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HammafistRoob
12-24-2007, 12:11 AM
Mono black control is a deck that I think has alot of potential in the current meta even with the decline of combo-based decks. This deck has some things in common with sui black decks like the discard/removal package but it tends to lean more towards winning the game with a small number of creatures in play rather than multiple creatures in play.

Here is my twist on this archetype-

25 Mana Base
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
2 Cabal Pit
11 Swamp
4 Dark Ritual

14 Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
4 Phyrexian Negator
4 Hypnotic Specter
2 Mirri the Cursed

4 Artifacts
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Umezawa's Jitte

8 Discard
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Thoughtseize

7 Removal
4 Smother
3 Powder Keg

2 Tech
2 Reanimate

15 Sideboard
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Extirpate
3 Duress
3 Ghastly Demise
2 Pithing Needle

I played a similar list of this in the last Volcanic Island tourney in Hadley and didn't do that great. Here's what I remeber-

Round 1- UWG thresh with countertop main.
Game 1- He had an answer to everything I played, either FoW or Swords.
Game 2- I started with a leyline in play, this time 3 factories and a confidant with a jitte proved to be too much for him.
Game 3- Again I start with Leyline in play but this time my yard gets big and his Goyf's are 4/5's and I can't answer them all.

0-1-0

Round 2- UB Dredge with Imps.
Game 1- I kept a horrible hand and got creamed by a bunch of 3/3 hasty guys.
Game 2- I get 2 extirpates in opening hand and hit stinkweed, and troll. He gets 2 bridges in his yard so I flashback a therapy sacing an animated factory to get them out. Beat him down with 2 Negators.
Game 3- This game gets really close he brings me down to 3 life but I have too many exasive guys for him to live till next turn.

1-1-0

Round 3- UWG Breakfast
Game 1- This game ends early, he goes combo crazy and pwns me.
Game 2- Has anybody noticed the power of Darkblast in this match? Having a Darkblast in opening hand ussually means GG.
Game 3- Read above, this time extirpate nails goyf as well.

2-1-0

Round 4- Geddon Stax
Game 1- He starts off with turn one chalice at 1 followed by a turn two Trinisphere. Takes him a while but he finally kills me with magus of the tabernacle.
Game 2- There ends up being like 7 Mishra's in play, normally I would win this because of my removal and wastelands but not when he has reccuring wateland + like 3 chalices. Then he kills me the same way as game one (but with factories to back the magus up).

2-2-0

Round 5- UG Thresh with Stifle/Wasteland package.
Game 1- At this point, I'm pretty much out of finals, as are all of my friends. So I play very lasily not really caring because we live like 2 1/2 hours away and I don't feel like keeping my team waiting unless I feel like I have a chance, which I hardly do with this list vs. Thresh. We go into a game 3 but he beats me do to a bad keep on my hand(I kept because I had 2 wastelands and figured I could manascrew him) never do that again.

2-3-0
RUN AWAY!!! lol:laugh:

Here's the (terrible) list I played in that tourney

25 Mana Base
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
1 Cabal Pit
4 Bloodstained Mire
8 Swamp
4 Dark Ritual

10 Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
4 Phyrexian Negator
2 Mirri the Cursed

9 Instants
2 Extirpate
4 Smother
3 Darkblast(awful vs. thresh)

10 Sorceries
3 Hymn To Tourach(only played like twice all tourney)
4 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy

6 Artifact/Enchantments
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Phyrexian Arena(good synergy with Dblast)

15 Sideboard
4 Engineered Plague
3 Leyline of the Void
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Extirpate
1 Powder Keg
3 Ghastly Demise

My deck was totally terrible in that meta with all the thresh. My sideboard wasn't even close to finished, and I had trouble finding win conditions sometimes.

With the addition of thoughtseize and reanimate really create alot of tech to the deck. Hippie was also added, edict over Darkblast and Hymn came out due to the lack of swamps. The sideboard got finished(for now) and I'm planning on playing this in the Wareham tourney(10 minute drive instead of 2 1/2 hour drive FTW).

My thresh match is much better than it was at the Hadley tourney as is my Stax match(if it matters) with the addition of more powder kegs. I will be posting the Wareham tourney report when I win it. I don't really have any matchup analysis because I just fixed this deck and haven't really played it much.

If anyone has a MBC deck please feel free to post it.

Questions? Comments? Criticism?

Clark Kant
12-24-2007, 11:50 AM
Seeing as how that first list you posted has about 6 cards different from my sui black deck, I'm not sure exactly how this deck qualifies as MBC.

