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morgan_coke
01-14-2008, 09:16 PM
Ok, Slide isn't a new deck anywhere by any means, but it hasn't been played in Legacy like... ever. Rifter was a cycling deck that saw play as an answer to Goblins and Thresh, but it couldn't hang with combo at all. This deck is my first serious attempt to convert Slide to Legacy since as of next year, I won't be able to play it in Extended anymore. In extended, the deck has evolved into essentially a Doran Rock variant, with a slightly slower Doran build compensated for by a significantly stronger mid and lategame, as well as the inclusion of an actual draw engine. That was the first direction I thought to take the deck in Legacy. However, the existence of Intuition made me reconsider a since discarded approach from Extended that utilized Gifts Ungiven. The much, much larger cycling card pool in Legacy helps a lot too.

This is where the deck stands currently as I've just begun testing, focusing on working vs. aggro decks for the moment.

Cycling Cards
1x Radiant's Judgement
1x Expunge
1x Rapid Decay
1x Break Asunder
1x Unearth
1x Decree of Pain
1x Decree of Justice
1x Eternal Dragon
1x Krosan Tusker
1x Renewed Faith
2x Tranquil Thicket
1x Secluded Steppe
1x Barren Moor

Cycling Enchantments
1x Astral Slide

Search
4x Intuition

Recursion
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Life from the Loam
2x Eternal Witness

Removal
3x Swords to Plowshares
1x Vindicate
1x Wasteland

Acceleration
4x Mox Diamond

Discard
3x Thoughtseize

Bullets
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Ghostly Prison

Beats
4x Tarmogoyf
1x Loxodon Hierarch

Lands
4x Windswept Heath
3x Polluted Delta
1x Krosan Verge
1x Tundra
1x Scrubland
1x Savannah
1x Bayou
1x Tropical Island
2x Forest
1x Swamp
1x Plains
1x Island

Sideboard
4x Meddling Mage
1x Rebuild
1x Global Ruin
1x Ghostly Prison
1x Orim's Chant
1x Shriekmaw
1x Extirpate
1x Tranquil Domain
1x Indrik Stomphowler
1x Academy Ruins
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Tormod's Crypt

There are a lot of slots I'm still unsure of. Mox Diamond makes the cut here over Birds of Paradise because you really NEED that mana to stick around and birds just die too damn much. This necessitated a switch from Cabal Therapy to Thoughtseize as the maindeck discard spell. The singleton Ghostly Prison has really done a lot to shore up the Goblins/Aggro matchup. There's a second one in the board to make finding it a bit easier. None of the Threshold lands (Cephalid Coliseum, Nomad Stadium, Cabal Pit, Nantuko Monastery) are in the deck, and I'm not sure that isn't a mistake. The deck plays somewhat similarly to Gifts Rock from current Extended, except that it completely dodges Teeg and can give Chalice a really bad day. You get to run lots of random hate (Rapid Decay, Break Asunder) maindeck solely because it cycles, which is nice.

Resolving Intuition is generally enough card advantage to declare gg if the board state is even remotely close to even, but I'm not positive the early game is up to the point of making that consistent yet. Also, you have no way to search out Intuition except cycling stuff so sometimes that's a bit of a problem. I'm not sure that Vindicate and the Decrees really belong in this deck, some kind of better board sweeper or simply more witness' and unearths may be better there. Krosan Tusker is another slot that might be put to better use doing something else. Break Asunder probably looks odd at first glance, but mostly its there to deal with Counterbalances. Etched Oracle is a card I always look at in decks with 4+ colors, but I don't think he quite fits here. Global Ruin in the board is for other control decks or things like Garden/Stax with tons and tons of non-basics.

The plan against combo is discard, plus teeg, plus mages plus goyf for clock. Against aggro its disruption and spot removal backed up with overwhelming card advantage. Vs control your plan is to out recur them and bury them under over-powered witness interactions.

This is still a very new design and any and all critiques and criticisms on it are heartily welcomed.

Note: Testing vs. various archetypes is in progress and results along with deck modifications will be posted as they occur.

Mental
01-14-2008, 09:33 PM
You run 1 Astral Slide yet you lose is slide doesn't resolve?

from Cairo
01-14-2008, 10:19 PM
There's something to be said for having a toolbox approach, but this seems overkill, with all these one ofs are you goldfishing anything resmembling consistently good opening hands?

I would think you would want a wider base of "good" spells then fill in with a few chosen situational cycling ones. Things that jump out would be adding 3-4 Cabal Therapy, adding the other two Eternal Witnesses, maybe a couple more Krosan Tusker. I would probably work out a better mana base too... Krosan Verge and Tundra for example seem much weaker than additional Savannas or Bayous.

TheLion
01-15-2008, 02:28 PM
Hm, you run 1(!!) card that profits of all the cycle cards (Astral Slide). You should run 3-4. And add Lightning Rift.
Though i like the Unearth/Witness combination with Intuition.

Consider Edge of Autumn (nice with Flagstones) and Street Wraiths!

romain7
02-04-2008, 09:49 PM
Rule of law can stump combo decks and slow down aggro significantly. It wouldn't hurt you as much becuase you will be cycling to achieve affects with astral slide.

romain7
02-04-2008, 10:55 PM
I really don't see astral slide making any impact upon the legacy metagame with the current speed to be honest.

e1567
02-05-2008, 01:14 AM
I'm not so sure this is a very good conversion from extended to Legacy. I have seen some interesting Loam slide decks but I am afraid I have no lists. I agree with TheLion you really need 3-4 slide. If you plan to fetch them with intuition you then probably want 4 eternal witness so that you can consitantly recur your slides and even recur you 1 of cyle cards.

Shtriga
02-05-2008, 07:24 AM
lol 1 slide? that has to be a bad idea mate. run 4 and then some lightning rifts. the intuition engine is cool with the 1 ofs and recursers but this is overdoing it

I tested a slide deck not too long ago in extended, but while it had decent game vs some decks, it had an awful, awful time against combo like the desire deck. seriously, it was impossible to win unless I raced him with tarmogoyfs and other dudes, in which case it would still be impossible because I can't beat turn 3 wins. maybe 4 abeyance and orims chant would help that lol

ssilver
02-05-2008, 01:05 PM
Maybe since you have a hard time with combo, you should go Rule of Law, which looks really good with astral slide, and use enlightened tutor to search for it.

drNoobius
02-22-2008, 08:29 PM
Slide is viable in Legacy :)

I made a slide deck and won some tournaments with it. I used to play Terrageddon, which I made for my teammember Hugo van Dijke who won Dutch Nationals BTW, but got somewhat bored with the deck. So I got back to an old extended favorite of mine, Astral Slide. With the new cards, like Street Wraith and Tarmogoyf, the deck is better then ever, in my opinion.
No red, because Rift does nothing versus Tarmogoyf. Black is better because of Unearth and gives acces to Thoughtseize in the board.

This is my current (tested) list:

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Street wraith
4 Eternal Witness
3 Loxodon Hierarch
4 Sword To Plowshares
3 Edge Of Autumn
3 Vindicate
3 Astral Slide
4 Unearth
3 Life From The Loam

3 Savannah
2 Bayou
4 Windswept Heath
3 Forest
2 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Secluded Steppes
4 Tranquil Thicket
2 Nantuko Monastery

sb

2 Gaddock teeg
4 Thoughtseize
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Shriekmaw
2 Krosan Grip

It's very good, the free cyclers make a big difference compared to the regular slide deck. They want to swords my Goyf, i slide it out.. even when i'm outtapped.
Unearth is the most versatile card in your deck, it cycles for (2) , and it brings back Witness or Goyf. And Witness can get a STP, so Unearth could be considered STP 5-8.

The SB:

-Teeg and Thoughtseize vs. Storm decks or Control decks
- LotV vs. Graveyard decks
- Shriekmaw vs. gobbo or ********
- Grips, well... vs. artifacts/enchantments

Nullrods or Wrath of God's are also options for the sb.. depends on the meta..

Well it is a pretty good deck, very resilient, good vs aggro, and has a really good lategame...

Enjoy :D

alebronwebb
02-23-2008, 12:06 AM
I really like this GWb deck, it looks very strong. I might have to throw it together. The only thing I can say is there probably should be +1 Slide, but I wouldn't even know what to cut so I'm not touching it right now.

Any chance for any match-ups reports?

EDIT: Welcome to The Source.

Metaknight
02-23-2008, 03:00 AM
A straight G/W list looks something like this:

land//
4x Savannah
4x windswept Heath
4x plains
4x Forest
4x tranquil thicket
4xsecluded step

Creatures//
4x Eternal Witnesses
4x Loxodon Hierarch
4x Eternal Dragon
1x Genesis

spells//
4x swords to plowshare
4x Astral Slide
4x Renewed Faith
3x Life from the Loam
3x Gilded light
2x solitary confinement
2x Wrath of god
2x Orim's Chant

SB//
2x Orim's Chant
2x Sphere of resistance
3x Rule of law
4x Tormod's Crypt
4x Krosan Grip

thats what i've taken to the tourny that i go to and it has done quite well. Dropping black you lose some things, but you gain more stability in the land base. If i were to rebuild the deck, i would Def add black to it, but just for a reference, this is what 2 color, competitive, legacy slide looks like.

Mordenkaynen
02-23-2008, 03:19 AM
Sorry for a stupid form of question, but why I don't see anything about hoofprints? This card looks very likely for slide as a 'cycling' deck.

drNoobius
02-23-2008, 05:49 PM
I did not take notes during the tournaments i played... too busy cycling :tongue: , but I will take the deck to the next tournament, and this time I WILL take notes. The deck is indeed very strong, and except the Tarmogoyfs, not that expensive...

(to alebronwebb:) 3 slides is al you need. Because of the Unearths you can a dredged Slide from the grave with Witness... and Unearth acts kinda like Slide 4-7... it's that versatile


Oh thx for the welcome :)

Metaknight
02-23-2008, 06:31 PM
Sorry for a stupid form of question, but why I don't see anything about hoofprints? This card looks very likely for slide as a 'cycling' deck.

At first glance, yes, i would agree with you that Hoofprints of the Stag would be great in the deck. The problem arises in testing. Thats when you realize as I have that it doesn't actually contribute that much. Once you get loam in the yard you're going to be replacing almost all your draws anyway, and plus it has to be activated on your turn. If you could make the elementals at anytime, then it would be great. but during your turn you want to keep mana open to do things at end of turn, or for fun combat tricks, or anything else that might arise. Trust me, its just not as good as it seems.

Shtriga
02-23-2008, 07:08 PM
I have played with a very similar GW (Metaknight's) deck a couple of times in MWS. by chance, I got paired with a storm combo deck, and then belcher. and let me tell you, it doesn't have one chance in hell of winning if you don't draw an orim's chant (and that chance will be 0 if you don't even run them)

but, the spheres of resistance from SB will help a lot I'm sure, as well as packing 4 chants, would like to have the chance to test that

Aggro_zombies
02-23-2008, 07:18 PM
I have played with a very similar GW deck a couple of times in MWS. by chance, I got paired with a storm combo deck. and let me tell you, it doesn't have one chance in hell of winning. other than orim's chant, you have 0 way to disrupt their game. but the spheres of resistance from SB will help a lot I'm sure, as well as packing 4 chants
They help but not enough. Really, if you were playing straight :g::w: and wanted to reliably beat combo, you'd need to run 4 Chant, 4 Rule of Law, 4 Abeyance, 4 Sphere of Resistance, and 4 Gaddock Teeg. Even then it's questionable since you have no consistent way to stop Ichorid or Belcher from winning on turn one, or to keep TES from Chanting you, then casting Burning Wish for bounce on your RoL/Teeg.

Selesnya-color Slide decks are strictly inferior in this format to Slide decks that splash. The two most obvious colors to splash for are red or black, although I'm sure someone could make the case for blue. I've had quite a bit of success with the latter of the two splashes and submitted my deck as "Diglett.dec" for this contest, if you're interested.

And yes, Hoofprints is good in theory, but it tests poorly. It's not that you replace your draws (you still cycle your lands), but that you have to pay :2::w: on your own turn to make a token. I would much rather use the mana for disruption, or leave it open for cycling.

As for morgan_coke's deck, there's nothing I can say that hasn't already been said. It looks atrocious, even by Slide standards.