[Article] Calling All Dinosaurs

[Bane of the Living]

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/14691.html

First let me just hand a round of applause to a janky ass set of cards for something thats suppose to help mirror real life eternal. You'd need to be a fool to start cracking those packs just for fake Force of Wills.

This guy says all kinds of things about our format that make me want to vomit. Here are some nice highlights..

"I find paper Constructed Eternal formats to be utterly broken. When you have viable Goblin and Ichorid (http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardsearch.php?singlesearch=Ichorid) decks that can win on the second or third turn of play, you don't have a format that resembles anything I want to play."

Since when does Goblins win turns one and two?

"I trust the pros to create something utterly broken. The Legacy metagame is in more flux than it's been in a good long while, or so it seems. I figure that the pros should be able to break it in half."

Why do people assume just because some pros will sit and play constructed eternal for a day that they'll go and 'break the format'? They need to spend valuable time even being on track with the Legacy scene there's little chance any of them will create something ban worthy.

"Do I like the idea of a format crashing and burning? Not really. But if there's ever a format with the potential to teeter over, it's Legacy."

We survived Flash thank you.

"2. Mishra's Factory (http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardsearch.php?singlesearch=Mishra%27s+Factory)
Less ridiculous than Thawing Glaciers (http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardsearch.php?singlesearch=Thawing+Glaciers), but not by much. Colored manlands satisfy much more than the artificial variety due to their stronger flavor. "

LOL Glaciers better than Factory?? Here on Earth??

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Let's not forget describing Mogg Fanatic as contemporary. This guy suxx0rz, as the kids say these days.

[Cabal-kun]

It's SCG. Is there any inkling of surprise?

[The Rack]

Island of Wak-Wak. Srsly?

[Artowis]

"2. Mishra's Factory
Less ridiculous than Thawing Glaciers, but not by much. Colored manlands satisfy much more than the artificial variety due to their stronger flavor. "

LOL Glaciers better than Factory?? Here on Earth??

Um, in limited? Pretty sure deck thinning + mana fixing is just better than a 2/2 manland most of the time.

From his article

Masters Edition has a lot of powerful and swingy cards, so I'll keep the cant brief and list the top 5 commons, top 5 uncommons, and top 3 rares in each color for Limited play.

---

Why do people assume just because some pros will sit and play constructed eternal for a day that they'll go and 'break the format'?

though I now agree with the sentiment that people shouldn't assume pros will break every format they touch, to be fair a pro did have the best flash deck @ flash.gp.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I find it annoying that everyone's willing to, post hoc, decide that the version that won had to be the best Flash deck. No one ever claims that winning a Standard or Extended or Block GP automatically makes that the best deck in the format, but apparently winning 100% of the Legacy GPs in 2007 is enough to cynch it? Moreno's build was good, but it wasn't a clear quantum leap ahead of several of the other builds being played. The Body Snatcher without a Benevolent Bodyguard or even a Sylvan Safekeeper, for instance, was less than a stellar decision. Not a fan of Mystical Tutor over LDV either.

There's a lot of room for innovation in Legacy, but it favors anyone who takes the time to learn the intricacies of the format, whether pro or not. It's not a format that can be broken with a minimum of effort. Even Flash.Format required work to find the best builds and tricks.

[technogeek5000]

Um, in limited? Pretty sure deck thinning + mana fixing is just better than a 2/2 manland most of the time.

From his article


---


though I now agree with the sentiment that people shouldn't assume pros will break every format they touch, to be fair a pro did have the best flash deck @ flash.gp.

Well yah a pro had the winning deck but all he did was add a well known synergy to a deck that completely commanded the entire format. What this guy in the article is describing is that if pros pick up our format they will find some obscure synergy that is unknown to the rest of us and use it to break the format.

Reading this guys article made me sick. You can tell he doesnt know a thing about legacy. What realy disgusts me is that the people on the SCG forums are eating up every word of what this guy wrote.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

I was scrolling down to see what the people on the fourms said and I came across this;
1. Nevinyrral's Disk (http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardsearch.php?singlesearch=Nevinyrral%27s+Disk)
I can't believe they brought this back. This card's easily one of the most broken permanents in Magic.I guess standard is just reeling from the devastation that is Magus of the Disk.

