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View Full Version : [Article] Unlocking Legacy - Combo: The Missing Link



Nihil Credo
10-22-2007, 09:20 AM
Here. (http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/14902.html)

My opinion: less combo, more Goblins. The first is just being tuned, but Goblins needs a total overhaul. With so many options available to the black splash, any decklist needs at least a lot of reasoning behind it.

Happy Gilmore
10-22-2007, 09:36 AM
The mana curve of that goblin deck makes me shudder. No Mogg Fanatic?? I could be wrong, but isn't Mogg Fanatic why Cephalid Breakfast needs to run Tarmogoyf/Abayance and Ichorid is a fairly decent matchup? The clump at 4cc is way way to big. And is the legendary goblin really neccessary, especially when you have neither Gempalm or Fanatic to create recursion? Have you tested this RB Goblin deck or is it yet another speculative list?

Brehn
10-22-2007, 10:02 AM
That breakfast list has only 1 Therapy... so what do you do if you draw a combo part?

ForceofWill
10-25-2007, 04:57 AM
Abeyance them then combo and therapy yourself or dig for brainstorm.

Brehn
10-25-2007, 05:16 AM
So you need 2 creatures on the board + one other card you can't tutor for (Abeyance or Brainstorm) in your hand to start the combo? That sucks.

ForceofWill
10-25-2007, 05:25 AM
You don't need to threapy them if you they aren't playing any instants that can hurt you. You also play 4 ponder and have fow.

Bryant Cook
10-27-2007, 12:01 PM
I really liked this. It had a fair amount of me in it also.

Anusien
10-27-2007, 07:27 PM
I really liked this. It had a fair amount of me in it also.
Wow, you're really competing with Deep6er there.

I thought it was a fine article. There's a certain amount that I knew already, but I think articles like this are important because combo seems underrepresented to quite a few people.

Bryant Cook
11-02-2007, 10:37 AM
Wow, you're really competing with Deep6er there.

Last time I knew, Gearhart's deck was dead. Winner, winner?

DeathwingZERO
11-02-2007, 10:46 AM
Last time I knew, Gearhart's deck was dead. Winner, winner?

It won't take long for yours to be, also. Every deck has it's 15 minutes, some just last for 30.

Curiosity though, I've noticed that a lot of people have been saying that there's been more attempts at breaking from Storm based combo, yet TES is probably the only straight-combo deck that's putting up a number of results. What kind of more "traditional" combo options do people think we even have left right now?

Bryant Cook
11-02-2007, 10:50 AM
It won't take long for yours to be, also. Every deck has it's 15 minutes, some just last for 30.

Curiosity though, I've noticed that a lot of people have been saying that there's been more attempts at breaking from Storm based combo, yet TES is probably the only straight-combo deck that's putting up a number of results. What kind of more "traditional" combo options do people think we even have left right now?

TES won't die to natural selection, I can guarantee that. The deck has so many open slots to just fit the metagame with and a wishboard to complement that. I believe this is why the deck sticks around. It looks nothing like it did when I won the second mana leak. As for other combo decks, I guess breakfast is the closest thing we have to a traditional combo deck. As for other options, no idea.

matelml
11-02-2007, 11:03 AM
Belcher is the closest competitive kind of storm based combo. Than you get SI and IGGy pop and Solidarity, which all haven't put up any results lately.(Did SI ever put up results?)

SpatulaOfTheAges
11-02-2007, 12:10 PM
TES won't die to natural selection, I can guarantee that. The deck has so many open slots to just fit the metagame with and a wishboard to complement that. I believe this is why the deck sticks around. It looks nothing like it did when I won the second mana leak. As for other combo decks, I guess breakfast is the closest thing we have to a traditional combo deck. As for other options, no idea.

If only Solidarity had had open slots and a wish-board, it would have stuck around forever too.

Bryant Cook
11-02-2007, 12:19 PM
If only Solidarity had had open slots and a wish-board, it would have stuck around forever too.

Solidarity had 4 open slots. Not to mention the deck was slow as balls.

SpatulaOfTheAges
11-02-2007, 12:25 PM
And TES is far easier to disrupt. You're not exactly sharing revelations here. Solidarity had the weakness of only being a mid-game combo deck. TES lacks the inevitability of Solidarity.

You're fooling yourself if you think TES is always going to be succesful. It's not exactly shaking up the format right now, anyway. It's marginally succesful. Solidarity was a lot more format-shaping in its hey-day.

Bryant Cook
11-02-2007, 12:41 PM
And TES is far easier to disrupt. You're not exactly sharing revelations here. Solidarity had the weakness of only being a mid-game combo deck. TES lacks the inevitability of Solidarity.

You're fooling yourself if you think TES is always going to be succesful. It's not exactly shaking up the format right now, anyway. It's marginally succesful. Solidarity was a lot more format-shaping in its hey-day.

It's hey-day ended because it was too slow to compete. I don't see TES being too slow anytime soon. Have you even played against the newer lists of TES? I'd say it's not easy to disrupt at all. When I can go to late game against Threshold and Landstill and still pull out wins consistently, I believe the deck some inevitability. Maybe it's not as strong as Solidarity's but it's there.

DeathwingZERO
11-02-2007, 01:06 PM
You seem to be getting too far into the ego pitfall of backing your creation, rather than taking into account it's much easier to kill off than you believe.

TES has options, but no combo deck is going to stand up against control variants consistently, otherwise it WOULD be the top deck in the format. It's already faster than all aggro decks, so obviously it not being the #1 slot, it has bad matchups somewhere.

Flash had good matchups vs everything because it was broken, and only lost to itself. TES can't say it has anywhere near the power level.

Volt
11-02-2007, 01:13 PM
TES is resilient and versatile. I can see it lingering around Tier 2 for a good, long time. As a matter of fact, I can't imagine the metagame will get much worse for TES than it is right now, yet it still puts up some results.

Bryant Cook
11-02-2007, 01:36 PM
TES has options, but no combo deck is going to stand up against control variants consistently, otherwise it WOULD be the top deck in the format. It's already faster than all aggro decks, so obviously it not being the #1 slot, it has bad matchups somewhere.

I beat control all the time, it's not hard. Read some of my reports. Between 4 Chant, 2 Abeyance, and 4 blasts from the board it's not that hard. Now with Dark Confidant generating more card advantage than them it becomes hard for them to win. I'm not saying TES is tier one, but I don't see the deck going away for a very long time, unless Wizards prints something that hoses the deck. The metagame is terrible for TES right now and I'm still plowing into top 8's.