[Deck] Vial Affinity

[largebrandon]

I play RBG Affinity in MTGO Classic, and it almost exactly the same as a legacy deck would be (besides the skullclamps). I have had amazing results:

4 Ravager
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Frogmite
3 Enforcer
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Ornithopter
3 Workers
2 Atog

4 Chromatic Star
3 Cranial Plating
2 Jitte
3 Berserk
4 Skullclamp

12 RBG artifact lands
2 Blinkmoth Nexus
2 Mishra's Factory
2 City of Brass

If I would convert this to legacy, I would probably throw in vials instead of the clamps. Having an berseked atog or ravager is amazing, or even having a berserked goyf deal 10 damage can be a game ender right there.

I hope this list can help anyone build a list for legacy.

[cheddercaveman]

Personally, the only reason your playing green is for goofy. I'd drop the green for blue. You still have red so that means something like fling or shrapnel blast is probably enough to push that last bit of damage through the same way goofy does. Blue lets you add a bit more consistency (the draw spell that I can NEVER remember which is really U draw 2), with better sideboard options (stifle comes to mind). Every deck does not need goofy to be better.

The maindeck crypt's don't seem like a bad idea either, same thing with needles. I'd run more (especially w/out blue) so that they can actually consistently come into your hand.

[DragoFireheart]

I like the idea of main-deck Crypts as graveyard hate is always a good thing.

Tell me though, how does this deck deal with Energy Flux and other artifact hate?

[Shriekmaw]

I like the idea of main-deck Crypts as graveyard hate is always a good thing.

Tell me though, how does this deck deal with Energy Flux and other artifact hate?


The Energy Flux issue is an easy one. No one plays that card, so you should never run into it. That also goes with a lot of good artifact removal. You hardly see a lot of stuff that you should worry about.

It your metagame starts to run a lot of good removal for affinity, then simply play a different deck. This deck is a good choice for a large metagame, not a small one.

[DragoFireheart]

The Energy Flux issue is an easy one. No one plays that card, so you should never run into it. That also goes with a lot of good artifact removal. You hardly see a lot of stuff that you should worry about.

It your metagame starts to run a lot of good removal for affinity, then simply play a different deck. This deck is a good choice for a large metagame, not a small one.

Well... it's funny you say that. There's always this one kid who doesn't run anything other than Affinity. I always have Energy Flux ready for him. :laugh:

[kabal]

The Energy Flux issue is an easy one. No one plays that card, so you should never run into it.

That is untrue; I ran it last week due to Stax and Affinity rearing their ugly head in my meta again. Low and behold, I got paired against an Affinity player. Take a wide guess how the second game went after we boarded?

[Shriekmaw]

That is untrue; I ran it last week due to Stax and Affinity rearing their ugly head in my meta again. Low and behold, I got paired against an Affinity player. Take a wide guess how the second game went after we boarded?


I was just generalizing. Sure, some players may run it in there board, but I wouldn't worry about it too much. If they have it, they have it. This is another reason why green is needed so you have Krosan Grip in the board. Green is so much better than blue, its not even funny.

[DragoFireheart]

I was just generalizing. Sure, some players may run it in there board, but I wouldn't worry about it too much. If they have it, they have it. This is another reason why green is needed so you have Krosan Grip in the board. Green is so much better than blue, its not even funny.

Well if you don't have the Grip when they cast it... GG :cry:

[Getsickanddie]

I like the idea of main-deck Crypts as graveyard hate is always a good thing.

They are pretty good in the right meta. Worst case scenario they can build your artifact count early game, or be eaten by Ravager/Atog.



Tell me though, how does this deck deal with Energy Flux and other artifact hate?

Hate can be difficult to win through. A lot really depends on how many non-artifact threats and mana sources you run.

[cheddercaveman]

Just be thankful the guy who knows you play Affinity is boarding in Energy Flux and not Null Rod, E-flux you *might* be able to play around. Null Rod is GG for you.

[erhnamdjinn]

Just be thankful the guy who knows you play Affinity is boarding in Energy Flux and not Null Rod, E-flux you *might* be able to play around. Null Rod is GG for you.

Qft and null rods are seeing more play in Legacy right now, atleast in my meta. Affinity is basically dead in our meta, it even lost to meathooks.

[ClearSkies]

Just be thankful the guy who knows you play Affinity is boarding in Energy Flux and not Null Rod, E-flux you *might* be able to play around. Null Rod is GG for you.

You can actually still play those affinity creatures and attack with them when Null Rod is out. Glimmervoid can still lets you play some stuff, but otherwise, yea, Null Rod (and extreme Artifact hate like these) ends the game for Affinity.

You don't really have much room to do when one Energy Flux is out. Of course, multiple Energy Flux is even more extreme.

There was a FoW/blue-based affinity deck that attempts to answer hate cards with Force of Will if you really like affinity that much. (I think that is in another thread)

[cheddercaveman]

I've not seen terrific results there either. I think the deck is lacking in the number of blue cards to make the splash worth while generally or you have to take too much out for the counters I guess. A couple of guys tried to "sneak" in with that style of affinity like a month or 2 ago and still got their ass whooped. I think blue makes sense, but stifle and drawing cards is probably the better reason. Maybe a 1-of Academy Ruins.

[Skinny Oprah]

You can actually still play those affinity creatures and attack with them when Null Rod is out. Glimmervoid can still lets you play some stuff, but otherwise, yea, Null Rod (and extreme Artifact hate like these) ends the game for Affinity.

You don't really have much room to do when one Energy Flux is out. Of course, multiple Energy Flux is even more extreme.

There was a FoW/blue-based affinity deck that attempts to answer hate cards with Force of Will if you really like affinity that much. (I think that is in another thread)

it's AfFOWnity and it's not so hot

And not directed at anyone in particular:
Affinity will never consistently be a good performer when it is so easily hated out, we've established this. Lets try and avoid running around in circles.

[Niksodus]

Affinity's strategy against the hate should be to outraceing it.

[Fons]

I dug my old affinity deck out, the SB is useless as it is all cards for the matchup.

Heres the Main Deck

Artifacts
4 Chromatic Sphere(soon to be replaced by star)
4 Aether Vial
4 Cranial Plating

Artifact Creatures
4 Ravager
4 Frogmite
3 Myr Enforcer
4 Arcbound Worker

Creatures
4 Disciple of the vault
2 Somber Hoverguard

Spells
4 Shrapnel Blast
4 Thoughtcast

Land
2 Glimmervoid
3 Nexus
4 Vault
4 Seat
4 Furnace
2 Darksteel Citadel
It looks like my deck isn't up to snuff, no ornithopter, no atog, no fling.

[Shriekmaw]

To get a good starting point on the deck, just scroll above and look at my most updated list of Vial Affinity. You may not agree with all the cards that I run, but its a very good start for someone that is interested in running this deck in future Legacy tournaments.

If you have any questions, please feel free to PM me, and I'll be more then happy to answer them. Take Care.

[BreathWeapon]

After seeing it at PT Valencia, I think there's a legitimate argument for Tarmogoyf in this deck. Despite having zero synergy, the card really is that retarded. Since it uses such a drastically different strategy from the rest of the deck, it's actually quite good against any hate. I'm not sold on it, but it definitely doesn't seem that radical any more.

[largebrandon]

After seeing it at PT Valencia, I think there's a legitimate argument for Tarmogoyf in this deck. Despite having zero synergy, the card really is that retarded. Since it uses such a drastically different strategy from the rest of the deck, it's actually quite good against any hate. I'm not sold on it, but it definitely doesn't seem that radical any more.

zero synergy? Goyf is probably biggest with affinity considering that you have artifacts that can count as creatures or lands also.

[puddn]

After seeing it at PT Valencia, I think there's a legitimate argument for Tarmogoyf in this deck.

i said that here before the PT and nobody believed me (isn't it nickrit?)

[b4r0n]

Tarmogoyf does seem quite strong in this deck, since it dodges the artifact hate that will inevitably be brought in post-board and speeds up your clock even more. The list (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/ptval07/top8decklist) that top 8'd at Valencia is pretty sick for other reasons too: maindeck Crypts and Needles, sideboard Therapies, Smothers, and Spell Snares. Hell, a direct port to Legacy would probably fare pretty well.

[Niksodus]

Since you cannot have a 4color version with consistency and aggressiveness, if you play green for Goyf and Berserk, should you kick out blue or red?

[kicks_422]

Why not?

4 Vault of Whispers
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Tree of Tales
2-4 Glimmervoid

Then you also have Chromatic Stars and Aether Vials...

[insertnamehere]

Why not?

4 Vault of Whispers
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Tree of Tales
2-4 Glimmervoid

Then you also have Chromatic Stars and Aether Vials...

Null Rod

[Bovinious]

No one plays Null Rod, and if for some reason people in your area do, dont play Affinity, seems pretty simple.

[Niksodus]

Why not?

4 Vault of Whispers
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Tree of Tales
2-4 Glimmervoid

Then you also have Chromatic Stars and Aether Vials...Consistency.

[nastynate]

Goyf Affinity shouldn't be bad at all in theory. Green has berserk and/or rancor and all the side-board answers you could possibly want (krosan grip, seal of primordium, putrefy). Mind you I haven't played affinity in a couple years, but I've played against it fairly recently. How about something like the list that follows.

Artifact Creatures
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Epochrasite
4 Ornithopter

Black Creatures
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Dark Confidant

Green Creatures
4 Tarmogoyf

Other
4 Aether Vial
4 Ankh of Mishra
4 Rancor
3 Cranial Plating
3 Umezawa's Jitte

Mana
4 Tree of Tales
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Bayou
3 Forest
3 Swamp

You've got ravager and goyf for big beaters, cranial plating, jitte, and rancor (or berserk if you prefer) to pump your men. Ankh of mishra for massive damage against fetch-land users. Epochrasite is great with aether vial and comes back with a vengeance if sacrificed to ravager. Bob, disciple, and ornithopter round out the deck. The ten non-artifact lands should be sufficient enough to cast side-board answers. I'm not sure what the side-board would be (since this decklist is completely off the top of my head), but between black, green, and artifact solutions it seems like you could come up with some viable answers.

I may be completely wrong, given that I haven't tried this out, but it looks pretty darned good to me. Obviously, like all affinity decks, it's weak against combo and hate bombs (null rod, kataki, energy flux, etc), but I like it.

Anyone else have any ideas? Now that I'm thinking about it, I'm kind of curious how good goyf affinity could actually be.

[APriestOfGix]

Goyf Affinity shouldn't be bad at all in theory. Green has berserk and/or rancor and all the side-board answers you could possibly want (krosan grip, seal of primordium, putrefy). Mind you I haven't played affinity in a couple years, but I've played against it fairly recently. How about something like the list that follows.

Artifact Creatures
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Epochrasite
4 Ornithopter

Black Creatures
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Dark Confidant

Green Creatures
4 Tarmogoyf

Other
4 Aether Vial
4 Ankh of Mishra
4 Rancor
3 Cranial Plating
3 Umezawa's Jitte

Mana
4 Tree of Tales
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Bayou
3 Forest
3 Swamp

You've got ravager and goyf for big beaters, cranial plating, jitte, and rancor (or berserk if you prefer) to pump your men. Ankh of mishra for massive damage against fetch-land users. Epochrasite is great with aether vial and comes back with a vengeance if sacrificed to ravager. Bob, disciple, and ornithopter round out the deck. The ten non-artifact lands should be sufficient enough to cast side-board answers. I'm not sure what the side-board would be (since this decklist is completely off the top of my head), but between black, green, and artifact solutions it seems like you could come up with some viable answers.

I may be completely wrong, given that I haven't tried this out, but it looks pretty darned good to me. Obviously, like all affinity decks, it's weak against combo and hate bombs (null rod, kataki, energy flux, etc), but I like it.

Anyone else have any ideas? Now that I'm thinking about it, I'm kind of curious how good goyf affinity could actually be.

I see a glaring lack of blue.

I would have pulled red, over blue for Goyf is ANYTHING! I still think Atog and Fling are better answers, as they say "You Win" against anything w/o counters. Also Fling can be amazing.

[nastynate]

I see a glaring lack of blue.

I would have pulled red, over blue for Goyf is ANYTHING! I still think Atog and Fling are better answers, as they say "You Win" against anything w/o counters. Also Fling can be amazing.

The glaring lack of blue hurts exactly how? You don't have brainstorm or force of will, but affinity never really supported them well to begin with. You do lose thoughtcast, which is unfortunate, but confidant isn't a terrible replacement.

Berserk is just as good as fling, if you want an "I Win" card against decks without counters, and goyf is meant to substitute for atog as your second massive beater. I put rancor in instead of berserk since I feel sustained power is better than one shot, but YMMV.

I'm certainly not saying that the proposed deck list is flawless, but any flaws inherent to the list are not because of the color combination. Can you give more specific reasons why atog is superior to goyf, fling is superior to berserk (or rancor), and blue is better than dark confidant? I (quite obviously) don't understand.

[Iranon]

I don't see a problem with cutting blue.

The thing Thoughtcast really excels at is grabbing the last land + cheapass/vialable artifacts to let us play Myr Enforcer for free early on (ideally in multiples). I still prefer the old-school approach, but if you add Goyfs you might as well be consistent about it (making your mana base more resilent, avoid being randomly raped by Bob, cutting dummy artifacts like Chromatic Star or Paradise Mantle...)

[bigredmeanie]

I always prefered red because it gives access to Shrapnel Blast, and that card is good w/o a huge investment. Also, Goyf will just soak up removal, which MIGHT be ok if your playing with Bob and Desciple, otherwise all artifact beaters are better because they all dodge as long as you've got a Ravager in play.

Rancor is better than Berserk bc it means your Ornithopters aren't dead most of the time.

Are any of the Baubles playable in this? Burn seems to be playing them, and this can actually use them until it needs them. Just a thought.

Epochrasite might be good, not sure. You HAVE to play it with Vial, but when you do it's not bad, and when you sac it it'll be back in a few turns, assuming the game lasts that long. I don't think it will.

Shouldn't this deck just run 4 MD Thorn of Amethyst, in place of Jitte, Jitte is too expensive/slow for what it does for this deck. This is a fast aggro deck, Jitte is too slow for it.

I just realized the last list isn't running anything with affinity. What's the point in calling it affinity if your not running any of those cards. Ravager/Plating aren't that good on their own.

[nastynate]

I always prefered red because it gives access to Shrapnel Blast, and that card is good w/o a huge investment. Also, Goyf will just soak up removal, which MIGHT be ok if your playing with Bob and Desciple, otherwise all artifact beaters are better because they all dodge as long as you've got a Ravager in play.

Goyf isn't the end all / be all of this deck, but it's easily a 3/4 for 2 mana, and potentially much bigger when facing a goyf mirror. If it soaks up removal, its doing its job.


Rancor is better than Berserk bc it means your Ornithopters aren't dead most of the time.

That depends on what your game plan is. If you want to combo out as fast as possible, berserk can take a ravager or cranial plating-equipped creature and turn it into a game ending home run. Rancor, on the other hand, is better when you are trying to play small ball (the aggro approach).


Are any of the Baubles playable in this? Burn seems to be playing them, and this can actually use them until it needs them. Just a thought.


Baubles are playable, but there are things soooo much better.


Epochrasite might be good, not sure. You HAVE to play it with Vial, but when you do it's not bad, and when you sac it it'll be back in a few turns, assuming the game lasts that long. I don't think it will.

Epochrasite isn't terrible considering the mana cost, though I'd run enforcer instead if I wasn't also running dark confidant. Epochrasite won't cost you 7 life.


Shouldn't this deck just run 4 MD Thorn of Amethyst, in place of Jitte, Jitte is too expensive/slow for what it does for this deck. This is a fast aggro deck, Jitte is too slow for it.

Yeah, It really should. I just threw the last list together, to show that green IS a viable option in affinity.


I just realized the last list isn't running anything with affinity. What's the point in calling it affinity if your not running any of those cards. Ravager/Plating aren't that good on their own.

Call all it whatever makes you happy. :smile:

[Skinny Oprah]

Call all it whatever makes you happy. :smile:

Awful.

[APriestOfGix]

I just realized the last list isn't running anything with affinity. What's the point in calling it affinity if your not running any of those cards. Ravager/Plating aren't that good on their own.

And Vintage Stax dosn't run Stax, but it's still called Stax. The whole point of the name is what i makes you think of. Stax makes you think of a artifact board control deck; Affinity, Ravagers, and Artifacts; Madness, Wild Mongrels, and discard friendly cards.

[Iranon]

Well, there's more to the name than just Smokestack...

But decks generally evolve from powerful synergy -> reliable and more independently good cards; dropping signature cards is the most extreme example.

We could be consistent in the application of 'Not-quite-x', but that's as lame as 'Artist-formerly-known-as-x' and since when was Legacy consistent with its naming traditions anyway...

[bigredmeanie]

My intent with that naming bit was not to provoke a naming-convention conversation. It was to point out the fact that you're running a lot of very vulnerable cards that are not inherently stronger than non-artifact ones. In other words, running so many artifact lands, and inefecient cards isn't wise if you're not even ramping up to Enforcer. Unfortunately, I can see why both Enforcer and Frogmite got cut. Enforcer is expensive, and no longer big enough, and if your not running Enforcer, Frigmite sucks too. He's too small, and only really ever helped the 'curve' of the deck.

Suggestion, cut Ravager for Atog add Fling and sBlast to turn it into BR artifact burn. Keep green, you'll need goyf.

[largebrandon]

Suggestion, cut Ravager for Atog add Fling and sBlast to turn it into BR artifact burn. Keep green, you'll need goyf.

I like the idea of Ravager AND Atog. Add Berserk and Fling and you have some hurting action.

[kabal]

Has anyone tried out Springleaf Drum (http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=139509)? While not as good as Vial, it is better than Paradise Mantle since it isn't an equipment.

[BreathWeapon]

Has anyone tried out Springleaf Drum (http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=139509)? While not as good as Vial, it is better than Paradise Mantle since it isn't an equipment.

It's great in Extended and good in Legacy, but I wouldn't use it over Aether Vial unless I wanted to support non-creature spells.

As an aside, for any one running Tree of Tales and Tarmogoyf (or just Tree of Tales), Root Maze is a brutal, brutal SB card against blue decks and marginally useful against Storm.

Edit: Ankh of Mishra is a fantastic idea, I'm going to give it a lot of consideration.

[Moczoc]

I don't really know if the idea is dumb ... but isn't Affinity the best deck for the new worded Phyrexian Dreadnaught? By simply adding 4 Naughts and 4 Stifles (and Stifle is even a great card by itself!) you have at least 3 possibilities to get it into play.
1. play or vial Naught, Stifle CiP-effect (-> turn2)
2. play Naught and Vial in a second one and sac it to the CiP-effect (-> turn2)
3. play Naught and sac a cranial plated Enforcer or Goyf (-> midgame)

[APriestOfGix]

I don't really know if the idea is dumb ... but isn't Affinity the best deck for the new worded Phyrexian Dreadnaught? By simply adding 4 Naughts and 4 Stifles (and Stifle is even a great card by itself!) you have at least 3 possibilities to get it into play.
1. play or vial Naught, Stifle CiP-effect (-> turn2)
2. play Naught and Vial in a second one and sac it to the CiP-effect (-> turn2)
3. play Naught and sac a cranial plated Enforcer or Goyf (-> midgame)

Johnny: Sounds Fun...

Timmy: YEAH! PARTY!!!

Johnny: Ok, lets party, this sound like a cool way to win...

*Spike comes into the party, and bashes both Timmy and Johnny's heads in*

Spike: No

[Cait_Sith]

To make it more clear:

If you run StifleNought you need counterspells to keep StP from becoming the world's best sweeper spell.

Of course, you also need to run draw to find the counterspells and the StifleNought.

You'll also need ways around cards like Chalice of the Void, so Echoing Truth/Disenchant/Krosan Grip would be needed.

At this point you are running so few artifacts you might as well cut them for more draw, counterspells, and some removal.

You'll end up wandering right into StifleNought control.

[nastynate]

Edit: Ankh of Mishra is a fantastic idea, I'm going to give it a lot of consideration.

Yeah, Ankh of Mishra is absolutely brutal in affinity, no matter the color combination you happen to prefer. Everyone should run it.

[Skinny Oprah]

Yeah, Ankh of Mishra is absolutely brutal in affinity, no matter the color combination you happen to prefer. Everyone should run it.

I suppose if you're playing in a 43land.dec or landstill saturated metagame....other than that I wouldn't bother


Edit: Looking back I see that you're running Dark Confidant AND Ankh of Mishra, do you have a death wish?

[APriestOfGix]

Edit: Looking back I see that you're running Dark Confidant AND Ankh of Mishra, do you have a death wish?

Don't run ether?

answer solved.

[Skinny Oprah]

Don't run ether?

answer solved.

I'll solve YOUR answer.

I wasn't suggesting he run one or the other, just pointing out the potentially lulzy situation that may arise from running those two cards (which I don't support in an Affinity build)

[Berzerked]

To those thinking of replacing Atog with Tarmogoyf: Disciple of the Vault becomes significantly weaker in the absence of these 3 additional, Vial-able sacrifice outlets.

[BreathWeapon]

I suppose if you're playing in a 43land.dec or landstill saturated metagame....other than that I wouldn't bother


Edit: Looking back I see that you're running Dark Confidant AND Ankh of Mishra, do you have a death wish?

All it takes is a single Fetchland for a "Shrapnel Blast" or a single Dual Land for a "Shock" to the opponent. If the deck incorporates other LD elements, from Wasteland and Rishadan Port to Sphere of Resistance and Thorns of Amethyst or even Root Maze the damage is either going to pile up or bottle neck the opponent.

[Skinny Oprah]

All it takes is a single Fetchland for a "Shrapnel Blast" or a single Dual Land for a "Shock" to the opponent. If the deck incorporates other LD elements, from Wasteland and Rishadan Port to Sphere of Resistance and Thorns of Amethyst or even Root Maze the damage is either going to pile up or bottle neck the opponent.

I mean...well, I guess we can just ignore that the card hurts you and that it's not good at all.

Wait, we're still talking about affinity, right?

[BreathWeapon]

I mean...well, I guess we can just ignore that the card hurts you and that it's not good at all.

Wait, we're still talking about affinity, right?

Well, I guess we can just ignore logic:confused:

Is there another aggro deck in this format where life is both A) relevant against it and B) Ankh isn't assymetrical against it?

As long as Ankh rapes blue decks, I couldn't care less what it does and doesn't do in other match ups.

[largebrandon]

As long as Ankh rapes blue decks, I couldn't care less what it does and doesn't do in other match ups.

You and I could be good friends! :)

Anywho, Ankh is a VERY interesting idea. I think I'm going to try that one in my Classic Affinity deck on MTGO. I've decided to move to an exclusive Black/Green deck with Bob's and Goyfs - seems to work VERY well with Berserk

[Shriekmaw]

I agree that Ankh of Mishra is a good card against blue based decks, but what blue based decks are we really concerned about? The only deck that is somewhat difficult to beat is landstill variants. We totally crush threshold decks, so I don't think the card is that relevant there.

My main concern with cards in the board, is to improve are worst matchup. That is by far to be combo, a similar problem that goblins also face. I'm not sure if Ankh of Mishra is a better board card then say chalice + therapy that is really good against combo.

What are some of the boards that you guys have been running at some of your local tournaments?

[nastynate]

I agree that Ankh of Mishra is a good card against blue based decks, but what blue based decks are we really concerned about? The only deck that is somewhat difficult to beat is landstill variants. We totally crush threshold decks, so I don't think the card is that relevant there.

My main concern with cards in the board, is to improve are worst matchup. That is by far to be combo, a similar problem that goblins also face. I'm not sure if Ankh of Mishra is a better board card then say chalice + therapy that is really good against combo.

What are some of the boards that you guys have been running at some of your local tournaments?

Ankh is good against anything running fetch-lands (which is a heck of a lot more than just blue-based control decks), so its certainly a viable main deck option. It's an artifact, it inflicts 5 points per fetch, and it plays directly to affinity's aggro game plan. I can't see pulling it in from the side-board however, since it isn't actually an answer; ankh is something you board out against combo decks.

I've seen quite few people run sphere of resistance against combo, and now that we have thorn of amethyst, an 8 sphere side-board plan seems like a pretty solid option. If you were planning to do that, however, you'd probably want to run some combination of ancient tombs and/or city of traitors in the main deck, which really limits your color options.

[BreathWeapon]

I agree that Ankh of Mishra is a good card against blue based decks, but what blue based decks are we really concerned about? The only deck that is somewhat difficult to beat is landstill variants. We totally crush threshold decks, so I don't think the card is that relevant there.

My main concern with cards in the board, is to improve are worst matchup. That is by far to be combo, a similar problem that goblins also face. I'm not sure if Ankh of Mishra is a better board card then say chalice + therapy that is really good against combo.

What are some of the boards that you guys have been running at some of your local tournaments?

Well, you have to look at the mentality of the Affinity player. You're playing Affinity specifically to take advantage of control and aggro-control and still beat the rest of the field on the back of being an aggro-combo deck. That really only leaves 2 forms of combo out there, graveyard combo and storm combo. Graveyard combo pushes storm combo out of the metagame (at least I think it does), and Graveyard combo is the easiest form of combo to SB against, because neutralizing the Graveyard usually neutralizes the entire deck.

So, you basically say "uncle" to Storm combo and either MD Tormods Crypts to hedge against Graveyard combo, or you maximize your win percentages against blue decks and just rely on a HUGE SB to take down graveyard combo (Leyline, Crypt, Jailor etc).

Affinity in this format is like the Terminator, it doesn't give a shit about what else is out there or who else is gunning for it, it's on a mission to kill Sarah Conner and that annoying B rate actor that always gets himself killed in action movies.

If you want to try building an all purpose Affinity capable of dealing with Storm combo, I think MD Thorn of Amethyst, Root Maze, Gaddock Teeg and Cabal Therapy are all worth looking into. Gaddock Teeg, theoretically, would be amazing against both Graveyard and Storm combo and relatively useful against control and aggro-control, but the color combination is god awful.

[raharu]

New ideas for the deck:
Myr Servitor
Night's whispers if you don't run bule
Pyroclasm + Ravager + Disciple of the vault = WOW, damage
Mishra, Artifacer Prodigy = Nice
Grafted Wargear
More acrbound, possibly stinger?

I play with my affinity alot (but no tournies with it yet), and this has all worked well enough from my experience. I've played with R/B affinith that worked well.

[Berzerked]

New ideas for the deck:
Myr Servitor
Night's whispers if you don't run bule
Pyroclasm + Ravager + Disciple of the vault = WOW, damage
Mishra, Artifacer Prodigy = Nice
Grafted Wargear
More acrbound, possibly stinger?


- No.
- Maybe. I remember playing with it in Extended.
- ?. Ravager + Disciple = WOW, damage already. Unless I'm missing something, I don't understand what Pyroclasm does there.
- Good luck finding the color before you could have won without him.
- Plating already costs 3 to play and equip, and is much better.
- No.

[largebrandon]

I don't think I like Night's Whisper. I'd prefer Bob than the whisper

[Iranon]

Grafted Wargear generally doesn't hold a candle to the mighty Hat.

Pyroclasm is rarely needed as the deck simply out-aggros other decks; the most likely application - mass tokens - is more elegantly dealt with by Engineered Explosives.

Mishra is too difficult to cast.

Myr Servitor only makes sense if you also include Goblin Welder. While decent as such, they do not meet the requirements of Legacy. Affinity is generally optimised for going for the throat (emphasising the aggro or combo aspect of the deck depending on the list) for a reason.
Going for more staying power is a questionable design decision in a format that features fast combo and (albeit rarely) backbreaking control. It's kill fast or disrupt fast.

[chocomel]

Hey guys,
Here's my deck list I made after I had the idea of adding 4 dark rituals.


2 City of Brass
2 Glimmervoid
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of the Synod

4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Frogmite
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Ornithopter
2 Myr Retriever
3 Phyrexian Walker
3 Dark Confidant

4 Cranial Plating
3 Lotus Petal
3 AEther Vial
4 Dark Ritual
4 Thoughtcast
2 Chromatic Star

60 Lands: 16, Spells: 20, Crt: 24

I tried to adjust the deck to become faster, which resulted in a few thing;

Cutting the disciples, which I often had in my hand after winning the game or not being effective or slowing you down in not being an artifact.

Adding 3 petals to have a bigger chance in dropping frogmites turn 1 and to have 11 black mana sources.

Dark rituals, the greatest improvement i think, making it able to cast and equip a t1 plating and swing the next turn for 4-6

3 Dark Confidants, they are nice to play t1 but after that you don't want to draw them..

4 Thoughcast, the best drawer in affinity.

2 Chromatic stars, food for ravenger.

3 Aether vials, not sure about them yet.

3 Phyrexian Walkers, can stall the game, and makes it able to cast frogmites t1.


I tried to make the deck faster and more aggressive and it plays really fast.
Not sure if its better than other deck but I wanted to know your opinions about my "new approach".

Greetings

Michel

[Bovinious]

Cutting the disciples, which I often had in my hand after winning the game or not being effective or slowing you down in not being an artifact.


WOW...are you for serious? Disciple is the most broken piece in the deck other than possibly Ravager, see the Extended banned list if you dont believe me. Also, temporary mana sources like Dark Ritual and Lotus Petal are bad in affinity, Dark Ritual isnt even an artifact, and Lotus Petal doesnt stay on the board. You should run 17-18 lands then a set of chromatic stars and aether vials for mana fixing, nothing in this deck costs more than 2 so more mana isnt really needed. Phrexian Walker and Myr Retriever (had to look THAT one up...) are also both really bad, wheres Myr Enforcer, Atog, and the already mentioned Disciple?

[Waikiki]

Hey guys,

I don't know if this is the correct thread to post this list in. But i've been trying some other things with affinity and add some more controll elements.

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [MR] Vault of Whispers
4 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
2 [DS] Blinkmoth Nexus
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [EX] City of Traitors

// Creatures
4 [DS] Arcbound Ravager
4 [AQ] Ornithopter
4 [MR] Frogmite
4 [UD] Phyrexian Negator
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant

// Spells
2 [CH] Tormod's Crypt
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [FD] Cranial Plating
4 [ON] Smother

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [MR] Skeleton Shard
SB: 4 [MR] Disciple of the Vault
SB: 4 [FUT] Yixlid Jailer
SB: 4 [UL] Engineered Plague
SB: 2 [PLC] Extirpate

The chalice is there to protect my creatures from removal like stp and lightning bolt.

[nastynate]

Hey guys,

I don't know if this is the correct thread to post this list in. But i've been trying some other things with affinity and add some more controll elements.

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [MR] Vault of Whispers
4 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
2 [DS] Blinkmoth Nexus
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [EX] City of Traitors

// Creatures
4 [DS] Arcbound Ravager
4 [AQ] Ornithopter
4 [MR] Frogmite
4 [UD] Phyrexian Negator
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant

// Spells
2 [CH] Tormod's Crypt
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [FD] Cranial Plating
4 [ON] Smother

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [MR] Skeleton Shard
SB: 4 [MR] Disciple of the Vault
SB: 4 [FUT] Yixlid Jailer
SB: 4 [UL] Engineered Plague
SB: 2 [PLC] Extirpate

The chalice is there to protect my creatures from removal like stp and lightning bolt.

The Good

Being able to set chalice at 1 counter is excellent against more than just swords to plowshares and lightning bolt; it hits brainstorm, divining top, spell snare, duress, thoughtseize, and numerous other staples. The downside is that you won't be able to run 1CC threats consistently if you plan to play chalice, and there are some doozies that you're missing out on.

Thorn of amethyst is also excellent, impeding decks with low mana curves, and causing nightmares for many combo decks. It has unbelievable synergy with affinity creatures too, simultaneously making them easier to play, while making your opponents' spells more challenging to play. Too bad you cut the myr enforcers.

The Bad

Phyrexian Negator is terrible. In a format overrun with tarmogoyfs, negator is a one-sided board sweeper, and your not on the right side.

Chrome Mox is sorely lacking. You only have 12 possible spells to imprint on it, and the card disadvantage is not worth what you get out of it. Lotus petal would be better, and that's not saying much.

Smother is handy, but a well built affinity deck should run over any creature-based strategy with ease. You're critters should be bigger and badder than anything you can hit with smother. Even tarmogoyf has trouble with ravager, cranial plating-equipped ornithopters, atogs, berserk, and/or fling.

Dark Ritual? Rituals, thorns, and chalice of the void (set to 1) do not belong in the same deck.

Dark Confidant is normally really good, but you don't have much to compliment him. Usually you want some sort of library manipulation (top), or an extremely low mana curve to make him easier to exploit. You have negators and frogmites (terrible disciple flips), and also cut most of your potential speed (disciple, atog, goyf, berserk, or fling), so I suspect you'll have trouble racing other aggro decks...affinity should not have this problem.

The Ugly

Ummm...did another person just cut disciple of the vault? You do realize that disciple is perhaps the best card in the whole modular-affinity archetype right? DO NOT CUT DISCIPLE!

In Short

I say keep the tombs, city of traitors, and thorns, but try not to shoot yourself in the foot. If you wanna play the mana denial angle, add wasteland and sphere of resistance, and put the disciples, aether vials, and myr enforcers back in. If you're going to run confidant, run tops too, so you can dodge the affinity creature top decks. You'll be slower than ballz-to-wall affinity builds, but you'll wreak havoc on the tempo of your opponents. Good Luck.

[APriestOfGix]

The Good

Being able to set chalice at 1 counter is excellent against more than just swords to plowshares and lightning bolt; it hits brainstorm, divining top, spell snare, duress, thoughtseize, and numerous other staples. The downside is that you won't be able to run 1CC threats consistently if you plan to play chalice, and there are some doozies that you're missing out on.

Thorn of amethyst is also excellent, impeding decks with low mana curves, and causing nightmares for many combo decks. It has unbelievable synergy with affinity creatures too, simultaneously making them easier to play, while making your opponents' spells more challenging to play. Too bad you cut the myr enforcers.

The Bad

Phyrexian Negator is terrible. In a format overrun with tarmogoyfs, negator is a one-sided board sweeper, and your not on the right side.

Chrome Mox is sorely lacking. You only have 12 possible spells to imprint on it, and the card disadvantage is not worth what you get out of it. Lotus petal would be better, and that's not saying much.

Smother is handy, but a well built affinity deck should run over any creature-based strategy with ease. You're critters should be bigger and badder than anything you can hit with smother. Even tarmogoyf has trouble with ravager, cranial plating-equipped ornithopters, atogs, berserk, and/or fling.

Dark Ritual? Rituals, thorns, and chalice of the void (set to 1) do not belong in the same deck.

Dark Confidant is normally really good, but you don't have much to compliment him. Usually you want some sort of library manipulation (top), or an extremely low mana curve to make him easier to exploit. You have negators and frogmites (terrible disciple flips), and also cut most of your potential speed (disciple, atog, goyf, berserk, or fling), so I suspect you'll have trouble racing other aggro decks...affinity should not have this problem.

The Ugly

Ummm...did another person just cut disciple of the vault? You do realize that disciple is perhaps the best card in the whole modular-affinity archetype right? DO NOT CUT DISCIPLE!

In Short

I say keep the tombs, city of traitors, and thorns, but try not to shoot yourself in the foot. If you wanna play the mana denial angle, add wasteland and sphere of resistance, and put the disciples, aether vials, and myr enforcers back in. If you're going to run confidant, run tops too, so you can dodge the affinity creature top decks. You'll be slower than ballz-to-wall affinity builds, but you'll wreak havoc on the tempo of your opponents. Good Luck.

Just want to give props, to someone for actually making a good comment about a bad build. You are my hero!

Finally someone does something beside, noob learn to play!

It's nice to see smart people post...

[Waikiki]

I don't play dark ritual in my deck :)

I included negator cause it's a low casting cost beater with trample. So It wont hurt my confidant that much and its great with an equipment on it.

Chalice hopefully protects him from getting burned.

I just couldn't find a better beater in the slot. Myr enforcer is a little too high in the cc to get flipped by confidant.

Affowinity gets away with running such a low amount of colored sources for the mox. I'd just like to think a little outside the box.

[nastynate]

I don't play dark ritual in my deck :)

My bad. I'm so conditioned to seeing phyrexian negator and dark ritual paired together, that I saw something that just wasn't there.


I included negator cause it's a low casting cost beater with trample. So It wont hurt my confidant that much and its great with an equipment on it.

Cranial plating is better on a creature with evasion (like ornithopter or nexus) than it is on a creature that will force you to sacrifice the permanents that pump up the plating in the first place.


Chalice hopefully protects him from getting burned.

I understand, but protecting your creatures from burn is not necessary. One of the things that makes modular-affinity so good is that fact that spot removal is meaningless against it, since you simply sacrifice creatures in response to removal spells, causing life-loss with disciple of the vault, while simultaneously pumping up another artifact creature. Until you added negator, and cut disciple, you weren't particularly vulnerable to burn spells.


