[Discussion] What to SB against Control?

[Seregrauko]

Hi everyone!

I'm currently playing a BWG Fuckbrew deck (among others) and I would like to get some suggestions on what to pack in my SB against decks like Landstill, Truffle-Shuffle, 42 Lands and other Loam-variants..

I've been looking at the (once so popular) hate against Standstill; Tsabo's Web. It's decent in cost, it cantrips, and it should pack a punch against Lands.dec as well. I also fear Pox-Loam and the like.

My meta is very open, and I decided to play this deck since supports alot of discard (which I find good in an open meta) and creature-removal. Plus big critters (Goyf) and cardadvantage (Confidant).

Anyway. Does anybody have experience with this decktype?? As mentioned I'm really looking for how to beat control. And decks that abuses alot of lands.

Any help is appreciated! -I also hope to get a discussion going, should somebody not agree on what to run ;)

-Seregrauko.

[Nihil Credo]

Extirfuckingpate. Tsabo's Web is more powerful against Lands (unless they bring in artifact removal), but less so against Landstill now that Deed and Explosives are popular. More importantly, though, it's much more narrow than Extirfuckingpate, which hits combo decks as well.

Can you post your list? We need that to get more specific.

[hi-val]

If you have access to black mana, then I suggest Withered Wretch. A lot of the strongest control decks have some sort of graveyard recursion going on. If you can bust that up, then you're in good shape. Extirpate, like Nihil said, is also good. I assume you're running Hymn to Tourach already, but Gerrard's Verdict might be good on the board if you aren't already packing it.

[Seregrauko]

Here's my current list. Some of the SB slots are still not tested. Deed I have decided to give a shot over the (usually) mandatory E. Plague.

Lands:
4 Scrubland
4 Windswept Heath
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Bayou
2 Swamp
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
-21

Critters:
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Jotun Grunt
3 Doran, the Siege Tower
-14

Spells:
4 Thoughtseize
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Vindicate
4 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Ghastly Demise
-25

SB:
4 Pernicious Deed
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Extirpate
3 Pithing Needle
1 Ghastly Demise
-15

Extirpate is also untested, but I can't see how it should give me an edge vs. Still and Shuffle. Yes, I can get lucky and snatch a Deed og Damnation/WoG in their hand, but it seems kinda random..(??)

Well, at least it gives me something that removes three Loams. Then I just have to keep them from wishing..

Hi-val, which GY-dependant control decks do you have in mind?? I can't come up with any.. Landstill and Shuffle mostly ignore they GYs, right?? Maybe a singleton Witness.. But that's not worth running Wretch for.. And as you see I pack GY hate both MD and SB since it's very present in my meta.

Looking forward to some further replies..

[Aggro_zombies]

Hi-val, which GY-dependant control decks do you have in mind?? I can't come up with any.. Landstill and Shuffle mostly ignore they GYs, right?? Maybe a singleton Witness.. But that's not worth running Wretch for.. And as you see I pack GY hate both MD and SB since it's very present in my meta.

Looking forward to some further replies..
Not true. Emptying Landstill's graveyard stops Nantuko Monastery at least, which is far and away their best manland. It also stops them from recurring destroyed lands with Crucible or Life from the Loam, if they run either.

Truffle Shuffle's threats recur themselves, for the most part, so letting them hit the yard in the early game (stuff like Eternal Dragon) and then removing them makes the late game harder for them. Last I checked, Truffle also was using Witnesses to recur key control pieces.

There are entire decks built around Life from the Loam - basically every land-based control deck ever that isn't Landstill (43land being the most popular among them).

Many control decks have at least light recursion themes because recurring threats or control pieces helps the deck to survive to the late game, where it can dominate.

[Seregrauko]

Thanks for the reminders, Zombies!

Well, the various Truffle builds I've faced doesn't run too much recursion. Though I remember they run Grave-Shell Scarab, which could be nice enough to snatch. Though I would probably try and Needle their Deed and then discard their WoG/Damnation and then Extirpate it, to swing with Goyf/Doran FTW.

Regarding Landstill.. Yes it would be rather hot to Extirpate a Monestary..

Well I'll give the 3 Extirpate a try.. And I hope that I can pull a win vs. 43Lands and the like. Now I at least stand a small chance vs. Landstill and Truffle..

[MattH]

Armageddon comes to mind.

[Aggro_zombies]

Regarding Landstill.. Yes it would be rather hot to Extirpate a Monestary..

