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APriestOfGix
12-26-2007, 12:30 PM
(My keyboard is broke a few keys on the right half you have to SLAM to get to read, so i'm sorry if some are missing (l , ' ; these ones) if anyone knows how to fix this (aready chucked under keys) pease te me.)

Deck List:

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
3 [TE] Ancient Tomb
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 Tundra
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [B] Volcanic Island
3 [TSP] Flagstones of Trokair
1 Mountain
1 [UG] Plains
2 [UG] Island

// Creatures
3 [TSP] Greater Gargadon
4 [UD] Academy Rector

// Spells
3 [IN] Obliterate
2 [SC] Form of the Dragon
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [CS] Counterbalance
1 [DIS] Dovescape
4 [MM] Counterspell
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [CS] Rune Snag

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [TE] Propaganda
SB: 4 [CHK] Ghostly Prison
SB: 3 [TSB] Disenchant
SB: 4 [TE] Chill


[b][u]Card Choices:

Ancient Tomb: This deck can't support acceleration like Chrome Mox, or Mox Diamonds. Yet it needs a way to be able to play it's higher CC spells with out waiting for 7-8 mana on the board. The double lands help out. The life loss is minimal with Tomb, since you usually use it once early, to drop a rector, or 1-2 times later, to cast the Obliterate.

Greater Gargadon: Actually amazing. He is great to give you a sac outlet to your rector, and on more than one time I have just waited and et him come. He also makes wasted ands not useless. The best part though is after an Obliterate, he leaves you with the strongest creature on the board.

Academy Rector The heart and sou of this deck. Rector has singe handy won me MANY games. You drop it and it stops the beats better than a Propaganda, or Ghostly Prison. I once held off 3 goyfs (5/6) just because he was trying to get lethal on the board, so he wouldn't have to see what the rector brought out.

Obliterate Probably the most questioned slot. It really shines in many match-ups. It gives the deck inevitability. This deck runs less counters than MUC, and less threats than Thresh, But is makes up for that in the fact that if we stall to the late game, you can drop and un-counterable Obliterate and win the game.

Form of the Dragon: Very good win condition, stops the beats, and wins pretty fast.

Counterbalance and Sensei's Divining Top: Well, Many people think CB is no good with higher CC cards. I do agree that is true. Yet the deck also runs many lower cc cards and surprisingly I have rarely found it hard to CB a unwanted spell for lack of low cc cards on top. Top is necessary it lets you keep you higher cc spells out of you hand, and lets you float them on the top.

Currently the sideboard is kinda messy. It has cards to stop fast aggro which can be a problem and burn which is a HUGE problem given Form puts you at 5.



Cards that didn't make it

Burning Wish: There is just nothing you want to grab with it.

Decree of Silence: Better than Dovescape, but i have had combo just through away 3 spells, and win over it.

Humility: It was the way to go, but I found i hated casting it, as it shut off my rectors, and that kinda ruins the entire deck, turning you into a reall bad control, having to hardcast Forms.



Match-Ups:

Goblins: This is a medium match-up. You have few answers to first turn lack, but rector is amazing, if you can use counterspells from them getting double Piledriver. This match up is about even. Counter the Warchief, and Piledrivers, and get a fast rector and your set. Form of the Dragon is almost an auto-win, just watch out for SGC, cause he can burn your face if they hit 10 mana.

SB: Bring in Propaganda and Chill. Both of these slow them a lot! If you want bring in Ghostly, Bring in Ghostly after you bring in the Props cause you don't want to take out too much. Board out CB, and Greater Gargadons and the Dovescape. Finding what to pull for Ghostly, is the only reason not to board it in.


U/G/x CounterTop Thresh: Good match-up. Use your counterspells on large critters (goyf). Try and get a rector to resolve, and your good to go. If you have the coice between countering goyf, and saving for the rector counterwar, against white, stop the goyf (STP), and all others get the rector out. Rector is almost gg against then none white versions. Also they jun very little that can stop you with their counterbalance, basically only your 2cc counterspells. Obliterate win you the game, all you have to do is hang on that long.

SB: if they run LOTS of critters, bring in some props (props before Ghostly Prison, cause they pitch to FoW).


Landstill (3 or 4 color): VERY good match-up. They like to stall, and so do you. Obliterate is a game winner, I have never lost against landstill after getting and Obliterate to be played (yeah for uncounterable!). This is a very easy match-up. Save counters for counter wars over Rectors. Once you get a rector down, you have almost won the game, if you can protect it from STP.

SB: Nothing!


TES: This is a good match-up. It depends a LOT on the TES player. If you can get CB out, you win. I have yet to see a TES player win through CB, and counters for un-CB-able stuff. This is a great match-up, and hope to see it all day. Chant can be annoying, but try and get CB out fast, and you've got this. The only worry is having Form out. Watch out since they can play spells into CB, and then Tendrils you FTW.

SB: -3 Obliterate, -1 SDT; +4 Chill. This is even easier. Just make sure to stop Xantids out of the board. Like the first game, counterbalance wrecks them, but now you have to watch out for Pyro/Red Elemental Blast. A Chill hurts them a lot, as it kills rite's, Burning Wish, Warrens, and the Pyros.


Burn: This match up is REALLY hard. It relies on you getting Counterbalance out FAST. Also, a quick form will lose you the game, you have to find 2 rectors, and get a Dovescape as well. Counter as many burn spells as you can, and stop them with CB/Top.

SB: -3 Obliterate, -1 Counterspell; +4 Chill. If you can drop a chill, you usually win. Mull aggressively into chill counters, or CB. Better, but still not the favorable if you can't find any hate.


Dragon Stompy: Hardest Match-up you have. Moon effects are a BITCH! As soon as you see a moon effect coming, crack fetches for basic islands, and the plains. The Mountains isn't needed, as you will have plenty. Try and counter Moon effect is you can. Also watch out for Slogger, when you drop a Form. Don't be worries to ride a Rector to a stall, as the long the game goes the smaller their library, and less slogging, and also the closer you are to Obliterating the Board.

SB: Bring in Chill, and as many Taxers as you can. Pull the CB/Top and Brainstorm (Chalice = not so much). Drop a taxer, and a rector and win! Still hard, you have to be on your game to win these games.

These are the decks Hardest Matchups. Here is a basic breakdown.

Bad:
Dragon Stompy
Ichorid
Goblins
Burn
Sligh
Anything with Wasteland Lock

Split:
Goyf Sligh
Thresh (Wasteland Stifle Version)
43 Land
Random Aggro
Piluka/Heavy Discard

Good:
Survival
Thresh (All colors except the Wasteland/Stifle Version)
Landstill
Any Control (You have the late game back breaker)
Demon Stompy
Suicide Black
Red Death
Enchantress (They get unhappy with no lands for some reason)
IGGy Pop
Belcher
TES


Looking Ahead:

Cards:
I have been wondering about Disenchant. It run it strictly for the Solitary Confinement answer, but it may be better to Run Wipe Away. I'm not sure what to do with that Slot.

The Mana base has been amazing. The only consideration i have is maybe pulling a Flagstones for another basic (probably island), or a another Tundra.




Reason to Play WURbliterate:

It has an amazing game against Thresh, and Landstill. So if you play a control Heavy meta, this is you deck to play. It also has so many little synergies in it, that it will surprise you. I was just playing somebody, and the were like Rector + Gargadon = Sexy! Really, it is, they can't even StP in response, cause the rector is already gone.

Also after a Obliterate, if you had CB/Top out, you should have a top on the top of Library, stopping them from laying a land, and trying to recover fast with a cantrip.

The deck is really powerful, as long as you can survive. It also has a great game against Combo, since it is a control deck. I would play it in any meta, that isn't dominated by goblins. However, if you can keep their number of creatures low, you can drop a rector and stall till you can kill it. So even aggro isn't that bad.

The deck doesn't like seeing Wasteland locks, or LOTS of small fast creatures, or burn. If two of these 3 things is highly prevelant, i would suggest a different deck. If however you meta is like mine, and full of Thresh, and other control or Combo, this is you deck to play.

It is also amazingly fun, to win with what many people have said as "janky cards". It will bring out you inner Johnny!

zulander
12-26-2007, 01:55 PM
Something that I think we can all appreciate is not only the cards that made it to the deck, but the cards that you tested out and didn't make the cut. That way we can save some time and not ask "Hey, have you tried this card out!??!". Good primer, looking forward to see the matchups and example hands.

Tog
12-26-2007, 06:23 PM
I don't know if we're allowed to help develop decks here but here goes...

I think the deck is a really nifty idea since I enjoyed playing NetherHaups in days past. I think some of the deck interactions are really cool like Gargadon + Flagstones + Brainstorm/Top. You can also cycle multiple Tops with a Gargadon suspended for a single mana.

Of course I haven't gotten around to playing the deck just yet but the double blue (Counterbalance and Counterspell) on the base seems killer. The Flagstones have interesting interactions with Gargadon, Obliterate, and even itself but I think they perpetuate the mana base problem.

However, three Rune Snag seem really out of place. You would either use all four or none at all. Mana Leak would be better as a three of. You just don't get multiple Rune Snag frequently enough or early enough for the extra mana taxing to have any relevance on the game.

Hope this helps,
~Tog

APriestOfGix
12-26-2007, 09:51 PM
However, three Rune Snag seem really out of place. You would either use all four or none at all. Mana Leak would be better as a three of. You just don't get multiple Rune Snag frequently enough or early enough for the extra mana taxing to have any relevance on the game.

Your right, they used to be Mana Leak, my friend SWORE they would be better as Rune Snag, and so far is every game it hasn't mattered. I never play it wishing it would cost 3, and it costing 4 have never kept them from it and they have 3 open.

So it's really a toos up, i agree Mana Leak should be better though...

Cavius The Great
12-27-2007, 04:33 PM
Lotus Bloom seems like it can easily find a home in this deck. It makes Obliterate castable by the fourth turn and also lets you hardcast stuff like Dovescape and Form of the Dragon. It might be something to consider. Late game Blooms can also be sacked to Gargadon.

technogeek5000
12-27-2007, 05:29 PM
I dont know if i like this deck. It seems that their are lots of better ways you can win then rectoring out a card like form of the dragon. I also realy doubt that your goblins matchup is even. Since you have no ways of answering a turn 1 lackey other then FOW. They are most likely gonna steam roll you before you can get out form. Also they can still kill you through siege gang if you try to stall them with a propaganda/ghostly prison.

Just my thoughts.

georgjorge
12-27-2007, 05:38 PM
I think that would be a pretty good deck for Enduring Ideal (nearly broken with Dovescape).

APriestOfGix
12-27-2007, 06:56 PM
They are most likely gonna steam roll you before you can get out form. Also they can still kill you through siege gang if you try to stall them with a propaganda/ghostly prison.

So you say they win through counterspells before turn 3-4?

No really. Try the match-up. As soon as rector hits, you win...

thefreakaccident
12-30-2007, 11:26 PM
Hey priest!!!

I only have 2 questions...

1... why not play 4 obliterate? As it is such a devastating card for opponents and is one of the main purposes of the deck

2... why play rune snag over mana leak? Mana leak is better the first time, the same the second time, and about the same the third time...

It just seems better overall, although it isn't all that big of a deal; as I don't think it would affect many games.

Illissius
12-30-2007, 11:35 PM
Rune Snag grows in increments of two, not one. That said, if you're playing less than four, Mana Leak's the pick.

APriestOfGix
12-31-2007, 03:02 AM
I have switched to Mana Leak just cause of the said response. I still have never wanted one over the other...

Also my computer died, and that had the rest of my primmer on it. So i have to wait till i can get a windows start-up disc from a friend, and get back on my comp to update.


Also you never want 4 Obliterate, because you want to see only 1.

If you run 1 it should be tutorable.
2: You want to see SOME games in the late game.
3: You want to only see 1 a game, every game.
4: You want as many as you can get, 5 if you could. You want to see it every game, and early on.


So three is the correct number.