I just couldn't find a better beater in the slot. Myr enforcer is a little too high in the cc to get flipped by confidant.

Frogmite and negator are still bad confidant flips, and combined with ancient tombs and a slower clock, that damage will not only add up, but it will cost you games. It'd be a different story if you had a turn 3-4 goldfish (since the self-afflicted damage won't have time to add up), but you don't. Add 4 sensei's divining top. You can then put the enforcers back in, dodge painful dark confidant flips, and sacrifice the extra (unneeded) tops to your ravagers.


Affowinity gets away with running such a low amount of colored sources for the mox. I'd just like to think a little outside the box.

Chrome mox and mox diamond have been tried over and over again in affinity builds, and yet they never make the cut. You're not actually breaking new ground here; you're just making the same mistake many of us already made a couple years ago when we tried the same thing.

We all think to ourselves, "Self, many of the best cards in affinity cost two mana, and yet we have to wait until turn two to cast them. Why don't we add some artifact mana to speed up the clock?" Then after a little testing we discover that the card disadvantage, the reduced number of MD artifacts, and loss of artifact-land drops actually slow us down. Even lotus petal turns out rather poor, since it may enable stronger turn one plays, but it has no value beyond turn one (you'd rather top deck another artifact land).

AfFoWinity is built to drop chalice of the void at one counter and plays 16-18 blue cards (not 12) in order to support chrome mox and force of will (and from my experience the number of blue spells is still too low). The theory being that MD disruption makes affinity more resilient, and game ending bombs (like energy flux and kataki) harder for your opponent to find and resolve. The surprise factor is gone now, and when it comes down to it, all this has done is convert afFoWinity from an aggro-combo deck to an aggro-control deck. Now there is nothing wrong with aggro-control, but affinity is poorly situated to this role while other decks (like threshold) are much better at it. Don't be fooled by afFoWinity...it gets beaten by threshold at its own game, while traditional affinity builds give threshold a serious run for its money. AfFoWinity may have a fighting chance against combo, but would you sacrifice a good match-up against the most dominant deck in the format for a slightly stronger game one against combo?

Trust me, I'm not trying to shoot down your good ideas (thorn of amethyst is a godsend for this archtype and you are wise to consider it). I'm just trying to save you the trouble of making mistakes that I've seen countless others make before. Whether or not you choose to follow that advice is entirely up to you.


Just want to give props, to someone for actually making a good comment about a bad build. You are my hero!

Finally someone does something beside, noob learn to play!

It's nice to see smart people post...

I try my best. :smile:

[Iranon]

Since we're throwing around odd decklists and concepts... could a version that emphasises 0-cost artifacts compete? Just a rough draft...

Null Affinity.

4 Darksteel Citadel
2 Great Furnace
2 Seat of the Synod
2 Ancient Den
1 Vault of Whispers
1 Tree of Tales

4 Urzas's Bauble
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Ornithopter
4 Phyrexian Walker
2 Shield Sphere
2 Tormod's Crypt


4 Springleaf Drum
4 Arcbound Worker

4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Cranial Plating

4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer

4 ?

Not sure what would belong in the last slot. Disciple would be a conservative choice (should be some good with all the Baubles), possibly something like Erayo. So far, I only tried this with Street Wraith as filler, which is probably not ideal. The list consistently gets ridiculous openings, with Springleaf Drum being the star of the deck but it does run out of steam more than regular Affinity.





I know this isn't Vial Affinity, strictly speaking... but this probably doesn't deserve its own thread.

[largebrandon]

I know this isn't Vial Affinity, strictly speaking... but this probably doesn't deserve its own thread.

Having a ton of 0cc artifacts aren't that great. I mean, dumping your hand with 0cc artifacts which leave you with no attackers isn't a good feeling. Sure, it might help you play a turn 1 frogmite or even a turn 1 enforcer, but when that happens, you really don't have anything to play the next turn.

[nastynate]

4 Urzas's Bauble
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Ornithopter
4 Phyrexian Walker
2 Shield Sphere
2 Tormod's Crypt

I personally hate the baubles, and wouldn't even run the 4 that some other people do. I know they cantrip, cost nothing, and sac to ravager, but they don't actually help you win. I'd rather have bombs than cute tricks.

Ornithopters are good because they come down for nothing and build up the artifact counts for affinity creatures, but most importantly they fly. Cranial plating on an ornithopter wins the game if your opponent doesn't have an answer within a couple turns.

Tormod's crypt is also not too bad, since it has an effect that is viable in todays metagame, though I doubt they'd pull their weight in most match-ups. Definitely side-board worthy however.

Walker and sphere do not further your game-plan other than being free artifacts. Maybe if skullclamp wasn't banned they might be more useful, but since we don't have the clamp (LOL that sounds like an STD) I can't really see how this helps. It looks like you cut cards that win for cards that help you cast early enforcers. I'm not seeing the benefit.


4 Springleaf Drum

Springleaf drum looks pretty good for any affinity deck trying to sport 3 colors, but other than that, I can't imagine it being much more than ravager food.

What I want from affinity are artifacts that actually do something to win the game (ravager, plating, ankh of mishra, thorn of amethyst, etc). I only want to sacrifice them to ravager when somebody tries to use spot removal, or when I'm about to combo out with disciple to end the game. Artifacts there solely to feed ravagers are weaker than artifacts that serve a useful purpose on their own.

[Fons]

since most affinity builds play red would Fatal Frenzy be a good budget replacement for Berserk

[Jeet]

since most affinity builds play red would Fatal Frenzy be a good budget replacement for Berserk

I think Fling is better than Fatal Frenzy if you're playing red, since it can deal damage without attacking and costs less.

[Bane of the Living]

My bad. I'm so conditioned to seeing phyrexian negator and dark ritual paired together, that I saw something that just wasn't there.



Cranial plating is better on a creature with evasion (like ornithopter or nexus) than it is on a creature that will force you to sacrifice the permanents that pump up the plating in the first place.



I understand, but protecting your creatures from burn is not necessary. One of the things that makes modular-affinity so good is that fact that spot removal is meaningless against it, since you simply sacrifice creatures in response to removal spells, causing life-loss with disciple of the vault, while simultaneously pumping up another artifact creature. Until you added negator, and cut disciple, you weren't particularly vulnerable to burn spells.



Frogmite and negator are still bad confidant flips, and combined with ancient tombs and a slower clock, that damage will not only add up, but it will cost you games. It'd be a different story if you had a turn 3-4 goldfish (since the self-afflicted damage won't have time to add up), but you don't. Add 4 sensei's divining top. You can then put the enforcers back in, dodge painful dark confidant flips, and sacrifice the extra (unneeded) tops to your ravagers.



Chrome mox and mox diamond have been tried over and over again in affinity builds, and yet they never make the cut. You're not actually breaking new ground here; you're just making the same mistake many of us already made a couple years ago when we tried the same thing.

We all think to ourselves, "Self, many of the best cards in affinity cost two mana, and yet we have to wait until turn two to cast them. Why don't we add some artifact mana to speed up the clock?" Then after a little testing we discover that the card disadvantage, the reduced number of MD artifacts, and loss of artifact-land drops actually slow us down. Even lotus petal turns out rather poor, since it may enable stronger turn one plays, but it has no value beyond turn one (you'd rather top deck another artifact land).

AfFoWinity is built to drop chalice of the void at one counter and plays 16-18 blue cards (not 12) in order to support chrome mox and force of will (and from my experience the number of blue spells is still too low). The theory being that MD disruption makes affinity more resilient, and game ending bombs (like energy flux and kataki) harder for your opponent to find and resolve. The surprise factor is gone now, and when it comes down to it, all this has done is convert afFoWinity from an aggro-combo deck to an aggro-control deck. Now there is nothing wrong with aggro-control, but affinity is poorly situated to this role while other decks (like threshold) are much better at it. Don't be fooled by afFoWinity...it gets beaten by threshold at its own game, while traditional affinity builds give threshold a serious run for its money. AfFoWinity may have a fighting chance against combo, but would you sacrifice a good match-up against the most dominant deck in the format for a slightly stronger game one against combo?

Trust me, I'm not trying to shoot down your good ideas (thorn of amethyst is a godsend for this archtype and you are wise to consider it). I'm just trying to save you the trouble of making mistakes that I've seen countless others make before. Whether or not you choose to follow that advice is entirely up to you.



I try my best. :smile:

Hi NastyNate welcome to our discussion on Vial Affinity.

We've developed the list to a point were Dark Confidant is an auto include to the archetype. There are alot of preferences that range from there.

Thoughtcast was the only reason to play the old B/R/u lists and it was for the card draw. Since Affinity's birth its recieved an on color card that can be vialed out uncounterably, equiped with cranial plating, and absorb a StP.

Going two colors also has benefits such as cutting Chromatic Star and Glimmervoid/City of Brass for Badlands.

Chalice of the Void maindeck is his preference obviously and something I had at least in my sb of this deck. Any aggro deck that can drop Chalice for one in a format full of Threshold and then go aggro from there is pretty good. Thats where AfFOWnity originated from as you noted.

Now that Thorn has come out Im sure its better to maindeck that than CotV.

Negator I loved in my builds since dropping him turn 2 off Chrome Mox or Tomb is always good. Goyfs or no Goyfs. And btw Trampling Negs with Platings will usually do lethal whether or not you'll be sacing your board.

Dotv out of the main does seem odd but maybe his meta calls for it.

Whats your suggested build??

[Shriekmaw]

I would like to know what is happening with this Vial Affinity thread? I've been just skimming through this thread lately and saw some pretty horrible deck builds. I love to discuss new and interesting cards, but it seems like we are not making any progress lately.

I tested Dark Confidant in the deck which has been okay for me, but I've cut in in favor of Tarmogoyf with no draw spells. I prefer the pure aggressive version, b/c in legacy I believe we have to race all the decks since there is a lot of hate I really don't want to face.

Here is the most recent build which I think is very good. Suggestions? Changes? Bring it on guys. :)

Vial Affinity

4 Tree of Tales
4 Whispers of the Vault
4 Great Furnace
4 Darksteel Citadel
2 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Glimmervoid
4 Aether Vial
4 Frogmite
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Chromatic Star
3 Ornithoper
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Cranial Plating
2 Pithing Needle
2 Atog
2 Tormod’s Crypt
2 Berserk


SB

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Engineered Plague
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Krosan Grip
1 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Pithing Needle

[Happy Gilmore]

No thoughtcast? Seems kind of suspect to me. My bigest issue with Tarmogoyf in this deck is the fact that he gets countered by Counterbalance, Myr Enforcer doesn't. I don't know how everyone wants to build Affinity but taking advantage of having threats that cannot be countered due to the mechanic seems key. Cards like Somber Hoverguard look alot better because of it.

[Iranon]

In a version without Confidant, isn't Enforcer at least as good as Tarmogoyf though? He's usually cheaper, reasonably big immediately, multiples allow for truly explosive starts and you can easily pump him with Ravager to outclass anything you are likely to face.

Is it practicable to run both, giving you a nice number of big creatures without sacrifice tricks?

[Shriekmaw]

In a version without Confidant, isn't Enforcer at least as good as Tarmogoyf though? He's usually cheaper, reasonably big immediately, multiples allow for truly explosive starts and you can easily pump him with Ravager to outclass anything you are likely to face.

Is it practicable to run both, giving you a nice number of big creatures without sacrifice tricks?


I took a lot of consideration with the Myr Enforcer/Tarmogoyf debate, but thought at the end Tarmogoyf was the better creature. I know that you can drop Enforcers a lot faster, but overall Tarmogoyf was just more solid.

Counterbalance is not an issue, because the decks that run that card I usually have a very good matchup against. Thoughtcast is too slow which also requires a fourth color into the deck with really dampers on the consistency.

I run a lot of mana fixers in order to assure I can cast 'Goyf'. I believe killing him is a lot tougher in most situations than it is to kill an enforcer.

[Happy Gilmore]

Objectively he is no where near as good as tarmogoyf but he does provide a good sized road stop. The other half needs to come from shrinking Tarmogoyf with Crypt to make him killable by most of your threats. The side effect of MD Crypts are good, Ie making Cephalid Breakfast and Ichorid have a much harder time winning.


4 Myr Enforcer
4 Frogmite
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Arcbound Worker
3 Somber Hoverguard
3 Ornithopter

3 Engineered Explosives
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Thoughtcast
4 Cranial Plating

4 Seat of Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
3 Darksteel Citadel
4 Underground Sea
1 Academy Ruins
4 Ancient Tomb

Its not Vial Affinity per say, but it is the basic Affinity concept.

[kabal]

Has anyone given tried out Springleaf Drum (http://magiccards.info/lw/en/261.html)?

Here is a sample build.

// Lands
3 Darksteel Citadel
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
2 Blinkmoth Nexus
2 Glimmervoid

// Creatures
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Ornithopter
4 Disciple of the Vault

// Spells
3 Shrapnel Blast
4 Thoughtcast

// Artifacts
2 Tormod's Crypt
4 Cranial Plating
4 Springleaf Drum

[Happy Gilmore]

Thats great...but it really doesn't do anything. Star is both color fixing and a cantrip. I would run the other sac artifact mana fixer before I ran Drum. Better yet I would probably just run an artifact that does something useful like EE, Chalice, Thorn, Crypt, and Vial.

Also, I was thinking that Shriekmaw would be great in the sb since it effectively costs 2 and can't be countered by Counterbalance.

[Skinny Oprah]

Thats great...but it really doesn't do anything. Star is both color fixing and a cantrip. I would run the other sac artifact mana fixer before I ran Drum. Better yet I would probably just run an artifact that does something useful like EE, Chalice, Thorn, Crypt, and Vial.

Also, I was thinking that Shriekmaw would be great in the sb since it effectively costs 2 and can't be countered by Counterbalance.

Drum is awful, imo and I agree on the Shriekmaw or something like it; I often find myself needing some creature removal

[Barook]

I took a lot of consideration with the Myr Enforcer/Tarmogoyf debate, but thought at the end Tarmogoyf was the better creature. I know that you can drop Enforcers a lot faster, but overall Tarmogoyf was just more solid.

Goyf can also be vialed in for the matter, so Counterbalance isn't that much of an issue.

[kabal]

I agree on the Shriekmaw or something like it; I often find myself needing some creature removal

Shrapnel Blast

[Shriekmaw]

Drum is awful, imo and I agree on the Shriekmaw or something like it; I often find myself needing some creature removal


I usually don't worry about creatures for the most part because Affinity is just faster and suppose to win by the time your opponent has creatures you actually worry about.

I agree that shrapnel blast is a good answer to kill creatures, but also fling can be used as removal and a good finisher.

Aggro decks aren't the decks that I worry about. I would build your board to help fight against control and combo as those are your weaker matchups.

[APriestOfGix]

Drum is awful, imo and I agree on the Shriekmaw or something like it; I often find myself needing some creature removal

I agree, Paradise mantle is better, does the same thing, and it costs zero for more first turn frogmits!

[Charos]

I disagree, Drum allows you to use the creatures the turn they come into play, which is an unused asset without Drum. It is not uncommon to play like: artifact land, drum, ornithopter. Tap both for worker/sphere/another drum, frogmite for free. I really like this card and I have included it in my deck of Affinity

[APriestOfGix]

I disagree, Drum allows you to use the creatures the turn they come into play, which is an unused asset without Drum. It is not uncommon to play like: artifact land, drum, ornithopter. Tap both for worker/sphere/another drum, frogmite for free. I really like this card and I have included it in my deck of Affinity

well i don't think there is room for ether...

i'm thinking of finding room for somber hoverguards, as flying is greater than myr enforcer...

and it's not hit by artifact hate...

[kabal]

I agree, Paradise mantle is better, does the same thing, and it costs zero for more first turn frogmits!


I disagree, Drum allows you to use the creatures the turn they come into play, which is an unused asset without Drum. It is not uncommon to play like: artifact land, drum, ornithopter. Tap both for worker/sphere/another drum, frogmite for free. I really like this card and I have included it in my deck of Affinity

Drum is strickly better and you beat me to it Charos...anyhow APriestOfGix gets pwnd.

[Skinny Oprah]

Drum is strickly better and you beat me to it Charos...anyhow APriestOfGix gets pwnd.

Not to go back to the whole vial or mantle thing, but both drum and mantle are the weaker choices. Hell, in my metagame, I'd prefer tormod's crypt.

[kabal]

Not to go back to the whole vial or mantle thing, but both drum and mantle are the weaker choices. Hell, in my metagame, I'd prefer tormod's crypt.

No one is disputing Aether Vial, that isn't the point. It was discussing drum on its own merits.

[Skinny Oprah]

No one is disputing Aether Vial, that isn't the point. It was discussing drum on its own merits.

Yeah, and I stated that drum wasn't the right choice

[redmage]

Yeah, and I stated that drum wasn't the right choice

Yeah, debating Drum vs. Mantle seems kinda like debating whether it's better to get kicked in the balls, or punched in the balls.

Just stick with Æther Vial (it caresses the balls gently).

[Shriekmaw]

I just wanted to give a quick update on the Vial Affinity list that I played on Day 2 of the Mana Leak Open III. I ended up going 4-2 with the deck, losing to Survival and a Deadguy variant with the green splash for Goyf.

Here is the list I ended up going with:

Vial Affinity

4 Tree of Tales
4 Whispers of the Vault
4 Great Furnace
4 Darksteel Citadel
2 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Glimmervoid
4 Aether Vial
4 Frogmite
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Chromatic Star
3 Ornithoper
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Cranial Plating
2 Pithing Needle
2 Atog
2 Tormod’s Crypt
2 Berserk


SB

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Engineered Plague
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Krosan Grip
1 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Pithing Needle



The match-ups that I did end up winning were against Vial Goblins, U/G/b Threshold, 4 Color Landstill, and U/G/w Threshold. I was pretty happy with the deck and my play, only losing to bad match-ups that I really can't do anything about.

Tell me what you think of the list. I feel going the more aggressive route tends to be a lot better in the long run at least for me.

[Berzerked]

Right, play Vial and just leave the other two out. Instead play something good like CotV/Thorn. Tormod's crypt is alright, but it's kind of hit or miss. At most a 2-of.
For Affinity enabling Ravager food, I'd stick with Thorn - as it provides a consistent, solid speedbump for your opponent - in addition to that. Pithing Needle is also amazing at that. With this combination, you can put up a lot of resistance, while still remaining fast and aggressive.

[Shriekmaw]

Right, play Vial and just leave the other two out. Instead play something good like CotV/Thorn. Tormod's crypt is alright, but it's kind of hit or miss. At most a 2-of.
For Affinity enabling Ravager food, I'd stick with Thorn - as it provides a consistent, solid speedbump for your opponent - in addition to that. Pithing Needle is also amazing at that. With this combination, you can put up a lot of resistance, while still remaining fast and aggressive.


I wish you could write a little clearly so people on the forms could make out a little better what your talking about. I do not like Chalice or Thorn main deck because you play a lot of cards that either cost 1 mana or 2. Thorn, also makes your non-creature artifacts costs more which is bad synergy with the deck as a principal.

I could see with the possibility of main decking Cabal Therapy if combo is big, but I rather have answers to combo in the board rather then main deck. I think the deck list I posted performs very well. I would love to play Confidant or Thoughtcast into the deck, but I feel it doesn't add enough for me to play them.

[Fons]

is erayo playable? he might provide some protection from the hate

[Happy Gilmore]

I just wanted to give a quick update on the Vial Affinity list that I played on Day 2 of the Mana Leak Open III. I ended up going 4-2 with the deck, losing to Survival and a Deadguy variant with the green splash for Goyf.

Here is the list I ended up going with:

Vial Affinity

4 Tree of Tales
4 Whispers of the Vault
4 Great Furnace
4 Darksteel Citadel
2 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Glimmervoid
4 Aether Vial
4 Frogmite
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Chromatic Star
3 Ornithoper
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Cranial Plating
2 Pithing Needle
2 Atog
2 Tormod’s Crypt
2 Berserk


SB

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Engineered Plague
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Krosan Grip
1 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Pithing Needle



The match-ups that I did end up winning were against Vial Goblins, U/G/b Threshold, 4 Color Landstill, and U/G/w Threshold. I was pretty happy with the deck and my play, only losing to bad match-ups that I really can't do anything about.

Tell me what you think of the list. I feel going the more aggressive route tends to be a lot better in the long run at least for me.

So....your running 4 great furnaces and 2 atogs and no other red spells..that seems like a weak use of those slots. Wouldn't it be better to up the Goyf count to 4 and berzerk to 3 instead? All the while improving your mana base?

[APriestOfGix]

is erayo playable? he might provide some protection from the hate

I'm running Erayo in my deck right, now. Going to tourny this weekend, i'll tell you how i do...

[Shriekmaw]

So....your running 4 great furnaces and 2 atogs and no other red spells..that seems like a weak use of those slots. Wouldn't it be better to up the Goyf count to 4 and berzerk to 3 instead? All the while improving your mana base?



I believe the mana base is correct is 19 lands. The main reason that I want to stay at that number is because in this version of the deck I'm not running any card draw. I like the aggressive style of this deck in the Legacy metagame b/c currently its so fast.

You need the great furnaces for red mana. I realize that its only 2 slots that require red mana, but what other land would you run?

I've played this deck more than anyone. I've tweaked builds quite a bit, and I do know what works in the deck and what doesn't.

I key part for a deck like affinity is consistency. You have to run a high artifact count with a range of 8-12 color spells.

I have a total of 11 color cards in the deck right now which falls in the 8-12 range which I've came up with over years of playtesting.

[Getsickanddie]

I believe the mana base is correct is 19 lands.
You need the great furnaces for red mana. I realize that its only 2 slots that require red mana, but what other land would you run?

I don't think he is questioning the number of land, but the necessity atog, and the four red mana sources that could be bayous.

Personally, if I'm playing berserk I need to run atog. They kind of go hand in hand. That said I haven't been really thrilled with Berserk as of late.

[Media314r8]

I built a Vial-Affinity deck for my buddy, and I call it 'Bob-finity,' bringing me to my first point: You're splashing red for Atogx2, while only running 3 goyfs... I can only hope this is because you lack the lands/goyfs to do otherwise. Black/Green seems like the optimal color combination, as it allows for the strongest two-drops that the deck can run: ravager, goyf, epocricite, and bob. With my build of the deck, the average CMC (according to my friend I built it for) is exactly 1, which seems pretty good for bob. I considered the threat density high enough to warrant jitte as well, as it hoses thresh soundly if it can resolve and stick on a guy. I'm not sure why Epocricite hasn't been discussed yet in an artifact deck running vial... seems fine to me, and is a recurring threat against decks packing deed. I cut the frogmites out of the build, as they have dysenergy with bob, and really, what does a grizzly bear do in this format run by 4/5 goyfs? (even a free grizzly bear) I can't recall the exact list, so forgive me if I misquote this, but this seems like the optimal GB vial affinity list.

//Lands// (19)
1 x Academy Ruins
4 x Darksteel Citadel
4 x Tree of Tales
4 x Vault of Whispers
3 x Seat of the Synod
3 x Glimmervoid

//Artifacts// (29)
4 x Chromatic Star
4 x AEther Vial
4 x Arcbound Ravager
3 x Arcbound Worker
4 x Epochrasite
4 x Ornithopter
4 x Cranial Plating
2 x Umezawa's Jitte

//Non-Artifact Guys// (12)
4 x Dark Confidant
4 x Disciple of the Vault
4 x Tarmogoyf

//SB//
4 x Chalice of the Void
4 x Planar Void
4 x Seal of Primordium
3 x Cabal Therapy

Card choices:

Bob: drop in via vial, and hits 1 life per card on average, gives affinity draw power, and I like walking phyrexian arenas that cost 1B. Makes it more likely to get the awe-inspiring board of double-disciple, ravager.

Eporacite: Possibly a 4/4 uncounterable via vial. Carries Jitte and plating against opposing goyfs and comes back for more. Recurring threat that survives deed, ect. Can be sacced to ravager EOT and suspended if played as a 1/1 (mostly he's in here as a replacement for enforcer that doesnt cost 7 for bob)

Goyf: Grows bigger vial Ravager at instant speed. Artifacts in the bin are a plus, and goyf with jitte or plating is cheating.

Jitte: 2 makes it so you will probably see one if a gmae goes past turn 5, which is about when you want it. Probably never see both copies, and it straight wins games against goblins and thresh.

Academy Ruins: as only a one-of, almost never screws you over on the 'i wsh this were an art land' for plating/glimmervoid, and with 4 stars and 3 seats, activation is not impossible. I played goblins vs this build, and when welder would normally save my army from a jitte, jitte and ravager recursion is something goblins is not preparred for. (jitte recursion vs thresh is usually gg too)

Planar Void: gives the deck a winnable post-boards against iggy, ichorid, and breakfast. Note that it is a triggered ability, so the active player can opt to trigger modular/draw effects from star/recurssion of epocite before the RFG triggers. at B, perfectly recastable and thus superior to leylines. Goyf probably gets boarded out for theese against combo.

Seal: Deck's only answer to null rod. Also helps to beat CB as you can lay it down and not worry about having to resolve it against CB, Alluren, ect.

[Slayer001]

Why Chalice in SB, it has no great synergy with your deck, you want to cast spells of 0,1 & 2 cmc asap so chalice would only slow the deck down you better use pithing needle in that SB place, and I use grip instead of seal but seal is ok to, only grip had split second so they can't respond and it only costs one more

and Pithing needle kills aluren also, you set your needle on the harpie or spike feeder can also, may be better, they can't gain infinite life then =P

[Media314r8]

Chlaice is boarded in and thopter boarded out vs iggy, tes, and belcher, as they use 8 0 mana accel cards, and plara void doest do much vs TES. Needle is worth consideration, as it stops deed. (the only other card the deck auto-loses to aside from null rod, but deed usualy takes a turn to get the mana up) I really thinkt hat chalice is needed to beat storm based combo, as belcher and TES are faster than affinity goldfishes and 3 therapy will not win post-boards. Chalice for 1 is also strong against thresh as it shuts down 1/2-1/3 of their threats and their cantrips/removal. What would you suggest for the SB? (to beat fast/storm combo)

[Shriekmaw]

I don't think he is questioning the number of land, but the necessity atog, and the four red mana sources that could be bayous.

Personally, if I'm playing berserk I need to run atog. They kind of go hand in hand. That said I haven't been really thrilled with Berserk as of late.



I think Atog is a very good creature, but lately I've decided to cut berserk and add blue for thoughtcast in the deck. I'm not sure how much better that will make the deck, but having an ancestral recall in the deck isn't bad that I've heard.

The New/Old School List:

4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
3 Blinkmoth Nexus
3 Darksteel Citadel
3 Great Furnace
2 Glimmervoid
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Aether Vial
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Frogmite
4 Thoughtcast
4 Chromatic Star
3 Myr Enforcer
3 Ornithopter
3 Cranial Plating
2 Atog
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle

SB

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Engineered Plague
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Pithing Needle

[Fons]

I'm running Erayo in my deck right, now. Going to tourny this weekend, i'll tell you how i do...

How did it go?

[Shriekmaw]

How did it go?


You can read the tournament report in the report forms. The results were not good, but I made some suggestions which should help improve the deck a little bit. Go see what I had to say and reply with your thoughts.

[markdirt]

In my opinion we're getting too cute with Vial Affinity. Synergy drives the core of affinity, providing speed and forcing loss of life.

Tarmogoyf is great, but is it necessary? It doesn't get along with Arcbound Ravager, Disciple of the Vault, or any affinity cards. It is not a worthy addition because you lose the tempo and synergy this deck is based on. A 4/4 is not important when I have Cranial Plating and evasion, not to mention a sac engine. Adding green to the deck may provide some utility, but slows you down in the long run.

The same could be said for Dark Confidant. I played that build for many months, and just recently dropped it. Looking for a better mid/endgame defeats the purpose of affinity, since you should have won by then.

Here is the build I played tonight and went 3-1 with. It is not perfect by any means, but I've found [the structure] to be the best. (Yeah, I know the sideboard sucks, I just sleeved some random cards.)

Vial Affinity
12/28/07

4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
3 Ornithopter

4 Thoughtcast
3 Shrapnel Blast

4 Aether Vial
3 Chromatic Star
4 Cranial Plating

3 Blinkmoth Nexus
3 City of Brass
1 Darksteel Citadel
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers


SB

4 Atog
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Naturalize
3 Winter Orb


Round One vs TES
Not much to say here, he won turn two the first game. I sided out 4 Myr Enforcer and added 4 Atog. He lived long enough to create and swing with 18 Goblin tokens, but I took the damage and won with Cranial Plating + Ornithopter. Game three he ran out of cards, couldn't find a win condition, and I kept swinging with my Cranial Plated creatures. 1-0

Round Two vs MWC/Rabid Wombat
Game one I had 48 life at one point from his Swords to Plowshares. Each creature would get an attack before it was removed, so I just absorbed damage until I found a Disciple of the Vault + sac engine for the game. Game two was a little scarier, but I just traded creature for creature until I could push through with Ornithopter + Cranial Plating. 2-0

Round Three vs Reanimation
I was really scared when I saw a turn two Akroma, Angel of Vengeance, but I swung with a Frogmite + Arcbound Ravager, sacked everything to kill the Akroma, and hit him for 5 with Shrapnel Blast. He couldn't deal with my 7/7 Frogmite and the game was mine. I sided in 4 Atog and 4 Tormod's Crypt, removing 4 Myr Enforcer, 3 Chromatic Star, and 1 Thoughtcast. I had a fine hand, but I mulliganed into a Crypt and drew another after I popped the first which was game. 3-0

Round Four vs Belcher
Ummm, yeah. Uh-oh. He won on turn two game one and turn four game two. Not much to say here, terrible matchup. 3-1

[kabal]

Vial Affinity
12/28/07

4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
3 Ornithopter

4 Thoughtcast
3 Shrapnel Blast

4 Aether Vial
3 Chromatic Star
4 Cranial Plating

3 Blinkmoth Nexus
3 City of Brass
1 Darksteel Citadel
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers


SB

4 Atog
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Naturalize
3 Winter Orb


Looks like classic Affinity, which I have always enjoyed. Not sure what your Meta looks like week-to-week, but overall Wasteland and Deed are seeing more play. I'd up the Citadel count. With a few other adjustments, maybe look something like so:

// Lands
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
2 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Glimmervoid

// Creatures
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Frogmite
3 Myr Enforcer
4 Ornithopter
4 Disciple of the Vault

// Spells
1 Fling
2 Shrapnel Blast
4 Thoughtcast

// Artifacts
4 Æther Vial
3 Chromatic Star
4 Cranial Plating

// Sideboard
2 Atog
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Engineered Plague
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Pithing Needle

[Shriekmaw]

If you insist on playing 4 cranial platings then I would suggest Fling over Shrapnel Blast. It will consistently do more damage then Shrapnel Blast over the coarse of a tournament.

Here is my list with the utilization of Fling:

Vial Affinity

4 Seat of the Synod
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Great Furnace
2 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Glimmervoid
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Frogmite
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Thoughtcast
4 Aether Vial
4 Cranial Plating
4 Chromatic Star
4 Ornithopter
3 Myr Enforcer
2 Fling

SB

1 Fling
3 Tormod’s Crypt
3 Pithing Needle
4 Pyroclasm
4 Cabal Therapy

[overseer1234]

I've been lurking around for a while now so i decided to post a list of my own

4x Æther Vial
2x Chromatic Star
4x Cranial Plating
3x Pithing Needle

4x Arcbound Ravager
4x Arcbound Worker
4x Frogmite
4x Ornithopter
4x Dark Confidant
4x Disciple of the Vault
2x Atog

3x Fling

3x Blinkmoth Nexus
4x Darksteel Citadel
3x Glimmervoid
4x Great Furnace
4x Vault of Whispers

Sideboard
4x Tormod’s Crypt
4x Engineered Plague
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Shattering Spree


Here's a short explanation of for some cards
I really like BOB inhere because he can be vial'd in and he makes playing blue irrelevant so i can play a full set of citadels without worrying about the mana base's consistancy, he swings with plating, is flingable and gives card advantage, and because I don't play thoughtcast the highest amount of damage that i can take is from the frogmites...

The needle is just to good for words and you mostly name wasteland, deed or powder keg when you don't exactly know what your opponent's playing, and if you're wrong you stil get to sack it to ravager or atog.
I owe a lot of game's to this card...

Atog is just the nuts with fling and makes you win on turn 3 with fling and disciple's sometimes even without the need for attacking (if you have fling)

Fling just wins games on it's own sometimes without the need for attacking.

The sideboard is pretty meta dependant...

I'm still thinking about adding epochrasite's, but I like my deck the way it is, so I don't know what to cut..;


Greetzzzz,
Robin.

[DalkonCledwin]

This is a deck I designed after pulling an Arcbound Ravager from 3 packs of Darksteel. I was extatic to pull the Ravager and wanted to try to build a Ravager-affinity deck. This deck is easily made into an Extended Deck, and I may do that with the Extended PTQ season coming up. I know the deck doesn't have any Aether Vials in it, but I do plan on purchasing these as soon as my birthday rolls around (February 6th).

The Deck is as follows:

ARTIFACT LANDS:
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers

OTHER LANDS
4 Glimmervoid

ARTIFACT CREATURES
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Ornithopter

OTHER CREATURES
2 Atog
4 Disciple of the Vault

EQUIPMENT ARTIFACTS
4 Cranial Plating

OTHER SPELLS
2 Fling
4 Shrapnel Blast
4 Thoughtcast

SIDEBOARD
4 Smash
4 Dark Confidant
4 Engineered Plague
3 Tormod's Crypt

I designed it more for me to have fun with (I always wanted an Artifact Deck), and for me to not have to play nothing but burn all the time!

[raharu]

I've recently been playing around with a Affinity list looking something like this (nat the exact list, I lost my flash drive a while back...):

Lands: 18
Vault of Secrets x4
Seat of the Synod x3
Darksteel Citadel x4
Glimmervoid x3
Blinkmoth Nexus x4

Control/ draw: 23
Pithing Needle x3
Chromatic Star x4
Thoughtseize x4
Cabal Therapy x4
Night's Whispers x4
Thoughtcast x4

Creatures: 19
Arcbound Worker x4
Acrbound Ravager x4
Epochrasite x4
Frogmite x4
Myr Enforcer x3

Trading the uber explosive starts for more control (kinda) and a better combo match. Frogmites, Enforcers and Nexuses scoff at Deed (and you have MD Needle), and Ravaging off your board in response to Deed only makes it that much funnier when they have to eat large amounts of damage from them. Untested, but it's really just something to start the conversation in a new direction. Lots of draw because I want draw rivaling Skull Clamp, and chaining mid game draw into draw into draw is nice. All that draw should net you some nice discard too. If I were to make a Sideboard, It would look like this:

Sideboard: 15
Leyline of the Void x4 (with 12x draw including Star, we can mull 'til we find it)
Duress x2 (hating on combo some more)
Uwzema's Jitte x2
7x metagame slots (for fixing other bad MU's... Price of Progress x3? Just a thought)


EDIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!: Super Secret Ninja Sideboard Tech: Urborg Justice x3. It's a fucking SCALEABLE BOARD SWEEP FOR TWO MANA that rewards you for feeding Ravager some creatures.

[DalkonCledwin]

I have been working on this deck for a few days now, with a couple of friends from various locations helping me. One of them is from my meta... one of them is my play testing buddy (though he is being a real ass about it right now), and the others are people I met on myspace. Though a good number of them don't seem to like this deck. Saying it stinks and what not. Then there are people on the MagictheGathering.com Legacy Forum that helped me with the deck.

One of them was a person who so kindly indicated that I may not actually need an Aether Vial to run this deck. So I thought about it, and designed this deck more or less with the lack of an Aether Vial in mind. The deck is designed to run more around consistency than it is around speed. But it is still pretty fast. It has a theoretical victory time of between 5 to 6 rounds, with an occasional victory on turn 4. And by occasional I mean like once every 20 games. I determined these figures mainly by goldfishing.

The only problems I have encountered thus far are that my deck testing buddy seems to have gotten it into his head that he needs to test me with the assumption that every deck is going to have already adapted to my deck... thus he runs Shattering Spree, and Chalice of the Void in his Sideboard, which make it next to impossible for me to win unless I run Stifle in my sideboard when I play him, which means considering I probably won't be playing stifle in my sideboard unless alot of people in my meta start playing Shattering Spree, then I am not getting a valid deck test.

Also I am keeping in mind modifications I can make to the deck so that I can take it to a PTQ during the PTQ season. I am actually hoping on doing fairly well during the PTQ season. But we shall see.

So without further adieu here is the deck:

ARTIFACT LANDS:
4 Darksteel Citadels
4 Great Furnace
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod

OTHER LANDS
4 Glimmervoid

ARTIFACT CREATURES
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Frogmite
4 Ornithopter

OTHER CREATURES
2 Atog
4 Disciple of the Vault - when I go extended I plan on using Somber Hoverguard instead of this

ARTIFACT EQUIPMENT
4 Cranial Plating

OTHER SPELLS
2 Fling - When I go extended I plan to use 2 more Atog instead of these
4 Shrapnel Blast
4 Thoughtcast

SIDEBOARD
4 Negate - Spoiler Warning (http://mtgsalvation.com/morningtide-spoiler.html#2176)
4 Shattering Spree
4 Engineered Plague
3 Tormod's Crypt

I suppose if I did want to put the Aether Vials in, I could take out 1 Frogmite, 1 Ornithopter, and 1 Atog and put 3 Vials into the deck. But honestly right now I don't really see the need...

[Shriekmaw]

There is an affinity thread all ready in the established decks forum. We would be happy to discuss your build there. No need to start another Affinity thread.

[TeenieBopper]

You know Aether Vial increases consistency, right?

[Shriekmaw]

You know Aether Vial increases consistency, right?


Oh, thats why you run it in goblins?

I said it when it was legal in standard, it could be the most powerful card in the format.

If you don't want to run Aether Vial, then I would suggest running: Springleaf Drum.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

If you don't want to run Aether Vial, then I would suggest running: Springleaf Drum.Agreed. It's run in most Extended Affinity builds.

By the way, the Affinity thread is here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4566) and is where discussion should take place.

[DalkonCledwin]

I have been working on this deck for a few days now, with a couple of friends from various locations helping me. One of them is from my meta... one of them is my play testing buddy (though he is being a real ass about it right now), and the others are people I met on myspace. Though a good number of them don't seem to like this deck. Saying it stinks and what not. Then there are people on the MagictheGathering.com Legacy Forum that helped me with the deck.

One of them was a person who so kindly indicated that I may not actually need an Aether Vial to run this deck. So I thought about it, and designed this deck more or less with the lack of an Aether Vial in mind. The deck is designed to run more around consistency than it is around speed. But it is still pretty fast. It has a theoretical victory time of between 5 to 6 rounds, with an occasional victory on turn 4. And by occasional I mean like once every 20 games. I determined these figures mainly by goldfishing.

The only problems I have encountered thus far are that my deck testing buddy seems to have gotten it into his head that he needs to test me with the assumption that every deck is going to have already adapted to my deck... thus he runs Shattering Spree, and Chalice of the Void in his Sideboard, which make it next to impossible for me to win unless I run Stifle in my sideboard when I play him, which means considering I probably won't be playing stifle in my sideboard unless alot of people in my meta start playing Shattering Spree, then I am not getting a valid deck test.

Also I am keeping in mind modifications I can make to the deck so that I can take it to a PTQ during the PTQ season. I am actually hoping on doing fairly well during the PTQ season. But we shall see.

So without further adieu here is the deck:

ARTIFACT LANDS:
4 Darksteel Citadels
4 Great Furnace
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod

OTHER LANDS
4 Glimmervoid

ARTIFACT CREATURES
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Frogmite
4 Ornithopter

OTHER CREATURES
2 Atog
4 Disciple of the Vault - when I go extended I plan on using Somber Hoverguard instead of this

ARTIFACT EQUIPMENT
4 Cranial Plating

OTHER SPELLS
2 Fling - When I go extended I plan to use 2 more Atog instead of these
4 Shrapnel Blast
4 Thoughtcast

SIDEBOARD
4 Negate - Spoiler Warning (http://mtgsalvation.com/morningtide-spoiler.html#2176)
4 Shattering Spree
4 Engineered Plague
3 Tormod's Crypt

I suppose if I did want to put the Aether Vials in, I could take out 1 Frogmite, 1 Ornithopter, and 1 Atog and put 3 Vials into the deck. But honestly right now I don't really see the need...

P.S. some of you guys are exceedingly uptight......

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Eighteen coloured spells seems like too many, as does twenty lands.

What's the Negate in the sideboard for? It seems as though Mana Leak would be better.

[Mental]

LOL, every card in that deck was legal in mirrordin standard at one point.

[TrialByFire]

Agreed. It's run in most Extended Affinity builds.

Dahahaha. They wish they could play it. It's banned in Extended. And for a reason. Aether Vial is one the most game altering cards I can think of. It breaks the rules of the game in so many ways.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Dahahaha. They wish they could play it. It's banned in Extended. And for a reason. Aether Vial is one the most game altering cards I can think of. It breaks the rules of the game in so many ways.I was referring to Drum. It's the most explosive/consistent thing they have, as opposed to Mantle or Mox.

[Shriekmaw]

I

ARTIFACT LANDS:
4 Darksteel Citadels
4 Great Furnace
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod

OTHER LANDS
4 Glimmervoid

ARTIFACT CREATURES
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Frogmite
4 Ornithopter

OTHER CREATURES
2 Atog
4 Disciple of the Vault - when I go extended I plan on using Somber Hoverguard instead of this

ARTIFACT EQUIPMENT
4 Cranial Plating

OTHER SPELLS
2 Fling - When I go extended I plan to use 2 more Atog instead of these
4 Shrapnel Blast
4 Thoughtcast

I


If we are talking about a Legacy build of Affinity, then Aether Vial must be included. If you really don't want to use vial, then springleaf drum is the second best option. I'm pretty excited about the card, but is mainly in the extended version of the deck.

I would cut the land count down to 19 and run at least 2-3 Blinkmoth Nexus, this card is just amazing. I would cutt Glimmervoids in order to add these.

Here is my suggested list going by your model:

4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Great Furnace
4 Darksteel Citadel (Important in Legacy)
2 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Glimmervoid
4 Aether Vial/Springleaf Drum
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Thoughtcast
4 Frogmite
3 Chromatic Star
3 Cranial Plating
3 Ornithopter
3 Myr Enforcer
3 Shrapnel Blast
2 Atog

SB

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Engineered Plague
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Pithing Needle
2 Smother

[DalkonCledwin]

The problem I have found with taking out the glimmervoid's in favor of Blinkmoth Nexus (I realize the Nexus is a great card in affinity), is that the Glimmervoids provide that extra boost of colored mana to cast things like Atog, DotV, Shrapnel Blast, Fling, Thoughtcast, and even cards in the sideboard like Engineered Plague. Without the Glimmering Void's, I have a 4 in 60 chance of drawing any particular colored mana I need at any given time... and I have found through playtesting that that simply is not good enough for me personally.

As for Springleaf Drum... sure, good card... but heavily reliant on having Creatures on the field. If for any reason the creatures on the field are removed from the field... then Springleaf Drum becomes a dead card for all intents and purposes aside from affinity costs (and that assumes you have a frogmite or myr enforcer in your hand).

As for Aether vial... yeah that is a good card... and as I said... I will probably go about getting some and working them into the deck. But as for the moment, I am trying to put the basics of the deck together in the first place, then working on getting the tricks put together.

The Negate is to counter things like Null Rod, Meltdown, and other spells that destroy Artifacts... the only spell it can't stop is Shattering Spree. However the reason I choose Negate and not Mana Leak or any other counterspells is two fold. First, Negate is a hard counter. It stops the spell in its tracks permanently (unless it is countered itself). Second, Negate is splashable. Unlike counterspell which costs :u::u: Negate costs :1::u: making it far more splashable. This means that I can run it easily in a deck that runs other colors, all I would need is a Glimmervoid or a Seat of Synod and one other land on the field and I could effectively cast Negate!

P.S. I am on a budget... Pithing Needle wasn't really the best suggestion for me. I get maybe 40 bucks a month to spend on cards... and most of that goes towards tournament entry fee's and food for those tournaments (to the order of 32 dollars towards Entry fees and food a month) I am usually able to spend around 8 dollars on new cards each month... with the exception of birthdays and christmas which nets me an additional 50 to 100 dollars to spend on cards per event. And usually that goes towards singles for decks... I rarely have the kind of money it would take to buy a playset of Pithing Needles.

[DalkonCledwin]

After talking to some people at my Local Game Shop I have decided to modify the deck list a little bit. Here is an updated deck list:

ARTIFACT LANDS
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers

OTHER LAND
4 Glimmervoid

ARTIFACT CREATURES
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Ornithopter

OTHER CREATURES
2 Atog
4 Disciple of the Vault

ARTIFACTS
4 Cranial Plating
3 Springleaf Drum

OTHER SPELLS
1 Fling
2 Shrapnel Blast
4 Thoughtcast

SIDEBOARD
4 Negate
4 Shattering Spree
4 Engineered Plague
3 Tormod's Crypt

I hope this looks a little bit better. Please remember with advice that the deck is on a tight budget. I really don't have the money to fling around for cards that cost over 10 dollars a pop... I am really sort of pushing it with Ravagers (fortunately I pulled 1, and got 2 in trade, so I only really am going to have to buy 1 of them).

[kabal]

Please remember with advice that the deck is on a tight budget. I really don't have the money to fling around for cards that cost over 10 dollars a pop...

:smile:

[Shriekmaw]

I understand your on a tight budget and maybe pithing needles is out of range, thats fine. I was just suggesting the best cards that I found to work in the deck.

I try to build/tweak decks on the best cards available. I know that it may be out of some people's price range, but thats what trading is all about, right?

Go with your build, evaluate your results and go from there.

Please, give us updates and we will try to guide you as much as possible. One of my main goals is to get more players playing Affinity, b/c I feel its a pretty good deck no matter what other people may think.

[Slayer001]

I run 2 needles Main and 1 in side and it helps alot, but if you are a budget player I understand :wink:

And 2 Glimmervoid is enough put two nexus instead. enforcers is to much, you better take 1 out for another fling. I ahve been testing on the drum also and he does realy great in my build. Without Aether Vial you will be alot slower and your ravagers/DotV/Atog can be countered.

[DalkonCledwin]

I run 2 needles Main and 1 in side and it helps alot, but if you are a budget player I understand :wink:

And 2 Glimmervoid is enough put two nexus instead. enforcers is to much, you better take 1 out for another fling. I ahve been testing on the drum also and he does realy great in my build. Without Aether Vial you will be alot slower and your ravagers/DotV/Atog can be countered.

The problem for me is finding Aether Vial... The only place I could possibly get them from is an online store, and I don't know what the likely hood of that will be for getting them anytime soon. I honestly much rather just run the Sprinleaf Drum for the moment.

[Slayer001]

I run them both, Look at ebay you can get good cards not to expensive there
or trade them with other magic players in your neighbourhood

[DalkonCledwin]

Okay I have updated the deck list quite a bit since last time I posted. I hope it looks better now. I still don't have any Aether Vials and probably won't be getting them for a while yet. But I am considering getting them still. I did however obtain Springleaf Drum to run in the Vials place for the time being. So here is the revised deck list:

ARTIFACT LANDS:
1 x Darksteel Citadel
4 x Great Furnace
4 x Seat of the Synod
4 x Vault of Whispers
...
OTHER LANDS
3 x Blinkmoth Nexus
3 x Glimmervoid
...
ARTIFACT CREATURES
4 x Arcbound Ravager
4 x Arcbound Worker
4 x Frogmite
4 x Myr Enforcer
4 x Ornithopter
...
OTHER CREATURES
2 x Atog
4 x Disciple of the Vault
....
EQUIPMENT ARTIFACTS
4 x Cranial Plating
...
OTHER ARTIFACTS
3 x Springleaf Drum
...
OTHER SPELLS
1 x Fling
3 x Shrapnel Blast
4 x Thoughtcast
...
SIDEBOARD
3 x Shattering Spree
4 x Pyrostatic Pillar
4 x Negate
4 x Tormod's Crypt

P.S. I do listen to advice... it just takes me a while, and I usually have to hear the advice from more than one source before I will take it. In the case of the Nexus I heard it from you and one of my teammates. In the case of the Drum, I heard it from you and from my local meta people. So you see, multiple sources... it takes time for me... I am really stubborn.

[Slayer001]

Don't drop the citadels in this wasteland heavy meta
drop glimmervoids for nexus not the citadels. And 2 Nexus and 2 Glimmervoid are enough

[DalkonCledwin]

Don't drop the citadels in this wasteland heavy meta
drop glimmervoids for nexus not the citadels. And 2 Nexus and 2 Glimmervoid are enough

No, 2 Nexus is not really enough... because you really can't play Nexus to its full potential unless you have a second Nexus on the field, and that is next to impossible unless you have 3+ Nexus in the deck.

As for dropping Glimmervoid for Wasteland, I really don't want to do that, only because I really need the Glimmervoid's as mana fixing, but I will consider dropping down to 2 Glimmervoid's and adding back in a second Darksteel Citadel.

[Slayer001]

You don't need wasteland in your deck, you need artifact lands to sac for ravager/atog.

2 Nexus are enough once you have one in play and a ravager its mostly gg if you are attacking and you have enough artifacts to sack

attack with ravager and blinkmoth. So what you do next is see what he blocks if he can. If he blocks the ravager sac all artifacts to ravager and make sure you tap lands for mana and let that mana float (3 mana and at least 1 red for fling if you have it in hand). ravager will be very big when not stifled to much. Then you sac it to its own and put all its counters on the nexus before dmg is on the stack ! (use 1 mana to make the nexus a creature, else the counters will fizzle) beat with nexus and kill him if that aint enough fling the nexus to your opponents head. Won many games like this

[Shriekmaw]

I don't think anyone is suggesting wasteland in the deck. They are suggesting playing 4 Darksteel Citadel because Wasteland is very popular in the format. I currently run 19 lands which includes 1 glimmervoid and 2 blinkmoth nexus. The rest are artifact lands.

The number of color cards that you can play in the deck without diluting the strategy is anywhere from 8-12. Thats it, if you try to run more, you will find how inconsistent the deck will become over time.

I went back to the traditional build of running 4 disciple, 4 thoughtcast, and 2 fling. I believe this build works the best because I found a lot of times that you really need the draw in the deck and dark confidant simply doesn't cut it.

[raharu]

Lands: 16
Seat of the Synod x4
Vault of Whispers x4
Darksteel Citadel x4
Blinkmoth Nexus x4

Creatures: 24
Ornithopter x4
Arcbound Worker x4
Arcbound Ravager x4
Erayo, Soratomi Ascendant x4
Frogmite x4
Myr Enforcer x4

Spells: 20
Lotus Petal x4
Dark Ritual x4
Thoughtseize x4
Cabal Therapy x4
Thoughtcast x4

Affinity has a wonderfully wierd way of vomiting up it's opening hand on ocassion. I looked at this, figured it could use some acceleration and 4x Erayo, and made the list.

Thoughts?

[technogeek5000]

I was also thinking of a erayo affinity list but i would definately do it differently then you have. But that also means that the deck is not vial affinity anymore (maybe a erayo affinity thread).

4 Erayo
4 ornithopter
4 Archbound ravager
4 Disciple
4 Frogmite
4 myr enforcer
3 Somber hoverguard
4 Thoughtcast
4 Vault of whispers
4 Seat of synod
4 Darksteel citadel
4 Underground sea
4 Cranial plating
4 Tormod's crypt
5 some combination of acceleration, control, or creatures (Chrome, Thoughtsieze, lotus petal, phyrexian walker, or Archbound worker)

The deck is extremely fast through the large amount of 0 cast artifacts. this alsomakes it extremely easier to flip erayo as you cast it and play all the artifacts in your hand with ease. I guess for the 5 blank spots Fow could be added because I already have 11 blue spells. Oh and tormod's crypt is a beast in this deck. The added acceleration is enourmously helpful and it realy neuters alot of decks. Suggestions are welcome.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

I think Erayo Affinity should look like this;

// Coloured Spells
4 - Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
4 - Thoughtcast
4 - Disciple of the Vault
4 - Any mix of Thoughtseize/Cabal Therapy/Atog/Fling/Shrapnel Blast
I think you need at least sixteen coloured spells for Chrome Mox.

// Affinity Stuff
4 - Arcbound Ravager
4 - Arcbound Worker
4 - Cranial Plating
4 - Frogmite
4 - Ornithopter
2 - Springleaf Drum/Tormod's Crypt/Whateve'


// Mana
4 - Chrome Mox
And eighteen lands in any combination with at least sixteen artifact lands and the remainder as Glimmervoids, Blinkmoth Nexus, or what ever.

I haven't tested it at all, but that looks like it should work.

One of the iffyest things about this build is that Chrome Mox requires around sixteen coloured cards and you should generally run only around twelve in affinity.

[raharu]

One of the iffyest things about this build is that Chrome Mox requires around sixteen coloured cards and you should generally run only around twelve in affinity.

Then play Lotus Petal. With 18 lands, you really don't need permanent acceleration. Even with 16 lands, you shouldn't need it. The loss in CA is reason enough not to play Chrome Mox. I think that Erayo lists should be kept 2 colored at most, and adding black into the mix gives you better acceleration in Dark Ritual and better "control" in Thoughtseize, Cabal Therapy, and SB Extirpate. The strength of my list is that you have the ability to get Erayo flipped pretty fast, and you can eat your opponent's hand alive with the discard (Therapy is pretty vicious). The loss of Disciple of the Vault is regretable, but I could see Arcbound Worker being replaced by it. Also, why play Springleaf Drum?

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Then play Lotus Petal. With 18 lands, you really don't need permanent acceleration.Erayo cost two, and won't always flip the turn you play it. I would assume that you would need mana to stick around in case of the slow game.
The loss in CA is reason enough not to play Chrome Mox.You spend one card when Mox comes into play, and it sticks around. With Lotus Petal, you spend one card for one mana that doesn't stay. They seem to be the same in terms of card advantage.
I think that Erayo lists should be kept 2 colored at most, and adding black into the mix gives you better acceleration in Dark Ritual and better "control" in Thoughtseize, Cabal Therapy, and SB Extirpate. You only have twelve to sixteen slots for coloured spells, with Erayo and Thoughtcast taking up eight, leaving you with only four to eight variable slots. I feel as though Disciple of the Vault is too powerful to overlook. That leaves no space if you're running Petal, and four slots if you run Mox. Blue brings Somber Hoverguard as an additional evasive beater that helps pay for Erayo on a Mox. Black brings Therapy, Thoughtsieze, and Duress for disruption. Dark Ritual isn't very good as your last coloured cards. The boost is only good early game, and it's mostly superfluous. It's also a dead draw late game.
The strength of my list is that you have the ability to get Erayo flipped pretty fast, and you can eat your opponent's hand alive with the discard (Therapy is pretty vicious).A flipped Erayo should parry the opponent enough to allow you to win in a timely fashion without opposition.
Also, why play Springleaf Drum?Some people like it for its ability to turn creatures in to hasty birds. Can allow for some absurd plays, especially when Ornithopter is involved.

[Slayer001]

Hmm I like this erayo build :smile:

Disciple is to good to drop, he's not banned for nothing in extended. He is a win condition. On the chrome mox vs petal, I would choose the mox also. But have to test both to see for sure but I think mox is the better one.

[drawer]

It's funny, I wanted to convert my affinity build to Erayo so I came on here hoping to sift through this thread and find some lists to start from, lo and behold it was the most recent line of discussion.

Disciple is good, but with only 4 real sac outlets now that we're dropping Atog I can see the slot being used for other things. If we do drop Disciple we could explore other colors.

I'm thinking of white for the upcoming tournament. This is the build I'm proposing:

4 Ancient Den
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Darksteel Citadel
3 Blinkmoth Nexus
3 Adarkar Wastes/Tundra

4 Lotus Petal(I prefer this because cards seem more important than a long-term boost.)
3 Springleaf Drum
4 Thoughtcast
4 Cranial Plating
4 Swords to Plowshares

4 Ornithopter
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Erayo
4 Frogmite
3 Somber Hoverguard

SB
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Pithing Needle
4 Disenchant
4 Meddling Mage

I'm also toying with the idea of replacing Hoverguards with Rule of Law for a lock, but that seems too situational.

Kevin

[raharu]

Rule of Law = white Arcane Lab. You really don't need removal, because giant Ravager + they can't play spells really should be enough to seal up a win. Also, where's your Erayo? I can't really see Somber Hovergaurd doing anything that an Ornithopter couldn't do, and honestly, there are lots of things that you could put into that slot. What's with the non-artifact-lands? Run Glimmervoid. It's about 90 times better than your dual in most cases.

[Slayer001]

The first thing you have to do is cut the duals for glimmervoids like mentioned before. And wtf is Somber Hoverguard doing there in the first place, ornithopter is better then it.

Why White ? The black one is alot better. You have disciple and you can attach cranial plating at instant speed if you have to black mana. And instead of Medling mage in the board, use engineered plague against goblins
and you can use thoughtseize in the board instead of disenchant. I admit that artifact removal will be a problem if they play null rod or aura of silence. but with thoughtseize or duress you need to take those things out with them. You can even run smother in black against goyfs instead of StP.

Instead of law you better run Arcan Laboratory then, because you don't have to go white then

But that's my opinion

[drawer]

Yeah the deck didn't do too well.

There's no reason to run Glimmervoid in a 2-color affinity deck, duals at least give you the chance of coming back from a blown Deed.

Black is probably much better, although I'd run Cabal Therapy over Thoughtsieze or Duress especially with Erayo in the deck.

Somber Hoverguard was fine, it could have been Enforcer but I value flying over the extra power.

Overall I think the R/B aggressive build with Bobs and Vials is the best.

[Slayer001]

yea therapy is fine also offcoarse, how could I forget that, I ran that in SB of my build

[Shriekmaw]

I've played for a long time with Vial in Affinity, but recently I have completely cut it for the raw power of Springleaf Drum. I've posted my most recent build of the deck down below.

4 Darksteel Citade
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Tree of Tales
4 Vault of Whispers
2 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Thoughtcast
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Ornithopter
3 Cranial Plating
3 Tarmogoyf
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Chromatic Star

SB

1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Smother
2 Krosan Grip
3 Pithing Needle
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Chalice of the Void

[Pltnmngl]

So is it established that Vial is better than Drum as the main engine? Also, has anybody tested Epochrasite?

[Shriekmaw]

So is it established that Vial is better than Drum as the main engine? Also, has anybody tested Epochrasite?


The debate for Vial Against Springleaf Drum is very close in my book. Drum offers you more explosive power earlier in the game as it fixes color mana and allows you to instant equip plate a lot easier.

Aether Vial is still very nice because it allows for a lot of combo tricks with modular counters or disciple triggers.

After playing with Vial for a very long time, I just found Springleaf Drum improve the decks consistency and reliability.

Epochrasite, isn't worth a slot in the deck, because you have to have vial at 2 for it to become useful. Suspending the card doesn't really help you out a lot since you have to wait 3 additional turns.

The only creature I recently added to the deck is Tarmogoyf because he is just that darn good.

[Pltnmngl]

The debate for Vial Against Springleaf Drum is very close in my book. Drum offers you more explosive power earlier in the game as it fixes color mana and allows you to instant equip plate a lot easier.

Aether Vial is still very nice because it allows for a lot of combo tricks with modular counters or disciple triggers.

After playing with Vial for a very long time, I just found Springleaf Drum improve the decks consistency and reliability.

Epochrasite, isn't worth a slot in the deck, because you have to have vial at 2 for it to become useful. Suspending the card doesn't really help you out a lot since you have to wait 3 additional turns.

The only creature I recently added to the deck is Tarmogoyf because he is just that darn good.

I must concur. It's amazing how much the Legacy and Extended builds are alike. Or maybe Tarmo is just that broken. lol...

[MasterBlaster]

I did some goldfishing with springleaf drum and aether vial, and I found that the vial increased the speed of the deck a noticable amount more than the drum as you didn't need to tap potential attackers to utilize the vial.

[Curby]

I did some goldfishing with springleaf drum and aether vial, and I found that the vial increased the speed of the deck a noticable amount more than the drum as you didn't need to tap potential attackers to utilize the vial.

Of course, the problem with goldfishing is that every creature is a potential attacker. When the opponent has creatures in play and forces you to more carefully evaluate the board, there's a chance that those creatures would be better used as Birds of Paradise. =)

[Slayer001]

On the case of springleaf and drum, they are very close to eachother, I am now runninga 2/2 split because I don't know wich of the two helps me better, sometimes drum helps better, sometimes you wish the drum was a vial

[Pltnmngl]

So basically it's the Mantle/Vial argument all over again? One being more explosive while the other one is more consistent? Great...

So how does everybody feel about Tarmogoyf in the deck?

[Shriekmaw]

So basically it's the Mantle/Vial argument all over again? One being more explosive while the other one is more consistent? Great...

So how does everybody feel about Tarmogoyf in the deck?


Springleaf Drum is strictly better than Mantle. I believe in Legacy, you have to gear your deck faster, since its very easily hated out after board. Win as fast as possible and I believe Drum is just better in that regards.

A lot of times swinging with only an Arcbound Worker isn't great at all. I rather be tapping him for mana and having complete board control.

As for Tarmogoyf, he is an absolute must in the deck since every other deck it seems in the format runs him. Plus, Cranial Plating makes him even better.

[umbowta]

Hey guys, I don't normally play affinity but I saw Bramblewood Paragon and I wondered howthey might be really fun with Arcbound critters and Plating. Anybody test it yet?

[Media314r8]

As for Tarmogoyf, he is an absolute must in the deck since every other deck it seems in the format runs him. better.

Worst - argument - EVER! Goyf is good in affinity since it runs vial, can run green art lands, and springleaf drum. Cranial plating also allows goyf to kill other goyf, and often trade for two defending goyfs. Goyf also gives affinity a way to fight through artifact hate, and gives it a viable plan B. Such are the reasons why goyf is good in affinity. (being able to sac art/lands to grow goyf +2/+2 and ravager +1/+1 at instant speed is a fine too.

Goyf does not belong in combos decks and arguably doesn't belong in control decks, (though he is in some landstill builds despite the dys-synergy with deed?!?!) especially control decks like Karach with Moat. In this case, every other deck running goyf is precisely why Karach DOESN'T. Get back to fapping over your several playsets of goyfs, just keep yur cum off my foil ones. (I love me some goyf too, but he doesn't just OMG AUTO 4MD IN EVERY DECK!)

[Iranon]

Well, I have seen Goyf in Belcher... although it did make me want to claw my eyes out. I absolutely hate it in Affinity as well; who cares if Goyf is slightly bigger than Myr Enforcer when you can play the latter at turn 2 as well, without paying mana, and can often grow him as big as he needs to be?

[Slayer001]

Goyf is almost splashed in every deck with aggro in their name, I haven't tested him out in affinity yet but I will test him with springleaf drum he can be very good. Vial is an option also.

[Eldariel]

The problem with Goyf is, he isn't an artifact so you have to be careful not to go under the limit of the 40 artifacts necessary to keep Affinity running.

[Pltnmngl]

Yeah...the extended affinity players got over the Tarmo hype a long time ago. Hardy any builds that top'd PTQ's ran Tarmo. Hoverguard was better. However, I don't think you can get much better than Tarmo in Legacy.

On another issue, is running red even worth it anymore in Legacy? It doesn't seem that way to me...

[kicks_422]

Yes. Atog is a house. With all the removal aimed at Ravagers and Disciples, Atog gets really big and swoops in for the kill much more than you'd expect.

[MasterBlaster]

On another issue, is running red even worth it anymore in Legacy? It doesn't seem that way to me...

For me Atog makes red worth it. I run him as a 2-of in my deck as the only red card and he's a great addition to Affinity(especially when combined with Berserk:wink:).

[Pltnmngl]

What about using fling? Is that any good now?

[Rood]

What about using fling? Is that any good now?

A teammate of mine plays Vial Affinity with Flings and he does fairly well with it, so yes

[Pltnmngl]

How do you guys feel about Lotus Petal?

[kabal]

How do you guys feel about Lotus Petal?

I don't think it has a place in Affinity. You are better off play Springleaf Drum. I use to run 4 Vial and 3 Star, but once Drum was spoiled I started testing 4 Drum and 3 Vial. Works great, but I would recommond that you play 4 Ornithopters if you go w/ that configuration.

[Media314r8]

Running enforcer over goyf seems like a decision resulting from lack of goyfs rather than what fits best in the deck. My teammate has been playing affinity for three years and we've settled on a version with 4 goyf, 4 epocricite, 4 vial, and 4 bob (avg CMC in the deck is 1.0!) Enforcers and Frogmite may help your goldfish time alot, but they are just dead weight/ravager fodder after your opponent lays a goyf. (not to say they cant team block goyf, but affinity wants to be attacking.) You cannot always count on having plating, thus running grizzly bears (be they free bears) really only improves your combo MU, and destroys your chances against any deck running goyf. Enforcer would only be run in a meta where deed is highly prevalent, which is the reason we see so many enforcers, frogs, and hoverguards in extd, as deed is much more common so the high CMCs make up for their inferior status as creatures. Atog seems strictly worse than shrapnel blast or fling in affinity unless you're goldfishing. Why deed your own board to one removal spell? (that or sit around with a 1/2 dork...) Everyone ITT should get out of their budget nest and proxy up a decklist with goyfs (and possibly bob) so theycan actually see his merits in affinity. Plying against compotent opponents rather than on MWS with random jank also helps playtesting results.

EDIT: if you play epocricite and goyf, and your opponent knows it, you will often see your opponent holding back an attack if you have an untapped vial at 2 and card/cards in hand.

[Pltnmngl]

Running enforcer over goyf seems like a decision resulting from lack of goyfs rather than what fits best in the deck. My teammate has been playing affinity for three years and we've settled on a version with 4 goyf, 4 epocricite, 4 vial, and 4 bob (avg CMC in the deck is 1.0!) Enforcers and Frogmite may help your goldfish time alot, but they are just dead weight/ravager fodder after your opponent lays a goyf. (not to say they cant team block goyf, but affinity wants to be attacking.) You cannot always count on having plating, thus running grizzly bears (be they free bears) really only improves your combo MU, and destroys your chances against any deck running goyf. Enforcer would only be run in a meta where deed is highly prevalent, which is the reason we see so many enforcers, frogs, and hoverguards in extd, as deed is much more common so the high CMCs make up for their inferior status as creatures. Atog seems strictly worse than shrapnel blast or fling in affinity unless you're goldfishing. Why deed your own board to one removal spell? (that or sit around with a 1/2 dork...) Everyone ITT should get out of their budget nest and proxy up a decklist with goyfs (and possibly bob) so theycan actually see his merits in affinity. Plying against compotent opponents rather than on MWS with random jank also helps playtesting results.

EDIT: if you play epocricite and goyf, and your opponent knows it, you will often see your opponent holding back an attack if you have an untapped vial at 2 and card/cards in hand.

If you don't mind, can I see a list to see what you're talking about?

[Media314r8]

If you don't mind, can I see a list to see what you're talking about?

// Lands
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
4 [MR] Vault of Whispers
4 [MR] Tree of Tales
3 [MR] Seat of the Synod
3 [MR] Glimmervoid
4 [DS] Darksteel Citadel

// Creatures
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [MR] Disciple of the Vault
4 [MR] Ornithopter
4 [FUT] Epochrasite
3 [DS] Arcbound Worker
4 [DS] Arcbound Ravager
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant

// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [10E] Chromatic Star
4 [FD] Cranial Plating

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [FNM] Cabal Therapy
SB: 4 [PLC] Seal of Primordium
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 4 [US] Planar Void

Rules Note: You control planar void, so you stack the triggers so that your modular guys still transfer counters, epocricite still re-suspends, and disciple still casues life loss, thus it is my grave-hate of choice. (that and it can be replayed for B unlike leyline.)

Ruins is in the mix to recurr killed/countered ravagers, jittes, and platings.

Since my buddy plays the deck, (I designed) he prefers the seals to krosan grip, as he has lost to random null rods from out of boards before, and while yes, you can float mana in response, how often does an affinity deck keep lands untapped for instants? Thus, he plays seal as he can set it early to deal with any Cb/Null Rods/Serenity(s) that spring up without fear of it getting countered (stifle isn't much of a problem save vs dreadstill)

Avg CMC= 0.983 = 59 total CMC / 60 cards.

EDIT: Drum was supposed to be Chrom star, sorry all this talk of drum.

[Pltnmngl]

So what do you set the chalice to? 0? (Sorry if that seems like a noob question. I don't see them being useful at any setting besides 0)

[Media314r8]

0. chalcie at zero mostly shuts down the Iggy/Dimin Returns plan to tendrils for lethal early on, and the TES/Iggy piolet will often be forced to either 1) wish for spree to kill it or 2) play their artifact mana into the chalice, go low-storm count EtW out of hand for 10ish goblins turn 2-3, which you can probably race in the air if you have thopter. (considering Xplosives in the board, as it doesnt kill art LANDS, and can be recurred with Ruins. The whole deck has CMC 2 or 1, but it could be beneficial to wipe away the whole board of goyfs/ravagers and maintaining priority, sac all your CMC 2s to ravager to worker or thoper... IDK. I will recommend that my buddy test EE.

tl;dr: yes. 0.

[Shriekmaw]

// Lands
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
4 [MR] Vault of Whispers
4 [MR] Tree of Tales
3 [MR] Seat of the Synod
3 [MR] Glimmervoid
4 [DS] Darksteel Citadel

// Creatures
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [MR] Disciple of the Vault
4 [MR] Ornithopter
4 [FUT] Epochrasite
3 [DS] Arcbound Worker
4 [DS] Arcbound Ravager
4 [RAV] Dark Confidaent

// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [LRW] Springleaf Drum
4 [FD] Cranial Plating

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [FNM] Cabal Therapy
SB: 4 [PLC] Seal of Primordium
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 4 [US] Planar Void




I'm sorry to rip this list apart, but it is so bad its not even funny.

Lets start with the land. I do believe 19 land is the correct number to run, but running academy ruins. Are you serious? Also the Glimmervoids should be at most 2 in the deck, since its not artifact lands. I would rather run 1 glimmervoid and 2 blinkmoth nexus.

The creatures should not include Epochrasite at all. Also, 4 workers are a must in this deck, an absolute must. The rest of the creatures seem fine.

The non-creatures should not include Umezawa's Jitte and Springleaf Drum. If you want to run vial than run it, you can't run both vial and drum, doesn't provide the deck with a lot of firepower. I've play tested jitte, but is so mana intensive and anti-synergistic with the "Affinity" mechanic.

Please do more playtested and please refer to my list above. I've done more playtesting with this deck than any Legacy player I have met. Please don't dismiss my results and lists that I post.

[frogboy]

purely from extended experience, I'd guess that eighteen lands is fine if you have no threes.

also, Atog is pretty awesome when you're brawling against some guy with Tarmogoyf, although it'd be loose if they Plowed you.

[Pltnmngl]

I'm sorry to rip this list apart, but it is so bad its not even funny.

Lets start with the land. I do believe 19 land is the correct number to run, but running academy ruins. Are you serious? Also the Glimmervoids should be at most 2 in the deck, since its not artifact lands. I would rather run 1 glimmervoid and 2 blinkmoth nexus.

The creatures should not include Epochrasite at all. Also, 4 workers are a must in this deck, an absolute must. The rest of the creatures seem fine.

The non-creatures should not include Umezawa's Jitte and Springleaf Drum. If you want to run vial than run it, you can't run both vial and drum, doesn't provide the deck with a lot of firepower. I've play tested jitte, but is so mana intensive and anti-synergistic with the "Affinity" mechanic.

Please do more playtested and please refer to my list above. I've done more playtesting with this deck than any Legacy player I have met. Please don't dismiss my results and lists that I post.

Can I see your current list?

[Media314r8]

Please do more playtested and please refer to my list above. I've done more playtesting with this deck than any Legacy player I have met. Please don't dismiss my results and lists that I post.

Casting bob/goyf turn 2 is essential to this build, as is color fixing for the SB and ruins (thus the inclusion of drum, which is actually supposed to be star, my bad.), and the deck has been tested. It four-way split a 25+ player tournament in Columbus and won second place at a smaller 15ish tournament in Akron. It also has never had anything but a positive record. It consistently beats my UB Tog control deck (which is also tournament tested), and has about a 60/45 pre/post board record vs goblins, which is pretty damn respectable for affinity. It has beat gro decks at all the tournaments he played it at, and my buddy, the pilot, still makes play mistakes.

I am not dismissing your list nor am I ignoring your results, but I was asked to provide a list for this build of affinity. I must apologize, any innovation or radical changes are irrelevant, as your deck is obviously superior. I must ask the mods to close this thread, as clearly you are the master of affinity, and any lists that are not carbon copies of your, despite tournament proven results, are wrong.

Sorry for the cynicism, but we sourcers don't post here to praise you for having the perfect affinity build, we are here to seek advice on building and innovating decks for the legacy environment. It is arrogant and close-minded to immediately dismiss anything that doesn't resemble traditional affinity. (I don't see anyone running hoverguards or Broodstar anymore, and those were affinity benchmarks back in Mirroden.)

tl;dr- have an open mind. Make constructive comments. I don't mind criticism, but dismissive attitudes don't belong here.

