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AngryTroll
01-01-2008, 12:18 AM
After seeing the announcement by Peter Rotten and Lonely Baritone, I've decided that it is time to post the deck I've been working on. I, like everyone else, am not done with the testing, but the list is not unrefined.

I've been tossing around decks for the contest for a few weeks, and I ended up settling on GBW. Unfortunately, it turns out that the rest of the world decided on this color combination as well. However, the list I've been working on seems to be more unexplored territory.

My goal was to build a midgame aggro deck that dodged much of the common hate and shortcomings of the format. This is actually related to the terrible treefolk deck I built and tested against Dragon Stompy. Even a terribly underpowered deck can smash a metagame deck; this is common knowledge. Combining this knowledge with my experience playing UGw Thresh in a largely random metagame was the foundation for the deck.

I've always run 2 Mystic Enforcers in Thresh, even before it was "cool". I tried the deck with only 1, but the "I win" factor of Enforcer is incredibly strong. Even with 2 Enforcer, though, modern UGw Thresh is only running 10 creatures. If my opponents were able to cast a constant stream of threats that were as large as or larger than Mongoose and Goyf, I had to dig hard for Enforcers. 4 Force, 3-4 Daze, 4 Swords, and 3 Counterbalance is usually enough to stop most decks from clogging up the ground. However, if a deck is able to ignore Counterbalance, the Thresh player ends up playing catchup. This is part of why the Goblins matchup is difficult: more Goblins end up in play than Thresh can deal with with just Swords and non-Counterbalance counters. Of course, the blinding speed and mana disruption are the rest of the problem.

So, I the goal is to build a deck to dodge metagame decks, dodge Counterbalance, out-creature Thresh, and have some game against Goblins as well. A tall order! Here is what I have been working on.


Armadillo Stompy
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Tarmogoyf
4 River Boa
4 Shriekmaw
4 Spiritmonger

3 Duress
3 Thoughtsieze
2 Cabal Therapy
4 Swords to Plowshares

4 Armadillo Cloak
3 Sword of Fire and Ice

4 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Savannah
4 Bayou

Sideboard
2 Duress/Thoughtsieze
4 Gaddock Teeg
3 Armageddon
3 Krosan Grip
4 Engineered Plague


Birds of Paradise
Accelerates into a second turn Duress/Thoughtsieze and Goyf, or a second turn Boa and regeneration, disruption and Boa, Sword of Fire and Ice, etc.

Tarmogoyf
I initially was trying to run no Goyfs, and run a combination of Withered Wretch and Loaming Shamans in the deck to shut down opposing Goyfs, Mongeese, Nantuko Monestaries, and Dragons. However, running my own Goyfs is much stronger. Beware; the deck is not running very many of any card type, so we are relying on our opponents to help out. Against Goblins, these will hit Land, Creature, and perhaps Instant easily. However, a 2/3 is good enough against Goblins.

River Boa
River Boa, and not Spectral Linx? Yup. See the part about Armadillo Cloak below. Islandwalk is amazing against most decks, and both Swords and Armadillo Cloak offer evasion against Goblins. River Boa can hold off a Mongoose or a Tarmogoyf until you find an enchantment or equipment, your opponent finds a Swords, or you find another creature.

Shriekmaw
I was running Smother alongside Swords and looking for more evasive creatures to wear equipment...everyone loves Shriekmaw. He's a two-for-one, an evasive creature, and hard to counter with Counterbalance. Great.

Duress, Thoughtsieze, 2 Cabal Therapy
Nick pointed out that after a certain number of Duresses, Therapy ends up being just better. I was running 4 Duress, 4 Thoughtsieze, but you always know what cards you fear, and you often know your opponents hands following a Duress. Feel free to play with these slots if the 3/3/2 makes you uncomfortable.

Sword of Fire and Ice
With creatures with Fear and Islandwalk, Sword is a house. A Goyf wearing a Swords beats other Goyfs all day long.

The Seriously? parts: Spiritmonger and Armadillo Cloak
But wouldn't this deck be better if you took out Armadillo Cloak and put in Pernicious Deed? I don't think so. Instead of blowing up my Goyfs and Birds, I can make my Goyfs better than theirs.

One River Boa wearing an Armadillo Cloak will race an opposing Tarmogoyf, or play defense against two. A Tarmogoyf wearing a Cloak will race two Goyfs. A Spiritmonger wearing a Cloak will race everything in the format but combo, (or some ridiculous board that I am sure someone can think of. No, it won't stop 4 Piledrivers and 217 other Goblins all at once.)
Oh, Spiritmonger. He doesn't get played because he doesn't have any evasion. Running Armadillo Cloak and Sword of Fire and Ice give evasion to everyone's favorite superfatty. Even without evasion, Spiritmonger makes Thresh find and resolve a Mystic Enforcer. Even one connection from a Cloaked Spiritmonger is a 16 point life swing (or 8 points + (8-Tarmogoyf's toughness) + 1 card advantage). Getting a creature sent farming in response to Armadillo Cloak is disappointing; Duress, Thoughsieze, and Therapy should aim for Swords to Plowshares.

Cards not in the deck
Pernicious Deed: Shriekmaw and Swords provide removal for the team, while River Boa and Goyf stall the ground. Instead of stalling into a reactive board sweeper, they stall into Spiritmonger or an Armadillo Cloak to end the game.

Troll Ascetic: Troll is one of my favorite creatures of all time. He dodges Swords to Plowshares, carries an Armadillo Cloak or a Sword like a champ, and holds off Goyfs while killing Mongeese. However, a 3/2 for 1GG is terribly slow. To block and kill a Mongoose costs 2GGG; to block with Boa is only 1GG. Boa also has evasion built into it. I was sad to remove Troll from the deck, but I think the deck is stronger without him.


Strengths of the Deck
The deck does a pretty good job of dodging Chalice for 1, Trinisphere, and Counterbalance. The creatures in the deck are evenly matched or better than Thresh's creatures, and if an Armadillo Cloak ever resolves and swings, the game breaks wide open. The deck is not reliant on its graveyard, and it can pack hate from two of the strongest hate colors.


Matchups
I am not satisfied with my testing to post percentages. In fact, I want to do more testing before I post anything conclusive. So far I have done random testing against a variety of decks instead of dedicated testing against any decks. This let me get a feel for the matchups and the deck's performance, but certainly did not give me enough games to post conclusive match results. Plus, as I played games against different decks, the deck adapted. I tested against Thresh first, then moved on to Goblins, and it became clear that the deck needed to be shored up against the little green men (as opposed to the huge green men). I do have the themes of the matchups, however.

Remember, more testing data will be listed as I do more testing. I wanted to get this list up here sooner than later, though, and let other people chime in their thoughts and ideas while I keep working on it.

Against Goblins, you have Plague in the Sideboard. This match is tough, but not unwinnable. Getting a Cloak or Sword to stick to a creature early is the goal; if you can, you have a decent shot at winning. If you don't, you will probably lose. Engineered Plague helps, but it won't win you games two and three on its own.

Against Thresh, stick creatures early and often. Save Swords to Mystic Enforcer; you have 4 River Boa, 4 Tarmogoyf, 4 Shriekmaw, and 4 Spiritmonger to deal with Goyfs and Mongeese. Spiritmonger is a house; it will shut down everything but Enforcer until he is sent farming. There were originally only three Spiritmongers in the deck, but he goes farming too often, so I bumped him back up to four.

Against TES, Belcher, etc: Play game one. Why not? Side in more hand disruption, Gaddock Teeg, and try to pick up the second two games. With Thresh the dominant deck of the moment, I focused on beating Thresh and hoping to dodge combo in the first few rounds. You will still run into it at some point, so hope you can pull out the second two games.

Against Breakfast: Engineered Plague their key dudes, send guys farming, and smash with evasive Cloaked guys. I haven't tested this matchup yet.

Against Landstill: Slow roll the dudes. River Boa shines here. This is a matchup where Sword of Fire and Ice is much, much better than Armadillo Cloak. Pretty straightforward: slowroll a threat until they deal with it, then try another one. Gaddock Teeg in the sideboard comes in, but he'll probably go farming. Obviously, bate Swords with River Boa and Tarmogoyfs, but you will have to go for it sooner than later.