Because Necropotence isn't a permanent or anything.

[kirdape3]

I mean, Disk has won more money for people than almost anything. While I can name more degenerate cards in a vacuum, Disk was/is UTTERLY RETARDED in Premiere-level formats.

PS: Moreno did break Legacy. It was already broken, but Counterbalance/Top actually did end up being the best variant. Not because it didn't have absolutely the latest technology in search or defense, but because now you don't need all of the search or defensive options - you just counter it with Balance/Top tricks.

Masters Edition actually is going to make Wizards a TON of money. Classic actually has a following, and people are pretty jacked over the idea of having Force of Wills to defend themselves with in that format.

[FoolofaTook]

The funny thing is that in 1993 or early 94 the first wave of real control decks tended to have 2 or 3 disks in them as a clear all to reset the board. For the most part the disk was just too slow, even with Mana Drain pimping for it.

That's not to say anybody liked seeing a disk land against them, but there were just so many answers to it and the turn delay was a really limiting factor.

The first good deck in my area that actually top 8'd pretty consistently was a BRU thing that used Will O'Wisps and Sedge Trolls to control opposing creatures and burn to kill you. It used disks off of Mana Drain to reset nasty permanent based decks and basically planned to burn you to death for the last bit of life off of a Mana Drain about turn 8 or 9. Swords to Plowshares became tech in my area because people hated that deck so much (well I did at least) and the deck died very quickly after that because the disk was just too slow.

[DragoFireheart]

SCG articles always seemed like random ramblings of an old tired war vet... that was a cook.

[MattH]

Disk saw extensive play at the highest levels from 1996 through 1998, in a variety of black (Necro) and blue (Buehler Blue, Draw-Go etc.) decks. Also some red sideboards as a way of dealing with enchantments.

It's a card with a strong pedigree.

[FoolofaTook]

Disk saw extensive play at the highest levels from 1996 through 1998, in a variety of black (Necro) and blue (Buehler Blue, Draw-Go etc.) decks. Also some red sideboards as a way of dealing with enchantments.

It's a card with a strong pedigree.

For black it's a natural because there really isn't a lot of removal other than for creatures in the color. Dystopia helped some when it came out but still very situational.

People who tried to use it as a catchall in otherwise versatile decks were the ones who wound up discarding it due to it's slowness and mana requirements.

[Finn]

though I now agree with the sentiment that people shouldn't assume pros will break every format they touch, to be fair a pro did have the best flash deck @ flash.gp.Flash was a broken card. One would expect that. Pros are not going to enter the format and break it exactly because there are no broken cards available.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

It's a card with a strong pedigree.I'm not saying it didn't see play, but it isn't "one of the most broken permanents in magic," let alone close to being over powered.

[DeathwingZERO]

I lol'd at nearly the entire article. It's great he called it "Calling all Dinosaurs!" because clearly as a player that's what he is.

And to be fair, Goblins did have a turn 2-3 kill deck with FCG. Unfortunately for us in Legacy, it got the nuts chopped off when we lost Recruiter, but the deck is still viable (yet very weak by todays standards) in Vintage.

As far as his explanations go, it really reminded me of starting to play Shandalar again. Every deck I play is packing Disks, stuff like Lightning Bolt are staples for red splashes, etc. So ya, it's like 1995 all over again, basically.

[Anusien]

In Limited, Disk is easily one of the most powerful cards possible. It's like ripping a Wrath of God, only 100x better since it also fulfills the need for enchantment and artifact removal. Considering how gladly people will play 4WW for a Wrath, 4+1 over two turns with bonus is a freaking discount.

Also, if by broken you mean breaking the color pie, Disk probably is #1. I don't think there is a more egregious breach of the color pie.

I think some of his placings might be wrong, but it's a solid article. He's talking primarily about DRAFT people.

[FoolofaTook]

In Limited, Disk is easily one of the most powerful cards possible. It's like ripping a Wrath of God, only 100x better since it also fulfills the need for enchantment and artifact removal. Considering how gladly people will play 4WW for a Wrath, 4+1 over two turns with bonus is a freaking discount.

Also, if by broken you mean breaking the color pie, Disk probably is #1. I don't think there is a more egregious breach of the color pie.

I think some of his placings might be wrong, but it's a solid article. He's talking primarily about DRAFT people.

