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Bovinious
12-02-2007, 11:45 PM
So Ive heard rumors of there being a Leyline Deck out there somewhere but have never seen a list for it, so without further ado, from the same man who brought you Pitch World, Plurality(Leyline of Singularity.dec), and partially Fluctuating Goodness, I present my first draft of Leyline Deck Wins!

// Lands
2 [7E] Forest (2)
2 [7E] Plains (2)
4 [R] Savannah
4 [US] Serra's Sanctum

// Creatures
4 [FUT] Street Wraith

// Spells
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [IN] Sterling Grove
4 [CS] Mishra's Bauble
4 [GP] Leyline of Lifeforce
4 [DS] Serum Powder
4 [UD] Opalescence
4 [GP] Leyline of the Void
4 [GP] Leyline of the Meek
4 [GP] Leyline of Singularity
4 [GP] Leyline of Lightning


The basic point is to draw a hand with some leylines, and then get Opalescence down and beat for the win, it seems kinda of hard to assemble, but Im sure there are optimizations possible from what I came up with, any suggestions?

Sanguine Voyeur
12-02-2007, 11:54 PM
Leyline of SingularityThose would be bad. It says you may, but with one, you can only have one of each. Unless you have Singularity, Void, Meek, and Lightning, you would have dead cards. It would be better as Lifeforce. That way you have a better chance of more Leylines, for example with Void, Void, Meak, Lifeforce, you would lose a void if that Lifeforce was a Singularity.

badjuju
12-03-2007, 12:00 AM
Good catch Bovinious.

I actually saw this deck in action at a recent tournament, it actually had an impressive record (I think a 5-3-0). With further testing, I think it can be a force to be reckoned with.

Key things to recognize with this deck:

Leylines are FREE: F R E E. Nothing in this world is free, but leylines are!

Serum Powder / Street Wraith: Effectively cuts down the cards in the deck and enhances your chances, greatly, of obtaining the cards you need to win.

Sterling Grove: Means you can get Opalescence fairly consistently and also protects your leylines from Tranquility or Tempest of Light out of the board.

Mishra's Bauble: Is important to see what your opponent has on top of his library to make sure you can combo off the next turn w/o having to worry too much. The cantrip helps.

Suggestions:

Living Wish: Wishing for Storm Entity to combo with multiple Mishra's Baubles and Lotus Petals seems like a strong play. You can almost imitate the storm count from decks such as Belcher or TES. As for fitting in the correct colors, just run some Land Grants and Taigas, they help your storm count as well. Living Wish also gives the deck a backup plan should things go awry (such as getting Tranquility cast on you games 2 and 3). Also, with leyline of lifeforce, your creatures will never be countered coming out of the board.

Enduring Ideal: If you can't get out enough leylines or can't find Opalescence, this seems like a fine choice to hardcast and win the game shortly after with.

All in all, this seems like a very viable deck. It has at least a 50% matchup against all the deck in the field. The only matchup I would be concerned with is Belcher because it kills you turn one on the play.

Bovinious
12-03-2007, 12:08 AM
Those would be bad. It says you may, but with one, you can only have one of each. Unless you have Singularity, Void, Meek, and Lightning, you would have dead cards. It would be better as Lifeforce. That way you have a better chance of more Leylines, for example with Void, Void, Meak, Lifeforce, you would lose a void if that Lifeforce was a Singularity.

I do play Leyline of Lifeforce, and I have thought about the SIngularity drawback but I think its important enough to the deck to at least get SOME leylines in play, even If i possibly have to hold back a second singularity/other leyline.


Good catch Bovinious.

I actually saw this deck in action at a recent tournament, it actually had an impressive record (I think a 5-3-0). With further testing, I think it can be a force to be reckoned with.

Key things to recognize with this deck:

Leylines are FREE: F R E E. Nothing in this world is free, but leylines are!

Serum Powder / Street Wraith: Effectively cuts down the cards in the deck and enhances your chances, greatly, of obtaining the cards you need to win.

Sterling Grove: Means you can get Opalescence fairly consistently and also protects your leylines from Tranquility or Tempest of Light out of the board.

Mishra's Bauble: Is important to see what your opponent has on top of his library to make sure you can combo off the next turn w/o having to worry too much. The cantrip helps.

