PDA

View Full Version : [Deck] BS Combo



Tosh
01-12-2008, 01:24 AM
Introduction
This deck started a couple of times but was interrupted by some other decks (Meat Hooks, mainly). It started with Maverick676's spring tide list that ran Bosium Strip; we all laughed at him for that card. Into his binder it was retired. One day about a month ago, after getting losing a round and not wanting to play for a chance at a small prize, I decided I was going to make a new good deck. After a couple ideas came, and then dismissed because they sucked, I came to a legacy-ish port of Vintage Gifts. We came up with a rather crazy list then Pinder noticed something... there was no Yawgmoth's Will. Almost at once, we asked "What about Bosium Strip?" It wasn't until we put it in that we realized it's power. Bosium Strip allows you to play rituals, tutors, and finishers twice! We also noticed that in a deck designed around Bosium Strip that Intuition would be much better than Gifts Ungiven. Our original list included a red splash for Rite of Flame but we soon realized that it wasn't necessary so it was cut for more protection. To analyze what tools are available for the deck I created a list of cards of each basic category of spells (in a combo deck).

Card Pool
Fundamental Cards:

4x Bosium Strip
4x Dark Ritual
4x Cabal Ritual
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
3x Infernal Tutor
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Ill-Gotten GainsProtection:

Counterspell
[u] Force of Will
Duress
[b] Cabal Therapy
[u] Daze
[u] Misdirection
[W] Orim's Chant
[g] Xantid Swarm
[b] Shred Memory ('yard only in case of IGG)
[A] Engineered ExplosivesMana:

[b] Dark Ritual*
[b] Cabal Ritual*
[A] Lion's Eye Diamond*
[A] Lotus Petal
[R] Rite of Flame
[G] Elvish Spirit Guide
[R] Simian Spirit Guide
[R] Desperate RitualTutor:

[b] Infernal Tutor*
[b] Ill-Gotten Gains*
[u] Gifts Ungiven
[u] Intuition
[b] Plunge into Darkness
[R] Gamble
[W] Enlightened Tutor
[u] Mystical Tutor
[b] Grim Tutor
[b] Shred Memory
[BU] Lim-Dul's VaultSet Up:


[b] Skeletal Scrying
[u] Ponder
[u] Mental Note
[u] Brainstorm
Win Condition:


[b] Tendrils of Agony*
[R] Empty the Warrens
* Included in the Fundamental Cards

I think the trick will be finding the balance between all these categories. Enough protection to prevent disruption; enough rituals to have the mana to go off; and enough tutor to find the pieces that we need in order to go off.
[B]The List:
Blue Version

// Lands
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [A] Underground Sea
4 [CS] Snow-Covered Swamp
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
2 [A] Scrubland

// Spells
3 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
3 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
3 [WL] Bosium Strip
4 [TO] Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
4 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
3 [RAV] Shred Memory
4 [PS] Orim's Chant
4 [MI] Mystical Tutor
4 [GP] Leyline of the Void

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [WL] Bosium Strip
SB: 4 [NE] Massacre
SB: 3 [NE] Seal of Cleansing
SB: 3 [5E] Disenchant
SB: 4 ? <Metagame choice>

Green Version (Experimental and not too tested ATM)

// Lands
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [CS] Snow-Covered Swamp
3 [b] Bayou
3 [R] Scrubland
1 [MOR] Murmuring Bosk
4 [ON] Windswept Heath

// Creatures
3 [SC] Xantid Swarm
4 [FUT] Street Wraith

// Spells
2 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
2 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
3 [WL] Bosium Strip
4 [TO] Cabal Ritual
4 [b] Dark Ritual
4 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
2 [JU] Death Wish
3 [RAV] Shred Memory
3 [PS] Orim's Chant
2 [b] Regrowth

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SC] Xantid Swarm
SB: 1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 1 [PS] Orim's Chant
SB: 4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
SB: 4 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [NE] Massacre

