[Card Discussion] Lorwyn in Legacy

[Pinder]

Two new cards:

Timber Protector :4::g:
Creature - Treefolk Warrior
Other Treefolk creatures you control get +1/+1
Other Treefolk and Forests you control are indestructable.
4/6

Gaddock Teeg :w::g:
Legendary Creature - Kithkin Advisor
Noncreature spells with converted mana cost 4 or greater can't be played.
Noncreature spells with X in their mana costs can't be played.
2/2


Not sure either one is Legacy playable, but the second one definitely seems like Teeg is the more playable of the two.

edit: I'm dumb,Gaddock is fucking awesome.
Discuss.

[Angelfire]

Chandra Nalaar 3RR
Planeswalker - Chandra

+1: Deal 1 damage to target player.

-X: Deal X damage to target creature.

-8: Deal 10 damage to target player and each creature he or she controls.

Loyalty = 6

In limited shes deal with me in under 2 turns or eat Plague Wind and half your life.

[Di]

Gaddock Teeg
Legendary Creature - Kithkin Advisor
Noncreature spells with converted mana cost 4 or greater can't be played.
Noncreature spells with X in their mana costs can't be played.
2/2

This guy is incredibly good. Stops Force of Will, Empty the Warrens, Tendrils of Agony, Goblin Charbelcher, Ill-Gotten Gains, Diminishing Returns, Humility, Dread Return, etc. He's an absolute bomb against combo decks at the very least.

[AngryTroll]

Sweet....Tree- and Mer- folk are back.

The second one does seem pretty strong. My first thought was against Landstill's Wraths and Damnations....but StP, Edict, and Deed still kill it.

It says "Haha, you must kill me before you can get to my fellows!" But Duress does the same job, and Deed kills everyone.

EDIT: Oh, yeah, and he's good against combo...right...I just wanted to let Di say that, didn't want to point out everything about him by myself....spread the preview love, as it were...

[Pinder]

Wow. I think that Chandra is the best of the Planeswalkers we've seen so far (well, Garuuk might be a little better).

In limited though, this chick is easily the best.

[Pinder]

This guy is incredibly good. Stops Force of Will, Empty the Warrens, Tendrils of Agony, Goblin Charbelcher, Ill-Gotten Gains, Diminishing Returns, Humility, Dread Return, etc. He's an absolute bomb against combo decks at the very least.

I never really thought of it that way. Of course, he's so easy to remove via StP or something, I'm not really sure he'll be that effective. At the very least, though, he'll make players deal with him before get to do stuff.

He is legendary, though.

[The Rack]

I think the Kithkin is utterly terrible, I mean StP is the most played creature removal card in the game and this guy is merely a 2/2. 2 life is no bueno. Pernicious Deed is still a global wrecker and the best one at that and this guy doesn't stop that either. Edict, Ghastly Demise, Pyroclasm, StP, Incinerator, Vindicate, Deed, and many more. In a Goyf ran format with everyone hating on big creatures, littel ones will hit the graveyard soon before the goyf does.

[Di]

Wtf is everyone talking about this guy and Swords to Plowshares? Since when do combo decks run Swords to Plowshares? Why, exactly, would you board him in against a deck running that in the first place? To stop their Force of Will? Give me a break. Do you board Meddling Mage against Landstill? No. Then why is there even a discussion on him vs. Landstill?

You people are trying to rip this guy apart yet I don't see Meddling Mage get a new asshole ripped open. Sure, he can name StP, but he can't single-handedly beat every combo deck in the format. This guy is a great card for green and white decks looking for combo hate because they have a severe lack of it. Think outside the fucking box.

[thefreakaccident]

Not top mention that it does absolutely nothing against goblins and survival (which aren't dead yet BTW).

Also, it doesn't affect any cards in threshold... except perhapes the single mystic enforcer.

It may work its' way into some sideboards, but challice should be there in its' stead anyways.

[Silverdragon]

Gaddock Teeg is like Meddling Mage/Chalice/Counterbalance on steroids against the right deck. UGw Thresh will definitely want some for the sideboard.
As a Stax player I have to say the non-planeswalker cards previewed today are among the last cards I wanted to see...
First I saw the Treefolk and thought "at least it's not as cheap as Sacred Ground". Then I saw the Kithkin and thought "this guy is like 'Meddling Mage 1/3 of your deck'! I'm so building Threshold right now."

[mikekelley]

Wtf is everyone talking about this guy and Swords to Plowshares? Since when do combo decks run Swords to Plowshares? Why, exactly, would you board him in against a deck running that in the first place? To stop their Force of Will? Give me a break. Do you board Meddling Mage against Landstill? No. Then why is there even a discussion on him vs. Landstill?

You people are trying to rip this guy apart yet I don't see Meddling Mage get a new asshole ripped open. Sure, he can name StP, but he can't single-handedly beat every combo deck in the format. This guy is a great card for green and white decks looking for combo hate because they have a severe lack of it. Think outside the fucking box.

Seriously. Took the words right out of my mouth. Sometimes it is painful to read posts here.

Gaddock is a bomb in the right deck/against the right deck. It might do a bit to make G/W more viable and it will give a boost to UGw thresh I think.

And that Planeswalker is the stone cold nuts in limited, and probably type 2 and block.

[thefreakaccident]

The card is horrible, what are you talking about!

He cannot ever be fitted into any mainboard, and challice does a better job than he does against combo (while being a little less vulnerable to boot).

I don't get what all the fuss is about.

[The Rack]

The card is definately not mainboard worthy and GW already has Abeyance, Orim's Chant, Needles and the artifact stuff, Rule of Law, City of Solitude, Krosan Grip, they don;t need a Clasm'able dude that don;t do shit.

[mikekelley]

The card is horrible, what are you talking about!

He cannot ever be fitted into any mainboard, and challice does a better job than he does against combo (while being a little less vulnerable to boot).

I don't get what all the fuss is about.

Yes, because maindeck chalice is just the nuts in thresh.

[Wallace]

More info on Lorwyn!

The Wow Factor
While I don't want to give everything away, I'm all about the tease. Here are some of the many awesome things you'll also find in Lorwyn:

Planeswalkers – If you haven't checked out the Planeswalkers Minisite, you might want to take a look. Many, many answers about planeswalkers can be found there (including, yes, how they work). Every set we hype the new thing the set is introducing. Seldom (or maybe never) do we introduce something this different. Planeswalkers are something truly new. So new, in fact, that I don't think you can really understand them until you play with them. There's nothing in Magic's past to compare them to that will give you any significant frame of reference.

Tribal – What, one new card type wasn't enough (yes, yes, Future Sight had a tribal card)? If you're interested to see what new paths we take with the tribal theme, you need look no farther than the tribal card type. Why does it matter that my noncreature is a Goblin? Oh, you'll see. You'll see.

Five New Keywords – Apparently two new card types wasn't enough.

All Sorts of Cool Cards – Yes, it's time for the patented Rosewater partial information tease. Without further ado, some cards you'll see in Lorwyn.


the next evolution of a popular cycle from Mirage
a 10/2 creature for (okay, there might be another cost)
a green enchantment that can keep the 10/2 from hurting you
a cycle of creatures that lets you use a resource first seen in Unglued
a card that makes all your Treefolk indestructible (I know you already know it; it's still cool)
a white answer for any bothersome nonland permanent
a Shapeshifter lord
an artifact that lets you play spells for free
lands that provide two colors of mana and can come into play untapped
and a card that finally cares about Goats

[bigbear102]

He stops Force of Will, a reasonably common card in Legacy as far as I know. Survival decks don't like non-creature cards in general, and can easily fit him in the board to stop combo.

[Happy Gilmore]

I never really thought of it that way. Of course, he's so easy to remove via StP or something, I'm not really sure he'll be that effective. At the very least, though, he'll make players deal with him before get to do stuff.

He is legendary, though.

He stops Cephalid Breakfast as wel, CC of Dread Returns=4. He might be better than Meddling Mage against combo decks in UGW thresh. I picture this set as being a very ability centered, cost efficient set.



an artifact that lets you play spells for free
lands that provide two colors of mana and can come into play untapped


my god....this is going to get out of hand.

[mikekelley]

The card is definately not mainboard worthy and GW already has Abeyance, Orim's Chant, Needles and the artifact stuff, Rule of Law, City of Solitude, Krosan Grip, they don;t need a Clasm'able dude that don;t do shit.


They also don't need a disenchantable needle that 'dont do shit,' now do they?

There is an answer for everything, when are people going to get that?

You might as well call Tarmogoyf a piece of shit because you can Swords it.

[Wynk]

Gaddock is a good card. It shares the same vulnerabilities meddling mage does but does an almost equally good job at stopping combo pieces and FOW in a color that cannot normally stop them. For its colors its amazing. Its killable yes, but so is every other creature.

[Happy Gilmore]

Gaddock is a good card. It shares the same vulnerabilities meddling mage does but does an almost equally good job at stopping combo pieces and FOW in a color that cannot normally stop them. For its colors its amazing. Its killable yes, but so is every other creature.

I would say it does a better job against combo because it stops Belcher, Tendrils, and ETW all at once.

Edit: Oh, and it cant be REB'd.

[Di]

The card is definately not mainboard worthy and GW already has Abeyance, Orim's Chant, Needles and the artifact stuff, Rule of Law, City of Solitude, Krosan Grip, they don;t need a Clasm'able dude that don;t do shit.

Abeyance and Orim's Chant stop storm combo for one turn. Needle stops Goblin Charbelcher, but not Tendrils or Empty the Warrens. Rule of Law is 3cc, wheras this is 2cc. Sounds like a big difference against a combo deck. I have no idea why you're bringing up Krosan Grip. I'm unsure as to why you're bringing up Pyroclasm either, when something like Rule of Law can just as easily be destroyed (Burning Wish -> Hull Breach??) Not to mention, I have no idea why you're bringing up Pyroclasm at all. Are you under the impression this guy is tech against a red deck?

I don't know what you're problem is, but there's certainly something amiss if you're failing to see potential in a 2cc creature (see: attacking) that ends the game against every storm combo deck.

[Pinder]

]
lands that provide two colors of mana and can come into play untapped


Holy mana fixing, Batman! I'm not sure they'll print anything as good as the Shocklands, but this looks promising.

And you guys are right. I'm not really sure what led me to underestimate Gaddock in the first place, but I obviously didn't realize that he Mages every single win condition fast combo currently has. I still don't think he's maindeck material, but this guy is pretty much guaranteed to show up in sideboards everywhere.

[The Rack]

Yes Diablos, but I was under the impression that red combo decks ran Burning Wish and therefore being able to play red sorceries one being pyroclasm.

I see the cons as these:
He's a creature
There are better answers (see Null Rod against Belcher etc.)
GW is a weak combination in this format
He's Legendary
He has a toughness of 2
He can be killed by numerous burn/removal effects which are played in every deck

[Happy Gilmore]

Holy mana fixing, Batman! I'm not sure they'll print anything as good as the Shocklands, but this looks promising.

And you guys are right. I'm not really sure what led me to underestimate Gaddock in the first place, but I obviously didn't realize that he Mages every single win condition fast combo currently has. I still don't think he's maindeck material, but this guy is pretty much guaranteed to show up in sideboards everywhere.

If there are truely going to be lands that produce multiple colored mana we are going to see a new wave of Chalice/Trini agro decks.

[TheMightyQuinn]

Gaddock is awesome. He stops so many combo centerpieces that it isn't even funny. The fact that he can be StP'd isn't a valid arguement as far as I'm concerned. StP removes everything barring shroud. I think Di pretty much hit the nail on the head already. Which combo decks run StP??

The treefolk is just plain cool. I'll probably be making a casual deck to put him in.

[Pinder]

If there are truely going to be lands that produce multiple colored mana we are going to see a new wave of Chalice/Trini agro decks.

I think that what MaRo meant was lands that could produce either of two colors of mana, not two at once.

But if the lands really tap for two different colored mana, holy 1st turn Engineered Explosives at 2!

[TheMightyQuinn]

Yes Diablos, but I was under the impression that red combo decks ran Burning Wish and therefore being able to play red sorceries one being pyroclasm.

I see the cons as these:
He's a creature
There are better answers (see Null Rod against Belcher etc.)
GW is a weak combination in this format
He's Legendary
He has a toughness of 2
He can be killed by numerous burn/removal effects which are played in every deck

1) Nuetering a combo deck and being able to attack ftw is a bad thing?

2) Null Rod? Please tell me you're kidding. Pithing Needle is better, and it only stops one of Belcher's wincons. The Kithkin stops both of the wincons in one fell swoop.

3) And now that color combination has an answer to combo, thus making it stronger.

4) Legendary is annoying. But hey, he's going to be sent farming every 5 seconds so you'll never have a change to have two on the board anyway [/sarcasm]

5) What, did you want a Watchwolf with those abilities? One more toughness isn't going to save him from Lightning Bolt and two more toughness would probably raise his casting cost.

6) If you put it that way, why does anyone play creatures at all if theres so much removal? Plus, this guy is combo hate, and Belcher doesn't have MD creature removal.

[AngryTroll]

There will certainly be a drawback to them, like the Karoo lands of Ravnica block. Sure, they don't come into play tapped, but they might cost a chunk of life to tap, or don't untap for a turn after you tap them for mana, or bounce multiple lands back to you hand....who knows.

Anyway, I am really looking forward to a casual Merfolk and/or Treefolk deck out of this block. Ebony Treefolk, Nemata Grove Guardian, Timber Protector, some saprolings, hooray!

And the Psuedo Meddling Mage isn't terrible, but I am not sure that he is as amazing as some people are making him out to be. He is like a Meddling Mage that hits Belcher and Empty the Warrens and Tendrils of Agony, and he dodges REB and Pyroblast, but he still dies to Pyroclasm and everything. Yes, he's probably going to see play, but he's not THE NEW ANTI COMBO CARD OF LEGACY.

[Happy Gilmore]

I think that what MaRo meant was lands that could produce either of two colors of mana, not two at once.

But if the lands really tap for two different colored mana, holy 1st turn Engineered Explosives at 2!


no no, I am just really tired and miss-read it. In other words we are going to see new dual lands...again.

[Pinder]

but he's not THE NEW ANTI COMBO CARD OF LEGACY.

Actually, he might be. One of the biggest things EtW did to Legacy was that it gave fast combo decks (read: TES, Belcher) another route to victory, making them more resilient to traditional hate like Meddling Mage. This guy singlehandedly nueters every win condition Storm combo has (outside of Solidarity, I suppose but even then it hits Stroke, Flash of Insight, Force, and Turnabout), which is pretty incredible when you stop and think about it (I didn't right at first). You lose some of the versatility that Mage had, sure, but when did anyone ever bring in Mage against anything but combo anyway? In essence this guy lets you Mage 2 or more cards at once, and those cards just happen to be the opposing deck's win conditions.

And just happens to neuter other cards like FoW, Humility, WoG, Damnation, Ill-Gotten Gains, Diminishing Returns, and more.



no no, I am just really tired and miss-read it. In other words we are going to see new dual lands...again.


I have a feeling we'll see these once every couple of blocks, because Wizards wants to keep multicolor decks viable in Standard and Limited, so we'll see a lot of interesting takes on multicolored lands.

[GreenOne]

some TES and Belcher versions don't have Pyroclasm in side anymore, they used to cave-in the field.
Other than that, a belcher player is going to waste a LOT of cards to kill that guy or will do it in 2 turns. That means you have double timewalked them and made them use mana AND a win condition (B. Wish).
It can be quite good vs breakfast too, if they're still running the stern proctor.

Unlike Meddling Mage, it can't be REB/Pyro, and we all know that belcher and TES are running >4 blast in their side.
It somewhat useful vs other decks too, chanting Wrath, humility, moat, Smokestack and half of any 5/3 deck.

It's in different colors from MM, so it can be put in other decks too (survival?)

[Nihil Credo]

the next evolution of a popular cycle from Mirage Glittering Tutor? :drool: I sure hope it isn't another Charms cycle...

Now, regarding Garrock....

Tendrils of Agony
Empty the Warrens
Goblin Charbelcher
Dread Return
Force of Will
Wrath of God
Humility
Moat

Wow. I have been disappointed by Meddling Mage for months now, but this guy makes him look just plain retarded.
Also, Turn 1 Mother of Runes, Turn 2 Garrock... that basically leaves control deck with just Deed or 2x StP as removal. And you can Needle or Krosan Grip the Deed.

Might a G/W Midrange deck become playable now? After all, combo was what kept them solidly out of the format, and with a maindeckable answer to that...

[GreenOne]

Might a G/W Midrange deck become playable now? After all, combo was what kept them solidly out of the format, and with a maindeckable answer to that...

It can be something along the lines of D+T, abusing karakas and vial.

[Zilla]

Also, it doesn't affect any cards in threshold... except perhapes the single mystic enforcer.

Noncreature spells with converted mana cost 4 or greater can't be played.

Mystic Enforcer is a creature. Force of Will, on the other hand... it will stop that.

Then again, the fact that it doesn't stop much in Thresh is probably a good thing, since Thresh is already set up to use the card. It has access to GW already. Most of its cards aren't hurt by it. It doesn't really need help against combo, but what cards does it hate to see? It's not a huge fan of Engineered Explosives. Gaddock stops that. Let's see... what other X cc cards does Thresh hate? Oh right. Chalice.

This card will absolutely see play in Legacy. It's excellent against most every win condition in fast combo, it's rock solid against control, and it stops other prevalent cards like EE and Chalice. Highly playable.

[Nihil Credo]

Wow. I automatically thought of Rolling Earthquake and friends, and totally forgot about EE and Chalice. Amazing.

Then again, it stops the Midrange deck I envisioned from running MD Chalices and EE of its own :/ Although Trinisphere is still good... or alternatively, you could go the straight aggro route, but Watchwolf isn't exactly exciting.

Also, am I the only one mildly annoyed that Thresh is set up to make the best use of most of the Lorwyn cards we've seen so far? First Ponder, and now Garrock. I guess if UGw becomes the dominant splash I may be able to smash them with Planeswalker-enhanced control decks...

[TorpidNinja]

It can be something along the lines of D+T, abusing karakas and vial.

That wouldn't work. You want to return him to your hand in response to a spell and then put him back into play with Vial? By the time you do so the spell has already been played; it's the same way you can't counter a spell with Meddling Mage.

EDIT: Unless you're responding to a Madness trigger.

[Versus]

Holy mana fixing, Batman! I'm not sure they'll print anything as good as the Shocklands, but this looks promising.

.

I have a feeling they will revolve around the Tribes. Maybe something like:

Tap: add G or B to your mana pool

Unless there is a n elf in play ________ comes into play tapped.

[KillemallCFH]

That wouldn't work. You want to return him to your hand in response to a spell and then put him back into play with Vial? By the time you do so the spell has already been played; it's the same way you can't counter a spell with Meddling Mage.

EDIT: Unless you're responding to a Madness trigger.Unless I interpreted him incorrectly, then I thought what he meant was that Karakas+Vial would be a means of protecting him. E.g. A combo player tries to kill him by some means, you bounce him back to your hand and return him to play unharmed, ready to chant against all their win-cons.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Wow. Just wow. That's pretty damn exciting!

[Barook]

the next evolution of a popular cycle from Mirage
lands that provide two colors of mana and can come into play untapped
Enemy Fetchlands? Please? :cry:

Otherwise, the cycle is going to be either new Dragons or Charms.

Edit: Gaddock rocks! It's definitely a decent creature. I have no idea why some people are bitching about it - we can't get a Tarmogofy-power level critter every day.

[Versus]

Otherwise, the cycle is going to be either new Dragons or Charms.


Weren't Charms done in Planar Choas?

[Barook]

Weren't Charms done in Planar Choas?

So what? :confused:

But I forgot about the Guildmages which are also a very likely possibility.

[Jak]

I am drooling over Gaddock. I think he totally makes GW viable. Maybe a list starting with these.

4 Orim's Chant
4 Abeyance
4 Aether Vial

4 Gaddock
4 Tarmogoyf (will probably need more variety, but still great)
4 Samurai otPC
4 Truebeliever
4 Silver Knight
4 Isamaru

A crap ton of combo hate. Looks hot to me.

[Versus]

So what? :confused:

But I forgot about the Guildmages which are also a very likely possibility.

I'm just saying they aren't going to tease us with something they already did two expansions ago.

[Mijorre]

Guildmages? Ravnica
Charms? Spiral
Djinn?
Aura that can be played without permanent substance but with flash?
(e.g: You may play x any time you could play an instant. If it was played any time a sorcery couldn't have been played, it gains substance until end of turn and when it loses substance, sacrifice it.)
World Enchantments that are kind of sucky but people play them anyway?
Things which may scare Legacy players for 2 mana? (Flash - Sirroco - Tranquil Domain - Shallow Grave - <white is 'overpowered' with> Disenchant)
Multicolored sorcery x-spells that don't actually suck?
Mana diamonds?

The options are endless(ish)!

[Mulletus]

[QUOTE=Pinder;160170]
Gaddock Teeg :w::g:
Legendary Creature - Kithkin Advisor
Noncreature spells with converted mana cost 4 or greater can't be played.
Noncreature spells with X in their mana costs can't be played.
2/2
QUOTE]

I love how this stops wrath. Or at least they have to cast two spells to do it.

[RoddyVR]

anyone who sais Gaddock sucks, i'll buy all the copies you pull for $1 each right now.

i'm gonna need atleast 1 and probably 4 for my sliver deck. i didnt put meddling mage in (in part cause he's so expensive and...) cause he's not a sliver, but i'll definetly put this guy in.

a searchable (4x eladamri's calls MD) answer to both etw, charbelcher, WoG AND EE is exactly what i needed

[TheCramp]

Chandra Nalaar 3RR
Planeswalker - Chandra

+1: Deal 1 damage to target player.

-X: Deal X damage to target creature.

-8: Deal 10 damage to target player and each creature he or she controls.

Loyalty = 6

In limited shes deal with me in under 2 turns or eat Plague Wind and half your life.

She is pretty good with and against tarmogoyf. as long as an oposing goyf is at 4/5 or less, you shoot them down on the spot, and make yours bigger for later. she also kills a blocker and pumps your goyf some good. this is prolly a T2 play, but interesting just the same. She is way better than those dumb refrains from Urza's. 10 damage 2 turns later is quite a bit. Might some dragon stompy build make use of this? You can seething song this into play turn 1 or 2 in that deck. Blood knight, FTK, and Covetous Dragon could play defense, getting her to that 8 mark, she could blow, and they could mop up. Perhaps?


Her last ability is officially to be called delayed blast fire ball from now on.

Take note.

Thank you.

[TheMightyQuinn]

Gaddock is pretty nasty against Geddon Stax and the like as well. Stops Chalice, Smokestack, Magus, etc. I really like this guy!

[Pinder]

Wow. I automatically thought of Rolling Earthquake and friends, and totally forgot about EE and Chalice. Amazing.


Wow, I didn't think of EE and Chalice either. After that, this guy is almost maindeck material...

I searched for other Legacy legal cards with X in their mana costs, though, and there's nothing else relevant, except maybe Crime/Punishment.

[TheCramp]

Gaddock is pretty nasty against Geddon Stax and the like as well. Stops Chalice, Smokestack, Magus, etc. I really like this guy!

He also looks respectable. I prefer my army of cardboard men to look like trouble. His art is gnarly. What an angry little cuss, telling people what they can and cannot play, kicking them in the shins for 2. Dope.

[Versus]

He also looks respectable. I prefer my army of cardboard men to look like trouble. His art is gnarly. What an angry little cuss, telling people what they can and cannot play, kicking them in the shins for 2. Dope.

I bet if you could pull back on the card art a bit, he's holding a Shillelagh. It's juts blocked by the text box, I know it!

[iOWN]

Survival loves Gaddock. Teeg + Tarmogoyf is good against nearly every decktype, and if any card can arrange that it would be SotF. In fact, the only real problem card I can think of is Deed (apply several drops of Genesis).

[Lego]

How are people missing the most important part? Read:


a card that finally cares about Goats

Can we stick to the important stuff now?

[Tacosnape]

Gaddock Teeg is incredible. I've never wanted to make out with an old man so much in my entire life.

Green-White just got the Legacy staple its been wanting forever, and I'd go so far as to say that this might tip Green into being the strongest color in Legacy. If not, it'll put it as a clear #2 behind Blue (If it wasn't that after Tarmogoyf alone.)

But let's look at what all this shuts down.

The Freebies
Force of Will
Pyrokinesis
Unmask

Combo Cards
Dread Return (Dies to Crippling Fatigue, though.)
Tendrils of Agony
Empty the Warrens
Goblin Charbelcher
Diminishing Returns
Ill-Gotten Gains
Turnabout

X-Spells
Chalice of the Void
Engineered Explosives
Crime//Punishment

Other Random Asshattery
Fact or Fiction
Nevinyrral's Disk
Armageddon
Wrath of God/Damnation
Humility

And the decks that love this guy:

Survival
GK Salvagers (Wish Target)
Any G/W Mid-Range Aggro
Possibly some combo decks due to his ability to stop Force of Will.

EDIT: <Snip> Nevermind. I'm dumb.

...Also, does anyone else think that "Gaddock Teeg" sounds like "Guaranteed" if you have a bad cold?

[Zach Tartell]

I'm picking up my asian playset the day he's printed.

Shuts down moat and the abyss. Which is something to worry about, now that Enchantress top 8'd again. Man, the guy playing that deck must be so awesome.

[MattH]

That wouldn't work. You want to return him to your hand in response to a spell and then put him back into play with Vial? By the time you do so the spell has already been played; it's the same way you can't counter a spell with Meddling Mage.

EDIT: Unless you're responding to a Madness trigger.

It works if the 4cc+ spell is a sorcery. Leave the STP or whatever on the stack.

[The Rack]

Yeah there is no argument anymore, I took the otherside already knowing he was good but you guys showed how damn good he really is. Combo has another bane and the petty stuff I said earlier is well, petty... He's not good but great. I think he's definately 4 of MB worthy, I'll run him instead of Hymn for Funkrew and there is no turning back. The problem is the more we hype him being the most recognized Legacy site the prices might jump like Tarmogoyf.

[Pinder]

The problem is the more we hype him being the most recognized Legacy site the prices might jump like Tarmogoyf.

Eh, what do you mean? Gaddock is freaking horrible. :wink:

[Tacosnape]

Yeah there is no argument anymore, I took the otherside already knowing he was good but you guys showed how damn good he really is. Combo has another bane and the petty stuff I said earlier is well, petty... He's not good but great. I think he's definately 4 of MB worthy, I'll run him instead of Hymn for Funkrew and there is no turning back. The problem is the more we hype him being the most recognized Legacy site the prices might jump like Tarmogoyf.