Suggestions:

Living Wish: Wishing for Storm Entity to combo with multiple Mishra's Baubles and Lotus Petals seems like a strong play. You can almost imitate the storm count from decks such as Belcher or TES. As for fitting in the correct colors, just run some Land Grants and Taigas, they help your storm count as well. Living Wish also gives the deck a backup plan should things go awry (such as getting Tranquility cast on you games 2 and 3). Also, with leyline of lifeforce, your creatures will never be countered coming out of the board.

Enduring Ideal: If you can't get out enough leylines or can't find Opalescence, this seems like a fine choice to hardcast and win the game shortly after with.

All in all, this seems like a very viable deck. It has at least a 50% matchup against all the deck in the field. The only matchup I would be concerned with is Belcher because it kills you turn one on the play.

Sterling Grove doesnt protect from mass enchantment removal but it does protect Leylines from Grip and the like, and I just realized possibly can be used to find silver bullets such as Planar Void or Engineered Plague to help the Ichorid/Goblin matchups, any other ideas for silver bullets?

Originally there were 8 Baubles in the deck but then I realized Street Wraith was better so I cut Urza's, Mishra's seems better anyhow.

Enduring Ideal would be strong but I dont think its castable unfortunately :(

Goaswerfraiejen
12-03-2007, 12:09 AM
I worked on this deck for a little while ages ago; let me root around, and maybe I can find a semi-tuned list. From what I recall, trying to get a swift combo with Leylines and Opalescence was pretty damn tough. Instead, I opted to diversify the combo by adding the possibility of making tokens with Words of Wilding and Sylvan Library (buttload of bears--with Leyline of the Meek, you even get huge bears). There was also Saproling Burst (that's the enchantment one, right?). Even then, though, it was a little clunky and inconsistent, though it packed quite a lot of power. Without my list, all I can tell you is that I think that the deck needs more diversity to be competitive enought to be worth building. Also, Leyline of Lifeforce is pretty much useless. Sure, it ups your chances of opening with four or five Leylines; it also dilutes the strength of the deck, making it too unwieldy in the long run. Much the same goes for Singularity, unless you plan to do something nasty with Karakas.


Sterling Grove is definitely essential to protect live enchantments from creature removal, though. It's a keeper.

Bovinious
12-03-2007, 12:18 AM
I worked on this deck for a little while ages ago; let me root around, and maybe I can find a semi-tuned list. From what I recall, trying to get a swift combo with Leylines and Opalescence was pretty damn tough. Instead, I opted to diversify the combo by adding the possibility of making tokens with Words of Wilding and Sylvan Library (buttload of bears--with Leyline of the Meek, you even get huge bears). There was also Saproling Burst (that's the enchantment one, right?). Even then, though, it was a little clunky and inconsistent, though it packed quite a lot of power. Without my list, all I can tell you is that I think that the deck needs more diversity to be competitive enought to be worth building. Also, Leyline of Lifeforce is pretty much useless. Sure, it ups your chances of opening with four or five Leylines; it also dilutes the strength of the deck, making it too unwieldy in the long run. Much the same goes for Singularity, unless you plan to do something nasty with Karakas.


Sterling Grove is definitely essential to protect live enchantments from creature removal, though. It's a keeper.

Hmm karakas seems better than plains in the deck, in case we do get out Singularity some nasty shenanigans could ensue. Words of Wilding and Sylvan Library sounds like it has potential, do you have any sort of list for comparison?

ReAnimated
12-03-2007, 01:19 AM
Hmmm this deck seems interesting but i think your missing a card in here that could single-handedly win you the game.

*drum roll please*


Homarid Spawning Bed.

This card can win you the game and is defiantly worth splashing for , sure you have a rocky mana base but whats better than beating face with camarids??? Just splash some blue and throw in Aethersnipe, evoke it , and use the Spawning bed before it dies and then u just made 6 1/1's for 6 mana and with Leyling of the Lifeforce there all 2/2's what a bargin.

Cait_Sith
12-03-2007, 10:17 AM
I am assuming that is total sarcasm. The tokens would all die to Leyline of Singularity, not to mention the logistics of getting that mana out in a deck with low mana to begin with.

As note: if you have Singularity and any 2 non-land permanents out with the same name, ALL copies are put into the graveyard, not just one.

Bovinious
12-03-2007, 01:01 PM
Yeah Im pretty sure it was sarcasm too, altho maybe some cheap way of token generation could be nice with Leyline of Meek, perhaps Pegasus Mesa?

Cait_Sith
12-03-2007, 01:25 PM
Mobilization would be better. The tokens would have vigilance antics and wouldn't eat themselves automatically, so having multiple of it out would more often that not be the better choice (when compared to Sacred Mesa).

largebrandon
12-03-2007, 02:28 PM
Mobilization would be better. The tokens would have vigilance antics and wouldn't eat themselves automatically, so having multiple of it out would more often that not be the better choice (when compared to Sacred Mesa).

Sacred Mesa seems a tons better since it costs one less. 3 pegasus tokens costs the same as 2 soldiers (with Serra Sanctum, that is a ton of tokens). I don't think that vigilance is applicable, really.

So Annoying My Account Is Banned
12-03-2007, 02:48 PM
Good catch Bovinious.

No.


Leyline of singularity seems god awful in this deck. I mean, seriously, you can't abuse it (if that card could ever be abused), and it hurts you a lot more than it will hurt anyone else.

Maybe put them in the sideboard for warren tech?

ACME_Myst
12-03-2007, 03:40 PM
All in all, this seems like a very unviable deck. It has a little less then a 0% matchup against all the deck in the field.

Fixed.

Seriously, this deck is so damn bad it's not even funny. No really. I don't even know why I took the time to enter this in MWS to test it.

Something constructive to not make this entire post one big flame on your deck:

You need to resolve 1 card (Opalescence) for you to win. You cannot protect that card. In case you didn't know, there are decks out there that play counters, discard, etc.

Just.. no.

Banelich
12-06-2007, 02:41 AM
Leylines....hmm....

I've seen a T2 combo that used Leyline of Singularity to nuke Hunted Horror's token generation that was kind of interesting, but not very consistant.

As for this mess...Leyline of Singularity is bad, and belongs to a different deck entirely.

One enchantment you may consider adding 1 to 2 copies of:

Ancestral Mask :2::g:
"Enchanted creatures +2/+2 for each other enchantment in play"

If this doesn't bump it up to a tier 1 deck, I don't know what will.

No really, seriously, I really don't know what will. I guess thats why I stick mostly to odd / off the wall decks and mostly play for fun.

abel_lg
01-04-2011, 03:38 AM
Preventing Opalescence to be countered... Why don't include Boseiju? About discard we have got a big problem, even more if we begin with Leyline of the Void in play... Or adding Vexing Shusher

Mark Sun
01-04-2011, 03:45 AM
Preventing Opalescence to be countered... Why don't include Boseiju? About discard we have got a big problem, even more if we begin with Leyline of the Void in play... Or adding Vexing Shusher

Most unreal necro ever, haha.

You are running 4 Leyline of Sanctity anyways, so I don't see why discard is/wil be an issue.

Boseiju mana makes Instants and Sorceries uncounterable, not Enchantments.

Karhumies
01-06-2011, 03:29 PM
@ abel_lg: Xantid Swarm. Srsly.


I would add
4x Enlightened Tutor
1+ Helm of Obedience

as an alternative win cond. combined with Leyline of the Void. E. Tutor can also dig up Opalescence.


Replenish or Second Sunrise should be at least SB card vs stuff like Reverent Silence.


Some other card options:
Yavimaya Enchantress
Parallax Wave/Nexus
Academy Rector
Tethered Griffin
Tarmogoyf (heck, why not?)

...or, if you're feeling wild, Eureka + big stuff


Still, this deck will remain a fun casual deck - not tier 1. At best, you may try to beat up a small playgroup/tournament of friends with known target player/gy based strategies (Leyline of Sanctity/Void).

mistercakes
04-18-2017, 05:00 AM
Would like to necro the thread as it had a series on mtggoldfish.com

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/much-abrew-legacy-leylines

Would like to propose a list if anyone wants to give it a go. I'm not sure why it wasn't tested running Trinisphere maindeck. If Mishra's Workshop + Trinisphere was so oppressive, why wouldn't Serra's Sanctum + Trinisphere be equally as oppressive?


//Maindeck
2 City of Brass
4 Mana Confluence
1 Tree of Tales
4 Serra's Sanctum

4 Crop Rotation
3 Enlightened Tutor

4 Leyline of Anticipation
4 Leyline of Lifeforce
4 Leyline of Punishment
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Leyline of Vitality
3 Leyline of the Meek
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Opalescence
3 Suppression Field

4 Serum Powder
3 Trinisphere
1 Helm of Obedience

//Sideboard

1 Banishing Light
1 Oblivion Ring
3 Land Tax
1 Curse of Exhaustion
1 Replenish
1 Rest in Peace
1 Stony Silence
1 Trinisphere
1 Suppression Field
3 Plains
1 Forest



Sideboard: Could also forego Curse, light&ring, for 3 Mirran Crusader or Lodestone Golem, which are probably pretty solid as well. Maybe even run Gemstone Caverns on the draw. (swapping some of the City of Brass and rainbow lands.)

Fjaulnir
04-18-2017, 05:42 AM
Trinisphere is a pretty good plan! Both against combo and to dodge Fow on your next turn Opalescence... I dont play the deck but if it'd be a bit better I might take it to a Fnm some day (have all cards except the "bad" Leylines).

Mtggoldfish vid series discouraged me a bit tho, seemed *very* inconsistent

mistercakes
04-18-2017, 06:40 AM
i haven't watched the videos yet, but i suspect it is difficult to get 4x leylines + sanctum + opalescence. I would be happy to try on something like cockatrice, but most people probably don't want to play vs this thing!

Epeirogeny
04-23-2017, 03:29 PM
Wow can't believe this deck was a thing in 2007, and got attention just now in 2017 because of MTGGoldfish.

mistercakes
04-23-2017, 03:35 PM
i think it's always been a deck the long-term legacy players have been aware of....it's just never been good. i just necro'd the thread b/c it might be a place to talk about since goldfish necro'd the deck :P

hymnyou
04-23-2017, 04:03 PM
yep it's been around for quite awhile.

scg 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEW0M-PrOLQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDPLGv43rRk

Scott
08-05-2018, 09:26 PM
It was a 28-player tournament, but a Leylines deck with Spoils of the Vault got a top 8 (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19783&d=327491&f=LE):

// Enchantments
4 Leyline of Anticipation
4 Leyline of Lifeforce
1 Leyline of Lightning
4 Leyline of Punishment
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Leyline of Vitality
2 Leyline of the Meek
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Opalescence
1 Rest in Peace
1 Suppression Field

// Artifacts
4 Serum Powder
1 Helm of Obedience

// Instants
4 Crop Rotation
4 Enlightened Tutor
2 Spoils of the Vault

// Sorceries
2 Idyllic Tutor

// Lands
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
4 Mana Confluence
4 Serra's Sanctum
1 Tree of Tales

// Sideboard
SB: 3 Banishing Light
SB: 3 Chancellor of the Annex
SB: 1 Containment Priest
SB: 2 Ghostly Prison
SB: 1 Peace of Mind
SB: 1 Rule of Law
SB: 1 Solemnity
SB: 1 Stony Silence
SB: 2 Suppression Field

FTW
01-14-2021, 05:42 PM
Casting Enlightened Tutor into Necropotence before anyone calls a Judge or Mod

The new GG enchantment might have a home here


//Enchantments: 35
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Leyline of Anticipation
4 Leyline of Vitality
4 Leyline of Punishment
4 Leyline of Lifeforce
2 Leyline of Combustion
4 Opalescence
3 Starfield of Nyx
1 In Search of Greatness
1 Oblivion Ring

//Artifacts: 5
4 Serum Powder
1 Helm of Obedience

//Tutors: 10
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Crop Rotation
2 Idyllic Tutor

//Lands: 10
4 Serra Sanctum
4 Mana Confluence
2 Horizon Canopy

//Sideboard: 15
1 Karakas
1 Tree of Tales
3 Suppression Field
3 Deafening Silence
2 Banishing Light
1 Rest in Peace
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Pithing Needle
1 Porphyry Nodes

kombatkiwi
05-18-2021, 10:14 AM
As mentioned by someone else (forgot who) Abundant Harvest might be v good here just as a hybrid 1-mana sylvan scrying / cantrip