LED - Yeah, this is a combo deck.
Dark Ritual - see above
Cabal Ritual - This gets retarded under an activated Strip, and is pretty standard combo fare.
Shred Memory - Combo needs tutors! This one also doubles as GY removal (VERY relevent with BS but also with IGG too [remove forces/dazes pre-IGG]).
Infernal Tutor - Combo, remember?
Lotus Petal - These could probably go, actually. They're mostly there to add storm and mana. Could possibly be a different mana source (SSG?)
Orim's Chant/Xantid Swarm - Orim's Chant is a Time Walk when you need it, or total protection for your combo for before you go off.
Leyline of the Void - Same reason that Iggy-Pop runs it: mad synergy with IGG.
Death Wish - Another tutor for stuff you've replayed under strip, for answers or win cards.
Ill Gotten Gains - You can go IGGy style IT/LED/LED to add storm count. With this it's possible to go off without Bosium Strip and happens quite often (40-50% esp against decks w/ no counterspells).
Bosium Strip - I believe Pinder explained this best (taken from our team forums):

I know, it looks like it sucks. And it might. But activating this thing is like a YawgWill, and I'm not exaggerating in the slightest. You can do absolutely nutty shit when you activate this guy. Think Dark Ritual, Infernal Tutor (you crack LEDs here if you have any)-> Dark Ritual -> Dark Ritual->Infernal Tutor-> Infernal Tutor -> Dark Ritual -> Dark Ritual -> Infernal Tutor -> Tendrils for 22. Keep in mind that's off a single black mana with two cards in hand. And if you have some lands or another ritual, you can actually just play the Tutor and crack LED in resp to activate Strip and do everything that I just laid out. Theoretically you can do this as early as turn 2.

[B]Cards Not Included:
Skeletal Scrying: Drawing cards mid-combo is bad due to the dependence on an empty hand for Infernal Tutor.
Rite of Flame: Red is often not needed and can get in the way.
Burning Wish: Double red is hard to get (if EtW is the target) and Death Wish does the same thing.
Intuition: 3-mana setup card that can get the same thing as Mystical Tutor. Sure, it gets threshold some times but it is harder to play in the yard with Bosium Strip as well as covering up some cards in the graveyard.
Mystical Tutor: Shred Memory takes this slot (Shred synergizes with the deck more and isn't card disadvantage. It's double purpose makes it really good and versatile).

Cards Being Tested:
G: Regrowth: Not too sure about this card. Replaced 1x Bosium Strip and 1x Duress
U: Meditate: I'm trying to fit 2 in and see how it works out.

Match-Ups (In Progress):
Note: Match-Up percentages are based on testing and will be updated to reflect further testing
[U]Vial Goblins: Very easy game 1. I've seen many 3-color lists for Krosan Grip, Tin Street Hooligan and Cabal Therapy (and Wort, but that's irrelevent in this MU) which is what I'm testing against.
{G1: 83% (10-2), G2/3: 75% (3-1), Total: 81%}
UGw Thresh: Bosium Strip and Counterbalance are the key cards again. Mages coming in from the board seem a mere inconvenience from what the Landstill's post-sideboard games have shown.
{G1: 57% (4-3), G2/3: __%, Total: 57%}
UGr Thresh:
{G1: 100% (5-0), G2/3: __%, Total: 100%}
Landstill This match up is relatively easy. Bring in 2x EtW for 2x IGG and go for a double tendrils or just EtW.
{G1: 50% (1-1), G2/3: 71% (5-2), Total: 67%}
Cephalid Breakfast: Feel free to combo without protection! This is a pretty easy matchup.
{G1: 100% (1-0), G2/3: 50% (1-1), Total: 67%}
TES:
G1: __% (), G2/3: __% (), Total: __%} Goldfish Stats:
I goldfished a total of 50 games.
Turn1: 0 (0%)
Turn2: 5 (10%)
Turn3: 20 (40%)
Turn4: 20 (40%)
Turn5+: 5 (10%)
With pre-combo Duress or Cabal Therapy: 25 (50%)
Storm Enabler:
IGG: 23 (46%)
BS: 24 (48%)
Tutor Chain: 3 (6%)

Q&A:
This will get filled out as people ask questions
Q: Why is this better than other combo decks such as TES or Iggy Pop?
Bosium Strip (BS) allows the player to set up a turn before they go off (Can be as early as turn 1 dark ritual into BS). BS also helps against decks with heavy disruption because the cards that were countered or discarded can be played with an activated BS again. Just like Iggy Pop, this deck can combo off with IGG at fairly fast speeds (average turn 3-4) and like TES it has access to Empty the Warrens if necessary as well the ability to "slow roll" the game by sculpting your hand and trying to get a BS resolved.

Credit:
Team Infoninja, but specifically:
Maverick676 and Pinder

Michael Keller
01-12-2008, 02:47 AM
While I loved Bosium Strip back in the day, it is just too mana intensive to win a serious game of Magic with. I'm not saying you can't, I'm saying often you probably won't. Ill Gotten Gains is Yawg-Will for Legacy, albeit the ridiculous amount of power Yawg Win has in Vintage. That [Ill Gotten] should be sufficient.

Tosh
01-12-2008, 02:16 PM
While I loved Bosium Strip back in the day, it is just too mana intensive to win a serious game of Magic with. I'm not saying you can't, I'm saying often you probably won't. Ill Gotten Gains is Yawg-Will for Legacy, albeit the ridiculous amount of power Yawg Win has in Vintage. That [Ill Gotten] should be sufficient.
The problem with IGG is that it lets them get their counters back and it relies on having a lot of ritual effects in your hand. When faced with heavy disruption, IGG becomes useless whereas Bosium Strip allows you to replay what was countered or discarded.
This deck does run IGG and as you can see from the goldfishing stats, it uses it as a storm enabler about 50% of the time. The point is, you can use both.

noobslayer
01-12-2008, 02:34 PM
I can see this combo being incredible thought intensive. As you have to account for a precise grave-yard order, opponents disruption, etc. I'd suggest some sort of a graveyard filter. Also, Rite of Flame is exceptionally good, even if it produces an off color mana, because it works well outside of your engine as well.

EDIT: Stand-by for a potentially epic 1000th post.

Tosh
01-12-2008, 02:42 PM
I could give Rite another try although I was thinking of cutting Volcanics for Tundras so I could have Orim's Chant.
This deck is relatively thought intensive although the part I like best is the while comboing, you leave nothing to chance. There are no draw spells so you can calculate everything out.


I'd suggest some sort of a graveyard filter.I'm trying to find a good yard filter; however, Skeletal Scrying just sucks with Infernal Tutor and anything else just plain sucks unless I'm going off with Bosium Strip. I would need Wizards to print a ritual effect that removed cards in your yard and an additional cost or something.

Tog
01-12-2008, 03:18 PM
I've tried to break Bosium Strip several times. One of the biggest problems plaguing the deck had to be the fact that I always had to make the deck mono-color. The reason being a single Wasteland could destroy a non-basic land and cut off your graveyard to Bosium Strip. Albeit the problem is bigger for a control-based shell (which is what I was attempting to build) rather than combo, it seems that wasteland can potentially be problematic for you as well mid-combo. Has this ever been a problem in testing?

~Tog

Edit: I don't know what value this suggestion holds but Tombstalker can be a way to filter through your yard with its Delve ability. It can also provide an alternate win condition.

Pinder
01-12-2008, 03:19 PM
I can see this combo being incredible thought intensive. As you have to account for a precise grave-yard order, opponents disruption, etc.


It is. A lot of time you do crazy stuff like Infernal Tutor, bunch of rituals in response, in response to that crack LED to activate Bosium Strip, replay all those rituals, then Infernal Tutor -> Crazy batshit nuttiness. A lot of times you use the stack as a sort of 'holding place' for your spells to make sure they don't get covered up in the yard by double LED or something. It takes a while to get the hang of it. One thing I do like here, though, is that the main gameplan makes use of tutors rather than draw effects, so as long as you can think far enough ahead you can always be 100% sure of whether or not you can combo off (barring disruption from the opponent, but between Duress and Therapy maindeck you can be pretty certain of that too). Although at the same time this places a pretty heavy reliance on Infernal Tutor. You can combo off without it, but it's a setback if you don't.

I think you could safely cut a Bosium Strip though, because although they add resilience and allow you to recover, they can clog up your hand sometimes.



I'd suggest some sort of a graveyard filter.


Like Klaan mentioned, we had Skeletal Scrying in here before, but it was too mana instensive, and drawing cards isn't what you really want to do when you're trying to IT from the yard (especially when the draw spell hits the yard above it, costing you another B to get rid of it). However, it would be really nice to have one, so we're open to suggestions.