I think it's a little risky to consider him a 4-of given that he's Legendary. I think G/W Aggro or Aggro-control decks might want to maindeck three.

In Survival I think I'll probably run either two main or one main and two board.

[Bane of the Living]

Unless I interpreted him incorrectly, then I thought what he meant was that Karakas+Vial would be a means of protecting him. E.g. A combo player tries to kill him by some means, you bounce him back to your hand and return him to play unharmed, ready to chant against all their win-cons.

Karakas and Vial is amazing in that circumstance. I was playtesting Flash against Death and Taxes and Id lose if he had a Vial since bouncing a True Believer or Pale Curtain got me no where.

This guy might make D&T tier one, all it needed was a bit more anti combo that could wear Jitte. Its a fuckin legend too, my god.

[Nihil Credo]

The problem is the more we hype him being the most recognized Legacy site the prices might jump like Tarmogoyf.Like Tarmogoyf, Gaddock will be just as much of a bomb in Block, Standard and Extended.

Besides, it's not like the Legacy community is so large that Protean Hulk ever became a $20 card.

[Bane of the Living]

Can you imagine if this site influenced card prices?

Digeridoo would be money!!

[Pinder]

Like Tarmogoyf, Gaddock will be just as much of a bomb in Block, Standard and Extended.

Besides, it's not like the Legacy community is so large that Protean Hulk ever became a $20 card.


Flash did jump from around $.50 to roughly $10-15, though. Just saying. Of course, that was likely because I Legacy GP was right around the corner.

But yeah, this guy is going to be expensive no matter what, because he stops a ton of stuff against control in Standard, too.

[DarkAkuma]

Most common Legacy cards he stops has allready been named, so I could only think of a couple. Breakthrough, and Anarchy. Though is not likely to come out before Breakthrough is cast. And it doesent do much against the rest of the decks that board Anarchy.

Ill deffinantly try to get a playset of these after they come out.

[Happy Gilmore]

Noncreature spells with converted mana cost 4 or greater can't be played.

Mystic Enforcer is a creature. Force of Will, on the other hand... it will stop that.

Then again, the fact that it doesn't stop much in Thresh is probably a good thing, since Thresh is already set up to use the card. It has access to GW already. Most of its cards aren't hurt by it. It doesn't really need help against combo, but what cards does it hate to see? It's not a huge fan of Engineered Explosives. Gaddock stops that. Let's see... what other X cc cards does Thresh hate? Oh right. Chalice.

This card will absolutely see play in Legacy. It's excellent against most every win condition in fast combo, it's rock solid against control, and it stops other prevalent cards like EE and Chalice. Highly playable.

Holy shit....your right. Chalice and EE, I never thought of that! Wow this guy is sick!



The problem is the more we hype him being the most recognized Legacy site the prices might jump like Tarmogoyf.


we talked quite a bit about tarmogoyf before it was released. Everyone was prity much in agreement that it was the stone cold nutz. Even after that I was able to pick up two sets of them, non-foil for 12 and foil for 16 (total). That was over a week after the release.

[Versus]

...Also, does anyone else think that "Gaddock Teeg" sounds like "Guaranteed" if you have a bad cold?

There's your catchy deck title, Gaddock Teeg Victory

[Barook]

The Freebies
Force of Will
Pyrokinesis
Unmask
Massacre

Combo Cards
Dread Return (Dies to Crippling Fatigue, though.)
Tendrils of Agony
Empty the Warrens
Goblin Charbelcher
Diminishing Returns
Ill-Gotten Gains
Turnabout
Deep Analysis

X-Spells
Chalice of the Void
Engineered Explosives
Crime//Punishment
Breakthrough
Rolling Earthquake

Other Random Asshattery
Fact or Fiction
Nevinyrral's Disk
Armageddon
Wrath of God/Damnation
Humility
Smokestack

Added a few cards.

And i wouldn't underestimate its impact against Ichorid, considering it can stop Dread Return, Deep Analysis AND Breakthrough - not that bad, after all.

[The Rack]

Demonfire and COnsume Spirit are still used as kill cards in some decks too.

I'm saying that we all did have an impact on how much Tarmogoyf went on in price, it's crazy to think we had no effect on it. Let's say CCGHouse or some rndom company looks on the source for 5 minutes and realizes that every deck is playing Tarmogoyf in the deck it's going up 5 dollars right there, or euros and whatnot. The more we scream Gaddock the more the prices are going up, lok at Extirpate remember when it was the "Are combo decks viable now?" That wasn't too long ago. It ended up coming out of the set before any tournament play and whatnot as a money card and still is.

[Di]

This guy might make D&T tier one, all it needed was a bit more anti combo that could wear Jitte. Its a fuckin legend too, my god.

Woah woah woah. Now let's take a minute, and laugh this one off together. However, it does make the deck better.

[Bovinious]

I laughed it off alone, but laughing it off together is good times also.

[TheCramp]

I had this thought of white splash into a rock build with him. This is an unfounded Idea based on nothing whatsoever. Except my desire to play tarmogoyfs and discard. That an be able to call the deck Crackrock. Rock + White Splash = Crackrock. sweet. Duress and Cabal therapy can keep them off their 1-3 drops, and Gaddock Teeg can deal with the rest. Stp and Smother to deal with pesky critters, Tarmogoyf FTW. Extra Teegs make good therapy fodder, I also hear that Hierarch is better than baloth... That's what I would do.

[zulander]

I'm saying that we all did have an impact on how much Tarmogoyf went on in price, it's crazy to think we had no effect on it. Let's say CCGHouse or some rndom company looks on the source for 5 minutes and realizes that every deck is playing Tarmogoyf in the deck it's going up 5 dollars right there, or euros and whatnot.
Actually the way they price their cards is based on supply + demand. It's when people here bought all the goyfs online that the price went up, not because everyone was making horrible decklists to use him.

Having said that teeg is ok, he's not bad but not even close to as good as goyf is. He'd actually be good in truffle shuffle as well.

[Pinder]

New Card up!

Dread :3::b::b::b:
Creature - Elemental Incarnation
Fear
Whenever a creature deals damage to you, destroy it.
When Dread is put into a graveyard from anywhere, shuffle it back into it's owner's library.
6/6


6/6 Fear for 6 is decent, and the No Mercy tacked on there is pretty cool too. With triple black, though, the cost of this card might be too prohibitive to see much Legacy play.

[Tacosnape]

I think all of the 6 for a 6/6 guys are going to fail in Legacy. Tarmogoyf averages around 5/6 for 2.

6-Mana Spells more or less need to say "Destroy target player. That player can't be regenerated." to be thoroughly viable in Legacy. Or have other useful things they can do for less mana.

[Pinder]

Interesting to note, though, is that his graveyard dodging ability is triggered, not a replacement effect, which makes him a prime candidate for some instant speed reanimation.

Still not sure if this is really enough to make Dread playable, but it makes it suck slightly less, I guess.

[Tacosnape]

Interesting to note, though, is that his graveyard dodging ability is triggered, not a replacement effect, which makes him a prime candidate for some instant speed reanimation.

Still not sure if this is really enough to make Dread playable, but it makes it suck slightly less, I guess.

I can think of about thirty better reanimation targets.

Still, this does put Dread in that rare class of creature that can fetch itself by being pitched to Survival of the Fittest. Now all we need is to combine him with some face-owning Merfolk with an ability that says "Whenever a card changes zones for the third time in a turn, take another turn after this one." and we'll have Dread Merfolk Survival as a new combo deck.

[Zilla]

Having said that teeg is ok, he's not bad but not even close to as good as goyf is. He'd actually be good in truffle shuffle as well.
He'd be a good SB option vs. combo for sure, although shutting down your own Haunting Echoes = :cry:.

[kabal]

New cards up @ MTGSalvation:

Dolmen's Door - 2
Artifact Rare
Prevent all damage that would be dealt to attacking creatures you control.
Illus. Richard Sardinha


Perfect Imperalist - 2g
Creature - Elf Warrior Uncommon
Other Elves you control get +1/+1.
{G},{T}: put a 1/1 green Elf Warrior token into play.
Illus. Scott M. Fisher

[Wallace]

3 new cards.

Perfect Imperalist :2: :g:
Creature - Elf Warrior
Other Elves you control get +1/+1.
:g:, T: put a 1/1 green Elf Warrior token into play.
Illus. Scott M. Fisher #220/301 2/2


Sunrise Sovereign :5: :r:
Creature - Giant Warrior
Other Giants you control get +2/+2 and gain trample.
Illus. William O'Connor 5/5


Faerie Spellmesser :1: :u:
Creature - Faerie Wizard
Flash
Flying
When Faerie Spellmesser comes into play, counter target spell with a converted mana cost equal or less than X, where X is the number of Faeries you control.
Illus. Rebecca Guay #89/301 1/1


I think the Faerie is going to be real good. Makes a great addition to Blue Skies I think.

[Shriekmaw]

3

Faerie Spellmesser :1: :u:
Creature - Faerie Wizard
Flash
Flying
When Faerie Spellmesser comes into play, counter target spell with a converted mana cost equal or less than X, where X is the number of Faeries you control.
Illus. Rebecca Guay #89/301 1/1


I think the Faerie is going to be real good. Makes a great addition to Blue Skies I think.


I believe the faerie spellmesser would be a good addition to the blue skies deck that we have work on in Syracuse. I believe the flash ability is what makes this creature really good and something to think about in the Legacy format.

[Tacosnape]

The Door, strangely, is just screaming to be tried out in Goblins. The prospect of not having to care about losing Goblins while swinging into your opponent is kind of a ridiculous one.

[Di]

Still doesn't solve the whole Pyroclasm issue though, but not bad.

In the meantime, Elves is still seeing new goodies. All they need to print now is Elvish Lackey, Elfpalm Incinerator, and Wirewood Fanatic and we'll be good to go.

[Phantom]

The Door, strangely, is just screaming to be tried out in Goblins. The prospect of not having to care about losing Goblins while swinging into your opponent is kind of a ridiculous one.

Yeah, it seems to be really good in Goblins already solid matchups, and help almost none of their huge problems (Combo, Plague, Clasm). Interesting card though. I like rewarding aggressiveness, but aggressive decks usually want aggressive cards.

[Pinder]

http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/mtgcom/fcpics/house/cm88_RingsofBrighthearth_1h26p0ec.jpg

Not really sure what to say on this one, the ability seems nifty enough, but I can't think of any situations off the top of my head where it could be broken.

Of course, that doesn't mean there aren't any. Discuss.

edit: Maybe with Scepter? It essentially lets you get two spells out of one activation....

edit2: The article mentions that this thing works with Planeswalkers, too. I'm thinking during prerelease, drop this, drop Chandra, wait a couple of turns, pay 2, gg? It would also let you get double the elephants out of Garruk, as well.

[Kronicler]

New card is up:

Rings of Brighthearth 3
Artifact
Whenever you plan an activated ablity, if it isn't a mana ability, you may pay 2. If you do, copy that ability. You may choose new targets for the copy.

Yeah... I'll tap vial, pay 2, and put 2 creatures into play that are uncounterable. GG.

Kronicler

EDIT: Pinder beat me to it! Gogo team Info-Ninjas being on top of preview cards.

[Pinder]

Yeah... I'll tap vial, pay 2, and put 2 creatures into play that are uncounterable. GG.


Not only that, but I gleaned this from the article:



Those are cool things, to be sure, but it wasn’t until I was looking through a visual spoiler of Time Spiral that I realized Rings of Brighthearth lets you copy fetchlands!


Wow. I'm so bad when it comes to underestimating cards. I'm still not sure whether or not any of these things will prove tournament competitive, but at least it does a whole lot more than I thought.

[Wallace]

http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/mtgcom/fcpics/house/cm88_RingsofBrighthearth_1h26p0ec.jpg

Not really sure what to say on this one, the ability seems nifty enough, but I can't think of any situations off the top of my head where it could be broken.

Of course, that doesn't mean there aren't any. Discuss.

edit: Maybe with Scepter? It essentially lets you get two spells out of one activation....

edit2: The article mentions that this thing works with Planeswalkers, too. I'm thinking during prerelease, drop this, drop Chandra, wait a couple of turns, pay 2, gg? It would also let you get double the elephants out of Garruk, as well.


Did they just make Jitte better?

[advisory6000]

Did they just make Jitte better?


It could maybe to slow. It does rock with fetchlands. If works the way I'm thinking about.

[Alfred]

You're missing a potentially very interesting interaction, which is between it and Time Vault. It's one mana cheaper to get infinite turns than Mizzium Transreliquat.

EDIT: The new errata of Time Vault actually requires you to untap it somehow, so forget what I just said. Transreliquat works better.

[Maveric78f]

The first thing I think about is wasteland. But it may be cool with vial too.

[Mr.C]

Or basalt monolith. Go infinite with two artifacts. Who knows?

Are we allowed to discuss non-official previews? because that white vindicate-ish enchantment looks very good.

[TheDrunkDwarf]

Faerie Spellmesser 1U
Creature - Faerie Wizard Common
Flash
Flying
When Faerie Spellmesser comes into play, counter target spell with a converted mana cost equal or less than X, where X is the number of Faeries you control.

1/1


Familiar's Trickery UU
Instant Uncommon
As an additional cost to play Familiar's Trickery, return a creature you control to owner's hand.
Counter target spell.

I dunno if anyone has mentioned this combo yet, but the new counterspell works great with the faery for reusable permission. Just a thought.

[Nihil Credo]

The Ring screams out to be broken. But I can't really find much worth copying - Monolith infi-combo is probably the best, a 2-card Channel.

The White nightmare-vindicate does not look really worth it. White can already remove artifacts, creatures and enchantments with ease; much of Vindicate's strength was its ability to hit lands. Though if Planeswalkers become a threat, it's nice to have a highly playable answer available.

[Alfred]

The Ring screams out to be broken. But I can't really find much worth copying - Monolith infi-combo is probably the best, a 2-card Channel.

It's non-mana activated abilities.


The White nightmare-vindicate does not look really worth it. White can already remove artifacts, creatures and enchantments with ease; much of Vindicate's strength was its ability to hit lands. Though if Planeswalkers become a threat, it's nice to have a highly playable answer available.

It's like a better Pacifism and Disenchant all rolled up into one. That's pretty good.

As Putrify and Mortify showed us, people are willing to pay 3 mana for a versatile removal spell. For most decks, Enchantments might as well have indestructible on them.

[zulander]

Double survival activations ftw.

[Nihil Credo]

D'oh about the Megaliths. On the other side, it seems like the Time Vault combo does work... untap Time Vault (skip a turn), then tap it and copy the ability with the Ring to take two turns. One mana cheaper than Mizzium Transreliquat, and the Ring is more versatile (copy fetchlands, etc.).

[Di]

It's non-mana activated abilities.

You wouldn't copy the mana ability, you'd copy the untapping ability that Basalt Monolith has. Only clause is you'd need two untapped mana to begin the process:

- Tap Monolith
- Activate Monolith untap
- Copy Monolith untap
- Monolith untaps with other trigger on stack
- Tap Monolith
- Trigger resolves
- Repeat

Not sure where you'd go with it, but it's at least better than Power Artifact. It's also nice to see Time Vault could be viable again as well.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

It's like a better Pacifism and Disenchant all rolled up into one. That's pretty good.

As Putrify and Mortify showed us, people are willing to pay 3 mana for a versatile removal spell. For most decks, Enchantments might as well have indestructible on them.

Agreed. It's also easier on the mana than Vindicate is, and its death could feed a Goyf. Too bad it doesn't hit lands, sure, but I suspect that we'll be seeing it crop up in Legacy regardless. Lorwyn seems to be opening up a lot of doors for the GW colour combination.

[TheCramp]

Rings seem damn fine in elves. You can't copy the mana abilities, but you can copy the untaping abilities of symbiot. that seems good. we will have to see what the black elves bring us. Perfect imperialist is way better than Elvish Champion, and one less green, and uncommon. Expect Elves in draft. In fact that guy is sick in draft on his own. 1 mana and tap for a 2/2? crazy.

It is an activated ability, which brings us back around to the rings again. Mana elves, elves that make elves, bugs that untap elves to make more elves or more mana to pay for elves with CIP abilities... Rings that double it for good mesure. These all seem like reasonable improvements to a tier 3 deck. Could it become Tier 2?!? I'm all for it. If elves get any kind of playable tribal green/black removal, which you can pull with Sylvan Messenger and Wirewood Herald, I should hope to see then back in the outer reaches of the meta.

Anything to see EP become better, right?

Also, in the article, he mentioned that you could have multiple rings in play to use multiple times. I'm I wrong, but this card looks like you can pay :4: to make two copies or :6: for 3 etc. Am I wrong about that? If so, why?

[Wallace]

This preview has been out a while but what do we think about:

Fodder Launch :3::b:

Tribal Sorcery - Goblin

As an additional cost to play Fodder Launch, sacrifice a Goblin.
Target creature gets -5/-5 until end of turn. Fodder Launch deals 5 damage to that creature's controller.

[TrialByFire]

Also, in the article, he mentioned that you could have multiple rings in play to use multiple times. I'm I wrong, but this card looks like you can pay :4: to make two copies or :6: for 3 etc. Am I wrong about that? If so, why?

With one ring out you can only copy once. The ability only triggers one time. Same way Mirari works

[zulander]

Just off the top of my head, activations currently/can be used on the reg:
Lands:
Wasteland
Fetches
Threshold lands (cephalid col, cabal pit, etc..)
Port
Karakas
Tomb of Urami
Manlands

Creatures:
Mogg Fanatic
Seige Gang
En-Kors
Kiki-Jiki
Mangara
Withered Wretch
Nantuko Shade
Elven deathtouch tokens dude
Incinerator

Nonland/noncreatures:
EE
Survival
Belcher
Jitte
Crypt
Scroll Rack
Seismic Assault
Top
Plainswalkers
Vile
Ravager
Deed

In each case, I'm not so sure I'd want the ring. It's use might be better in some combo ala vault as people have mentioned.

[zulander]

The White nightmare-vindicate does not look really worth it. White can already remove artifacts, creatures and enchantments with ease; much of Vindicate's strength was its ability to hit lands. Though if Planeswalkers become a threat, it's nice to have a highly playable answer available.
What card are you referring to?

[ajmmii]

What card are you referring to?

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=89082

Oblivion Ring
:2: :w:
Enchantment
When Oblivion Ring comes into play, remove target non-land permanent from the game.
When Oblivion Ring leaves play, return the removed permanent to play under its owners control.
COMMON.

Although some doubt the exact wording on this (since if you play this as the only non-land permanent, the game is a draw). Some think it might have "other than this" clause in it.

[FoolofaTook]

Can the ring be used on a fetchland?

Isn't the activated ability: tap, pay 1 life and sacrifice...

Where does the second fetchland to sacrifice in order to fulfill that cost come from?

I mean it sounds like you can copy the activated ability but it will fizzle in the copy due to being unable to sacrifice the second (non-existent) land?

[ajmmii]

Can the ring be used on a fetchland?

Isn't the activated ability: tap, pay 1 life and sacrifice...

Where does the second fetchland to sacrifice in order to fulfill that cost come from?

I mean it sounds like you can copy the activated ability but it will fizzle in the copy due to being unable to sacrifice the second (non-existent) land?

The tap, pay 1 life, and sac is the cost to use that ability. The ability itself is getting the land from you library, so the ring copies that. Thats different than, say, Mangara, where removing him from the game is part of the effect, but his cost is tapping him. Just remember, before the colon is the cost, which usually has nothing to do with the effect. The ring will just copy the effect.

[TheCramp]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=89082

Oblivion Ring
:2: :w:
Enchantment
When Oblivion Ring comes into play, remove target non-land permanent from the game.
When Oblivion Ring leaves play, return the removed permanent to play under its owners control.
COMMON.



That would be white's second serious solution to Goyf. Interesting.

[Peter_Rotten]

Oblivion Ring
:2: :w:
Enchantment
When Oblivion Ring comes into play, remove target non-land permanent from the game.
When Oblivion Ring leaves play, return the removed permanent to play under its owners control.
COMMON.


Could this be worth considering for Death and Taxes?

[Versus]

I don't really know how the Ichorid decks rolls, but couldn't you use the Ring to copy Colisiums ability to draw 6 cards?

And what about animate lands? Would you be able to use this with a Mishra's/Village/Conclave and attack with 2 "creatures"?

[TheDrunkDwarf]

I don't really know how the Ichorid decks rolls, but couldn't you use the Ring to copy Colisiums ability to draw 6 cards?

And what about animate lands? Would you be able to use this with a Mishra's/Village/Conclave and attack with 2 "creatures"?

No I dont believe the lands would work. In each case you would probably simply be turning the land into a creature twice...which wouldnt do anything. Kjeldoran Outpost on the other hand would put 2 tokens into play.

[sammiel]

the ring could see play as a time vault enabler, but I dont really see it existing in non-combo.

Colisseum would end up you drawing 6 and discarding 6, kind of a waste of time since you had to invest 6 mana to do that.

I'm not sure if manlands could be duplicated in this fashion, my instinct tells me no.

[Happy Gilmore]

Could this be worth considering for Death and Taxes?


if you have Layline of Singularity and karakas this can remove a permanent forever. This is very similar to the the interaction between unsummon and Faceless Butcher. This card is extremely good. It will give UGW thresh the ability to effectively remove tarmogoyfs and counterbalances in the mirror match.

[Ewokslayer]

if you have Layline of Singularity and karakas this can remove a permanent forever. This is very similar to the the interaction between unsummon and Faceless Butcher. This card is extremely good. It will give UGW thresh the ability to effectively remove tarmogoyfs and counterbalances in the mirror match.

So this card is a creature now?


T Add W to your mana pool.
T Return target legendary creature to its owner's hand.

[Illissius]

Oblivion Ring seems like an obvious Enchantress card, no?

Rings of Brighthearth can get you infinite mana with Deserted Temple, Seeker of Skybreak and such.

[Barook]

if you have Layline of Singularity and karakas this can remove a permanent forever.

Wrong - Karakas can only bounce legendary creatures, not legendary permanents. Old "Legend" = Legendary Creature

And how exactly is Oblivion Ring better than Mangara in Death & Taxes? :confused:
Enchantress, however, that's an entire different matter.

[Ewokslayer]

And how exactly is Oblivion Ring better than Mangara in Death & Taxes? :confused:


Well it does work right away instead of having to wait a turn. The lack of synergy with Vial and Karakas probably means it is a worse choice though.



Wrong - Karakas can only bounce legendary creatures, not legendary permanents. Old "Legend" = Legendary Creature

Why do people like repeating what I just said all the time?

[Peter_Rotten]

Enchantress, however, that's an entire different matter.

DAMN! Good call. It's even on color.... DAMN AGAIN! Why not Replenish a few of those bad boys into play for some extra overkill win more!

[Pinder]

Wait, does Rings of Brighthearth + Time Vault actually equal infinite turns? If I'm reading this right, you can tap time vault, pay 2, get two extra turns, then during the ukeep step of your first extra turn, you can skip your other extra turn to untap it, then pay 2 more to get 2 extra turns again. Repeat ad nauseum. It comes into play tapped, but I don't think that matters:

Turn 2 Time Vault
Turn 3 Rings
Turn 4 untap Vault, you skip your next turn, activate vault, copy with rings, you get two extra turns, which leaves you one extra turn to
Turn 5 untap Vault, activate, get 2 extra turns.

whoa.

[Nightmare]

Is one less mana plus actually having to skip a turn really better than Vault + Mizzium Transreliquat? I mean, I've tried to make that combo not suck a ton of times to no avail. I doubt this one is much better.

[DragoFireheart]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=89082

Oblivion Ring
:2: :w:
Enchantment
When Oblivion Ring comes into play, remove target non-land permanent from the game.
When Oblivion Ring leaves play, return the removed permanent to play under its owners control.
COMMON.

Although some doubt the exact wording on this (since if you play this as the only non-land permanent, the game is a draw). Some think it might have "other than this" clause in it.

It seems like a poor-mans swords. Granted you can use it on non-creatures but it seems a little too expensive for what you get.

[Tacosnape]

Oblivion Ring will be a -house- in Enchantress. Bank on it.

The ironic part is that when combined with Karmic Justice, if they kill the Ring, you can just kill whatever came back into play.

EDIT: Er. How exactly does that work if you play it without any other nonland permanents in play? Doesn't it draw the game?

[Nightmare]

Secluded Glen
Land
As Secluded Glen comes into play, you may reveal a Faerie card from you hand, if you do, Secluded comes into play untapped. Otherwise, it comes into play tapped
T: add :u: or :b: to your mana pool
Rare.


Yes, there are more dual lands for other 'Tribes': BG for Treefolk, UW for Merfolk, RW for Giants, BR for Goblins, GW for Kithkin… and so on! Sweet huh?

So if Goblins goes R/B, they can play 12 actual duals, with 16 if you count painlands? Seems ok. That one is the only relevant one.

[Alfred]

It seems like a poor-mans swords. Granted you can use it on non-creatures but it seems a little too expensive for what you get.

It's a little expensive, but we've seen 3 mana removal in this format before, and some of it requiring two different types of mana i.e. GB, WB, etc.

It's a more limited Vindicate in a single color with a potential upside (being an enchantment). For decks that don't want to splash black, or decks that are already committed too many non-black colors, this could be a very interesting catch-all option.

On top of that it also allows decks with limited deckspace the ability to answer almost any problem on the board. I think it'll see play.

[DragoFireheart]

It's a little expensive, but we've seen 3 mana removal in this format before, and some of it requiring two different types of mana i.e. GB, WB, etc.

It's a more limited Vindicate in a single color with a potential upside (being an enchantment). For decks that don't want to splash black, or decks that are already committed too many non-black colors, this could be a very interesting catch-all option.

On top of that it also allows decks with limited deckspace the ability to answer almost any problem on the board. I think it'll see play.

I wonder what combos this enchantment can be used to abuse with?

[Nihil Credo]

Is one less mana plus actually having to skip a turn really better than Vault + Mizzium Transreliquat? I mean, I've tried to make that combo not suck a ton of times to no avail. I doubt this one is much better.
If you don't have a Time Vault, Transreliquat is usually a blank, whereas Oblivion Ring can copy fetchlands and/or Wastelands. Nothing to get really excited about, but still nice to have if your mana is under attack.

On another note, Dolmen's Door may in fact have a use, although it's come about a year too late: when/if Goblins becomes dominant again, it's a damn fine card to have against White-based creature decks, usually a terrible matchup. Swing right through their Silver Knight/Mother of Runes, and without even triggering Jitte!

