Masters Edition [Archive]

DuxDucis

07-25-2007, 07:15 PM

What do you guys make of the annoucement of Master Edition for Magic Online?

It probably has something to do with Legacy occuring at Worlds, although I'm not to sure.

Do you think this will bring the "Classic" format for Magic Online closer to real life Legacy?

Just in case anyone isn't paying attention Force of Will, Juzam Djinn, and Armageddon have been spoiled so far.

Official Masters Edition announcement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=magic/magiconline/article072007a)

URABAHN

07-25-2007, 07:28 PM

The online Classic format will never be anything like Legacy. For starters, it doesn't even have the same B&R list. Of the 3 spoiled cards, 1, (maybe 1.5 for 'geddon) is actually played in Legacy. Masters Edition is supposed to be ~130 cards, right? If one out of every 3 cards is actually played in Legacy, I think it's going to suck. Also, if they don't "print" Duals, it's going to suck.

DrJones

07-25-2007, 08:01 PM

I think it's a very good deal if you enjoy spending money on virtual goods (which I don't). I strongly disagree with the above poster about Juzam Djinn and Armageddon. These cards are highly tradable, and I bet that even the most useless Masters Edition rare will be better than the average rare you could pull from a current booster.

Tacosnape

07-25-2007, 09:19 PM

They should do this IRL with Legacy and just charge like $5-6 a pack.

Cabal-kun

07-25-2007, 09:39 PM

They should do this IRL with Legacy and just charge like $5-6 a pack.

It would give newer players a chance to get older staples.

calosso

07-25-2007, 09:50 PM

It would give newer players a chance to get older staples.

I'm pretty sure that was a joke, since cards like Juzamm djinn and force of will is in this set.

Cabal-kun

07-25-2007, 10:42 PM

I'm pretty sure that was a joke, since cards like Juzamm djinn and force of will is in this set.

It depends on what's in the set. I'm sure FoW is considered a staple. I'm also sure that it isn't being printed. As it has been argued, demand will increase over time, as will price as the supply decreases. Sure, you could always borrow or buy it off someone, but the cost will still rise. The same goes for duals, or any other card. A reprint would affect this, depening on how many cards are selected for reprint and then printed.

Reprinting Legacy cards and packaging them in their own packs does not seem optimal. Placing one in new set, say one reprint in each Lorwyn booster, seems like a better idea.

Phantom

07-26-2007, 12:21 AM

Is there some reasoning behind NOT reprinting all the old cards online and letting people play Legacy and Vintage on there?

Zherbus

07-26-2007, 02:31 AM

Is there some reasoning behind NOT reprinting all the old cards online and letting people play Legacy and Vintage on there?

Nope. I think if WotC continues showing Legacy the level of support they have been (GP's and Worlds), then they'll definitely want to make MTGO eventually relevant to the format.

And for the uninformed:

Masters Edition will have 195 cards (15 basics from A/B/U).

Spoiled so far are: Force of Will, Juzam, Armageddon, Lightning Bolt, Pheldagriff, and the 15 basic lands.

MTGO Classic as is has the Extended card pool, plus Mirage and Visions. Promo-type stuff include these notables: Morphling, Kjeldoran Outpost, Swords to Plowshares, Gorilla Shaman, Ashen Ghoul, Brainstorm.

Masters Edition is entirely pre-Mirage cards. We get that Sept. 10th.

Weatherlight comes in December. Tempest Block follows, then Urza's, then Masques. It's suspected that there will be another Masters Edition set before this is complete.

I would say the likelyhood of this mirroring Legacy is non-existant for a few years at the least. However, right now there are a lot of similiarities. Sometimes you can just take a Legacy deck and put it directly into MTGO Classic after brief modifications for the Classic metagame.

Archetypes showing up include:

Flash
Goblins
Affinity
Boros variants
Landstill
Fish variants
CounterTop variants
Tendrils
Belcher

And other random Extended decks that wander in (Rock, Aggro-Loam, Tron, etc). Flash keeps everything "in check" (meaning people who show up with Affinity and Goblins just lose to it) but is no more dominant than CounterTop or Fish right now, since Flash lacks Force of Will.

EDIT:

As a point of interest, I looked through some of your top 10 Legacy cards. There were only two that are missing from the Classic card pool:

Goblin Lackey, which has a huge effect on Goblins.
Dual Lands, which is replaced by that shock-duals.

TheInfamousBearAssassin

07-26-2007, 02:34 AM

They should do this IRL with Legacy and just charge like $5-6 a pack.

Yes.

Tacosnape

07-26-2007, 02:59 AM

Speaking of, know what would look kickass? Dual Lands in the new Nonbasic Land face.

EDIT: Or God help us, Foil Dual Lands.

LGD

07-26-2007, 03:08 AM

Speaking of, know what would look kickass? Dual Lands in the new Nonbasic Land face.

EDIT: Or God help us, Foil Dual Lands.

Given the nature of the reprint policy if they actually decided to do a paper "Masters Edition" for Legacy or Vintage they'd pretty much have to print the Dual's as foils, since thats the only way they could do it without breaking their "promise".

Edit: I'd be up for some textless foil duals if they commissioned good art though.

Machinus

07-26-2007, 03:09 AM

Wow, you like the new card face? I wonder if your water is contaminated just like the water in Seattle...

TheInfamousBearAssassin

07-26-2007, 03:14 AM

I don't like the new card frame. I do like that the new card frame leaves more room for the art and makes the foils look better, though. I'd prefer a more spartan card frame that actually looked fantasy, though, although I've also advocated that they could do a different card frame for each block, similarly to how they had planned different card backs to each set, but without the issues of transparent card sleeves.

Pinder

07-26-2007, 03:18 AM

Wow, you like the new card face? I wonder if your water is contaminated just like the water in Seattle...

Hey, the water here is just fine. It's what I use to wash down the feel good candy that the happy lady brings me.

Edit: I'd be up for some textless foil duals if they commissioned good art though.

Yeah, because I'm sure everyone would love spending $70 on a single land.

LGD

07-26-2007, 04:30 AM

Yeah, because I'm sure everyone would love spending $70 on a single land.

Are you telling me that that landbase wouldn't give you $280-$560 dollars worth of happiness? Because you're wrong.

I exclusively play beat to shit white-bordered Unlimited and Revised duals personally.

URABAHN

07-26-2007, 07:24 AM

Spoiled so far are: Force of Will, Juzam, Armageddon, Lightning Bolt, Pheldagriff, and the 15 basic lands.

Hold me back, I want those basic lands. I'm so glad they're taking up 15 slots in the Masters Edition set. What a freaking rip-off.

Nihil Credo

07-26-2007, 08:47 AM

Is there some reasoning behind NOT reprinting all the old cards online and letting people play Legacy and Vintage on there?
Yes. Programming <i>all</i> the thousands of cards that came out before Invasion would take years. And debugging would take twice as much (the idea of making Shahrazahd work correctly on MTGO is hilarious).

Hence, they only print cards that will actually affect Classic. I sure hope they include dual lands, though. It may not be possible to reproduce Legacy on MTGO, but at least pros will be able to test many matchups.

Ewokslayer

07-26-2007, 08:52 AM

Hold me back, I want those basic lands. I'm so glad they're taking up 15 slots in the Masters Edition set. What a freaking rip-off.

The inclusion of basic land seems kinda WTF. Do Alpha/Beta virtual lands have any value over lands from any other virtual set?
I suppose the only real impact they will have over just having 14 card boosters would be you could get stuck with one of them if you time out in a draft.

Djinn

07-26-2007, 10:32 AM

Too bad they are only "printing" pre-mirage cards and they are not getting urza's block and tempest block goodies online.

Just my 2 cents.

APriestOfGix

07-26-2007, 10:48 AM

Is there some reasoning behind NOT reprinting all the old cards online and letting people play Legacy and Vintage on there?

YES!

You guys understand that if they do reprints they will have to be their own set...

Also there is a list of cards they promised to never reprint, so we gotta make sure cards arn't on there...

If they reprint cards will become less valuable, and Legacy cards are investments. They would have to be careful cause they want the new cards cheap, but the only ones $$$.

Something like a add on to 11th edition where they are all white bordered...

Edit: Found the link...

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=magic/products/ReprintPolicy

They are already breaching the agreement though...

Atwa

07-26-2007, 11:25 AM

Edit: Found the link...

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=magic/products/ReprintPolicy

They are already breaching the agreement though...

True, they have already once changed the polici to be able to reprint Clone (now that was a succes :)).

I would hate it if they should deceide to reprint the duals, since I'm still buying them and I would lose a lot of money on them, but I think it will be better for the format's health in the long term.

zulander

07-26-2007, 11:27 AM

Wait, so if you get a full set of Masters Edition online, can you have them send you a real set like they do with other sets?

Ewokslayer

07-26-2007, 11:37 AM

Wait, so if you get a full set of Masters Edition online, can you have them send you a real set like they do with other sets?

No they are non-redeemable.

YES!

You guys understand that if they do reprints they will have to be their own set...

Also there is a list of cards they promised to never reprint, so we gotta make sure cards arn't on there...

If they reprint cards will become less valuable, and Legacy cards are investments. They would have to be careful cause they want the new cards cheap, but the only ones $$$.

Something like a add on to 11th edition where they are all white bordered...

Edit: Found the link...

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x.../ReprintPolicy

They are already breaching the agreement though...
Why would "printing" virtual cards affect the value of the real cards?
If anything Legacy available on Magic online would increase the value of their real counterparts as people try to play their virtual decks in real life.

TheInfamousBearAssassin

07-26-2007, 11:40 AM

I would hate for my Bartel Runeaxe to lose value.

I don't think most people care about the reserved list, which means sooner or later Wizards will break it. They have to, anyway, to keep Legacy affordable. You make look at it as your property increasing in value, but from the other side it looks like Dual lands becoming burdensomely expensive.

DJ Catchem

07-26-2007, 11:59 AM

Too bad they are only "printing" pre-mirage cards and they are not getting urza's block and tempest block goodies online.

Just my 2 cents.

Tempest and Urza block cards are not included in the Master's Edition because they've already been announced as part of the effort to 'back-print' those sets in their entirety. We have Mirage and Visions, Weatherlight is due this year, and they'll continue backwards from there.

YES!

You guys understand that if they do reprints they will have to be their own set...

Also there is a list of cards they promised to never reprint, so we gotta make sure cards arn't on there...

If they reprint cards will become less valuable, and Legacy cards are investments. They would have to be careful cause they want the new cards cheap, but the only ones $$$.

Something like a add on to 11th edition where they are all white bordered...

Edit: Found the link...

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x.../ReprintPolicy

They are already breaching the agreement though...

Ewok has it correct. Printing cards Online has no bearing on the paper Reserve list at all, so cards printed online aren't bound by that agreement.

--->DJ

Ewokslayer

07-26-2007, 12:03 PM

I would hate for my Bartel Runeaxe to lose value.

Starcity is selling them for 7.50 !

Atwa

07-26-2007, 12:04 PM

Ewok has it correct. Printing cards Online has no bearing on the paper Reserve list at all, so cards printed online aren't bound by that agreement.

--->DJ

That's true, but that post was a respons to someone who said Wizards should also release a paperversion of the masters set.

Ewokslayer

07-26-2007, 12:07 PM

That's true, but that post was a respons to someone who said Wizards should also release a paperversion of the masters set.

Then he was responding to a post that he wasn't quoting.

emidln

07-26-2007, 12:30 PM

Are you telling me that that landbase wouldn't give you $280-$560 dollars worth of happiness? Because you're wrong.

My landbase already does. Maybe you should play flashier decks.

DJ Catchem

07-26-2007, 12:43 PM

That's true, but that post was a respons to someone who said Wizards should also release a paperversion of the masters set.

Again, thanks Ewok. That post I was quoting was in reference to this:

"Is there some reasoning behind NOT reprinting all the old cards online and letting people play Legacy and Vintage on there?"

Frankly, there's every indication that things are headed in the direction of Online Legacy in the long run. I can't see any tangible effect on paper cards, and it will only serve to boost the Legacy player base.

Whether or not they decide to go all the way into vintage territory is another story, though.

--->DJ

Pinder

07-26-2007, 03:58 PM

Actually, why doesn't Wizards just make a seperate section of MTGO, with access to all cards (no purchase neccessary), and no rules enforcement? Of course, you couldn't enter any actual events, and it would be just for testing, but at least you could play Legacy and Vintage there (and the cards would have pictures!). And I suppose that if they started with that, they could concievably add some rules enforcement later if they wanted to. I agree that it would be hell to program all the cards, but it wouldn't be too bad to just add them, would it? And every card would have the updated Oracle wording, too.

Basically, why doesn't MTGO just make a first party version of MWS?

LGD

07-26-2007, 04:05 PM

My landbase already does. Maybe you should play flashier decks.

So does mine. Even a totally non-pimped Thresh landbase costs at least $300ish. I was merely referring to the cost of 4-8 textless foil duals which would be pretty standard for a lot of decks, and was ignoring the extra cost of fetches and the like. This is paltry compared to the landbases of certain Vintage decks. Frankly this price isn't really too burdonsomely expensive for a serious tournament player (look at the landbases in standard right now), but it damn well would be if there were actual legacy events that people needed the lands for. Frankly I think that some sort of way to get new copies of old duals would be nothing but good if it were accompanied by enough tournament support to create demand that wasn't driven almost entirely by nostalgia, an impulse to collect, or a relatively small group of serious legacy players (who have very few places to play). Not everything needs to be reprinted, but the landbase and a few staples like FoW would go a long way towards making the format widely playable, which to me is far more important than knowing that my cards retained an extra $5-10 in value (at worst).

thulnanth

07-27-2007, 12:09 AM

I am curious at what price point you all consider cards "too expensive?" I vividly remember back in the day when Moxen were pushing $50 and players claimed if they got any higher it would kill the game and Wizards would have to reprint them. Didn't happen. Shortages of certain cards seems like the reason, yet Tarmogoyf is going for $20+ ($40 or more foil), and that card is still in print. By your same logic, should Wizards sell "Tarmogoyf only" packs for $1.99 so everyone can get one?

The problem with the arguement that individual cards are priced too high and thus act as a barrier to entry is that at ANY price level you will have some barrier of entry to some people. The question then becomes where do we set the bar? Despite arguements to the contrary, there is no shortage of Duals (or even Moxen for that matter) - attendance levels at any MtG event have never come close to hitting levels that would exhaust card supply. Reprinting cards would certainly drive down cost on the secondary market, but would it increase attendance enough for Wizards to justify a print run / sale? What about collectors? I know tournament players deride them, but they are a big part of Wizards sales.

Just asking...

Take it easy,
Jared

APriestOfGix

07-27-2007, 01:50 AM