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View Full Version : The Other Tog - A little help on stablizing this ?



Banelich
12-06-2007, 03:16 AM
Ok, 1st off I know this is not going to be as good as a Pyschatog deck, my expectations are not that high. As this deck is it has quite a few cards with great synergy, but plays horribly against swarm, aggro and heavy control.

The Deck as it stands;

Lands
4 Flooded Strand
2 Windswept Heath
4 Tundra
3 Savannah
3 Tropical Island
4 Island
4 Plains


Creatures
3 Phantatog
1 Wonder


Spells
4 Standstill
4 Hatching Plans
2 Decree of Silence
4 Seal of Removal
3 Rancor
3 Living Wish
4 Deep Analysis
4 Replenish
4 Circular Logic


Sideboard
SB: 2 Argothian Enchantress
SB: 2 Enchantress's Presence
SB: 3 Chill
SB: 3 Genju of the Falls
SB: 3 Spreading Algae
SB: 1 Form of the Dragon
SB: 1 Phantatog


Most cards in this deck as it is are up for debate, or are just experimental filler to begin with.
so far test runs with this build on MWS have been ugly when pitted against swarm, aggro and heavy control, as mentioned.

On the other hand Standstill for stall -vs- draw tactics, (which can actually be eaten by this tog) coupled with the amazing hatching plans + Tog =+1/+1 & 3 card advantage, isnt to bad. The thing that leads me to believe this deck might actually have potential is the consistancy I've had in pulling off a Replenish by turn 5-7, usually after stalling opponent, and every time I've done this it has yeilded;
1 decree
1-3 standstill
1-3 hatching plans
1-3 seal of removal

This usually spells endgame. Perhaps a little help with the 3 archenemies ?

Cavius The Great
12-06-2007, 08:35 AM
I love the synergy between hatching plans and phantatog. maybe some day they will print an additional enchantment that makes Phantatog more broken than Pyschatog, who knows. I like the idea, have you considered Exploration and Fertile Ground? It seems like they would help immensively.

Nihil Credo
12-06-2007, 10:14 AM
Auratogs, much? At the very least as a backup.

rufus
12-06-2007, 10:16 AM
Some cards you could consider:
Wild Research
Ghostly Prison/Propaganda?
Multani's Presence
City of Solitude
In the Eye of Chaos

A bit whackier:
Opalesence
Parralax Tide
Parralax Wave

You're also not really doing that much discarding - is this really that much better than running Auratog?

raharu
12-06-2007, 04:06 PM
You're also not really doing that much discarding - is this really that much better than running Auratog?

Replenish? Phantatog + Replinish = good game 90% of the time (or at least is should)

Banelich
12-07-2007, 12:35 AM
So Far.................

Add Exploration and Fertile Ground, thought of these as well as possibly wildgrowth and / or overgrowth, none made the cut & aren't really necessary unless against crucible AND wasteslands at the same time.

I have considered using a few other creatures as backup, Auratogs on the list but couldn't switch them outright for Phantatog as I need the pitch for decree's, wonder, and I usually have a backup copy of standstill in hand as well as in play right b4 I play Replenish. (Have also considered Genesis, but too slow)

Propaganda & Multani's Presence are both considerations, I had actually thought of Props before, but at 3 mana...goblins are already chewin down your doorsteps.

Wild Research & Solitary confinement lose hand advantage which seems kinda bad

The creature count is higher than someone noticed, 3 togs + 1 tog SB + 3 wish + 2 enchantress SB, but I think you're all right I might go with 2-3 Auratogs MD.

As for Cantivore....the first half of his name says it all "Cant"....... I drop a replenish he dies, or at the very least shrinks to the size of # enchant in opponent's grave only. I usually don't have more than 4 - 5 enchants in grave, then play replenish 5-7 turn average. With this average "Cant" would be a 3cc 4/4 or 5/5 for 1 to 2 turns then be garbage.



......... A number of good ideas, seriously considering the Multani's Presence for SB, a few Auratogs and maybe 1-2 WoG MD..........

Mostly trying to keep the deck 2cc to 3cc (Decree & Form of the Dragon don't count) with a few 4cc maybe (Replenish a must, WoG possibly)

Don't want cards that detract from hand advantage aside from the Tog itself as that's the #1 killsource after a replenish (& sometimes without)

Other than that, thanks one and all for the imput so far and & Keep it comin.

Arsenal
12-07-2007, 12:40 AM
Would Attunement have a home in this deck? With Replenish, I can definitely see how it could work to filter your hand/dump stuff into 'yard.

Banelich
12-07-2007, 12:57 AM
lol....


Attunment...love that card...but no, +3 card -4 card = -1 card disadvantage, seems bad still


no... Someone else might make a build of this with attunement, but as for me, my 2 attunements will stay in my reanimator deck next to the careful studies, bringer of the white dawn's and mindslavers (I'm sick like that)

Arsenal
12-07-2007, 02:57 PM
The more I look at this deck, the more I like it. Definitely has potential to be a competitive "fun" deck that might even surprise a few people and steal some wins.

Outside of Seal of Removal, we're not running much removal. This will pose a problem when your opponent is beating you down with his Goblins, Thresh creatures, random aggro, etc... And doesn't this deck need to buy time until it has (1.) enough mana to play it's spells, (2.) enough enchantments in yard and/or in play, and (3.) a way to protect Phantatog from removal? I only see Ciruclar Logic and Decree of Silence for protection, and Decree is situational at best.

largebrandon
12-07-2007, 04:31 PM
Try Oblivion Ring. With Tog in play, play ring, then in response to its CIP ability, sac it. That way, the permanent will be removed forever!

