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BeeblesofLife
10-24-2007, 01:15 AM
Being a fan of Vintage's explosive crusher list, I thought that maybe we could give it a try in legacy.

First off, Arcbound Crusher, The 4cc artifact creature that is brown's virsion
of Q.Dryad.
Its a good creature in theory, but there needs to be a shell around it.
Crusher works in vintage because it has ALOT of sheap moxen to make it really big really quick. We can solve this small problem in legacy by using Lotus Petal and Mox Diamond. Both give you explosives starts and make Crusher big. They also add to Affinity which I will touch on later.

Vintage has Skullclamp since Legacy doesn't have this we can sub it out with Thoughtcast and Thirst for Knowledge.

As For the rest I was thinking of using a basic Affinity list with some changes:

Creatures:
4 Arcbound Crusher
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Ornithopter
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Frogmite
3 Myr Enforcer



Spells:
4 Mox diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Thought cast
3 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Cranial Plating

Lands:
4 Darsteel Citadel
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of Synod

The only way to make this work was to put it into an Affinity build.
I dont have any testing done, at the moment I was first trying to get a proper list put up to test with.
What do you all think?

mattkru
10-24-2007, 01:43 AM
The difference between Vintage and Legacy is the 'Swords to Plowshares'.
Nobody uses it in Vintage, because there's no need for it.
But in Legacy you'll have a big problem with it.

Pinder
10-24-2007, 02:01 AM
Vintage also has Workshop, which is great for those first turn Crushers.

I wonder, though, if it would be at all possible to fit Crusher into some sort of Welder shell. It triggers whenever an artifact hits, so swapping Tangle Wires or some shit to lock them down while Crusher gets huge and beats face might be another avenue. A sort of Stax-y 5/3-ish build.

shaftshaftner
10-24-2007, 03:14 PM
While I'm not a Vintage player and cannot speak for the deck, I definitely find the idea intriguing. Swords to plowshares aside, I could see this being fun to play, if not terribly reliable. But it seems like you'd be using a lot of artifact mana to power him out early and leaving a pretty weak hand to actually buff him up once he hits play (if he hits play).

I think arcbound worker could be replaced with berserk and those furnaces with tree of tales.

Zach Tartell
10-24-2007, 03:19 PM
Mox Diamond with fifteen lands is a terrible idea. You can't even "cast" it because it's been errated to read "As an additional cost" instead of "CIP."

APriestOfGix
10-24-2007, 03:20 PM
Vintage also has Workshop, which is great for those first turn Crushers.

I wonder, though, if it would be at all possible to fit Crusher into some sort of Welder shell. It triggers whenever an artifact hits, so swapping Tangle Wires or some shit to lock them down while Crusher gets huge and beats face might be another avenue. A sort of Stax-y 5/3-ish build.

On that not, STP a crusher, you weld it out for something else, and modular the counters to another arcbound creature. Seems like it MIGHT work...

BeeblesofLife
10-25-2007, 01:14 AM
Well I could put it in as a kill in my artifact list.
Running Trinisphere, Tangle Wire, and the like for a protection funning 4 ravager as well as a Sundering Titan some Trikes.
I'll get on later and put up a proposed list.

monkeyfeelers
10-25-2007, 12:55 PM
well, you may be strong enough to win some ground wars but you really have nothing else. Your very short on lands, especially if you mox some and have city of traitors to explode.
Also seems to be missing any sort of answer to anything. You have some draw cards but all you can draw is more dudes and more dudes is a bad answer to a lot of threats. Unless your deck gets on top turn one and stays there throughout the whole game loosing seems like the only option. I only see three powerful creatures in the list and you need at least two of them to have a board position worth mentioning so any removal seems like it wrecks you.
Finally, how does this deck not just scoop to combo. Decks with very little disruption have a hard time competing and your list has zero disruption so I don't see you ever winning a game v-combo since they will be goldfishing faster than you since your clock is slow.
Seems to me if you were going to play and affinity deck one should start with the blue splah versions with FOW and chalice of the void main.

Cavius The Great
10-25-2007, 01:16 PM
Isn't the reason Arcbound Crusher is so good in Vintage is because of Moxen, mana crypt, sol ring and mana vault? Without these cards, I really don't see a successfully Legacy port. But I would love for you to prove me wrong.

nastynate
10-25-2007, 02:00 PM
Isn't the reason Arcbound Crusher is so good in Vintage is because of Moxen, mana crypt, sol ring and mana vault? Without these cards, I really don't see a successfully Legacy port. But I would love for you to prove me wrong.

Crusher was good in vintage (about 3 years ago, ever so briefly) because it came into play on turn one off some combination of artifact mana (black lotus, mana crypt, mana vault, sol ring, and moxen), workshops, ancient tombs, and tolarian academy. It was also paired with genesis chamber in a mono-brown artifact beatdown deck (containing ornithopters, affinity creatures, cranial plating, and skullclamp).

The deck (the name escapes me), also ran 4 spheres, 4 chalice of the void, wastelands, and crucible of worlds. Crusher was only included in place of ravager because at the time null rod was everywhere, and the deck needed an alternate win condition; it most often won with cranial plating and 18+ power ornithopters on turn 2-3.

Of course, once the surprise factor was gone the deck faded into obscurity since it was so easy to hate (much like affinity decks in legacy). There should be some archived posts about it on TMD; just search for posts by Purple Hat (aka Hale, the deck's inventor) and you should be able to turn up something on it. I think Hale might have placed in the top 16 of the first Star City Games P9 tournament with it, but I don't recall for certain.

BeeblesofLife
10-26-2007, 12:11 AM
Well seeing how yall are rather counter productive, lets change the list around. I forgot who proposed useing Crusher as a primary wincon in a controlish deck but I going with that Idea.

Rough list mind you but here it is.

4 Goblin welder
4 Crusher
2 Trike
1 Sundering Titan

4 Trinisphere
4 Tangle Wire
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thoughtcast
4 Thirst for knowledge
4 Mox Diamond
3 Crucible


4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of Synod
4 Wasteland
2 Academy Ruin

The mana base is strange I know but thats ok I deal with that one later.
It has control with trinisphere and Chalice. Thirst and Thoughtcast for draw.
Welder is there to keep the "lock" on early game. Titan and Trike for long game. And Crusher, need I say more?
Plz consider options before you shoot it down.