Maveric78f
12-31-2007, 04:05 AM
how is obliterate tutorable?

Jak
12-31-2007, 04:15 AM
He is saying you only run 1 if it is tutorable. APoG, your posts are hard to understand. Work on that.

APriestOfGix
12-31-2007, 02:13 PM
Yeah sorry about that, i don't have a lot of time to post recently. Once i get time, i'm going back and fixing up all my posts. Sharing a computer = not so much.

OK.

If you run 1, you want it tutorable.
If you run 2, you want to see it late game.
If you run 3, you want to see 1 each game late game.
If you run 4, you want as many as you can get as soon as you can get them.


I really don't want to see 2 Obliterates, and with all the manipulation, of tops and Fetchlands, it's really easy to find one. Also the tops make it really easy to keep the Obliterate on the top of the deck so you have it, but don't keep it in your hand clogging space until you have the mana.

About the Goblins match-up, i not sure how to side anymore. I run Chill which is amazing, and Obliterate is also game breaking. But Chill + Obliterate = not a combo. Thus i'm not sure if it's better to side out the obliterates, and just got for a fast Form, or if it's better to leave the chill out. I think the fast Form is the way to go. Obliterates are amazing, but i haven't been casting them as much as i like seeing chill, cause Obliterate seems like a win more card. If you have stalled out to 8 mana against goblins, it usually means you already have the game under control. Thus i think Chill is better as you can stall out and get that Form. Since Form is an auto win against Goblins, it is just easier to not wait for 8 mana.

bladewing019
12-31-2007, 05:35 PM
Depending on how fast you got form out SGC + 6 mana will still let goblins win, so don't count it as an autowin.

I'd almost definitely board out Obliterates against goblins since if you ever get to enough mana to cast it you should be able to win without it anyways. And your board options are stronger in the Goblins MU I think.

APriestOfGix
01-01-2008, 05:38 AM
Form SCG?


They need the 6 mana the turn you pull form...

thefreakaccident
01-01-2008, 01:54 PM
Obliterate into form = no creatures or lands... seige-gang doesn't seem like an issue at that point...

MattH
01-01-2008, 02:48 PM
Because I know some really arcane decks, I know of an old 2000-era Standard deck called Counterhaups (it never really went anywhere. Maybe it won a States?). It ran, among other crazy shit, Gush. So maybe you should try Fathom Seer.

HdH_Cthulhu
01-02-2008, 06:44 AM
Have you ever tryed 4 Burning wish and only 1 MD Obliberate?

Maëlig
01-02-2008, 06:54 AM
Have you ever tryed 4 Burning wish and only 1 MD Obliberate?

Just to expand on this idea, you could actually be running 1 enduring ideal in SB, which shares rector's toolbox. Then you would need more mana acceleration (which you need anyways for obliterate) : lotus bloom, sithering song, ...

Lemuria
01-02-2008, 07:20 AM
Why not run one copy of Barren Glory as an option of winning? I don't know how often though you get no cards in your hand, but...


You cast Obliterate, tutor the Barren Glory via Rector, and win next turn. You don't have to wait if you can win immediatly.

Just my two cents.

APriestOfGix
01-02-2008, 11:58 AM
I almost never have zero cards in hand. I already tried Barren, i just never seemed to have a zero card hand. And Running LED as well was a waste as i could never use it for mana.



Have you ever tryed 4 Burning wish and only 1 MD Obliberate?

That is an interesting Idea. I will look into that. The problem with Ideal is the deck dosn't have enough space to run a full Toolbox, and it hates to see Ideal countered. Obliterate dosn't get countered.

Also running Basajio (or how ever the hell you spell it) is bad, as you don't want to lose life, and otherwise it's a dead land.

Maëlig
01-02-2008, 12:18 PM
That is an interesting Idea. I will look into that. The problem with Ideal is the deck dosn't have enough space to run a full Toolbox, and it hates to see Ideal countered. Obliterate dosn't get countered.

A full toolbox? You don't really need anything more than 2 form of the dragon and 1 dovescape to make enduring ideal effective (it's less a toolbox than a combo win-con, really). Maybe just 1 solitary confinement. About the counter problem, you can pack some orim's chant, abeyance, boseiju and/or overmaster (why does nobody play this card?) in your side.
I wouldn't go down to 1 obliterate MD however. It's the basis of the deck, so running 7 (3 + 4 burning wish) is OK. What you really need is mana acceleration.

APriestOfGix
01-03-2008, 12:24 AM
Yeah after some testing with Wish, i feel it's overkill, and not that good. I get it countered against thresh, and I would rather just run the Obliterate's main, and win. It really dosn't help much, as there are few cards i can grab as an answer to my already bad match-ups, so it's not really that helpful...

APriestOfGix
01-07-2008, 07:37 PM
Modified the First post, it should be complete, if not PM me, and i will fix it.

thefreakaccident
01-11-2008, 10:54 PM
Hey dude!

I have been testing the deck a lot recently, I was wondering a couple things... I know that they have came up in the past, but I feel they need to be adressed.

First, the one turn difference that the tombs have made to the 'clock' of the deck don't seem strong enough to warrant their inclusion... that said, you could possibly ad another color once they are dropped.

I think that green would be a strong include for the deck (not for goyf!!!), but for living wishes/worldly tutors... this would give you a possible tool box strategy and give you 'more' copies of the Rector. It would also give you some good sideboard options in krosan grip.

Black is also another idea, as it would give you lim dul's vault, good sideboard options, and good creature removal (although I do not find this all that great as to the decks' strategy overall).

The cool thing about this deck is that it plays like control, yet wins out of nowhere and leaves little to no ways for the opponent to cope with what you've done... Do you have any comments about my suggestions?

Frenger
08-26-2008, 03:13 PM
This is the newest version of this deck from Team FUNK:

// Lands
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [R] Tundra
4 [R] Volcanic Island
2 [UG] Island
1 [UG] Mountain
2 [UG] Plains
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory

// Creatures
4 [UD] Academy Rector
3 [TSP] Greater Gargadon
3 [PS] Meddling Mage

// Spells
3 [IN] Obliterate
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [TE] Counterspell
4 [MM] Brainstorm
2 [SC] Form of the Dragon

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [DIS] Dovescape
SB: 3 [TE] Propaganda
SB: 4 [IA] Disenchant
SB: 3 [CHK] Ghostly Prison
SB: 4 [SHM] Wheel of Sun and Moon

FoolofaTook
08-26-2008, 04:57 PM
How is the latest version matching up against the meta? It looks like a very interesting concept, however I'm wondering about some of the seams that look to be present. Does CounterTop work with seven 1cc, 10 2cc and no 3cc in the deck (counting the 1cc and 2cc available if CounterTop is on the board?) How do you deal with a fast permanent in play when you're on the draw, like a turn 1 creature off of acceleration?

I like the general concept a lot so I'd be interested in hearing the workarounds you guys have come up with.

Frenger
08-26-2008, 05:16 PM
The deck has been doing really well. The reason for the inclusion of Factory's and Mage's is for the exact reason you said, to stop a early goyf long enough to find a Rector.

CB has been amazing. Although it doesn't have the countering power that many other decks have with it, it does hit 2 a LOT and in Legacy that is important. It also makes sure combo can't go off, usually buying you time to actually get counters in your hand.

The deck still has trouble with a fast evasive creature. Buy lucky for us, there are few people playing Faerie Stompy these days.

Rector is a house. Seriously he is so feared, my teammates have watched it hold off 3 goyfs, because 2 weren't lethal, and Form would stop the goyfs cold.

The factory's have been great. With the mage's they make Thresh actually find creatures, instead of holding counters, and ridding one goose to the win. Facotry also lets you beat up on landstill a bit, and has done an amazing job of being a blocker, but also upping mana for the Obliterate.

The deck looks a bit... strange on paper, but if you load it up on MWS and play a few games, you'll see that it's pretty resilient and consistent and does win games. It's definitely improved a great deal since the original list.

We hope that with more testing and tweaking --preferably by some people other than our team-- it will be up there as solid as Landstill, which we think it already is.