Banelich
12-07-2007, 05:24 PM
Few questions:
- blue deck without FoW. Is that possible?

- I would definitely play some number of Cities of Solitude maindeck.

Tried the cities...not real practical in this deck surprizingly.



The more I look at this deck, the more I like it. Definitely has potential to be a competitive "fun" deck that might even surprise a few people and steal some wins.

Outside of Seal of Removal, we're not running much removal. This will pose a problem when your opponent is beating you down with his Goblins, Thresh creatures, random aggro, etc... And doesn't this deck need to buy time until it has (1.) enough mana to play it's spells, (2.) enough enchantments in yard and/or in play, and (3.) a way to protect Phantatog from removal? I only see Ciruclar Logic and Decree of Silence for protection, and Decree is situational at best.


Bingo Arsenal ! You hit the nail on the head...thats why I created this thread... and what I need help / suggestions with. Other than your statement about Decree being situational at best... I disagree, mainly because it was never ment for anything other than Tog + Replenish = Endgame to begin with.

The "O" Ring tricks sounds like fun but might prove to be a little to combo-ish for an already "choppy" running deck, though I still might try it for a laugh.

Cavius The Great
12-07-2007, 08:21 PM
If you really fear aggro that much, just run cards like Propaganda, Elephant Grass and Ghostly Prison. You can even try Moat and sac the moat to Phantatog right before a massive attack which you'll know you'll win on that very turn.

Banelich
12-28-2007, 05:58 PM
Well, Ive been working on this deck a bit more, its still no Psychatog, but it has been doing pretty well oddly enough. This is the more revised and current deck list.

LANDS
4x Tundra
4x Flooded Strand
8x Island
8x Plains


CREATURES
2x Auratog
3x Phantatog


SPELLS
4x Standstill
4x Hatching Plans
4x Seal of Removal
3x Oblivion Ring
2x Decree of Silence
4x Circular Logic
4x Replenish
4x Deep Analysis
2x Hurkyl's Recall


SIDEBOARD
1x Phantatog
3x Propaganda
3x Solitary Confinement
3x Chill
2x Warmth
1x Decree of Silence
2x Form of the Dragon


THANKS 2;
sasa_batora - Addition of a couple of Auratogs (which were thought of but cut from original) were definately needed. Solitary Confinement, also good in this deck, though they are only in the SB for now, they have come in handy.

rufus - Hadn't originally planned on using Propaganda, but it does come in handy since the deck has been changed up, though still not quick enough to deal with goblins usually.

largebrandon - The addition of 3 Oblivian Rings in MD has far exceeded expectations (though it grows tiresome to explain how opponents jank gets RFG permanently if I sac it to a Tog on the CiP)

And for those of you reading this....yes I know that having 2 Hurkyl's Recall in the MD when some of the SB options seem better for those MD slots just seems plainly insane.... but you might be surprized at how useful they are at times...other times they are just food for a Phantatog & SB'ed for the following games.

Banelich
03-10-2008, 08:40 AM
This is definately a fun little rogue deck that not many ppl see comin.

I haven't played this in awhile been working on other stuff. That and the fact I got tired of explaining to every noob on MWS how the O-ring / Tog combo is legal. <sytem> player lost..... lol

I never kept specific stats of matchs, but can tell you that aggro is rough, heavy creature control hurts, and if the standstill stall works, most people never see a cycled Decree of Silence comin.

As for the lack of Goyf ..I hope you're looking at post #16 for the decklist not the first one.

Anyways ....if you do try this deck, play it a few times as is on post #16 to get an idea of what to tweek. if you come up with anything thereafter post it or email me at least.

Elfrago
03-20-2008, 07:05 AM
Some random thoughts:

- Zero CMC = 1 cards, you could add some Brainstorms or Ponders.

- If the stanstill lock is so important, then you can add some Manlands.

- Maindeck Hurkyll's??????

- Is Circular Logic realy better than FOW, you have very few discard outlets.

Media314r8
03-20-2008, 10:08 AM
Here's my take:

// Lands
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [B] Island (2)
1 [B] Plains (2)
3 [B] Tropical Island
3 [B] Savannah
1 [B] Forest (1)
3 [ON] Windswept Heath
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (4)
1 [B] Tundra

// Creatures
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
1 [TSB] Auratog
3 [OD] Phantatog

// Spells
3 [DIS] Utopia Sprawl
3 [ON] Enchantress's Presence
3 [NE] Seal of Removal
4 [OD] Standstill
4 [GP] Hatching Plans
2 [SC] Decree of Silence
2 [UD] Replenish
3 [UL] Rancor
3 [FUT] Glittering Wish
1 [US] Exploration
4 [AL] Force of Will

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [OD] Phantatog
SB: 1 [RAV] Loxodon Hierarch
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 [TSP] Harmonic Sliver
SB: 1 [VI] Femeref Enchantress
SB: 4 [CH] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 [IN] Dueling Grounds
SB: 1 [IN] Sterling Grove


Beat gobs and burn, but only 2 matches on MWS so far.

Media314r8
03-20-2008, 10:25 AM
On second thought, in both matches i did wish the presence was something else, so I'm thinking:

-3 presence
-1 exploration

+4 brainstorm

this gives it less of a 'bad enchantress' feel, and more of a 'bad UGw thresh' feel, but still gives it the possibility of the wish -> enchantress (either tog + rancor + enchantress = G: +2/+2, trample, draw a card)

Cavius The Great
03-25-2008, 01:53 PM
Needs more Stasis. Just think about how good that would be at the EOT step against your opponent, when you sac it to your Tog. It's almost like a Time Walk. :wink: