Make this work!

[Peter_Rotten]

Here's a new card:

Shields of Velis Vel
:w:
Tribal Instant - Shapeshifter
Changeling (This card is every creature type even if this card isn't in play.)
Creatures target player controls get +0/+1 and gain all creature types until end of turn.

Here's the situation that I want to work: (I intentionally left controllers out of the situation so that we can manipulate it.)

There are a number of 1/1 soldier tokens in play.
There is an Engineered Plague in play naming Goblins.
A player casts the above instant targeting the tokens' controller.

Is there any possible way that Shields of Velis Vel can be used to kill those tokens?

[Barook]

No

State-based effects are only checked after the spell resolved and in that case, the Soldiers are already 1/2 before the Plague can kick in immediately to make them 0/1.

[Anusien]

No

State-based effects are only checked after the spell resolved and in that case, the Soldiers are already 1/2 before the Plague can kick in immediately to make them 0/1.
It's worth noting that the creatures are never 1/2. They are 1/1 before the resolution of the spell, and 0/1 afterwards.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Hmmm i think this could work in my jank-zubera deck! I play 5 colors some sweepers like EE and powder keg.

So could i use this card to gain advantage from the creaturs of my opponent?

[DeathwingZERO]

Hmmm i think this could work in my jank-zubera deck! I play 5 colors some sweepers like EE and powder keg.

So could i use this card to gain advantage from the creaturs of my opponent?

If you are playing Zubera style, yes. Same as their creatures gaining abilities from opposing Slivers, for example.

[Ewokslayer]

Here's a new card:

Shields of Velis Vel
:w:
Tribal Instant - Shapeshifter
Changeling (This card is every creature type even if this card isn't in play.)
Creatures target player controls get +0/+1 and gain all creature types until end of turn.

Here's the situation that I want to work: (I intentionally left controllers out of the situation so that we can manipulate it.)

There are a number of 1/1 soldier tokens in play.
There is an Engineered Plague in play naming Goblins.
A player casts the above instant targeting the tokens' controller.

Is there any possible way that Shields of Velis Vel can be used to kill those tokens?


Ok, To make this work you have to
1) Cast Shields of Velis Vel, turning all the 1/1 Soldiers into 0/1 Changelings.
2) Cast Mannichi, the Fevered Dream
3) Activate its ability.

[Nightmare]

Without the use of additional cards, this is not a :w: Wrath of Goblins.

[Pinder]

Same as their creatures gaining abilities from opposing Slivers, for example.

Oh yeah, I'm just thrilled to see all this changeling stuff. You mean Goblins that are also Slivers? Sweet!

:rolleyes:

Some of them might be playable in a Sliver deck, but most of them will probably just be used by other tribal decks against Slivers.

Why does Wizards hate me?

Oh, and on the same note, Crystalline Sliver (http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=5134)'s Oracle text hasn't been errata'd to only work for permanents. Does this mean that if there is a Crystalline in play, this spell is untargetable, and therefore nigh uncounterable (outside of Counterbalance shenanigans or something)? The reason I ask is because Shroud doesn't keep the Sliver creatures for being countered. Will it end up that Shroud on a spell is just a useless byproduct because it has no effect while the spell is on the stack?

[TrialByFire]

I'm pretty sure Shroud only works while the card is in play, but I could be wrong

[Ewokslayer]

Oh, and on the same note, Crystalline Sliver (http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=5134)'s Oracle text hasn't been errata'd to only work for permanents. Does this mean that if there is a Crystalline in play, this spell is untargetable, and therefore nigh uncounterable (outside of Counterbalance shenanigans or something)? The reason I ask is because Shroud doesn't keep the Sliver creatures for being countered. Will it end up that Shroud on a spell is just a useless byproduct because it has no effect while the spell is on the stack?


You can counter Crystalline Sliver and it has shroud, so why do you think you wouldn't be able to counter anything else with shroud?

[Pinder]

You can counter Crystalline Sliver and it has shroud, so why do you think you wouldn't be able to counter anything else with shroud?

You're probably right, I was just curious to see how Shroud interacts with nonpermanent spells, because instants and sorceries have never had Shroud before. It probably does nothing.


Quick Sliver, though totally lets you play Changeling Sorceries at instant speed. w00t.

edit:

502.36a Shroud is a static ability. "Shroud" means "This permanent or player can't be the target of spells or abilities."


Yay for answering your own questions.

[Tacosnape]

Here's a new card:

Shields of Velis Vel
:w:
Tribal Instant - Shapeshifter
Changeling (This card is every creature type even if this card isn't in play.)
Creatures target player controls get +0/+1 and gain all creature types until end of turn.

Here's the situation that I want to work: (I intentionally left controllers out of the situation so that we can manipulate it.)

There are a number of 1/1 soldier tokens in play.
There is an Engineered Plague in play naming Goblins.
A player casts the above instant targeting the tokens' controller.

Is there any possible way that Shields of Velis Vel can be used to kill those tokens?

It's worth noting if by some fluke this didn't already occur to you that this works if there's two Engineered Plagues in play.

It's also worth noting that it's completely irrelevant what the Plague is on.

It's -also- worth noting that this + Tivadar's Crusade = complicated Wrath of God.

...Also, if something gains a creature type that it already has, that isn't cumulative, is it? Like, just for shits and giggles, the Soldier tokens wouldn't have Soldier twice, i assume?

[Anusien]

You can counter Crystalline Sliver and it has shroud, so why do you think you wouldn't be able to counter anything else with shroud?
Probably because Crystalline Sliver only has shroud while in play?

In answer to your question, things are not Slivers while not in play. They are Sliver cards. If you can put a Sliver Sorcery into play (you can't) it would be untargetable.

[Watcher487]

You can counter Crystalline Sliver and it has shroud, so why do you think you wouldn't be able to counter anything else with shroud?

Root Sliver folks, ROOT SLIVER.
Rules Text (Oracle): Root Sliver can't be countered. Sliver spells can't be countered.

[Pinder]

Root Sliver folks, ROOT SLIVER.
Rules Text (Oracle): Root Sliver can't be countered. Sliver spells can't be countered.

Right, but Root Sliver costs 4, and sucks. There are way better ways to make sure spells resolve.

[iOWN]

It's -also- worth noting that this + Tivadar's Crusade = complicated Wrath of God.

This + Suleiman's Legacy = weird Wrath of God.

[Cait_Sith]

...Also, if something gains a creature type that it already has, that isn't cumulative, is it? Like, just for shits and giggles, the Soldier tokens wouldn't have Soldier twice, i assume?

If it had soldier eleventy billion times it would still get only -1/-1 from one Engineered Plague.

[Pinder]

If it had soldier eleventy billion times it would still get only -1/-1 from one Engineered Plague.

Actually, if a card changes one creature type to another it completely wipes out any previous creature types (unless it says 'in addition to it's other types').

So Shield of Velis Vel would actually erase all creature types the creatures may have previously had, then gives them every creature type.

[Ridiculous Hat]

Actually, if a card changes one creature type to another it completely wipes out any previous creature types (unless it says 'in addition to it's other types').

So Shield of Velis Vel would actually erase all creature types the creatures may have previously had, then gives them every creature type.So I can't make my Ringleader a Creature - Goblin Goblin Goblin Goblin?

[Nihil Credo]

The only reason I can think of for not having Crystalline Sliver say "permanent" is that there can be a Sliver player (the only other object that can get shroud). Maybe this is a twist for Morningtide, or even the 2008 mini-block?