[Alfred]

I wonder what combos this enchantment can be used to abuse with?

Replenish is one, if a little clumsy. If Enchantress was a little more prison-oriented and less combo, I could see it in there too.

Bouncing it when it comes into play with it's effect on the stack will remove a permanent forever (I think). So if you had some way of bouncing it instantly multiple times, it could be an interesting combo.

It could also be utilized in some sort of silver bullet deck with Enlightened Tutor to reduce deckspace.

There are probably more that I'm not thinking of, but it's still interesting to see where it might be useful.

[Zilla]

That would be white's second serious solution to Goyf. Interesting.
Condemn is white's second serious answer to Goyf, if it really needs one.

[Alfred]

Condemn is white's second serious answer to Goyf, if it really needs one.

Unless they are a combat-oriented deck that needs to get it out of the way.

[Pinder]

Is one less mana plus actually having to skip a turn really better than Vault + Mizzium Transreliquat? I mean, I've tried to make that combo not suck a ton of times to no avail. I doubt this one is much better.

You don't actually have to skip a turn at all. Well, you technically do, but you never lose any turns. The turn you untap Vault the first time, you lose 1 turn, but you gain two turns by activating it and copying it with the Rings. 2-1 = 1, not -1. You still have a turn left over, which you use to untap Vault again (-1 turns), and activate it with Rings again (+2 turns). So it's basically a cheaper alternative that isn't nearly as narrow as Transreliquat.

Of course, being better than TransVault isn't really saying a whole lot in Legacy. This combo might suck just as hard, but someone should at least try and break it.

And yeah, Oblivion Ring = some good in Enchantress. That thing under Sterling Grove is basically a Swords that cantrips. Like three times. And by that I mean deals 6 damage.

[Zach Tartell]

Oh, child - oblivion ring! It's like swords, but better, because I get to draw off of it. Hi-oh!

[Alfred]

You don't actually have to skip a turn at all. Well, you technically do, but you never lose any turns. The turn you untap Vault the first time, you lose 1 turn, but you gain two turns by activating it and copying it with the Rings. 2-1 = 1, not -1. You still have a turn left over, which you use to untap Vault again (-1 turns), and activate it with Rings again (+2 turns). So it's basically a cheaper alternative that isn't nearly as narrow as Transreliquat.

Actually, you have to have a way to untap it under the current erratta. Unless you do, you're waiting another turn.

[Pinder]

Actually, you have to have a way to untap it under the current erratta. Unless you do, you're waiting another turn.

Waiting a turn, sure, but you don't actually have to skip a turn, like Nightmare was suggesting.

[Alfred]

Waiting a turn, sure, but you don't actually have to skip a turn, like Nightmare was suggesting.

Waiting a turn probably makes it worse than Transreliquat.

[Pinder]

Waiting a turn probably makes it worse than Transreliquat.

You're honestly saying that people drop and activate Transreliquat (with a Vault in play) in the same turn before turn 5 or 6? I suppose you could argue that if the Vault comes into play after the other piece of the combo, then Transreliquat is probably better because you don't have to wait for Vault to untap before taking infinite turns. But you can easily drop the Vault before Rings or Transreilquat, and in that case you have to wait a turn either way. And the Rings are much less narrow.

[Alfred]

You're honestly saying that people drop and activate Transreliquat (with a Vault in play) in the same turn before turn 5 or 6? I suppose you could argue that if the Vault comes into play after the other piece of the combo, then Transreliquat is probably better because you don't have to wait for Vault to untap before taking infinite turns. But you can easily drop the Vault before Rings or Transreilquat, and in that case you have to wait a turn either way. And the Rings are much less narrow.

The thing is though is that if you can wait a turn with Rings, you can wait a turn with Trans.

I'm pretty sure that being able to play and activate it on turn 6 is better than doubling your fetchlands.

[Versus]

So if Goblins goes R/B, they can play 12 actual duals, with 16 if you count painlands? Seems ok. That one is the only relevant one.

I came pretty close back on page 2, but I said the creature had to be in play, not revealed.

[dahcmai]

Well, if there's any card out of this set that might find it's way into Legacy, I bet $5 this one will.

Artifact - 3

Whenever you play an activated ability, if it isn't a mana ability, you may pay 2. If you do, copy that ability. You may choose new targets for that ability.



Yeah, this one will take some brainstorming to squeeze something nasty out of it, but I bet it's there.

[Wallace]

Well, if there's any card out of this set that might find it's way into Legacy, I bet $5 this one will.

Artifact - 3

Whenever you play an activated ability, if it isn't a mana ability, you may pay 2. If you do, copy that ability. You may choose new targets for that ability.



Yeah, this one will take some brainstorming to squeeze something nasty out of it, but I bet it's there.

Your about a day and a half late with this one buddy!

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Lignify 1G
Tribal Enchantment - Treefolk Aura
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature becomes a 0/4 Treefolk and loses all other abilities.



Green finally has something very close to creature removal, and at an affordable cost! YAY!


Just wanted to say that I'm happy to see this. I doubt it will see very much Legacy play (although you never know...), but it actually isn't bad at all, metagame/format considerations aside. Leaves room for hope. :smile:

[Pinder]

http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/mtgcom/fcpics/swimming/mf163_CrypticCommand_yxsgjij5.jpg

:eek:



The Lorwyn set features a cycle of five cards with "Command" in their name. These are modal cards in which you choose two modes rather than one.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

That is pretty damn sweet. Prohibitive cost (costs, we can probably assume), but blooody cool. Very exciting. :smile:

[Pinder]

Whether it gets played in Legacy or not, I can see this thing hitting standard pretty hard. I mean, people are already paying :1::u::u: to counter spells, I'm sure control would be willing to pony up another :u: to draw a card. Or bounce something. Or tap all of your opponent's dudes.

It doesn't even need to counter anything, either. This card is so versatile it blows my mind.

[Di]

Lignify is really interesting. It definetely gives a deck like U/g Threshold a solid "removal" spell without having to splash the 3rd color. Plus it'll be great for the Tarmogoyf mirror.

[Tacosnape]

Cryptic Command is interesting. Solidarity Wish target, anyone? It does everything Solidarity wants to do: Draw a card, Bounce a problem permanent, Counter a spell, or fog for a turn.

[mikekelley]

The wording on Command really irritates me.

Or or or or.

[DarkAkuma]

Lignify 1G
Tribal Enchantment - Treefolk Aura
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature becomes a 0/4 Treefolk and loses all other abilities.



Green finally has something very close to creature removal, and at an affordable cost! YAY!


Just wanted to say that I'm happy to see this. I doubt it will see very much Legacy play (although you never know...), but it actually isn't bad at all, metagame/format considerations aside. Leaves room for hope. :smile:

Green had something simular allready. Utopia Vow. Its a matter of opinion/deck of which is better/worse. Opp getting a extra mana of any color every turn, or a 0/4 blocker.

[dahcmai]

That's pretty amusing on a tog. Probably no better than Swords or such, but it's nice to see mono green get a creature control card.



And yeah, I guess I was way late on that Ring. lol ooops.

[Versus]

Command spells could turn out to be pretty solid. I can the black one being something like:

1BBB

Choose two - Destroy any non-black non-artifact creature; or Target player discards a card; or all creatures get a -1/-1 until end or turn; or draw a card and lose 1 life.

The red one is gonna be a pain in the dick, I know it.

[Puzzle]

Lignify is really interesting. It definetely gives a deck like U/g Threshold a solid "removal" spell without having to splash the 3rd color. Plus it'll be great for the Tarmogoyf mirror.Considering the likelyhood of playing Mongoose with the Goyf, plus the turn wasted sending your Goyf breaking it, I think you're much better off with Utopia Vow, which I wouldn't play anyway, preferring Mind Harness (which handles Lackey in some clunky way).

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Command spells could turn out to be pretty solid. I can the black one being something like:

1BBB

Choose two - Destroy any non-black non-artifact creature; or Target player discards a card; or all creatures get a -1/-1 until end or turn; or draw a card and lose 1 life.

The red one is gonna be a pain in the dick, I know it.

I suspect that one of the black one's effects will be a reanimation effect.


As for red... burn to player, burn to creature, land destruction, and something else?

The most amusing (briefly, until people played it) would be if black or red got a ritual effect shuffled into a hyper-versatile card. :laugh:

[Barook]

While it isn't an official preview, this one is another interesting card:


Tarfire :r:
Tribal Instant- Goblin (common)
Tarfire deals 2 damage to target creature or player.

[Versus]

So now Ringleader can net you more goblins AND burn and Matron can fetch it straight out!


The most amusing (briefly, until people played it) would be if black or red got a ritual effect shuffled into a hyper-versatile card

Its time Ritual was given back to the people!

[TheCramp]

Tarfire :r:
Tribal Instant- Goblin (common)
Tarfire deals 2 damage to target creature or player.

Is this better that seal to pump a goyf? Your opponent is more likely to play an enchantment of his own, so probably. Go G/R beats!

[Lego]

Plus it'll be great for the Tarmogoyf mirror.

You mean the Legacy metagame?

[Wallace]

7 new cards up:

Ajani Goldmane :2::w::w:
Planeswalker - Ajani

+1: You gain 2 life

-1: Creatures you control get +1/+1 and vigilance until end of turn.

-6: Put an X/X white Avatar creature token into play with power and toughness each equal to your life total.
4

Brigid, Hero of Kinsbaile :2::w::w:
Legendary Creature - Kithkin Warrior

First strike
T : Brigid, Hero of Kinsbaile deals 2 damage to each attacking or blocking creature.
2/3

Tarfire :r:
Tribal Instant - Goblin
Tarfire deals 2 damage to target creature or player.


Flamekin Bladewhirl :r:
Creature - Elemental Warrior
As an additional cost to play Flamekin Bladewhirl, reveal an Elemental card from your hand or pay :3:.
2/1


Moonglove Winnower :3::b:
Creature - Elf Rogue

Deathtouch
2/3

[Wallace]

Pestermite :2::u:
Creature - Faerie Rogue
Flash
Flying
When Pestermite comes into play, you may tap or untap target permanent.
2/1


Goatnapper :2::r:
Creature - Goblin Rogue
When Goatnapper comes into play, untap target Goat and gain control of it until end of turn.
It gains haste until end of turn.
2/2

[Happy Gilmore]

Tarfire

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manar.gifTribal Instant - Goblin http://mtgsalvation.com/images/spoiler/lorwyn-common.gif

Tarfire deals 2 damage to target creature or player.


Is absolutely awsome.

lol, +2/+2 to Tarmogoyf.

edit:

Boggart Shenanigans
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/mana2.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manar.gif
Tribal Enchantment- goblin
Whenever a goblin card is put into your graveyard from play, Boggart Shenanigans deals 1 damage to target player.
Uncommon.

Horner's Greed
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/mana3.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manab.gif
Sorcery
Draw 2 cards and lose 2 life.
Clash with an opponent, if you win, repeat this process.
Uncommon

Vivid Lake (Name & Rarity not 100%)
Land
Vivid Lake comes into play tapped with 2 storage counters.
Tap: Add http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gif to your mana pool
Remove a storage counter, Tap: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
Uncommon


This is going to push mana bases to near perfect.

[zulander]

that white kithkin warrior is sick in limited

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Boggart Shenanigans is ridiculous. Can't say it's not cool to see Goblins get a pretty new tool, though. Could perhaps yield some sort of Goblin-based combo (beyond ETW, I mean, although perhaps it could be used in that context too).

[Pinder]

http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/mtgcom/fcpics/latest/dl2_DorantheSiegeTower_1ksb7jpw.jpg

Um.....whoa?

I can't think of a useful application of the ability (outside of hosing Piledriver or somesuch), but it certainly is spiffy and new. But at 3 mana (albeit 3 different colors), he sure is affordable for essentially a 5/5.

Although this perma-About Face will be interesting with things that pump toughness....like OMG Daru Spiritualist + Nomads En-Kor! Swing for infy, gg.

That example probably isn't viable, but it's definitely a build around me sort of thing.

Maybe something with a bunch of Walls + this guy + Rolling Stones as a finisher...


Oh, and it makes Tarmogoyf better. Go figure.

edit: Holy shit Tireless Tribes! Discard a card: +4/+4. That's sexy.

edit2: Forget all that shit I just said. This Guy + Ornithopter + Phyrexian Walker. How do you like your free 2/2 flyers and 3/3 ground pounders? Shield Sphere has defender, but it's still a free 6/6.

This guy is awesome.

edit more: 1/1 Kobolds! Or not.

[dahcmai]

So that thing is basically a 5/5 for 3? interesting by itself.


The white Planeswalker has my attention.

So basically it goes like this? My turn play it, gain 2 life.

Your turn, gain 2 more.

My turn again, make a Serra Avatar token? Seems good for 4 mana.

[Alfred]

Wow, not only is a 5/5 for 3 mana awesome, it hoses lots of aggro creatures.

Aggro Truffle Shuffle anyone?

[Goaswerfraiejen]

The white Planeswalker has my attention.

So basically it goes like this? My turn play it, gain 2 life.

Your turn, gain 2 more.

My turn again, make a Serra Avatar token? Seems good for 4 mana.

Agreed, he's the most likely candidate to see play in Legacy, I think. Except that Planeswalkers' abilities can only be used as sorceries. Still, at four mana, he comes down early and does whatever you need him to (like give your creatures vigilance) for however long you like.

