PDA

View Full Version : [Deck] GAGOMY - GBR Zoo



zulander
08-26-2007, 05:50 PM
Enjoy.

6-09-07 - The Beginning.
On June 9th, 2007 I was to play the format that sparked the competitive Magic the Gathering player in me. It was Regionals that weekend and I decided to play my favorite type 2 decks of all time, The Rock. While it was well over four years since the original Rock deck was created I knew I wanted to go old school and hopefully have some success at the same time (yeah, right...) but most of all, I wanted to play The Rock, because that meant I would have fun (at least that's what I thought until I actually showed up). Needless to say I did horrible and dropped after a few rounds, however after much ponderation (yeah, I just said ponderation) I decided that day that the red splash would have been a better call for the meta game. This ponderation then shifted a bit and transferred over to 1.5, the format that I play most. Here's the first list I came up with along with the original thread I created. (http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6143)

7-29-07 - The Legitimacy.
After a couple of weeks worth of testing I decide to play GAGOMY at the 1.5 U.S Nationals Side Event Tournament. The report and list can be found here.
(http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6491)
8-26-07, 3:30pm - The Primer.
So I'm at work right now on a Sunday because of the new servers our Team has recently acquired, and I'm supposed to test out the applications once the servers go live (which was supposedly at 11 am, now it's almost 3:30 pm... yeah...). I've finally decided on the final list after the weekly 1.5 tournament we have at The Lucky Frog, so without further ado here it is.

GAGOMY (Gators, Apes, Goyfs OMY)
The Mana: 21
4 Wasteland
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Badlands
4 Bayou
1 Taiga

The Beats: 23
4 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Call of the Herd
4 Dark Confidant
4 Phryexian Negator
3 Umezawa's Jitte

The Disruption: 16
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Taurach
4 Seal of Fire
4 Lightning Bolt

The Sideboard: 15
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Extirpate
3 Pyroclasm
3 Krosan Grip

The card lobbying-
Wasteland - I've been told many times by many players that the card does not belong in this deck, however, the tournament and play testing games that I've played disagree with these people. But if I were to take them out I'd suggest bring in 2 Polluted Delta, 1 Blood Crypt, 1 Overgrown Tomb, or something of this fashion.

Kird Ape - While the deck has 8 burn spells that stop turn 1 I'd like to also play a creature on turn 1, especially a 2/3 creature with an irrelevant drawback. I've tested sarcomancy in this spot and that card seemed amazing on paper and horrible in actual game play. This deck isn't 1cc.dec.

Call of the Herd - This card is a beating versus control and aggro decks, and even aggro control decks too!! (I know, whoda thunkit right??). It's not as great agains combo however, but it can fill the board up nicely after a board sweeper. However I must inform you that using a powder keg set at 0 will kill him. Sure it'll make the judges and everyone else laugh at 3:30 am but it isn't a good play, trust me.

Hymn to Taurach - Accompanied by duress hymn is one of the most important cards in the combo match up, and it will occasionally help you steal game 1 before boarding in some more hate. The double black is hardly a problem and in the 100+ games I've played with the updated list I've only had a problem casting hymn once, and this isnít an exaggeration.

Seal of Fire > Chain Lightning - Why? Because I can cast a seal of fire on one turn and not have to have a red open on the latter turns. Sure you give your opponent information on what you're playing but if your opponent is playing around a seal of fire then you should be punishing them with a beater or discard. The instant usage of Seal is another factor of it's inclusion over chain lightning, especially against goblins or other decks that can go busted in a single turn.


8-27-07 5:00 pm Ė The match ups.
Weíll Iíve been at work since 11 am this Sunday morning and it doesnít look like Iíll be leaving for quite a while, so why not finish writing this primer with some match up percentages?


Threshold aka NQG
Recently it seems that every thresh deck has been splashing red, or both red and white. The match up percentages are based on the red splash.

Game 1: There are a couple of key things you must understand in this match up.
1. Donít expect to resolve Dark Confidant
2. Your Tarmogoyfs should beat theirs but donít always count on it.
3. Wasteland is a great way to beat them, use it whenever you can once you get a badlands/bayou in play.
So the first key is fairly simple right? Threshold hates it when people try to play this guy, especially if they see green lands because they know tarmogoyf should be coming up shortly.

