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Media314r8
10-25-2007, 01:51 PM
Everyone please have a look, and I'll go ahead and inform you as to the text of Goblin Settler, as I'm mostly sure you'll all have to look it up otherwise.

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Goblin Settler 3R
creature- goblin

when goblin settler comes into play, destroy target land.

1/1
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//Creatures// (20)

4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Matron
2x Gempalm Incinerator
1x Mad Auntie
4x Goblin Settler
2x Wort, Goblin Auntie
3x Siege-Gang Commander

//Spells// (16)
4x Thoughtseize
4x Aether Vial
4x Thorn of Amethyst
4x Chalice of the Void

//Mana// (24)
4x Mox Diamond
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Wasteland
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Wooded Foothills
4x Badlands
1x Mountain
1x Swamp

//SB//
4x ensnaring bridge
3x Dystopia
3x Jitte
3x Sun Droplet (tech vs aggro and burn... IDK could be fanatics)
1x Goblin Tinkerer
1x Goblin Sledder

The general concept is much the same as more common stacks builds, with a possible 1st turn chalice slowing down the opposing deck, with the stacks player using manly 3+cc spells anyway. Lackey and Vial both seek to cheat mana and abuse all the goblins with CiP effects. Other than that, a 1st turn
thorn can slow down even thresh players enough to hope for a string of:

1st turn: (tomb or mox/land) thorn
2nd turn: (land) matron fetching wort
3rd turn: (land) wort (block goyf/whatever threat with matron)
4th turn: either cycle incinerator on trigger or recover matorn, if later, play matron
5th turn: start beating with wort, replay/cycle to get a blocker on the board, hope to begin settler/ siege-gang shenanigans.

Mainly the premise is to use wort and matron to establish card advantage, while slowing your opponent's tempo with the thorn/chalice and the LD suite of settler/wasteland. Wort/Siege-gang win conditions. Fine matchup against combo with 12 hate card MD and another 4 SB. Thresh should be about 50-50 unless you get a nutty 1st turn Chalice for 1 second turn settler/waste wreck their land. Aggro could be a problem, as could burn. (chalice and thorn help) Have yet to build it as I'm currently testing a more traditional RB goblins, but would like input/criticisms as I'd like to build a stacks-like deck, and I've always loved goblin settler.

EDIT (30 Oct):
move 4x chalice to MB in place of 3-Sphere, seemed to have more of a impact in more matchups. Up'd jitte to 3x SB and added 3x Sun Droplet.

EDIT (31 Oct):
removed 2x incinerator for 1x Mad Auntie and another Siege-Gang, as I dont ever want to see more than one gempalm with y low goblin count. Replaced the Auntie slot SB with a goblin sledder.

Cavius The Great
10-25-2007, 02:00 PM
I really think that blue is a better splash than black. Propaganda makes Goblin Settlers much more dangerous. And I'm not sure why you're not running kiki-jikki for that sweet little landlock. Blue also gives you things like Stifle, In The Eye of Chaos and Arcane laboratory versus combo and control.

APriestOfGix
10-25-2007, 02:16 PM
i read the title, and my answer is no...

i read your post, and my answer is NO!

don't combine aggro and board control, it never works!

FakeSpam
10-25-2007, 02:18 PM
I really think that blue is a better splash than black. Propaganda makes Goblin Settlers much more dangerous. And I'm not sure why you're not running kiki-jikki for that sweet little landlock. Blue also gives you things like Stifle, In The Eye of Chaos and Arcane laboratory versus combo and control.

Wort isn't blue.

Cavius The Great
10-25-2007, 02:19 PM
Wort isn't blue.

And you're point is?...

FakeSpam
10-25-2007, 02:44 PM
And you're point is?...

Nevermind. The opening post goes into detail about how imprtant Wort is. I just assumed you read it.

bigbear102
10-25-2007, 02:48 PM
Nameless Inversion is pretty good removal to go with Wort also, just a thought.

Cavius The Great
10-25-2007, 03:08 PM
Nevermind. The opening post goes into detail about how imprtant Wort is. I just assumed you read it.

