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View Full Version : Heartache - Former T2 - Worth Converting to 1.5?



Banelich
12-08-2007, 03:22 AM
I loved this deck immensely for the three whole weeks it was tourny legal. I never was much of a fan of T2, but was working on 1.5 tourny nights back then. At the time T2 was owned by Tooth and Nail, with Mono-Red & Deathcloud running a close second. I came in 2nd place, losing to a Deathcloud deck week one, after which I added Goryo's Vengeance to the SB, then came in 1st the following 2 weeks. The looks on peoples faces when they realized they had just been utterly destroyed by a combo deck in T2 was priceless, (not that I needed the combo to win.) Because I liked this deck so much from those days I'd like to see it in 1.5, but not sure what to do with it if anything other than maybe bury it in the back of my mind.

Any ideas and or help (or even rude comments about how bad of an idea this is to try in Legacy) would be much appreciated.

Heartache

Lands

18x Mountain
4x City of Brass

Creatures
4x Heartless Hidetsugu
4x Arc-Slogger

Artifacts
3x Chrome Mox
1x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Chromatic Sphere

Other
4x Serum Visions

4x Seething Song
4x Desperate Ritual

2x Pulse of the Forge
2x Shrapnel Blast
2x Lava Spike

4x Furnace of Rath



Sideboard
2x Flames of the Blood Hand
3x Magma Jet
3x Circle of Protection: Red
2x Naturalize
2x Echoing Truth
3x Goryo's Vengeance


This deck played out really fast, the main idea is to combo off someone with Heartless Hidetsugu (DAMAGE = to ....) & Furnace of Rath, usually 3rd or 4th turn, using City of Brass, Shrapnel Blast, Lava Spike to regulate who's life total is an even number and who's is at an odd number when heartless kicks off.

The problem with Legacy is -vs- burn (the CoP-red might work) and -vs- counter control.

If I do adapt this to 1.5
Lava Spike > Lightning bolts,
-1 or -2 Arc-Sloggers,
add a few cheaper creatures...
and totally revamping the SB would be obvious, but what then?

Atwa
12-08-2007, 03:35 AM
I have no time to test it now, but some choises I would make to have a starting point:

Cut City of Brass and Chromatic Sphere and make the manabase more stable.

Cut Scapnel Blast and replace it with Price of Progress.

I'm not too sure about the blue splash in general, but if you want cantrips, play Brainstorm with fetches and/or Ponder.

Banelich
12-08-2007, 03:38 AM
City of Brass is an absolute necessity for the combo, unless I add something else to damage myself.

Willoe
12-09-2007, 09:49 AM
sweet, but I got to ask a rules question as well as my critique:

if both of you are at an even number of life, who is the person that dies first and therefore loses the game? I would mean it was the active player. If it so, then you really got to watch out for STP, lightning bolt, or some other life-changing instant. Opponent can save himself by responding with STP on his own creature with an odd amount of life or bolt you in response. Then you will both be at 1 (or, with two lifechaning effects, he can win and you can suicide) , and from that point, all you can do is trying to let some burn slip through before he zaps you. Isn't the combo a pretty dangerous wincon? For the theme addition (and for deck playability), wouldn't hidetsegu's second rite be perfect when playing a control deck. Stall the game, halve each life when at twenty and rite the opponent into oblivion? If the opponent damages himself from fetches, grove of the burnwillows could help you? How does that sound?

Cait_Sith
12-09-2007, 10:31 AM
If both player's life totals hit 0 (or less) at the same time, they lose at the same time, and the game is a draw.

Seriously, you don't want City of Brass. If you want to hurt yourself a little bit, use Bloodstained Mire/Wooded Foothills.

Furnace is terrible in Legacy. If you want to try to burn people out, you can use Flames of the Blood Hand, Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, and Lava Spike.

Banelich
12-09-2007, 11:13 AM
...... Isn't the combo a pretty dangerous wincon? For the theme addition (and for deck playability), wouldn't hidetsegu's second rite be perfect when playing a control deck.

Yea I realize this, thats why its debatable to try turn this into a 1.5, in T2 when I was playing this, there wasn't crap for burn in red other than pulse and magma jet, and the only answer to this currently is CoP-red in the SB. As for hidetsegu's second rite, that was part of the original deck when I was testing it and stubled across the Hidetsegu / Furnace combo. Second Rite SUCKED it testing. 10 dmg for 4cc sounds hella good, but it way too conditional.


Seriously, you don't want City of Brass. If you want to hurt yourself a little bit, use Bloodstained Mire/Wooded Foothills. .

Good call.


Furnace is terrible in Legacy. If you want to try to burn people out, you can use Flames of the Blood Hand, Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, and Lava Spike.

Bad call. I know how bad furnace is in legacy, its 1/2 the point of the deck though, and the #1 win-con, though not the only. Drop Hidetsegu, next turn drop a furnace, tap Hidetsegu = WIN

outsideangel
12-09-2007, 03:43 PM
Drop Hidetsegu, next turn drop a furnace, tap Hidetsegu = WIN

Is there some interaction I'm missing that would stop this play from also killing you, causing the game to be a draw?

Nihil Credo
12-09-2007, 04:12 PM
Is there some interaction I'm missing that would stop this play from also killing you, causing the game to be a draw?
You need to have an odd life total while your opponent is at an even one - Hidetsugu rounds down, meaning you'll be left at 1 while your opponent is at zero. If the stars align just right.

I think a smart opponent, if he can't deal with Hidetsugu, will at least manaburn to stay at an odd life total the turn after you play that.

Media314r8
12-09-2007, 04:18 PM
Or keep a fetchland/ lightning bolt/ fire ice (one to him to put him at odd with furnace on the stack, and one to you to put you at even.)

Banelich
12-09-2007, 04:22 PM
I think a smart opponent, if he can't deal with Hidetsugu, will at least manaburn to stay at an odd life total the turn after you play that.

Right, that was my thought prior to playing it in T2 tourny's...... it worked well in T2 as a rogue deck because Hidetsugu came out, one turn later I drop a furnace and its game over instantly, mana burn takes place at the end of the phases. This surpize element only works 1 game against a smart opponent. Subsequent games I rarely played furnace, usually SB it, and end up using Hidetsugu @ the end of opponents turn, then again during my main phase followed with burn & / slogger and such.

Like I said I don't even know if its worth converting to 1.5, but CoP - Red might make it work.

snoopYah
12-09-2007, 04:34 PM
You could use Grove of the Burnwillows to negate mana burn, and I think Shivan Reef > Fetch, because it's easier to make your life even, when opponent plays something like Bolt or Swords in response.

outsideangel
12-09-2007, 06:13 PM
You need to have an odd life total while your opponent is at an even one - Hidetsugu rounds down, meaning you'll be left at 1 while your opponent is at zero. If the stars align just right.

I think a smart opponent, if he can't deal with Hidetsugu, will at least manaburn to stay at an odd life total the turn after you play that.

A two-card combo that costs OVER 9000! mana and can be disrupted by a basic land doesn't seem viable in this format.