Aggro_zombies
01-12-2008, 03:40 PM
Well, there's Psychatog, which is an alternate win I suppose...feels rather out of place here. There's also stuff like Rapid Decay (which can be cycled or used on an opponent). If you don't mind almost killing yourself, there's Grave Consequences.

Not really much in the way of graveyard filtering unless you want to use creatures.

Nihil Credo
01-12-2008, 05:48 PM
Shred Memory can both clean a graveyard and fetch Infernal Tutor.

Tosh
01-12-2008, 06:00 PM
Shred Memory can both clean a graveyard and fetch Infernal Tutor.
I like it! I will be testing Shred Memory over Mystical Tutor over the next couple of days.

xsockmonkeyx
01-12-2008, 06:25 PM
Shred Memory can both clean a graveyard and fetch Infernal Tutor.

Can you transmute the Shred Memory if its the top card in your grave and with an active Bosium Strip? Otherwise you're stuck with a Shred Memory on top of your graveyard :/

Pinder
01-12-2008, 06:30 PM
Can you transmute the Shred Memory if its the top card in your grave w/ Bosium Strip?


Nope. Only lets you play them, not use any other abilities. Although that would be really nice. What we really need is some sort of grave filter that doesn't hit the yard after you play it. Not sure if that exists outside of creatures, though.

edit -


I like it! I will be testing Shred Memory over Mystical Tutor over the next couple of days.


Keep in mind, though, that Shred Memory costs 3 to transmute while Mystical only costs 1. Also, playing/transmuting Shred Memory puts a Shred Memory on top of the yard. But I suppose if you transmute it early for IT you can play it under Strip to free up spells in the yard while you're comboing

etrigan
01-12-2008, 06:39 PM
What we really need is some sort of grave filter that doesn't hit the yard after you play it. Not sure if that exists outside of creatures, though.


Scrabbling Claws. It's not reusable though.

xsockmonkeyx
01-12-2008, 06:44 PM
Nope. Only lets you play them, not use any other abilities. Although that would be really nice.

Damn. The printed wording for Bosium Strip makes it look like it should work.

deadlock
01-12-2008, 07:08 PM
Interesting concept, i see BS more in a Combo Control shell though as mentioned.
This deck would run even less BS (1-2) and may use it outside the combo(counter/draw/removal). Something like UB Psychatog with the option to go Tendrils :laugh:

Cavius The Great
01-12-2008, 07:37 PM
How is Bosium Strip better than, let's say, Sins of the Past? They do basically the same thing but Sins of the Past is less conditional.

Watcher487
01-12-2008, 07:41 PM
How is Bosium Strip better than, let's say, Sins of the Past? They do basically the same thing but Sins of the Past is less conditional.

Difference is that Bosium Strip's ability continually gives you the ability to play the top card of the library, while Sins of the Past gives you one card.

Cavius The Great
01-12-2008, 07:46 PM
Difference is that Bosium Strip's ability continually gives you the ability to play the top card of the library, while Sins of the Past gives you one card.

But this deck only needs it once, making Sins of the Past better. As noted above, Klaan was looking for a Yawgmoth's Will in Legacy and Sins is exactly that, minus the drawback of having to combat Wasteland.

Sanguine Voyeur
01-12-2008, 07:55 PM
Difference is that Bosium Strip's ability continually gives you the ability to play the top card of the library, while Sins of the Past gives you one card.Also, the cost can be split over two turns. It can be an incredible source of card advantage if used properly.

Strangely, I toyed with a Bosium powered deck a week or two before the contest started. It's good to know I think so loud, people over the internet can hear me.

xsockmonkeyx
01-12-2008, 07:59 PM
But this deck only needs it once, making Sins of the Past better.

Actually, they want to be able to play multiple spells out of the graveyard.

Pinder
01-12-2008, 08:02 PM
How is Bosium Strip better than, let's say, Sins of the Past? They do basically the same thing but Sins of the Past is less conditional.



Until end of turn, you may play target instant or sorcery card in your graveyard without paying its mana cost. If that card would be put into your graveyard this turn, remove it from the game instead.




Until end of turn, if the top card in your graveyard is an instant or sorcery card, you may play that card. If a card played this way would be put into a graveyard this turn, remove it from the game instead.


Sins of the past lets you replay 1 card for 6 mana. Bosium strip lets you replay as many as you can get on top of your graveyard for the whole turn, for 3 mana.

