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View Full Version : [Card] Spiritmonger: Has his spirit finally died?



DragoFireheart
08-30-2007, 07:17 PM
I almost never see this cool creature anymore. Is the Legacy Format too quick for our favorite beater?

I'm guessing the answer is yes. I'm not sure when as I took a break from magic around the time Mirrodin came out until just recently.

Phantom
08-30-2007, 07:36 PM
Not only is it too quick, but regeneration is terrible in the format. Tarmogoyf has made this problem all the greater, as now a measly 2 mana can produce a fattie.

The list of powerful creatures that are unplayable or at least borderline unplayable in the modern meta is almost depressing:

Troll Ascetic, Spiritmonger, Juzaam, Iwamori, Morphling, Exalted Angel, Roar of the Wurm, Myr Enforcer, Sengir Vampire, Serra Angel, Eternal Dragon, Loxodon Hierarch, and I'm sure many, many others.

When was the last time any of these cards made any noise? When were they used in a list that T8'd a big event? Hell the most successful versions of thresh at GenCon (I believe) didn't run any of the 4cc beaters AT ALL.

In a format full of 'goyf and 'goose and fast combo, slow creatures are unnecessary.

DragoFireheart
08-30-2007, 07:40 PM
Does this mean that card like Smother will start to go up in price due to the Goyf rampage?

Also, Goyf just went up to 25$ on Starcitygames. :eek:

It's almost sickening. I'm just glad I got my hands on a playset.

Jak
08-30-2007, 07:44 PM
I am dissapointed in myself for not picking them up when they were 5 bucks.

Xurcks
08-30-2007, 07:47 PM
I'm with you Jak.I lost the opportunity to buy a playset of them when future sight was just hitting the stores for 16 bucks =(

Tacosnape
08-30-2007, 07:52 PM
The list of powerful creatures that are unplayable or at least borderline unplayable in the modern meta is almost depressing:

Troll Ascetic, Spiritmonger, Juzaam, Iwamori, Morphling, Exalted Angel, Roar of the Wurm, Myr Enforcer, Sengir Vampire, Serra Angel, Eternal Dragon, Loxodon Hierarch, and I'm sure many, many others.

In the right deck shell, several of these creatures can and do still thrive.

Juzam, Iwamori, Morphling, Roar of the Wurm, Sengir Vampire, and Serra Angel are all pretty bad and not really worth it and either never have been (Sengir, Serra, Juzam, Morphling) or aren't anymore (Iwamori, Roar.)

Troll Ascetic's playable in the right deck, IE, something Green with splashes (You can only play 4 Goyfs, so he's a decent 3-drop to back Goyfer up.)

Spiritmonger can be played in certain Black-Green control decks. One of our teammates has a deck actually designed to abuse regeneration with Pernicious Deed and Nevinyrral's Disk, with a load of Discard backing it up. Monger's the prime kill, with Troll serving active duty as well.

Exalted's solidly playable, because she can be accelerated out in a Stax build.

Myr Enforcer's as playable as Affinity, which will always return from the dead at some point when people completely forget about it.

Loxodon Hierarch still sees plenty of play in Survival backing up Tarmogoyf.

Eternal Dragon's seeing plenty of play in Landstill and white-based control decks, which are perfectly viable.

So while Monger has taken a hit by more awesome guys like Tarmogoyf and Tombstalker, he's still playable. He's just not amazing. It's kind of sad though when 5 mana for a 6/6 with multiple positive abilities doesn't make people sit up and take notice.

Sanguine Voyeur
08-30-2007, 07:52 PM
I am dissapointed in myself for not picking them up when they were 5 bucks.So is everyone else who doesn't own at least ten play sets.

AngryTroll
08-30-2007, 08:09 PM
Well...Eternal Dragon sees some play in Landstill...but that's what, 1 per deck? And maybe one Landstill per top 8? And that particular build may not even be playing Dragon? Sigh.

Exalted Angel gets played in Angel Stompy...but that deck is on the decline in the number of people playing it. At least she gets played in some other decks, too. One of my favorites, and my playset is just gathering dust.

Troll is one of my all time favorite creatures, and it hasn't seen play in ages and ages. True, it blocks Goyf forever, but it costs 1G every turn just to chump. Sad indeed.

EDIT: oops, left this window open for fifteen minutes before replying....Tacosnape beat me to most of it.

Nihil Credo
08-30-2007, 08:24 PM
Spiritmonger is actually one of the best creatures I'd like to have against Tarmogoyf. It holds 'Goyf off combat (since if they clash, Monger will just grow bigger), which gives you time to draw into Deeds or Edicts or whatever removal your slow-ish B/G deck is running. If you somehow happen to be ahead in life totals, you can successfully race.

To my knowledge, the only other playable creatures that beat or outrace a 5/6 on the board are Exalted Angel and Mystic Enforcer. And only the former outraces a 6/7.

If you resolve a Spiritmonger against an aggro deck or UGR Thresh, they can only win by 1) swarming through it a la Goblins or 2) burning you out. I guess that might count for something.

Illissius
08-30-2007, 08:57 PM
I've been intrigued by Spiritmonger for the same reasons (beats up on Goyf) recently, along with Korlash.

Di
08-30-2007, 10:05 PM
I would be more intruiged with Spectral Lynx than Spiritmonger because it does the same shit against Goyf but starts it on turn 2, not turn 5.

Eldariel
08-30-2007, 10:15 PM
In the right deck shell, several of these creatures can and do still thrive.

Juzam, Iwamori, Morphling, Roar of the Wurm, Sengir Vampire, and Serra Angel are all pretty bad and not really worth it and either never have been (Sengir, Serra, Juzam, Morphling) or aren't anymore (Iwamori, Roar.)

While you may be right in general, I don't think Morphling should be anywhere near the bin you put it in (Serra and Sengir haven't really seen play since 6th and 'Pling is definitely worlds ahead of both); it's still a prime finisher in base-blue control blanking spot removal and ruling the field like nothing, while swinging for the kill in 4. The only reason it doesn't really see play is the lack of base-blue non-Landstill control being played (which too appears kinda weird since whenever the deck is played, it finishes in a very solid fashion, so it appears the deck is in no way unviable). But yea, for example Ur control really loves 'Pling over anything. Same with MUC.

TheInfamousBearAssassin
08-30-2007, 10:16 PM
I think Nitewolf had splashed successfully for Spiritmonger in a Solidarity build he was working on.

FoolofaTook
08-30-2007, 10:31 PM
I would be more intruiged with Spectral Lynx than Spiritmonger because it does the same shit against Goyf but starts it on turn 2, not turn 5.

Spectral Lynx is going to have the same problem as an anti-goyf device that Will o' Wisps and Sedge Trolls used to have against Juzam's: there are so many StP in play that trying to block Tarmogoyf with a critter is just a losing proposition.

We might see Spectral Lynx in a deck with Tarmogoyf though. If they plow your lynx they're going to regret it in a turn or two and you can block their goyf until the cows come home if they save the plow for your big ugly or used it on him already.

C.P.
08-30-2007, 11:00 PM
I am dissapointed in myself for not picking them up when they were 5 bucks.

Good thing I traded my 2 Flashes for 6 Goyfs when it was still legal.

Tacosnape
08-30-2007, 11:08 PM
I would be more intruiged with Spectral Lynx than Spiritmonger because it does the same shit against Goyf but starts it on turn 2, not turn 5.

This depends on the deck, I think. Monger's not a fast beater, he's a finisher in a control or -maybe- mid-range aggro deck. Besides, Lynx fits in White-Black, where Monger fits in Green-Black.


I'd be more intruiged with Tarmogoyf that Spectral Lunx because it does the same shit against Goyf but starts it on turn 2, not turn 5. And beats face.

This is a pointless comparison because one card requires Green and the other requires White and should have White/Black. Not all of us might want to splash Green in B/W Confidant builds for Goyf, so Lynx becomes an intriguing option.