Conclusion
I like the deck. A Spiritmonger wearing an Armadillo Cloak is will end any game within a turn or two. The deck does have a fair amount of inherent strength, but it doesn't do anything stupid or broken. Thresh is a much more streamlined deck; the number of cantrips also makes it more consistent than this. Goblins is a much stronger aggro deck. The combo game is rough. However, the deck is decent enough that I continued development of it, and I think it is good enough to be posted here. It needs work, and I will keep testing the matchups until I post them here. The deck is best suited for a metagame full of Thresh and decks aiming to beat Thresh, not a metagame ripe with combo and Goblins.

Questions, Ideas for Further Thought, etc
Sensei's Diving Top: An excellent source of card quality over the course of the game. Should anything come out for it?

Krosan Tusker: Helps reach 5 or 6 land, generates card advantage, and is even a 6/5 creature for his trouble. I ran two for a while, but dropped them when I increased the Spiritmonger count back to four.

Pernicious Deed: I predict this card's exclusion and Armadillo Cloak's inclusion to be the biggest contention points.

The Goblins matchup: Is it as hard as I thought? Does it need more attention? Is it worth more attention, even if it is unfavorable?

The Combo matchup: Is there more effective hate than Gaddock Teeg to bring in? He stops Belcher, Tendrils, Empty the Warrens, and is strong against Landstill as well. Does this spot need to be more dedicated to hating on the combo matchup?

Is this deck really better than the 45 other GBW aggro, aggro-control, and control decks submitted to the contest so far? Obviously, I think that it is at least worth more attention, or else I would not have posted it.

mujadaddy
01-01-2008, 01:14 AM
I know you named the deck after it, but if you dumped the Armadillo-Cloak for ... Rancor... or jeez, Aspect of the Wolf, or Loxodon Warhammer, or Grafted Wargear or, or, or..., and put in Innocent Bloods over the StP's, you could go entirely :g::b: ... I know -- it utterly kills the name...

AngryTroll
01-01-2008, 04:50 AM
There are a few good replacements for Armadillo Cloak, namely Loxodon Warhammer and Rancor. However, neither one is as good as the Cloak. Warhammer overcomes the limitation of Enchantments, but costs 6 to get onto a creature, ensuring that you have to spread it over two turns. Rancor does not do nearly enough against Goblins...or really, anything else for that matter. You win the Goyf war, sure, but you lose the life gain (which is actually pretty relevant).

Swords to Plowshares can also be replaced, with Innocent Blood, Smother, or another removal spell in black. Unfortunately, black removal has a very tough time killing Mystic Enforcer. Remember, the goal is to force a ground stall, then break the stall with an Armadillo Cloak on an evasive creature (swinging through for damage while making up for the opponents counterswing) or a Spiritmonger. Mystic Enforcer doesn't care about Goyfs and River Boas clogging up the ground. An Innocent Blood at that point will simply nail your opponents clogged up ground creatures. Fledgling Dragon, Eternal Dragon, Sutured Ghouls, and even Akromas don't care about an Innocent Blood.

Individually, Swords and Armadillo Cloak can each be replaced, but the loss of both for the stabilization of the manabase is probably not worth it. As it is, there are four Heaths to fetch a basic plains, and 3 Savannahs to be fetched. You really only need one white source, and the mana requirements in the deck are only stringent on green. Really, your turn one plays are green and black, your turn two plays are green and black, and only turn three at the earliest do you need white mana. Dropping to two colors allows you to consider Wasteland (Which I wanted in the deck), but you want to hit 5 or 6 mana in the lategame for Tarmogoyfs and Shriekmaws.

bladewing019
01-01-2008, 05:11 AM
If you want to keep the life gain wouldn't Sword of Light and Shadow be another viable replacement for cloak that doesn't put you in a position to be so easily 2-for-1'd.

mujadaddy
01-01-2008, 10:33 AM
[stuff]That's what I thought you'd say :laugh: ...just wanted to bring it up. :wink:

Happy Gilmore
01-01-2008, 02:50 PM
where the heck is Gaddock Teeg? One card that can put the nail in the coffin against combo...it should be in there somewhere.