And the ability to play Bosium strip on one turn and activate it on another is really important. You never (well, very rarely) play and activate Bosium Stip in the same turn.

Illissius
01-12-2008, 08:32 PM
Are you sure that's the correct interpretation of Bosium Strip's wording? Seems sort of ambiguous to me.

iOWN
01-12-2008, 08:40 PM
Are you sure that's the correct interpretation of Bosium Strip's wording? Seems sort of ambiguous to me.

The original wording is much clearer.


Until end of turn, if at any time the top card of your graveyard is an instant, interrupt, or sorcery card, you may play that card as though it were in your hand. If you do, remove the card from the game.

Also, this Wizards' article. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/as29)

Tosh
01-13-2008, 05:10 AM
Keep in mind, though, that Shred Memory costs 3 to transmute while Mystical only costs 1. Also, playing/transmuting Shred Memory puts a Shred Memory on top of the yard. But I suppose if you transmute it early for IT you can play it under Strip to free up spells in the yard while you're comboing
I was thinking along the lines of transmute for Cabal, play cabal twice and then play Shred to remove a pesky LED, Petal, or fetch.


Are you sure that's the correct interpretation of Bosium Strip's wording? Seems sort of ambiguous to me.
I am fairly certain that it is a 'any top card' effect not 'the specific top card and none after that'.



Rules Text (Oracle): http://resources.wizards.com/magic/images/symbols/Symbol_3_mana.gif, http://resources.wizards.com/magic/images/symbols/tap.gif: Until end of turn, if the top card in your graveyard is an instant or sorcery card, you may play that card. If a card played this way would be put into a graveyard this turn, remove it from the game instead.
I understand how it might be interpreted that way but I do believe that if you play the top card and the new top card is also an instant or a sorcery that you can also play that.

EDIT - Found this in the article iOWN posted:


Consider the amount of damage that is possible with just 5 mana, a Bosium Strip and a couple of good burn spells. Cast Lightning Bolt (damage at 3), activate Bosium Strip and recast it (damage at 6). Sacrifice two mountains for a Fireblast (which goes on top of the mountains in your graveyard, damage at 10), and then recast the Fireblast (damage at 14).
Underlined, you can see that he only activates Bosium Strip once.
Bolded, you can see that he recasts two spells from the top of his graveyard.

DeathwingZERO
01-13-2008, 07:25 AM
Are you sure that's the correct interpretation of Bosium Strip's wording? Seems sort of ambiguous to me.

From the Oracle text's reading, "Until end of turn, as long as the top card in your graveyard is an Instant or Sorcery, it may be played as though it was in your hand" basically means it's going to keep checking every time your graveyard's top is new, until the end of the turn when the effect goes away. So I'm pretty sure it's safe to assume it works no matter how many spells you blast through.

deadlock
01-13-2008, 07:35 AM
I was curious too yesterday so i checked SCG Ask the virtual judge database, this is what i came up with:


Q: I have a Bosium Strip and the top three cards in my graveyard are three Lightning Bolts. After I activate the Strip, can I play all three Lightning Bolts, since they all become the top card of my grave one after another?

A: Yes. Bosium Strips creates a continuous effect that only applies as long as the top card in your graveyard is an instant or sorcery. As long the new top card is an instant or sorcery, then you can play that card.

I really woul like to see this in a combo-control shell, too bad i cant think of any good Gifts pile to go with it.

Best fit would be some cheap spells to use it pre combo, mabye Intuition+Ak could be reasonable. Slaughter pact comes to my mind too.
The gy manipulation should be either in form of a win-con like psytog or a general gy-hate, Shred Memory doesnt look too bad.

Just throwing out ideas here, it may be the wrong thread though.

r0ckstAr
01-13-2008, 08:32 AM
I would suggest "Grave Consequences" as a graveyard cleaner :

+ 2 mana, instant, black
+ It allows you to remove every artifact/lands ...
+ You draw a card
+ Against some opponents, can help cleaning their grave/lowering the storm count required for ToA
+ Ichorid, Cephalid Breakfast

- You lose some life

Then you can play it another time, resp play some instants (rituals...), of course you haveto keep tutors in hand to do this but maybe it could work

What do you think about it ?

Tosh
01-13-2008, 01:30 PM
Grave Consequences
is strictly worse than Shred Memory. See why Skeletal Scrying wasn't included.
One thing that I want to stress is that whether I go off using IGG or BS, I don't want to have dead cards. Graveyard removal is pretty useless most of the time with IGG. Shred Memory can be used to transmute into an Infernal Tutor or Cabal Ritual which makes it useful outside of going off with BS.

Tosh
01-18-2008, 01:09 PM
So I did a little testing last night against UGr Thresh (no CB/Top) with the following changes:

-2 Volcanic Island, -1 Swamp
+3 Tundra

-3 Mystical Tutor
+3 Shred Memory

-2 Cabal Therapy, -1 Duress
+4 Orim's Chant

We only played preboard games and I won all 5 of the games we played. Chant was definetly a super card in this matchup and was much better than if it had been a Therapy.
Game 1: Chant + IGG = win
Game 2: Chant + BS = win
Game 3: He had double FoW but I combo-ed out through it with BS = win
Game 4: Duress + IGG (returning a Tendrils w/ enough mana to play it - FoW was not usefull to him) = win
Game 5: I mini Tendrils'd for 14 and Death Wished for Earthquake which finished him off. (He had 3x Daze, 1x FoW, and 2x Stifle this game)

Benie Bederios
01-22-2008, 04:27 PM
From an older thread about Legacy Gifts:


...

If you have Cabal, Dark Rit x2, you might as well:

Intuition for Bosium Strip x3 @ EOT. Now it's turn 4.

Dark Rit (1, BBB), Dark Rit (2, BBBBB), Cabal Rit (3, BBBBB B assuming no Threshold...). Play Strip (4, BBB), Flashback Cabal Rit (5, BBBB), Dark Rit (6, BBBBB B), Dark Rit (7, BBBBB BBB), Flashback Intuition (8, BBBBB B, subtract one blue mana) for Dark Rit, Dark Rit, Tendrils. (Assume they give a Dark Rit.) Dark Rit (9 BBBBB BBB, -u), Dark Rit again (10 BBBBB BBBBB, -u), flashback second Dark Rit (11, BBBBB BBBBB BB), Flashback Tendrils (12 BBBBB BBB, -u).

...

Anyway, might Intuition be possible, it can tutor quite some Rituals for Boisum Strip, it's a pitty it is put on top of the Rituals.

Tosh
01-29-2008, 12:33 AM
A couple of things:
#1: Shred Memory & Orim's Chant are the shit. Orim's Chant is amazing and has single-handedly won several games that I wouldn't have otherwise. Shred Memory make the combo more stable by using it to search for Infernal Tutor or Cabal Ritual thereby turning a tutor-less hand into a game won.
#2: After playing it in several tournaments as well as testing, I have found that the most troublesome cards are: Counterbalance, Chalice of the Void, Leyline of the Void, Trinisphere, and Meddling Mage.
#3: I have recently began questioning the reason that the deck is running blue. Brainstorm is the only card in the MD that is blue and the sideboard isn't strongly blue either. I have decided to test green over blue.

The list I'm running is:

// Lands
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [CS] Snow-Covered Swamp
3 [b] Bayou
3 [R] Scrubland
1 [MOR] Murmuring Bosk
4 [ON] Windswept Heath

// Creatures
3 [SC] Xantid Swarm
4 [FUT] Street Wraith

// Spells
2 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
2 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
3 [WL] Bosium Strip
4 [TO] Cabal Ritual
4 [b] Dark Ritual
4 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
2 [JU] Death Wish
3 [RAV] Shred Memory
3 [PS] Orim's Chant
2 [b] Regrowth

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SC] Xantid Swarm
SB: 1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 1 [PS] Orim's Chant
SB: 4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
SB: 4 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [NE] MassacreThe Regrowth slots are questionable; however, I cannot find anything that can properly replace what Brainstorm did. Any suggestions would be awesome.
I will let you guys know the results from this modification.

EDIT: Oops, I accidently put in Leyline of the Void instead of Massacre... Fixed.

Pinder
01-29-2008, 01:07 AM
The Regrowth slots are questionable; however, I cannot find anything that can properly replace what Brainstorm did. Any suggestions would be awesome.


Mirri's Guile? Of course, you can't really play that from the yard with the Strip, though. I'm not sure you'll find anything with the same utility for the same cost as Brainstorm.