While you may be right in general, I don't think Morphling should be anywhere near the bin you put it in (Serra and Sengir haven't really seen play since 6th and 'Pling is definitely worlds ahead of both); it's still a prime finisher in base-blue control blanking spot removal and ruling the field like nothing, while swinging for the kill in 4. The only reason it doesn't really see play is the lack of base-blue non-Landstill control being played (which too appears kinda weird since whenever the deck is played, it finishes in a very solid fashion, so it appears the deck is in no way unviable). But yea, for example Ur control really loves 'Pling over anything. Same with MUC.

Okay, valid point, and MUC might be stronger than ever with Combo and Tarmogoyf on the rise. I meant in no way to imply that Morphling was on par with Sengir Vampire, merely that he's never really found a home anywhere in Legacy's history as a flagship creature of the format like Exalted, Lackey, Mongoose, Confidant, and Tarmogoyf have in their respective times.

TheInfamousBearAssassin
08-30-2007, 11:16 PM
Not all of us might want to splash Green in B/W Confidant builds for Goyf, so Lynx becomes an intriguing option.

Why? Goyf is as efficient an answer to more Goyfs are Lynx is (more so, since you don't have to keep mana untapped not to die to Mogg Fanatic). It seems like any aggressively minded deck not running Goyf is putting itself at a needless disadvantage (a good sign that the card's going to be banned, I think).

Phantom
08-31-2007, 01:45 AM
Troll Ascetic's playable in the right deck, IE, something Green with splashes (You can only play 4 Goyfs, so he's a decent 3-drop to back Goyfer up.)

Spiritmonger can be played in certain Black-Green control decks. One of our teammates has a deck actually designed to abuse regeneration with Pernicious Deed and Nevinyrral's Disk, with a load of Discard backing it up. Monger's the prime kill, with Troll serving active duty as well.

Exalted's solidly playable, because she can be accelerated out in a Stax build.

Myr Enforcer's as playable as Affinity, which will always return from the dead at some point when people completely forget about it.

Loxodon Hierarch still sees plenty of play in Survival backing up Tarmogoyf.

Eternal Dragon's seeing plenty of play in Landstill and white-based control decks, which are perfectly viable.

So while Monger has taken a hit by more awesome guys like Tarmogoyf and Tombstalker, he's still playable. He's just not amazing. It's kind of sad though when 5 mana for a 6/6 with multiple positive abilities doesn't make people sit up and take notice.


Ok, I think maybe the term "borderline playable" was a tad strong, but my points and questions after that remain valid. What have these creatures done lately? (in other words, since Goyf hit)

Here's my problems with Troll. He's slow. He presents a shitty clock (3 power for 3 mana is awful in Legacy). He's mana intensive to play and regenerate (and lord knows he will be regenerating). He costs GG, and there is no fucking reason to run GG in Legacy (Terravore maybe?). He still dies to Wrath and Damnation, which make him crappy in the some of the matchups where he should shine (control).

An amazing stat here. I went through the T8 thread all the way back to 2005. You know how many Trolls I found? 2! As a one of in Survival both times. Even I was shocked at that.

I've never seen Spiritmonger T8 in a major event, and although I'm not combing through the results, I feel fairly confident calling it unplayable.

Exalted was hard to put on the list, but a 7 mana investment for a card that doesn't protect itself and is already in a color that has trouble dealing with combo. There are 4 Angels (in one deck) in the T8 thread in the last year. 0 since goyf (only 3 events). I was under the impression that the White Stax builds had dropped her completely, and it looks like Zilla is advocating the same of in the Stompy thread. I'm not even sure I want to play in a meta that can't run her.

I was under the impression that Affinity had dropped Enforcer for Confidant, but now that I think about it I'm pretty sure I'm wrong. Still, Affinity was having a lot of trouble keeping up with fast combo back when it was slow.

Hierarch. I was thinking the Rock was the only deck that played it (I thought Survival was mostly Gbr) so you have me there. I see that the list that T8'd at TMLO2 ran it. I guess if I see it T8 post gofy I'll be convinced. It seems like a strong card against Goblins, but I'm curious as to the life gain ability these days.

Dragon was probably the most iffy of my choices here. It hasn't T8d since Goyf, but I'm willing to give it a pass since I have such respect for Landstill (although a tad less respect for the UW builds which seem to be the ones that run it). I guess this was my thinking: Dragon is great because it is never useless. If it's in your hand early game, you cycle it. And if it's there late game, you play it. The problem I have is that now both of those options are shit. There is no "early game". Goyf turns turn two into the mid game. Hell, Dragon cycles for the mana it costs to drop goyf. And if you are lucky enough to survive to when you can drop a Dragon, there's a good chance that Goyf will be a 5/6!

Now that might all be untrue hyperbole, but I need someone to prove me wrong here.

@IBA: Not only that, but when the opponent doesn't have a goyf, which I guess is rare these days, your goyf is going to present a much better clock than is your Lynx.

Jak
08-31-2007, 04:02 AM
Good thing I traded my 2 Flashes for 6 Goyfs when it was still legal.

Oh not cool. Making me feel bad. I could have bought Flashes too for a buck, but thought it would get banned incredibly fast, so didn't bother. Next thing I knew they were al 10 bucks. Next time I see a hot card, I am buying 50.

nitewolf9
08-31-2007, 10:29 AM
I think Nitewolf had splashed successfully for Spiritmonger in a Solidarity build he was working on.

Not cool. Next time you have a piece of molten-hot tech I am going to tell the universe as well.

DragoFireheart
08-31-2007, 02:09 PM
Ok, I think maybe the term "borderline playable" was a tad strong, but my points and questions after that remain valid. What have these creatures done lately? (in other words, since Goyf hit)

Here's my problems with Troll. He's slow. He presents a shitty clock (3 power for 3 mana is awful in Legacy). He's mana intensive to play and regenerate (and lord knows he will be regenerating). He costs GG, and there is no fucking reason to run GG in Legacy (Terravore maybe?). He still dies to Wrath and Damnation, which make him crappy in the some of the matchups where he should shine (control).

An amazing stat here. I went through the T8 thread all the way back to 2005. You know how many Trolls I found? 2! As a one of in Survival both times. Even I was shocked at that.


I'll admit that the troll isn't as powerful as Goyf, but the fact that he can stick around and forces the opponent to either counter or do mass removal can be a huge advantage. Yes, he is limited in use because of his GG, but decks that do run enough green to support him greatly benifit from him. You never cast him right away: always wait for the mass board removal and then cast him. Your deck should be running Rancor/Jitte/SoFI so he can abuse it. Troll isn't intended to be a fast clock: he's more powerful in those games that are dragging out. He can also chump block Goyf all day long as well.

But you are right, the deck needs to be able to handle GG mana type.

outsideangel
08-31-2007, 02:37 PM
...but decks that do run enough green to support him...

...are already at a huge disadvantage because there's no point in running such a heavy green committment, meaning you're getting Troll but missing out on all the benefits of running more of other, better colors.

Tacosnape
08-31-2007, 03:03 PM
...are already at a huge disadvantage because there's no point in running such a heavy green committment, meaning you're getting Troll but missing out on all the benefits of running more of other, better colors.

This is not true. You can run a deck that supports double green while still handling multiple Splashes. Survival of the Fittest decks do it all the time.

laststepdown
08-31-2007, 03:15 PM
*AHEM*

:*(

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/neverendingweekends/DSC01616.jpg

Cait_Sith
08-31-2007, 05:11 PM
Who is that and why is that not in the Pimp thread?

MattH
08-31-2007, 07:06 PM
Has spiritmonger EVER been good? I mean, I invented using him in Eternal in like 2001 (or whenever he came out) but seriously now.

Bane of the Living
09-01-2007, 08:04 AM
I sold my GP Spiritmongers to a vendor right away to buy Pact of Negations for day two GP so I could play the broken Pact version of Flash.

Did anyone else notice that just like decks, goyf has hijacked another thread?