Noman Peopled
10-20-2007, 11:15 AM
As Extirpate is a favorite of mine, I've been trying to make use of it maindeck if possible, or else as a massive disruption package in the side (3-4).
I'm also a big fan of lists, so here goes:
cons
- hits less decks than, say, Duress, with a wide variety of actual impact on the game; specifically, Extirpate does little against decks built on redundancy (lots of mana, creatures, counters, etc)
- does nothing to impact the board immediately
- doesn't provide card parity like discard does
- needs proactive disruption to be really effective
- can be played around by Wishes or multiple win conditions
- doesn't really double a gy hate
pros
- split second; this is a huge boon, actually, less for the uncounterability, more for preventing stack tricks
- has a lasting effect on a handful of decks even without proactive disruption
- numerous synergies
So to summarize, the pros seem to fall prey to the speed of the format. However, black recently got Thoughtseize, which effectively doubles the available discard spells at 1CC in the format (barring Therapy, which will often not get whatever you want to Extirpate).
It's imperative to disrupt early - whether you play Extirpate main or side - as well as be slow enough to take advantage of the long-term effect. This is not to say you should be slowing your deck down, rather than refrain from sticking Extirpate into a deck that can't "profit" from removing library cards, because the game will be decided qithin a few turns). Of course, in certain matchups, you can actually slow down the game with early disruption + Extirpate to an extent that will make Extirpate matter ;)
Wasteland is an awesome synergy as well. I actually went as far as including Ghost Quarter in some test builds to remove all of my opponent's dual lands as early as possible (in my defens, it got removed quickly). Removing fetchlands and Wastelands is some good as well when your opponent is mana-screwed, color-screwed, or you can back it up with LD/Stifle.
In control mirrors, I've seen Extirpate used to great effect in my local metagame. Discard is not the only way to tell what your opponent has in hand so you can retain card parity, and immediate impact is not as important.
Of course, there are those decks that get screwed more by Extirpate than your average multicolored matchup. Among these, those relying heavily on a single card stand out: Loam, Crucible, High Tide, Aluren, etc. (I take disruption as granted anyway.)
So far so good.
But there's also Chalice for one which will not only stop Extirpate but also the discard you may have been playing to support it. Even if you'd be playing 8 Duress/Sneeze, 4 Wastes, 4 Sinks anyway, you may not want the added vulnerability. So ... just don't side Extirpate in in Chalice matchups.
The bigger problem is that Extirpate, no matter how good and synergistic with the deck, may just clutter up slots that you need for pressure, more independent disruption, or immediate defense. Consider Pox with its 4 Pox, 4 Sinks, 4 Hymns, 4 Duress, 4 Innocent Blood, 3-4 Crucible, 2 Nether Spirit, about 24 lands ... you definitely need more pressure and - is Extirpate better than Infest? Smallpox? Vindicate? Idol? You could still stick it in the side against combo/control, but, again, is it better than more discard, Crypt, or Needle? A similar scenario also applies to other archetypes like board control (Train Wreck) or The Rock.
(Btw, it's obvious that Extirpate is utilized, not non-existant as my rant here might seem to have you believe. Even in small quantities, it makes people reconsider decks that simply die to it, which imho is a good thing.)
So I guess my question is, is Extirpate a niche, sideboard card or is it potentially good for something more?
I'm also a big fan of lists, so here goes:
cons
- hits less decks than, say, Duress, with a wide variety of actual impact on the game; specifically, Extirpate does little against decks built on redundancy (lots of mana, creatures, counters, etc)
- does nothing to impact the board immediately
- doesn't provide card parity like discard does
- needs proactive disruption to be really effective
- can be played around by Wishes or multiple win conditions
- doesn't really double a gy hate
pros
- split second; this is a huge boon, actually, less for the uncounterability, more for preventing stack tricks
- has a lasting effect on a handful of decks even without proactive disruption
- numerous synergies
So to summarize, the pros seem to fall prey to the speed of the format. However, black recently got Thoughtseize, which effectively doubles the available discard spells at 1CC in the format (barring Therapy, which will often not get whatever you want to Extirpate).
It's imperative to disrupt early - whether you play Extirpate main or side - as well as be slow enough to take advantage of the long-term effect. This is not to say you should be slowing your deck down, rather than refrain from sticking Extirpate into a deck that can't "profit" from removing library cards, because the game will be decided qithin a few turns). Of course, in certain matchups, you can actually slow down the game with early disruption + Extirpate to an extent that will make Extirpate matter ;)
Wasteland is an awesome synergy as well. I actually went as far as including Ghost Quarter in some test builds to remove all of my opponent's dual lands as early as possible (in my defens, it got removed quickly). Removing fetchlands and Wastelands is some good as well when your opponent is mana-screwed, color-screwed, or you can back it up with LD/Stifle.
In control mirrors, I've seen Extirpate used to great effect in my local metagame. Discard is not the only way to tell what your opponent has in hand so you can retain card parity, and immediate impact is not as important.
Of course, there are those decks that get screwed more by Extirpate than your average multicolored matchup. Among these, those relying heavily on a single card stand out: Loam, Crucible, High Tide, Aluren, etc. (I take disruption as granted anyway.)
So far so good.
But there's also Chalice for one which will not only stop Extirpate but also the discard you may have been playing to support it. Even if you'd be playing 8 Duress/Sneeze, 4 Wastes, 4 Sinks anyway, you may not want the added vulnerability. So ... just don't side Extirpate in in Chalice matchups.
The bigger problem is that Extirpate, no matter how good and synergistic with the deck, may just clutter up slots that you need for pressure, more independent disruption, or immediate defense. Consider Pox with its 4 Pox, 4 Sinks, 4 Hymns, 4 Duress, 4 Innocent Blood, 3-4 Crucible, 2 Nether Spirit, about 24 lands ... you definitely need more pressure and - is Extirpate better than Infest? Smallpox? Vindicate? Idol? You could still stick it in the side against combo/control, but, again, is it better than more discard, Crypt, or Needle? A similar scenario also applies to other archetypes like board control (Train Wreck) or The Rock.
(Btw, it's obvious that Extirpate is utilized, not non-existant as my rant here might seem to have you believe. Even in small quantities, it makes people reconsider decks that simply die to it, which imho is a good thing.)
So I guess my question is, is Extirpate a niche, sideboard card or is it potentially good for something more?