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The Rack
07-17-2007, 11:43 PM
In your guys opiniion what are the top 10 staples of Legacy throughout the format in all of its entirety. There are many possible cards out there but reasons would be great if added. My 10: (in no order)

1. Brainstorm
2. Lightning Bolt
3. Wasteland
4. Swords to Plowshares
5. Force of Will
6. Dark Ritual
7. Dark COnfidant
8. Stifle
9. Fetchland
10. Aether Vial

Bovinious
07-17-2007, 11:54 PM
In no particular order:

Dual Lands
Fetch Lands
Force of Will
AEther Vial
Brainstorm
Daze
Tarmogoyf
Burning Wish
Empty the Warrens
Lion's Eye Diamond

C.P.
07-18-2007, 12:36 AM
1. Dual Lands
2. Fetch Lands

These allows great flexibility in mana base, giving every decks in the format ability to have easy access to splash.

3. Force of Will

It probably is holding the format together. Keeps anything that's too fast in check.

4. Wasteland

While Duals and fetches are fueling multicolor, wastelands keeps them in check. The last extended season shows how messy the format would be without these.

5.Brainstorm

The best Draw spell in legacy.

6. Empty The Warrens
7. Tarmogoyf
8. Goblin lackey

Defines the threats in Legacy.

9. Swords to plowshares
10. Stifle

Cheap answers that you should be expecting from your opponent.

Bardo
07-18-2007, 01:08 AM
Oh hell, why not...

(In no order, except for the first two and kidding on the last one.)

Onslaught Fetchlands
A/B/U/R Duals
Basic lands
Brainstorm
Swords to Plowshares
Lion's Eye Diamond
Tarmogoyf
Pithing Needle
AEther Vial
The 4-of Goblins
Mental Note

Something to that effect.

scrumdogg
07-18-2007, 01:41 AM
1. Dual Lands
2. Fetch Lands

These allows great flexibility in mana base, giving every decks in the format ability to have easy access to splash.

3. Force of Will

It probably is holding the format together. Keeps anything that's too fast in check.

4. Wasteland

While Duals and fetches are fueling multicolor, wastelands keeps them in check. The last extended season shows how messy the format would be without these.

5.Brainstorm

The best Draw spell in legacy.

6. Empty The Warrens
7. Tarmogoyf
8. Goblin lackey

Defines the threats in Legacy.

9. Swords to plowshares
10. Stifle

Cheap answers that you should be expecting from your opponent.

Agreed with the exception of number 5, I would argue that Engineered Explosives is as important. Board control, especially non-specific baord control, helps to keep the format in check along with Force of Will.

thefreakaccident
07-18-2007, 01:51 AM
the 10 single important cards; no order (and completely my opinion):
wasteland
force of will
Aether vial
krosan grip
swords to plowshares
tarmogoyf
LED
mountain
island

raharu
07-18-2007, 02:10 AM
Again, no order:

Duress (although it is dead in a few MU's)
Force of Will
Lightning Bolt
Dual lands
Fetch lands
Cabal Therapy
Swords to Plowshares
Stifle
Tormod's Crypt
Burning wish

Note: Crypt was chosen because it pretty much is the best way to hate on a graveyard that is in every color.

Tosh
07-18-2007, 02:59 AM
Mana Base:

Fetchlands
Dual LandsGeneral Staples:

Brainstorm
Force of Will
Swords to PlowsharesTop Win Conditions:

Tarmogoyf
Empty the WarrensControl:

Crucible of Worlds
Counterbalance/Sensei's Divining Top
Dark ConfidantI didn't really count but those are the most important cards in Legacy ATM and IMHO. I wanted to add Basic Island but yeah...

AngryTroll
07-18-2007, 04:29 AM
The lands are obvious
1) Duals
2) Fetches
And to a lesser extent, Wasteland

3) Force of Will

Cards that see play in many archetypes:

4) Brianstorm and assorted Cantrips (seriously...Portent, Serum Visions, and Mental Note/Predict see almost as much play as Bainstorm itself, and for the extra few dollars, they are well worth owning.)

5) Pyroclasm (Engineered Explosives)
I constantly find myself digging for more Pyroclasms...every deck that runs red has a few Pyroclasms in the board to deal with the Goblin Hoards, both Storm- and Lackey- powered.

6) Tarmogoyf

7) Swords to Plowshares

8) Nimble Mongoose
Mongeese are finding their way into more and more decks, besides just Thresh. If you run green, Mongoose will probably at least be tested in your deck.

9) Cabal Therapy

10) Lightning Bolt / Magma Jet

11) Pithing Needle, Stifle, Aether Vial, (Engineered Explosives appears here also)
All really strong support cards, flexible enough to be staples, but not as "powerful" as some of the above cards. Really, these may be the most important staples, right up there with the lands and the Forces.

The More Specific Cards:
All of these are staples, but are much more limited than the cards above that will at least be tested in almost any deck playing that color.

Lion's Eye Diamonds, Empty the Warrens, and Burning Wishes.
May be your number one staples, if you are a dirty combo player.

The Goblins
Again, for a stupid aggro player, these are going to top the list.

Meddling Mage
For the manipulative control players.

Pernicious Deed

For those of you that really hate judges: Humility. Seriously...how big, exactly, is that Golgari Grave Troll?

Crystaline Sliver
Volt and Pinder, I'm looking at you. I know you two run at least 27 in Meathooks.

mikekelley
07-18-2007, 04:31 AM
I'm going to interpret this as 'cards you always should have access to'

Fetches
Duals
Force of Will
Swords to Plowshares
Lightning Bolt
Brainstorm
Pithing Needle
Dark Ritual
Stifle
Pernicious Deed

You play 1.5, you own these cards. There are a number of cards which are fantastic (Tarmogoyf, Vial, Meddling Mage, such and so forth) but they aren't absolutely necessary. The above I believe should be a 4x in every Legacy player's collection, if not all the duals than at least the blue duals. Pernicious Deed might not fit in that list but it is the best board sweeper ever printed and for that reason it just might be necessary.

Maveric78f
07-18-2007, 04:39 AM
Lands :
Tropical Island
Polluted Delta

Creatures :
Dark Confidant
Goblin Lackey
Tarmogoyf

Instants :
FoW
Brainstorm

Sorceries :
...

Enchantments :
Pernicious Deed

Artifact :
Chalice of the Void
LED

Phya
07-18-2007, 09:14 AM
1. Dual Lands
2. Fetch Lands
3. Tarmogoyf
4. Force of Will
5. Brainstorm
6. Swords to Plowshares
7. Wasteland
8. Dark Confidant
9. Burning Wish
10. Life from the Loam

FoolofaTook
07-18-2007, 09:29 AM
The 10 cards I see most often:

1. Polluted Delta
2. Brainstorm
3. Force of Will
4. Bloodstained Mire
5. Pyroclasm
6. Goblin Lackey/Aether Vial (tie, both are in all the Goblin decks hereabouts)
7. Dark Ritual
8. Lion's Eye Diamond
9. Empty the Warrens
10. Wasteland

Fetchlands are more prevalent than duals because there are generally more of a specific fetchland in a deck than any of the specific duals it fetches.

The single most prevalent combo effect in my meta is Brainstorm-Fetchland.

Pale Moon FTW
07-18-2007, 09:30 AM
When talking about the greatest stables I think you need to think of them as cards that are required to have if you want to play a color. E.g. if you want to play blue you will have to get Brainstorms and if you're playing it as the main color also FoW. The same goes for StP and Lightning Bolt in all cases except in VialGoblins. No matter how great Lackey and Goyf are they're not in every deck of their color and aren't top stables (though they're stables w/o doubt).

1. Blue Duals
2. Flooded Strand, Polluted Delta, Wooded Foothills
3. Force of Will
4. Brainstorm
5. Swords to Plowshares
6. Lightning Bolt
7. Tormod's Crypt
8. Pithing Needle
9. Engineered Explosives
10. Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblast

Maveric78f
07-18-2007, 09:41 AM
Why not thinking of them as the ones you splash or build you deck for :
dark confidant (in fish or black thresh), tarmogoyf (in every thresh or whatever deck playing it, green is rarely the main colour), brainstorm (in blue gobs), daze (in blue gobs), life from the loam (how lovely would it be if lftl was blue or red ...), cabal therapy (terravore, lftl decks in general), chalice of the void (well you always have to build your deck around it), pernicious deed (landstill), ...