[Pinder]

Aggro Truffle Shuffle anyone?

You know I thought of that, but it doesn't recur and it sort of makes Gigapede suck. I'm not sure it really fits into Truffle Shuffle, but it could definitely have a deck built around it.

Oh, and you can Glittering Wish/Living Wish for it, which is cool too.

[Alfred]

You know I thought of that, but it doesn't recur and it sort of makes Gigapede suck. I'm not sure it really fits into Truffle Shuffle, but it could definitely have a deck built around it.

Oh, and you can Glittering Wish/Living Wish for it, which is cool too.

It would probably result in something more aggro-control. And you'd probably want to add other creatures too. Curving with Tarmogoyf into this is an absolute beating and a half.

I would say that you would probably want to use cheap/free disruption like Unmask/Duress/Cabal Therapy in that theoretical deck so that you could disrupt while beating down.

Chrome Mox/Birds seems really nice with it too, as getting it into play on turn 2 is just nuts. I'll probably fool around with it for a little bit, but it looks like it could be really powerful in the right deck.

[The Rack]

I like Doran but what exactly does he hose? I play Glittering Wish so I might use him instead of some other bullet. He gets Piledriver, your own Tarmogoyf, arti critters and what else?

[Alfred]

I like Doran but what exactly does he hose? I play Glittering Wish so I might use him instead of some other bullet. He gets Piledriver, your own Tarmogoyf, arti critters and what else?

Well first of all, he's an undercosted 5/5, so the ability to hose is just gravy.

He hoses Troll Ascetic somewhat, Dark Confidant somewhat and Faerie Conclaves off the top of my head.

[mikekelley]

I wouldn't really call making a 2/1 that draws you an extra card into 1/2 that still draws the same amount of cards 'hosed' by this guy.

[Alfred]

I wouldn't really call making a 2/1 that draws you an extra card into 1/2 that still draws the same amount of cards 'hosed' by this guy.


He hoses Troll Ascetic somewhat, Dark Confidant somewhat and Faerie Conclaves off the top of my head.

Besides, as I was saying earlier, you're playing him for the 5/5 for 3ness, and the ability does some nifty stuff that is just the cherry on top.

[The Rack]

But it nullifies your own critters if they have weak butts, so it's not always a good thing. A 5/5 for 3 is good nonetheless.

[Wallace]

So that thing is basically a 5/5 for 3? interesting by itself.


The white Planeswalker has my attention.

So basically it goes like this? My turn play it, gain 2 life.

Your turn, gain 2 more.

My turn again, make a Serra Avatar token? Seems good for 4 mana.

Planeswalker's abilities have to be played as a Sorcery, sorr man.

[Pinder]

I wouldn't really call making a 2/1 that draws you an extra card into 1/2 that still draws the same amount of cards 'hosed' by this guy.

QFT. Although, it makes Confidant closer to a 1/1 than a 1/2. He still has the same toughness, that just happens to be the same value you use for damage in combat, now. He still dies to Fanatic, etc.

Either way though, his base functionality (card advantage) stays the same.

[AngryTroll]

Well, that settles it. Treefolk Casual deck FTW.

1cc
Birds
Elves
3cc
Doran, the Seige Tower
Ebony Treefolk
Cradle Guard
Battlewand Oak
4cc (more like 5)
Living Terrain (+Darksteel Citadel)
5cc
Timber Guard
Weatherseed Treefolk
6cc
Nemata, Grove Guardian
Verdeloth, the Ancient

White and Black splashed give you StP and Terror, or discard, or Night's Whisper, or Engineered Plague, all sorts of things.

Of course, it's not running Tarmogoyf and a bunch of stuff to supplement it, so its not actually a competitive deck, but still...enough Treefolk to make at least a casual deck? Sweet. Treefolk made my day.

[Tacosnape]

God almighty. Between Doran and Teeg, I'll be packing BGW Survival for years to come. This is even making me want to stick Karakas in Survival.

Also, um, Slagwurm Armor on Doran, anyone?

[Nihil Credo]

Yup. My only question is how many to pack in Survival. Probably 2, going down to one Hierarch and cutting something else. Of course people will try a combo deck with Tireless Tribe and the like, but that's only a bit less vulnerable than Full English Breakfast - I'm not expecting much out of it.

The white Planeswalker screams Rabid Wombat to me. Sun Droplet + double the effect of Decree of Justice + win condition all in one. At four mana, it's damn solid.

Boggart Shenanigans... eh, I'm not that much of an expert with Goblins. It will either really suck or really shine. I'd guess that to get the latter you'd need a more "Dirty Kitty" version, with multiple Prospectors; but even without that, it will still make an awesome sideboard card.

Horner's Greed is uninteresting, pretty much worse than Skeletal Scrying in every aspect.

Now for some newly-spoiled stuff:

Brigid, Hero of Kinsbaile (2WW)
Legendary Creature - Kithkin WarriorFirst strike
T: Brigid, Hero of Kinsbaile deals 2 damage to each attacking or blocking creature.
2/3

Underpowered is the word here. I guess it's awesome against Ichorid, except for the whole costing four mana plus summoning sickness stuff.

Goldmeadow Harrier (W)

Creature - Kithkin Soldier
W, T: Tap target creature.

1/1
Don't dismiss this one. Stormscape Apprentice saw play, and this one is basically the same card (although you don't miss the second ability as much as the Wizard subtype).


Pestermite (2U)

Creature - Faerie RogueFlash
Flying
When Pestermite comes into play, you may tap or untap target permanent.
#78/3012/1
Uhmmm... I don't think it's worth running just to make Spellfumbler Sprite better.

Moonglove Winnower (3B)

Creature - Elf RogueDeathtouch
#126/3012/3
Next.

Flamekin Bladewhirl (R)

Creature - Elemental WarriorAs an additional cost to play Flamekin Bladewhirl, reveal an Elemental card from your hand or pay http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/mana3.gif.Illus. 165
2/1
Sligh may be able to run it, with Ball Lightning and either Spark Elemental or whatever new playable Flamekin we get from Lorwyn/Morningtide.

Goatnapper (2R)

Creature - Goblin RogueWhen Goatnapper comes into play, untap target Goat and gain control of it until end of turn.
It gains haste until end of turn.
#172/3012/2
This will break the format. Get four while you still can.

Shimmering Grotto

LandT: Add http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/mana1.gif to your mana pool.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/mana1.gif, T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
Didn't this already exist? Oh well, I'm not seeing it getting played over City of Brass or even Tarnished Citadel; the extra turn to wait will probably cost you more pain against aggro than the other lands.

[Maveric78f]

This card is awesome, ball lightning is just fun with him on the board.

It's good with :
- burning tree shaman
- Forgotten Ancient
- tarmogoyf
- timber protector
- Ancient Spider
- Crenellated Wall
- Leonin Abunas
- Magus of the Tabernacle
- Silent Arbiter
- Summoner's Egg
- Llanowar Augur
- Augur il-Vec
- Blazing Effigy
- Canopy Spider
- Dream Stalker
- Temple Acolyte
- Yotian Soldier

Among those cards, I like a lot the summoner's egg.

Edit : and goatnapper just looks like a UN-card.

[Meekrab]

My head is spinning. Apparently Wizards knows how to design Legacy-viable cards without breaking other formats in half. Hava nagila!

[Puzzle]

But it nullifies your own critters if they have weak butts, so it's not always a good thing. A 5/5 for 3 is good nonetheless.Why would you play cards that get "nullified" by it in the same deck and vice-versa ?

[Iranon]

Stringent colour requirements are still a problem though. Merieke Ri Berit is too awesome for words for 3 mana (assuming you have Quirion Rangers or something similar available), but is uncastable far too often.

Doran looks a tad more practical, but I'm not sure it'll be enough.

GWB aggro-control could become attractive in the near future...

Doran
Teeg
Tarmogoyf
Discard
???
Profit!

[Versus]

This guy makes that card we talked about a few pages back "Target creature becomes a 0/4 until end of turn and loses all abilities" not only viable Green removal, but also pump for your own creatures.

[nupert]

Wow, with Doran, Berserk and Rancor suck completely. Well... they give trample at least. Ill try it with Lftl, Forbidding Watchtower, Unearth and Goyf.

[Maveric78f]

I'll make a try (even if I think that Teeg belongs to the SB) :

Golden deck

Mana (26) :
4*Chrome Mox
4*birds
4*windswept
2*bloodstained
2*bayou
2*scrubland
1*Badland
1*Plateau
1*taiga
2*savannah
1*swamp
1*forest
1*plains

Discard (8) :
4*duress
4*cabal therapy

Board sweepers (10) :
4*Crime/Punishment
3*Mortify
3*Putrefy

Creatures (16) :
4*Tarmogoyf
4*Doran
4*BTS
2*Rumbling slum
2*Spiritmonger

[Barook]

Doran is awesome - interesting, good design. :smile:

I was very sceptical in the beginning, but it seems that Lorwyn turns out to be a good set with a horrible art style (and probably the gayest Swamp art ever - taste the rainbow:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=57091&d=1189662550)

[Nightmare]

Gnarles Barkley +

http://magiccards.info/mm/en/290.html
http://magiccards.info/9e/en/292.html
http://magiccards.info/9e/en/24.html
http://magiccards.info/od/en/31.html
http://magiccards.info/ps/en/82.html
http://magiccards.info/ud/en/22.html
http://magiccards.info/mi/en/277.html

[TheCramp]

I think worth pointing out he allows Birds to fly in for one. That is sweet.

Also, forbiding watchtower becomes a 5/5 man land with him around. Sort of cool. He makes Boros Swift Blade a lot better (4 colors FTL...) Lanowar Elite becomes a 3/3 for :g:. Pendlehaven become better.

[Nihil Credo]

IMO, you should just play Doran as a three-mana 5/5 that turns your BoPs into attackers. His ability isn't so broken that you should make your deck suck if you fail to find him, resolve him, and keep him in play.

[Maveric78f]

IMO, you should just play Doran as a three-mana 5/5 that turns your BoPs into attackers. His ability isn't so broken that you should make your deck suck if you fail to find him, resolve him, and keep him in play.

QFT. Thank you.

[TheCramp]

IMO, you should just play Doran as a three-mana 5/5 that turns your BoPs into attackers. His ability isn't so broken that you should make your deck suck if you fail to find him, resolve him, and keep him in play.

That would be the best Idea. I think that some cards on the fence could be pushed over. Lanowar Elite is the only one I can think of at the moment. He has the problem of being wretched against goblins. Doran has the advantage of wrecking piledriver.

Add to the list with BoP, Tarmogoyf. +1/+0 for the win...

Edit: ALSO! Sir Mix-A-Lot would be a more appropriate nickname.

I like big butts and I can not lie
You other brothers can't deny
That when a girl walks in with an itty bitty waist
And a round thing in your face
You get sprung, wanna pull out your tough
'Cause you notice that butt was stuffed
Deep in the jeans she's wearing
I'm hooked and I can't stop staring
Oh baby, I wanna get wit'cha
And take your picture
My homeboys tried to warn me
But with that butt you got makes me feel so horny
Ooh, Rump-o'-smooth-skin
You say you wanna get in my Benz?
Well, use me, use me
'Cause you ain't that average groupy
I've seen them dancin'
The hell with romancin'
She's sweat, wet,
Got it goin' like a turbo 'Vette
I'm tired of magazines
Sayin' flat butts are the thing
Take the average black man and ask him that
She gotta pack much back
So, fellas! (Yeah!) Fellas! (Yeah!)
Has your girlfriend got the butt? (Hell yeah!)
Tell 'em to shake it! (Shake it!) Shake it! (Shake it!)
Shake that healthy butt!
Baby got back!

[Nightmare]

As far as the name goes, R&D named him Gnarles Barkley, not me.

I agree though, building with him in mind is good. Building around him is bad.

Forbidding Watchtower is hot, though.

[Maveric78f]

A new card obviously very strong :

Treefolk Harbinger %G
Creature – Treefolk Shaman
When Treefolk Harbinger comes into play, search your library for a Treefolk or Forest card and reveal it, then shuffle your library and put it on top of your library.
0/3

Very very strong with Doran...

[Maveric78f]

Why Gnarles Barkley ? Because of the haircut ?

[Nightmare]

Why Gnarles Barkley ? Because of the haircut ?Because it sounds decidedly treefolk-ish?
Trees have gnarls. They also have bark.

[Wallace]

So Gnarles Barkley will be sick with this then:

Solidarity :3::w:
Instant
Creatures you control get +0/+5 until end of turn.

[Happy Gilmore]

I like how the treeflolk is another card that makes Tarmogoyf better.

[Ewokslayer]

I like how the treeflolk is another card that makes Tarmogoyf better.

Tarmogoyf's won't bounce off of each other in an orgy of love and bad-assness :frown:

[DragoFireheart]

http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/mtgcom/fcpics/latest/dl2_DorantheSiegeTower_1ksb7jpw.jpg



He'd be awesome in a Wall deck. Hell, he's awesome by himself.

And he makes Goyf bigger...

Maybe this set should be called 'Tarmogoyf"?

[Illissius]

Sweet Bowser on a tricycle, is Doran awesome. It's like this set was designed for GWB Survival. There's also that Shriekmaw card everyone's forgotten about. I don't think there's a possible way to fit all these awesome cards in 60 any more. Chrome Mox seems pretty appealing, for getting Gaddock out on the first turn against those stupid combo decks, and it also has nice interactions with Gaddock and Doran, alleviating their Legendary drawback while making many colors.

