decent resurgence of white.

Green gets the big fatties. White's creatures should be smaller (though well costed), but well protected. Knight of the Holy Nimbus is a reasonable start to this actually, but he's susceptible to STP, sacrifice effects, and "bury" effects (no regeneration). He can also be chump blocked fairly easily and his ability to protect himself can be taken away, which makes him rather bad in the late game.

There's lots that could be done here, but I can see this giving white an extra edge. Especially if a critter could grant protection to other critters (or even players!) fairly easily. This way players could protect things like meddling mages without having to wait a full turn.

Anyways, that's my 2 cents.

[Phantom]

I like this. Assuming we're tweaking the colors JUST for Legacy, here's what I would do:

White - The one everyone seems focused on. I agree that white does not need more spot removal. A more versitile sweeper might be in order (Something like CC of X, destroy all creatures od CC X and below. You must control 2 plains to cast). As for combo hate, I'm not as down on white as others are. My biggest complaint is Glowrider, which I would really like to be maindeckable (WW for 2/2 might do the trick). Also, another chant like stall effect would be cool.

Green - I think I made myself clear on my fixing green thread, but I think while greens power level is acceptable, green needs to be more viable as a mono color (every other color is after all, and the recent green power cards all require or encourage splashing). Green heavy creature removal. Combo hate. Some uber powerful land destruction.

Black - Black should have gotten Rite of Flame, but now that it's out there, I really don't want to see more accelerants for combo to abuse. I actually think Blacks power level is pretty good, but some crappy artifact or enchantment hate might fit well. And some good 4cc beaters would go a long way I think.

Blue - Blue is clearly at a high power level, but I think it could use some playable cards that aren't draw spells and counters (i.e. the Thresh suite). Maybe some fat finishers to help out MUC.

Red - The only thing I can think of for red is another playable tribe, like Dwarves or Minotaurs...

[Illissius]

I think, looking at the color pie in a global sense (not Legacy or Standard in particular), that white is, indeed, the worst. It is notably the only color without any kind of either mana acceleration or card drawing. White weenies have proven to be a very limited path to relevance; the only other two significant assets in its slice of pie are removing any type of permanent other than lands, and the ever ambigious "setting rules". So, I suppose, those are where it could get some help, such as a white (nonland) Vindicate, or an Akroma's Vengeance for a mana fewer and sans cycling. Setting rules, due to its very genericity, has huge potential (as evidenced by its previous tenure under blue), and could give white a much needed boost if they were less timid in using it.

Green has been the whipping boy for so long, and some people are still so hellbent on "fixing" it, that many don't realize it pretty much has been already. It has great creatures, is the only color with both mana acceleration and card drawing, and can deal with any permanents other than creatures. I think it and blue are the two strongest colors right now.

[Xero]

I think White and Black need the most help. I don't really care about Black, but maybe some more good discard would help. White needs more anti-combo effects and some sort of card advantage outside of sweepers. How about:

"Name"
1W
Enchantment
Whenever a spell is played, counter it unless that spells owner sacrafices a permanent.

"Name"
WW
Creature
Whenever a creature attacks, "X" deals 1 damage to it
1/3

"Name"
WW
Enchantment
Whenever a player cycles a card, you may draw a card.

[Rabbi Dan]

Unless I miscounted, there are only two cards on the legacy banned list that are white, Balance and Landtax. I really don't see these two cards as being format breaking, even if they are powerful, and I think unbanning them would give white the power it needs.

Mind Twist should also be unbanned. While it is also powerful, it isn't format defining.

These two changes would help both of the underpowered colors, and they would make the banned list a place reserved for format breaking cards.



Also, the weakness of White and Black has to do with the strength of goblins. Look into banning Aether Vial or Goblin Lackey or creating some decent artifact that can hose goblins completely. Something like:

2
Stolen Battleplans

No player may attack with more than two creatures per turn that share a creature type.

[Citrus-God]

Has everyone forgot White can still hold it's own. IBA's Wombat is a good example of a Control deck. It makes consistent land drops, and is very good at finding answers, or even stalling until it can find it's answers. I also really like the newer builds. It's less reliant on Humility, it digs very deep via cantrip, and

[My Name Is Scott]

Has everyone forgot White can still hold it's own. IBA's Wombat is a good example of a Control deck. It makes consistent land drops, and is very good at finding answers, or even stalling until it can find it's answers. I also really like the newer builds. It's less reliant on Humility, it digs very deep via cantrip, and
Never mind the fact that combo is an autoloss even if you side in 15 cards. Good thing noone plays combo in legacy. :wink:

[Pinder]

It's less reliant on Humility, it digs very deep via cantrip, and

....and?

Honeslty, though, I think that Truffle Shuffle is better than Wombat anyway because it has support from other colors. Sure, white probably can stand on its own, but it has a lot to gain from splashing other colors.

[Goblin Snowman]

....and?

Honeslty, though, I think that Truffle Shuffle is better than Wombat anyway because it has support from other colors. Sure, white probably can stand on its own, but it has a lot to gain from splashing other colors.

Don't most decks gain from splashing at least one other color? Unless you're really freaked out about Wasteland or are running a manabase with too many colorless sources, you should likely be splashing.

I'm not sure why everyone has gotten the idea that White is the weakest color, or that White has gotten no playable cards recently (for reference, Serra Avenger, Jotun Grunt, Magus of the Tabernacle, Knight of the Holy Nimbus, Stonecloaker, Aven Mindcensor, and possibly Judge Unworthy).

White has some of the best combo hate in the format with Orim's Chant, True Believer, Rule of Law, Glowrider, Abeyance, and a few I'm sure I'm forgetting. Compare this to Green or Red; Green has nothing and Red has Pyrostatic Pillar and.....umm..... Red Elemental Blast?

In addition to these, White is the anti-creature color. Look at any White-Based control deck, or Angel Stompy, and tell me I'm wrong. With Wrath of God, White Weenies, Disenchant, Armageddon, Swords, Moat, Humility and the best win conditions in the format for control I'm not sure that White needs anything else.