Whit3 Ghost
07-18-2007, 09:43 AM
1. Duals
2. Fetches

Defining Threats

3. Goblin Lackey
4. Goyf
5. Empty The Warrens

Defining Answers

6. Force of Will
7. Swords to Plowshares
8. Stifle

Defining Utility

9. Brainstorm
10. Dark Ritual

tivadar
07-18-2007, 10:16 AM
Well this should be easy, let's start off with the lands:

1. Fetchlands
2. Dual Lands (the originals)

Fetches are actually more important than duals in the current meta. They act as both mana of either color along with basic lands, which is big. There's also no need for more than 4 duals in any well-constructed deck. Now on to the control cards:

3. Engineered Explosives
4. Force of Will
5. Swords to Plowshares
6. Chalice of the Void
7. Lightning Bolt
8. Duress
9. Krosan Grip

These 7 are pretty much staples if you splash/can support them. There's no question that they're good in almost any deck that can handle them, or at the very least, in the board (in the case of chalice and a few others). They're either huge, on the whole, in the current meta, or just the best at what they do. Finally, the card advantage:

10. Brainstorm

He's the only one who makes it, remarkably outclassing anything else that might be able to. Confidant is overhyped and only useful in a rather narrow set of decks. Goyf is good, but also requires a bit of a strategy when playing him and is still very targetable. Wastelands are overrated in the current meta. It's good in goblins, but most decks are prepared for it. Pithing needle really is fairly narrow now, as is crypt.

zulander
07-18-2007, 10:24 AM
Best Singles
Lands
1 Duals
2 Fetchs
3 Wastes

Draw
4 Brainstorm

Control
5 Force of Will
6 Daze
7 Lightning Bolt
8 Swords to Plowshares
9 Duress

Beats
10 Tarmogoyf

Cards that define decks
1. Empty the Warrens (Storm Combo)

2. Goblin Lacky (Goblins)

3. Life From the Loam (Loam Control)

4. Survival of the Fittest (Survival Combo)

5. Ill Gotten Gains (Iggy Pop)

6. High Tide (High/Spring tide

7. Reset (Solidarity)

8. Dark Confidant (Deadguy Ale)

9. Standstill (Landstill)

10. Pox/Arcbound Ravager (debatable slot)

These are in no particular order.

Nightmare
07-18-2007, 10:56 AM
Tropical Island
Tundra
Volcanic Island
Underground Sea
Bayou
Taiga
Savannah

Flooded Strand
Polluted Delta
Windswept Heath
Wooded Foothills

Brainstorm

Every deck should run some combination of those cards. I don't care if I listed 12. Note that I intentionally left off the bad duals and the one set of Fetches that no one uses.

Silverdragon
07-18-2007, 11:15 AM
1. Fetchlands (get them before you get your duals)
2. Duallands (obvious)
3. Wasteland (many think they are overrated but that doesn't mean they aren't essential)
4. Chrome Mox
5. Ancient Tomb
6. Brainstorm
7. Force of Will
8. Swords to Plowshares
9. Pithing Needle
10. Duress

At first I wanted to only list cards that build your manabase but most of the cards are more narrow than I first thought so colored cards made it onto my list. Basically if you play with blue you want to play BS and Force, same goes for Swords and Duress. Maybe Pithing Needle can be replaced by Engineered Explosives.

Samshire
07-18-2007, 12:12 PM
How come everyone keeps on counting the Duals as just 1 slot in their top 10 staples? And does this mean that Savannah is an important part of many legacy decks?

My list is something like...

1. Force of Will
2. Flooded Strand
3. Polluted Delta
4. Tropical Island
5. Wooded Foothills
6. Underground Sea
7. Tundra
8. Taiga
9. Volcanic Island
10. Steamflogger Boss

feuerizer
07-18-2007, 12:38 PM
Some are categories, but I think that these can be seen as one slot.