[edgewalker]

Everyone has said everything there is to say about the actual card... but what about the art. Call me gay, but I think a lot of the artwork I've seen for this set has been really good. I really like Doran the most so far, I think Mark Zug is one of the better current artists doing cards.

[Nightmare]

Everyone has said everything there is to say about the actual card... but what about the art. Call me gay, but I think a lot of the artwork I've seen for this set has been really good. I really like Doran the most so far, I think Mark Zug is one of the better current artists doing cards.People are upset by the art. Mostly because there isn't a lot of "Random mage swirling lightning and light" stuff. I like it. It seems to get back to the roots (No pun intended) of the game's artwork a lot more.

[DragoFireheart]

People are upset by the art. Mostly because there isn't a lot of "Random mage swirling lightning and light" stuff. I like it. It seems to get back to the roots (No pun intended) of the game's artwork a lot more.

You mean that fairy carebear art? I mean, look at the damn swamps! If I didn't know any better the zombies that live there [if any do] would probably hug me to death.

Too much cuddly.

[zulander]

Doran is awesome - interesting, good design. :smile:

I was very sceptical in the beginning, but it seems that Lorwyn turns out to be a good set with a horrible art style (and probably the gayest Swamp art ever - taste the rainbow:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=57091&d=1189662550)

I don't believe that swamp is from llorwyn, look at the set sign and the card/set numbers are off as well.

[Happy Gilmore]

seems to me that Karakas is better and better with this set.

[TheCramp]

Forbidding Watchtower is hot, though.

Thanks, I thought so.

Wren's Run Vanquisher is perhaps a legacy playable card.

:1::g: Creature - Elf Warrior Uncommon
As an additional cost to play Wren's Run Vanquisher, reveal an Elf card from your hand or pay :3:
Deathtouch
3/3

We will have to see what else this elf revisit brings us, because this cat is hot on his own. Way better than rotting giant and even watchwolf. (once in play... the over all deck that supports him may be much worse. I realize that in advance.)

[Wallace]

Bunch of new cards up:

Militia's Pride :1::w:
Tribal Enchantment - Kithkin
Whenever a nontoken creature you control attacks, you may pay . If you do, put a 1/1 white Kithkin Soldier creature token into play tapped and attacking.

Think this on may be good somewhere!!

Boggart Birth Rite :b:
Tribal Sorcery - Goblin
Return target Goblin card from your graveyard to your hand.


Surge of Thoughtweft :w:
Tribal Instant - Kithkin
Creatures you control get +1/+1 until end of turn.
If you control a Kithkin, draw a card.


Hunter of Eyeblights :3::b: 3/3
Creature - Elf Assassin
When Hunter of Eyeblights comes into play,put a +1/+1 counter on target creature you don't control.
:2::b:, : destroy target creature with a counter on it.


Wren's Run Vanquisher :1::g: 3/3
Creature - Elf Warrior
As an additional cost to play Wren's Run Vanquisher, reveal an Elf card from your hand or pay
Deathtouch

This guy seems real good!

[Wallace]

Elvish Promenade :3::g:
Tribal Sorcery - Elf
Put a 1/1 green elf warrior creature token into play for each elf you control.


Wow!


Immaculate Magistrate :3::g: 2/2

Creature - Elf Shaman
T:Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature for each Elf you control.


Kithkin Daggerdare :1::g: 1/1
Creature - Kithkin Soldier
:g:, T : Target attacking creature gets +2/+2 until end of turn.


Broken Ambitions X:u:
Instant
Counter target spell unless its controller pays .
Clash with an opponent. If you win, that spell’s controller puts the top four cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard.(Each clashing player reveals the top card of his or her library then puts that card on the top or bottom. A player wins if his or her card had a higher
converted mana cost)


Needle Drop :r:
Instant
Needle Drop deals 1 damage to target creature or player that was dealt damage this turn.
Draw a card.

[Pinder]

A lot more spoiled cards over at MTGSal:

Boggart Birth Rite :b:
Tribal Sorcery - Goblin
Return target Goblin card from your graveyard to your hand.
Common

Final Revels :4::b:
Sorcery
Choose one – All creatures get +2/+0 until end of turn, or all creatures get -0/-2 until end of turn.
Uncommon

Militia's Pride :1::w:
Tribal Enchantment - Kithkin
Whenever a nontoken creature you control attacks, you may pay {W}. If you do, put a 1/1 white Kithkin Soldier creature token into play tapped and attacking.
Rare

Springjack Knight :2::w:
Creature - Kithkin Knight
Whenever Springjack Knight Attacks, clash with an opponent. If you win, target creature gains double strike until end of turn. (Each clashing player reveals the top card of his or her library then puts that card on the top or bottom. A player wins if his or her card had a higher converted mana cost)
2/1
Common

Plover Knights :3::w::w:
Creature - Kithkin Knight
Flying
First strike
3/3
Common

Surge of Thoughtweft :w:
Tribal Instant - Kithkin
Creatures you control get +1/+1 until end of turn.
If you control a Kithkin, draw a card.
Common

[Pinder]

Double post because the board will only let me use 11 mana symbols per post:


Entangling Trap :1::w:
Enchantment
Whenever you clash, tap target creature an opponent controls. If you win, that creature doesn’t untap during its controller’s next untap step.
Uncommon

Goldmeadow Dodger :w:
Creature - Kithkin Rogue
Goldmeadow Dodger can’t be blocked by creatures with power 4 or greater.
1/1
Common

Hunter of Eyeblights :3::b::b:
Creature - Elf Assassin
When Hunter of Eyeblights comes into play,put a +1/+1 counter on target creature you don't control.
:2::b:, :T:: destroy target creature with a counter on it.
3/3
Uncommon

Elvish Promenade :3::g:
Tribal Sorcery - Elf
Put a 1/1 green elf warrior creature token into play for each elf you control.
Uncommon

[Pinder]

gogo Triple Post!


Immaculate Magistrate :3::g:
Creature - Elf Shaman
:T::Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature for each Elf you control.
2/2
Rare

Kithkin Daggerdare :1::g:
Creature - Kithkin Soldier
:g:, T: Target attacking creature gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
1/1
Common

Wild Richochet :2::r::r:
Instant
You may choose new targets for target instant or sorcery spell. Then copy that spell. You may choose new targets for the copy.
Rare

Needle Drop :r:
Instant Needle Drop deals 1 damage to target creature or player that was dealt damage this turn.
Draw a card.
Common

Broken Ambitions :x::u:
Instant
Counter target spell unless its controller pays :X:.
Clash with an opponent. If you win, that spell’s controller puts the top four cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard.(Each clashing player reveals the top card of his or her library then puts that card on the top or bottom. A player wins if his or her card had a higher converted mana cost)
Common

[Barook]

I don't believe that swamp is from llorwyn, look at the set sign and the card/set numbers are off as well.

I should have known that there is always someone who is bitching. :rolleyes:

This isn't the actual card image, only a self-made version by somebody on MtgSalvation, using the art from yesterday's "Taste the Magic"-article, to see how the Swamp will look like.

And I have to agree with DragoFireheart: They try to be too cute in many artworks, especially when Kithkin are involved. That doesn't mean all art is bad (I really like Doran's art), but things like that Swamp are really overdoing it.

Back to topic:

Wren's Run Vanquisher is quite good - 3/3 for :1::g: without any relevant drawback is already very nice, but Deathtouch is just the icing on the cake because it can trade with Tarmogofy.
Plus, the extra cost is only relevant when you actually play him from your hand. Hello, Aether Vial!

[Kundalini]

I don't know if I am reading wrong or just confused... but... didn't anybody noticed how potentially powerful this spell can be:

Needle drop R instant 1 damage +1 card

(!!!)

Apart from the obvious uses (tarmo-tarmo fights, finish off fatties with more burn, etc.) it is a great addition to any burn (mono-red, sligh, RDW) deck. Just think all those burn decks that pack baubles and street wraiths to cantrip into quality burn... why not cantripping some more while dealing damage in the process? "been damaged this turn" is not a big drawback since it is an instant... so... as soon as you deal some damage to the dome, spend R and draw a card dealing 1 in the while...

and it is a COMMON...


As it wasn't enough... I've just noticed this TARFIRE... another one... a goblin shock... mmmm... ok maybe it is not so good as it seems... but... hey were goblin decks not running burn because those spells are NOT goblins? Problem solved.

[Nihil Credo]

Militia's Pride :1::w:
Tribal Enchantment - Kithkin
Whenever a nontoken creature you control attacks, you may pay {W}. If you do, put a 1/1 white Kithkin Soldier creature token into play tapped and attacking.

This is my favourite card from the new batch. Pair this one with a Mishra's Factory and you can have a creatureless deck that can actually make a lot of power fairly quickly.

[Barook]

I don't know if I am reading wrong or just confused... but... didn't anybody noticed how potentially powerful this spell can be:

Needle drop R instant 1 damage +1 card

(!!!)

Apart from the obvious uses (tarmo-tarmo fights, finish off fatties with more burn, etc.) it is a great addition to any burn (mono-red, sligh, RDW) deck. Just think all those burn decks that pack baubles and street wraiths to cantrip into quality burn... why not cantripping some more while dealing damage in the process? "been damaged this turn" is not a big drawback since it is an instant... so... as soon as you deal some damage to the dome, spend R and draw a card dealing 1 in the while...

and it is a COMMON...

I think you are overrating this card a bit. You fail to realize that those decks run the Baubles and Wraiths for free cantripping.

Sure, the card isn't bad, but it really doesn't strike me as a "OMGWTFBBQHAX!"-card.

[Tacosnape]

God help us all, Vial Elves might start getting played.


Sweet Bowser on a tricycle, is Doran awesome. It's like this set was designed for GWB Survival. There's also that Shriekmaw card everyone's forgotten about. I don't think there's a possible way to fit all these awesome cards in 60 any more. Chrome Mox seems pretty appealing, for getting Gaddock out on the first turn against those stupid combo decks, and it also has nice interactions with Gaddock and Doran, alleviating their Legendary drawback while making many colors.

I laughed for like a minute straight at "Sweet Bowser on a Tricycle." I'm going to start using that.

But believe me, as someone with a GWB Survival deck sitting in his box, I am ecstatic about Lorwyn. At the moment, my Survival Build post-Lorwyn looks kinda like this:

4 Bayou
4 Savannah
2 Scrubland
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
4 Forest

4 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Survival of the Fittest

4 Birds of Paradise
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Eternal Witness
3 Doran, The Siege Tower
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Genesis
1 Shriekmaw
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Darkheart Sliver
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Loaming Shaman
1 Mystic Enforcer

SB:
4 Engineered Plague
4 Pernicious Deed
3 Extirpate
2 Pithing Needle
2 Gaddock Teeg

EDIT: As a side note, Doran is going to be INSANE in type 2 with Forbidding Watchtower. Zomg.

[DragoFireheart]

God help us all, Vial Elves might start getting played.



I laughed for like a minute straight at "Sweet Bowser on a Tricycle." I'm going to start using that.

But believe me, as someone with a GWB Survival deck sitting in his box, I am ecstatic about Lorwyn. At the moment, my Survival Build post-Lorwyn looks kinda like this:

4 Bayou
4 Savannah
2 Scrubland
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
4 Forest

4 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Survival of the Fittest

4 Birds of Paradise
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Eternal Witness
3 Doran, The Siege Tower
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Genesis
1 Shriekmaw
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Darkheart Sliver
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Loaming Shaman
1 Mystic Enforcer

SB:
4 Engineered Plague
4 Pernicious Deed
3 Extirpate
2 Pithing Needle
2 Gaddock Teeg

That looks really sick. That damn tree is gonna cause so many problems.

[morgan_coke]

I think i'm alone on this one, but in Survival, I really, really like an Oversold Cemetery or three. I know its not a tutorable creature, but it just does some evil, evil things with Evoke creatures. I'm pretty sure there will be more useful ones than just Shriekmaw in this set.

[Versus]

Wow, blacks getting dicker over so far!

This would have been playable if it were :2: cheaper. Jerks!


Final Revels
Sorcery
Choose one – All creatures get +2/+0 until end of turn, or all creatures get -0/-2 until end of turn.
Uncommon

[Barook]

Wow, blacks getting dicker over so far!

This would have been playable if it were :2: cheaper. Jerks!

You forgot to add :4::b: as its casting cost...



God help us all, Vial Elves might start getting played.

Well, Skyshroud Elite and the Vanquisher are really decent aggro drops. Wirewood Symbiote should be fun with Vial, too. There might be potential if the print enough other good Elfs...

[Tacosnape]

Well, Skyshroud Elite and the Vanquisher are really decent aggro drops. Wirewood Symbiote should be fun with Vial, too. There might be potential if the print enough other good Elfs...

Don't forget Elves have a Ringleader, too.

[Barook]

Don't forget Elves have a Ringleader, too.

Which has Trample instead the far more useful Haste...

The new, toking producing Elvish Champion could be decent as well in such a deck. Same for Tribal Forcemage once Priest of Titania is going to whore herself out for green mana.

