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Maveric78f
12-14-2007, 11:15 AM
This card is obviously overpowered. Once into play, nothing can be done by your opponent to prevent your from putting a fattie into play. More often, you will even have the opportunity to put several of them into play.

I googled for some attempts that have been done with hunting ground and found nothing relevant (I mean with at least savannahs and tarmogoyfs inside, which are obviously autoincluded). That's why I started myself building this deck methodically.

1/ How dod I feed the graveyard ?
- street wraith is a bomb. Feed the yard in early game and is a fair evasive creature to put into play with an operationnal hunting ground.
- 8*baubles are your friends. As a great fan of the baublestalker deck, I find them very useful and I know that turn 3 threshold is reached very easily on turn 3 with them.
- tons of fetches 8-10

2/ How do I add consistency ?
- Glittering Wish will search for hunting ground, a fattie or a solution
- Eladamri's call will enable to reduce the fattie's count and will be playable in response to an hunting ground trigger
- SW and baubles add consistency (even if they make your opening hand sometimes unreadable : what to do with 4*baubles + 2 lands + 1 SW in hand ? Difficult to say...)
- I play castable creatures : tarmogoyf and mystic enforcer (half castable, I concede)

3/ What are my unfair and tutorable creatures ?
- Akroma, angel of wrath : still the best creature in the game
- Phantom Nishoba : good against aggro
- SSS : untargettability is good

4/ A turn 3 graveyard based combo that does not win the game instantly is bad. How to improve that ? With control of course.
- Glittering Wish is already a very good control card that can search for vindicate, deed, crime/punishment, gaddock, duelling ground, and harmonic sliver
- MD Vindicate and Deeds are completely coherent with the deck.

5/ What about the mana base ?
- 18 lands are far enough as the deck is virtually 48 cards, it means that the deck has virtually 22,5 lands
- 8-10 fetches for the threshold
- A lot of basics

The list :

Combo : 15
3 Hunting Grounds
4 Urza's Bauble
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Street Wraith

Control : 9
3 Vindicate
2 Pernicious Deed
4 Thoughtseize

Tutors : 8
4 Glittering Wish
4 Eladamri's Call

Creatures : 10
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Mystic Enforcer
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Phantom Nishoba
1 Gaddock Teeg

Lands : 18
4 windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Swamp
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
3 Savannah

SB :
1 Hunting Ground
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Vindicate
1 Crime/Punishment
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Duelling Ground
3 Gaddock Teeg
1 Phantom Nishoba
1 Mystic Enforcer
4 Duress

Too MD slots have been deleted to keep the deck 60 cards : 1*deed and 1*Enforcer. It is debatable and something else could have been deleted. I never tested the deck yet but it looks competitive to me and I posted it in order to give a more global brainstorm about the card hunting ground. Feel free to propose a completely different build of a hunting ground centered deck.

Cavius The Great
12-14-2007, 11:37 AM
This deck looks solid maveric. You're my favorite deckbuilder besides myself. :wink: But where's the Simic Sky Swallower? it should be atleast in the SB as a wish target. I also have a rules question, do 187 creatures trigger off of Hunting Grounds? If so, I would look into that. Hypnox and Thunder Dragon come to mind.

Soto
12-14-2007, 11:57 AM
No Darksteel Colossus?

Maveric78f
12-14-2007, 12:22 PM
Thanx for the award Cavius, even if on The Source, I always wonder if people are messing my name with Maverick676, another poster...

About your question, the CiP abomoties trigger but it often depends on the wording. For instance Hypnox :
When Hypnox comes into play, if you played it from your hand, remove all cards in target opponent's hand from the game.
With Hunting Ground, I do not PLAY it, and even if it comes from my hand, it won't trigger.

With Thunder Dragon :
When Thunder Dragon comes into play, it deals 3 damage to each creature without flying.
Consequently, it will trigger. However I don't like it.

About SSS, you're right, I forgot it. I'm not compeltely sure it deserves its slot though. As k u j a proposed, darksteel colossus is also possible, as well as a lot of other big guys like the vindicate on legs 5/5 flyer (can't remeber its name).

Cavius The Great
12-14-2007, 12:30 PM
I know who you are Maveric. :wink:

As for Thunder Dragon, I have to disagree. It's a "virtual" Pernicious Deed on legs. It's good against alot of decks.

Darksteel Colossus does seem cool, by I think SSS is much better since it can't be StP'ed. Sure, it has a smaller body, but it's a way more superior card IMO.

And the card you're thinking about, I think, is Angel of Despair. It's gold too so it's a sweet wish target as well.

rufus
12-14-2007, 01:02 PM
Why not push the multi-color theme a little bit more with Supply//Demand? If you're already playing a multi-color toolbox, you can go through the deck as well. Although I guess Supply//Demand has negative synergy with Gaddock Teeg.

For absurd serial tutoring, does Zur the Enchanter make sense in your deck?

Meddling Mage is a gerically solid card, and dovetails nicely with both of the tutoring techs your using, and meets your need for control. Seems like it could be worth a sideboard or MD slot.

Since the Tarmogoyf and Hunting Grounds are both weak when graveyards are emtpy, it seems like you might be better off with something like Doran the Seige Tower (notably also multi-colored...)

Isamaru
12-14-2007, 04:05 PM
The old Hunting Grounds decks used Mystic Snake to counter the spell that triggered the Hunting Grounds...

I find the Evoke creatures are excellent with Deathrender and Hideaway, so consider them here. The reason is that they are fatties that still have early-game use.

I think that you need to focus more on that instead of random fat-wins. If possible, take out the non-castable fatties (SSS and maybe Akroma, but leave Nishoba for sure) for fatties that are still playable early like Mulldrifterx4 and Shriekmawx4.

It's too bad white didn't get a good Evoke creature...

I would play Cabal Therapy or Duress over Thoughtseize here, as you are losing a lot of life.

burkey_boy
12-14-2007, 07:41 PM
i tested a deck like this years ago.
the problem is, if they get one creature out before you get your thresh grounds... you are buggered.

everytimes they were slow i won, if they were quick i lost...

Slag
12-14-2007, 08:01 PM
I've always wanted to run survival of the fittest and hunting grounds in a deck. That way you can activate survival with the hunting trigger on the stack, getting an answer to the spell just played. Survival is also good by its lonesome, so you aren't dependent on getting the hunting grounds and threshold.

Maveric78f
12-15-2007, 04:43 AM
burley boy : no offense, but I think that your build was poor if you had no solution against a creature into play... If you read my list, I have 5 removal MD + 8 tutors + 6 castable big creatures and I play a virtually 48 cards deck.

Slag : I don't think the survival option is compatible with the bauble/SW build because we'd miss some place. The problem with survival is that you will be too dependent on it to get the threshold. That means that you would have a 2-cards combo although it's only a 1-card combo in my deck. You can give it a try though.

largebrandon
12-15-2007, 10:09 AM
Why not have some Free Counterspells like Mystic Snake or Draining Welk?! When they play a spell, you can counter it and get a free creature!

Tacosnape
12-15-2007, 01:30 PM
The problem with Hunting Grounds is this. If you want a big creature, why not just play a Tarmogoyf?

Maveric78f
12-15-2007, 01:37 PM
Well I play it...

About counterspell creatures, I really don't see why I would want to counterspell when I can just win the game. The creatures you are mentionning are very situationnal. My opponent can disenchant my hunting ground I don't care if I get an Akroma into play.

Finn
12-15-2007, 02:14 PM
Mav, I toyed with this idea long, long before Tarmo. These are my observations:

1. Having to play with fatties that are generally uncastable is not a helpful state to be in.
2. Having to also play with stuff that fills the gy, and does little else also sux.
3. Having to get this on tap and then hope your opponent plays a spell is a poor man's Standstill in a lesser deck.

I hated it.

Isamaru
12-15-2007, 02:39 PM
Maverick, did you read what I said? What do you think about playing creatures that are good early game too, yet have a powerful ability lategame.

Eternal Dragon, Krosan Tusker, Mulldrifter, Shriekmaw...

I think that this is the best way to do it, and otherwise, Finn is right.

Jak
12-15-2007, 03:05 PM
WHy is Survival not be played?

blitz
12-15-2007, 04:39 PM
Maverick, did you read what I said? What do you think about playing creatures that are good early game too, yet have a powerful ability lategame.

Eternal Dragon, Krosan Tusker, Mulldrifter, Shriekmaw...

I think that this is the best way to do it, and otherwise, Finn is right.

Actually, that seems quite feasible... maybe an aggro approach where the hunting grounds is just there as CA in the mid-game once you reach threshold. That way, the hunting grounds is only useless in the early game, which is when you should be evoking creatures, laying down tarmagoyfs, cycling dragons, etc. instead. Maybe mongrel + dredge creatures to speed up getting to threshold + pumping the fat. Less reliance on baubles (SW is fine) to reach threshold.

No_Life_No_Future
12-16-2007, 11:03 AM
How about krosan tusker? It gets in for could get in for some sick beats. And its card advantage.

Maveric78f
12-17-2007, 05:01 AM
Mav, I toyed with this idea long, long before Tarmo. These are my observations:

1. Having to play with fatties that are generally uncastable is not a helpful state to be in.
2. Having to also play with stuff that fills the gy, and does little else also sux.
3. Having to get this on tap and then hope your opponent plays a spell is a poor man's Standstill in a lesser deck.

I hated it.

1. I play only 2 of them
2. I think that SW is very good overall. About the baubles they are riskey because of chalice@0 or needle or suppression field but those cards are quite random too. I mean that, for instance chalice is almost useless against my deck, as it gets rid of it very easily and the baubles I draw are instantly played. Suppression field is very rare (out from angel stompy, it does not exist in the meta)
3. It's not standstill as I can still play. The deck is very control if you did not notice.

Maybe tusker + shriekmaw + eternal dragon is a good idea. Very different from mine though. I keep testing with my build and I encourage you to do the same with your favorite's.

Cavius The Great
12-17-2007, 12:47 PM
You guys need to stop bashing on Maveric78f. Play him on MWS and he'll prove you all wrong. The rogue deck ideas he comes up with are amazing.

On another note, I think this deck needs to run Mishra's Factory to apply pressure on your opponent with a Hunting Grounds in play. This is the same logic that people use with Standstill and I think the same can be applied here.

Finn
12-17-2007, 02:09 PM
Cavius, you are probably referring to my post when it comes to bashing Maveric. Nothing could be further from the truth. In my previous discussions with him I found him to be innovative and methodical. I am hoping to impart some practical experience on a topic where most of the input is bound to be theoredical. The fact that I am speaking to a person who would eventually come to reasonable conclusions on his own makes my post one of saving him time on mistakes I already made.

Tone doesn't work in posts though. Yay technology.

Maveric78f
12-20-2007, 06:36 AM
And I think that you are sadly right...

Cait_Sith
12-20-2007, 10:00 AM
To be honest he is. I have tried out Hunting Grounds, and it just BAD. You pretty much auto lose to any deck with red, most (if not all) combo, and run the risk of having to run 5+ cards that are almost always dead. If you run ones on color, half the time it is better to just hardcast it, since a alot of fairly big creatures are in a nice color range (Loxodon Heirarch, for example). Honestly, there are not many fatties that can both have a major effect on the game and be huge (Sundering Titan comes to mind).