In no particular order:

Duals
Fetches
Wasteland
Swords to Plowshares
Brainstorm
Force of Will
Duress
Empty the Warrens
Pernicious Deed
Tarmogoyf

Hoojo
07-18-2007, 02:09 PM
1. Onslaught Fetchlands: Very important, particularly if you don't own all the duals (yet!)
2. A/B/U/R Dual Lands: Particularly the blue and green producers.
3. Lion's Eye Diamond: If you plan on playing combo, you need these.
4. Brainstorm: Greatest draw spell in Legacy.
5. Swords to Plowshares: Greatest spot removal in Legacy.
6. Force of Will: A must in decks composed of 70% or more blue. Possibly the greatest counter in Legacy.
7. Duress: Greatest discard spell in Legacy.
8. Dark Ritual: Greatest accelerant in Legacy. Only weakness is that it only produces :b:.
9. Wasteland: In a deck that can capitolize on tempo, this card is a must. This card alone sets a standard for how manabases are designed.
10. A Goblin Deck: Honestly, Goblins is just good.

Joe_C
07-18-2007, 02:16 PM
1. dual lands
2. fetchlands
3. brainstorm
4. force of will
5. swords to plowshares
6. umezawa's jitte
7. pithing needle
8. daze(yeah laugh, but it keeps the game in your favor quite often)
9. engineered plague
10. pernicious deed

Eldariel
07-18-2007, 04:52 PM
Fetches
Duals
Force of Will
Lion's Eye Diamond
Burning Wish
Goblin Lackey
Tarmogoyf
Swords to Plowshares
Duress
Dark Ritual

Something like that. Of course the cards are impossible to rate objectively without doing way more math than I'm prepared for, but those cards are all definitely up there.

Tacosnape
07-18-2007, 05:22 PM
1. Onslaught Fetchlands
2. Revised Dual Lands
3. Force of Will
4. Swords to Plowshares
5. Pithing Needle
6. Duress
7. Cabal Therapy
8. Umezawa's Jitte
9. Meddling Mage
10. Engineered Explosives

I think these are going to fit into more decks than any other cards.

andrew77
07-18-2007, 05:31 PM
in no particular order...

1- Brainstorm
2- Dark ritual
3- Dual lands
4- wasteland
5- StP
6- lotus petal
7- goblin lackey
8- force of will
9- lions eye diamond
10- fetchlands

BreathWeapon
07-18-2007, 05:57 PM
1-Lion's Eye Diamond
2-Force of Will

These two cards define our format together, the first for being the card that creates turn one wins and the second for being the card that prevents turn one wins.

3-Empty the Warrens
4-Tarmogoyf

These two cards are the threats that make both combo viable against aggro-control and aggro-control viable against aggro.

5-Stifle

Prevents turn one wins (on the play) Time Walks and Stone Rains an opponent after a Wasteland or fetchland activation, enables Dreadnoughts and does a slue of other useful things.

6-Brainstorm

Best draw spell in the format.

7-Duress

Best discard spell in the format.

8-Engineered Explosives

Best universal answer in the format

9-Chalice of the Void

One of the most important MD or SB disruption spells in the format and the most important generator of virtual card advantage.

10-Jotun Grunt

One of the best all around threats that also deals with graveyard dependent decks at the same time.

Bane of the Living
07-18-2007, 10:30 PM
Tropical Island
Tundra
Volcanic Island
Underground Sea
Bayou
Taiga
Savannah

Flooded Strand
Polluted Delta
Windswept Heath
Wooded Foothills

Brainstorm

Every deck should run some combination of those cards. I don't care if I listed 12. Note that I intentionally left off the bad duals and the one set of Fetches that no one uses.

Bloodstained Mire?? The one Goblins and Red Death run? I would've left Bayou off your list before Mire.

My list is based off @ this time like the thread is titled.

Brainstorm
Lions Eye Diamond
Engineered Explosives
Chalice of the Void
Empty the Warrens
Bridge from Below
Swords to Plowshares
Aether Vial
Umezawa's Jitte
Force of Will

Listing lands is obvious but boring.

Im surprised not many are mentioning Jitte and Im completely serious about Bridge from Below. Tarmagoyf is amazing and all but he's hardly staple to any decks. We still have Werebear. None of the other cards on my list have comparable playable cousins.

Bovinious
07-18-2007, 11:44 PM
Tropical Island
Tundra
Volcanic Island
Underground Sea
Bayou
Taiga
Savannah

Flooded Strand
Polluted Delta
Windswept Heath
Wooded Foothills

Brainstorm

Every deck should run some combination of those cards. I don't care if I listed 12. Note that I intentionally left off the bad duals and the one set of Fetches that no one uses.

I also think you are confused, Heath is the one that sucks.

technogeek5000
07-19-2007, 12:15 AM
A very generic list but ill give explanations for each.