And when did you add Street Wraith? How have those been playing?

Tosh
01-29-2008, 01:21 AM
And when did you add Street Wraith? How have those been playing?
Originally: -1 Duress, -1 Bosium Strip => +2 Street Wraith
This was because I was tired of seeing 2 and sometimes 3 Bosium Strips in one game.
Next: Since I took out Brainstorm, I felt that Street Wraith functioned similar to Brainstorm.

Right now there are several slots that are open to suggestion (and most haven't been tested too much yet):
Xantid Swarm: I reduced the Orim's Chants to 3 and put in 3 Xantid Swarms. Now that I'm playing green and that I've found Duress to not be quite as useful as it should be, this bring the total protection to 6 cards, which is sufficient IMO.
Street Wraith: Seemed like a decent replacement for Brainstorm, but there might be a better one. **I'm looking for a set-up card NOT a draw card. A consideration I had was 3x Top.**
Regrowth: Get some things out from underneath clogs in the 'yard as well as recurring some other important stuff (eg A fetch when you want more land, use an Infernal to set-up and then Regrowth it back to go off, replay a countered/destroyed Xantid, etc)
SB: Tarmogoyf:Could I use a man-plan?

Giles
01-29-2008, 03:17 AM
Something that you might want to add is Night's Whisper. Since it will give you a nice set-up with out clogging up your graveyard.

Today walking in the snow I thought of a intersting idea for BS Combo, I will PM you it.

ssilver
01-29-2008, 01:05 PM
I'm fairly new to combo, so I don't understand things right away even when playtesting combo decks, and I was wondering whether you should mulligan until you have a tutor, or whether there are any non-tutor hands you should keep.

Tosh
01-29-2008, 01:31 PM
I'm fairly new to combo, so I don't understand things right away even when playtesting combo decks, and I was wondering whether you should mulligan until you have a tutor, or whether there are any non-tutor hands you should keep.
First of all, it helps a lot to just try each hand out and see what works and what doesn't. After a while you get the hang of what you can keep and what you should throw away.
So, to address your question:

Shred Memory is a tutor as well, remember that. There are 9 tutors total: 4x Infernal Tutor, 3x Shred Memory, 2x Death Wish. You should be able to have a tutor
IGG + Tendrils in hand can work most of the time.
Statistically speaking, you should have one of the 9 tutors within your opening hand and the top 2 cards of your deck.Later, I will give some sample hands (using my most current decklist) and whether I would keep them or not. Then I will play it out to see which turn it combos off in.

Benie Bederios
02-06-2008, 10:06 AM
Hi,

Not really want to dillute the thread, but this is the decklist I'm using atm. It's probably not better than your list, but maybe it will give some ideas.

// Lands //
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
3 Island
1 Swamp
3 Underground Sea

// Accelaration //
4 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual

// Protection //
4 Duress
2 Thoughtseize
4 Force of Will
1 Wipe Away

// Kill //
2 Tendrils of Agony

// Cantrip & Fixing //
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

//Tutors & Bombs //
4 Mystical Tutor
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Bosium Strip
2 Future Sight

There are some odd choices. First of all Chrome Mox instead of Lotus Petal/Lion's Eye Diamond. In the first deck I didn't play any permanents that went to the graveyard by them self( My manabase was 4 USea, 4 WGrave, 4 URiver and an Island) So that my hole graveyard consisted out of Instants/Sorceries. In Goldfishing this was incredible, but in real testing, it was though that a Wasteland could screw me up. Chrome Mox helps me fix my mana stays around and can be used for storm count. The rest of the mana are instants.

Next to that I have a manabase that is completely imuun to Wasteland. 13 lands, from which are 4 basics is neat. Only 6 fetches to keep my graveyard full with Instants/Sorceries.

As Disruption I chose Discard. The nice thing of discard is that it's black, and cooperate with the Rituals. Next to that they are not dead in the graveyard. If your opponent is holding a FoW and a Stifle, you could use the first discard on his FoW and after you used Bosium Strip( if he hadn't Stifled that one:tongue: ) you can use the discard again to make a free path for Tendrils of Agony.

The Force of Wills are just for testing. I had 4 slots left and played enough blue for FoW so I put them in. It hasn't occured yet, but it might happen that you can't use the Hellbent of Infernal Tutor due to a FoW.

Future Sight is my alt kill. As Bosium Strip is the replacement of Yawgmoth's Will, Future Sight is the replacement of Yawgmoth's Bargain( pretty powerfull dude that Yawgmoth.) It is a great card advantage machine.

As I said before this deck might not be as good as your deck, but I thought I just posted it here for brainstorming....

BB

Cavius The Great
02-13-2008, 11:46 AM
Judging from the original list, How is Murmuring Bosk better than City of Brass? It seems like City of Brass would be the most optimal choice.

And how have fetchlands been treating you? I'd be mighty tempted to make a list with a low land count and a Land Grant based manabase.

I also think Lion's Eye Diamond is a must. LED is just phenomonal with Bosium Strip activations.

And how fast does this deck goldfish? It seems rather slow to rely on a 6 mana spell. I could be wrong though.

Tosh
02-13-2008, 01:44 PM
Judging from the original list, How is Murmuring Bosk better than City of Brass? It seems like City of Brass would be the most optimal choice.
Mainly because it can be fetched.


And how have fetchlands been treating you? I'd be mighty tempted to make a list with a low land count and a Land Grant based manabase.
I've really liked them although after some testing of the green version I think I'm going back to the blue version. It's just more stable and faster.


I also think Lion's Eye Diamond is a must. LED is just phenomonal with Bosium Strip activations.
/agree


And how fast does this deck goldfish? It seems rather slow to rely on a 6 mana spell. I could be wrong though.
See the original post for the goldfishing stats.

I am going to be testing 2x Meditate in there somewhere (figuring out how to make room ATM).


Later, I will give some sample hands (using my most current decklist) and whether I would keep them or not. Then I will play it out to see which turn it combos off in.
I swear I will get to this, I just keep forgetting to write down the hands.

laststepdown
02-25-2008, 04:33 PM
Fetchlands seem like they might break Strip stacks, I'm tempted to try this deck with 4 Land Grant, 4 Bayou, 4 ESG and 4 Chrome Mox instead of 8 Fetches and 8 other lands, probably taking out Chant for Duress. Street Wraith seems like it could mess up Strip stacks as well, but this theory is untested so I'm probably just being picky.

Nihil Credo
02-25-2008, 05:42 PM
Assuming 1) Brainstorm isn't in the list and 2) Getting your Bosium Strip stopped by fetchlands is a real problem, then one could consider building a fetch-less multicolour manabase by just running 4 duals, then up to 4 Ravnica duals, then up to 4 painlands, etc.

The downsides are a slightly increased life loss (although I would guess no more than 1 point/game) and less ability to dodge Wasteland, so you should ponder the implications.

Tosh
02-25-2008, 05:47 PM
<Stuff about the order in the 'yard>
It really isn't a problem most of the time. In most cases, letting a Dark Ritual or whatever get underneath something isn't a problem and most fetches are played before any of the things you want to save or you could hold the fetches and crack them in response to stuff from the graveyard. As long as you plan ahead knowing that you might have to use something again it is pretty easy to play around.
As far as the Land Grant, Bayou, Chrome Mox thing (this is for the green version which I have found to be not as good as the blue version so far) you'd lose Orim's Chant which is very power since Duress is useless when comboing with IGG unless you also plan on playing Leylines. I'm not too sure on the Chrome Mox I haven't tested them but imprinting a card makes me uneasy.

Recently I have cut the Death Wishes. I only wish for IGG or Tendrils so I decided that upping the Tendrils and Mystical Tutor count would just be better (you don't have to lose 1/2 your life). Also, I have been playing Leyline of the Void instead of Abeyance and have cut Ponder completely. So far things seem to be running fine.

EDIT: @Nihil ninja post: Neither Brainstorm nor Ponder are in my blue list (my recommendation at the moment); however, I have yet to lose a game due to something being covered up by a fetchland. The purpose of fetchlands is to thin the deck out so you don't draw into lands; 2-3 lands is all that the deck needs to operate on. So between those things and that fetchlands are mainly played in the early game where there is nothing to cover up there isn't a problem as far as I can tell.

Cavius The Great
02-28-2008, 02:58 PM
It really saddens me that this deck didn't make the finals for the CanG contest. I thought it had potential. :frown: