[Discussion] Meta Game Call! [Archive]

thefreakaccident

10-27-2007, 11:08 PM

Ok... so my meta has taken a sudden shift recently; I live in San Diego and I need some help.

I was doing quite fine for myself winning a local tourney every other week (every week I played) with my landstill deck... I played the URW version against a field of fish, thresh, goblins, survival, and other landstill decks (also add in home made random decks)... Recently, both goblins and fish have stopped attending as well as the survival.

Right now there are like 6 landstill varients, 3 LFTL decks (control), a little thresh, black aggro-control, some random aggro like BDW and ELVES!, and burn... I went to the tourney last night and got 9th... going 3-1-1... there are usually like 30 people in attendance & there are always a couple scrubs there (ranging from 2 to 6).

What would be a good deck to play in this meta?

ClearSkies

10-28-2007, 12:00 AM

30 people attending with a bunch of tiered decks playing...

I am totally jealous of you, lol. In my local, there are rarely anyone playing tiered Legacy decks, and it is considered lucky if enough people shows up to start the tournament. Many times, the tournament is cancel because lack of players. There are zero large Legacy tournament in my city, at least I don't know any.

Anyways, how about Solidarity? It supposedly has a good matchup with control decks with slow win conditions. (It is bad against Thres and Black aggro-control)

Maybe Enchantress with Karmic Guide and Ground Seal maindecked? Ground Seal does hose LTFL, and the Karmic Guide/Replenish do mess up mass removal plan. Humility/Moat can shut down random aggro decks while Chill (or something like this) can mess up Red based decks. (CRET Belcher, Burn)

thefreakaccident

10-28-2007, 12:38 AM

I want a deck that is known to have a good Matchup against these decks, not cool deck ideas.

Wynk

10-28-2007, 12:51 AM

6 landstill varients, 3 LFTL decks (control), a little thresh, black aggro-control, some random aggro like BDW and ELVES!, and burn...

No combo?

Clearskies did offer some good suggestions, especially Solidarity for your meta. It does have great games vs. control, but thresh may be its undoing.

Given those requirements, I'd have to recommend Rabid Wombat for the random aggro/Thresh/Landstill variants. It has LOADS of creature removal, a great late game, and is fairly immune to wastelands. Wing shards is fairly uncounterable barring stifle + a counter.

LFTL packing Armageddon does worry me, but if they don't, you have Decrees and dragons for the mid/late game and it always has a great game vs. most versions of landstill.

Problem: You may lose to the clock. Its slow.....

Galroth

10-28-2007, 01:18 AM

Wynk and Clearskies have it right. Accepting the minimal amount of Thresh and the black-aggro (depending on how much disruption it's running) Solidarity will knock that field flat.

Random aggro tends not to be quick enough or pack enough disruption to take on Solidarity. Those control decks just aren't made to beat solidarity at all. Thresh does have the better match-up, but in the hands of a skilled player (this is the keypoint) I really would say it's even. That said Solidarity is one of the damned hardest decks to ever play, especially when you're going to run into counter-wars.

What has hated Solidarity out of the current meta (in my opinion) is the quick combo decks which are not present in your meta, and a prevalence of Thresh. With that many control decks running around, I would guess that Thresh is not likely to increase in numbers. Solidarity is a solid choice all around if you're in it to win.

Some other options... urgh, well they say Threshold is the number one deck for a reason. You might try the UGb variant with Confidant. The simple card advantage might be able to overcome those control decks. Or maybe straight up UG thresh running both stifle and wasteland to play with precarious manabases.

Good luck.

SpatulaOfTheAges

10-28-2007, 02:04 AM

What they said. It sounds pretty good for Solidarity there. Assuming that Thresh and black disruption aren't too big, and/or that they're more meta-gamed for a non-combo meta.

