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Inimically
10-24-2007, 06:08 PM
Hello, I am somewhat new to Source but not new to Magic by any means. I typically only play Type ll, but am starting to get into Legacy. A lot of the cards are unfamiliar to me as I am jst getting started. Now I don't have much for cards, and I would like an honest opinion on a deck I am considering putting together. **Constructive critism only please**


Deck List:

16 x Mountains

4 x Mogg Fanatic
4 x Grim Lavamancer
4 x Magus of the Scroll
4 x Gorilla Shaman
4 x Jackal Pup

4 x Rite of Flame
4 x Lightning Bolt
4 x Chain Lightning
2 x Umezawa's Jitte
2 x Price of Progress
4 x Incinerate
4 x Fireblast

Sideboard:

3 x Pithing Needle
3 x Pyroblast
3 x Shattering Spree
3 x Engineered Explosives
3 x Pyrostatic Pillar

Yes, I am aware that almost all of my spells cost R and that I could potentially lose to a turn 1 Chalice for 1, but that is why I am asking for constructive critism.

Michael Keller
10-24-2007, 06:18 PM
I am aware that almost all of my spells cost R and that I could potentially lose to a turn 1 Chalice for 1

You have no idea how often I've heard this over the years (probably with the rest of the Legacy community). Of course a well-timed Chalice will hurt, but that doesn't necessarily translate into an auto-loss for you. Remember with Shattering Spree: Replicate is not affected by the Chalice. There are ways to get around Chalice - and those are options I would highly consider for my sideboard. Just about any artifact destruction spell or built in ability on a creature would work. Just consider how tight you list and sideboard are for major events before competing.

ClearSkies
10-24-2007, 06:26 PM
With most of your stuff costing 1-2 mana, why rite of flame?

4x Magus of the Scrolls seems a bit much. Why the 4x Gorilla Shaman? Is your meta-game filled with low cost Artifact based decks (Affinity?)?

Can you explained the Engineered Explosives too? I can only see that you can only set it at zero or 1. Is there a reason for that for you metagame?

Is your meta-game filled with nonbasics? Have you thought about Magus of the Moon or Blood Moon?

The Rack
10-24-2007, 06:26 PM
As the manabase goes you could look into Wooded Foothills or Bloodstained Mire for deck thinning applications. Barbarian Ring also compliments the rest of the deck while adding mana and finishing off an opponent. Rift Bolt could replace Rite of Flame unless of course you want an explosive start however mana acceleration won't help you out n the long run. My 2 cents.

Wallace
10-24-2007, 06:35 PM
Hello and welcome to the source. I really like this deck, plays like burn, but has some dudes to help with the job. I think you need to replace the Incinerates with Lava Spike and run Spark Elemental, drop 4 x Magus and 2 x Shamen. I would run 2 more land and run 4 x fetch lands. You really don't need the Magus, If you really want to run the scroll effect, then just run Cursed Scroll. I don't think the rite of Flames are needed, you will find they are a dead card mid to late game Run Spirit Guide if you want some mana excel, at least you can cast them. I would look at running main deck Magus of the Moon too, hope this helps.

Pinder
10-24-2007, 06:36 PM
Deck List:

16 x Mountains

4 x Mogg Fanatic
4 x Grim Lavamancer
4 x Magus of the Scroll
4 x Gorilla Shaman
4 x Jackal Pup

4 x Rite of Flame
4 x Lightning Bolt
4 x Chain Lightning
2 x Umezawa's Jitte
2 x Price of Progress
4 x Incinerate
4 x Fireblast

Sideboard:

3 x Pithing Needle
3 x Pyroblast
3 x Shattering Spree
3 x Engineered Explosives
3 x Pyrostatic Pillar



I'm not really sure why you're running Gorilla Shaman in the main, this looks like a Sligh-ish Aggro list, and he doesn't really seem to fit the bill here. He might be good against a resolved Chalice or something, I guess, but stuff like that is best left to the sideboard (and Shattering Spree is better for that anyway). I like the Price of Progress in the main, what with Thresh, Combo, and Landstill running around as well as you having zero nonbasics (the land count could concievably go up too, as 16 is cutting it a little thin). If you can, I'd up it to 3 or 4. Rite of Flame seems out of place here, with all of your spells costing so little you shouldn't need mana accel. I realize stuff like turn 1 RoF -> Double Bolt or something is cool, but really it doesn't ever happen enough to make it worth it. You're better off running something more worthwhile in those slots (like more burn, a la Lava Spike or something). Magus of the Scroll is fragile and slow. If you want a Scroll effect, may I suggest just running good ol' Cursed Scroll? It dies less, and it provides colorless sources to deal with pesky pro:red.

Those are just a few rough thoughts, I'll be more thorough when I have more time. Good luck on the deck.

edit - Ooh, seconded on the maindeck Magus of the Moon.

Jaynel
10-24-2007, 06:40 PM
Hearth Kami beats for 2 and takes out artifacts when you need it. Same with Tin-Street Hooligan (if you want to splash green).

midnightAce
10-24-2007, 06:42 PM
@The Rack
Grim Lavamancer + Barbarian Ring != combo

@Deck
Jackal Pup is probably not an ideal creature to play in the current format running rampant with Goyfs. If you can keep the blockers clear, Slith Firewalker might be a better option, or simply pack some Ball Lightnings and/or Blistering Firecats as finishers.

They've already pointed out that Gorilla Shaman is not needed unless your meta is filled with Affinity. You can switch them for other creatures to ensure you will always have something to equip the Jitte to.

GreenOne
10-24-2007, 06:59 PM
Hello, I am somewhat new to Source but not new to Magic by any means. I typically only play Type ll, but am starting to get into Legacy. A lot of the cards are unfamiliar to me as I am jst getting started. Now I don't have much for cards, and I would like an honest opinion on a deck I am considering putting together. **Constructive critism only please**


Deck List:

16 x Mountains

4 x Mogg Fanatic
4 x Grim Lavamancer
4 x Magus of the Scroll
4 x Gorilla Shaman
4 x Jackal Pup

4 x Rite of Flame
4 x Lightning Bolt
4 x Chain Lightning
2 x Umezawa's Jitte
2 x Price of Progress
4 x Incinerate
4 x Fireblast

Sideboard:

3 x Pithing Needle
3 x Pyroblast
3 x Shattering Spree
3 x Engineered Explosives
3 x Pyrostatic Pillar


Welcome to the format! you'll enjoy legacy! :smile:
Here are my tips:
- Simian Spirit Guide is probably better than rite of flame. It's not as dead in the late game and it can be somewhat useful to counter daze or have a FoW-like effect with the Pyroblast in side.
- I'd run fetches somewhere as they help with the use of Lavamancer.
- Gorilla Shaman is not as good here as is in T1: not many moxes. I'd try Goblin Cadets for extra beating and personal preference (love them) or heart kami if you really fear chalice. It's quite good vs Vial too.
- Why engineered explosives? seems like you can set it to 0 for ETW or 1 to an auto-wrath effect. Not much.
- Price of progress can be a real beating, I'd up the count to at least 3.
- Are 16 mountains enough to support 4 Fireblasts? Really don't know this one, I'm bad at making manabases, but think about it.

Cait_Sith
10-24-2007, 07:08 PM
Actually, GreenOne, in an aggro deck pure mana accel is almost always terrible. It takes up slots that could be used as a threat.

I threw everyones advice together, plus some of my own and Eladriel's, and came up with this list:

// Lands
3 [ON] Wooded Foothills
3 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
13 [MM] Mountain (1)

// Creatures
4 [TO] Grim Lavamancer
4 [10E] Mogg Fanatic
4 [TE] Jackal Pup
3 [MR] Slith Firewalker
4 [PLC] Blood Knight
4 [FUT] Magus of the Moon

// Spells
3 [TE] Cursed Scroll
3 [EX] Price of Progress
4 [VI] Fireblast
4 [LG] Chain Lightning
4 [A] Lightning Bolt

The only changes not discussed before are Blood Knight (StP proof and First Striker) and Slith (He can get huge REALLY fast).

I'll leave the SB up to you, but stuff like Hearth Kami, Shattering Spree, Pithing Needle, and Tormod's Crypt is really good right now.

Edit: Forgot Fireblast. Incinerate--> Fireblast. Jitte ---> 1 Scroll, 1 Price, 1 Land. Also added fetches.

Nydaeli
10-24-2007, 07:09 PM
- 16 lands aren't enough. I'd consider 18 to be the minimum, and personally I'd run 20 here. Cut Rite of Flame for more mountains.

- I'm guessing Gorilla Shaman is anti-Chalice protection, but it still doesn't seem that great. I'd cut it.

- Any reason not to splash green? Kird Ape, Tin Street Hooligan, thatabsurdcreaturethatcosts1G... Splashing would also make EE way better.

Inimically
10-24-2007, 07:17 PM
It's not that I play against a lot of Affinity, but I do see a lot of Aether Vials and shaman seems to pop them consistly well at a 4 of and stays in play unlike hearth. I have tried the deck out with 20 land vs 16 plus 4 Rite of Flame, and the latter seemed to work better as the mana curve doesn't care to have over 2 to 3 lands anyway. I would love to replace Magus of the Scroll, but I can't find something else as cheap that can swing after turn 1, with a direct damage ability mid and late game for when I can't swing or need to block and then activate ability when damage is on stack, that will more than likely just absorb a burn spell anyway, the utility for 1cc why it made the cut in the first place. Ball Lightning would work, but then I would need 20 lands and the deck just wasn't as effective with that number. I won't use Lava Spike or anything of the sort as it doesn't control the board like everything else in the deck(except Pup). The cards that I am willing to drop are 4 x Magus of the Scroll and 1 x Gorilla Shaman, maybe even 4 Jackal Pup, but like I forementioned, I am short on Legacy quality cards.

Wallace
10-24-2007, 07:56 PM
It's not that I play against a lot of Affinity, but I do see a lot of Aether Vials and shaman seems to pop them consistly well at a 4 of and stays in play unlike hearth. I have tried the deck out with 20 land vs 16 plus 4 Rite of Flame, and the latter seemed to work better as the mana curve doesn't care to have over 2 to 3 lands anyway. I would love to replace Magus of the Scroll, but I can't find something else as cheap that can swing after turn 1, with a direct damage ability mid and late game for when I can't swing or need to block and then activate ability when damage is on stack, that will more than likely just absorb a burn spell anyway, the utility for 1cc why it made the cut in the first place. Ball Lightning would work, but then I would need 20 lands and the deck just wasn't as effective with that number. I won't use Lava Spike or anything of the sort as it doesn't control the board like everything else in the deck(except Pup). The cards that I am willing to drop are 4 x Magus of the Scroll and 1 x Gorilla Shaman, maybe even 4 Jackal Pup, but like I forementioned, I am short on Legacy quality cards.

I hate posting deck lists in response to posts but if I were to play this deck and I have been thinking about it, here is what I would play:

4 x Mogg Fanatic
4 x Grim Lavamancer
4 x Magus of the Moon
4 x Keldon Marauders

4 x Lightning Bolt
4 x Chain Lightning
4 x Lava Spike
4 x Rift Bolt
4 x Fireblast
3 x Price of Progress
3 x Sulfuric Vortex

15 x Mountain
3 x Barbirian Ring

Sideboard:

4 x Pyroblast
2 x Red Elemental Blast
3 x Pithing Needle
3 x Shattering Spree
3 x Pyrostatic Pillar

monkeyfeelers
10-25-2007, 03:39 PM
The deck seems fun but I think a R/G would be much better. This will give you access to better and faster creatures in tarmagoyf and kird ape and maybe one of the green 2/1 for one guys who's names have escaped me. I don't like magus of the scroll because he is slow coming online in such a fast format and the same goes for grim lavamancer. I would concentrate on getting some early beats in with dudes and then finishing the game with burn( sort of like boros last extended season)
As for the burn 4 price of progress is the way to go it is the most efficient burn in legacy were duals are so defining for all the three color mana bases.
The rest of the burn seems to be good.
Here is what i would play
-2 jitte
-4 x Grim Lavamancer
-4 x Magus of the Scroll
-4 x Gorilla Shaman
-4 rite of flame

+4 kird ape
+4 tarmogoyf
+2 price of progress
+4 simian spirit guide(I think the card disadvantage here may hurt you, if it does put another threat in here)
+4 isocron scepter ( put some burn on here so you never run out of damage, may also be a good reason to play fire/ice so you can burn and draw cards)
Welcome to the format, hope you enjoy it

FakeSpam
10-26-2007, 12:13 AM
I just love price and magus in the same deck.

Nice nonbasic mountains you have there. Take twelve.