In any relatively slow format a nearly universal sweeper is going to be very strong. It's when you have a serious problem on the board on turn 3 and are staring at a disk in your hand that you begin to see the problem in relying on it.

[ninjabear]

I was scrolling down to see what the people on the fourms said and I came across this;I guess standard is just reeling from the devastation that is Magus of the Disk.

Because Necropotence isn't a permanent or anything.

Wizards said, a long ago, that they regretted printing Nevinyrral's Disk, simply because it gave red, black and blue of a way to destroy an enchantment. Magus gives white a way to remove artifact, enchantments and creatures... and white already can do that. In fact removal is one of white strength's (or used to be, now it's simply weak :P) :)
If you think of it, there's no other colorless way to remove enchantments/artifacts. Engineered Explosives is the most similar thing, and though it does not specifically requires white or green, it's not going to be really effective in many decks like mono colored ones.

Otherwise, the article is pretty poor. It's the eternal type 2 vs type 1 fight. I think both formats are good, and there's no need to align with one or the other. The style of play is simply different. Saying that decks that can win turn 1 is not magic is, imho, idiotic. The problem is that people is used to build decks for a given format in one way, and when they see that their logics don't work in the other format, they think the format is screwed.

Also, I dislike the confusion shown in the article between the words Legacy, Vintage and Eternal.

[Nihil Credo]

In any relatively slow format a nearly universal sweeper is going to be very strong.
Just as an interesting footnote, I remember Hour of Reckoning being pretty mediocre in Ravnica block draft; 5th-6th pick maybe, which is abysmally low for a Wrath variant.
Turns out that in such a well-focused Limited format it just wasn't worth it to bend over your mana base to that extent, even to accommodate a Wrath. The convoke ability didn't help as much as it should have since most tokens were green, leaving you having to play your white guys as Wild Cantors.

[The Rack]

Doesn't Pernicious Deed kick Disk square in the nuts?

[MattH]

I'm not saying it didn't see play, but it isn't "one of the most broken permanents in magic," let alone close to being over powered.

Do bear in mind that his comments were in the context of Limited, where Disk actually might well be one of the most broken permanents. In limited, it's definitely better than Necropotence, for example.

The list of cards which are better than Disk in limited is a very short one. Masticore, Phyrexian Processor, Jitte, Skullclamp...not too many more. A card basically has to be an artifact (and thus usable in every color) to be even on par.

[mikekelley]

Doesn't Pernicious Deed kick Disk square in the nuts?

If you're playing BG, yeah, but if you are playing blue, white or red, not really :cool:

[mikekelley]

Oh, and this comment got to me:




1. Serendib Efreet

The mana cost is insanely low on this bargain. Longtime players have played this guy tons of times. It's a shame that the authentic art on this card is so bad.



I hope he means the revised art. Because the Arabian Nights/real art on this baddy is probably some of the coolest art in the game. He kicks ass...so does the art. He'd eat you alive. If they changed the art to some lame-o flying djinn with a wand casting off some random white streak of 'magic' like wizards loves to do with every creature these days, then I'd call it bad art.

[MattH]

I hope he means the revised art. Because the Arabian Nights/real art on this baddy is probably some of the coolest art in the game. He kicks ass...so does the art. He'd eat you alive. If they changed the art to some lame-o flying djinn with a wand casting off some random white streak of 'magic' like wizards loves to do with every creature these days, then I'd call it bad art.

Oh man, SO agree. I really hate it when they do that stuff.

[Bane of the Living]

Masticore, Phyrexian Processor, Jitte, Skullclamp...not too many more.

Dude, Spikeshot Fuckin Goblin..

We used to make jokes about people that passed him around, saying we'd make a T-Shirt for them that says I pass Spikeshot Fuckin Goblin. Ridiculous.

Now I miss Limited.

[DeathwingZERO]

Dude, Spikeshot Fuckin Goblin..

We used to make jokes about people that passed him around, saying we'd make a T-Shirt for them that says I pass Spikeshot Fuckin Goblin. Ridiculous.

Now I miss Limited.

I hear 10th drafts are pretty nutty.

As for the art, ya he better be talking about the Revised art. Cause the original was way, way better. As far as Djinn's and Efreets go, I think Juzam takes the cake art wise, though.