MattH
01-01-2008, 02:52 PM
4 Spiritmonger seems way too many.

Unless you really need the lifegain - and from the looks of things, you don't - Griffin Guide looks a lot better than Cloak. Flying is much better evasion than Trample, and the token can be very useful.

AngryTroll
01-01-2008, 03:20 PM
Well, there are 4 Gaddock Teeg in the sideboard. Does that count?

Shriekmaw and River Boa come with built in evasion. The Trample helps Goyf and Spiritmonger. The reason I have been using Armadillo Cloak instead of Griffin Guide, Rancor, Briar Shield, etc, is that a River Boa wearing the Cloak can race a Goyf. A Goyf wearing it can race two Goyfs all day long. A Goyf wearing a Griffin Guide is still pretty strong, but it probably will not race two Goyfs. Against Goblins, the life gain is very important.

Griffin Guide and Armadillo Cloak both cost 3, both give +2/+2, and both give evasion. The 2/2 Token left over from Guide is a nice bonus, but removal in response to casting the enchantment completely dodges this bonus. Flying is better evasion, true, but with the lifegain of the Cloak, your opponent really can't chump block due to trample, and they swinging back often won't make up the life gained from the Cloak. The lifegain almost ends up working like Vigilance-Plus. You get to attack, but you get to make up the life you lose to the creature you were going to block (plus some more, if it is Goyf vs Goyf).

4 Spiritmonger is a lot, and one often ends up in hand with another in play. Due to Swords to Plowshares, Wrath, and Deed, I figured that this was alright. I did play around with -1 Spiritmonger, -1-2 (something), +2-3 Krosan Tusker. I love Krosan Tusker, and he seemed pretty strong in the deck, but I wasn't really happy with taking out anything else besides the fourth Spiritmonger.

Nihil Credo
01-01-2008, 05:04 PM
4 Spiritmonger is a lot, and one often ends up in hand with another in play. Due to Swords to Plowshares, Wrath, and Deed, I figured that this was alright. I did play around with -1 Spiritmonger, -1-2 (something), +2-3 Krosan Tusker. I love Krosan Tusker, and he seemed pretty strong in the deck, but I wasn't really happy with taking out anything else besides the fourth Spiritmonger.
Then it seems to me you should have gone -1 Spiritmonger, +1 Krosan Tusker. Piggy doesn't get worse because it's a singleton.

MattH
01-01-2008, 08:04 PM
The 2/2 Token left over from Guide is a nice bonus, but removal in response to casting the enchantment completely dodges this bonus.

I guess the lifegain is more important than I had given it credit for, but this is not a valid argument, since the same applies to any of the options being discussed.

AngryTroll
01-01-2008, 08:08 PM
I guess the lifegain is more important than I had given it credit for, but this is not a valid argument, since the same applies to any of the options being discussed.

I just meant that Armadillo Cloak is almost entirely superior to Griffin Guide, because both suffer the same weakness to removal (Griffin Guide doesn't even leave a token if the creature goes farming), cost the same, give the same +2/+2, and both grant evasion. The Armadillo Cloak gives Lifelink, while the Griffin Guide leaves a token if your...River Boa gets Terrored? If any guy gets Terminated? If Goyf gets Vindicated? The played removal spells that kill a regenerating creature and put it into the yard are very few and far between.

from Cairo
01-01-2008, 09:29 PM
Is Spiritmonger def better than Mystic Enforcer? With the hefty discard package, 'Maws and Swords, Fetches, and some of you're guys inevitably being GY'd Threshold seems achievable at midgame, and Enforcer breaks ground stalemates, where Spiritmonger, well, doesn't.

Shriekmaw
01-01-2008, 09:40 PM
The only card which seems a little out of place is Spiritmonger. The main issue that I have with him is the casting cost of 5. This decks seems run on efficient creatures and spells. I don't believe Spiritmonger fits this mold that well.

Also, Sword of Fire & Ice should be replaced with Profane Command, that card is unbelievable in a deck like this.

I would also find some room to fit at least 2 eternal witnesses in.

Here a quick sample of what I would run:

Armadillo Stompy

4 Birds of Paradise
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Shriekmaw
3 Doran, The Seize Tower
2 Loxodon Hierarch
2 Eternal Witness

4 Thoughtsieze
2 Cabal Therapy
4 Swords to Plowshares

4 Armadillo Cloak
2 Profane Command

4 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Savannah
4 Bayou

AngryTroll
01-03-2008, 09:55 PM
Mystic Enforcer is a house in Threshold, but in this deck, getting to Thresh is pretty difficult. If you manage to use 3 fetchlands out of your first 4 or 5 land, you still need to find a combination of 4 Duresses, Thoughtsiezes, Swords, and Shriekmaws, or have a Bird/River Boa go to the graveyard (not farming). On turn 3 (with a Birds), turn 4, or turn 5 (when you cast Spiritmonger), Mystic Enforcer is only a 3/3 Pro Black. In the lategame, sure, he is the 6/6 Flying Pro Black dude we have come to love.

I played with Bob in the deck, but between the Thoughsiezes, Fetchlands, and Shriekmaws, he is a real liability. Even in the list you posted, with an average CC of just under 1.5, flipping a Shriekmaw or Hierarch can throw away games you should win. On the other hand, Armadillo Cloak offsets Bob's lifeloss easily. I will test him again with Cloak in the list. I didn't think to put Bob back in the deck after Armadillo Cloak was in it.

Spiritmonger is a huge threat to a lot of decks. With the more controlling builds of Threshold that have become popular lately, his 5 mana casting cost is fine, and once he comes down, he dominates the board until he is sent farming. Good luck to an opponent that send your Goyf farming, because if you play around Daze, their answers are now Force and finding another Swords.

Phantom
01-04-2008, 02:11 PM
I see some major problems here that I think you will run into while testing:

1) Armadillo Cloak. There's a reason no one runs it despite its powerful effect. It makes opponents Swords to Plows into card (and tempo) advantage! Why would you ever, EVER want to do this. Why not make their Brainstorms into Ancestral Recalls while you're at it? There is a reason they created equipment. The reason was that every creature enchantment ever sucked by turning removal into card advantage (except Rancor). I can see very few situations where I would want Cloak over Jitte, and about 56 million situations where I would vastly prefer Jitte to Cloak.

2) Birds of Paradise. While we're at it, let's turn sweepers into card advantage. Also, Birds are best used in decks with few one drops that want to accelerate into 3 drops (since really they can't be counted on living much longer). You are sadly lacking in the three drops (and a cloak on a bird is not exactly a strong play). The bigger problem is that you almost NEVER want to drop a bird first turn. You run 8 discard spells so you will almost always want to cast them first (except maybe Therapy, which we will get to in a min) so Birds will more than likely be an extremely crappy turn two drop that accelerates you into your 4 mana spells of which you run none.

3) 5 drops. You run 8 five drops. 8! At least four are occasionally useful in the early game, but I'm sorry I just cannot understand Spiritmonger. You can tout how great he is all day, but that will never make up for his short comings. He is 5 mana. He is a non evasive 6/6. Mystic Enforcer is better, cheaper, and I've STILL never seen a deck that runs more than two maindeck. Why? Becuase fatties are too often dead. They are dead in your opening hand (hence running 4 is a terrible idea as they will often be in your opening grip and occasionally even in multiples). They are dead if you don't have the mana (good thing no one runs Daze, Waste, Stifle, or Sinkhole in this format). They are dead against combo. They are dead if you are being swarmed by the time they come out. Of course it kicks ass with a cloak on it. It's a 5 mana creature with a three mana enchantment on it! The only five mana beater that sees any play is Slogger, which devotes like half the deck to powering it out as early as turn 1 (and maybe Gigapede, which I love). At most, you should be running this as a two of, but since it's 2 full mana off your entire curve cutting it and losing some land would open up a lot of slots. Hell they made a 5/5 that costs 3. Seems ok to me.

4) Cabal Therapy. I fail to see the synergy here. Why would you ever sac a non Bird creature? It's going to be card disadvantage too often. Cut them and bump Duress and TS up to 4, or run Hymn or something. I wouldn't even run it in the board unless I had some more one drop creatures (for the more devestating turn 2 flashback).

5) Deed. Seems to me that any blown Deed against you is going to be game. I might add some needles to the board in addition to Grips.

AngryTroll
01-04-2008, 11:09 PM
I see some major problems here that I think you will run into while testing:
While this is true, I have done testing with the deck; it is not just completely tossed out there. I have not tested enough, but I stated that in the opening post. I have run into some of these problems; some were not as bad as I thought, and others were pretty bad. But I did not just toss the list out here without working on it.


1) Armadillo Cloak.

1) Armadillo Cloak. There's a reason no one runs it despite its powerful effect. It makes opponents Swords to Plows into card (and tempo) advantage! Why would you ever, EVER want to do this. Why not make their Brainstorms into Ancestral Recalls while you're at it? There is a reason they created equipment. The reason was that every creature enchantment ever sucked by turning removal into card advantage (except Rancor). I can see very few situations where I would want Cloak over Jitte, and about 56 million situations where I would vastly prefer Jitte to Cloak.


Yes, Swords to Plowshares is not our friend. However, I didn't find this to be as bad as I thought it would be. First of all, Goyf, River Boa, Shriekmaw, and Spiritmonger all go farming ASAP anyways. Swinging for a turn with a bare creature can draw removal from opponents. They will probably hold it back and actually wait for the Cloak to appear, which is synergistic with the 8 discard spells the deck packs.
Once you do fire off a discard spell, you have an opening to play Armadillo Cloak. Even a single connection from a Cloaked creature can end the game by creating such a large swing in life totals.

Also, see Godzilla's quote from the Angel Stompy Thread:


A green splash also gives you the option to run Armadillo Cloak, which is surprisingly good with Cataclysm, and is technically faster than (or at least as fast) all your other equipment, in that it's "equipped" the same turn it hits play. It's excellent at ending Goyf standoffs and it makes for a huge life total swing early on in the game, which can be vital for winning the war of attrition. If I were going to try to make Angel Stompy work in this environment, I think the light green splash is where I'd start.

If Godzilla thinks that the limitations of the Enchantment card type can be overcome, then I think that it is worth at least testing the card before dismissing it out of hand. And it is worth noting that Cataclysm, especially when saving equipment and/or enchantments (artifact = Swords of Fire and Ice and not Razor Golem) makes Swords to Plowshares even more of a liability.

I don't want to underplay that Swords is really good against the deck, because it is, but the deck does what it can to avoid walking into two-for-ones.

2) Birds of Paradise vs Duress/Therapy.

2) Birds of Paradise. While we're at it, let's turn sweepers into card advantage. Also, Birds are best used in decks with few one drops that want to accelerate into 3 drops (since really they can't be counted on living much longer). You are sadly lacking in the three drops (and a cloak on a bird is not exactly a strong play). The bigger problem is that you almost NEVER want to drop a bird first turn. You run 8 discard spells so you will almost always want to cast them first (except maybe Therapy, which we will get to in a min) so Birds will more than likely be an extremely crappy turn two drop that accelerates you into your 4 mana spells of which you run none.

First turn Birds; second turn Duress, Tarmogoyf is an amazing play. On the draw against Thresh, fearing a Brainstorm, Counterbalance, first turn Duress is better. Other than that, this sequence of plays is usually stronger.

First turn Birds, second turn River Boa with regeneration mana is also plenty strong, as is second turn Goyf, Swords; etc. This comes directly from experience with Survival, packing Goyf, Survival, Burning Wish, Birds, Duress, and Therapy; not just from the limited testing with this deck I have done so far.

3) Spiritmonger and Shriekmaw


3) 5 drops. You run 8 five drops. 8! At least four are occasionally useful in the early game, but I'm sorry I just cannot understand Spiritmonger. You can tout how great he is all day, but that will never make up for his short comings. He is 5 mana. He is a non evasive 6/6. Mystic Enforcer is better, cheaper, and I've STILL never seen a deck that runs more than two maindeck. Why? Becuase fatties are too often dead. They are dead in your opening hand (hence running 4 is a terrible idea as they will often be in your opening grip and occasionally even in multiples). They are dead if you don't have the mana (good thing no one runs Daze, Waste, Stifle, or Sinkhole in this format). They are dead against combo. They are dead if you are being swarmed by the time they come out. Of course it kicks ass with a cloak on it. It's a 5 mana creature with a three mana enchantment on it! The only five mana beater that sees any play is Slogger, which devotes like half the deck to powering it out as early as turn 1 (and maybe Gigapede, which I love). At most, you should be running this as a two of, but since it's 2 full mana off your entire curve cutting it and losing some land would open up a lot of slots. Hell they made a 5/5 that costs 3. Seems ok to me.


As I said, I did play with only 3 Spiritmonger and 1 Krosan Tusker. Even then, though, Shriekmaw really reads like this:
1B: Destroy target non-black, non-artifact creature.
Kicker 3: Put a 3/2 Fear creature into play.

I fail to see the problem with this. The deck runs plenty to do on the first three or four turns, and with the much maligned Birds of Paradise, 5 mana isn't that tough on turn 4.

You compare this deck to Threshold, which runs 2 Mystic Enforcer/ 2 Fledgling Dragon. True, but that deck also runs 18 land and cantrips. RGBSA runs 21 land, 4 Bird, and Baloths, Stomphowlers, Shriekmaws, and even Genesis. The two decks I play the most are UGw Thresh and RGBSA, so I feel that I have an understanding of the differences in the land base between the two.

Spiritmonger is a house. He must be removed with Swords to Plowshares against Threshold. True, against "weenie swarms", like Goblins?, he is pretty slow. Against Threshold, the deck I had most in mind when building this, he comes down in plenty of time and must be sent farming. However, the cards that need to be sent farming are the River Boas, the Goyfs, the Spiritmongers, and sometimes the Shriekmaws. That is 12-16 creatures vs. 4 Swords and the cantrip engine to find them.

Against "Weenie Swarms", Armadillo Cloak buys time to cast game ending creatures. However, what weenie swarms get played in Legacy?

4) Cabal Therapy


4) Cabal Therapy. I fail to see the synergy here. Why would you ever sac a non Bird creature? It's going to be card disadvantage too often. Cut them and bump Duress and TS up to 4, or run Hymn or something. I wouldn't even run it in the board unless I had some more one drop creatures (for the more devestating turn 2 flashback).

Hence only 2 Cabal Therapy. After the first 6 Duresses and Thoughtseizes, you will often know what you can name with Cabal Therapy. Even blind, though, you should know what to name against an opponent. You are correct that you will often not flashback Therapy, but you should be able to connect with the first hit. Also, note that I said that if you are more comfortable with the extra two Duress/Thoughtseize, to run them. I found 2 Therapy better the last two Duresses.

5) Deed


5) Deed. Seems to me that any blown Deed against you is going to be game. I might add some needles to the board in addition to Grips.
Well, besides the regeneration of River Boa, Spiritmonger, and the 5cc of Spiritmonger and Shriekmaw, this is true. However, the deck is running 8 of the best discard spells in the format, can slowroll it's threats against a deck packing Deeds (because one Spiritmonger is plenty on the board at a time, as is a Goyf wearing equipment or Armadillo Cloak).

Krosan Grip is in the board, and Pithing Needle is welcome there also.


The deck is supposed to be a midrange aggro deck designed to take on Threshold. The Goblins matchup isn't amazing, and neither is the Landstill matchup, but both are winnable. Game one against combo is not good at all, so bring in as much hate as possible for the second two games. I feel that Sideboarding helps the matchups against Goblins, Landstill, and Combo enough to make the deck at least decent enough for the contest. Is it tier 1? Obviously not. Tier 2? Probably not. Will it destroy an unprepared metagame? I think so. Can it be furthered to be good enough to run? Again, I think so.

Isamaru
01-05-2008, 02:28 AM
Why has he had to so viciously defend Armadillo Cloak?

Don't laugh... it works!

Anyway, I think you should consider Necravolver. :smile:

Moczoc
01-05-2008, 08:18 AM
Here in Germany I saw some people playing a deck with 4 Armadillo Cloak, 4 Troll Ascetic and 4 Silhana Ledgewalker. That seems the best way to avoid card disadvantage from StP's.