Anyway, with all this Doran talk, I wonder why nobody has mentioned this guy so far:

Treefolk Harbinger :g:
Creature – Treefolk Shaman
When Treefolk Harbinger comes into play, search your library for a Treefolk or Forest (hi, duals!) card and reveal it, then shuffle your library and put it on top of your library.
0/3

[TheCramp]

Treefolk Harbinger :g:
Creature – Treefolk Shaman
When Treefolk Harbinger comes into play, search your library for a Treefolk or Forest (hi, duals!) card and reveal it, then shuffle your library and put it on top of your library.
0/3

Someone did, but they miffed the CC and made it seem like threre was some colorless cost there. Thats pretty good, to be sure. Mana fixing and anti-lackey wall.

I wonder if this is what Rosewater was talking about when he said their would be a cycle of cards that reflect a "popular visions cycle." A man/tutor cycle could be interesting.

[Barook]

I wonder if this is what Rosewater was talking about when he said their would be a cycle of cards that reflect a "popular visions cycle." A man/tutor cycle could be interesting.

It was Mirage, not Visions, and it will be a full cycle of Charms, however, with higher costs, and a 2-out-of-4 choice - just like this:

http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/mtgcom/fcpics/swimming/mf163_CrypticCommand_yxsgjij5.jpg

Edit: To quote someone from the RumorMill about the Harbinger:

The treefolk harbinger is highly playable. Turn one, harbinger for another harbinger. Turn two, harbinger for Doran. Turn three, Doran, beat for 6. Turn four, beat for 11. 17 damage by turn four off the back of a single one drop. This is ridiculously strong.

[Tacosnape]

If the cost of the 0/3 Treefolk turns out to really be a single Green, then that warrants consideration over Birds of Paradise in BGW Survival. It wouldn't be as fast, but the mana boost would be permanent which Survival loves, it blocks Lackey which Survival loves, and it has ridiculous synergy in fetching Doran and then turning into a 3/3 Beatstick under Doran's watch.

I seriously doubt it'll stay as being a single green, however. That's far too strong a card for one green mana and would be in strong competition for being the best card in the set.

[Iranon]

Excuse me if I'm misunderstanding something... but which mana boost? It just ensures hitting land drops, which is nice enough.

[TheCramp]

If the cost of the 0/3 Treefolk turns out to really be a single Green, then that warrants consideration over Birds of Paradise in BGW Survival. It wouldn't be as fast, but the mana boost would be permanent which Survival loves, it blocks Lackey which Survival loves, and it has ridiculous synergy in fetching Doran and then turning into a 3/3 Beatstick under Doran's watch.

I seriously doubt it'll stay as being a single green, however. That's far too strong a card for one green mana and would be in strong competition for being the best card in the set.

So Tacosnape, if it stays @ :g: and you make that switch, would you consider playing Timber Protector? If ever there was a set up for that cat, the one you just described is it...

[iOWN]

On Hoarder's Greed, it says "repeat this process". Does this just mean "draw two more cards and lose two more life"? Or does it mean, repeat that, and then clash again?

If it's the second one, that's some insane card advantage...

[Tacosnape]

On Hoarder's Greed, it says "repeat this process". Does this just mean "draw two more cards and lose two more life"? Or does it mean, repeat that, and then clash again?

If it's the second one, that's some insane card advantage...

I have no idea. I initially took it to mean Clash again, but now I don't think it does.


So Tacosnape, if it stays @ :g: and you make that switch, would you consider playing Timber Protector? If ever there was a set up for that cat, the one you just described is it...

No. There isn't a creature that's acceptable to play in Legacy for 5 mana unless you can cheat him into play (Siege-Gang Commander) or it has another use altogether (Genesis). Protector will be good in Standard. It won't be good in Legacy.

Why would I want the Protector, though? Not only is he 5 mana, if I have a horde of Treefolk in play, I'm either A - Winning, or B - unable to attack due to some other circumstance (Like Ghostly Prison, for instance.) Treefolk are pretty hard to kill anyway with toughness 3 and 5 respectively, and with 5 mana I can be Genesis'ing and Replaying a Tarmogoyf every turn.

It's also worth noting that the top two ways to stop a creature in Legacy still stop Timber Protector: Swords to Plowshares and Countermagic.


Excuse me if I'm misunderstanding something... but which mana boost? It just ensures hitting land drops, which is nice enough.

It's a boost in card advantage, not tempo. Perhaps boost wasn't the best word. You get a land that you wouldn't have otherwise.

While not as blindingly fast in the acceleration department as Bird, this guy increases how many land you have permanently, which is a good thing, and also stalls for time very well as an 0/3. That and the ability to tutor up ridiculous 5/5's will make him highly considerable, but the curve of the deck will have to drop and eliminate most everything that costs more than 3 mana to cast. (Although that lone Mystic Enforcer can be very leet, it may not make the cut, and Hierarch'll be gone for Darkheart Sliver or reduced to 1.)

Make it noteworthy that if this guy costs :1::g: and not :g:, he'll go from arguably better than Birds of Paradise to completely unplayable in Legacy (But still awesome in Standard, which is why I think he'll be :1::g:.)

It's also worth noting that the top target for this guy is very often going to be himself, not a land or Doran. This makes him almost as ludicrous with Therapy as Birds of Paradise.

[Nihil Credo]

Ehm, the Harbinger puts the tutored land or Treefolk on top of your library. Hence no card advantage, and while I love me some Lackey blocker I'm not going to drop my BoPs for him.

[Mijorre]

You're all forgetting the important things here...

Goatnapper

Creature - Goblin Rogue 2r
When Goatnapper comes into play, untap target Goat and gain control of it until end of turn.
It gains haste until end of turn.
2/2


There goes my Zodiac Goat tech.
Goblins! You failed me for the last time!

[Illissius]

I laughed for like a minute straight at "Sweet Bowser on a Tricycle." I'm going to start using that.

This is actually an option in Mario Kart DS. No lies.

[kabal]

** New Card **

Nova Hunter (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=57181&d=1189826781) 3r
Creature - Elemental Warrior Rare
Trample
Champion an Elemental (When this comes into play, sacrifice it unless you remove another Elemental you control from the game. When this leaves play, return that card to play.)
Illus. Dan Scott #187/301 10/2

[Wynk]

Spoiled by Hydrokenesis:

Jace Beleren

Planeswalker - Jace
+2: Each player draws a card
-1: Target player draws a card
-10: Put the top 20 cards of target player's library in to his or her graveyard.
Loyalty: 3
Rare.

I can't complain. Its the cheapest planeswalker, and it draws cards into infinity, benefiting your opponent once every 3 turns or so.

[iOWN]

Mosswort Bridge
Land

Hideaway (this land comes into play tapped. When it does, look at the top 4 cards of your library, remove one from the game face down, then put the rest on the bottom of your library.)
Tap: Add g to your mana pool.
:g:,Tap: You may play the removed card without paying its mana cost if creatures you control have total power 10 or greater.
Rare.

This looks so cool. And it can even be... fueled by 'Goyf!

Edit: Jace looks pretty decent compared to the other walkers. Her last ability is terrible, but the one card per turn seems worth it.

[DragoFireheart]

Jace Beleren 1UU
Planeswalker - Jace
+2: Each player draws a card.
-1: Target player draws a card.
-10: Put the top 20 cards of target player's library in to his or her graveyard.
Loyalty: 3

Wow.

[Aggro_zombies]

Jace Beleren 1UU
Planeswalker - Jace
+2: Each player draws a card.
-1: Target player draws a card.
-10: Put the top 20 cards of target player's library in to his or her graveyard.
Loyalty: 3

Wow.
This might actually be Legacy playable in a slower control deck where you'll have time to bury your opponent under loads of card advantage. I'm interested.

[Lemuria]

I can't see this guy in any deck right now.

To be fair enough, I didn't like him very much

[Jak]

This guy draws you 2 cards a turn. I think it would be fantastic in a blue control deck. Just something with a shitload of counters and counter everything like the good old days.

[Wynk]

This guy draws you one card a turn. I'm sure you can only use the ability as a sorcery and one ability each turn. Still its your own personal howling mine for 2 out of 3 turns, and draws you and your opponent a card on the 3rd turn. Burn will eat him alive, but even if he only uses his -1 ability until he dies, its 3 cards for 3 mana over 3 turns.

Is this set made for Legacy? This is the first set in recent memory where I look at almost ALL the spoiled cards and say, this is almost playable...

And some cards I say, MUST get 4....

This is going to be bad on my wallet.

[Bane of the Living]

This guy draws you one card a turn. I'm sure you can only use the ability as a sorcery and one ability each turn. Still its your own personal howling mine for 2 out of 3 turns, and draws you and your opponent a card on the 3rd turn. Burn will eat him alive, but even if he only uses his -1 ability until he dies, its 3 cards for 3 mana over 3 turns.

Is this set made for Legacy? This is the first set in recent memory where I look at almost ALL the spoiled cards and say, this is almost playable...

And some cards I say, MUST get 4....

This is going to be bad on my wallet.

Alot of set releases feel that way but the playables will probably be slim to none. The 5/5 treefolk is only a cute trick against goyfs that can now reach stupid levels thanks to Tarfire. His hinderance will start to show itself when your realizing all the new cards your getting from Lorowyn suck compared to the goyf.

Honestly nothing in this set has excited me too much aside from Ponder and Gaddock.

[Versus]

Jace>Bolt>Tarmogoyf gets bigger

The Loyalty on that one just seems too low.

edit: Oh, you can use that first ability immediately I guess.

[Wynk]

Alot of set releases feel that way but the playables will probably be slim to none. The 5/5 treefolk is only a cute trick against goyfs that can now reach stupid levels thanks to Tarfire. His hinderance will start to show itself when your realizing all the new cards your getting from Lorowyn suck compared to the goyf.

Honestly nothing in this set has excited me too much aside from Ponder and Gaddock.

lol. You're right about their only being a few competitive playables in the set. But those ones are strong. Also, I like the tribal them of the set. Comparing nearly any creature to a goyf to determine quality is just setting yourself up for failure though. ie. Hamburger vs. steak.

Now we all know steak is good, and most people find it very enjoyable. A normal burger just doesn't compare. But that not to say a burger isn't good in and of itself.

Comparing every creature to tarmogoyf will ruin your appreciation for some fairly solid cards. Not everything is competitive. I have a casual elf deck and am excited to include several new elf cards not named Elfagoyf.

Gaddock is great for G/W. Ponders nice. Oblivion ring is solid flexible removal. Charms are expensive but I like the flexability. The 0/5 treefolk legend is fun, though hard to cast. Most of the other cards are built for standard use, but the set has some nice legacy playables.

[technogeek5000]

Lol i just thought of something reely cool for the tree dude. You could run like 4 ornithopters and 4 phyrexian walkers so if this guy comes out you have 4 free 2/2 flyers and 4 free 3/3. To bad shield sphere is a wall or a deck like this could be ridiculous.

[Nihil Credo]

We may have just received a playable Incarnation... even though it would have to be played in a terrible deck, i.e. MUC. Or another control deck with at least, say, 14-15 counterspells.

Guile

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/mana3.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gif Creature - Elemental Incarnationhttp://mtgsalvation.com/images/spoiler/lorwyn-rare.gifGuile can't be blocked except by three or more creatures.
If a spell or ability you control would counter a spell, instead remove that spell from the game and you may play that card without paying its mana cost.
When guile is put into a graveyard from anywhere, shuffle it into its owner's library.

6/6

[Goaswerfraiejen]

We may have just received a playable Incarnation... even though it would have to be played in a terrible deck, i.e. MUC. Or another control deck with at least, say, 14-15 counterspells.

Guile

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/mana3.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gif Creature - Elemental Incarnationhttp://mtgsalvation.com/images/spoiler/lorwyn-rare.gifGuile can't be blocked except by three or more creatures.
If a spell or ability you control would counter a spell, instead remove that spell from the game and you may play that card without paying its mana cost.
When guile is put into a graveyard from anywhere, shuffle it into its owner's library.

6/6


I saw that. If it were 4UU instead of 3UUU, I'd be trying to work with it. :tongue:

It seems ridiculous but, as you said, it's a toughie.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Jace in Landstill? Continual card advantage that helps in the mirror.

[C.P.]

Jace seems like the long awaited sub for ophidian in MUC. 3 for 1 all day? Seems OK, at least.

[Versus]

Can you play the removed card for free as many times as you want? I mean once you remove something from the game you can't remove it even further or does it simply go to the Yard now? Either that or you could counter you own Counterspell and then play it over and over again for free.

edit: yeah, that would be ridiculous. It should say "once removed card is played it goes _______". Maybe it's just implied and I'm stupid.

[TheCramp]

We may Or another control deck with at least, say, 14-15 counterspells.

Guile
If a spell or ability you control...


Counterballance, for example, would work here.

[Bane of the Living]

Lol i just thought of something reely cool for the tree dude. You could run like 4 ornithopters and 4 phyrexian walkers so if this guy comes out you have 4 free 2/2 flyers and 4 free 3/3. To bad shield sphere is a wall or a deck like this could be ridiculous.

Standard has Stuffy Doll.

Im not saying there arent good cards in the set but as far as legacy is concerned only about 5 card are released per set that are worth playing.

Im actually more excited about stuffing cards into my type four deck. Incarnations, Planswalkers, ect..

[georgjorge]

sylvan echoes G

enchantment(uncommon)
whenever you clash and win, you may draw a card(this ability resolves after the clash)


There are some pretty decent cards building on the Clash mechanic...these could be enhanced with something as simple as Portent/Ponder, Brainstorm, Top, Scroll Rack, which are all great cards on their own. But we'll have to see how many playable Clash cards there are...