The second key is also fairly simple, the red splash generally has 4 lightning bolts as burn and thatís usually it. You play lightning bolts along with seal of fire and jitte, so for the most part your tarmogoyfs should beat theirs up, most of the time. However, only rely on this plan if you actually get a jitte/seal to stick and donít rely on the bolts in your hand. Attacking with goyf and bolt in hand to kill theirs is wrong, unless you know they canít counter it.

The third point applies to the versions of thresh that splash a color (mostly red and/or white). Against the UG version keep your wastelands and use them for mana unless you know your opponent canít get green after a waste or youíre mana flooded.

Game 2/3: The boarding plan is fully dependent on which version they run, however I try to board in EE almost every time. Only play EE when you know itís safe, or when you must, otherwise protect it as it can hit a counterbalance and a couple of tarmogoyfs when bluffed correctly. The most gamebreaking EE is the one followed by a goyf of your own or a confidant.

This match up is around 50/50 prepoard, a bit better post. Expect them to be hard fought games as well, because competent thresh players hardly get rolled.

Goblins
Game 1: You have 12 turn 1 answers to lackey which help against their best hands, but ultimately the key cards here are Jitte/Tarmogoyf/Confidant.

Game 2/3: You bring in 3 pyroclasm from the board, and more often than not I usually board out 2 Negators and 1 Duress.

**Note: Something Anwar has helped me with in this match up is to only hymn when youíre under threat of a Ringleader which is when your opponent is at 3 mana or when there are 3 tokens on vial. Thanks a ton Anwar!

Out of the 20 dedicated testing games against the mono red version the records were 9-11 in goblins favor for game 1. Itís very winnable if you are able to draw some dedicated hate, but expect the worst from goblins, as they can generally top deck really well. Post board expect the %'s to be in your favor a bit more.

Cephalid Breakfast
Game 1: The cards relevant to stopping the actual combo are L.Bolt, Seal of Fire, Duress, Hymn, Jitte. There are eight dead cards against the deck, and they are the four call of the herd and the four kird apes. The disruption you pack in the deck is very relevant and the clocks you throw down put them on, well, a clock. If your opponent decides to go with the goyf plan then you play it as you would against threshold, but you must be very wary of them going off.

Game 2/3: I generally take out the 4 kird ape and 4 call of the herd and 1 Jitte. Bring in 3 Crypt and 3 extirpate and 3 EE (which you set at two). Post board theyíll bring in Abeyance and theyíll rarely try to go off without it. You have to disrupt their hand and get an early crypt/EE on the board and pressure them into finding Abeyance. However, if you have an extirpate in hand it might be better to not play EE/crypt so that they try to go off without abeyance. This trick doesnít usually work on more experienced breakfast players however.

I have not tested against the Ghoul version very much so I donít have the match ups right now unfortunately. But Iíd estimate it at 40-60 in their favor due to the counters and combo that they run in game 1. Game 2 should be better due to the fact that you can win the goyf war and the boarded in gy hate. Iíll try to test this match up more as I know the deck is seeing an increase of popularity.

Storm Combo/Ichorid
Game 1: You donít have too much of a shot game 1, maybe if youíre lucky 35% at best. In order for you to win you have to get multiple duress/hymns, or your opponent has to mull. These paths to victory are feasible, but do not occur often. Against Ichorid however you have a couple of more outs, sealing your confidants and things like this will help slow them down enough hopefully to get an active jitte, but itís still not that close.

Game 2/3: I side out 4 Call of the herd and bring in EE/crypt/extirpate depending on the build. Now with 17 cards that slow down combo you have a much better shot at beating them if you draw your boarded in cards.


Whew, finally after 7 hours Iím able to login at work to start testing the new servers which means fun time's over and I have to do some actual work. Iíll be making updates as often as I can and I certainly hope you have enjoyed reading the primer.

Good luck in your savage beatings, and may your opponents go down crying GAAAAAGOOOOMEEEEE!!!!

DragoFireheart
08-26-2007, 06:17 PM
I still prefer the Troll over the Herd ATM. Mostly because I simply do not have the herd, but also because I prefer the troll to the herd. Yes, the herd is card advantage VS counters, but your own EE will hit the Elephants VS Empty the Warrens and VS goblin tokens ala SGG. Nevermind the fact that the Troll can't be targeted by your opponents spells or abilities. You have disruption: you can keep that troll safe and once he hits the board he's a freaking pain in the ass to remove.

Throw a Jitte on the Troll and rock the town baby!

zulander
08-26-2007, 06:28 PM
Ok, so here's the breakdown on why I play Call over Troll.

1. Both are irrelevant against combo because they're a bit slow, however if your opponent doesn't have a fast hand call is 6 power on the board as opposed to trolls 3.

2. Against control your opponent has to have 2 counterpsells. Sure if you resolve troll he's a 3/2 with regen, but again if you can resolve call you'll have 6 power on the board.

3. Against goblins you have to have 1G open to make sure he doesn't trade, only problem is that goblins can deny mana via waste + port. Against goblins call doesn't trade, and if you have double green on the board you'll eventually get 2 3/3's instead of one 3/2 that you have to keep mana open to regen. Troll's just a wall here, although troll + jitte is GG against goblins if they don't tinstreet or disenchant.

4. Against aggro call is a 3/3 that allows you to play another 3/3 or a jitte + equip followed by a 3/3. Troll is a 3/2 that allows you to regenerate or play a jitte + equip. If you do this you don't have mana open to regen so you can't attack without the risk of your opponent killing troll via blocks.

5. 2 3/3's > 1 3/2 that can regen and can't be targeted. Why? Because in aggro/control decks 6 power > 3 power.

DragoFireheart
08-26-2007, 06:54 PM
Ok, so here's the breakdown on why I play Call over Troll.

1. Both are irrelevant against combo because they're a bit slow, however if your opponent doesn't have a fast hand call is 6 power on the board as opposed to trolls 3.

Alright.


2. Against control your opponent has to have 2 counterpsells. Sure if you resolve troll he's a 3/2 with regen, but again if you can resolve call you'll have 6 power on the board.

They can still be removed ala EE, bounce kills them, they can be targeted by other removal spells.


3. Against goblins you have to have 1G open to make sure he doesn't trade, only problem is that goblins can deny mana via waste + port. Against goblins call doesn't trade, and if you have double green on the board you'll eventually get 2 3/3's instead of one 3/2 that you have to keep mana open to regen. Troll's just a wall here, although troll + jitte is GG against goblins if they don't tinstreet or disenchant.

Goblins can't deny you regen ala ports, you can put the regen shield on your troll in response if they want to pull that crap. If a single waste is going to cripple the trolls regen ability then maybe you need more green sources.



4. Against aggro call is a 3/3 that allows you to play another 3/3 or a jitte + equip followed by a 3/3. Troll is a 3/2 that allows you to regenerate or play a jitte + equip. If you do this you don't have mana open to regen so you can't attack without the risk of your opponent killing troll via blocks.

And your Elephants can die just as easily, except now they can also be targeted by removal spells/abilites. Troll can't and will stay on the board until you let your opponent kill him, or they do mass removal


5. 2 3/3's > 1 3/2 that can regen and can't be targeted. Why? Because in aggro/control decks 6 power > 3 power.

Then it is in my opinion to get rid of Negator and use troll with herd. Negator does not have a the speed without Rituals and is a liability VS goblins and other aggro/sligh decks.

Again, this is strictly my opinion and I would need to playtest first, but Herd + Troll is better than Negator + Herd.

zulander
08-26-2007, 07:17 PM
Alright.
1. They can still be removed ala EE,

2. Goblins can't deny you regen ala ports, you can put the regen shield on your troll in response if they want to pull that crap. If a single waste is going to cripple the trolls regen ability then maybe you need more green sources.

3. And your Elephants can die just as easily, except now they can also be targeted by removal spells/abilites. Troll can't and will stay on the board until you let your opponent kill him, or they do mass removal

4. Then it is in my opinion to get rid of Negator and use troll with herd. Negator does not have a the speed without Rituals and is a liability VS goblins and other aggro/sligh decks.

5. Again, this is strictly my opinion and I would need to playtest first, but Herd + Troll is better than Negator + Herd.

1a. Don't flashback against an EE.

1b. If he plays an EE after you've flashed back a call token this means it's at least turn 4 and he most likely could EE for troll just as easily as he could EE for call tokens. EE for three would hit your gators as well which could be bad.

2. Regenerating in response to port seems really poor IMO, but that's just me. And why does the deck need more green? Because I don't want to pay 1GG 3/2 with a regen of 1G? the 5 green sources are more than enough to pay for goyfs and call. If I were to add troll I'd have to run more green sources ala overgrown tomb, in which case I'd have to cut wasteland, something I don't want to do.

3. Sure the tokens can be removed, but overall having 2 creatures > having 1 creature. Specific situations don't count though, because you can always come up for a situation on why one card is better than another card.

4. Negator is a clock, troll isn't. Negator wins games by himself in 4 turns troll doesn't. Negator can kill x/4's, troll cant. Negator can be cast very easily, troll can't.

5. Playtest please.

Illissius
08-26-2007, 07:43 PM
So, if I may apologize for asking, if the deck is even against Threshold, slightly unfavorable against Goblins and Breakfast, and has a hard time with combo, what does it have a good matchup against?

zulander
08-26-2007, 07:47 PM
So, if I may apologize for asking, if the deck is even against Threshold, slightly unfavorable against Goblins and Breakfast, and has a hard time with combo, what does it have a good matchup against?
It's 50/50 vs thresh preboard, and post board against goblins it's about 60% in your favor, the 9-11 record was game 1 vs goblins. And against breakfast it's a bit better post board as well due to the 8 discard and the boarded in gy hate for their combo. I do believe I left most of this out though due to the extremely long day I've had at work.

DragoFireheart
08-26-2007, 07:59 PM
I am wondering why you are only using one Taiga when you are also using Kird Ape. Wouldn't you want the Taiga to come up more often?

zulander
08-26-2007, 08:02 PM
The taiga is for the turn 1 fetch + taiga + kird ape against goblins turn one play of lackey/fanatic. Otherwise the deck is mostly black based and the BB in hymn so I play mostly black duals.

DragoFireheart
08-26-2007, 08:09 PM
1a. Don't flashback against an EE.

1b. If he plays an EE after you've flashed back a call token this means it's at least turn 4 and he most likely could EE for troll just as easily as he could EE for call tokens. EE for three would hit your gators as well which could be bad.


That would be 5 mana to EE a Troll/Negator as opposed to only 2 for your Herd tokens. Also if I am not mistaken the troll can regen through a EE.


2. Regenerating in response to port seems really poor IMO, but that's just me. And why does the deck need more green? Because I don't want to pay 1GG 3/2 with a regen of 1G? the 5 green sources are more than enough to pay for goyfs and call. If I were to add troll I'd have to run more green sources ala overgrown tomb, in which case I'd have to cut wasteland, something I don't want to do.

All you would have to do is move around some of your Dual lands to include more Taigas. You would want more Taigas anyways since you are running Kird Ape, and a turn 1 Kird Ape is always a nice start.



3. Sure the tokens can be removed, but overall having 2 creatures > having 1 creature. Specific situations don't count though, because you can always come up for a situation on why one card is better than another card.

So I guess this point is pointless to argue.



4. Negator is a clock, troll isn't. Negator wins games by himself in 4 turns troll doesn't. Negator can kill x/4's, troll cant. Negator can be cast very easily, troll can't.

Negator is good for control matches but horrible for your aggro matches. Metagame I guess.




5. Playtest please.

Once I get the cards or simply decide to buy MWS I'll play test.

zulander
08-26-2007, 08:14 PM
You don't have to buy MWS. As for adding taiga's that's a bad idea, hymn becomes much harder to cast, and in all honesty hymn is a bit better than making sure my kird ape is a 2/3 on turn one.

DragoFireheart
08-26-2007, 09:08 PM
You don't have to buy MWS. As for adding taiga's that's a bad idea, hymn becomes much harder to cast, and in all honesty hymn is a bit better than making sure my kird ape is a 2/3 on turn one.

Than take out the Apes and throw in Carnophage instead. This will let you swing with a 2 power creature while still being able to drop a hymn 2nd turn.

SuckerPunch
08-26-2007, 09:10 PM
Don't let all the detractors get to you zulander.

The deck looks like a lot of fun and I don't doubt could do decent at any tourney. I personally prefer Green Death or possibly even Zilla Stompy but I guess I'm a bit biased. :wink:

I do think Troll Ascetic is worth being tested if you hadn't tried it, I think a lower curve (Rancor perhaps) might help, and I do think you should atleast consider some basics to not get killed by a Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon/Wasteland+Crucible lock (Maybe cut a Bayou and Badlands for a Swamp and Forest), but if your meta doesnt see much nonbasic hate, you might be okay.

But the build you have looks solid overall.

DragoFireheart
08-26-2007, 10:46 PM
Also despite my various postings of your deck for changes, I don't want to give you the impression that I think your deck is bad.

It's pretty good and it is something I would make if I ever went R/G/B.

smoky squirrel
09-28-2007, 03:30 AM
Is this deck viable in a meta with ******** (both versions, some with Vedalken Shackles), Goblins and Landstill? There is not much combo in my metagame...

sammiel
09-28-2007, 12:06 PM
you might consider smothers or something in the board for opposing goyfs if you dont have much combo in your meta.

zulander
09-28-2007, 12:34 PM
I've been working on a current list once Lorwyn comes out, it seems really good but I still have an inner debate about one card slot. Here's the list I'll be testing once lorwyn comes out.

Mana: 21
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Taiga
4 Badlands
1 Bayou
4 Wasteland

Disruption: 16
4 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Seal of Fire

Beats: 20
4 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Phyrexian Negator
4 Eyes of the wise(sp?) / Call of the herd.

Utility: 3
3 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard: 15
4 Krosan Grip
4 Pyroclasm
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Cabal Therapy

I haven't tested out the eyes yet cause I've been really busy but thoughtseize makes the deck along with therapy in the board to help against combo.

Phantom
09-29-2007, 02:03 PM
Zu, always been a fan of the deck. Nice writeup. Here are some thoughts I have on the new build:

1) 4 Thoughtseize and Duress seems much better than Hymn. Hymn can occasionally hit a land but is much worse in the combo matchup, clogs up your curve, and puts unneeded stress on your manabase. I can't believe I'm arguing AGAINST Hymn.

2) Clearly you haven't read the actual version of Eyes (it only hits blue now) but it was a shitty card to begin with, so I don't even think it deserves a board spot.

3) I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I can't believe Nantuko Shade isn't in this deck. Just tell me you've tested him and I'll drop it. Ok, maybe not, but I'll try. He's quicker than Negator, beats for as much, kills Goyf without wrecking your board, and has a much smaller drawback. Even Anusien found him to be much better than Negs in the Red Death testing he did.

4) Also, I think you should fit in some Mogg Fanatics (maybe drop some burn spells some 3cc creatures). He works so well with Goyf on Goyf battles, pumping Goyf, burn, Jitte, and actually improves your combo matchup (I never thought I would say THAT about him). The guy is just fantastic.

5) I'm not nuts about the board. I think Leyline is the way to go personally. I guess I could see Extirpate being more versatile since you run Goyf and Wasteland, but slightly less game ending vs. yard decks. Either way I don't think Crypt is the best answer.

zulander
09-29-2007, 05:25 PM
Zu, always been a fan of the deck. Nice writeup. Here are some thoughts I have on the new build:

1) 4 Thoughtseize and Duress seems much better than Hymn. Hymn can occasionally hit a land but is much worse in the combo matchup, clogs up your curve, and puts unneeded stress on your manabase. I can't believe I'm arguing AGAINST Hymn.

Yeah, and being able to choose what to hit is great too.



2) Clearly you haven't read the actual version of Eyes (it only hits blue now) but it was a shitty card to begin with, so I don't even think it deserves a board spot.
Yeah, I just read it at the pre-release today. That slot will stick to Call of the Herd



3) I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I can't believe Nantuko Shade isn't in this deck. Just tell me you've tested him and I'll drop it. Ok, maybe not, but I'll try. He's quicker than Negator, beats for as much, kills Goyf without wrecking your board, and has a much smaller drawback. Even Anusien found him to be much better than Negs in the Red Death testing he did.

I did test out shade but since I'm not running the 8 black duals nor am I running rituals so more than not I'm playing other cards instead of holding back mana to pump a shade.



4) Also, I think you should fit in some Mogg Fanatics (maybe drop some burn spells some 3cc creatures). He works so well with Goyf on Goyf battles, pumping Goyf, burn, Jitte, and actually improves your combo matchup (I never thought I would say THAT about him). The guy is just fantastic.

I tried out fanatics but I prefer burn to him and I prefer Kird apes over fanatics as well. Burn is also better in the goyf battles than fanatics are.



5) I'm not nuts about the board. I think Leyline is the way to go personally. I guess I could see Extirpate being more versatile since you run Goyf and Wasteland, but slightly less game ending vs. yard decks. Either way I don't think Crypt is the best answer.
Crypt is better because once you drop multiples you don't have to worry about hard casting it and wasting a turn.

As far as extirpate goes it's a tossup between therapy and extirpate. I think therapy is a bit better against combo but really I haven't tested it that much. Thanks for your feedback.

Shtriga
12-12-2007, 02:38 PM
This seems like the obvious evolution of red death in a tarmogoyf heavy metagame (save for one card or another). I'll start playing this to try it out, but I'm not sold on the calls. I ever was even when they came out, and I own 0.

zulander
12-13-2007, 12:32 PM
This seems like the obvious evolution of red death in a tarmogoyf heavy metagame (save for one card or another). I'll start playing this to try it out, but I'm not sold on the calls. I ever was even when they came out, and I own 0.
If you don't like call you can replace them with Ooana's prowler (SP?) or something else of that nature.

Shtriga
07-01-2008, 07:48 AM
no one ever gave a thought about this deck in the past 6 months?

it packs good disruption, beaters, and reach, and the colors allow for a very flexible SB

joey223
06-09-2009, 01:49 AM
hey !!!!!!!!!!:smile:

any updates on this deck or tourney placings?

i was thinking about putting these 3 colors together and was wondering if i should pursue it.

or is all this just dead?:frown:

Blitzbold
06-09-2009, 02:38 AM
I think there is no reason to omit White as Nacatl proved to be the best 1-drop by far for this kind of decks. Additionally, in my view creatures like Negator also look more like a liabilty than anything else nowadays.

In my meta there's a BGR Aggrodeck which seems to work reasonably. It's a mixture of Red Death and Eva Green - maybe that list could be a starting point for you: Eva's Red Death (http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=26663)

joey223
06-09-2009, 11:13 AM
oh yea i've seen that deck before .i totally forgot about it!

but i would make some changes to it.not that its bad but just to personal taste.

is top,bob,tombstalker worth the 12 or so spots they are taking up?

Tacosnape
06-09-2009, 11:39 AM
I suppose I'll share my list of this.

4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Taiga
4 Badlands
2 Bayou

4 Kird Ape
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Carnophage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Putrid Leech

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Thoughtseize
4 Terminate
4 Snuff Out
2 Maelstrom Pulse

SB:
4 Duress
2 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Pyroclasm
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Tin-Street Hooligan

It's much more aggressive and plays much more like actual zoo. Everything in the maindeck is either a creature or can in some way stop a creature.

The ridiculous tempo you get from Snuff Out and the incredibleness of Putrid Leech are the main reasons to run Black, in my opinion. Terminate/Snuff/Pulse give you ten ways to deal with things too large for Bolt/Chain, minimizing the frequency that you'll have to trade small threat/burn spell for large threat.

Good 1-drops are hard to find but crucial. Kird Ape and Skyshroud Elite are usually 2/3 for 1, which is decent and dodges Pyroclasm. Carnophage is the weak link, but until it proves beneficial to splash white lands just for Nacatl, there isn't much better.

Hummingbird TG
06-09-2009, 12:53 PM
Is BB so hard to hit in that list that Tombstalker would be a bad choice, just a one- or two-of? It looks like a good fit, and your graveyard fills fast...

Moczoc
06-09-2009, 02:04 PM
I know, Putrid Leech is great, but is he really better than Bob?

and why do you play Carnophage over Nacatl which seems to be a simple 2/2 for G most of the time.

Tacosnape
06-09-2009, 02:23 PM
I know, Putrid Leech is great, but is he really better than Bob?

Yes. Plus we have the lifeloss from Snuff Out and Thoughtseize.


and why do you play Carnophage over Nacatl which seems to be a simple 2/2 for G most of the time.

...I have no idea, actually. The initial reason was that it can be sometimes relevant is if you have to lead with a Bayou, Carnophage is a better Lackey blocker than Nacatl. But that was when my build was heavier black than red and now it's probably not enough to warrant the change.

keys
06-09-2009, 02:56 PM
Magma Jet would be better than Snuff Out here. That would lower your curve enough to play Confidant instead of Carnophage, and you really don't need 8 narrow creature removal spells; 4 Terminate should be plenty in addition to the Pulses. Plus, Jet and Bob have some synergy, and burn is better in multiples. With that you have 12 1cc spells to open with (Elite, Ape, Thoughtseize) and 12 2cc creatures to play turn 2.

Edit: no Krosan Grip in the SB?? You're going to need it against CounterTop and Chalice decks. Vexing Shusher might even be a good idea, since you could easily get hosed by those cards...

zulander
06-29-2015, 09:51 PM
GAGOMY, the Godfather of JUND.

lavafrogg
06-30-2015, 02:42 AM
Super Necro!