MBC typically runs Cabal Coffers, Mutilate/Damnation, Staff of Domination and such. And yes, it's a good viable deck.

But it's nothing like what you posted imo. What you posted pretty much fits in with typical builds of Sui Black rather well.

Nevertheless, the first list you posted is very strong.

The only changes I would make are...

-4 Cabal Therapy
+4 Hymn to Tourach

-2 Mirri
-2 Sensei's Top
+4 Oona's Prowler (Could be 3 Nantuko Shade)

ClearSkies
12-24-2007, 12:52 PM
Wouldn't Unearth be better than Reanimate? It doesn't cost you life, it revives any of your creatures, and it cycles if you really don't need it.

HammafistRoob
12-24-2007, 04:59 PM
Seeing as how that first list you posted has about 6 cards different from my sui black deck, I'm not sure exactly how this deck qualifies as MBC.

MBC typically runs Cabal Coffers, Mutilate/Damnation, Staff of Domination and such. And yes, it's a good viable deck.

But it's nothing like what you posted imo. What you posted pretty much fits in with typical builds of Sui Black rather well.

Nevertheless, the first list you posted is very strong.

The only changes I would make are...

-4 Cabal Therapy
+4 Hymn to Tourach

-2 Mirri
-2 Sensei's Top
+4 Oona's Prowler (Could be 3 Nantuko Shade)

The reason my list looks close to typical sui lists and not typical MBC lists is because I kinda put my own twist on the deck. I don't really qualify it as sui because I run alot more disruption than creatures and I don't run Carnophage or any of that stuff.:rolleyes:

The reason for not running the typical MBC is because Cabal Coffers is such a weak card it's rediculous, and without coffers you can't play Staff.

I think Hymn would be alot stronger than Therapy if I didn't run Factories. But I think Factory is essential to the deck because it goes good with Therapy and Jitte. IDK about adding Prowler to a legacy deck, I use it in t2, but it just seems like if I give my opponent the choice of taking damage or dumping extra lands, counterbalances, tops, or legendary dudes, they are going to pick the right choice if they are good at the game.:eek:

I know Mirri looks awkward but she really is a house vs. any type of aggro, or any deck if she is holding a Jitte. SDT, it's just too good to take out of the deck, I don't see how you would think of taking this out.


Wouldn't Unearth be better than Reanimate? It doesn't cost you life, it revives any of your creatures, and it cycles if you really don't need it.

The thing about reanimate that makes it worth running is I can steal my opponents creatures as well. With thoughtseize, smother, edict, and cabal therapy, it makes it really easy to do so. But I think the key part to that arguement is that unearth cycles which can be helpful sometimes but, Reanimate has so much more going for it in this deck.

Also, I would like to try and squeeze in some Cursed Scrolls if possible but I don't know what to remove. Any suggestions?

Atwa
12-24-2007, 05:20 PM
I have to second the use of Reanimate.

The card is just awesome in any deck having either discard or creaturekill other than StP.

I've been using it for over half a year now in a list and it's one of the cards in the deck I'll never cut. People have been telling me over and over to change it with unearth all this time, but Reanimate is just way too good.

Stealing your opponent's creatures is often better than reanimating your own. You could agrue the deck should be playing better creatures instead, but the ability to steal creatures other than the ones you are limited to by your own 60 card deck design gives you way more options to win the game.

Winining against deck you have no buisiness winning is good. Stealing Razormane Manticore to kill your opponents Welder and follow it up with a 4 turn clock is better than playing Goyf and have your opponent do combat tricks with the Welder.

Having more options than your opponent wins you games, and there is no card which gives you more options than Reaminate does. Losing life isn't pretty, but it doesn't really matter when you're winning. If it did, Necropotence would be a bad card.

HammafistRoob
12-26-2007, 01:12 AM
Changed the deck up a little bit-
mainboard
-3 Diabolic Edict
-4 Bloodstained Mire
+3 Ghastly Demise
+4 Swamp

Sideboard
-3 Darkblast
+3 Duress

I took out edict for demise mainly because targeted removal is usually better than giving my opponent a choice and hoping they make a play error.
I took out the fetch's because I take to much hurt from the rest of the deck, and deck thinning isn't really my main concern. I'd rather not take the risk of watching my only black source get stifled, trickbinded, etc.

Changing my sideboard was difficult, DBlast is a very powerful card in the right match-up but Duress helps me in harder matches like sligh or burn.

Does anyone feel like defending Edict? Because I know it's good but in some match-ups it falls short.

Clark Kant
12-26-2007, 01:22 AM
No, I like Ghastly Demise more, esp when you have Smother and Jitte backing it up to deal with what it can't.

But I still think the deck should absolutely be running Hymn To Tourach (easily among the most disruptive cards in the history of magic), over Cabal Therapy (a card that whiffs quite often).

And I still think you would be better served replacing the Sensei's Divining Top with an actual threat.

Nantuko Shade is excellent. Oona's Prowler is also quite good. IMO, both are better than Mirri, as they both come into play much earlier and usually beat for the same amount.

That I think is the ideal build of Sui Black (or MBC as you seem to wish to call it).

But I maybe biased, as that's essentially what I run, Reanimate and all (always been a huge fan of Reanimate).

Atwa
12-26-2007, 05:06 AM
Demise is fine. The only creature you might run into which you can't kill with it is Mystic Enforcer.

Now Threshhold is being played more and more, but there are a lot of versions, and you still have Jitte + Thoughtseize to seal with it. Reaminating an Enforcer is always a nice thing to do :)

Meekrab
12-26-2007, 05:09 AM
Desklist
It's appalling that no one has asked why Sinkhole is not in your deck.

Also I'd think about Tombstalker over Mirri just because he has an ass of five all the time.

claudio.r
12-26-2007, 04:08 PM
One thing that as worked very well for me in all of the mono black decks I've played in Legacy is:

4 Duress
4 Unmask
4 Hymn Tourach

This package is a complete nightmare to most of the stategies played in legacy now as long as you have something to put pressure on the opponent, and with the decline of goblins I think it's even more powerfull.
Obviously now, we can switch unmask for thoughtseize.

J.V.
12-26-2007, 04:19 PM
One thing that as worked very well for me in all of the mono black decks I've played in Legacy is:

4 Duress
4 Unmask
4 Hymn Tourach

This package is a complete nightmare to most of the stategies played in legacy now as long as you have something to put pressure on the opponent, and with the decline of goblins I think it's even more powerfull.
Obviously now, we can switch unmask for thoughtseize.

Thoughtseize>Duress in legacy
Unmask is card disadvantage and bob makes you say "Ow"
I agree with hymn but Rob currently doesn't like it... idk why.

claudio.r
12-26-2007, 04:27 PM
Using 12 discard effects is a real backbreaker for a lot of decks. If you don't like Unmask because of Bob, then you can always use Mesmeric Fiend, but it's not the same thing.

Currently my meta is flooded with control decks, and using the 12 discard spells package has really worked well for me. Just have to be shure i have some sort os threat (like nantuko shade or even Scuta) to keep the pressure on the opponent.

J.V.
12-27-2007, 01:08 AM
I agree that 12 Discard Package is great just it should be either
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Duress

Or

4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach

Free spells are nice, but card disadvantage just isn't fun. (FOW being the exception since it's simply ridiculous.)

HammafistRoob
12-27-2007, 02:49 AM
Hymn is good, but what do I take out for it?

I guess you could make the arguement of taking out Mirri and SDT, but SDT isn't going anywhere for now, it's friggin beast. Mirri helps vs. any aggro deck and is no question better than Prowler in this build. Shade IMO is the most over-rated card in the game at the momment. Why would you want to use all of your mana everyturn when you could be killing their threats and/or dropping more threats of your own?

Drawing Hymn(urr?), Duress, Therapy, Dark Ritual late game is what kills this decks tempo and I think SDT helps fix that a little.

Clark Kant
12-27-2007, 10:10 AM
You have absolutely no shuffle effects and no counterbalance. So I can't figure out what the heck is so good about SDT. You get a single card two turns earlier, for two mana, but that's it since you have no shuffle effects to get rid of the bad cards.

You're really overrating Mirri. 4 mana is too high a cost. No opponent will ever block Mirri with a flyer (or allow a creature to be blocked by Mirri) that doesn't kill Mirri, so it only beats for 3. Same as Prowler, only Prowler came out several turns earlier (however long it took you to draw the extra two land) and for half the mana.

Shade is solid. You have a decent shot at getting it big enough to take out Goyfs and survive.

If you want a big finisher, play Tombstalker. Too bad it has poor synergy with your Confidants, Demise and lack of fetchlands, wastelands, sinkholes and smallpoxes.

Hymn is absolutely essential.

I recommend...

Duress
Thoughtseize
Hymn

As for Sinkhole, with the huge number of great cards that green gives this deck access to, I'm not certain that land destruction is the best possible way to use up those slots.

Here's what I'm messing around with right now.

//Disruption
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach

//Creatures
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Phyrexian Negator
4 Dark Confidant

//Utility
3 Rancor
3 Berserk
3 Reanimate
3 Ghastly Demise

//Mana
4 Dark Ritual
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bayou
4 Swamp
2 Snowcovered Swamp
2 Cabal Pit

//Sideboard
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Engineered Plague
4 Dystopia
3 Jitte

The main question mark right now seems to be.

Smother vs. Ghastly Demise

Which should this deck be running and why?

Also, the sideboard needs a ton of work. I just threw it together.

HammafistRoob
12-27-2007, 04:59 PM
Your list seems OK but the only reason to splash green is so you can run Goyf and Deed, you are missing Deed and Rancor is not needed at all.

I know that Mirri probably isn't the best card for those 2 slots but in this build it's better than Shade and Tombstalker.

If I cut Factory, Shade would be a MUST play, here's what that list would probably look like-


25 Mana Base
4 Wasteland
2 Cabal Pit
15 Swamp
4 Dark Ritual

14 Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
3 Phyrexian Negator
4 Hypnotic Specter
3 Nantuko Shade

2 Artifacts
2 Umezawa's Jitte

19 Disruption
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Thoughtseize
4 Smother
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole


15 Sideboard
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Extirpate
3 Duress
3 Powder Keg
2 Pithing Needle

The reason I don't go this route is because the LD gives you a stronger early game but kills you late game. It also seems like a deck built off of your opponents draws, if they draw extra lands, you have more and more dead cards.:confused:

Clark Kant
12-28-2007, 01:26 AM
As for the previous list I posted, I'm changing the disruption package based on the feedback that actually made sense in terms of how the deck was playing...

The creature and discard base was absolutely perfect.

But I'm switching the utility base from...

//Utility
3 Rancor
3 Berserk
3 Reanimate
3 Ghastly Demise

To...

//Utility
2 Berserk
3 Reanimate
3 Ghastly Demise
4 Smother

It's a sucky movie when you run into noncreature based decks, combo decks, and the vast majority of control decks. But aggro decks seem to predominate and the extra creature kill is fantastic with them. Reanimate is golden against both control decks and aggro decks, but once again is worthless against combo. If you face combo, do not use this build, at all.

Jitte is an awesome card. I'm just hesistent to test it because it's slow, where as this deck is all about uber speed (hence the Berserk).

As for manabase, I'm squeezing in 3 Wasteland along with 2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth to compensate for that.

P.S. reanimate became good once goyf took over the format.

the odds are in your favor that your opponent's deck plays goyfs.

you do as well.

you also play ways to discard their goyfs, and ways to kill their goyfs.

they play ways to counter and/or kill your goyfs.

all in all, a lot of goyfs end up in the graveyard.

Thus, reanimate is goyfs 5-8. It costs one mana less than goyf, but costs two life.

If your deck can play with 8 goyfs rather than 4, wouldn't you. That's why the deck plays reanimate.

P.P.S: I don't see any justification why this deck merits to stay in the established deck forum. Sui Black already has a thread. So does MBC. Both are far more established than this deck. And both get a lot more discussion and a bigger following than this deck.

HammafistRoob
12-29-2007, 01:39 AM
But I'm switching the utility base from...

//Utility
3 Rancor
3 Berserk
3 Reanimate
3 Ghastly Demise

To...

//Utility
2 Berserk
3 Reanimate
3 Ghastly Demise
4 Smother


Good call on that BTW.
Rancor wasn't needed at all, most of your creatures already had evasion.

Clark Kant
12-29-2007, 04:50 PM
For the sideboard, I actually haven't been pleased with Engineered Plague lately.

Except for the occasional Goblin or Warrens combo matchup or even rarer elf matchup, Plague hasn't been much good for anything.

And even against Goblins, it only sometimes helps turn the tide of the game. Most of the time, it just makes their beaters a little bit smaller but doesn't do enough. Warrens decks easily just play their alternate kill card.

I think that since Goblins fell out of popularity, we can replace E. Plague with something else. Not sure what.

Something like Infest clears the board of all goblins and is useful against affinity, warrens and cephalid breakfast and hosts of other decks.

I've been loving Sudden Death though, just because it can't be countered, counterbalanced, dazed, pumped, bounced or anything. The number of creatures it kills is insane. And it kills Goyfs too as long as you have even the tiniest blocker.

I feel like maindecking that or possibly sideboarding it.

And yes Krosan Grip is insanely good. I really think Counterbalance isn't worth playing Snuff Out maindeck and losing four life which loses the game sooo often, when you could just use Krosan Grip to deal with it, or play Sudden Death or something.

Four Krosan Grip makes Pithing Needle totally unneccesary as well.

HammafistRoob
12-30-2007, 09:16 PM
For the sideboard, I actually haven't been pleased with Engineered Plague lately.

Except for the occasional Goblin or Warrens combo matchup or even rarer elf matchup, Plague hasn't been much good for anything.

And even against Goblins, it only sometimes helps turn the tide of the game. Most of the time, it just makes their beaters a little bit smaller but doesn't do enough. Warrens decks easily just play their alternate kill card.

I think that since Goblins fell out of popularity, we can replace E. Plague with something else. Not sure what.

Something like Infest clears the board of all goblins and is useful against affinity, warrens and cephalid breakfast and hosts of other decks.

I've been loving Sudden Death though, just because it can't be countered, counterbalanced, dazed, pumped, bounced or anything. The number of creatures it kills is insane. And it kills Goyfs too as long as you have even the tiniest blocker.

I feel like maindecking that or possibly sideboarding it.

And yes Krosan Grip is insanely good. I really think Counterbalance isn't worth playing Snuff Out maindeck and losing four life which loses the game sooo often, when you could just use Krosan Grip to deal with it, or play Sudden Death or something.

Four Krosan Grip makes Pithing Needle totally unneccesary as well.

I've replaced E plague with Powder Keg, the only problem is I don't have Powder Kegs. Also, I believe Sudden Death can be counterbalanced. The only thing is they can't use their Top and the decks that run Counterbalance don't have cards that cost 3.

Anyways I made T8 at the Wareham tourney, only losing in the first round to one of my team members. Here's a small report-

SB went
-3 Powder Keg(didn't have them)
+3 Engineered Plague

Round 1- Faerie Stompy(T8'd by Scott, VStheWorld)
Game 1- I can answer all of his threats and he didn't topdeck anything useful.
Game 2- The only threat he draws is 1 Serendib Efreet, which meets thoughtseize. He gets a Jitte out with 2 counters, I Reanimate his Trinket Mage and grab a Needle for Jitte(plays like this is why I play the game).

1-0-0

Round 2- Recruiter Aluren(T8'd by Jeff)
Game 1- I've never played against Aluren before, his are Japanese or something, so I don't know that Aluren lets me play my guys for free, he combos pretty easily.
Game 2- He goes turn 1 Trop. Tinder Wall go. I play swamp, Thoughtseize which meets FoW removing Brainstorm. Turn 2 he plays another Trop. followed by Aluren. Combos a turn or two after.

1-1-0

Round 3- Angel Stax(played by Jared, Jaynel)
Game 1- I have a Bob, Jitte'd with 2 counters. He drops Exalted ends turn, I play a Mirri, end turn (I couldn't attack with Bob because of Ghostly Prison). He swings with Angel not knowing that Mirri has flying, I give it -2/-2 and bang it out with Mirri, he ends turn. He stalls for a little bit killing some lands and having two Ghostly Prisons out but he can't stop my creatures.
Game 2- He keeps an icky hand, turn 1 dropping 2 Mox Diamonds ditching 2 Wastelands. I go turn 1 hippie, He doesn't draw lands for a few turns and by the time he does, it's basically over.

2-1-0

Round 4- UR Landstill w/ MD explosives(played by idk)
Game 1- He draw 3 Standstill (my deck loves these in play) and 0 Removal, win with Factory under a Still.
Game 2- A little more of a challenge, I Needle SDT, he cracks an explosives for no reason really(killing my needle, his Top), I play another Needle this one correctly aimed at Faerie Conclave, win with Factory under Stilll again.

3-1-0

Round 5- Blue Dreadstill (played by Roodmistah, a fellow Hammafist founder)
We decide to call it a draw into T8, his final record is 3-0-2, mine 3-1-1.

Top 8
Round 1- Blue Dreadstill (played by Roodmistah, a fellow Hammafist founder) we are both confident about demolishing the T8 so we decide to play it out.
Game 1- He play Top turn 1, I play D ritual, Hippie (meets Daze:cry: )
he bangs me out with a Dreadnought.
Game 2- Turn 5 he plays Dreadnought/Stifle/ Standstill, that is GG. I attempt 2 Smothers, neither resolving. I die a painful death.


Well I liked the way my deck preformed so much, I got a foil Bob out of the deal, 3 out of 4 Hammafist members made T8. We took home 1st(Roodmistah), 2nd(Jan Valentine00), 7th(ME).

Clark Kant
12-30-2007, 10:35 PM
I like your updated list a lot more.

My favorite part if players just ran Duress in Thoughtseizes place, it fits the definition of a competitive budget dec (though I'm sure that wasn't your intention). I wish you renamed the deck's title Suicide Black [Budget Competitive]. It describes the deck a lot better than MBC imho. And I would like more inexpensive legacy decks using that naming scheme. If budget isn't a limitation at all, then I think Goyf is way too strong in the deck not to splash green for.

What I dislike, 13 total colored land. As a fairie stompy player, I know how easy it is for a deck to get color screwed with 14 lands! So I don't know if I could play 13 without concern. I don't think 4 Wastelands are needed either. You have no Sinkholes or Hymns to supplement the mana denial strategy. So i fear it will color screw you just as often as it does your opponent imo. But maybe Factory is the unneeded card. Eitherway, I'm not convinced about running 4 of both.

But I can see your reasoning for not running Hymn now. Not convinced at all that Cabal Therapy is better than Duress in that list though.

With all the creature removal you run, plus Mirri who I agree is insanely strong against most legacy creatures, I think never fizziling is superior to taking out creatures.

Tombstalker would be solid as a 2 of though.

But the only change that I am positive you should make is to throw in 2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth into the list. They're needed with the 8 colorless lands.

HammafistRoob
12-31-2007, 12:45 AM
I like your updated list a lot more.

My favorite part if players just ran Duress in Thoughtseizes place, it fits the definition of a competitive budget dec (though I'm sure that wasn't your intention). I wish you renamed the deck's title Suicide Black [Budget Competitive]. It describes the deck a lot better than MBC imho. And I would like more inexpensive legacy decks using that naming scheme. If budget isn't a limitation at all, then I think Goyf is way too strong in the deck not to splash green for.

What I dislike, 13 total colored land. As a fairie stompy player, I know how easy it is for a deck to get color screwed with 14 lands! So I don't know if I could play 13 without concern. I don't think 4 Wastelands are needed either. You have no Sinkholes or Hymns to supplement the mana denial strategy. So i fear it will color screw you just as often as it does your opponent imo. But maybe Factory is the unneeded card. Eitherway, I'm not convinced about running 4 of both.

But I can see your reasoning for not running Hymn now. Not convinced at all that Cabal Therapy is better than Duress in that list though.

With all the creature removal you run, plus Mirri who I agree is insanely strong against most legacy creatures, I think never fizziling is superior to taking out creatures.

Tombstalker would be solid as a 2 of though.

But the only change that I am positive you should make is to throw in 2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth into the list. They're needed with the 8 colorless lands.

I borrowed the Thoughtseizes from a friend so unless I can get my own, I will have to run Duress. I like Therapy over Duress just because I almost never wiff and I can always flash it back if need be.

Urborg is cool but I don't think another Wasteland target is too great though and I never have problems with this manabase anyways.

Mirri won me a few games in the tourney Saturday, everytime I drew her it was great. I'm not convinced on Tombstalker either, bad with Bob, Demise, Therapy, or Cabal Pit. Dark Confidant revealing Tombstalker can very easily lose me a game(I am well aware that I run SDT).

Also, running 4 Wastelands and 4 Mishra's Factory gives me a terribly easy time against almost any type of Landstill deck. The only downfall to runnig 8 colorless lands is 1) No Hymn, and 2) No Shade.

I'm not a big fan of Shade at all so for me the only loss is Hymn which I can deal with. Factory is good at stopping Mongeese and possibly Lackey. Also wins easily with a Jitte.

Wasteland is good at randomly winning games due to color screwing you opponent, killing off annoying lands like Tabernacle, Maze of Ith, and opposing manlands allowing my swings with smaller creatures(bob, factory) to get through.

HammafistRoob
01-02-2008, 10:35 PM
Just an update, I think it would be smart to switch Ghastly Demise and Powder Keg. Powder Keg is a house in meta right now and is alot more versatile than Demise(also very good and underplayed).

I don't care if anyone knows that I'm running this for the Hadley tourney. Bring your Chalices and Needles.