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Phantom
11-04-2007, 10:01 PM
So I may as well start with a list:

Legendary Gold

// Lands
3 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (4)
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
4 [B] Scrubland
4 [B] Bayou
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
1 [10E] Forest (3)
1 [10E] Swamp (4)
1 [ON] Wooded Foothills

// Creatures
3 [CHK] Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 [EX] Skyshroud Elite (previously Carnophage)
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
3 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
3 [LRW] Doran, the Siege Tower

// Spells
4 [B] Swords to Plowshares
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
3 [US] Duress
3 [AP] Vindicate



The last few expansions have given GWB some solid option in quick aggro. The deck seems to be able to compete with all the major archetypes. Here's a breakdown of some of the cards:

Isamaru/Carnophage: Quality one drops that can carry a Jitte. I might look to replace 'phage since this deck can kill itself fairly easily.

Goyf/Confidant/Teeg: The two drops are sweet. Jitte helps turn Confidant and Teeg turn into beaters. Teeg combines with my discard to form a solid anti combo suite.

Doran: People keep building decks around him, but he's pretty great on his own. He's also one of the many ways this deck can deal with opposing Goyfs. (careful if they're 5/6)

Stp/Vindicate: Swords is its usual great self and Vindicate I just love. Would like to get up to four but it is kind of slow and occasionally dead. It's possible that the Vindicates should be Explosives since I don't usually hit lands.

Thoughtseize/Duress: Great one drop discard spells. Have been enjoying 7 as opposed to 8.

Jitte: I'm pretty sure it should be here since I occasionally need the life gain and so many of my creatures only have 2 power.

Mishras: These guys have been great, but I'm still thinking of cutting them since this deck is so color hungry thanks to all the gold spells.

The mana base: Has been solid but I haven't tested against Waste or Stifle yet.


Sideboard: No board yet but I'm sure it will contain some serious yard hate (Leyline and maybe Extirpate) and an answer to ETW (Explosives probably) as well as the fourth Teeg and some Grips and Needles.

I've only done a little vs Thresh and Belcher and it seems solid so far. I'm afraid the Goblins matchup we'll suck but I'll run it if I have the time.

Any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated.

strom
11-05-2007, 01:51 AM
I might look to replace 'phage since this deck can kill itself fairly easily

Good point. You should probably add some Spectral Lynx -they are simply insane vs thresh and other decks running these goyfs.



Mishras: These guys have been great, but I'm still thinking of cutting them since this deck is so color hungry thanks to all the gold spells.

Agreed. Cut those Mishras for consistency.

Chrome Mox and Tithe might work, too. It helps finding the right lands and would speed you up.

ForceofWill
11-05-2007, 02:04 AM
You might want to drop phage for the g 1/1 hes a kird ape if they have a nonbasic.

diffy
11-05-2007, 03:01 AM
Marius Hausman and I worked on something very, very similar to this for about half a month or so until we were both mad at the horrible topdecks this deck has.

This is the list we last played:



// Maindeck (60 cards)
// Manabase
4 Windswept Heath (http://magiccards.info/on/en/328.html)
1 Wooded Foothills (http://magiccards.info/on/en/330.html)
4 Polluted Delta (http://magiccards.info/on/en/321.html)
2 Bayou (http://magiccards.info/al/en/278.html)
2 Scrubland (http://magiccards.info/al/en/289.html)
2 Savannah (http://magiccards.info/al/en/288.html)
1 Swamp (http://magiccards.info/apac1/en/5.html)
1 Forest (http://magiccards.info/apac1/en/1.html)
1 Plains (http://magiccards.info/apac1/en/4.html)
3 Chrome Mox (http://magiccards.info/mi/en/152.html)

// Creatures
4 Skyshroud Elite (http://magiccards.info/ex/en/123.html)
4 Dark Confidant (http://magiccards.info/rav/en/81.html)
4 Tarmogoyf (http://magiccards.info/fut/en/153.html)
3 Gaddock Teeg (http://magiccards.info/lw/en/248.html)
4 Doran, the Siege Tower (http://magiccards.info/lw/en/247.html)
1 Tombstalker (http://magiccards.info/fut/en/91.html)

// Spells
3 Swords to Plowshares (http://magiccards.info/ia/en/278.html)
1 Ghastly Demise (http://magiccards.info/od/en/139.html)
4 Vindicate (http://magiccards.info/ap/en/126.html)
4 Thoughtseize (http://magiccards.info/lw/en/145.html)
4 Gerrard's Verdict (http://magiccards.info/ap/en/102.html)
3 Umezawa's Jitte (http://magiccards.info/bok/en/163.html)

// Sideboard (15 cards)
4 Orim's Chant (http://magiccards.info/ps/en/11.html)
3 Krosan Grip (http://magiccards.info/ts/en/202.html)
4 Engineered Plague (http://magiccards.info/ul/en/51.html)
4 Leyline of the Void (http://magiccards.info/gp/en/52.html)


The deck is pretty straightforward with many of the choices similar to yours.

Skyshroud Elite is just too good not to run. It's a Kird Ape most of the time, and a Rogue Elephant sans drawback with Doran in play. Seriously, he is worth it over your 1 drops (Isamaru, Carnophage).
The 3/1 split between Swords to Plowshares and Ghastly Demise is there because it can be quite backbreaking for your aggro plan if you have to send a huge opposing Goyf or something farming. That's when you'd rather have Ghastly Demise, in the mid to late game and with only one in the deck, you won't draw it at inoportune times too often.
The full set of Dorans is included because that guy simply never lives and because you absolutely want to draw him every game on turn 3 at latest. The fact that he's legendary never really came up in testing because one copy is always sent farming or imprinted into a Chrome Mox.
The lone copy of Tombstalker is there to have some sort of evasive mid to late game finisher that can win the game right there on its own. With 9 fetchies and a lot of discard, you can often play him for 2-3 mana which really makes him shine. Also, there is no dissynergy between Dark Confidant and a cmc8 card. If Confidant ever draws you a card, you basically win and I'll thankfully take 8 if I then have an active card draw engine and a huge evasive beast that will just finish my opponent of in 2-3 turns.
Gerrard's Verdict is played over Hymn to Tourarch because of mana base issues. I also like it more than Duress or Cabal Therapy because it creates card advantage.
Chrome Mox was one of Marius's ideas. I really don't like that card, but it provides additional mana stability and accelerates into faster Dorans which is nice.

The sideboard is under construction and can really include anything that is relevant in your meta. I like this board because it offers answers to about anything in the upper tier. Krosan Grip against randomness (Pernicious Deed, Survival of the Fittest, Solitary Confinement...) and Counterbalance, Engineered Plague against tribal strategies and Empty the Warrens, Leyline of the Void against Life from the Loam based strategies and Ichorid, Orim's Chant against combo.

The deck really has issues with its horrible topdecks. Your opening 7 is mainly all you have to win, after that the deck becomes very inconsistent with you tending to be mana flooded more often than not. I tried to go down to 17 lands (20 mana sources) for a while, but I wouldn't hit GBW consistently on turn 3 or at all with that configuration, so I went back up to 18 lands.
If your draw skills are supperior to mine, I don't see a problem with playing this deck though as it has answers against a lot in the format and also a nice aggroish aproach.

Nydaeli
11-05-2007, 03:14 AM
The deck really has issues with its horrible topdecks. Your opening 7 is mainly all you have to win, after that the deck becomes very inconsistent with you tending to be mana flooded more often than not.

For what it's worth, I've been running Sensei's Divining Top in my BGW aggro-control deck, and it seems to help the topdeck problem. It's fairly slow, though, and probably detracts from the pure aggro focus of the deck being discussed here.

throst54
11-05-2007, 05:21 AM
It doesnt necessarily detract from the aggro approach if its helping you filter your draws and thus better play the aggro role.

Also, is there a particular reason your list is running 9 fetches? I know the deck is color intensive, but does it really call for that many? Coupled with confidant and thoughtseize it seems they will start to hurt you too much.

diffy
11-05-2007, 05:41 AM
Also, is there a particular reason your list is running 9 fetches? I know the deck is color intensive, but does it really call for that many? Coupled with confidant and thoughtseize it seems they will start to hurt you too much.


The fetches are mainly there to fill the yard for Tombstalker and to thin out the deck. The ratio lands to fetchies is 1 to 1 so that you can thin out your deck pretty efficiently. You don't want to draw lands. You want to fetch them because then you basically rip 2 lands out of your library out of 1 draw which greately improves your draws.
The life loss has never really been an issue in testing especially because you are the aggressor and should always be driving your oponent onto the defensive.
We had a pair of Loxodon Hierarchs (too costy) or Temple Acolyte (http://magiccards.info/po2/en/143.html)s (he's 3/3 for 2 with a Doran out) in a previous incarnation of the deck, but they never felt necesary.

For what consistency and such are conserned, you can always splash blue and you'll end up with something close to Baseruption but more aggresive.
Actually, Marius built the first version of this deck with Baseruption strongly in mind, but that's just for the record/history.

strom
11-05-2007, 06:35 AM
The deck really has issues with its horrible topdecks. Your opening 7 is mainly all you have to win, after that the deck becomes very inconsistent with you tending to be mana flooded more often than not. I tried to go down to 17 lands (20 mana sources) for a while, but I wouldn't hit GBW consistently on turn 3 or at all with that configuration, so I went back up to 18 lands.

That`s why I recommended the inclusion of Tithe... the deck is begging for it.


Skyshroud Elite is just too good not to run. It's a Kird Ape most of the time, and a Rogue Elephant sans drawback with Doran in play. Seriously, he is worth it over your 1 drops (Isamaru, Carnophage).

I dislike the Elites. The deck plays no evasive-creatures - just undercosted beaters. (That's why I like your inclusion of Tombstalker and my sugesstion of Spectral Lynx). The question is, if we really need one-drop-creatures at all, as long as we are running Chrome Mox. If the answer is yes, I would rather add some Mother of Runes acting as an enternal blocker, Jitte enabler, or Teeg, Doran and Goyf-protector.

diffy
11-05-2007, 07:06 AM
That`s why I recommended the inclusion of Tithe... the deck is begging for it.


So you recomend the inclusion of Tithe to thin out the deck? Basically what you do with Tithe is that you waste tempo and actually add cards that do nothing but 'produce' mana to the deck which is exactly the opposite of what I tried to achieve.
The manabase is otherwise stable enough to not need any fixing. 9 fetches and 3 Chrome Mox assure a color stablity and 21 mana sources alongside a mana curve that stops at 3 assure that you won't be screwed.

I am looking for ways to conserve my tempo but to also play less mana sources here.



I dislike the Elites. The deck plays no evasive-creatures - just undercosted beaters. (That's why I like your inclusion of Tombstalker and my sugesstion of Spectral Lynx).


Do you mean that this deck needs more evasive creatures? In my testing I found that you play the better creatures than most of the decks you're going to face and you have to capitalize on this. NQG is going to need a few turns to sculpt its hand/fill its graveyard, till then you have the better creatures. After the inicial phase, you should have drawn a Jitte or enough removal to be able to continue charging.

If you want to fit in evasive creatures, I still wouldn't play Spectral Lynx but rather something like Serra Avenger (or River Boa) or the like, but all these suggestions just slow the deck which isn't the way to go in my opinion, which leads me to my following point...



The question is, if we really need one-drop-creatures at all, as long as we are running Chrome Mox. If the answer is yes, I would rather add some Mother of Runes acting as an enternal blocker, Jitte enabler, or Teeg, Doran and Goyf-protector.


This deck is not Aggro-Control, it's Aggro. Therefore, you don't want to play 1/1s for 1 that do nothing on their own. You want to make some fat guys, swing, remove a blocker, swing until you're done with your opponent.
Gaddock Teeg is the only non-aggro creature in the decklist I posted above, but he's a necessary evil at least if people play Landstill or any combo deck in your meta (do always remember, above list was built for a German meta). If not, put him into the sideboard and replace him with something like Phyrexian Negator or more 1 drops (Sarcomancy, Isamaru etc) or other undercosted critters (Flesh Reaver, Jotun Grunt).