Lego

10-28-2007, 02:13 AM

Given those requirements, I'd have to recommend Rabid Wombat for the random aggro/Thresh/Landstill variants. It has LOADS of creature removal, a great late game, and is fairly immune to wastelands. Wing shards is fairly uncounterable barring stifle + a counter.

Of course, I've got to second the Solidarity suggestions going around. It's a pretty solid choice most times. Against that field, you should be pretty fine, just play it over and over and over. You don't want to go unprepared into a field of Landstill with Solidarity. Knowing the deck, you'll scoop that up every time, but new to the deck that's not a match you want to see.

Barring that, however, Wynk's suggestions is even better, I think. There is no reason, however, to play Rabid Wombat when you can play Quinn instead. Against Landstill you simply win... like 75%... you drop SDT, they drop Standstill, you Scrying Sheets for long enough to cycle a huge Decree, they've basically GOT to pop their Standstill to answer it, you do it again, and eventually win with recurring Eternal Dragons. You play more removal than Threshold plays Creature and Counters combined, so you're pretty fine there. Aggro just loses to you. Black decks lose to Enlightened Tutor and Moat. And in the end, it's got a slightly better clock than Wombat because it can E-Tutor for Sacred Mesa. Plus, if Cephalid Breakfast happens to randomly show up, you're better than 60%.

Why am I not playing that deck again? :(

SpatulaOfTheAges

10-28-2007, 02:15 AM

Doesn't that deck lose to Loam?

Eldariel

10-28-2007, 06:56 AM

I suppose the preboard games are alright, but you really want to get Scepter-Chant to win there. Post-board it appears abysmal as they'll bring in Ancient Grudge or something and Chant no longer solves. Of course, post-SB the grave hate will be coming in to hit the Loam itself, so it's probably not that horrible.

matelml

10-28-2007, 11:43 AM

With 6 Landstill and a lot of slow decks Ichorid combo seems nice.

JACO

10-29-2007, 03:28 AM

If I was you I would play RGB aggro, with 4 Dark Confidant, 4 Tarmogoyf, 4 Duress/Thoughtseize, 3-4 Price of Progress main, and a bunch of burn. That would probably smoke most of those decks, and the RGB color combination provides pretty much every sideboard option you would need.

Lego

10-29-2007, 01:26 PM

Doesn't that deck lose to Loam?

Yeah, probably. I guess I didn't fully read his list. You can probably win game 1 with Chant Lock and hope to win game 2 with Crypt. Sacred Ground might be good here, too. I think you can probably make the game a coin flip with some good skill and sideboarding.

Cait_Sith

10-29-2007, 01:50 PM

Yeah, probably. I guess I didn't fully read his list. You can probably win game 1 with Chant Lock and hope to win game 2 with Crypt. Sacred Ground might be good here, too. I think you can probably make the game a coin flip with some good skill and sideboarding.

Thing is, Solidarity just rips off the faces of some of those decks in his meta. Most Loam decks have pretty much 0 chance of being Solidarity and Landstill isn't much better off unless it hits an early Standstill and a lot of luck.

Black Ag-Con is always ugly, but what type is it? MBA, Sui Black, and Red Death all have different Solidarity MUs.

Also, are we talking UG, UGr, UGw, or UGb Thresh? The first two pose extremely little threat to Solidarity, having only 4-7 hard counters typically, while the second two run various types of other disruption, making them much harder to fight through in a short time.

thefreakaccident

10-29-2007, 01:56 PM

Mainly the 2nd and third ones, but there aren't that many threshold decks here (like 2 actual thresh decks, then a bunch of blue based aggro-control)...

The Black aggro was mono-sui with sinkholes, duress, hymm, wasteland, hippie, confidant, and shade... It was pretty solid, buyt it was pretty janky because he had an alternate board into mono-black madness... kinda funky.

Nihil Credo

10-29-2007, 06:57 PM

6 landstill varients, 3 LFTL decks (control), a little thresh, black aggro-control, some random aggro like BDW and ELVES!, and burn...
Oddly enough, Burn should fare quite well in this metagame. It slaughters Landstill and Loam (particularly with maindeck PoP), has a good Black-based matchup, and can deal with random weenies as long as it packs Flamebreak. Of course, for all I know every Landstill player is packing Pulse of the Fields and every Loam player packs Chalice.

Happy Gilmore

10-29-2007, 07:52 PM

Oddly enough, Burn should fare quite well in this metagame. It slaughters Landstill and Loam (particularly with maindeck PoP), has a good Black-based matchup, and can deal with random weenies as long as it packs Flamebreak. Of course, for all I know every Landstill player is packing Pulse of the Fields and every Loam player packs Chalice.

What does Chalice matter if you have MD Price of Progress. Target player loses 10-14 life for :1: :r: seems good to me.

the_show

10-30-2007, 05:43 AM

In a slow, controlling meta Ichorid combo seems like the way to go. Ichorid is fast, hard to disrupt, and will generate anxiety among and unprepared field.

Here's what I think is happening. Your opponents have made an adjustment to the previous meta, and in turn you must counter their gameplan. Allow me to ellaborate. If you play against the same people on a consistant basis, they will expect you to play the same deck you played last week. For instance, you take Landstill into a mixed field and win regularly. People notice you have a great track record, but they're tired of losing. So they adjust; Next thing you know Landstill is struggling to win games. Your opponents have made a choice, since they can't beat Landstill they will either play Landstill, or build a deck that makes life difficult for Landstill (For example, Burn and Loam). Playing Ichorid provides you a huge surprise factor. Since your opponents don't expect Ichorid they may not have sufficient sideboard to stop the beatings.

TheRock

10-30-2007, 09:44 AM

You people are forgetting that a good-great Landstill player could have the sideboard abilities to beat Solidarity games two and three simply because there is Threshold in the meta. It's the same with UGw Threshold. I've lost more than my fair share of matches playing Spring Tide because of my lack of foresight at times - although there is something about siding in 4 Duress, 4 Meddling Mage, and 3 Extirpate that just drives my nuts into the wall.

Ichorid is the best choice assuming they don't have lots of graveyard removal. I can't find a deck on your list that Ichorid would lose game one to other than Burn. However, if you do suspect that they have lots of GY removal because of the Loam and Threshold decks, then a different combo deck would probably be a better choice.

APriestOfGix

10-30-2007, 12:08 PM

Play TES, Ichorid, or URbliterate!

matelml

10-30-2007, 12:31 PM

Landstill>>TES

Lego

10-30-2007, 12:50 PM

Depending on the specific LftL decks that are seeing play, Truffle Shuffle actually seems like a good choice for that meta. If you expect some burn decks, make sure to maindeck some number of Hierarchs, and Witness is some good against MBA. I don't think I'd get techy with the Glittering Wish stuff, but you could try it. I'd probably just stick to the good old formula.

Nihil Credo

10-30-2007, 01:12 PM

Depending on the specific LftL decks that are seeing play, Truffle Shuffle actually seems like a good choice for that meta.
If it's 43 Lands, it rapes Truffle Shuffle.
If it's TerraGeddon, it rapes Truffle Shuffle.
If it's AggroLoam, it rapes Truffle Shuffle.

Stay the fuck away from Truffle Shuffle.

thefreakaccident

10-30-2007, 09:19 PM

What does Truffle shuffle beat besides threshold?

Nihil Credo

10-30-2007, 09:50 PM

Every blue-based aggro-control deck in existence, and bad aggro decks. With Hierarchs in the main, good aggro decks too.

Lego

10-31-2007, 03:00 AM

The metagame he listed was this:

Right now there are like 6 landstill varients, 3 LFTL decks (control), a little thresh, black aggro-control, some random aggro like BDW and ELVES!, and burn

Truffle shuffle beats Landstill, Threshold, Black Aggro-control, random aggro, and with Hierarch in the main, Burn. It also beats any LftL decks that don't play mass LD (which means that, yes, TerraGeddon and AggroLoam are bad matchups because of Armageddon and Devastating Dreams, but they can be boarded for, and they're not unwinnable.)

43 Lands is certainly not a bad matchup for Truffle. Let me walk through the win conditions of 43 Lands real quick. Beside each, you'll find the answers that Truffle plays:

2 Roar of the Wurm - 4 Swords to Plowshares, 3-4 Vindicate, 3-4 Damnation, 4 Pernicious Deed, 1-2 Gigapede, 3 Krosan Tusker, and post-board 2-3 Smother.

4 Mishra's Factory- 4 Swords to Plowshares, 3-4 Vindicate, 4 Pernicious Deed, 1-2 Gigapede, 1-2 Grave-Shell Scarab, 2-3 Loxodon Hierarch, 3 Krosan Tusker, and post-board 2-3 Smother, and 4 Eternal Witness. Plus sometimes Krosan Grip.

3 Treetop Village- 4 Swords to Plowshares, 3-4 Vindicate, 4 Pernicious Deed, 1-2 Gigapede, 1-2 Grave-Shell Scarab, 2-3 Loxodon Hierarch, 3 Krosan Tusker, and post-board 2-3 Smother.

Which leaves 2 Barbarian Rings. I'll take my chances, considering that Haunting Echoes > your entire deck.

Nihil Credo

10-31-2007, 05:42 AM

43 Lands is certainly not a bad matchup for Truffle. Let me walk through the win conditions of 43 Lands real quick.
Let me walk you through the mana configuration of Truffle Shuffle real quick.

Three colours, 23 lands plus 3x Krosan Tusker, a curve that starts at 3 except for Swords to Plowshares (and some irrelevant discard).

Literally *all* that 43 Lands has to do is keep you off of Haunting Echoes mana, which isn't terribly difficult with just Ports and recurring Wastelands, plus the option of (Recoup into) Wish into Devastating Dreams.

At that point, they can win with whatever manland they choose: except for the StPs, all your removal is a Fog.

Except for the trump card of Haunting Echoes, and the lack of Crucible/Loam of your own, the Truffle Shuffle matchup is very similar to the 3/4c Landstill matchup. Ask any Landstill player what they think about facing 43 lands.

Lego

10-31-2007, 12:36 PM

Literally *all* that 43 Lands has to do is keep you off of Haunting Echoes mana, which isn't terribly difficult with just Ports and recurring Wastelands, plus the option of (Recoup into) Wish into Devastating Dreams.

Any good Truffle Shuffle player knows that the deck is nearly waste-proof. My build plays something like 8 basics, and can easily run off nothing but basics. Between SDT (1cc,) Krosan Tusker, and sometimes Eternal Dragon or Sak Elder (2cc, I prefer the latter, since he's an early blocker as well) it's pretty easy to hit enough mana. I didn't realize they were playing Wish into DD though. Game 1 that's GG, but game 2, in that meta, you bring in four Sacred Ground, and they have to hit DD before you hit Ground, or they have to find Krosan Grip before you Haunting Echoes them to death.

I'm certainly not saying it's my favorite matchup to play, but it's also not as unwinnable as you want to make it out to be.

Anyway, the point is that Truffle beats a lot more than Thresh. They beat pretty much anything that's not combo or mass LD, and if you expect mass LD, 4 Sacred Ground usually beats them (I've actually only tested this against really old White Threshold, where if it resolved you won, because Armageddon was no longer a threat.) They crush Landstill, Rifter, Wombat, and any other sort of slow control. They beat Threshold, Fish, Deadguy, and every other form of aggro-control I've seen. They have a difficult time against Goblins, but it's not worse than 50%, and the Glittering Wish version is better than that. With maindeck Sak Elders, Witnesses, or Hierarchs, your matchup is probably positive. Against every other aggro deck in the format, they're heavily favored. Combo is more difficult, but with maindeck Duress (it's possible that this should become Thoughtseize for the Cephalid Breakfast matchup, I just haven't played Truffle for a while) and Hymn to Tourach, and 1-2 Witnesses, and post board the rest of the Witnesses and Hierarchs (for a faster clock,) Cabal Therapy, and sometimes either Leyline of the Void or Tormod's Crypt, it's not terrible. I haven't tested it against modern combo, but I have to assume it's less resilient than Solidarity. *Shrug* I'd have to test before I made any rash conclusions.

EDIT: I don't know why I described Truffle as "They"... sorry about that.

freakish777

10-31-2007, 01:09 PM

There's no combo. Run 43 Lands.

Manabond
G
Win the Game if your opponent isn't playing Tendrils of Agony, Brain Freeze, or Flash in their deck.

TeenieBopper

10-31-2007, 01:43 PM

/shrug

I'd just keep playing Landstill. There isn't a bad match-up listed there except maybe the Loam decks. And they'd pack it to Ground Seal anyways.

edit: or goblins. You could tune goblins to fuck up that metagame.

emidln

10-31-2007, 04:09 PM

There's no combo. Run 43 Lands.

Manabond
G
Win the Game if your opponent isn't playing Tendrils of Agony, Brain Freeze, or Flash in their deck.

You forgot Price of Progress, Chalice of the Void, and Pithing Needle + a multitude of things.

DeathwingZERO

10-31-2007, 07:38 PM

Just go in with SX Tendrils, sit on a Brainstorm for about 30 minutes, and then play a piece of Power. That'll learn em.

But in all seriousness, I'd have to say it's seeming that a lot of people are agreeing Solidarity works in this meta. I for one am a huge fan of combo in non-combo environments, as it's usually not sided against very heavily.

Another I would suggest would be Anhk Sligh. It's burn, but in most cases would rape decks packing too many non-basics, thanks to maindeck Price of Progress. You can also maindeck Pithing Needles, which helps hose Landstill and manland based Loam decks (as well as any other decks relying on activations). Additional support of Flamebreak/Pyroclasm will help against aggro-based decks, and the 8 Blast Plan is good vs people catching on and playing Chill.

I've been meaning to bring it to my meta (which is a ton of Thresh, Landstill, and random blue based aggro/control with some weenies mixed in) just because I know it's got good game against most of that type of field.

If you want to discuss a list, PM me, and I'll share what I've worked on so far. I'm not going to put it into a thread yet, as I don't want to put the info out in public unless I'm certain it's got game enough to actually pan out 50/50 or better vs top contenders.

zulander

10-31-2007, 11:47 PM

Um, if there's no combo and a ton of landstill play goblins...

Lego

11-01-2007, 02:28 AM

There's no combo. Run 43 Lands.

Manabond
G
Win the Game if your opponent isn't playing Tendrils of Agony, Brain Freeze, or Flash in their deck.

You forgot Magus of the Moon :smile:

freakish777

11-02-2007, 01:46 PM

You forgot Magus of the Moon :smile:

Obviously one of the other 17 cards you play is Lightning Bolt, just for such occassions.

:wink:

Cait_Sith

11-05-2007, 05:30 PM

Obviously one of the other 17 cards you play is Lightning Bolt, just for such occassions.

:wink:

Nothing says "hawt" like 8 maindeck Lightning Bolts.

Truffle has two truly bad matchups.

1) Solidarity.
2) The Clock

I have never been waste-screwed on Truffle, just because the deck is FORCED to run a ton of basics because of the way its land fetching works.

Bane of the Living

11-08-2007, 10:28 AM

Nihil Credo

11-08-2007, 01:18 PM

Ichorid. Its so obvious after seeing your meta that it made my eyes bleed seeing the talk about 3c jankiness. Ichorid pretty much just wins unless it sees significant hate for it. Fortunately its a really cheap deck to build too.
I can't agree with this. Ichorid wins where there is no graveyard hate in the SB, and these days the default assumption is that there is. Considering that Loam is a major archetype in the described meta, I expect there won't be any shortage of Extirpates, Crypts, and/or Leylines.

SpikeyMikey

11-08-2007, 01:33 PM

thefreakaccident

11-08-2007, 11:23 PM

Jason is never around for me to ask him about anything... my understanding was that everyone else thought that Nick was the best here (I personally think I am, but whatev... jk)...

I am perparing to beat BHWC landstill not play it (cuz there will be like 3-4 people playing it!).

Tacosnape

11-09-2007, 01:37 AM

Right now there are like 6 landstill varients, 3 LFTL decks (control), a little thresh, black aggro-control, some random aggro like BDW and ELVES!, and burn... I went to the tourney last night and got 9th... going 3-1-1... there are usually like 30 people in attendance & there are always a couple scrubs there (ranging from 2 to 6).

What would be a good deck to play in this meta?

That sounds like a really good metagame for either Solidarity or Ichorid.

I think I'd happily pick Solidarity going into that, actually. With that much Loam there's bound to be graveyard hate. And -nobody- packs Solidarity hate anymore. Considering with a little skill it rolls Loam and Landstill both, as long as there isn't -much- Threshold, you should cruise.

Reset prices have dropped due to the unpopularity of the deck, making it simple to build. I'd never take it into a giant tournament with an unpredictable metagame, but where I can predict the meta, it's still a formidable weapon to have. It's propelled my Eternal Rating to over 1900 due to rampant board-sweeping control shoving Threshold out of the metagame.

JACO

11-09-2007, 01:53 AM

Listen to Jaco. He's the best 1.5 player living in Southern Cali right now, so he's the man to be talking to. I dunno how much he still plays, but if he's involved in the scene at all, he'll be able to get a better picture of what you want to be doing than anyone else.
Jason is never around for me to ask him about anything... my understanding was that everyone else thought that Nick was the best here (I personally think I am, but whatev... jk)...I am perparing to beat BHWC landstill not play it (cuz there will be like 3-4 people playing it!).While flattering Mike, I am no longer in Southern Cali. I am selling my house, and have already moved to Chicago, which I guess by default would make Nick the best remaining player, and teammate. ; )

As I already mentioned, play RGB aggro in that metagame. Your decklist should start like this:
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Price of Progress
2-3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Tarfire
4 Thoughtseize

4 Wasteland
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard:
1 Price of Progress
3 Krosan Grip

Figure out the rest yourself, and do not play crap like Rancor. If you think you're the best player there, you shouldn't have to ask others what to play.

PS. Do NOT play Ichorid in San Diego. There are way too many Mogg Fanatics, Tormod's Crypts, and Leyline of the Voids running around.

TeenieBopper

11-09-2007, 12:43 PM

Three colors + Price of Progress = Not a combo.

Just sayin'

Jak

11-09-2007, 12:51 PM

Against decks like Thresh and Landstill, the opponent will most likely be at lower life than you and Price is an amazing finisher.

TeenieBopper

11-09-2007, 01:28 PM

JACO

11-10-2007, 12:46 AM

The half list you posted included Dark Confidant, Thoughtsieze, and six fetches. Sure, he may be at a lower total, but damn if PoP won't kill you too.

Oh yeah, and Magus of the Moon + three colors = not a combo too.

That is irrelevent if you play enough basics and know what to fetch when. Unless you need a dual land, you should be fetching basics. It's not like you should be fetching dual lands against a sea of Wastelands anyway. Magus of the Moon, as well as pretty much all the other cards I listed, is incredibly powerful if you know what you are doing with the deck.

Galroth

11-10-2007, 01:18 AM

I'm right!

And Taco agreed me, which makes me doubley right! (He never does that.)

Pick up solidarity, learn it and that field is easily yours. It was a DTB for a long time for a very good reason. I think the reasoning given was sound and nobody can really object. Plus, if it is becoming cheaper to build why not?

A sidenote: I used to marvel at the Legacy metagame that was precariously balanced between Goblins and Solidarity. Each kills by turn 4 with masterful consistency. One aims at your life total, one at your library. One lays down an overwhelming board presence, the other lays down nothing but lands?! My personal test of whether or not a deck was worthy of consideration, was if it could handle both of these decks mainboard. There are very few decks out there with this capability - part of the reason Threshold became so very popular. It handled both and well.

Back to point: None of those decks handle Solidarity accepting the Thresh variant and the sui-black variant. Even then, I would put Solidarity anywhere between 35%-65% favored depending on the opponents mainboard and sideboard options, and the skill of the pilot. Ugr and UG Threshold don't handle Solidarity very well. They lack meddling mage, which was part of what made the UGw variant so strong when Solidarity was popular. Your suicide black variant is probably the worst matchup in my opinion. If the sui-black variant is a primarily aggro deck with minimal disruption though, then you're safe. If not... could get messy.

There really shouldn't be any hesitation about what handles that meta. To my mind it was clear the moment you asked. And I don't even like playing Solidarity!

Lego

11-11-2007, 07:44 PM

Ugr and UG Threshold don't handle Solidarity very well. They lack meddling mage, which was part of what made the UGw variant so strong when Solidarity was popular. Your suicide black variant is probably the worst matchup in my opinion. If the sui-black variant is a primarily aggro deck with minimal disruption though, then you're safe. If not... could get messy.

You'd have trouble being more wrong here. You could try, but it'd be difficult... both the UGr and the UG builds of Threshold are going to straight up rape you. The old red builds were hovering around 50/50 without even metagaming against Solidarity. Throw in Counter/Top, and it's GG Solidarity. UG Threshold adds Stifles to that, and you might as well scoop it up and grab a bite to eat.

Bahamuth

11-12-2007, 12:56 AM

You'd have trouble being more wrong here. You could try, but it'd be difficult... both the UGr and the UG builds of Threshold are going to straight up rape you. The old red builds were hovering around 50/50 without even metagaming against Solidarity. Throw in Counter/Top, and it's GG Solidarity. UG Threshold adds Stifles to that, and you might as well scoop it up and grab a bite to eat.

I don't belive it's actually as bad as you make it. It's definitely not an easy matchup, but it's very winnable. Playing multiple Wipe Away sideboard helps out a lot.

SpikeyMikey

11-18-2007, 01:29 PM

So, Thefreakaccident, what'd you end up going with and how's it working out for you?

thefreakaccident

11-18-2007, 08:01 PM

December has not come to pass... I just played in the local with 21 people and wet undefeated before having to leave early... I was playing my UG nought goyf... it is in the N & D and I would love to get your opinios/criticisms... I think that I will be playing that, since aggro-control is so prelevent these days.

Media314r8

11-18-2007, 09:45 PM

That is irrelevent if you play enough basics and know what to fetch when. Unless you need a dual land, you should be fetching basics. It's not like you should be fetching dual lands against a sea of Wastelands anyway.

In a deck that runs three colors and 17 lands, you will have to be a top decking GOD to be able to fetch basics. Also, only having Wooded Foothills to fetch your gren and mires to fetch your blacks does not for consistent basic fetching make (as most of your threats are in your fetches that are only one-ofs on color and your red splash for removal is in both foothills and mire.

Jak

11-18-2007, 10:28 PM

In a deck that runs three colors and 17 lands, you will have to be a top decking GOD to be able to fetch basics. Also, only having Wooded Foothills to fetch your gren and mires to fetch your blacks does not for consistent basic fetching make (as most of your threats are in your fetches that are only one-ofs on color and your red splash for removal is in both foothills and mire.

So you burn your opponent out or something. If you are going to get more srewed by playing Magus, you don't have to play him. Red is still the primary color, so you won't lose just because you can't cast Goyf (you most likely will be able to cast him though...)