[Pltnmngl]

The only things I notice about Media's build is that it almost depends on the opponent to make Tarmo fat, which is something I personally wouldn't want to count on but accept. I'm also questioning that Academy Ruins because I can't see having the mana to use it until "late game." Admittedly, the lack of Nexi scares me, too.

Initially, I counted out Bob as a viable piece for affinity, but I've been seeing more and more successful builds run him. Thanks to the inclusion of Tarmo and Epochrasite, he's even more viable.

We must all remember that affinity is a metagame deck if nothing else. As bad as it sounds, we have to "keep up with the Jones'" and abuse our ability to splash any color to beat any metagame, no matter how extreme.

On another note, has anyone messed with Dreadnought? lol?

[Media314r8]

In my build, ravager can make goyf a 3/4 without an opponent's help. Artifact, land, and creature. I hear instants are played by the majority of decks in legacy though, and decks that don't run instants generally run sorcerys. He's usually a 2/3 early game, 4/5midgame, and 5/6 'late' game if the game runs past turn 6. Being able to grow him instant-speed allows for play mistakes on behalf of your opponent.

[frogboy]

I guess I'm sort of confused why you'd settle for Tarmogoyf on turn two instead of some sort of broken draw involving having like six permanents in play.

[Media314r8]

when the only three aggressive creatures in that board are two grizzly bears and a durkwood boars (and you're hellbent), your opponent is resolving a goyf next turn, then yes. I'll 'settle' for a turn two goyf/bob that will draw me into gas or go the distance rather than swing for 2 or 4 and then be outclassed. (often at instant speed)

for those of you who still don't see the advantage of one CA engine/eventual 4/5 or 5/6 on turn two is better than two 2/2s and a 4/4 on turn two, let me set up a little analogy that explains why we dont see savannah lions in the meta anymore.
Player A: plains, Savannah lions, go
Player B: citadel, vial, go
Player A: plains, two more lions, swing for 2
Player B (18): vault, bob, go
Player A: plains, lions, swords bob, swing for 6, lions, go
Player B: (14) tree, ravager, worker, go
Player A: swing with 4 lions (B vials in epocricite/goyf, blocks on three lions, damage on sack worker to ravager, three lions die, 3/4 goyf-or- 4/4 epo and 3/3 ravager live)
Player B: (12) swing 7, jitte, go
Player A: (scoops)

Vanilla dorks are simply outclassed too quickly now that goyf is a staple in most all decks running green and other decks splashing green. They are great for early game beats, but the board becomes stalled very quickly, and you cannot count on sticking a disciple for reach every game. I'd rather be drawing more bombs like goyf, jitte, bob, (and plating) than vanilla 2/2 and 4/4s throughout the course of the game.

[Xurcks]

@Media314r8 : But if we're going the way of Goyf,Confidant and the like,why not just pick up a The Rock like deck over affinity?If affinity loses it's explosiveness and the power of dropping it's whole hand in the first couple turns , then I really think there's no reason to pick it up over another deck that can use these cards better, mainly UGB thresh , in this case.

[mercenarybdu]

The deck is here for just the starter like U/G Madness that is so easy to use that even I couldn't had said it better.

But then again both have lost a lot of power since Goyf came about and started wrecking havoc on the format with it's hidiousiness.

Affinity will last as long as there are starters to come along and pick up a low costing deck for a the heck of things. But until then Goyf is here to stay and leave the designers of the decks to put in things to deal with it.

[Media314r8]

@Media314r8 : But if we're going the way of Goyf,Confidant and the like,why not just pick up a The Rock like deck over affinity?If affinity loses it's explosiveness and the power of dropping it's whole hand in the first couple turns , then I really think there's no reason to pick it up over another deck that can use these cards better, mainly UGB thresh , in this case.

Vial, Ravager, Disciple, plating,and Jitte. Goyf/Bob/Vial Finity plays a much faster game than Rock decks, and the ability to win with disciple (or double) out of nowhere helps give the deck reach and a clock against slower combo.

[The Marco]

Hey I got a question for Nick...I'm playing almost the exact same list as you, and I've been testing for a while all sort of things and like you came up to the conclusion that this is the best list (most explosive and most consistent) for affinity...only difference is I play Somber instead of he Goyf. I just feel that without the vial we don't need to play as many 2cc creatures, Somber is often a 1cc creature with evasion (to me that is the most important thing) that dodges counter/top (minor benefit). I see the power of Goyf in any deck but, my personnal preference is to have a cheap flying creature with decent power instead of another powerful ground threat in affinity.

I'm wondering how Chalice has been for you out of the side and also against what matchups do you bring it in (just against combo???). I'm currently playing Thorn instead of the Chalice as in my meta there is a lot more control and little combo...I'm still unsure about Thorn...Do you have any suggestion??

Thanks

[Shriekmaw]

Hey I got a question for Nick...I'm playing almost the exact same list as you, and I've been testing for a while all sort of things and like you came up to the conclusion that this is the best list (most explosive and most consistent) for affinity...only difference is I play Somber instead of he Goyf. I just feel that without the vial we don't need to play as many 2cc creatures, Somber is often a 1cc creature with evasion (to me that is the most important thing) that dodges counter/top (minor benefit). I see the power of Goyf in any deck but, my personnal preference is to have a cheap flying creature with decent power instead of another powerful ground threat in affinity.

I'm wondering how Chalice has been for you out of the side and also against what matchups do you bring it in (just against combo???). I'm currently playing Thorn instead of the Chalice as in my meta there is a lot more control and little combo...I'm still unsure about Thorn...Do you have any suggestion??

Thanks


I'll first start with my current board and your questions. I mainly run Chalice and Thearpy in my board because of combo. If you don't expect combo in your metagame, I would not run them. Also, I only run Affinity in big events since thats where it shines the most.

I'm not a big fan of Thorn, just because you play a lot of non-artifact creatures that help with the speed of the deck. You play Cranial Plating, Aether Vial/Drum, Chromatic Star, Tormod's Crypt/Pithing Needle, and Thoughtcast.

I do like Thorn a little better if you play Aether Vial instead of Drum because it doesn't hinder the speed as much. Let me know your thoughts about Thorn.

I looked at a lot of lists in both Legacy and Extended, with a lot of people opting for Hoverguard over Goyf. I like that Hoverguard is a flier, but is very killable and I believe the trade off with Goyf is well worth it. I would take the loss of evasion with a creature thats almost a 4/5 when it comes into play and with Vial, you can trick your opponent a lot with it.

I'm not trying to say that my build is the only acceptable one, but the results that I put up with the deck have been very good which is why I stand by it.

Current Sideboard:


2 Krosan Grip
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Engineered Plague
4 Chalice of the Void

I main deck 2 Pithing Needles which is why they are excluded from the board. I'm also always making small chances to it, depending on what I will think will show up to the tournament.

[Pltnmngl]

After fiddling around with it, I really like media's deck. It's so cool. The mirror match is a little iffy, but I can adjust. I'd definitely bring that to a tourney.

On another previously mentioned note, has anybody messed with Dreadnought?

[The Marco]

Hey Nick, thanks for your input...
I'm wondering what you would side instead of Thorn against control decks...I already pack Therapy but I feel I need something more. Like several previous lists I use to play Sphere..but I just feel Thornn is a little better now.
Thanks!

ps: I still like Somber over Goyf in the deck (I've done a good amount of testing with both...and I like Somber a little better, only slightly though :wink: )

[puddn]

i remember that i wasn't agree with nickrit2000 in the previous messages (maybe about goyf and confident in affinity), but i played affinity a lot and i had the same evolution than him: i started with a classic version then i ran out the enforcer and thoughcast for goyf and confident (cf previous posts). Now i join him about drum in place of vial and running out confident to run in enforcer. So +1 for everything he said about this new version


On another previously mentioned note, has anybody messed with Dreadnought?
Play dreadnought invole play stifle x4 what is not very good because you have better cards to play maindeck than stifle

My 2 french euros :p

[Pltnmngl]

Play dreadnought invole play stifle x4 what is not very good because you have better cards to play maindeck than stifle

I figured. Oh well...

[memnarch]

So reality check. I have a basic affinity deck but I just intend on playing it with friends. In other words I don't think it deserves my Goyfs when its even being called into question whether they are the best choice. This is a great deck but not my deck of choice to enter tournaments with. So my question is what is a good budget list now days? Im thinking Somber , Thoughtcast, springleaf drum, enforcer and frogmite. Has anyone tested glimpse of nature?

[nastynate]

So reality check. I have a basic affinity deck but I just intend on playing it with friends. In other words I don't think it deserves my Goyfs when its even being called into question whether they are the best choice. This is a great deck but not my deck of choice to enter tournaments with. So my question is what is a good budget list now days? Im thinking Somber , Thoughtcast, springleaf drum, enforcer and frogmite.

Without green (goyf and berserk) all affinity lists are budget friendly.


Has anyone tested glimpse of nature?

Glimpse of nature is trash without skullclamp; it was questionable even when clamp was legal. Don't bother.

[kabal]

Without green (goyf and berserk) all affinity lists are budget friendly.



Glimpse of nature is trash without skullclamp; it was questionable even when clamp was legal. Don't bother.

Really?? Glimpse of Nature (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champions_of_Kamigawa) wasn't even around when skullclamp was legal in the following formats: Block, Standard or Extended. Skullclamp got banned in Block and Standard on this date (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dci/announce/dci20040601a) and here for Extended (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dci/announce/dci20040901a). But then again, maybe Type 1 or 1.5 was trying the card combination out.

[nastynate]

Really?? Glimpse of Nature (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champions_of_Kamigawa) wasn't even around when skullclamp was legal in the following formats: Block, Standard or Extended. Skullclamp got banned in Block and Standard on this date (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dci/announce/dci20040601a) and here for Extended (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dci/announce/dci20040901a). But then again, maybe Type 1 or 1.5 was trying the card combination out.

Yeah it was run in kobold-clamp, which never really went anywhere.

Edit: Was that ever tried in Legacy? I know Vintage gave it a whirl, but I might be mistaken about Legacy trying it too.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Im thinking Somber , Thoughtcast, springleaf drum, enforcer and frogmite.That is a basic Drum Affinity list. Almost all Affinity lists have Ravager, Thoughtcast, Fromite, Arcbound Worker, Cranial Plaiting, Disciple, Vial/Drum, and Ornithopter.

Edit: Was that ever tried in Legacy? I know Vintage gave it a whirl, but I might be mistaken about Legacy trying it too.This (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6087) is the closest on these boards.

[Pltnmngl]

Is Beserk worth buying just for affinity? I plan on using Tarmo's for my build, but should I also invest in beserks?

[Media314r8]

Berserk opens you up to even more two-for ones, and with goyf invading the format, (i suppose his conquest in now complete, he's been in goblins and affinity) removal for goofy is even more common, so I'd definatly test it before shelling out the $200 for a playset. If you expect a lot of Ug thresh without splashes, it seems like the best ever if they block a goyf with theirs and you can resolve berserk on yours.... well 'cept for the whole sac at end of combat...

[memnarch]

Fling is still only 2cc and I kinda like the direct damage over Beserk. Over the years playing magic I have found that direct damage gets around creature stalls and can be very important. Like coming up against moat or maze of ith. not to mention flings goes for like 50 cents. As a finisher I don't really mind if it costs 1cc more because there should be mana open by then.

[Pltnmngl]

Berserk opens you up to even more two-for ones, and with goyf invading the format, (i suppose his conquest in now complete, he's been in goblins and affinity) removal for goofy is even more common, so I'd definatly test it before shelling out the $200 for a playset. If you expect a lot of Ug thresh without splashes, it seems like the best ever if they block a goyf with theirs and you can resolve berserk on yours.... well 'cept for the whole sac at end of combat...

Yeah... I don't see it being worth it.

How's Academy Ruins working for you? It really sticks out, but I can understand having it.

[Nihil Credo]

Or you can use Fling. The manabase may be a problem, though - Media, is Academy Ruins critical to the deck? It's your only reason for running blue.

[Shriekmaw]

Is Beserk worth buying just for affinity? I plan on using Tarmo's for my build, but should I also invest in beserks?


I use to play the berserk version before tarmogoyfs resist. I feel that now Berserk and Fling just isn't worth playing if your running the "Goyfs".

The main reason I decided to cut the Berserk and Flings, is because I'm running 12 color cards (4 thoughtcast, 4 disciple, 4 goyf). I fefel by playing anymore than those you take too much away from the synergy of the deck and makes it also less consistent.

If you don't want to run Goyf and having Atog and Berserk/Fling is a good idea, but I feel like Goyf is just hands down better in the deck.

[kabal]

The main reason I decided to cut the Berserk and Flings, is because I'm running 12 color cards (4 thoughtcast, 4 disciple, 4 goyf).

What does your build look like?

[Shriekmaw]

What does your build look like?

This is my most recent list. I've been experimenting with Aether Vial vs Springleaf Drum. I think I prefer the drum, but its a toss up right now on which one is actually better.

Affinity

4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Tree of Tales
4 Seat of the Synod
3 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Aether Vial/Springleaf Drum
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Thoughtcast
4 Ornithopter
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Chromatic Star
3 Cranial Plating
2 Pithing Needle

SB

2 Krosan Grip
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Tormod’s Crypt
3 Engineered Plague
4 Chalice of the Void

[kabal]

This is my most recent list. I've been experimenting with Aether Vial vs Springleaf Drum. I think I prefer the drum, but its a toss up right now on which one is actually better.


I noticed that you are still running Chromatic Star. Have you given any thought to dropping it and running both Vial and Drum?

[Media314r8]

Vial and drum is an obscene amount of mana 'cheating,' but drum doesnt cantrip away like star does, so I think star is the correct choice. Cantripping ravager re-enforce for :1: is a bonus.

[Media314r8]

This is my most recent list. I've been experimenting with Aether Vial vs Springleaf Drum. I think I prefer the drum, but its a toss up right now on which one is actually better.

Playtest vs aggro-control. Vial is one of the most powerful cards in legacy, and if it resolves, your opponents countermagic is only hitting your equipment from there on out (or topdecked disciples) drum is superior in traditional affinity, as it allows for more explosive starts, but vialing in bob wins a lot of games. Vial + Epocrocite is beyond sexy.

[romain7]

What is the best answer for a needle against ravager?

[Getsickanddie]

What is the best answer for a needle against ravager?

I've never found needle on Ravager to be game breaking on its own. It can be annoying, but I generally just run them over with other threats. If you are running the green splash you should have grip in the board. In r/b builds I've seen shattering spree as an alternative to grip.

[puddn]

ancient grudge

[Thehunter820]

What is the best answer for a needle against ravager?

Here I agree with getsickanddie, there are other win cons in most cases

[romain7]

THank you, all. Has anyone really tested lotus petal? It wasn't really talked about in depth. I was just wondering if it improved the explosiveness of the deck significantly for those trying it out. Chromatic star could easily be taken out for that, as chromatic star costs one to play and one for the ability, while petal is free. Either can be used as ravager food, but the star nets you a card when it goes to the grave.

[TheKingslayer]

How do you deal with chalice of the void mostly at one and two?

[kicks_422]

Drop Frogmites and Enforcers and keep bashing.

[Slayer001]

If you are running the green version look above and play krosan grips else play shattering spree or ancient grudge or just bash them with all the rest ;)

[puddn]

good question!
i think krosian grip is better because it deals with enchantments like confinement, aluren, propaganda, etc. and some artifacts like jitte, vial (thx split second)

[TheKingslayer]

Spree is better, because it costs less to play, it can grab more than one chalice, it is red and not green, and I hate tarmogoyf.

[TheKingslayer]

Another question...

Nobody ever answered the one about lotus petal vs. chromatic star. The petal seems like it would add the explosiveness that it needs in legacy. The star cantrips for one, but is it worth it? Both work to fix mana problems and both can be ravager food later in the game.

lotus petal >> chromatic star?

[Slayer001]

for me is star >>>> petal, for speed you have vial/springleaf drum
much better options then lotus petal imo.

[Pltnmngl]

Star is better than Petal. It's not worth the slight tempo gain.

[TheKingslayer]

Thanks. It is very tempting to be able to drop all of those frogmites and then some on turn one though.

[Clark Kant]

Should this deck be playing 4 Sigg, River Cutthroat.

We had to cut Confidant due to dyssnergy with the 4/4.

But, he works well with it, and with the whole decks ability to sac stuff to deal damage.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Should this deck be playing 4 Sigg, River Cutthroat.Seeing as how that's a statement, I disagree.

Confidant isn't usually run due to the fact that it doesn't complement the explosive style of the deck rather then the disharmony with Enforcer.

[Pltnmngl]

Is anyone still messing with this deck. I'm beginning to lose interest in the traditional style of this deck with Atog and Fling. Any ideas?

[overseer1234]

I still play the deck, but I run it without the myr enforcer and in place of it I play dark confidant, I also play 3 pithing needle main deck (usually you call wasteland, but deed and mishra's also work) I'll post my list if anyone wants it...

[Pltnmngl]

I'd like to see it.

[overseer1234]

Here goes:

4x Æther Vial
2x Chromatic Star
4x Cranial Plating
3x Pithing Needle

4x Arcbound Ravager
4x Arcbound Worker
4x Frogmite
4x Ornithopter
4x Dark Confidant
4x Disciple of the Vault
2x Atog

3x Fling

3x Blinkmoth Nexus
4x Darksteel Citadel
3x Glimmervoid
4x Great Furnace
4x Vault of Whispers

Sideboard
4x Tormod’s Crypt
3x Engineered Plague
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Shattering Spree
1x Pithing Needle


Here's a short explanation of for some cards
I really like BOB inhere because he can be vial'd in and he makes playing blue irrelevant so i can play a full set of citadels without worrying about the mana base's consistency, this also makes wasteland and deed a bit less painful...), he swings with plating, is flingable and gives card advantage, and because I don't play thoughtcast the highest amount of damage that i can take is from the frogmites...

The needle is just to good for words and you mostly name wasteland, deed or powder keg when you don't exactly know what your opponent's playing, and if you're wrong you can still sac it to ravager or atog.
I owe a lot of game's to this card...

Atog is just the nuts with fling and makes you win on turn 3 with fling and with disciple's it sometimes not even necessary to attack

Fling just wins games on it's own sometimes without the need for attacking.

The sideboard is pretty meta dependant...

I'm still thinking about adding epochrasite's, but I like my deck the way it is, so I don't know what to cut...

This build also plays a bit more like a combo. U can still go agro, and than just draw fling/atog with confidant an go "Oops, I win..."

Hope you like it.

[puddn]

springleaf drum >> chromatic star and springleaf drum >> lotus petal
IMHO you have too springleaf drum >> vial...

if you play the vial version, you have to run confident even if it decelerates the mecanism of the deck
but with drum, you gain speed, stability and more place for active cards

i don"t think that sygg must be played in affinity... the condition to draw only one card is difficult to realize, confident is better

[RoddyVR]

Hi guys, i'd like to build a "ravager is the only non-cheap card in this deck" version of Affinity. I cant afford (and dont want to) Goyfs, and i dont like Dark Confidants at all (the whole self killing thing doesnt sit well with me). So i'd like to build a desciple+fling version.
What i need advice on is:
1. is blue for Thoughtcast worth it?
2. without the goyfs and confidants, what's better, vial or springleaf? there arent many 2 drops left in the deck, so vial would likely stay at 1, at which point springleaf seems better cause it helps with equiping plating.
3. Without lotus petal, there's only one 0cc spell left in the deck (thopter), which means droping frogmites on turn 1 is prety unlikely (you'd need thopter and springleaf to be able to do it)... i thought that was the point of the deck?

What should i change in this first rought draft that i put together this morning:

4x blue artifact land
4x red artifact land
4x black artifact land
4x indestructible artifact land
4x Glimmervoid

4x Aether Vial
4x Throughtcast
4x Fling
4x Cranial Plating

4x Ornithopter
4x Desciple of the Vault
4x Arcbound Worker
4x Arcbound Ravager
4x Frogmite
4x Myr Enforcer

I gold fished it a few times on the train, and got the impression that there's too many lands. Should i cut some for Atogs or Lotus petals (the cards that "didnt fit" this morning)? Which lands should i be cutting? The glimmervoids cause they're not artifacts or the citadels cause they dont make colored mana?
Should any of these cards not be 4x? Vial seems extreme at 4, but if i'm gonna replace it with springleaf then it should probably be a 4, right?

I've read the last few pages of this thread, and most of my questions have already been answered, but as far as i can tell, they've been answered for hte Goyf (and maybe with confidant) version of hte deck, and if i'm going without those cards then i'm not sure the answers remain the same.

Thanks a bunch for any input.

[rleader]

EXT affinity is a speed deck.

Legacy affinity, as it's most commonly built, is a bad combo deck that can sometimes go nuts with aggro.

You can see the difference by looking at shrapnel blast vs. fling and the risk/reward involved in each. I think both builds have positives and negatives, so think about your metagame.

random points:

*I like springleaf drum, especially since it makes wacky sideboarding easier.

*4 glimmervoid is too much, and it's not a cheap card, spend your money on a few blinkmoth nexus instead.

*frogmites suck at everything besides helping you to play more frogmites and enforcers. They do give you a critical mass of dudes who can carry plating (especially if you can equip at instant speed), but they're pretty weak overall, especially since legacy builds never get to play them first turn.

[arsenalpow]

Depending on what type of version you want to play (aggro or more combo) it can be set up easily for a person with a limited budget. Here is a rough version of a more aggro version

4 ornithopter
4 arcbound worker
4 arcbound ravager
4 frogmite
4 myr enforcer
4 disciple of the vault
2 atog

4 cranial plating
4 springleaf drum

4 thoughtcast
4 shrapnel blast

4 great furnace
4 vault of whispers
4 seat of the synod
4 darksteel citadel
2 city of brass

Atog is only there for a sac outlet to fuel damage with disciples, i skipped the blinkmoths and the glimmervoid for city of brass which would be the more budget option. You can also operate without the aether vials. The good thing about affinity is that it can easily upgraded for a small amount of funds and usually the cards you upgrade with (aether vial, pithing needle) can be used in other decks.

You can of course really really upgrade with goyfs and beserks but thats a whole different type of affinity :)

[RoddyVR]

Depending on what type of version you want to play (aggro or more combo) it can be set up easily for a person with a limited budget. Here is a rough version of a more aggro version

4 ornithopter
4 arcbound worker
4 arcbound ravager
4 frogmite
4 myr enforcer
4 disciple of the vault
2 atog

4 cranial plating
4 springleaf drum

4 thoughtcast
4 shrapnel blast

4 great furnace
4 vault of whispers
4 seat of the synod
4 darksteel citadel
2 city of brass

Atog is only there for a sac outlet to fuel damage with disciples, i skipped the blinkmoths and the glimmervoid for city of brass which would be the more budget option. You can also operate without the aether vials. The good thing about affinity is that it can easily upgraded for a small amount of funds and usually the cards you upgrade with (aether vial, pithing needle) can be used in other decks.

You can of course really really upgrade with goyfs and beserks but thats a whole different type of affinity :)

Thanks for your help. I actualy have a playset of Glimmervoids and vials for this deck. 2x Glimmervoid is probably better then 2x city of brass (which i actualy dont have, lol). Should i use the vials or get the springleafs (i didnt know about them till yesterday so didnt get them, but shouldnt be hard).

Also, why shrapnel blast instead of Fling? does it fit this sort of build better, or is fling better? I also cant figure out what's so good about the Blinkmoth Nexus... is the whole flying manland thing realy worth it not being an artifact for afinity costs (spend 1 mana to make affinity cost 1 less = no gain)? And if i do get Blinkmoths, which lands should they replace (and how many)?

Thanks again for your help, this gives me a much more sturdy starting point to work from, instead of always thinking "what if this card is better only cause of the goyf inclusion thing".

Oh, ye, almost forgot. Is Myr Servitor a bad idea? I like the idea of sacing one of them to ravager everyturn to have it come back or equiping it with plating and flinging it a few times. But i suspect i'd not get 2 of them often enough to actualy use their ability.

[Baumeister]

If you're looking for a fairly inexpensive version of the deck, I'd use this one. It's been the most consistant for me:

Lands (18)
4x Seat of the Synod
4x Vault of Whispers
4x Great Furnace
3x Blinkmoth Nexus
3x Glimmervoid

Creatures (24)
4x Ornithopter
4x Arcbound Worker
4x Arcbound Ravager
4x Frogmite
4x Myr Enforcer
4x Disciple of the Vault

Other Spells (18)
4x Aether Vial
4x Cranial Plating
4x Thoughtcast
3x Chromatic Star
3x Shrapnel Blast

That's pretty standard. Chromatic Star is amazing with Disciple/Ravager since it nets you a card. If you're not going to play Atog, don't play Fling. Fling turns your best creature into damage, while Shrapnel Blast turns your worst artifact into damage. Plus, if Fling gets countered, you're screwed. This version of the deck is not screamingly fast, but it's been very solid for me. I don't know how many of the cards you already have, but buy the Aether Vials and Ravagers first, then save and get the rest. You'll use the Aether Vials more than anything if you want to switch to a different deck, so they won't go to waste. I got my set of Ravagers for about $35, so just look around and you can find them fairly cheaply. The Vials should run you about $15 to $20 for the set, and the rest of the deck (besides Glimmervoids and Blinkmoth Nexus) are cheap commons and uncommons. I'd say that Blinkmoth Nexus is the last card you need to get, but it is very good in the deck.

[arsenalpow]

The springleaf drum is faster than the vial, but the vial dodges permission and allows for some interesting combat tricks. Just choose what would be best for your meta.

I included shrapnel blast because its more of an aggro type card, whereas fling/atog is more of a combo orientation.

Blinkmoth nexus is a really solid card because you can pass counters onto him when he is active and at end of turn when he turns back into a land he still retains the counters. There are alot of little interactions with affinity that you need pick up, such as saccing ravager to his own ability in order to pass his modular counters onto an unblocked creature after blockers are declared but before damage, or utilizing the attach portion of a cranial plating in the same manner.

[Pltnmngl]

I've been playing this build...

Roberto Zagarella - Affinity

4 Furnace
4 Seat
4 Vault
3 Glimmervoid
2 Citadel

4 Worker
4 Ravager
4 Frogmite
4 Orni
4 Disciple
3 Atog
4 Shrapnel Blast
3 Fling
4 Thoughtcast
4 Chromatic Star
3 Vial
3 Plating
1 Needle

SB:
4 Duress
4 Crypt
4 Plague
3 Needle

Say what you want about running 62 cards. This deck runs pretty smooth and is perfect for my budget.

[raharu]

-1 needle, +1 Vial in the MD. There's no reason to not run 4 Aether Vials and 4 needles in total is excessive in almost any matchup.

rawr rawr rawr 62 cards. Seriously, there's no reason to play a sub-optimal deck.

Also, why Frogmite but not Enforcer? Enforcer's got the power.

[Sampsa]

and another not about the 62 cards, do you really need that 17th land? shrapnel blast and fling together also seem really excessive, and youve already got atog for sacrificing. id recommend cutting fling for enforcer as raharu suggested. sometimes you just need a dude with a naturally fat ass

[Pltnmngl]

Keep in mind that this build has top8'd a decent number of times. Not like that means much...

Enforcer is cool, but you're not vialing him in and he doesn't really see play until turn 3, which I usually get better options. However, I will squeeze this down to the proper 60 with some enforcers to test...

[Sampsa]

you can play enforcer and whatever other turn 3 play you have in the same turn. hes usually free by then

[rleader]

I rarely get enforcer in play by turn three. It just doesn't happen when you're playing vials. It happens in EXT versions a lot, but that's because you're throwing cards in the trash with moxes and are playing various 0-mana crap.

YMMV, I'm sure lots of people draw four frogmite hands (same people who brag about getting damnation and extirpate in the same PC packs no doubt), but enforcer isn't something you can depend on and fairs poorly against goyfs anyway.

[Iranon]

Enforcer needs a little love.

If all your lands are artifacts and you run ~6 free artifacts in total (e.g. Crypt if your meta warrants it) they can come down reliably on turn 3. Turn 2 occasionally if you run Paradise Mantle/Springleaf Drum.
I wouldn't say Enforcer does poorly against Goyf at all if you can juggle a few counters.

Some might question whether he's worth tweaking your deck around, but I think Affinity needs to remain solid aggro without the combo effects, and I vastly prefer Enforcer over Tarmogoyf.

[Dark_Cynic87]

I think Springleaf Drum is highly underrated in Affinity. I think that it rivals Vial in most of these list. A 3/3 split might not be a horrible idea.

Creatures: 22
4x Ravager
4x Disciple
4x Worker
3x Frogmite
3x Thopter
2x Enforcer
2x Atog

Spells: 21
4x S. Blast
4x C. Plating
4x Thoughtcast
3x Vial
3x Drum
3x ???* (explained at bottom)

Land: 17
4x Seat
4x Furnace
4x Vault
3x Nexus
1x City of Brass
1x Glimmervoid

Sideboard: 15
15x metagame slots

The ??? slots would be for disruption/meta calls. I prefer cards such as Stifle, Disrupt, Remand, Mana Leak/Miscalculation, Spell Snare, etc. I prefer remand rather than Disrupt just because you are already extremely open to Chalice at 1, although disrupt is better at countering this. I would like to point out that both Disrupt and Remand help hinder their tempo while boosting yours via their card draw = keeping your tempo. Now, getting a Vial down is another alternative, but on the draw a chalice at 1 can really ruin your day. If you expect stompy/stax lists, I recommend running Extirpates in the board along with Duress/T-Seize suite, and probably even bounce in the form of Rushing River, as it is also a boon against lists that drop first turn 3sphere second turn Chalice @ 1. Bouncing those 2 at the same time can really turn the game in your favor. Extirpate is also good against cards like Force of Will, Counterbalance, etc.

Your sideboard is COMPLETELY reliant on your metagame in my opinion. If you think you have a lot of problems against combo, I like Stifles and Chants, which of course requires Dens (as few as 1x or 2x as you have Drums, City and G-Void). I also like Meddling Mage as a sb slot for this, which is also good against any list that hinges on a central card (LftL, for example). Also good at naming their silver bullets against you such as H. Recall, Rebuild, or whatever. There's Hand disruption also; Thoughtseize and Duress. You can completely customize your sideboard. Thoughtseize is obviously better, but Duress hasn't ever been considered a bad card.

Chant is not only good against combo, but also against aggro such as goblins, acting as Time Walks (Ironically this is what combo uses them for against you...) If you want more tempo, and expect combo heavy but little to no aggro, you can run Abeyance, as it cantrips.

Krosan Grip is even an option, as in the above build there are 5x cards mainboard that give you access to all 5 colors. You can really tecH out your board for your worst fears.

I realize my thoughts have been rather scattered throughout, but maybe you can take the main ideas out of this.

any and all thoughts are welcome.

Pce,

--DC

[Sanguine Voyeur]

I've actually found Chalice at two to be better then one. One cuts off Vial, Drum, Worker, and Disciple. Two cuts off Ravager, Plaiting, Atog, Fling, and Shrapnel Blast. Although Vial can get around two, cutting off all of those stops the deck from suddenly winning.

[Maëlig]

Imo running vial or not depends on 1. your meta and 2. whether you run colored creatures such as goyf or bob. Having some disruption is interesting, but 3 remand isn't going to help you much. Winter orb and/or tangle wire can also be intersting.
Also, I saw nothing writen about heap doll. Is it a possible MD option in metas full of ichorid (it can remove bridges AND another card), loam, etc?

[Maëlig]

(Sorry for the double post, but no one replied for a while now and I have to up the thread.)

How do you guys feel about this list?

// Lands
4 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
3 [MR] Glimmervoid
3 [DS] Blinkmoth Nexus
4 [MR] Vault of Whispers
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod

// Creatures
4 [MR] Disciple of the Vault
4 [AQ] Ornithopter
4 [MR] Frogmite
3 [MR] Myr Enforcer
4 [DS] Arcbound Ravager
4 [SHM] Heap Doll

// Spells
4 [FD] Cranial Plating
4 [NE] Tangle Wire
4 [LRW] Springleaf Drum
3 [U] Winter Orb
4 [MR] Thoughtcast

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [7E] Engineered Plague
SB: 4 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void

I've taken out the whole atog/fling engine, which imo is not reliable enough. This is a more controllish version, with winter orb and tangle wire to slow down the opponent (they barely affect our play) and clear the way for the attackers. The orbs can be traded for thorns against threshold-type decks or combo. Heap doll replaces arcbound worker because there are lots of loam and ichorids in my meta, and I find it quite decent.
Tips on improving it?

[dude 666]

I came up with a list that has been working very well for me. I took the stifle-nought plan from affownity and incorporated it into a more standard affinity list. Almost every card is a major threat.

Lands: 17
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
3 Glimmervoid
3 Blinkmoth Nexus
3 Darksteel Citadel

Creatures: 27
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Dark Confidant
4 Ornithopter
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Frogmite

Spells: 16
4 Thoughtcast
4 Cranial Plating
4 Stifle
1 Vision Charm
3 Springleaf Drum

SB: meta dependent, really
4 Engineered Plague
4 Extirpate
4 Duress
3 Pithing Needle

Thoughts?

[Mirrislegend]

As a preface, my testing and experience with the deck is rather limited. However, I'm diving into it because it fits my budget and theoretically breaks my local meta. In the few local legacy tourneys I can find, Counter-Top decks have been everywhere. A Death-and-Taxes build got to stomp on everyone just becuase it ran Oblivion Ring and Vial, ruining the Counter-Top lock. Here's what I've got so far:

4 Ornithopter
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Frogmite
4 Somber Hoverguard
4 Myr Enforcer

4 Thoughtcast
3 Fling
1 Aether Vial
4 Chromatic Star
4 Cranial Plating

4 Seat of the Synod
4 Great Furnace
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Darksteel Citadel

I run the Hoverguards to add more Counter-Top-resistant threats, and to fly over goyfs. As a result, Vial can only power out a small fraction of the deck, and thus takes the hit on numbers. And +2 Glimmervoid, -2 Darksteel Citadel as soon as I can get my paws on the glimmers.

My current thoughts on my build are as follows (I also don't know what to drop for these changes):
1)+Epochrasite, +Vial (and +Atog to truely abuse the vials)
2)-blue + confidant + white for stp and disenchant effects? (goyf and counter-top hate)
3)+Jitte MD? (Despite my budget, I own 3)

Thoughts, comments?

[Pelikanudo]

Has anybody thout in putiting in the goblin welder, it somehow fits the deck perfectly:
you can draw 1 extra card by turn with chromatic star, sacrifice ravagers and workers to make bigger your creaures, you even can change/retrieve an ornitopter by a enforcer...and with vial it looks so synergistic...
As well we can put in survival, but it could be too much...
Any suggestions?

[KillemallCFH]

Actually, yes. I've been testing a Mono Red build that uses Welder and Moon. Welder essentially makes all your artifacts uncounterable if he lands. His interactions with Modular creature are great and he helps immensely in surviving the late game and beating control. I'm still unsure on how powerful Moon is in Affinity, but I can say that I've loved Welder thus far.

[Shriekmaw]

Please, if you want to run Affinity in today's Legacy metagame, then I believe Aether Vial must be cut in the favor of Springleaf Drum.

I stated my opinion on the card already, but Drum speeds up the deck so much that it cannot be ignored. The reasons that I switched was because I saw how much it speeds up the deck.

There is not one matchup where I would want Aether Vial over Springleaf Drum. Plus, the matchups where Vial is better are the ones were you just smash anyways. Any kind of blue control deck you should beat anyways and thats where Vial is better than Drum.

When playing against the aggro decks, being able to put them in a very bad position by turn 3 is where Drum really shines.

Let me know what some of the players think.

[dude 666]

I agree with nick on the springleaf drum issue, aether vial is simply too slow, and it only works for creatures. Drum makes mana for any spell.

Out of curiosity, what do you think of the list I posted a few posts back?

[KillemallCFH]

Please, if you want to run Affinity in today's Legacy metagame, then I believe Aether Vial must be cut in the favor of Springleaf Drum.

I stated my opinion on the card already, but Drum speeds up the deck so much that it cannot be ignored. The reasons that I switched was because I saw how much it speeds up the deck.

There is not one matchup where I would want Aether Vial over Springleaf Drum. Plus, the matchups where Vial is better are the ones were you just smash anyways. Any kind of blue control deck you should beat anyways and thats where Vial is better than Drum.

When playing against the aggro decks, being able to put them in a very bad position by turn 3 is where Drum really shines.

Let me know what some of the players think.I completely agree. My Welder/Moon list is running it over Vial, in which it is especially more crucial as it allows for turn 2 Moon. It allows Affinity to be so much more explosive while fixing mana. Even against Blue control, I'm not convinced Vial is better, as Drum allows insane speed and lets you seal the game before control can, well, gain control.

[enemyofarsenic]

Could you post your welder affinity list?

[Pltnmngl]

You guys do present good points, however Vial just creates consistency that you can't ignore. True, Drum does speed us up quite a bit, but we tend to run out of gas either way...