I also assumed that you read my post. I mentioned Kiki-Jikki which is just as good if not better than Wort at cycling Settlers. I really think if you went the 'blue' route that Kiki-Jiki would be used as an alternative to Wort.

monkeyfeelers
10-25-2007, 03:10 PM
neat idea, so here's some thoughts
Why 3shpere, I am relatively sure that 2shpere is universally better in legacy than 3sphere. Its less effective against all the one mana spells, which admittedly are many but most of them are played because they cost 1 not two, paying B1 for cantrips is almost as bad as paying B2 because either way you have already lost the tempo. Against the other popular cc in the format (2) 2shpere is just as powerful as 3sphere. Lastly against a variety of other spells (empty the warrens, tendrils of agony , meditate) and so forth 2sphere is significantly better. All in all I believe that the one mana cheaper option is much better even if its less effective against 1cc spells it still is just as or more effective against everything else and comes down one turn faster. 2sphere also has better synergy with thorn.
Also I think your deck needs to make room for some more goblins. If i were building a deck like this I would go with an aggro/disruption plan since you have the power of lackey and vial already in your shell. I'm not really sold on the ancient tomb and mox diamond being necessary if you change from 3 to 2sphere. I would probably opt for 22-23 land with 4 waistland and 3-4 rishadan port for mana denial.
At this point I'm not sure that goblin settler is the right way to go. Since you have waist/port for denial and thorn/shpere for disruption i think you need to be more concerned with winning. I would test something like
24 creatures
4 lackey
4 matron
4 piledriver
4 ringleader
3 incinerator
2 Seige gang
3 wort

10 disruption
4 thoughseize
2 chalice of the void
4 thorn

4 other
4 aether vial

22 land
4 waisteland
4 rishadan port
duels/search/basic dependant on how many other decks with waisteland you expect to see

Sideboard should have some more combo hate and maybe some graveyard hate since graveyard is becoming such a huge resource.

Silverdragon
10-25-2007, 03:35 PM
neat idea, so here's some thoughts
Why 3shpere, I am relatively sure that 2shpere is universally better in legacy than 3sphere. Its less effective against all the one mana spells, which admittedly are many but most of them are played because they cost 1 not two, paying B1 for cantrips is almost as bad as paying B2 because either way you have already lost the tempo. Against the other popular cc in the format (2) 2shpere is just as powerful as 3sphere. Lastly against a variety of other spells (empty the warrens, tendrils of agony , meditate) and so forth 2sphere is significantly better. All in all I believe that the one mana cheaper option is much better even if its less effective against 1cc spells it still is just as or more effective against everything else and comes down one turn faster. 2sphere also has better synergy with thorn.


One word: Symetry.
2Sphere makes all your cc3+ spells more expensive, 3Sphere does not. I'm not saying you should always run Trinisphere because of this but in a deck that wants to play its higher cc threats asap 2Sphere can be a real roadblock. I've played with Stax variants long enough to know just how big a difference there is between 4 mana and 5 mana with an Ancient Tomb based manabase. (edit as a reminder: I'm not sure which Sphere is better in the OP's deck I just commented on the general issue of 3Sphere vs 2Sphere)

The deck itself looks good in theory but I'm not sure whether it's good enough in reality. Have you done any testing yet?

Citrus-God
10-25-2007, 06:20 PM
I'd cut 3 Gempalms from the deck, since the lone copy can be Tutored up by Matron and get re-used by Wort constantly.

-3 Gempalms

+1 Wort
+1 Siege-Gang Commander
+1 Utility Goblin

Metaknight
10-25-2007, 06:49 PM
i read the title, and my answer is no...

i read your post, and my answer is NO!

don't combine aggro and board control, it never works!

so far this is the best idea in this thread.

Media314r8
10-25-2007, 07:42 PM
@Cavius:
In case you haven't HARDCAST a copy of kiki-jiki recently, allow you to remind me that he costs 2RRR. That does include RRR in case you thought I typed it wrong. 4 wasteland 4 tombs does not make a consistently cast RRR make. The 2BR comes down a turn earlier and gets back guys after a wrath/clasm (which wort surives and kiki doesnt), as well as raise-dead past chump-blockers. Wort has fear and ican't be needled. Kiki can kill your opponent's lands faster, yes, but he doesnt make gempalm recursion/cantrip as sick in actually killing the goyf that's blocking your dudes. Propaganda is inferior IMO to 3sphere or matorns, ect. as It is a 'do nothing' card. It beats EtW combo tokens but so does 3-sphere, and a goyf still beats your face in with propaganda. 3-sphere and mana denial make it hard for thresh's 17 land manabase to get to 3 mana to cast the beater, and then you have infinite chumps/d-tutors to throw in front of him.

