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Wallace
10-18-2007, 04:53 PM
I was looking at a Thread asking why black isn't a top teir deck. I thought I would try and throw a list together useing all of the :b: discard spells played in Legacy. Here it is:

4 x Duress
4 x Thoughtseize
4 x Cabal Therapy
4 x Hymn to Tourach
4 x Smother
4 x Dark Ritual

4 x Dark Confidant
4 x Tarmogoyf
4 x Nimble Mongoose
4 x Nantuko Shade
2 x Withered Wretch

4 x Bayou
4 x Bloodstained Mire
1 x Volrath's Stronghold
9 x Swamp

I don't like to post SB's cuz SB's should be mad to fit your meta. Krosan Grip, E. Plague and Chains should all be included though.

lolosoon
10-18-2007, 05:06 PM
I don't want to be rude to you, but maybe you could have a look HERE (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6681&highlight=green+death) and discuss your build over the ones posted in the GreenDeath Topic.

Still, too many discard pieces, too few board control imho.

boris13
10-18-2007, 08:30 PM
If your going to make a discard deck. I would try and put the rack in as a way to kill your opponet faster.

Skinny Oprah
10-18-2007, 08:34 PM
i don't think any greendeath type deck will ever be as brutal as reddeath, you just lack the board control really :/

technogeek5000
10-18-2007, 08:52 PM
red death isnt nearly as good as it was with the arrival of goyf. Also whats with the lack of pernic deed. This deck is a contol deck, no? i would cut some creatures for deed (do you realy need wretch).

Cavius The Great
10-19-2007, 11:01 AM
I say put the Wretches in the SB, add Living Wish, make a wishboard and run Pernicious Deed maindecked. With a wishboard you can run stuff like Boneshedder, Viridian Zealot, uktabi orangutan, even stuff like Rackling, which would be really cool.

Wallace
10-19-2007, 11:17 AM
If your going to make a discard deck. I would try and put the rack in as a way to kill your opponet faster.

The discard in this deck is not intended to make my opponents hand size 3 or less. It is more spot removal of key cards in there hands. The rack is no really a viable card in Legacy due to the card draw that most decks play.


I say put the Wretches in the SB, add Living Wish, make a wishboard and run Pernicious Deed maindecked. With a wishboard you can run stuff like Boneshedder, Viridian Zealot, uktabi orangutan, even stuff like Rackling, which would be really cool.

I like this idea, I may give it a try.

Cavius The Great
10-19-2007, 11:31 AM
Other cool stuff you can put in your wishboard that I forgot to mention, maze of ith (nobody really runs wasteland anymore), Dust Bowl, Overgrown Tomb (turns Living Wish into a mana accelerant), Molder Slug (good with rituals), Xantid Swarm, Dosan the Falling Leaf, Nekrataal, Mesmeric Fiend, Grave-shell Scarab, gigapeede, the list just goes on and on.

I'd probably would just cut it down to 9 or 10 and dedicate that amount of slots to the wishboard. I say 5-6 slots should be standard metagame cards. Let me give you an example.

1 Rackling
1 Viridian Zealot
1 Uktabi Orangutan
1 Bone Shredder
1 Withered Wretch
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Dust Bowl
1 Maze of Ith
1 Grave-shell Scarab
6 (open slots)

Your wishboard should look something like this. I think that the open slots should probably be a 3/3 split of your most important metagame slots but that's just my opinion. Let me know what you think of the wishboard. Peace.

EDIT: run 3-4 Living Wish if you decide to go with this wishboard.

monkeyfeelers
10-19-2007, 12:13 PM
Seems like a bad plan all around. Duress+ hyme + cabal + thought seize is far to many discard spells. Sure you get some early disruption, pretty much always but once they have a threat you've got like smother , and uhhhh uhhhhh chumping tarmagoyf is good for chumping but the rest of your dudes will eat it to any good threats. Also how fast do you get goose to thresh, i see no way for goose to become big in a reasonable amount of time.
So say you've removed all the relevant cards in your opponents hand, then they draw a good one, and they play it, and you sit there looking silly with double discard dead in your hand.
Well, those be my thoughts look at greendeath threads their strategy seems fundamentally better.

Cavius The Great
10-19-2007, 12:31 PM
Seems like a bad plan all around. Duress+ hyme + cabal + thought seize is far to many discard spells. Sure you get some early disruption, pretty much always but once they have a threat you've got like smother , and uhhhh uhhhhh chumping tarmagoyf is good for chumping but the rest of your dudes will eat it to any good threats. Also how fast do you get goose to thresh, i see no way for goose to become big in a reasonable amount of time.
So say you've removed all the relevant cards in your opponents hand, then they draw a good one, and they play it, and you sit there looking silly with double discard dead in your hand.
Well, those be my thoughts look at greendeath threads their strategy seems fundamentally better.

What are you talking about? This deck has 18 creatures. I do agree that it has too many discard spells though. 4 Duress, 4 Hymns and 4 Thoughtseize is probably all that is necessary. Here's a decklist from my perspective.

Spells:42
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn To Tourach
4 Ghastly Demise
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Living Wish
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Nantuko Shade
4 Dark Confidant
4 Hypnotic Specter

Lands:18
4 Bayou
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Polluted Delta
3 Cabal Pit
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Swamp

Sideboard:15
1 Rackling
1 Viridian Zealot
1 Uktabi Orangutan
1 Bone Shredder
1 Withered Wretch
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Dust Bowl
1 Maze of Ith
1 Grave-shell Scarab
6 (open slots)

There's my version. Let me know what you guys think.

Aggro_zombies
10-19-2007, 02:55 PM
There's my version. Let me know what you guys think.
I fail to see where Maze of Ith would be useful - this is an aggressive deck with control elements, and Maze of Ith is almost never going to be useful for you - you're in black, for Christ's sake! Just kill the creature and get on with it. Now that I think about it, I would treat the deck as an aggro-control deck in a similar vein to Thresh, but using discard instead of counters and taking a more proactive stance than Thresh by removing guys to facilitate your assault. In other words, you're playing an aggro deck that runs just enough control to force its men through. In other other words, this deck would be much better as Green Death. Living Wish is too slow in a deck that wants to be as proactive as this one, and Pernicious Deed is counterproductive in all but a few matchups. Drop some Thoughtseize and Living Wish, move Deed to the side, and run some more removal maindeck.

Cavius The Great
10-19-2007, 06:59 PM
Maze of Ith is uncounterable Tarmogoyf tech (unless they counter Living Wish, which they probably won't).

You're also acting like Discard doesn't have a late game. That's what discard does, is setup a late game. That's when Living Wish comes into play so you're able to chose a bomb and finish them off.

Living Wish also allows me to run a toolbox which is one of the deck's biggest strengths. Without it, I couldn't deal with bothersome artifacts or enchantments before sideboarding.

I don't know about you, but I'm really feeling my decklist. :tongue: