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kabal
11-04-2007, 09:06 AM
Another deck abusing CB, but this version opts to run Trinket Mage for a few 1of bullets. Tell me what you guys think.

Lands
2 Island
1 Swamp
3 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
1 Volrath's Stronghold

Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Trinket Mage

Enchantments
3 Counterbalance

Spells
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Ghastly Demise
3 Smother
4 Ponder

Artifacts
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard
2 Control Magic
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Pithing Needle
3 Stifle
4 Thoughtseize

b4r0n
11-04-2007, 10:25 AM
This is eerily similar to Remi Fortier's list from Valencia. You can find his list here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/ptval07/top8decklist), if you haven't seen it already.

Have you considered splashing white for Swords? It wouldn't disrupt the manabase too much, and would increase the power of your Engineered Explosives. You could probably cut a Trop (since you only need it to resolve Tarmogoyf) and a Sea (since you'd be less dependent on black mana for removal), and maybe the Stronghold (which seems weak since you only run 12 creatures). In fact, Academy Ruins seems like it would be better than Stronghold, as recurring Crypts and EE is pretty good.

Also, any consideration for Thirst for Knowledge?

kabal
11-04-2007, 10:48 AM
This is eerily similar to Remi Fortier's list from Valencia. You can find his list here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/ptval07/top8decklist), if you haven't seen it already.


Now that you have mentioned it, I do remember seeing this event and the top 8. I totally forgot about it until now.



Have you considered splashing white for Swords?


Possibility and then I could also use Meddling Mage.


Stronghold (which seems weak since you only run 12 creatures).


Yes, I am running a few creatures, but recurring them from removal is a hugh win.



Also, any consideration for Thirst for Knowledge?

I am assuming you mentioned this because Fortier list ran them, but he also had 4 chrome Moxes + around the same artifact set I had.

FoolofaTook
11-04-2007, 10:56 AM
Might want to put a Phyrexian Dreadnought in the SB to come in with the Stifles. Trinket Mage toolkits don't have to be all defensive.

Afro
11-04-2007, 04:17 PM
Jitte with 12 Creatures seems kind of....shitty. Also white doesn't add enough for just STP and an extra counter on EE. Lastly I don't like the idea of running only 12 beaters only 4 of which have a p/t ratio of higher than 2/2. You will spend too much of your counters protecting your kill conditions rather than taking care of other stuff that needs to be answered. Also I would go with like 3 Tombstalkers as they are huge for their cost mid game.

kabal
11-04-2007, 09:25 PM
Jitte with 12 Creatures seems kind of....shitty.

Are you kidding me? I'm running 2 Jitte with 12 creatures. The equipment to creature ratio is definitely balanced. I've seen a lot closer ratio with excellent results. See Legacy Champs decks.

mackaber
11-05-2007, 03:53 PM
I tested pretty much exactly that declist with addition of a few moxes and it was attrocious to say the least. Also the jittes are truly shitty in your dec since they are essentially a conditional 4 mana spell in a dec with 18 lands. Feel free to try the dec but I'm sure it's doomed to fail also 18 lands seems sort of low.

Citrus-God
11-06-2007, 03:44 AM
From my Trinket Fish thread...

// Lands 17
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
4 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Island


// Creatures 11
4 Trinket Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Jotun Grunt


// Spells 33
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Counterbalance
4 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Shuko


// Sideboard 15
4 Engineered Plague
4 Yilix Jailer
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
3 Krosan Grip
2 Control Magic


I have tested it on-and-off. I might keep playing it, actually, but it's actually Trinket Mage itself, that is keeping me off the deck.

largebrandon
11-06-2007, 08:24 AM
Why shuko? I would think that bonespliter is better as a 1cc equipment if needed.

lukatron2
11-06-2007, 01:21 PM
Why shuko? I would think that bonespliter is better as a 1cc equipment if needed.

shuko helps you win the Goyf wars and is less mana intensive than Bonesplitter (it requires no mana to equipt).

BreathWeapon
11-06-2007, 04:14 PM
I don't think Trinket Mage/Counterbalance and Daze mesh, Force of Will, Thoughtseize (MD it) and Counterbalance should be more than enough permission. I don't care for Shuko over Bonesplitter either, Bonesplitter turns Trinket Mage into a reasonable clock, Shuko doesn't.

2 Tombstalkers is good advice, I'd also run Academy Ruins for the recursion it sets up with Engineered Explosives and Tormod's Crypt.

lukatron2
11-06-2007, 05:22 PM
I don't think Trinket Mage/Counterbalance and Daze mesh, Force of Will, Thoughtseize (MD it) and Counterbalance should be more than enough permission. I don't care for Shuko over Bonesplitter either, Bonesplitter turns Trinket Mage into a reasonable clock, Shuko doesn't.

daze (and Force of Will) are nice in those situations where you look at their hand with thoughseize and you're like "ohh shit, I can't pick both of these cards". but I can see what you mean about daze cause it slows you down a turn from getting trinket mage out. However, I think that this deck is more of a aggro/control rather than aggro/control. The nice part though is that tarmogoyf lets you switch the role quick and go aggro. Here's a list that I've been testing and its working out pretty well.

Land: x20

4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
4 Underground Sea
4 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland
1 Island
1 Swamp

Creatures: x13

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Trinket Mage
1 Phyrexian Dreadnought

Other spells: 27

4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
3 Counterbalance
3 Extirpate
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing needle

Sb:
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Krosan Grip
2 Trygon Predator
1 extirpate
1 engineered explosives
1 Tormod's Crypt
4 Thoughseize

The sb isn't official but it works out pretty good. Extirpate+stifle+wasteland=GG often times

BreathWeapon
11-06-2007, 05:33 PM
I just haven't found Daze useful, if you've played the deck in Extended, it was built on a 1-3 instead of a 1-2 curve. Granted you get to cut Thirst of Knowledge for Brianstorm and add Force of Will, but getting Counterbalance set up is more important than Dazing something most of the time. Dace can actually work against you sometimes, especially against Storm combo when it keeps you off Mage/Teeg/Balance for even a turn..

Syco_Tr0pic
11-21-2007, 02:55 PM
You're gonna laugh at this, but I'm sorta playing "Non Trinket Trinket Goyf". While playing, I was finding Trinket Mage less and less stelar. The Explosives he tutored almost never came in time to save me. Without acceleration like the Chrome Moxen in the Extended Fortier's list, the T. Mage is not so hot, and this deck doesn't seem to have enough cards to support the Moxen, since we need every card out there to stablish early tempo control. Sure once in a while he'd help me to lock the CB/SDT combo, but my cantrip engine plus Bob seemed to do the job with much less mana investment and in a more suiting way.
The toolbox was sometimes awkward too: drawing Tormod's Crypt against Fish ain't easy. Also Pithing Needle isn't great against them. Or Goblins, or *****, or TES. Well... You see.
Then I started to test with other stuff in place of the mages and the toolbox, mainly Shriekmaw (great finisher, gets hid of goyf in the early or late game, stupidly good as a Jitte carrier). Then it hit me that he's a great creature to bring back, also is Goyf and so is Bob. Plus, our removal doesn't RFG the removed creature. I think I was inspired by the Standard Makeshift Mannequin decks when I remembered Necromancy from Visions. That looks like a great card in this kind of deck: As an instant, it can mess a whole combat phase: in a test game I have killed 3 problematic creatures with one Shriekmaw and Necromancy - an early goyf via evoke, and then, later in the game, 187 Goyf + block Mongoose.
As a regular reanimation spell, it lets you get your Goyf, Bob or Shriekmaw back as well as a fallen enemy creature from their yard in case there's something interesting there.
Here's my list. I had no free wins with it so far, but didn't pick any auto losses either. Maybe against Landstil or other super contolish deck, but I didn't test those, sorry.

NON TRINKET TRINKET GOYF (or NecroGoyf)

Artifacts
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Creatures
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
2 Shriekmaw

Spells
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Thoughtseize
3 Counterbalance
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Necromancy
3 Ghastly Demise
2 Smother

Lands
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
4 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
1 Island

Sideboard
4 Yixlid Jailer
3 Krosan Grip
3 Engineered Plague
3 Stifle
2 Duress

What do you guys think?
I'm kinda in love with Necromancy so I'd like to fit one more in the deck.
I must confess that it hurts me to see Stifle out of the maindeck, too, but the deck is so tight the way it is, that I don't know what to take out for it, or if I should take something out for it at all.
That's it. I'd appreciate your feedback. Thanks.

Jade
11-21-2007, 03:08 PM
I was just looking up necromancy and found this:

You may play Necromancy any time you could play an instant. If it was played any time a sorcery couldn't have been played, it gains substance until end of turn and when it loses substance, sacrifice it.
*snip*

Did I miss something or what the hell is substance?


For the non trinket trinket goyf-thing, I can understand that you dropped the mage, but still - it holds so much power... I'm trinkering around with aether vial + epochrasite again, which should support trinket mage too. I'm still looking for another decent cmc3 drop, though.

Syco_Tr0pic
11-21-2007, 08:18 PM
Substance is the (errata) keyword that Magic R&D came up with to fix a design flaw in some old cards. The way the card is worded allows some EOT shanenigans that were not supposed to happen. For example, in the Necromancy scenario, you could reanimate some guy on their end step and just bury him in the end of your turn, when EOT effects would trigger again.
Another famous card that gained the Substance mechanic is Thawing Glaciers. I think it's the most famous example of Substance.

Lemuria
11-21-2007, 10:40 PM
Substance is the (errata) keyword that Magic R&D came up with to fix a design flaw in some old cards. The way the card is worded allows some EOT shanenigans that were not supposed to happen. For example, in the Necromancy scenario, you could reanimate some guy on their end step and just bury him in the end of your turn, when EOT effects would trigger again.
Another famous card that gained the Substance mechanic is Thawing Glaciers. I think it's the most famous example of Substance.


Yep, so people stops confusing "at end of turn" effects with "until the end of turn".

Anyway, Syco and I playtested this non trinket goyf deck a little against Fish MUs (man, sometimes take hours....like he said, it's not a free win, but it does win.) and I think you guys should give a try. Not only necro + maw can be a really tricky move but also, Necromancy is a really versatille card, specially when this deck run removals that put creatures into graveyard.