Illissius
11-05-2007, 08:02 AM
Like most people, I've also been tinkering with a BGW Good Stuff deck, in my case based in black for Nantuko Shade:

4 Dark Confidant
4 Nantuko Shade
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Doran, the Siege Tower
4 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshares

Now, this is 27 cards, and every one of them is awesome. The question is what else you could use which is similarly awesome and works with the rest of the deck, and this is the difficult bit.

The other Awesome Cards I see as candidates:
Aether Vial
Umezawa's Jitte
Pernicious Deed
Cataclysm
Brainstorm

second tier:
Hymn to Tourach
Sinkhole
Cabal Therapy
Isamaru, Hound of Konda
Phyrexian Negator
Eternal Witness
Reanimate / Unearth
Vindicate
Burning Wish

Deed is awesome, but not as great when all your creatures have low mana costs; Cataclysm has terrible synergy with Shade; and Brainstorm is not nearly as good when you splash for it, because you'll mostly have to use a fetch to be able to cast it, and not have another one left over to shuffle with. Adding Hymn or Therapy seems like too much discard for a midrangey deck like this; Sinkhole is crap by itself, and your manabase doesn't like Wastelands; Isamaru is not really that great, and would be a white one-drop in a black deck; Negator doesn't sound good outside of a hyper agressive deck like Suicide; and if you add Witness, you're better off also adding Birds, Therapy, and Survival, and making a different deck. That leaves Vial, Jitte, Reanimate / Unearth, Vindicate, and Burning Wish as the major options. Vindicate and R / U are clunky to use maindeck (especially without an LD strategy for Vindicate, which I don't think is worth pursuing without Wasteland), and Burning Wish is nice, but a fourth color and also pretty slowish. So I ended up going with Vial and Jitte, which focuses the deck around creatures. Here's what I currently have sketched:

4 Aether Vial
4 Dark Confidant
4 Nantuko Shade
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Doran, the Siege Tower
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Mystic Enforcer / Loxodon Hierarch / Hunted Wumpus / Stromgald Crusader / Saffi Eriksdotter / Gaddock Teeg / ?
4 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sensei's Divining Top?
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Bayou
4 Scrubland
4 Swamp
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 4 Engineered Plague
SB: 4 Choke
SB: 2 Pernicious Deed
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
(your sideboard options, incidentally, are also made of awesome)

Just throwing it out there. Not sure if it has any cohesiveness or power beyond being a pile of powerful cards, but when you set out to build a deck with all the awesome cards in it, I suppose that's what you get.

Maveric78f
11-05-2007, 08:26 AM
Obviously, savannahs should be scrublands.

I don't like the shades in this deck, bad synergy with the colour requirements and bad synergy with Doran in particular. I'm not sure about vial neither. I would play personnally Jotun and Vindicates and you should be careful not to pack too many green creatures. Stromgald crusader looks like a good idea too except that it would be your only double coloured card and that it does not deserve it neither. I would have a look to these cards too : mother of rune, spectral lynx and Saffi (green but it is an answer to perish).

Illissius
11-05-2007, 08:34 AM
Obviously, savannahs should be scrublands.

Er, yes. Yes they should.

Phantom
11-05-2007, 11:26 AM
Thanks for all the responses.


Good point. You should probably add some Spectral Lynx -they are simply insane vs thresh and other decks running these goyfs.

Agreed. Cut those Mishras for consistency.

Chrome Mox and Tithe might work, too. It helps finding the right lands and would speed you up.


I considered Lynx (and River Boa and the like) and will keep him in mind, but the 2cc slot is full of better cards that aren't crap against combo and control so for right now he's out.

I really don't think Chrome Mox is a good fit here. The deck runs a nice curve from 1-3 and the last thing it needs is card disadvantage.


You might want to drop phage for the g 1/1 hes a kird ape if they have a nonbasic.

Done and done.

Also, the Savannah's should be Scrubs so thanks for everyone for the tip.


@Der_imaginäre_Freund: Nice build and I'll keep all that in mind. I'm not a fan of Gerrard's Verdict though. It may be card advantage but it's the worst type of discard. They choose it, and it's slow. I need my discard to hit combo hard and that means me choosing their best card, and Belcher goes off on turn one way too often for my taste.


@Illissius: I like that build. I'm not sure if this is the deck for Shade or Vial, but they are certainly powerful enough to try out.