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soundwave123
12-13-2007, 12:18 PM
Well I've been bored and decided to see if it was possible to revive the old breakfast deck. This is not my design I litterally copied and pasted the list from an old list from a tournament report. The list contains the usual cards like Volrath's Shapeshifter which says

UU:1:
As long as Volrath's Shapeshifter is in play and the top card of your graveyard is a creature card, Volrath's Shapeshifter has the full text of that card and has the text "{2}: Discard a card." (Volrath's Shapeshifter has that card's name, mana cost, color, types, abilities, power, and toughness.)
0/1

And survival of the fitest as the engine to enable this power house of a creature. The idea of the deck is to power out birds of paradise first turn then survival of the fittest turn two, discard random creature to find squee. After that depending on your hand usually discard squee to find Volrath's Shapeshifter. Turn 3 discard squee to find hypnox then discard that to find akroma and cast out volrath. The main win condition is to have volrath out and survival discard akroma to find phage the untouchable, swing, before damage on the stack discard phage and win. The other interesting addition to this deck which I've still yet to ubuse to its fullest extent is Teferi. The question being if he is in graveyard on top and volrath is in hand... does he have flash?

To my knowledge this deck hasn't truely been tweaked or tried for quite sometime and with the new sets I was curious if anyone could assist me in making it tier 2 or maybe tier 1. One thing to start up the discussion of the thread would be split second... if there is a split second creature on the top of grave does volrath retain that ability and can't be countered?


Creatures [24]

1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
4 Birds of Paradise
1 Eternal Witness
1 Hypnox
1 Cephalid Inkshrouder
1 Phage the Untouchable
1 Platinum Angel
1 Psychatog
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Uktabi Orangutan
4 Volrath's Shapeshifter
1 Wall of Blossoms
4 Wall of Roots
1 Withered Wretch

Instant [10]

4 Brainstorm
2 Enlightened Tutor
4 Force of Will

Enchantment [4]

4 Survival of the Fittest

Land [22]

2 Bayou
3 Flooded Strand
3 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Island
1 Savannah
4 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
4 Windswept Heath

Sideboard:

4 Meddling Mage
4 Engineered Plague
1 Genesis
1 True Believer
1 Loaming Shaman
1 Loxodon Hierarch
2 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Kataki, War's Wage

diffy
12-13-2007, 12:41 PM
Not having played the deck ever, but here're some general remarks:



1 Hypnox


This should be something else as if you got a Shapeshifter/Survival to stick, you don't need the random discard as your opponent doesn't have anything to stop you (if he had a Counter or something, he'd countered Shifter/Survival).



1 Uktabi Orangutan


You run white so there's no reason not to play Harmonic Sliver (http://magiccards.info/ts/en/240.html) in this slot.



1 Wall of Blossoms


One random Wall of Blossoms doesn't sound good as you're never going to survival for one. I'd rather play some more tutors/protection in this slot.



1 Platinum Angel


This should be something else too as its too slow to be of use against combo (even if you get it down/shifted, they can just Burning Wish for Shattering Spree and kill you) and useless against anything else (they can easily remove it) or you'd rather have something else (like go for the combo).

I'd play some tutor target to remove creatures in this slot, Shriekmaw (http://magiccards.info/lw/en/139.html), or focus more on the combo/getting a Survival down and play another Cabal Therapy.

So basically I'd advocate cutting 1 Hypnox and 1 Wall of Blossoms for more protection, maybe Cabal Therapy (good synergy with random mana critters like Birds or Wall of Roots).
I'd also replace that Teferi (5 mana is alot) and the Platinum Angel with another 2 Therapies.

-1 Hypnox
-1 Wall of Blossoms
-1 Teferi
-1 Platinum Angel
+4 Cabal Therapy

Cabal Therapy helps in nearly all your matchups, clearing the way for Survival/Shifter and buying time against combo.



Sideboard:


I'd cut one those Teferis for more discard. You clearly want to win the control matchup and something like Cabal Therapy or Thoughtseize is just better/faster for forcing that Survival/Shifter and doesn't give your opponent infinited turns to find his outs (Humility etc).

Sanguine Voyeur
12-13-2007, 12:47 PM
There's a semi-recent thread about Full English Breakfast over here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?p=180509#post180509).

Skub
12-13-2007, 01:18 PM
I don't think that your VS will have flash if Teferi is on top of your graveyard. The VS only copies when it comes into play and not before. I guess the same thing goes for split second. Flash and Slit Second would only work if the VS could copy before it comes into play. Since it does not, it won't work.

Adding discard or more counters (at least 7) will protect your combo. Also having a back plan is needed to make this deck better. For example adding goys or efreets to the deck.

psionicblast88
12-13-2007, 02:35 PM
Kodama of the North Tree is always a nice option to have in FEB as a 1 of, Tarmogoyf probably is too.

Skub
12-13-2007, 05:28 PM
An Simic Sky Swallower would be an better addtion. Also flying. In fact he could replace Cephalid. VS can still be targeted before when it changes form. However than the combo takes one extra green mana.

C.P.
12-13-2007, 10:58 PM
I'd run intuition to help out the combo.

Also, you can make your package slim by cutting out flashy tricks.

My take would be:



4 Volrath's Shapeshifter
1 Phage the Untouchable
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath

4 Birds of Paradise

4 Tarmogoyf
3 Mesmeric Fiend
2 Eternal Witness
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Uktabi Orangutan
1 Stern Proctor

4 Brainstorm
4 Intuition
4 Cabal Therapy

4 Survival of the Fittest


4 Tropical Island
3 Bayou
1 Underground Sea

4 Polluted Delta
4 Windswept Heath

3 Forest
1 Island
1 Swamp

2 Chrome Mox


I removed the tutors since it did nothing but fetching the Survival. Also, I cut most of tricks to make sure I function without Survival. You can even cut Akroma for spirit of night or something like that, so it would pitch to mox. The walls are out for the mox, so you can have the mana bit faster if needed, and you also can pitch dead cards. I cut force because of low blue count, and I thought theraphy would work better with the deck. Intuition + Theraphy = Good.

Also, I cut the colors, just to make sure I have outs against something likw blood moon, as well being able to stand up to wasteland, but I might miss white (Harmonic Sliver, mostly).

What I do not like is the toolbox, I need something that's better than proctor and Sex Monkey, but could not think of any right now.

EDIT: I forgot genesis, which probably should be 2nd witness.

soundwave123
12-14-2007, 12:39 PM
I'd run intuition to help out the combo.

Also, you can make your package slim by cutting out flashy tricks.

My take would be:



4 Volrath's Shapeshifter
1 Phage the Untouchable
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath

4 Birds of Paradise

4 Tarmogoyf
3 Mesmeric Fiend
2 Eternal Witness
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Uktabi Orangutan
1 Stern Proctor

4 Brainstorm
4 Intuition
4 Cabal Therapy

4 Survival of the Fittest


4 Tropical Island
3 Bayou
1 Underground Sea

4 Polluted Delta
4 Windswept Heath

3 Forest
1 Island
1 Swamp

2 Chrome Mox


I removed the tutors since it did nothing but fetching the Survival. Also, I cut most of tricks to make sure I function without Survival. You can even cut Akroma for spirit of night or something like that, so it would pitch to mox. The walls are out for the mox, so you can have the mana bit faster if needed, and you also can pitch dead cards. I cut force because of low blue count, and I thought theraphy would work better with the deck. Intuition + Theraphy = Good.

Also, I cut the colors, just to make sure I have outs against something likw blood moon, as well being able to stand up to wasteland, but I might miss white (Harmonic Sliver, mostly).

What I do not like is the toolbox, I need something that's better than proctor and Sex Monkey, but could not think of any right now.

EDIT: I forgot genesis, which probably should be 2nd witness.

I don't know whether chrome mox would be the right way to take it but I'll test it out. I know there are alot of "tricks" in the original build and that has dawned on me to change to more consitant spots. The one thing I want to make sure is still in though is hypnox... I have found that resolving hypnox/shapeshifter can be game in itself. Pretty much an alternate kill. With extirpate running around I could only imagine what would happen if phage got extirpated.

C.P.
12-14-2007, 05:36 PM
I don't know whether chrome mox would be the right way to take it but I'll test it out. I know there are alot of "tricks" in the original build and that has dawned on me to change to more consitant spots. The one thing I want to make sure is still in though is hypnox... I have found that resolving hypnox/shapeshifter can be game in itself. Pretty much an alternate kill. With extirpate running around I could only imagine what would happen if phage got extirpated.

You beat them down with goyf in my build.

TheLion
12-14-2007, 06:52 PM
There's a semi-recent thread about Full English Breakfast over here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?p=180509#post180509).

Yes, right... I opened a month ago... could a mod please merge both threads?

Skub
12-15-2007, 04:38 AM
I'd run intuition to help out the combo

Seems fragile, how would you use it?

C.P.
12-15-2007, 02:59 PM
Seems fragile, how would you use it?

Better than E. tutor at least.

You can Intuition for:

Survival/Survival/Survival
Shifter/Shifter/Shifter

Any 1 card you need/Witness/Witness
Squee/Genesis/anything that you want in the GY
Therapy/Therapy/Therapy

It is basically your secondary tutor when survival is not available.

Skub
12-16-2007, 05:07 PM
I like your list, C.P.. It looks more solid than other versions. I also think that discard works better than with a blue splash. It's easier to push your combo. A bit of a similar list can be found here (http://www.germagic.de/dc/deck.php?id=1831). Allthough I still think that this list in this link can be improved because it doesn't have a back up plan. In your list I didn't see a psychatog or Gigapede / SSS. Could be an addition.

Choobak
01-03-2008, 10:38 AM
just a question : is it possible to mix the combo with a clasical reanimator UB with 3 akroma, 3 spirit of the night and animate dead ?

TheLion
01-04-2008, 03:33 AM
You could give a try. Though i wouldnt run 3 akroma + 3 spirit. I suggest Toolbox creatures, that help you out of situations, like Blazing Archon, Voidstone Gargoyle or Sundering Titan.
But I think it would lose constistancy...

BTW: i tested Repeal in this deck (idea from UB Reanimator thread), and it seems good. Buys time against aggro and removes threads like needle and mage, help to search Survival, and pitches to FoW.
And I've cut discard in favor for Counterspells, since it is more consistant.

nupert
01-04-2008, 12:47 PM
just a question : is it possible to mix the combo with a clasical reanimator UB with 3 akroma, 3 spirit of the night and animate dead ?

I think the current errata on Animate Dead will not allow you to recur either of those with it. With the current errata, you have to sacrifice the creature you recured with Animate Dead, not the creature it enchants.

Skub
01-13-2008, 02:37 PM
I am really struggeling with the idea of how to make FEB more consistent. What ideas do you have?

This is my version of FEB after some paytesting at a couple of tournaments. C.P. came up with some good ideas. It can still be improved. The goyf's are a nice addition. A second tutor is need if survival is not online. Perhaps intuition can help. I also tried unearth. It works great if survival is in play. Otherwise is a dead card. One single tradewind rider helped a lot. Mesmeric fiends work also great but cabal therapy seems to be more effective.

4 tropical island
3 bayou
5 forest
4 wooded foothills
2 windswept heath

4 birds of paradise
3 wall of roots
3 quirion ranger
3 volrath's shapeshifter
1 akroma, angel of wrath
1 phage, the untouchable
1 psychatog
1 genesis
1 squee, goblin nabob
1 gigapede
1 tradewind rider
3 tarmogoyf

4 survival of the fittest
4 brainstorm
4 duress
3 cabal therapy
2 intuition
2 chrome mox

rufus
01-13-2008, 05:51 PM
You could play Volrath's Shapeshifter as an ersatz Stifle/Trickbind for avoiding CIP effects, and run the deck as a sort of Dreadnought combo deck.

Animate Dead does not attach to prot black creatures, so it just pops them into play.

Skub
01-14-2008, 01:25 PM
Than you would need 3-4 stifle and 3-4 trickbind in order to make sure that you draw one. This takes alot of space in your deck and leaves less room for disruption, tutor, etc. I think it's better to make it a separated deck.