Well I'll give the 3 Extirpate a try.. And I hope that I can pull a win vs. 43Lands and the like. Now I at least stand a small chance vs. Landstill and Truffle..
It might actually be better to Extirpate Standstill. Stopping control's card advantage cards makes it virtually impossible for them to survive into the late game. You'd want to hit sweepers and card drawing and selection spells because you can absorb their 1-for-1's pretty easily, and no control deck ever won the game on the back of card parity.

Armageddon is good but some control decks have begun to prepare for it, especially Landstill. They won't want you to resolve a card that basically says :3::w:, "I win," so having a backup plan as well is good.

[The Rack]

In my Funkbrew I like to choose between Leylines, Jailers, Phyrexian Furnace, Crypt, Extirpate, Teeg is awesome against Landstill too btw. My deck is in the established forum. Don't play Doran though.

PS I'm the one who who made the deck, so I have alittle experience :p.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Genesis might be good. Troll Ascetic also. Threats are good, preferably stand-alone threats that are hard to kill.

[Seregrauko]

Where to start??

I have given Armageddon some thought.. But since Landstill and 4XLands run Crucible/Loam I don't think it's the right way to go. Furthermore, some Loam decks take advantage of recurring Waste and Port. So hitting 4 mana could be hard..

Winter Orb is another option, true. And I have played it before, though not in a deck like this. I really like the card, and I could definitely see in the SB. That or Tsabo's Web. I really like the cantripping, plus it totally wrecks Land.dec.

BTW, Extirpating Standtill sounds like a good plan early on.

@TheRack: Try out Doran! It's like playing 7 Goyfs! ;)

[Deviruchi]

Hi everyone!
I'm currently playing a BWG Fuckbrew deck (among others) and I would like to get some suggestions on what to pack in my SB against decks like Landstill, Truffle-Shuffle, 42 Lands and other Loam-variants..


Unfortunately you don't run Wasteland :mad: Wasteland + Extirpate combo is so good. Hmm, these are my suggestions for matchups you wrote above:

vs Landstill: Pitching Needle (Deed, Manlands), Extirpate (depends - you will know)
vs Loam: Leyline of the Void/Planar Void, Withered Wretch (LftL, lands, anything to make his creatures smaller), Pitching Needle (Seismic Assault, Barbarian Ring, Manlands), Extirpate (depends)
vs Lands: Pitching Needle
vs Truffle-Shuffle: Extirpate (removal)

Well timed Tsabo's Web can win you games in some matchups but I think Needle/Extirpate are more flexible. Anyone have space for Web in SB ?

[The Rack]

When my meta was full of Blue Iplayed Choke against it and wrecked a lot of decks. Tsabo's Web is oldschool and doesn't do anything against wasteland as well as screwing up your monasteries if you play them.

[thefreakaccident]

His deck isn't Funkbrew... he runs neither deed, wish, or regen critters.... Funkbrew is a slower more controling varient designed to compete in an aggro-control and control Meta...

What meta do you have?

Has doran been good in your experiences?
I found him very difficult to cast against wastelands/stilfes (or even both)... you usually want to try to keep the color requirements low for key cards in these types of decks.

Choke is a ball breaker against anything blue based (trust me, I had to counter that sunnofa every time).

[the_show]

To beat Landstill you must decide whether you want to win fast or win slow. There is no in between! The aggro approach works well but you have to continually put pressure on Landstill without allowing him many 2-for-1 opportunities. In other words when he wipes you're board with Deed, EE, WoG, or Damnation be ready to drop another threat the next turn.

If you should decide to win the late game, you must generate greater card advantage. A few years ago I was playing Landstill against Hulksmash, aka Tog, and was getting my arse handed to me. It took me a while to understand not to side in more hate for the Psychatog but to either win faster or draw more cards than Tog. Trying to out control Landstill is a strategic mistake imo, because Landstill is generally superior to most decks at establishing control. Furthermore, Landstill gets stronger as the game goes later.

[Maveric78f]

The best against landstill is probably boseiju (that can be MD) + tsunami. The problem of boseiju is that it can be wasted. In this case back it up with extirpate.

Leyline of the Void + needle is not bad neither.

If you start to play some recursion on your creatures it's more threat that landstill can deal with. Wolrath's stronghold is also a MD addition that is very valuable.

Well, when I see your deck, I think that you should already win most of the games against standstill.