Goblin lackey: Control decks or aggro control decks that can't answer a turn 1 lackey have faded away
Force of will: Nearly all decks that run blue run this card... Keeps combo in check
Wasteland: Run in goblins and several other decks... constricts 3-3+ color decks
Brainstorm: Best draw card in legacy... it's included in all blue aggro-control decks and many others
Swords to plowshares: Single greatest creature removal spell printed so far.
Tendrils of agony: The best win condition for non belcher combo decks
Empty the warrens: A great win condition that requires little set up.
Tarmogoyf: A strong contender for best 2cc creature. As it also incorperates the opponents graveyard it is immune to all yard hate that isnt planar vid.
Dark ritual: A fast and versatile card that quickens any deck it is put in.
Chalice of the void: The tier decks all are highly reliant on their 1 and 2cc spells. This card hampers or shuts down any deck that is not built around it.

C.P.
07-19-2007, 01:54 AM
I also think you are confused, Heath is the one that sucks.

No. GW sees far more play then BR. Just look at ***** or Counterslivers.

APriestOfGix
07-19-2007, 02:16 AM
IN ORDER!!!

(may be a BIT off)
(This is assuming a new player was like, what do i get, i tell him to buy in this order (assuming he will never play 1 deck for long.).).


1. Fetch Lands - There EVERYWHERE. Even in mono-color decks they are great, a MUST have!

2. Force Of Will - First card that came to mind when i saw this thread, keeps combo in check, and is Just plain amazing.

3. Empty The Warrens - Makes Combo Decks viable, and although not the main win, is still the main thing making an entire archtype playable.

4. Dual Lands - Any deck that runs teo colors runs these, amazing.

5. Lion's Eye Diamond - Make Combo viable, almost every version of combo run them, it's a Black Lotus!

6. Brainstorm - Best draw spell EVER! (yes better than recall, in some situations)

7. Wasteland - Keeps people from having what we had in Extended, and Standard, of every deck being 5 color.

8. Wish's - Is used in most combo decks, amazing card, as it's one of the few tutors we have.

9. Swords To Plowshare - Keeps fast starts in check, and huge mammoths late game.

10. Dark Ritual - Used to power out crazy stuff, even in non-combo decks, just plain best mana producer in the format, bar-none.


Others i want in here somewhere...

Chalice Of The Void
Infernal Tutor
Tendrils Of Agony
Lotus Petal
Chrome Mox
Life from the Loam
Duress

Illissius
07-19-2007, 01:01 PM
Can't this question be answered empirically? Gather decklists from tournaments, and tally the totals, consolidating multiple cards (fetches, dual, Goblins) if you feel like it. Is there any workable definition of staples which doesn't boil down to "most popular cards"? (other than, of course, small metal contraptions used to secure sheets of paper together)

APriestOfGix
07-19-2007, 05:49 PM
no, because popular cards ARE staples, popular cards are what drive formats, why do you think Elves! is even a deck?

noobslayer
07-19-2007, 06:15 PM
Mine aren't ordered, just categorized,

1. Duals
2. Fetches.
These shouldn't have to be explained as they are what truly defines our format.

3. Force of Will, I truly believe this is the home of force of will. It is probably the best card in the format.

4. Brainstorm. Our formats draw-3.

5. Empty the Warrens
6. Tarmogoyf

These are both the biggest recent additions to our format. They harbor an amazing power level given a deck built around them. Lackey comes close, but these two cards are so openly feared.

7. Goblin Lackey
8. Dark Confidant

These are just below the god tier threats in the format. Lackey requires a deck for it to be good, but when it does, it is the most powerful one mana card available in legacy. Dark Confidant is a card that has found an infinitesimally large amount of homes, in both competitive decks, and decks that have yet to really make it. He is also likely the best draw engine available, and has a body to beat with.

9. Swords to Plowshares/Pithing Needle
10. Pyroclasm

I'm not sure which of Swords or Needle deserves a spot. Both are powerful, although needle is more versatile, swords makes sure the threat stay taken care of. Pyroclasm though wholeheartedly deserves its place here. It's able to handle three of the threats listed above, is easily splashable, cheap to play (meaning you can actually get a huge early swing out of it, instead of having to wait and build mana before you can clear the board.), and helps certain decks tremendously against goblins.

from Cairo
07-25-2007, 06:03 AM
1. Fetches
2. Duals
3. Goblin Lackey
4. Lion's Eye Diamond
5. Force Of Will
6. Brainstorm
7. Swords to Plowshares
8. Engineered Explosives
9. Chalice of the Void
10. Dark Ritual

Runners up:
Aether Vial
Stifle
Duress
Tarmogoyf
Wasteland

Happy Gilmore
07-25-2007, 02:32 PM
Not Including Duals or fetchlands

1. Brainstorm
2. Force of Will
3. Tarmogoyf
4. Chalice of the Void
5. Swords to Plowshares
6. Lightning Bolt
7. Burning Wish
8. Aether Vial
9. Lions Eye Diamond
10. Krosan Grip

TheGoblinGeneral4
07-25-2007, 09:51 PM
Tho i am a lil biast towards Goblins, i am also a combo player (my 3 decks: VialGoblins, IGGY, and Solidarity)and IMHO in this order:

1. Any Duals that enable splash blue and or white
2. Rishadon Port
3. Goblin Lackey
4. FoW
5. LED
6. Fetches
7. Brainstorm
8. Aether Vial
9. Orim's chant
10. Storm mechanic (Brainfreeze, Tendrils, Empty TW)

Samshire
07-25-2007, 11:59 PM
Can't this question be answered empirically? Gather decklists from tournaments, and tally the totals, consolidating multiple cards (fetches, dual, Goblins) if you feel like it. Is there any workable definition of staples which doesn't boil down to "most popular cards"?
That seems like a lot more work than anyone would be willing to do.


(other than, of course, small metal contraptions used to secure sheets of paper together)

Paperclips? Is that what Riggers do now, assemble paperclips?

Shugyosha
07-26-2007, 07:14 AM
Can't this question be answered empirically? Gather decklists from tournaments, and tally the totals, consolidating multiple cards (fetches, dual, Goblins) if you feel like it. Is there any workable definition of staples which doesn't boil down to "most popular cards"? (other than, of course, small metal contraptions used to secure sheets of paper together)

This has been done by several sources. Ancient Memory Convention for example: http://f18.aaa.livedoor.jp/~nameless/AMC/AMC_26th_E.html (scroll down)

If you take out all lands which are obviously needed to always play a tier 1 deck (so I think Nightmare posted the best list of staples) the list for this single tourney comes down to:

01:Swords to Plowshares
02:Dark Confidant
03:Duress
04:Mogg Fanatic
05:Tarmogoyf
06:Pithing Needle
07:Tormod's Crypt
08:Umezawa's Jitte
09:Chalice of the Void
10:Chrome Mox

Alright what's missing:
(11:Lightning Bolt)
(12:Force of Will)

42 participants and only 4 Goblin decks as far as I can see, so Lackey & Piledriver are further down the list.

You all know that just one tournament is not representative but you'll see the similarities to the lists posted here.

gmorakis
07-30-2007, 08:02 PM
I was bored, so I compiled and tallied all the responses in this thread to get a sense of what the legacy community believes on average are the most important cards in the format. Listed below are only the cards which received multiple votes. 24 other cards had 1 vote each, so I didn't include those. A few explanations are necessary: every time someone mentioned multiple specific duals or fetches, I only added 1 to the respective category. Also, any time "goblins" were mentioned I counted that as 1 for Goblin Lackey, because it is the most relevant card. Hopefully these exceptions didn't skew the results too badly.

Force of Will 32
Fetchlands 30
Brainstorm 28
Dual Lands 28
Swords to Plowshares 27
Tarmogoyf 18
Lion's Eye Diamond 15
Empty the Warrens 14
Goblin Lackey 14
Wasteland 14
Duress 12
Aether Vial 10
Dark Ritual 10
Chalice of the Void 9
Lightning Bolt 9
Pithing Needle 9
Stifle 8
Burning Wish 7
Dark Confidant 7
Engineered Explosives 7
Pernicious Deed 5
Umezawa's Jitte 4
Cabal Therapy 3
Chrome Mox 3
Daze 3
Krosan Grip 3
Life from the Loam 3
Pyroclasm 3
Tendrils of Agony 3
Tormod's Crypt 3
Lotus Petal 2
Meddling Mage 2