What type of Legacy Player are you?

[tivadar]

Its come to my attention recently that there are two types of Magic players (and, therefor, Legacy players), those who win, and those who are nice.

This may sound a bit harsh, as you can still be nice and win. But what do you do when your opponent forgets to pay his Grunt's upkeep and asks if he can take it back? A nice guy will say sure, someone in it to win it will say no. How about when your opponent sacs his artifacts to ravager without passing priority and you have a jitte with a counter on it?

Yes, there are degrees of this. There are things that clearly border on cheating or misleading, and things that are just punishing your opponent for not being a good player. But still, are you nice or are you a winner?

As much as I hate to say it, I'm in it to win it. The issue with the ravager/jitte came up recently, and I called the guy on it. Did I feel somewhat bad about it? Yes. Would I have expected my opponent to do the same thing? Yes.

Honestly, I think playing fair, and allowing a little bit, is reasonable. Did you just play a foreign Tabernacle that your opponent didn't recognize and then he didn't pay his upkeep? Here I'd be a bit more understanding. In fact, when it came into play, I'd probably tell him exactly what it did rather than waiting for him to potentially make a mistake on it.

So how about you? Are you in it to win it or a nice player?

[Mister Agent]

I think im both but most of all i just like competiting in the format. So i get disappointed when someone drops from a tournament that i am looking forward to playing such as the source tournament. I just like having fun and that way your skill level come more naturally to you in my opinion.

[Bane of the Living]

Id go with both answers. I understand the situation you were in Eric.

You want to be nice and forgiving to keep people interested in coming to your store and playing in your format. Yet at the same time you dont want big mistakes to go free. Especially when they can be game winning.

I played against this same person at the Sea Drake tournament. I was playing Ichorid and we were in game three. I started the game off with a Leyline of the Void and wasnt secretive about it at all. 5-10 minutes into the game he's sitting with a good 5-6 artifacts, atog, and two disciple of the vault. He attacks me down a bit then declares me dead, sacrificing all his artifacts (without passing priority). I asked him if he was sure twice then pointed to my Leyline of the Void. Part of me wanted to let him take it back but part of me remembered this is why Im a better player than these people.

If you dont make mistakes and your opponent does it can be because of your playskill. That should reward you once and a while even if it makes you feel guilty.

If your clearly being an asshole you should know the difference. Being vague about japanese cards or quietly sneaking Tabernacles into play is bordering cheating.

[clavio]

I'm probably a lot more casual than a lot of players on this site. That being said, if I go out of my way to play (which I have to being there's no place to play around here) I'm not going to be "nice" and throw games away.

I routinely play relic orb. As such, I routinely play Tabernacle. When it comes into play I tell them what it does (unless they know already). If they draw a card without paying, their creatures die. End of story. I've forgotten to bring back nether spirit before, and I wouldn't even suggest bringing it back after I drew a card.

I'll be nice between rounds or afterwards. But while I'm playing, I'm going to do my best to win.

[Silverdragon]

Funny story. When I got back into competitive Magic I tried to be as tight as possible thinking that this mentality (you descibe as playing to win) would give me an edge against the more casual players at our local tournaments. At the first round of one of these tourneys while shuffling my opponent told me that he forgot 4 cards of his deck at home and I made him get a gameloss. He then won the match and I went 0-4 that day.
Last weekend I played against a young guy with Affinity and he made a suboptimal play but recognized it and requested a takeback. I allowed it and went on to win a Volcanic Island that day.
I think I lean more towards the "nice player" attitude so during tournaments I sometimes have to force myself to play to win.
Btw I constantly reminded my opponents of the Magus of the Tabernacle I had even after spectators told me that the creatures would just die if the opponent forgot.

[sammiel]

Eh, I try to be an asshole but more often than not I'm pretty honest. at a Kami block PTQ, was playing a white weenie mirror match, had a guy who had taken an extra hit from my pale curtain and I corrected his life total for him. The guy was absolutely floored.

[C.P.]

I'm a nice player when I'm in my local tourney or one of my own tourneys. If I'm at bigger, larger tourney that is more than an hour away, I don't let things go.

[Phantom]

I think it's all cool with me, as long as you're having fun. I enjoy a more laid back style of play, but have no idea where to draw the line on take backs, mistakes, etc. so I tend to take my queue from the opponent.

That said, I actually enjoy the super tight environment of a tourney, I just wish I had a better grasp on all the rules (on an off topic point, is there a brief or easy to read essay or article that will give me a better grasp on timing rules and what have you, or no?).

[Citrus-God]

At local tournaments, I dont seem to mind. At bigger tournaments, I think playing to win is the right answer there, for me.

[C.P.]

(on an off topic point, is there a brief or easy to read essay or article that will give me a better grasp on timing rules and what have you, or no?).

I think you have to go through 100+ pages of comprehensive ruling to figure it out, which I gave up in my 72th page or something. I'd rather read textbook. But then, I am attempting to be a judge, so I'll have to read it again...:rolleyes:

EDIT: or, Floor rule, rather. In any ways, I don't think there is an article about that. I'd like to read it, too.

[MattH]

My niceness is a function of many things, including but not limited to: what's riding on the outcome, and the experience level of my opponent.

[frogboy]

Eh, I try to be an asshole but more often than not I'm pretty honest. at a Kami block PTQ, was playing a white weenie mirror match, had a guy who had taken an extra hit from my pale curtain and I corrected his life total for him. The guy was absolutely floored.

Dude, not doing this is cheating.

At FNM/similar events I let a lot of stuff slide or allow takebacks if they misunderstand a card. If they walk into an onboard trick they're SOL, but if they want to play another land or skip a step or forget an upkeep I'm usually okay with it.

At PTQs and the like I make folks toe the line. I mean, I don't actively try to rules lawyer people, but I'm certainly not going to let them take back their mistakes.


That said, I actually enjoy the super tight environment of a tourney, I just wish I had a better grasp on all the rules (on an off topic point, is there a brief or easy to read essay or article that will give me a better grasp on timing rules and what have you, or no?).

I don't quite get the question; what are you unclear about?

[Samshire]

I'm the kind of player who makes those mistakes :cry:

[Di]

im a damn good legacy palyer. im also very drunk.

[Tacosnape]

I'm the kind that intentionally goes 0-2, drops, then entertains your bored girlfriend for several hours while you focus on making top 8.

[Samshire]

I'm the kind that intentionally goes 0-2, drops, then entertains your bored girlfriend for several hours while you focus on making top 8.

that's really nice of you!

[C.P.]

I'm the kind that intentionally goes 0-2, drops, then entertains your bored girlfriend for several hours while you focus on making top 8.

I made sure my ex-girlfriend does not come with me because I know she will whine about how I don't teach her the game, then refuse to understand anything more complex than one land per each turn.

[Pinder]

How nice I am to people is directly proportional to how competitive the tournament is, and what sort of prizes I'm playing for. At the local $3.50 tourney where all of the prizes are boosters, I typically let people take back forgetting to pay for Grunt if they remember right away, or even remind them if they move straight into their draw. Typically my opponent only gets 1 though, before I start enforcing things. One example is this las Friday when I was playing Friggorid (old school, not the new NarcoBridge stuff because I didn't have the cards), and I played a Therapy fist turn. My opp asked me what I was naming and I reminded him that I name on resolution, so once I named something he couldn't counter it. He didn't counter it either way, but later in the game I played another Therapy, and he said 'naming?', to which I replied 'Swords to Plowshares'. He tried Swordsing my Ashen Ghoul in response. I told him he couldn't do that, and he ended up discarding the StP because I wouldn't let him take it back. I think this is fair, because he should have known already because I explained it once already.

It also depends on what sort of impact the mistake had on the game. If you made a mistake that would cause you to lose the game, I generally don't let you take it back because not doing so causes me to win the game. One example, there was a kid at the local tourney, where I'm usually pretty lenient, playing ProsBloom (wtf, I know). While he was comboing off, he accidentally removed his Drain Life from the game for mana. After he had a ton of mana, and looked to his hand for the kill, he realized what he had done. He asked me if he could take it back and switch the Drain Life for some blank in his hand.

I of course said 'No.'

I am especially lenient when it comes to playing with foreign cards, as well, even to the point of asking my opponent if they know what a particular card does the first time I play it. Like I said, though, after that they're on their own.

At PTQ level events and other upper level tourneys, though, I usually give my opponent no slack whatsoever.

[BeeblesofLife]

Oh come on Pinder, do you really need to ask?
When it comes to very new, newer players,and team members, I am very nice and will let them take mistakes back. But with people who KNOW what they are doing.
I AM THE BIGGEST ASSHOLE IN THE WORLD!!! I hate it when people act like they know every aspect of them game and continualy try and take back mistakes. If I make a mistake I honestly don't expect people to let me take it back. But meh, I guess it does come down to the moment and how much I like the person or not.

[Tacosnape]

I made sure my ex-girlfriend does not come with me because I know she will whine about how I don't teach her the game, then refuse to understand anything more complex than one land per each turn.

Dude. This is every girl who has ever dated a magic player. Seriously.

Although my last ex was the exception to the rule and really cool. She actually learned to play Madness-Survival and played it pretty damn well.

[Phantom]

I don't quite get the question; what are you unclear about?

Nothing in particular. I would probably call it "timing". I think I understand the basics of the stack and all (I play online and rarely have problems. I usually just take the opponents call as fact if something complicated arises) I'm just unclear on things like what can and cannot go on the stack, when priority passes, sacrificing has always thrown me for a loop, just a bunch of things like that. I don't suppose there is anything simpler than the rule book to wade through, is there?

[C.P.]

Dude. This is every girl who has ever dated a magic player. Seriously.

Although my last ex was the exception to the rule and really cool. She actually learned to play Madness-Survival and played it pretty damn well.

Dunno, my little sister in Gr. 11 thinks Ib Halfheart is Cutest thing Evah and Keeps a copy in her wallet. She wants a foil one now. Anyone have a foil Ib?

EDIT: Also, she read Ice Age rulebook and and know how game works pre-6th. I did not teach her how to play anything other than Red, though.

[Tacosnape]

Dunno, my little sister in Gr. 11 thinks Ib Halfheart is Cutest thing Evah and Keeps a copy in her wallet. She wants a foil one now. Anyone have a foil Ib?

...What'll she give me for it? :cool:

[C.P.]

...What'll she give me for it? :cool:

Not anything relevant. Evah. Unless you are Sephiroth or Kefka. :wink:

[ninjabear]

I think that it depends. I think that you have to punish people who really don't take care about what's going on on the table and people who don't pay attention to what you are doing. If someone forgets about an upkeep, many times I will allow them to pay. If someone taps a land and then retracts, normally I will allow them to pay with some other mana.

But if someone does the ravager trick, I will punish them with my mighty jitte. Because they should know better than that. Or if someone does the Leyline of the Void trick, I will as well. Normally I will point out to the opponent, when I put Leyline of the Void in play, that abilities that go whenever a card goes to the graveyard will not trigger, and point him out that Disciples of the Vault and Modular will not work as expected. Only as a reminder. I think it's nice in case he didn't think about that interaction. But I will remind that only once, and if he fails I will not allow him to take back.

Anyway, I'm usually the one making those embarrassing mistakes :D And I like being punished from them, to remind me to be more strict!

[mikekelley]

It really depends on the character of my opponent. If he sits down and is warm and happy to be there, I'll be nice. If he is a douche bag, I will be a douche bag in return, that's all. No matter what the situation/tournament is I play to have fun, not to be a prick hellbent on winning some cardboard. If I win, I win, if not, it was probably a mistake I made and I'm okay with that, there isn't that much on the line.

But like I said, if my opponent is inconsiderate or not really at all talkative/receptive, or is doing something like wearing headphones during the match, or answers their cellphone, you bet I'll be a rules lawyer to them.

I'm like this because I know how much it sucks to forget to pay echo and then draw the card and make an honest mistake, I also know what it's like to have a douchey oppponent reach across the table and put my own cards into my grave for me when I make that mistake. It just comes down to what I think of you, I guess.

[thulnanth]

Hello all,

My first post here, although I've been reading these boards for about 2 years now - you guys are great :cool:

This issue hits close to home for me, as it is what drove me out of playing MtG in the first place; the last time I played an actual game was the Onslaught Prerelease!! I am nice to a fault - I sit down to play cards to relax and enjoy myself, not to "conquer all". This was fine when I was sitting around the kitchen table with friends, or down at the local gaming store in the afternoon. Since I usually did pretty good, my buddies convinced me to start going to tournaments - Prereleases, PTQ's, large Limited events, etc.

Big mistake. I could not believe what jerks most of the players out there were. This is BY FAR the biggest thing that keeps most casual players from getting more involved in the MtG community at large. I realize that I'm quite a bit older than the typical player (started this crazy habit back with Unlimited - LOL) and as such may see things a little different than most, but the attitude of most players I met out there was terrible. To be fair, there were some very nice people, and I can understand the desire to win (especially if you travelled a long way or paid a lot of $$). That being said, I just didn't have any fun and thus quit going. I've gotten back into the collecting end as of late and I love the new Legacy format - I'm even tempted to get out and play an actual game.

I enjoy these boards and the passions you all bring (big kudos to Volt and Pinder and all you Meathooks lovers out there :smile: ). Thanks for sharing your love of the game with me!!!

Take it easy,
Jared

[Adan]

Of course the tournament size plays a role how kind I am to my opponents.

If a opponent attacks into 2 Mishra's Factories on board or into a Tarmogoyf it's his fault, especially when I told him that Tarmogoyf is 5/6 and not 4/5 5 seconds before the attack.

But hell, if I'm losing to a guy which obviously has NO IDEA OF THAT FUCKING FORMAT I usually go berzerk. Or when I draw SHIT like against wastedlife the round before xD

But independant from magic, I'm a pretty nice guy! RLY!!! ^^

But on small tournaments I'm also looking against whom i play. If I see that my opponent plays unsure, I sometimes also give him suggestions afterwards. Sometimes during play. I also look what others do when I'm finished.

But on big event where also judges poke aroung I have to keep my mouth shut. But if I'm watching a player who tries to Stifle the "Flashback" from cabal Therapy....that's really NOT GOOD for my blood pressure.

Damn, 2 month's ago my rating was 1815, but now it's sinking like the Titanic.
That's the disadvantage when playing on small tournaments.
You win against one, gain 4 poins, but if you lose, oh damn, you will lose like 14-16 points.

But well, play against me and then tell me wether if I'm skilled or not...I don't want to say anything about my skill, it's neither good nor bad IMO.

[tivadar]

It was interesting, I once had a guy criticizing me for writing down cards in his deck during a match we were playing saying it was "highly discouraged by DCI and probably illegal". I run meddling mage, and I need to remember card names. Sure, I could call a judge every time, but why? He was basically being a dick.

One thing I do NOT do is write down deck info before the Tourney starts. In fact, I'm pretty sure this is technically illegal because you're not supposed to come in with any outside information written down. This doesn't mean I won't wander the tables and remember what people are playing...

Don't get me wrong, I think there's a correct balance here, at least for me. I'll definitely punish people for not knowing how to play their own cards or forgetting about them (Grunt's a prime example), but I make very sure they understand my cards when they come into play. I want a fair game as well. I may not be obligated to tell them what my Tabernacle does (they should ask), but I want them to know and I will make sure they understand it, and then if they forget, it's no one's fault but their own.

I also will not let someone make an illegal play and then call a judge. If they're about to do it/do it, I simply let them take it back. Typically this gives me more info about their deck anyways. I've yet to find a situation where the illegal play hurt me more than them anyways. Even casting terror on my untargettable, sure, put it back in your hand, you don't have to target your own creature with it instead... MAYBE in the T8 of a big tourney, but probably even not then.

I also had a guy once play Gemstone Mine on me (which reads "When Gemstone Mine comes into play, put three mining counters on it." but is apparently ruled "Gemstone mine comes into play with three mining counters on it."). As he played it, I asked if that was the card's official ruling (I honestly didn't know) and he said yes. I stifled it and he got no mana. I really do consider it your responsibility to know what your own cards do. This can be especially true with things like Decree of Justice, where people typically tap the mana ahead of time rather than waiting for the trigger to resolve. Ya know what, that's quite a bit of manaburn you'll be taking there...

Yeah, this is somewhat dependant on the level of the tourney, but not as much as one may think. I generally stick to the motto "know how to play your own cards, and I'll tell you how mine work".

[Cait_Sith]

To be fair on the Gemstone, when it was printed you didn't get a response to triggered abilities like that (CiP abilities). Under the newer rules, you do, so it Gemstone mine was errata'd to have a replacement effect instead.

[steffri666]

I have to say that I'm more on the "nice guy" side. I always have to remind myself in tournaments to not let people take back big mistakes on their part. For example I once let a Survival player take back a played BoP (the last card in his hand) afzer he realised Oh Survival is quite strong without a Creature to discard. Of course I lost that game.
Now I don't let them take back mistakes like that. I make quite a lot of mistakes and I never expect them to let me take it back. On top of that I think that you should know your cards and what they do. So for example like playing 2 of the same Legendary Creature is bad... happened to me at the source tournament.

[Maveric78f]

In every tournament, I am a bitch. Because the point of the game is to compete, even if the gamble is low. And I expect my opponents to do the same.

In every playtesting, I am the kindest man in the world. Because the point of the game is to playtest and my playtesting does not imply that my opponent is doing mistakes. And I expect my opponent to do the same with me, because I am testing my deck first of all and not my skills. On MWS, I'm even more comprehensive, as the game is not in real condition and it's much faster to draw before upkeep.

[Ewokslayer]

Even casting terror on my untargettable, sure, put it back in your hand, you don't have to target your own creature with it instead... MAYBE in the T8 of a big tourney, but probably even not then.
Making them put the Terror back in their hand is the only legal action. Making them target there own creature is illegal.



This can be especially true with things like Decree of Justice, where people typically tap the mana ahead of time rather than waiting for the trigger to resolve. Ya know what, that's quite a bit of manaburn you'll be taking there...

Judges now let people untap the mana from that instead of manaburning.
They call it a "change in philosophy". I personally call it bullshit.

[ForceofWill]

Eric I can tell your talking about me with the grunt trigger. You have to remember it was top 8 and that it was your card you forgot. Most of the time I let my opponents take back things all day long especially if we are friends..

[zulander]

It depends. If I'm playing in a large tournament I won't let people take things back. If it's a local $5 tournament I let them take back one mistake.

[Nightmare]

When I play Scattegories, rather than writing down the first thing I think of, I try to reason what others will say, and work away from it.

I don't lose at the game "Fluxx" because I understand the principles of card advantage.

I got in a fight with my roommate while we were playing Monopoly with our girlfriends last night. He said he had half price rent on all my property, I assured him that it was only on the property I owned when the deal was made. I ended up "System: Player Lost"-ing them over it, because I was so upset.

What kind of player do you think I am?

[tivadar]

Eric I can tell your talking about me with the grunt trigger. You have to remember it was top 8 and that it was your card you forgot. Most of the time I let my opponents take back things all day long especially if we are friends..

Actually not at all. I forget Grunt all the time. I honestly had no problem with you calling me on it, it was my play mistake. That and I was in a bit of a rush that match because I wanted to get home for my sister's bday so it's probably a good thing you won anyways :-P.

Honestly, I'm not even 100% sure that was the first time that day I forgot Grunt. When I got paired against you in T8 I was actually fairly happy, because it meant I could lose and still have a good player/teammate go on. I'm saying that I wouldn't let people take back grunt either, even in earlier rounds in that tournament. You did the right thing in my opinion.

[sammiel]

Dude, not doing this is cheating.

yeah, I know. Maybe it wasn't the best example, but I was surprised at how surprised the guy was.

[Nihil Credo]

In every tournament, I am a bitch. Because the point of the game is to compete, even if the gamble is low. And I expect my opponents to do the same.

In every playtesting, I am the kindest man in the world. Because the point of the game is to playtest and my playtesting does not imply that my opponent is doing mistakes. And I expect my opponent to do the same with me, because I am testing my deck first of all and not my skills. On MWS, I'm even more comprehensive, as the game is not in real condition and it's much faster to draw before upkeep.
Same. However, I strive to be a pleasant opponent even while being unforgiving on the rules.

[greenmage]

Depends.

If I'm playing against kids or obvious n00bs, I let them take things back.

If I'm playing against more experienced players, I'm unforgiving.

[CynicalSquirrel]

I'm definitely in the nice group. For one thing I'm a terrible player so I don't win much, but I also hate those players who take magic seriously and feel the need to talk shit when they play. Honestly, not to offend anyone here, but talking shit while playing a card game is about as pathetic and stupid as it gets, and I really just pity anyone I see doing that. I mean, get a life.

[tivadar]

I'm definitely in the nice group. For one thing I'm a terrible player so I don't win much, but I also hate those players who take magic seriously and feel the need to talk shit when they play. Honestly, not to offend anyone here, but talking shit while playing a card game is about as pathetic and stupid as it gets, and I really just pity anyone I see doing that. I mean, get a life.

Please note, I never talk shit (or very rarely, most people who know me can testify to this). If anything, I generally play down my ability/deck more than anything else. However, you don't need to talk shit to be a rules stickler.

I will say that, no matter what, most people who play me get along fairly well with me and its rare I have an issue with anyone after the game. If they make a mistake, I may call them on it, but I don't rub it in their face.

But yes, you are right, there are those types of people too...

[Pinder]

I don't lose at the game "Fluxx" because I understand the principles of card advantage.


This totally reminds me of a game of Fluxx I played once. we had the 'Inflation' (formerly 'X=X+1'), Draw 5, Play All, and No-Hand Bonus rule cards out (there were others, but they were irrelevant to the story). For those of you who don't play (even though you should), this meant that every turn, each player was drawing 10 cards, and playing all of them. During my turn, I drew my 10, and played Jackpot (a draw3) to draw 4 cards. I dropped two keepers for a goal which I knew hadn't hit the table yet (checked the discard pile), and played 'Discard and Draw' (think Tolarian Winds). I discarded 12 cards and drew 12 more, then played 'Let's Do that Again' (think Sins of the Past), and replayed the 'Discard and Draw', drawing into 11 more cards. Ironically, I still didn't have the goal in question at this point. So I dropped everything in my hand, and played 'Take Another Turn'. On my second turn, I drew 10 more cards (all but the bottom 3), and much to my chagrin found that the goal I needed wasn't in them. Turns out it was the second card form the bottom. I ended up having to play a goal which caused my friend to win the game that turn (because I had to play everything in my hand each turn).

Oh well, either way, it seriously felt like I was comboing off with Solidarity. For those interested, I ended up drawing a total of 47 cards between the 2 turns. Come to think of it, I might have played an 'Empty the Trash' (shuffle dicard back into deck) in there somewhere as well. I can't remember.



What kind of player do you think I am?

Lonely?

[Maveric78f]

When
I say that I'm a bitch in every tournament, I don't mean that I'm trying to seduce my opponent of to trashtalk. I am just strict on the game.

[ForceofWill]

There is a difference between taking the game seriously and talking shit. During a game if I talk shit I'm usually joking but I take the game very seriously while still allowing certain players to take back certain things.

[Finn]

I let my opponent take back everything, I mean everything. In fact, I routinely point out play errors to my opponents in (usually fruitless) hopes that they will make the better play. I have never considered this a case of me bing nice. And it is not. I have no interest in being a n00bpwner. I only want decent opponents to get results for my incessant tests.

EDIT: This is not really the case when I play players from Team Bean. They are too fun to harp on for the rare play mistake.

[Tacosnape]

I don't lose at the game "Fluxx" because I understand the principles of card advantage.

I call bullshit. Nobody can "Not lose" in a highly-random multiplayer game where it's incredibly easy for the game to end before you get a turn. You can't exactly Force of Will The Toaster. You can win more than everybody else, though.

EDIT: Funny story about Fluxx. I once lost a game that went on for about 15 minutes without me getting a turn due to the "Reverse Turn" card being played before my turn three times, causing everybody to get multiple turns to my 0. I promptly grabbed the Reverse Turn card the third time it was played, ripped it in half, and ate it.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

For me, it is the opponent.
If he is a "winner" i am!

If my opponent is a nice one i am a nice guye...

But i must say sometimes i like to play magic tottaly hard and merciless, that is very interesting for me and i do it also in local tornaments...

[Caboose]

If my opponent is playing an established decktype and is familiar with the format, I will treat him with respect and probably even become friends with him. Half of the matches I played at the GP, my opponent mentioned he would come find me later to see how I was doing.

However, I will often be a condescending prick to my opponent if he has established himself as a bitch. Some examples of people I will talk shit to at a tournament include:

1) A rogue decker who claims "you netdeckers will never understand my genius" (way more common than you think).
2) Middle schoolers who claim I got lucky when I demolished their shitty deck that has Rav duals instead of real ones.
3) People like Finn, Peter_Rotten, et al.

[Nightmare]

I call bullshit. Nobody can "Not lose" in a highly-random multiplayer game where it's incredibly easy for the game to end before you get a turn. You can't exactly Force of Will The Toaster. You can win more than everybody else, though.

EDIT: Funny story about Fluxx. I once lost a game that went on for about 15 minutes without me getting a turn due to the "Reverse Turn" card being played before my turn three times, causing everybody to get multiple turns to my 0. I promptly grabbed the Reverse Turn card the third time it was played, ripped it in half, and ate it.I suppose you're right on this, partially. You're correct that sometimes you can't prevent yourself from losing, but you can damn sure win more than anyone else. I win more games from the "Ten or more cards in hand" than any other goal, and most of the time, my opponents' hands are pretty much empty. Also, how good is "Brain, No TV?"

[Belgareth]

Not a lot u can do against a starting hand of , play all , all you need is love and love , though is there ;)
I agree the card advantage aspect of mtg does help win at fluxx.

[Nightmare]

Not a lot u can do against a starting hand of , play all , all you need is love and love , though is there ;)
I agree the card advantage aspect of mtg does help win at fluxx.Or $ no taxes, $; or Brain No TV, Brain, etc. It's like Island, Petal, Flash-Hulk, Daze, Pact, Pact. I hear it's nice in Christmastown this time of year.

[DarkAkuma]

For me, it all depends on game position. I'm not going to let someone go back and fix their mistakes if it mean giveing them or letting them retain game postition. After all, this game is part skill and you need to capitalize on mistakes, no matter how big or small, to win. Why should I let them beat me by takeing back the mistake I was waiting several turns for them to make?

Now if game position isnt effected by a mistake, i'll useualy point it out. Cause after all, I always want to get better as a magic player, and to do that I need to play againt people of simular skill level, and the best way for them to get better is to learn from their mistakes. Thats how I learn.

So I guess im another one that chooses "both". I am here to win the prize, but I will point out mistakes and hope others do the same for me.

[Mijorre]

I am the kind of player that runs solidarity because he likes to say "in response".
I am the kind of guy who gives away things that have been in the trade map for more than a month to new people.
I am the idiot who actually tells people how to come back from a bad board during tourneys.
I am a Superhero Hamster.
Who cares if I go 0-6 on the day, I play for fun anyway.

[Atwa]

Normally I am very nice to my opponents. I alsways comment on playmistakes they make, and normally I let them take back their plays, so they can make more optimal decisions.

There are a couple of exceptions on this, however.

- People who are acting superiour over me (no matter if I'm winning or losing), can expect me to be a rules-bitch.
- At a tournament with high stackes (Legacy Nationals) I'll be more strickt, as long as I have a change of a high finish. I'll try to help them by pointing out their mistakes after a game however, so they can try to do better games 2/3.

Other than that, I normally try to help people to optimise their plays. I rather lose to someone who's playing better than me, than win over someone who's making all sorts of mistakes.