So for example rather than

4 Crop Rotation
4 Mana Confluence
4 Serra's Sanctum
1 Tree of Tales

You have

4 Abundant Harvest
4 Land Grant
4 Serras Sanctum
1 Forest/Savannah

You could also play Crop Rotation in addition to this, potentially.
It's bad if they counter your land grant but it's also bad if they counter your crop rotation so I assume that approximately cancels out.
I suppose the drawback is that if you turn 1 crop rotation you get the mana from sanctum immediately whereas if you turn 1 abundant harvest you have to wait until the next turn to make your second land drop, which could be significantly worse in a bunch of spots.

Edit: but a possible upside is that it can allow you to reliably play spells with more varied manacosts e.g. Sterling Grove maybe because you don't have to sac off the green source to find Sanctum

FTW
05-19-2021, 06:30 AM
Not getting Sanctum until 1 turn later is a huge difference in this deck. It's awkward if they have time to Terminus or Toxic Deluge you.

The Land Grant line also commits this deck to having only 1 non-Sanctum mana source, which removes the grindier lines where you can play out 2 fair lands and cast In Search of Greatness into Starfield of Nyx or just play out fair enchantments like Suppression Field, Deafening Silence or Rest in Peace without needing Sanctum in play.

But we don't need a land to cast Abundant Harvest! Elvish Spirit Guide, Lotus Petal, Chancellor of the Tangle and Turntimber Symbiosis also make green on turn 1. The only reason this deck didn't play fast mana before was the need to sacrifice something to Crop Rotation. Now nonland mana sources are viable. That would guarantee Harvest plays turn 1 Sanctum. Fast mana also provides lines this deck never had before: better Daze protection, extra mana to cast Opalescence (sometimes you're 1 short), extra mana to power out turn 1 hate pieces, or sideboard tools like Veil of Summer or Force of Vigor. Extra lands could never do that before. They were so slow for a deck that wants to go off turn 1, but a necessary evil for Crop Rotation.

I like this direction a lot.


//Lands: 4
4 Serra's Sanctum

//Other mana: 8
4 Lotus Petal
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

//Tutors: 10
4 Abundant Harvest
4 Enlightened Tutor
2 Idyllic Tutor

//Leylines: 28
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Leyline of Anticipation
4 Leyline of Combustion
4 Leyline of Punishment
4 Leyline of Vitality
4 Leyline of the Meek

//Other Enchantments: 5
4 Opalescence
1 Banishing Light

//Artifact: 5
4 Serum Powder
1 Helm of Obedience

//Sideboard: 15
4 Chancellor of the Annex
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Banishing Light
2 Deafening Silence
1 Rest in Peace
1 Suppression Field
1 Chrome Mox
1 Emeria's Call


Fast mana + Leyline of Anticipation even enables Turn 0 Suppression Field, which should blow out most Legacy decks if unanswered.
Maybe -4 Leyline + 4 Suppression Field

kombatkiwi
05-19-2021, 06:51 AM
Yeah I like that idea a lot
I just hope that it's consistent enough (Serum Powder?)
Would Chancellor of the Annex be better maindeck than Suppression Field, if you are so all in like this

FTW
05-19-2021, 06:57 AM
Tough to find room for everything. The deck needs a critical mass of Leylines. Serum Powder would have to replace Suppression Field, which would give a better turn 1 goldfish but less interaction.

I find the deck needs some enchantments at 2-3 cc because even when you have Sanctum you don't always have 4 Leylines, especially after a mulligan. A 2-3 cmc enchantment helps bridge the gap to help Sanctum ramp to 4. The fast mana does that too, even when you have Sanctum, which is better than the extra lands ramping to 4 only turns later.

For a 2-3 cmc enchantment anything could do there. I like Suppression Field, especially if you can play it on T1, because it just shuts down so many mana bases and opening hands. Arguably you can hardcast Serum Powder to ramp, so maybe that's just better.

Channex might be better than Grid in the SB. I just wanted something to stop Force. Grid costs a lot of mana though.

kombatkiwi
05-19-2021, 07:03 AM
I find the deck needs some enchantments at 2-3 cc because even when you have Sanctum you don't always have 4 Leylines, especially after a mulligan. A 2-3 cmc enchantment helps bridge the gap to help Sanctum ramp to 4. The fast mana does that too, even when you have Sanctum, which is better than the extra lands ramping to 4 only turns later.

For a 2-3 cmc enchantment anything could do there. I like Suppression Field, especially if you can play it on T1, because it just shuts down so many mana bases and opening hands. Arguably you can hardcast Serum Powder to ramp, so maybe that's just better.


Hmm good point

Like you say hardcast serum powder works

Or you could even put Rune of Sustenance on your own leyline if you think the disruption from suppression field isn't going to matter much and the cantrip gives some extra consistency, there might be a few options (you can also play more Idyllic Tutor instead and fewer cheap enchantments, and Idyllic Tutor for the cheap enchantments if you are stuck on 3 mana

Maybe ill try goldfishing your list later and see how it feels

Mr. Safety
05-19-2021, 08:15 AM
This looks spicy as hell, I love it. I'm not sure how vital it would be, or the complete cost of doing so, but I would think 2x Chrome Mox maindeck would be great. That gives you 14 initial mana sources to do your thing. The card lost to Chrome Mox is a very real cost though, considering you may need to exile a Leyline to make it work. If you have a spare Suppression Field its fine, or just using it as mana instead of protection via Mox if you have a turn 1 combo on the play. If you end up using Chancellor instead of Suppression Field that gives you 4 more cards to imprint on Chrome Mox that don't inhibit your combo. You reveal it to protect, then exile it to Chrome Mox, and you're in business. I could be way off here, but maybe it's a situation where you play Suppression Field main/Chancellor side (or vice versa) depending on matchup. Chancellor is obviously better against Force and can slow down Daze long enough to combo out, but Suppression Field buys you at least 2 extra turns on average (just a guess, I don't know the floor/ceiling of Suppression Field or how matchup dependant it is.)

If I had Serra's Sanctums I would be building this for sure, but the cost is a little prohibitive for a niche combo deck.

FTW
05-19-2021, 09:07 AM
Yeah these are all good ideas worth testing. 4 Serum Powder probably needs to be in the main.

Carpet of Flowers seems insanely good against blue decks. It's basically Sanctums 5-7, immune to Wasteland, and lets you hardcast topdecked off-color Leylines.

I went with 0 Chrome Mox main because going down a card hurts. On average Mox reduces Serra's Sanctum by 1 mana, which defeats the purpose of having a permanent mana source instead of a 1-time source. Imprinting an off-color Leyline is also pretty bad. It could get better postboard with bringing in Chancellors.

An ideal hand needs something like this:
4 Leylines + way to get Opalescence + way to get Serra's Sanctum

In my above list there are 10 ways to get Opalescence (Opal, ETutor, Idyllic Tutor) and 8 ways to get Sanctum (Sanctum, Harvest + green source)
Fast mana, Serum Powder, or a cheap enchantment could also replace the 4th Leyline.

But already that's 6-7 cards needed to do the thing the deck wants to do. Once you start spending 2 cards on a mana source, the hands and mulligans gets worse and lose critical mass to do the main plan.

PS - I only have this in my gauntlet because I bought 4x Serra's Sanctum a decade ago when they were dirt cheap, a poor man's Cradle. Leylines were cheap back then too right after the M11 release. This was a $100 budget deck to build with leftover M11 jank, which is the correct price point for something so cheesy. This is fun but not worth spending $1000 on.

Edit: The Hypergeometric calculator could help determine the optimal split of Leylines, tutors, and mana to get the most functional turn 1 hands.

kombatkiwi
05-27-2021, 08:22 AM
Another brainwave I just had is play court of grace as copies 5-X of Opalesence

Obviously not quite as devastating as attacking immediately with a bunch of leylines but it's still a pretty bonkers play on turn 1 unless your opponent has monastery swiftspear or whatever
Edit: and you also have the g/w leyline that buffs the tokens

Reeplcheep
05-27-2021, 08:42 AM
Another brainwave I just had is play court of grace as copies 5-X of Opalesence

Obviously not quite as devastating as attacking immediately with a bunch of leylines but it's still a pretty bonkers play on turn 1 unless your opponent has monastery swiftspear or whatever

If you always have a sanctum perhaps you can play star field of nyx?

kombatkiwi
05-27-2021, 08:46 AM
If you always have a sanctum perhaps you can play star field of nyx?

Yeah that's also possible but Im thinking that perhaps the threshold from 4 to 5 mana can be significant

Like if you need 5 leylines + sanctum + payoff card compared to 4 leylines + sanctum + payoff card then it has quite a big effect on your ability to mulligan etc

FTW
05-27-2021, 12:29 PM
If you have 4 Leylines + Sanctum, the payoff card can be Idyllic Tutor (finds Opalescence) or Enlightened Tutor (finds Opalescence or Helm of Obedience).

In testing I think there's a bigger bottleneck on mana than on payoffs. It's harder to find Sanctum or to get 4 enchantments to make Sanctum work.

ETutor and Idyllic Tutor not only find payoffs but also help the problem of having Sanctum + only 3 Leylines (tutor for 1-3 cmc enchantment) so I think they're better than playing more payoffs. ETutor is better both for being cheaper and for putting the card on top of library immune to discard.

Getting Sanctum wasted is a real risk. I wonder if the old card Consecrate Land is any good out of the board. It both protects Sanctum and gives +1 mana to help the mana problem.

kombatkiwi
05-28-2021, 03:59 AM
If you have 4 Leylines + Sanctum, the payoff card can be Idyllic Tutor (finds Opalescence) or Enlightened Tutor (finds Opalescence or Helm of Obedience).

In testing I think there's a bigger bottleneck on mana than on payoffs. It's harder to find Sanctum or to get 4 enchantments to make Sanctum work.

ETutor and Idyllic Tutor not only find payoffs but also help the problem of having Sanctum + only 3 Leylines (tutor for 1-3 cmc enchantment) so I think they're better than playing more payoffs. ETutor is better both for being cheaper and for putting the card on top of library immune to discard.

Getting Sanctum wasted is a real risk. I wonder if the old card Consecrate Land is any good out of the board. It both protects Sanctum and gives +1 mana to help the mana problem.

Yup you can play the tutors too
I was just thinking that with e.g. Court you can do something on turn 1, that gives your opponent less time to play a land to have daze up or cantrip into a force etc (or wasteland your sanctum) but maybe that's less of a priority than being able to find a cheaper enchantment

FTW
05-28-2021, 07:39 AM
To beat Wasteland boarding in Consecrate Land might actually be huge tech. It protects Sanctum and boosts by +1 mana to get you from 3 to 4 mana for the payoff. Carpet of Flowers should help too. Ideally you would just cast your payoff turn 1 and not care about Wasteland, but they could have FoW or FoN and then you lose to Wasteland. On the draw they could also have Daze or Pierce.

For a while I played Heliod, God of the Sun as an alternate win condition. This is sneaky because it's an enchantment but Leyline of Lifeforce makes it uncounterable! No Force or Daze! Then Sanctum taps for 1 cat token per turn (boosted by Leyline of Vitality and Leyline of the Meek). The cats are enchantments so eventually you get 2 per turn. With 2 white Leylines Heliod can attack too! Opalescence makes a noncreature Heliod into a 4/4 indestructible.

Court of Grace could do the same making 4/4 Angels, but it's counterable. And what happens if you lose the Monarch? Especially on the draw vs a turn 1 creature. Meanwhile this deck has a lot of dead topdecks so drawing more cards isn't that good.

gngpostalsrvc
07-19-2021, 11:22 AM
Does Paladin Class have a place in the deck as either a replacement for or supplement to Chancellor of the Annex? Unlike Chancellor, it powers up Sanctum, synergizes with the beat-down plan, is a permanent effect, and is tutorable. It does, however, require an initial mana investment of :w:.

FTW
07-19-2021, 11:36 AM
Paladin Class looks great! The effect is worse than Defense Grid, but costing only 1 mana, boosting Sanctum, and providing a mana sink are all useful.

gngpostalsrvc
07-19-2021, 11:50 AM
Woo-hoo! Tier 17 here we come!


Paladin Class looks great! The effect is worse than Defense Grid, but costing only 1 mana, boosting Sanctum, and providing a mana sink are all useful.