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Joshs453
01-07-2008, 08:19 PM
My friend tuned me into this contest and I found myself immediately intrigued, I wanted to post a decklist and cement this idea as mine before anyone else got to it. I will edit this post within a couple days to a complete analysis on card choices and matchups, but for now I just wanted to grab the idea before someone else did. The thought process is that last extended season we saw a new deck sporting a disruption package and powerful enchantment: Destructive Flow. I went to a tournament for legacy in San Diego and in preparing for it I asked my buddy why no one was playing a deck with it. This card seems built for legacy, as it can completely cripple decks singlehandedly by playing it on turn 2 or even turn 3. Landstill, Thresh, and most of the combo decks will have a hard time winning to a resolved flow. In addition, the 3 colors needed to support offer good and cheap disruption to ensure its presence on the board. I didn't have enough time to originally test the deck and decided to leave it for a rainy day. Well here is that rainy day. (Note: This list is just a rough estimation and will be updated when I have more time in the next couple days)
// Lands
1 [A] Bayou
1 [A] Badlands
1 [U] Taiga
3 [ON] Wooded Foothills
3 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
6 [RAV] Forest (1)
2 [ST] Mountain (2)
3 [9E] Swamp (4)

// Creatures
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [5E] Birds of Paradise
3 [10E] Troll Ascetic
3 [FD] Eternal Witness
4 [10E] Hypnotic Specter

// Spells
2 [MR] Chrome Mox
3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [R] Lightning Bolt
3 [JU] Cabal Therapy
3 [LOR] Thoughtseize
3 [PS] Destructive Flow

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [PS] Destructive Flow
SB: 3 [UL] Engineered Plague
SB: 2 [7E] Pyroclasm
SB: 2 [4E] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of the Void

APriestOfGix
01-07-2008, 08:23 PM
The deck looks really good, card by card. However, it seems like you just playing the best cards at doing what they do, instead of fitting them together seamlessly. It's kinda cluncky. How are GG for Troll, BB for Hypie, and R for bolt treating you mana base? You don't have enough duals to cast things reliably, and yet, if you add the duals, Wasteland is an auto loss.

kundera
01-07-2008, 08:32 PM
I don't wanna sound counterproductive, but my tests with this idea didn't have good results at all. When I was presented the CaNGD contest by a friend of mine, the Destructive Flow idea came to mind, and I tried to build a legacy deck around it.

After I started testing, I quickly abandoned it, as it seemed to have a bad matchup against Thresh, in its many forms, and that is just unacceptable in the current metagame.

I'm not saying you should quit on it. Actually, I would love to see a Flow deck doing well and I'll be keeping an eye on your development. I didn't test your list, but I intend to do so.

If you could say some good words about the Thresh matchup, I would love so. :D

Kadaj
01-07-2008, 08:47 PM
Just some basic suggestions here:

Cut:
-4 Lighting Bolt
-2 Chrome Mox
-3 Troll Ascetic

Add:
+4 Smother
+1 Forest
+1 Swamp
+3 Shriekmaw/Flametongue Kavu

Here's my reasoning. First off, the random Chrome Moxes are not good and unnecessary. You don't want conditional lands, you want actual lands. Second, Lightning Bolt and Troll Ascetic are both awful in Legacy right now, neither of them answering the chief threat in the format (Tarmogoyf) or providing a solid alternative to it. A package of Smother and Shriekmaw (or Flametongue Kavu if you dislike Shriekmaw) gives you more flexibility and strength in the Threshold matchup, something you absolutely have to be able to win.

kundera
01-07-2008, 08:55 PM
I think Josh uses the chrome moxen to enable the turn 2 flow. It is much more effective when cast on turn 2, and only BoP is not enough.

I second Smother over Lightning Bolt though.

Tacosnape
01-07-2008, 09:03 PM
Is Destructive Flow that powerful compared to, say, Blood Moon? Which wouldn't be all that much harder to run if you packed eight fetches and axed the duals, and stuck with things like Goyf and Confidant?

FakeSpam
01-07-2008, 10:10 PM
Is Destructive Flow that powerful compared to, say, Blood Moon?

Fun fact: Lands under blood moon are still nonbasic. You could, theoretically, run both. In much the same way that Dragon Stompy runs a large number of Moon effects, it's a sound disruptive strategy. More sound than say, the current mana requirements of your win conditions. Stay out of double colors and you'll lose to your own deck less.

Bryant Cook
01-07-2008, 10:27 PM
I'll have GetSickAndDie post in here he ran the deck for weeks on end in locals.

from Cairo
01-07-2008, 10:39 PM
TBH, not trying to bash the idea, but Dragon Stompy seems to accomplish the same goals in a more synergistic shell. It has the mana disruption in dual Moon effects, and packs equal if not better acceleration and comparable disruption to the discard package, in its Chalice/Sphere base.

I mean it seems like alot of effort to spread out over 3 colors and really not be gaining a whole ton in doing so, Flow is obnoxious, but its not as fast a lock unless you're able to push it onto the board turn 2 or something, otherwise it seems the opponent would have time to dig for answers.

Joshs453
01-08-2008, 12:04 AM
I also think that smother is better then bolt for all of the reasons mentioned above and more. The problem then becomes dealing with a turn 1 lackey. I had initially started with smother, but a lackey on the play leaves me with chump blocking with a birds or mising a turn 1 goyf. I havent had any problems with the mana base thus far, but I can see the point in critiquing it. the good news about cutting bolt is i can up the forest count and play a singleton mountain as all of my fetches get red. I would like a cheap black removal smother that can deal with turn 1 plays that doesnt rely on mising a mox, i just havent thought of any.
Thanks for the critiques, remember this is just a rough list that i will tune in the coming weeks.

Nihil Credo
01-08-2008, 12:07 AM
TBH, not trying to bash the idea, but Dragon Stompy seems to accomplish the same goals in a more synergistic shell
I disagree. If the Blood Moon lockdown plan fails for whatever reason, then Dragon Stompy is extremely vulnerable to any deck with decent removal - it runs so much acceleration and card disadvantage that he doesn't recover well.

Flow Aggro, however, can put pressure in lots of other ways. It has a shit-ton of pure and virtual CA sources: Confidant, Specter, Jitte, Ascetic, Witness + Therapy, and so on.

The only issue is making sure that said threats do not get stuck in your hand out of colour-screw. Without testing, I'm guessing that Troll is fine because of your focus on green, but Hypnotic Specter looks much more dangerous.

Getsickanddie
01-08-2008, 12:26 AM
I'd like to start off by saying I ran Destructive Flow Rock decks in Syracuse for a few months with a lot of success. I'm not as big of a fan of the aggro lists that are popular in extended, but of more controlling builds. I personally would not run the thread starters list, but will comment a little for shits and giggles.


Here's my reasoning. First off, the random Chrome Moxes are not good and unnecessary.

Actually have 2 Chrome Moxes in this kind of deck is extremely important. Destructive Flow is most powerful when it hits the table turn two. Some of my favorite plays with the deck is something like Landstill is turn one mox hymn, turn two flow.



Troll Ascetic are both awful in Legacy right now

I agree that lightning bolt seems out of place, but you really need a first turn answer to lackey. I'm not sure if bolt is the right call, but you need something other then birds chump block.

Troll Ascetic, however, I believe is very underrated right now. He is especially insane in meta-games where control decks dominate.