About Lotus Vale, Scorched Ruins and Mox Diamond

[Windux]

You know, some people here argue about those cards since Flash has been errata'ed.
Now, we have the OFFICIAL answer:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/askwizards/0807

So please stop spaming in every thread. Just make a post in this thread like "Jeah, right!" or "Oh, I was wrong" and then stop it ;P

[Fred Bear]

To me, though, this raises one monster question...

Why was Phyrexian Dreadnought's errata removed?

With the errata, Dreadnought worked just like it did under pre-sixth rules which is Wizards' argument to not change any of the other cards. So why is it ok to call this 'power-level' errata which must be removed and the others 'functional' errata which must stay?

Now, I understand that the 'questionable' cards all have an 'activated ability', but under pre-sixth rules, without paying Dreadnought's cost - he could never have attacked. It just seems odd to me that they are willing to 'break' some cards but not others.

Fred Bear...

[kicks_422]

I guess they thought that a 12/12 beater for cheap was alright, while more fast mana resembling shades of Black Lotus was broken.

Frankly, I agree with them.

[DrJones]

Phyrexian Dougnut had "power errata" because it was errataed with the sole purpose to nerf it. (I was playing Magic at that time and I remember it)

Lotus Vale, had "functional errata" because it was updated with the upcome of sixth edition rules. (I also remember it)

Waylay is in the middle. Sixth Edition rules happened around Urza's Legacy, if I remember well (and I do, after consulting wikipedia, Urza's Legacy -> Feb, 1999, 6th edition -> apr, 1999), but Waylay didn't get its "functional errata" until people started abusing that awful, awful loophole (that shouldn't be there) that allows people to do things after the end of turn. So, in some way, they "nerfed" it, but they don't count it as "power level" errata because they say it was an oversight and should have been changed along the rest of cards.

As a side note, I think "substance" is stupid, that there shouldn't be a difference between "at end of turn" and "until end of turn", and that it would be better to reference the "cleanup step" until it's fixed.

[Windux]

At end of turn triggers at this time, "until eot" does not.
Substance is useful.

Just think about Mishras Factory:

"{1}: Until end of turn, Mishra's Factory becomes a 2/2 Assembly-Worker artifact creature. It's still a land. "

AND

"{1}: Mishra's Factory becomes a 2/2 Assembly-Worker artifact creature. It's still a land. At end of the turn, Mishra's Factory becomes a non-creature land."

At first, the second ruling would be difficult and at second: You could abuse that much better.

There is a reason why "until" and "at" EOT are different and they make sense.

[Barook]

I'm getting slowly pissed off now that Mox Diamond is still considered in the same class like the two lands - it's a friggin artifact!

If your Mox is countered, you'll also lose the land under the current wording.
It's also impossible to play the Mox "for free" to increase your storm count.

These are functional differences that need to be fixed.