@APriestOfGix:
Golbins, while if facilitated by lackey yielding a second turn siege-gang CAN be an aggro deck, it is really a control deck with an aggro kill. It runs vial in place of other goblins to ensure its key spells resolve, it uses port/wasteland to slow its opponent's development rather than to speed its own, and it has 11 cards that yield straight forward card-advantage. Goblins wins by drawing more cards and having better threats late game than other decks, and by shutting down their mana while cheating their guys into play. It also, thanks to lackey, can have a crazy-go-nuts goldfish against combo/creatureless decks. Goblins is a control deck, and I have taken all the control/card-advatage staples of goblins and put them in a stacks control shell. Seems logical to me.

@monkeyfeelers:
If you want a deck that runs 31 goblins and ringleader, look in RB Goblins in the DTB thread. This is a new deck and from what I understand, completely original. It wins via evasion in wort and siege-gang direct damage rather than a swarm of guys (ie no warchief, piledriver) and it controls the opponent with mana disruption and the thorn/3sphere. Yes, 3sphere could be 2sphere, but 3 sphere can simply make casting goyf relatively impossible for thresh for at least three or four more turns of 2U cantrips to find one of their their remaining 14 lands. 3sphere also rocks out combo decks like iggy-pop and solidarity, that can play through two-sphere.

Thank you all for your recommendations, and I admit that 3sphere is at now the weakest card in the deck, but until I can find another thoughtsieze-like card that simultaneously hozes thresh and combo, it stays (also contemplating moving thoughtsieze to the board)

Cavius The Great
10-26-2007, 10:26 AM
In case you haven't HARDCAST a copy of kiki-jiki recently, allow you to remind me that he costs 2RRR. That does include RRR in case you thought I typed it wrong.

That's why you run cards like Seething Song to fuel Kiki out.


Propaganda is inferior IMO to 3sphere or matorns, ect. as It is a 'do nothing' card. It beats EtW combo tokens but so does 3-sphere, and a goyf still beats your face in with propaganda.

To compare Propaganda to Trinisphere doesn't make any sense. They do two totally different things. I never said that I prefer Propanganda. If anything, I would play Propaganda in addition to Trinisphere. Not to knock Trinisphere, but playing on the draw, Trinisphere does nothing against EtW. That's where Propaganda comes into the picture to alleviate this problem.

thefreakaccident
10-27-2007, 09:22 PM
This is getting out of hand... Goblins will get its' light in the sun once again, but not for a while... There are 2 things it had that it still needed, warcheif (which is ne of the few reasons it remained competative) and piledriver (house)... any deck that doesn't pack those, but still packs lackey wil never have a chance at being competative... sorry feller.

FakeSpam
10-28-2007, 12:17 AM
Don't be hatin'

Personally, I like it. There have got to be about a million off-the-wall goblins that would do quite well in this kind of deck.

Skinny Oprah
10-28-2007, 01:48 AM
Don't be hatin'

Personally, I like it. There have got to be about a million off-the-wall goblins that would do quite well in this kind of deck.

off-the-wall (ôf'thə-wôl', ŏf'-)
adj. Informal

1. Very unconventional or unusual: manic, off-the-wall creativity; off-the-wall humor.
2. Exhibiting bizarre behavior; crazy: their off-the-wall friends.


don't see useful there, HEYO

Media314r8
10-28-2007, 11:56 AM
since when have stacks prison-type deck ever needed 'explosive' or as you say, 'house' cards to win with. Matron, Wort, and Settler have more of an immediate impact on your opponent's board and the game state than piledriver and warchief. A deck with so few goblins doesn't fit a piledriver, and with threesphere, warchief will only give your goblins haste and cost 1RR. If I wanted that effect, I would run fervor, as it costs 2R and doesnt die to bolts/fire/ice. Some conventional stacks decks won via recursion of pyrite spellbomb or barb ring. I believe that tutorable fear and siege gang are superior to these, and piledriver would simply be a win more card here that doesn't fit the controlling theme.

Also, running four seething songs and HOPING you hit a kiki in the same hand would be madness, as kiki has about as much an impact as wort, but cannot recover from wrath effects or be cast as effectively, and the deck doesnt need the additional card disadvantage that seething song creates. kiki < wort in this deck. Kiki +4 seething song slots <<<< wort.

tsabo_tavoc
10-28-2007, 01:43 PM
After some tests, I make following changes:
-4 Thorn of Amethyst
+4 Chalice of the Void
CotV@2 is golden in many matchups, not to mention it has 0 antisynergy with the maindeck. CotV@1 is needed to immune Wort from being Stped or Bolted. CotV@0 is always faster than Amethyst to beat storm-based combo.
-2 Goblin Settler
+1 Goblin Sharpshooter
+1 Boggart Harbinger
I donnot like Goblin Settler that much to use a full set, and I really like Gempalm Incinerator and donnot want to run a number below 4. Use Sharpshooter to sweep out the EtW tokens, Elves...Boggart Harbinger is debatable, just use to add the tutor number.
For sideboard, Jitte number should be 3 or 4, for the deck is not explosive enough and just need it to gain life or fight opponent's Jitte. Also, Extripate seems a decent option.

Media314r8
10-30-2007, 11:11 AM
@ chalice MB: thanks for the insight, I agree compltely, replaced the weakest card- 3sphere with chalice MB

legacyplayer0
10-31-2007, 05:00 PM
I'd cut 3 Gempalms from the deck, since the lone copy can be Tutored up by Matron and get re-used by Wort constantly.

-3 Gempalms

+1 Wort
+1 Siege-Gang Commander
+1 Utility Goblin

I would replace some of the Gempalms with Fanatics. There aren't enough goblins to kill big dudes with Gempalm, and Fanatic can deal with small guys like Birds of Paradise and Dark Confidant earlier so your opponent can't counteract your mana denial.

Media314r8
10-31-2007, 05:30 PM
I would replace some of the Gempalms with Fanatics. There aren't enough goblins to kill big dudes with Gempalm, and Fanatic can deal with small guys like Birds of Paradise and Dark Confidant earlier so your opponent can't counteract your mana denial.

I agree that gempalm doesn't do as much here as in traditional goblins builds. I do certainly want to see one copy, as it does get silly with wort. I dislike the Idea of playing the harbingers as additional matron effects, as they don't yield card advantage, I have made the following changes:

-2 Gempalm Incinerator

+1 Siege-Gang (I hardly ever frown at seeing this guy in hand, and I'd imagine I'd be even happier to see him ith 4 mox and 4 tomb. Also 3 allow for more consistant Lackey none-sense.)
+1 Mad Auntie (to protect/ Pump Auntie and company)

I really don't think mogg fanatic is all he is hyped to be, and I've tested and played many a goblins build. I do agree that he kills bob very well, and for that reason he stays, as I see the GBW junk decks being a tough matchup, but seige-gang deals with bob and friends as well. Bridge decks are going to be a harder matchup, but that is where chalice and Thorn come in. (thorn makes the flashback cost 1 more, allowing me to find an answer before they throw down both Illusionist and Ghoul. 1 Goblin Sledder Takes the place of wort SB as he offers the same advantage, as well as providing a sac-outlet for maton/settler recursion and helps gobs survive pyroclasm effects and swing in for lethal.

Cavius The Great
02-17-2008, 01:48 PM
I hate to necro threads, but I figured I'd tell everyone how ecstatic I am. I picked up a playset of Goblin Settlers and am creaming my pants over it. I also plan on building a deck based around the card. Not this deck in particular, but a prison build that I've concocted myself. I also have two Settlers coming in the mail, so I should have a total of six. :tongue: Look out for a thread on "Cavius Prison" in a month or so from now. :wink:

Now concerning the actual list on this thread, Have you considered Cabal therapy, Media? It seems to me that This should make Settler/Wort recursion that much easier while netting you more cards than Thoughtseize. I don't know, it might be something to consider. What do you think?

Media314r8
02-17-2008, 05:30 PM
Thanks cavius for recognizing the power of settler, and I would agree that TS<therapy in this build... at least once the engine is going. Not having mnay early drops to flashback the therapy with is rough, but it does become much better lategame.